Trouble in Elfville
by Alphaville Herald on 04/08/07 at 7:19 pm
Girl elf leader turns male — leader’s ex-partner banned for complaining
by BB Balderdash, Elf Affairs desk
When Armandi Goodliffe was a girl, she partnered with Camo Camus
When you think the land of the elves, you think of peaceful and quiet hills and dales, where pixie and faeries dance and the elven make their crafts and socialize. That’s the picture that members of Second Life’s Elf Circle paint when they speak about their group and their lands. The Elf Circle exists in a group of PG sims removed from strip clubs and dance halls. A place where people can live out elven and other fantasy role play, without drama. But lately there has been a seedier and more controversial side to the group and what’s happening there. A member has been banned for speaking his mind about free speech. And a member of the elves’ leadership group spent a year playing cross gender and getting involved with another group member – partnering and cybering with him, creating a scandal, drama and another banning – not of the perpetrator but of the victim.
The Elf Circle group just celebrated its first year anniversary. The group is now made up of over 800 members and consists of a core of 6 sims (and 8 ocean sims) all owned by the group’s leader or queen; Forcythia Wishbringer. There are about a dozen or more affiliated sims nearby. But even the way this group began was not drama-free. Forcythia was originally one of the leaders in another elf group, the Elf Clan. When she was expelled from the group over a dispute with the Elf Clan’s founder, the new group was formed.
Members who were willing to be interviewed (some were not) said they had come to the group because of the friendly people who were welcoming. The Circle holds impromptu drum and dance circles and planned events, such as balls and building contests, and they had a presence at the recent Relay for Life. Forcythia Wishbringer says her goal in forming Elf Circle was: “to have a land of peace, and the mainland does not have much peace. I also wished to have people around who wanted and valued the same things I did: peacefulness, talking with others, getting to know others, and creativity.”
Perhaps to expect any group with multiple members to be peaceful all the time is unrealistic, but the peace of the Circle was shattered according to some, when one of the founding members, Armandi Goodliffe, revealed after a year she was a he, and changed genders in Second Life. This is not an unusual event in virtual communities. But what was unusual here is that Goodliffe was one of the leaders of the Elf Circle and had been partnered to another member of the circle, Camo Camus. There’s had been a very public relationship, including an engagement party, wedding and reception attended by many members of the Elf Circle. They eventually split, but when Goodliffe went through the gender switch, Camus was upset. “What was stunning to me was the lack of regard for what had been done to me,” says Camus. “There was never even the slightest consideration of whether Armandi should continue on the High Council or as officer in the Elf Guard,” according to Camus. He goes on; “When I asked Forcythia about it she could only say it was a private matter between Armandi and I, and then others on the High Council were being similarly deceitful, so her hands were tied.”
Forcythia Wishbringer: no comment
When asked about the incident Forcythia Wishbringer refused to comment. Camus says he was eventually banned from elf lands because he refused to stop speaking about what Goodliffe had done to him and whether Goodliffe should remain in a leadership role.
In an interview with Goodliffe he admits he lived in Second Life as a female and then switched to being male and “it is not untruthful that Camo was hurt and that while that might not have been my intention, it did happen.” But Goodliffe also says what he did not effect his ability to serve the Elf Circle. Camus disagrees: “He lied to me in every possible way for over a year, in public and in private, what does this say about whether trust should be placed in him and his judgement?”
Forcythia Wishbringer hand picks members of the high council, the Elf Circle’s leadership group, “I picked the people on high council for their assistance, their thoughts, their work towards making these lands cohesive.” Speaking with the agreement of anonymity one high council member said: “It was generally felt what Armandi had done was a private matter, and while very destructive toward one person, did not effect his performance in Elf Circle matters.” Another circle member, Emiko Odets strongly disagrees: “Armandi Goodliffe is a predator by almost any definition, and by allowing him to stay on the high council, Forcythia and the high council members are endorsing his reprehensible behavior, and de facto endorsing predatory acts by elf members.” Camus eventually quit the group when “it became clear to me Forcythia was more concerned about building an empire than with the harm done to individuals.”
Heed Lobo: there is no free speech in the elf lands
A more recent case involves another long-time Elf Circle member, Heed Lobo. “I got in trouble initially for trying to talk to people about whether Armandi belonged on the High Council,” says Lobo. “But when I was censored, I realized there was larger issue, that was there is no free speech in the elf lands.” This raises an interesting question, which is, is there anything like free speech in a world where land is all privately held and land owners can ban you if they don’t like what you say? Lobo says: “I get the fact that the elf lands are privately held, but the Elf Circle is also a community, and in communities, free speech and open discussion are essential.” But is a high fantasy sim the best place for political debate? Several Elf Circle members said emphatically no, including Darkelf Torok, who told me about an incident he was involved in: “we where having a party here at the drum circle and some free speech member arrived…everybody was partying and having fun till then…he stood right beside the drum circle…in his bling bling outfit..with sunglasses…he started to say things in public…and later IM’s which where not so nice for a party…a lot of elves didn’t like it.” Torok expressed the sentiment of several elves to whom I spoke; “give me nice elfs…a drum circle…and dances…and I’m happy.”
Meanwhile Lobo says he is willing to apologize to any elf members he offended along the way, but he says Forcythia Wishbringer banned him without the chance to defend himself or his actions in any kind of hearing. “I think what particularly made her mad was the fact I formed a group called the Free and Open Elf Discussion Group and then tried to invite an ACLU lawyer to the lands to have a discussion of free speech rights. “Right after that, I was banned,” Lobo explained. Again Forcythia refused comment on the specific case, but did say generally; “Frankly, people say what they wish, unless they are disrupting others.” She went on to say people were not banned haphazardly and “I will draw a line and will protect the environment here to protect the rights of the majority to relax and enjoy.”
Others in the Circle I spoke with, though, raised concerns about visitors to the lands being banned without any kind of hearing. Elf Circle member Paix Chamber says she had a friend banned who was visiting her home in the elf sims, it helped her decide not to continue to lease land in the elf sims; “I love the elven lands, but I won’t live there while they ban my friends.” Wishbringer would not reveal how many people have been banned from the elf sims, only that there is a set of procedures followed before banning someone.
Peace and no drama among any group of over 800 is hard to imagine. Even though Heed Lobo remains banned, he has no regrets; “M. Esther Harding wrote that ‘conflict is the beginning of consciousness,’ so maybe in me being banned someone in Elf Circle will raise questions about who can speak and who can’t, and whether Forcythia and other leaders should be more open with people about what goes on behind the scenes and in decision-making in the group.” Maybe. Or maybe they’ll just play drums and dance. Forcythia Wishbringer says more expansion is planned and her group continues to grow, her kingdom expanding, evidence that things are going well. Camo Camus wants nothing to do with Elf Circle again and regrets the time he spent there. Armandi Goodliffe remains on the High Elf Circle, for now a man.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 4th, 2007
I wonder, did Camus ever think to ask for a photograph? Did they ever worry about RL details, and ask about each other’s RL? If they never discussed RL, then isn’t Armandi’s transgression one of omittance, rather than dishonesty? I mean, I don’t publicize too frequently my RL gender which, depending on my mood, may or may not be my avatar’s gender, but I have eventually answered most all inquiries honestly, though few people have ever asked.
tp
Aug 5th, 2007
Hearing about these poor sociopath schmucks that get suckered into cyber relationships in SL with no hint of doubt just makes me laugh. There should be a training course for all men to avoid homofags in SL because it seems like the majority of them come from some sheltered America Online net existence and expect it to be any different.
GET PHONE CONFIRMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nough said.
And this was a year in the making, I smell bullshit.
pavig lok
Aug 5th, 2007
Erm… y’ don’t have to exchange pics etc, but discussing ome rl details before you marry someone is just good form. There nothing stopping wierd arrangements fromworking in sl, but omitting something as basic as your rl sex from your spouse is asking for trouble ;p
Mineral Writer
Aug 5th, 2007
I agree with Nikola to be honest. Unless they made the effort to find out about eachother’s actual lives then Camus has no one to blame but himself. I can say truthfully that I’m a bloke and I play a female avatar, and I nearly ALWAYS make sure new people that I meet know this. That and the fact that I see relationships of this kind in Second Life as something weird and unecessary and potentially overstimulating for what is essentially a computer game.
Ownage Emmons
Aug 5th, 2007
At least now with Voice you can tell people’s voices, and in turn their gender.
JayR Cela
Aug 5th, 2007
Hmmm , cross gender role play is quite common in SL as well with other RPG’s. I am male in RL and my SL Avatar is female/ has been since day 1 / I have been with the same partner here in SL since day 2 ( allmost 2 years now )Most everyone that knows me also accepts the fact I choose to have a female Avatar represent me here in SL. However every now and then I run into some Homophobic Lunatic that will just flip out and go over the deep end on this issue. But it is important to remember that regardless of the Avatar’s outward apperance the person behind the AVI is still the same. If Armandi deceived Camo for over a year, then I think it is safe to assume that his RL persona is deceitful as well. Perhaps the Advent of voice coming to SL and the lack of a Voice Cloaking mechanism being built into the client prompted his decision to switch to his true RL gender here. I would not be surprised if we see a lot more of this during the coming months. I will say this much Camo has every right to feel that he has been used. However to spread a smear campaign was a poor decision on his part. Better to just live and learn
JayR Cela
Nacon
Aug 5th, 2007
Well that’s pretty fucked up.
And no… using voice in SL doesn’t always means true, there’s a free bloody speech changer that can work with SL.
Either call on a REAL cell/phone or pay them a visit. …but come on, how can you fuck up that bad? Bloody elves.
anon
Aug 5th, 2007
Just another instance of how idiotic people are in SL. There are no real marriages, nothing in SL is real and you can be what you like. Female, male, a robot, a dragon, etc…
These articles are just stupid IMO, just like the posts above stating you should ask for real life information before getting married in SL.
For one, you are not really getting married in SL, and for two, no one should be giving out real life information for any reason if their decision was to not do so.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to give out real life information in SL. Only nut jobs without a real life would say otherwise.
As far as dishonesty goes, one could argue that there is no way to be dishonest in SL by being another gender simply because that is what SL was designed for. Cyber is just that.. Cyber. It’s not real or physical and there are always those idiots wanting to believe it is.
Personally, if your doing the cyber thing in SL and you are a male, you have a pretty good chance that your sweetheart girlfriend is a male as well in RL not that it counts in any way shape or form. There is no real anything in SL besides those people being what they want to be behind their screen. They have as much right to be what they want in SL as you do. And maybe their goal is to be a “Not so good” person in SL. Well, that is their choice. Maybe they are real good people in real life and their desire is to not be so upright in SL. If that is the case, that is their choice and it’s their virtual world and imagination.
All this honest vs. not honest, even mentioning asking someone for their personal information and having any mind set that you are entitled to it because you are walking down a virtual isle, getting virtual married, is well… just stupid.
Erestor S
Aug 5th, 2007
Well well… I might be banned from the Elf Circle for saying this, but it may be worth it..
I agree with Heed Lobo on that the roof is quite low for open discussion and true free speech in the “circle’s” lands. But then you have use a civil tone and respect that people around does not want to listen to you….
The two incidents that are reported here is making me get a bad feeling in my guts. The methods that appears being used by Elf Circle’s management is having ugly tones from many non-democratic governments in the Real World…
But then again it might just be the American way of showin who is the boss…..
As I said.. Now I might be banned but I do not care and if so I will not remain silent about it…
HR
Aug 5th, 2007
He didn’t get the response he was going for and just keeps going to larger and larger audiences in a failing attempt to get it. I’m really sick of the “We love you Armandi” weeks out here in the elf lands whenever Camo pulls a new stunt to get attention.
JayR Cela
Aug 5th, 2007
Anon
1 or 2 years ago I would have agreed with you about the fact that SL is an RPG. however in recent months with all the publicity and the rush towards adding voice to the SL Client, the games seems to have degenerated into a social gathering place for lovesick people and a hopelessly flawed attempt to allow large corporate entities to hold Video Conferencing / which is really insane, SL was designed as a Fantasy MMRPG. But on the other hand, it is natural for everything to progress, weather that be forward or backwards, motion in the MetaVerse is constant. SL will continue to evolve, people will come and go, nothing ever stays the same forever. As far as name calling people Idiots for being foolish, I think that is uncalled for. Not everyone has a full understanding about what an RPG actually is. Lighten up and forget about it. :_)
JayR Cela
Bobby Troughton
Aug 5th, 2007
From this article it does seem he was banned for being harrassing. He was understably disgruntled & pressing the issue to get his ex-love knocked out of leadership. Not to mention he was messing with everyone’s Happy Fun environment daring to complain about something. But what does that leadership do that demands such integrity he wants anyway? Hold dancing & drumming circles? Or do they actually run some elf government?
I’m sure there’s few groups that do have true full “free speech”. Everyone has their rules and limits to the amount of stuff they want to listen to.
Ownage Emmons
Aug 5th, 2007
How would you know about this voice changer? Do you actively seek ways of making yourself something you’re not?
anon
Aug 5th, 2007
“Anon
1 or 2 years ago I would have agreed with you about the fact that SL is an RPG. however in recent months with all the publicity and the rush towards adding voice to the SL Client, the games seems to have degenerated into a social gathering place for lovesick people and a hopelessly flawed attempt to allow large corporate entities to hold Video Conferencing / which is really insane, SL was designed as a Fantasy MMRPG.”
Nothing has changed in SL. Adding voice did nothing to change what SL is.
It’s a Metaverse with voice capability. A 3D chatroom. Nothing more nothing less. Unless you of course build and create content/scripting as I do. Then it’s more of a 3D modeling platform. Nevertheless, nothing has
changed.
“But on the other hand, it is natural for everything to progress, weather that be forward or backwards, motion in the MetaVerse is constant. SL will continue to evolve, people will come and go, nothing ever stays the same forever. As far as name calling people Idiots for being foolish, I think that is uncalled for. Not everyone has a full understanding about what an RPG actually is. Lighten up and forget about it. :_)
JayR Cela”
This has nothing at all to do with what I wrote. The SL Metaverse has not changed in terms of what it is. It’s a 3D chat room with added voice capability for most. SL hasn’t transformed into anything that it already wasn’t. And it sure hasn’t changed in any ways that makes virtual reality any less than not_at_all_real.
What is it you do not understand? Maybe you should re-read what I wrote.
“SL was designed as a Fantasy MMRPG.”
Not according to Linden Labs. You need to review what your saying before you post.
Mytwo Cents
Aug 5th, 2007
Oh great, tranny elfes. Another innocent childhood dream down the drain …
But seriously, it seems that marrying somebody you don’t really know does not seem to be such a great idea in any life. Nevertheless, despite him being naive or stupid I feel pity for Camo. Avatars play roles, but the emotion happens inside the human player on the keyboard. Be who- or whatever you want in SL but if you make somebody feel RL-like love for you then it is simply immoral not to inform that person about your real gender, pointy ears or not. Just my 2c.
@Ownage: “Making yourself something you’re not” is one of the major reasons why people find SL so fascinating. What is the point in being in SL when you act, look, talk and do everything like in RL? Dating cartoon characters? What a sad way to spend your time.
@Nacon: I don’t think this “free bloody speech changer” tool actually exists – and if does, it makes you probably sound like a robot (well, at least one special group of rp will benefit from voice …). LL said they originally wanted to implement the option to change your voice but were not able to find any tool that could deliver the quality needed.
Nacon
Aug 5th, 2007
MyTwo Cents said: “I don’t think this “free bloody speech changer” tool actually exists”
sure does… not only a robot but man to woman, and woman to man effect. A bonus, more fantasy voice crap like elves are in them.
Go look it up.
http://www.screamingbee.com/News/VoiceMorphinginSecondLife6222007_65.aspx
Dracus
Aug 5th, 2007
OMG!! Get a life camo! CyberSex is lame in SL but complaining that you fuked a guy and living to tell it, PRICELESS!!! ROFLSMAO!!
Comedy Silver
Aug 5th, 2007
“I think what particularly made her mad was the fact I formed a group called the Free and Open Elf Discussion Group and then tried to invite an ACLU lawyer to the lands to have a discussion of free speech rights.”
Gee.. ya think? Someone is trying to run an immersive fantasy role-play environment and you’re trying to bring in fucking lawyers? Now that you’re banned from there and have plenty of free time, why not try to schedule a Womens’ Rights speaker to go visit some Gorean sims?
Someone
Aug 5th, 2007
I noticed that the reason Paix’s friend was banned was not mentioned. Paix’s friend was banned for going on a bombing run,he claimed it was accidental and was given a chance to appeal his ban and didn’t accept it and also can no longer be found in the SL Search roster.
Thank you for listening
Liam Candour
Aug 6th, 2007
First, i would like to point out a few things i noticed about this Article.
Obviously, this article was written by someone who has a grudge against Elf Circle. Nevermind the complete Bias or the heavy editing of comments to make everything said in any interview seem like it’s seedy and underhanded. This article is really nothing more than an attempt to cause drama in Elf Circle. Drama is not something Elf Circle tolerates, which is why many of the bans described in this article are completely justified. As someone who manages and operates a sim, I would have happily given these people the same courteous banhammer to the face that they recieved in Elf Circle. The fact of the matter is this: These people were banned for trying to cause Drama in what Elf Circle tries to make a Drama-free environment for all. Elf Circle Guardians dont ban folks because they dont like the color of their hair. If you get banned from Elf Circle, you comitted a Bannable offense, as listed in… you guessed it. The Rules of the Sim.
As for the ACLU lawyer? Yes, that would certainly incur the wrath of many Sim owners, myself included. First and Foremost, this is Second Life. This is NOT the United States of America, where free speech is guaranteed by the Constitution. In Second Life, if you want to stay in a Sim, you have to follow the rules put forth by that sim. Simple as that. Bringing someone like an ACLU lawyer into a sim is certainly the easiest and fastest way to earn yourself a Banhammer.
As for Armandi, things like this happen every single day, both in RL and in SL. I am not defending what happened, nor am i condemning it. It is something that the parties involved need to deal with themselves, and come to terms with. It’s not something for the whole of SL to hop on the bandwagon and start some huge Dramafest about it, which is exactly what the author of this article is trying to do. Frankly folks, This is none of our business, and this article should have never passed the Editorial process.
-Liam Candour
File Surface
Aug 6th, 2007
Oh indeed… such miraclulous notions as ‘man’ assocciated with an upset relation….let’s not forget about the simple basic rules and conditions that any person who agrees to come to the lands must follow.
There is the simple no harrassment one, or the please stick to the theme one, or even the discuss matters privately with those involved one. Those folks who are guests may not know them all…though walking through the market will get them a notecard with such clearly listed… but those who are long time members, such as one who is in a relationship, if not perfectly, at least in essence know.
Beyond that, there is the complete capacity in any individual to acquire such rules…and the listed penalties and consequences of violating them.
Let’s face 3 important things here: 1, these are private lands with a theme and defined authorities. 2, these rules and authorities are in no way obligated to serve the musings and whining of those who do not respect those rules. And 3, in the charter, as well as any such direct non RP chat, the world, including the text, names, images, sounds, and the like ARE NOT REAL.
There are inevitably situations that arise in such environments. People are not banned for ‘oops’ situations…even weapon use or violations of speech or scripts (like cussing, defensive tools, mistypes, or misdirected IMs). People are banned for continued or directed, intentional violations. They are banned after being warned or after they should, as a customary normal, ‘everyman’ have known. Such things as forgeting you have a pistol in your hand is not grounds for banning….such things as using that pistol with an orbit script to launch 45 members to 50,000 m is…as is running around with an 8 meter phalic object wiggling from your crotch and chasing people.
Other such things can be as blatant as continuing for months on end, to interupt, condescend, disturb, ruin, and otherwise befoul the enjoyment of others environments. It may not be problematic to say “hey…I don’t think that was right…did you ask so-and-so”….but it is problematic to go around doing it, berating and fouling the names of those who have authority in their own lands. It is further an offense to instigate such behavior in others. It is further an issue to demean and erode the purpose of the privately owned and operated lands of another which are shared, without request of gifts, payment, or duty simply because they fail to bend to your will in an issue in which they have the right and authority.
Sadly, this means people ocassionally get banned for unusual reasons. It also means that the vast majority of those who are banned have been banned for a reason.
Oh…and let’s not be unbiased in a news report eh? Fact of the matter is, Forcythia OWNS the sims. She has control and right to their use. The fact that she even has a ruling council should be applauded. Beyond that, mixing a personal choice or matter with a position is simply foolish. The realm is an RP…pardon, ROLE PLAY, realm….the people are there of their own accord to suspend reality…to take on, by definition, a role OTHER than that of their real life.
Should one take such a ROLE PLAY as a statement of reality, that is their own choice and foible. As such, well…I have over 3,000 dollars in Second Life…I doubt the clerk at the local 7-11 would let me buy a coke with it.
RodneyLee
Aug 6th, 2007
Imagine this, Guy come into Sl, cheats on his RL wife with Sl lady, come into game does her then leaves, for nearly a year, sl ladys turns out to be a guy, LOL, what is anyone really a Polygon, Man feels bad, homophobia what ever, wonder how his RL wife would feel if she knew? ok so his feeling were hurt maybe felt betrayed, gee its over and done with
but no I want revenge and I’ll get peopel on my side to feel srry for me… NOT
as for free speech, soon as you force it on me you become worse than those your attacking
with your mightier than thou mouth…
Number 1 rule, NO DRAMA, one person may have lit the match, its those who continue to throw wood on the fire that get burnt the worst.
Faerie
Aug 6th, 2007
I think Forcythia was perfectly within her rights *and* acted correctly.
Elf Circle exists for a purpose – a purpose Forcythia decided on and made public. She owns the land and pays the bills to the Lindens. Either you fit in with that purpose or you go somewhere else – pretty simple really.
Why does every disgruntled American always start bleating about the alleged* “Right of Free Speech” as soon as they aren’t happy?
I suggest you actually look around your RL American laws and see just how little* “Right of Free Speech” you actually have before you come into a privately owned fantasy world and start sprouting the same rubbish!
* (Don’t know what I’m talking about? Here’s some clues to get you started: Libel, slander, sedition, government secrets, commercial secrets, copyright, racial vilification, promotion of terrorism/pedophia/etc, religious intolerance, the list goes on a lonnnnnng way. You only have the right to say what your Governments allow you to say).
Xylo Hasp
Aug 6th, 2007
I’ve known Armandi since he began SL, as a close friend and I mentored him (her back then) from his first days in world. The one thing I could never swallow about the whole thing was his complete lack of regard for other people, especially Camo, in this whole thing. When telling me about his gender switch Armandi said to me – “you’re going to laugh your ass off when you hear this.” I didn’t laugh then and I’m still not laughing.
As one whom himself spent some time early on victimizing some people in SL though multiple relationships etc. I can say that even in my darkest days, I never had the thought that the people I had lied to deserved what they got. In the end I tried to apologize to each and make whatever amends I could for my idiotic behavior.
In this case the lack of remorse is quite telling, and an indication of a very intentional and calculated act from a person who tells lies so easily, one wonders about their ability to discern truth from complete fabrication.
To me the measure of what’s right and wrong in this case, or in other, isn’t what was or wasn’t this a violation of LL policy, but was or wasn’t it the right way to treat another human being?
The elf lands are RP, but even in RP, there are real people involved. It would have been simple for Armandi to indicate, for instance, in his profile he was role playing cross-gender, the fact that he didn’t to me is quite telling.
Even now he postures himself into the role of victim, when in fact he instigated the entire matter willfully and deliberately.
HR
Aug 6th, 2007
The reason you see it that way, Xylo, is that he didn’t accept being the target of a witch hunt. He never said, “Oh, this is all fine.” He said that he wronged Camo. However, Camo wanted his pound of flesh and the flesh of anyone who didn’t agree to his demands seems to have been acceptable.
a.j.
Aug 6th, 2007
in general,
would you please accept that the elven realms are made to live a life that you partually cant live in rl and roleplaying is a part of it?
would you please acknowledge that there’s a lady (forcy) who – besides working in rl – spends the most of her time working really hard, dealing with more than 800 ppl, to keep this up? that she’s taking responsability of a vast amount of lease for ppl she even might not know to give them a chance to live thier fantasies and gather in a land of peace?
would you please realize, that “no drama” means if you have a conflict with someone you might wanna act it out in IM’s and not bother the ones who are not involved anyways?
and would you please accept that sl is a mirror of what YOU are looking for, and what YOU do with it? and therfore the relations/friendships you raise with others are YOUR buisiness and not the one of the queen and her council? neither of the whole circle?
so would you please understand that we simply wanna share a good time in a playground like the elven relams – even if you feel thats rather shepardly – and that this kind of politics is not of any interest to us?
so if you are able to understand this, im sure youre welcome to these lands as long as you keep this usually peacefull environment peacefull and free of your personal complaints.
not all of us agree with all of the decisions made by the queen of the elves and her coucil.
but be sure, there must be a reason why as many ppl are part of the elf-circle. and us elves, we stand for these reasons, and lots of them are spending much money and time for it.
and if you dont agree to this, you are free to play in other sims. quiet simple, isnt it?
humanoid
Aug 7th, 2007
I’ve had unpleasant run-ins with elf avatars in the past. As is evident in the article and many of these comments, they do tend to be control freaks with absolutely no regard for others, or any sense of tact. It’s not the kind of thing one expects from people who tend to give off an air of tolerance.
I’m not sure why, but it seems to be a common trait among medieval/fantasy type roleplayers. I suspect a lot of them get involved with themed sims just so they can control other people. Online gaming gives them a way to manipulate others in a way offline gaming can’t. Without the internet they’d be a bunch of lone-wolf assholes brooding in their mom’s basement.
Kami Harbinger
Aug 7th, 2007
What the 13-year-old “SL ISN’T REAL” idiots don’t and can’t get is that SL, like every social space on the Internet, is real – there are real people on the other side, and they have real feelings. Unlike 13-year-olds, who are essentially sociopaths. Don’t waste your time debating this with them, they’re just animals, not people yet.
But very clearly, every side in this has done wrong.
So, sure, finding out you had a marriage ceremony with someone who was a guy can be traumatizing… But it was Camo’s responsibility to find out who he was with. If he didn’t take the time to find out, he deserves what he gets.
SL is hosted in the U.S., and the Constitutional right to freedom of speech applies in all public spaces. If you’re on someone else’s private property, they can kick you out or censor you as they wish, but there’s a grey area between the two extremes. Whether the Elf Circle is public or private property may be a matter of some dispute. It’s technically owned by someone, but describing it as “open to all” and permitting public use can make it public property. You have very strong protections on freedom of speech in even semi-public places. A very clear covenant describing what’s allowed and disallowed, and preferably some kind of contract with signature, would be the only real way of enforcing it as “private property”.
Getting upset because the ACLU is there is a sure sign that the owners of Elf Circle know they’re doing something wrong and want to cover it up.
Victorria Paine
Aug 7th, 2007
It isn’t “public space” — it’s *all* private space because it takes place on LL’s servers, which are private. Arguments to the contrary notwithstanding, it’s well-settled that activity taking place on privately-owned servers is taking place in *private* space.
Beyond that, it always amazes me that people are amazed that these things happen. I mean it does seem like the person in question was rather callous about the whole thing, but to be honest if you get deeply involved with someone you meet in SL to the point where your material-world feelings are engaged significantly, and you don’t do some due diligence as to who they are in the material-world, to then later get upset that the person is not who you *thought* they were in the material-world seems quite pointless and silly to me.
There are two options, it seems to me, in terms of SL relationships.
The first option is to take the virtual world at face value, and do not look behind it — in other words, to give yourself to the virtual world in the context of your AV and accept the fellowship (and even love and partnering) of others in the context of their AV — your love for them is still “real”, but it’s constrained, by mutual consent, to the limitations of SL, and the only relevant parameters for making the relationship work or not are those that exist *inside* SL. If you do this, the material world gender and other information about your love is really irrlevant.
The second option is to pierce the veil through to the material world, such that two people are essentially having a material-world love affair, simply using SL and their avatars as a graphically-enhanced means of communicating with each other and playing out their material-world love, as they may be separated by large distances for example. In this case, of course, it’s very important to know the material-world details of the person you are involved with (and it’s your responsibility to get those) because SL is being used not as a reality in itself, but as a communications tool. In that context, where people are having what is clearly a relationship between two material world persons, then it is surely deceitful for someone to misrepresent themselves — but it’s also the responsibility of both parties to do their homework on the other person to some degree, as they would in any other material-world relationship where they happened to meet the person in the material world outside of SL.
The problem comes, of course, when people “kind of do both” (which you can’t really do) or are “not on the same page”, meaning that one person sees it as a material-world relationship using a communications medium, while the other sees it as something that is constrained to their SL persona. These can be avoided by good communication at the early stages in many cases. In cases where someone is deliberately out to deceive, it can be harder to judge, but really if you are viewing it as a material life relationship (such that the characteristics of the person in material life — beyond what their AV says and does in SL — are important to you), then you bear the responsibility to make sure they are who they say they are in the material world. To me, the situation described in the article seems to have been the worst of all scenarios: someone who was out to deceive someone else being partnered with someone for whom material-world information was critically important. Obviously, I’m not playing cheerleader for the deceiver, but the other person ought to have done more homework before getting wrapped up with his material world feelings such that his partner’s material world gender really mattered to him.
Buretin Peart
Aug 7th, 2007
First off, I just want to say that I have no affiliation with the Elf Circle, Elves, or any of the people involved. However, I support their decision to toss these people out, and would like to take a moment to respond to some of the comments that Kami just made:
“Whether the Elf Circle is public or private property may be a matter of some dispute. It’s technically owned by someone, but describing it as “open to all” and permitting public use can make it public property.”
No, I don’t see this at all. A movie theater is private property, but they open it up to the public. However, if you are going to talk during the movie and ruin the experience for everyone else, that movie theater has every right to throw you out on your ass. As well, these places are not “open to all”. They are open to people whom they want there and will agree to follow their rules. Much like a theater requires people to wear shirts, shoes, and shut the hell up during movies, the Elves require people to avoid drama and adhere to their roleplaying guidelines.
“Getting upset because the ACLU is there is a sure sign that the owners of Elf Circle know they’re doing something wrong and want to cover it up.”
Whoever the group is, I feel that it has no bearing on their decision whatsoever. What matters that the ACLU is a real-life organization that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the Elf Circle’s roleplay environment. Elf Circle has worked hard to establish and perpetuate a roleplaying environment, and now someone is trying to introduce external real-life elements into their private society. They have no obligation whatsoever to cater to people that they don’t want there whom will interfere with their roleplaying experience.
Errant Thymes
Aug 13th, 2007
LOL this article is hilarious. First off, for the Elf Circle worshippers, no there’s nothing in this article that even hints the author has anything against the group. Looks like good reporting to me. But LOL we have Forcythia banning people for speaking their minds and bucking the authority. From what I’ve read, she’s top of the list in that group. She turned against her ex-parner in Elf Clan and from what everyone says no, didn’t just disagree with the Elf King but ripped off the whole group. Now Elf Cirle has problems? Awww poor babies! LOL. Now Elf Clan is back and guess which group I’m gonna hang with? Just guess. LOL. Elf Cirle gave elves a bad reputation. They’ve been nothing but drama queens and rude and unfriendly since they opened the group. So no tears from me that they’re having internal problems. Boo hoo.
Celty Westwick
Aug 15th, 2007
Actually the author was being less than candid in telling the full story of Forcythia and Elf Circle. It was founded by Forcythia absconding the funds of Elf Clan as well as lands. She was an officer of Elf Clan, who was intrusted and unfortunately betrayed that trust.
The details of this are chronicled accurately on the history written on the Elf Clan website. As they say, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Since the recent resurrection of Elf Clan it has seen many elves flocking back to a banner that represents Elven values and honor.
Human Resource
Aug 17th, 2007
Forcythia was the person who bought the lands. She in no way stole them, she owned them to begin with. I can’t believe people still listen to Wayfinder. The fact that the man doesn’t know the difference between owning land and renting land doesn’t make Forcythia a thief.
As for “Absconding” with funds. Those funds continued to support the community. The fact that Wayfinder believe he is the embodiment of everything elven in SL doesn’t make it true. Him believing he was Elf Circle and not the people that made it up shows the kind of egomaniac he is. I feel sorry for whoever he conned into funding him this time.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Aug 17th, 2007
“Human Resource”, your comment is understandable considering the extreme propaganda that has been circulated by some members of Forcythia’s group and she herself, but I’m afraid it’s an example of someone who has no idea what he’s talking about (and I would say don’t take offense, but considering the extremely offensive nature of your post… time to be less gullible).
I usually avoid these blogs and forums, but this nonsense requires response. You have obviously (from unfactual statements in your post) been misinformed, so I’m going to provide factual information in the face of propagandistic claims. Hope it helps you come to a better understanding of the situation.
First, I had no foreknowledge of Celty’s above post and didn’t hear of it until long after posted. That should tell you something about the earnestness and validity of it. I applaud his courage for standing up to the crowd and telling it like it is. Now let’s talk about telling it like it isn’t…
“Human Resources” posted: ((As for “Absconding” with funds. Those funds continued to support the community. The fact that Wayfinder believe he is the embodiment of everything elven in SL doesn’t make it true. Him believing he was Elf Circle and not the people that made it up shows the kind of egomaniac he is. I feel sorry for whoever he conned into funding him this time.))
Addressing this comment in reverse… no, I never believed I was “Elf Circle”, as that group was the one Forcythia founded when she turned against the original group, ELF CLAN. So perhaps you need to get your facts straight. You admit that Forcythia retained funds from the group, but then used them “to support the community”. Those funds belonged to Elf Clan, not Elf Circle. If those funds were used for Elf Circle (or whatever) then they were not used for the purpose for which they were donated by members of ELF CLAN, were they?
The fact that SOME members of Elf Clan joined Forcythia in her group does not mean she was using those funds for the benefit of Elf Clan members. More than 90% of Elf Clan remained with the original group (some joined Forcythia, some quit both groups due to the drama she created). As for your name-calling of “egotistical” and “beleiving he was the embodiment of everything elven in SL”… exuse me, have we met? I certainly don’t recognize your name. Using an alias? (brave step there). Were you even a member of Elf Clan when these things happened, or are you just parroting what others have said? I simply ran a very successful group, the most popular fantasy group of its day. Even after several months haitus, when we returned to SL Elf Clan was still popular. If it’s “egotistical” to design and manage a group that works, then hey, what can I say? Sorry that offends ya.
Realize this: Elf Clan in 2006 (just a few months before the drama started) won the 2006 Metaverse Awards for GROUP and LANDS, and an Elf Clan member won for BUILD in her DarkWood library (the original home of Elf Clan before we bought our own sims). These were primarily popularity awards. Now tell me, if I was doing such a terrible, awful, tyrannical job of running Elf Clan… where did those awards come from? Where did all the positive reviews in the online newspapers come from? Why was Elf Clan one of the best known groups on the grid? (not blowing my own horn mind you… it was definitely a group effort).
As one user stated in public chat, “Everyone was perfectly happy with the way Wayfinder was running things until Forcythia started the drama.” So hey, facts is facts. Elf Clan ran just fine for almost 2 years before I had to finally take action against a renegade officer. She proved her true nature when instead of honorably accepting a private and unpublished removal from office– she started a very public drama war. That is all factual, recorded history.
If you wish to read the real story behind the rift, visit http://elfclan.net. Forcythia was removed from office for two major reasons: refusing to account for group funds and mismanagement of group lands and rentals. There were dozens of lesser ones (constant opposition to group founder and group goals, drama,etc. Frankly, if we had enjoyed the group functions members enjoy today, she’d have been removed from office long before she was). That’s not my doing… that was hers. Attitude brings consequenses. Anyone mishandling funds would be “fired” in any RL group or business. That’s how life works dude.
So sorry to throw factual reality into your rant, but hey, we all have to face the truth sometime. Here are more facts:
No, Forcythia did not buy those sims. She was a contributor, yes, as was I and a hundred others. But those sims were purchased by a land group agreement, of which land group I was the founder. Those lands were held and administered for the exclusive use of Elf Clan, not for Forcythia to do whatever she wanted with them. All of Elf Clan donated heavily to purchase those sims. The sims were registered under Forcythia’s name due to her major contribution on the first sim, and due to SL technicalities (especially in the ares of Estate Security– even moreso in those days) subsequent sims were placed in her name as well. But they were funded through Elf Clan donations and rent. According to the Land Group aggreement, she was to be repaid for her contribution, which she was– and more, through additional donations and rent collected. Forcythia did not set up the rental system… I did. She did not set up the extensive merchant system which helped pay sim tier. I did. Forcythia did not terraform those sims or build the primary builds that attracted so much attention on SL. You have to realize, when we set up Elf Clan, SL had a total of 25,000 members. Large fantasy groups did not exist; we were the first to top 500 members. Our lands were very unique… and people loved the attractions.
Forcythia was not a founder of Elf Clan… she was an assigned officer with her duties and privileges defined by THE Founder, which was me. I’m sorry some anarchistic people felt I shouldn’t have the right to run my own group but hey, can’t please everyone, and drama queens are always looking for a reason to cause disruption.
Elf Clan is made up of many people who richly contribute to the group. I will be the first to recognize that fact and applaud our members for helping to preserve the honor and friendship that have always been the hallmarks of our group (as well as some really beautiful builds). But I founded Elf Clan and worked hard to make it successful, which according to SL rules means it was and is my group. Fact of life. Sorry you and others like you could not rule it yourselves according to your opinions, but then, you didn’t do all the work to set it up and keep it going, did you? Elf Clan worked extremely well until Forcythia started the drama. That’s how things go sometimes. We’re not the first large group to have trouble from an officer-with-attitude, nor the first group that has removed an officer from office for failing to follow the tenets of that office. Bottom line: Forcythia betrayed Elf Clan bigtime. And all the propaganda in the world will not change that fact. Sorry this sort of thing keeps coming up, but that’s the price one pays for dishonor. As long as members of Forcythia’s group continue to ply propaganda, we will continue to respond with the facts.
Now, I hope this doesn’t come across as negative. I do hope it helps you and others of your opinion to wake up to reality rather than swallowing all the nonsense and propaganda that was circulated by Forcythia’s group (and still continues to circulate to this day). Elf Clan is back, we have three sims and we’re growing rapidly. A lot of people are joining our group due to dissatisfaction with how Forcythia’s group is being run. That should say a lot right there.
Any further questions you may have, feel free to IM me.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Aug 17th, 2007
Oh, one more statement “Human”. The person who was “conned” into funding this time is one of Elf Clan’s oldest, most honorable and knowledgable members, Peter Lioncourt. I assure you, he knows well what happened and the history of this matter. And if you knew Peter Lioncourt, you would know he is far from being the kind of person who can be talked into something. He invested his lands in Elf Clan (and I repeat, HIS lands– Elf Clan did not donate toward the purchase this time) because like the majority of our members… he loves the group. And Elf Clan members are most appreciative of his generosity.
Human Resource
Aug 17th, 2007
Was that a 90% active, or was it like the SL inflated population numbers you seem to go after Linden Labs about?
Errant Thymes
Aug 18th, 2007
Wayfinder, forget Human Resources. The guy obviously has an attitude and even more obvious doesn’t have a clue and doesn’t care about having a clue. Drama queens are all over SL. You set the record straight on the Elf Groups and you did so without calling Human Resource an imbecilic ass. I figure that took a lot of self-control right there. LOL. From what I see, all he did was call you a lot of names without providing any proof or facts at all. That’s what I’ve seen from all the Elf Circle “nobility”. Just a bunch of mouths trying to cover their butts and hide what they did.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Aug 19th, 2007
Errant, I am saddened by people like “Human Resources” who seem to be unable to separate fantasy from reality– or are just so gullible they buy any story that comes along. Unfortunately, that happenes a lot on SL (and in RL too for that matter). Even with the matter set straight as you stated, the only thing he could come up with was a lame challenge of membership figures. That’s pretty pitiful. As is usual with these people, he didn’t address any actual issues, didn’t acknowledge points made, refused to answer questions I asked him, and continued to cop attitude. Can’t do anything about such individuals. They seem to enjoy wallowing in emotion.
Fortunately, most Elf Circle members are new and have no idea about what happened (and don’t really care) which is why we welcome them to our lands without prejudice. Most of the things stated above were perpetrated by Forcythia and her close friends and could not have happened at all had I not trusted her with group lands and funds. But hindsight is always 20/20.
To answer your question “Human Resourse” (I always have to laugh when people are so strong in their convictions that they have to use a fake name or an ALT… LOL)… you asked if the 90% that stuck with Elf Clan were active members and compared that statement to the “membership” claims of Linden Lab. Let’s answer that question with fact and reason. I already mentioned that Elf Clan Metaverse Awards just a few months before the drama. Who do you think voted for Elf Clan, members of tech groups? In addition, we had four rented sims. Obviously we had a rather large and very active membership… something you should have been able to figure out before making such a sadly desperate challenge.
Since you don’t really seem to care about answers and truth “Human”, you’ll excuse me if I attempt to ignore any further of your rants. Sorry you’re of the attitude you are, but not my problem. Elf Clan is doing well.
Shaydin Eliot
Aug 23rd, 2007
Seeing as I don’t care enough to go in to a wordy comment on whatever Wayfinder thinks is reality all I’m going to say is if you care enough..ask both sides of the issue..I’m sure Wayfinder will be more than happy to show factual proof to you as long as you care to listen to him go on and on about something from 2 years ago.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Aug 25th, 2007
On the other hand Shaydin, if you and your group would cease the propaganda and lies, we wouldn’t have to constantly set the record straight, would we? Every time someone says something nice about me or Elf Clan, there is always someone from Elf Circle jumping in (usually with a bogus name– eh RodneyLee? At least Shaydin has the guts to use her own name) with the same old garbage and name-calling. The messages have the same immature tone and slanderous claims (which is how I pretty much know who left them) and you people haven’t presented a valid point or fact since this happened. What facts?
Oh, the fact that this didn’t happen two years ago. It happened one ago this June… so it’s still fresh in a lot of minds. And the facts that when I leave a message in response, no matter how lengthy, instead of using terms such as “tyrant” and “egotistical” blah blah blah, I set the record straight with information. And I’m almost always responded to by people such as Human Resources and you… who ignore all of the evidence and still cop an attitude. You people are so gullible to propaganda it amazes me.
I had hoped that in the absense of Elf Clan, the leaders of Elf Circle might have grown up and wised up a bit. But you haven’t. That was proven by the “Elf Liberation Day” you folks held in June. Not only did your group rip off and betray Elf Clan, but then you have the gall to celebrate the anniversary of that dishonorable deed? How bogus can a group get. Then you whine because we respond to slanderous messages with facts? LOL. That’s just sad.
I’m sorry you and others in your group hate having the truth brought up again and again. If you hate it so much, then I would recommend gaining an ounce of honor and stopping the propaganda engine. Because the fact is, as much as you all would like to sweep things under the rug and have the history of what the leaders of Elf Circle did go away, you people have absolutely no excuse for what you did. As long as the ones responsible keep trying to make excuses and keep up the lies such as “Human Resources” did above… you can be assured we will be here to set the matter straight. I hate drama as much as anyone. But I hate lies and immaturity even more. You try to drag my name and the name of Elf Clan through the mud… and then you slam me when I respond. LOL, it would be almost humorous if it weren’t so dishonorable.
Here’s another fact Shaydin: during the time of Elf Clan, elves on Second Life had a great reputation as being friendly, honorable, and having beautiful lands. Your group has gained the rep of being unfriendly, rude and inhospitable, and all over the grid people talk about the elven with disdain. Elf Clan didn’t do that. You did that all on your own. So stop whining. You made your bed.
RodneyLee
Aug 28th, 2007
ROFLMAO
Shaydin Eliot
Aug 29th, 2007
ok,first off..we don’t go on and on posting on boards about the rift, nor do we sit there and badmouth you or anyone else who is your friend.If someone IS doing that please let us know and we’ll stop them..simple as that,because they certainly aren’t doing it with our permission.second..Elf Liberation Day is a joke that came up one day and people went with it(most times we call it Elf Libation Day anyways..got beer?) third..i don’t know who people are talking to..its certainly not me..i try to be friendly all the time(might not seem like it right now..but it’s 3Am…its enough i’m even awake and typing legibly right now:P)As for attitude..i can dish it if you like..but i would prefer not to
Off to bed and then work now..Goodnight!
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Aug 30th, 2007
Fair response Shaydin. But if you are unaware of people badmouthing me and Elf Clan, perhaps reading a little further back in these posts from “Human Resource”, you’ll find you don’t have to look very far to see an example of such. And since that is not the first such post, it does get old (there have been numerous examples, in response to just about every decent article that’s been written in this zine about Elf Clan).
As for posting information regarding the rift, that is history. It is a truth that history– both good and bad, is usually documented. We have been asked over and over again why Elf Clan left SL for a while, why we returned, and what happened to make us leave. Rather than repeating that story over and over to each individual who asks, we provide that information on the Elf Clan website. No doubt the leaders of your group don’t like that, but frankly Scarlett… They exercised no conscience when they took three sims paid for by Elf Clan, and had no qualms in destroying our historic builds and disrupting our group. So we certainly have no qualms in relating the facts of what happened to those who ask. And what’s funny about all this, the reason most people ask us is because of badmouthing they’ve heard from Elf Circle. It makes them curious regarding our side of the story. How’s that for irony?
I’m sorry this keeps coming up, and I realize that a large number of the members of Elf Circle are unaware of what has gone before. But I am also aware of a number of members that are not so innocent and who go out of their way to continue to be involved in the drama-like activities upon which the group was founded. My advice to such ones is this: if you don’t want this information to keep being dredged up time and time again, stop the propaganda and slander. Recommend to “Human Resource” (and others like him) that if he can’t work up up the courage to post something using his known SL name, to at least have enough wisdom to resist posting the drivel he’s written thus far on these boards. Because every time such slander and drama is posted– there will be factual response.
When we do something wrong, that can come back to haunt us even after quite some time has passed. Elf Circle was founded upon drama and theft and sleander. That is a reality that will likely come up from time to time, no matter how much its members attempt to deny what happened. It’s called consequenses of actions. One solution is to begin acting with greater honor. Anyone with a little foresight might have realized that holding a “liberation” celebration a year after betraying the original group might be perceived as continuing and even revelling in a course that was dishonorable to start with. Elf Clan’s policy is to welcome all visitors and give drama the heave-ho. When you folks cease the drama and attitude, you’ll likely find the repercussions and consequenses of such will lessen as well. But so long as those who started Elf Circle continue to cop attitude, they will likely continue to experience problems from such.
When Elf Clan returned, we didn’t send spies to your lands. We didn’t stand around badmouthing Elf Circle to new visitors. And unlike Elf Circle’s attitude toward our group… we’re not rude to your members when they visit here. When your group starts acting with a little more maturity, perhaps you’ll find things will begin functioning a little more smoothly. We returned to Second Life with a policy of “we’ll leave them alone and they can leave us alone and we’ll just get on with things”. We advised our Greeters and memebers to treat Elf Circle people with all hospitality. If Elf Circle had found the maturity to do the same, we likely wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Blinders Off
Sep 3rd, 2007
Quote from article: Camus eventually quit the group when “it became clear to me Forcythia was more concerned about building an empire than with the harm done to individuals.”
From what I’ve seen in the above posts, this is the crux of the matter. That’s what Wayfinder claimed. That’s what the evidence appears to indicate. It seems that is the main objection by members of Elf Circle. Leaving someone like this in a position of group responsibility is a questionable leadership decision. In this one case, I’d have to agree with the people who say that the group Founder doesn’t have the right to do whatever she wants in that group. Normally I wouldn’t say that, except it seems to be what she and her founding officers said of the leader of Elf Clan. By their claims he didn’t have the right to remove her from office for the things she was doing in ripping off the first group. What applies to one applies to the other. If Forcythia has the right to do whatever she wants, then so did Wayfinder and she was rightfully removed from office and did rip off Elf Clan.
Sounds like a bunch of drama with a side order of two-faced thrown in. People of Elf Circle should have at least some say in who is in positions of responsibility in that group. Considering that this guy totally and intentionally deceived a group member, people might have wonder if he would have the same lack of concience toward playing the group for a fool. But from what I read, maybe he’s in good company. He probably feels right at home with the other officers there. LOL
File Surface
Sep 6th, 2007
I must first address this, since it has appeared to become an issue again, I am (and have been) a member of Elf Clan and later Elf Circle. I actually maintain both simultainiously and have never engaged in the heated disputes between both sides.
Historically, both sides have perpetrated issues with the other. However, other than the initial confusion and hostility that comes with any such event as a group breaking or a controversial issue, the main conflict then tends to be brought up again and fought by individuals. Here, neither GROUP, as a group, has continued hostilities against the other. Members have. As have random, ungrouped, passerby and guest. There have been alts, there have been smarmy comments, there have been isolated flames and confrontations, but as a whole, both GROUPS have conducted themselves with tact.
That being said, THIS article is less about Elf Circle/Elf Clan than about a personal relationship that went sour. Less about that relationship than about how the individuals handled that break.
Unfortunately, there is a history between Elf Circle/Elf Clan that is less than savory however you look at it, but THIS article isn’t the place to bring it back up.
Here, once more, the problem is with an individual who decided that instead of handling a character issue privately, that the individual should make a (continued) public display that was both disruptive and against the stated, understood, and publicly available policy of the region in which that individual was present.
Sadly, this means that, despite a wonderful environment and group of people with like minded views of a fantasy realm, the member was banned from the group and lands. That is not a response to the private relationship, but rather a response to the public nuisance that came from it.
In another forum, such behaivor may be made more apparent – the theater analogy is wonderful, but perhaps this might also illustrate: at a job, in a school, at a concert, in the military, in a courtroom… if a party was previously in a relationship with the higher up (the boss, the teacher/department head, the lead, a superior officer, the judge), that individual does not have the right or priviledge of challenging the other party publicly. The matter is resolved privately and away from the public eye. If it comes up, it is directed to a private scenario or the party who does not have understood and acknoledged authority is in some way INSTANTLY penalized. A boss may dock pay, suspend or fire an employee. A teacher may have the student removed from class, fail the student, or have the student expelled. A concert performer may fire the individual, challenge vocally, or removed rights to the material. A military superior may demote, punish, or even try the inferior officer for any number of actions. A judge may place the attorney in contempt, sanction, fine, rule against the ATTORNEY (as opposed the the client), or report the attorney to the bar association.
This situation, though regretable, does not seem to have been a matter of public concern. It did not stem from a situation of control or corruption. The two parties (gender aside) were not unlike any other virtual individuals….a collection of electrons, programs, sub routines, and computing components set in motion and controlled by HUMAN individuals for their own purposes.
Sadly, this means that HUMANS will be the ones to control and direct their avatars. It also means that HUMANS, not their avatars, are responcible for the actions and choices that those characters make.
This means that should the human behind one party decide to change the avatar’s gender, that human has made that decision. And likewise, is means that should the other human decide to address that change as problematic, their decision to make that apparent to any and all IS their decision to do so. Compounding this, the decision to make that statement public, disruptive, continuous, and detrimental to others is likewise their HUMAN’s decision.
Since joining a group makes an agreement to follow that group’s protocals, beliefs, guidelines, rules, and the like, in return for being a member of the group, it is what is concidered a contract. Legally, the group charter means nothing. But it satisfies all the standard parameters…it has an offer (these things will be made available to you, this land will be traversable to you, you will have capacities a guest may not have in certain regions, we will aknowledge you as a participating individual while your group tag is active, you will be allowed to have the title noted by your group position, etc…along with the restrictions and guidelines), an acceptance (clicking the little button in the group window that says ‘join’), and concideration (the aformentioned benefits). This means that even if there is a problem, even with the so called (but not legally recognized) free speach, the individual has agreed to (on private servers under a private agreement) conduct themselves in a particular manner whilst in a particular virtual region while maintaining that association.
Short version, when you join a group, you agree to their unilaterally decided and set rules, guidelines, and BEHAIVIOR, in addition to whatever else may be indicated. Violations of these agreements can be, and often are, decided unilaterally. The fact that this particular region has a hierarchy is notable, but irrelevant. The behavior exhibitted defies the agreement previously made, voiding the protection of the GRANTED rights of the individual as made in that aggreement. By choosing to pursue other methods than those described and allowed under the agreement, the individual submits themselves to the noted authorities and consequences.
Although people make choices everyday, sometimes they make choices that are ill advised. Spitting on a police officer for giving you a ticket (when you were travelling 20 miles over the limit) may be a direct expression of your frustration, anger, and spite, but it is also an act that will come with consequences. Likewise, should you show up at the officer’s house during a block party while parading pictures of mutilated children and saying it is because the officer gave you a ticket, you will be penalized. Forget the fact that pictures have nothing to do with a ticket, the behavior you exhibit is inflamitory, socially unacceptable, and a violation of protocal that is aggreed upon by all that live within that region of society (as protected under a city ordinance, county ordinance, state code, federal law, or international accord). As such, EVEN a protected capacity (like free speach or expression) has noted, stated, recorded, debated, and accepted limits.
The article is a documentation of one individual who chose to make a public smear of another. Sorry to hear that your digital companion wasn’t the fantasy species, capable of spontainious creation, flight able, teleporting, physics challenged, food optional, uninjurable, gender that you were hoping for. I hope your optional inclusion in a mutual fiction isn’t as detrimental to your real psychi as it makes you sound.
Happy fiction.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Sep 6th, 2007
File, good comment. Lots of good points. It’s a fact of SL that since one never knows who is on the other end of an avatar, that gorgeous chick could always in reality be a pot-bellied, beer-swilling 70 year old male. So folks should be aware up front that they’re taking their chances. That doesn’t justify Armandi reperesenting himself as a RL girl as well as an SL girl. That goes beyond RP. A lie is a lie no matter where and how it’s told. I am certainly aware of Armandi’s history with Elf Clan and can sympathise with Camo’s claims of betrayal.
To be totally honest however, if this sort of thing had happened in Elf Clan, I probably would have made the same decision Forcythia made here (gasp!). Taking personal matters to a public forum so that it disrupts group activities is what we term “drama”. Our Charter has rules against drama, we have a “No Drama” sign up in our entryway to ElvenMyst, and more than one person has been banned for “drama queen” activities (one just last week, in fact). When someone disrupts the harmony of our group, that someone becomes quickly unwelcome.
But also to be frank, I find it amusing that Camo was banned from Elf Circle for the very same reason that Forcythia was banned from Elf Clan. She was removed from office for misconduct of that office, but she still remained a member of the group. She wasn’t banned until she went drama queen and started a very public civil war. LOL. Like they say, what goes around, comes around. Now she’s in the founder chair and has to deal with all the garbage I dealt with a year ago. Seems fitting somehow.
Yichard Muni
Oct 3rd, 2007
I am flabbergasted, when reading all this nasty stuff written here about Elves: how, you visited elven lands, and you did not noticed the friendly people, interesting activities, nice lands, beautiful houses, large turnover, calm and harmonious ambiance, superb musics, which are however praised by everybody. Wow! How you did that? For this my only answer whould be “WAH AH AH AH AH LOLOLOL ROFL” if is was not so sad for you, poetry-disabled and emotion-blind people, who see the world dirty through your dirty glasses.
The lies:
1) Camo was not banned, he resigned himself. His case was certainly troubling, but must we all forever renounce to happiness for this?
2) Heed was not banned for the opinions he expressed, but because he infringed on OUR freedom of expression, by disrupting our events, as this clearly appears from the paper by BB Balderdash.
All this mountain of drama added on some little stones of individual disputes just resulted into harming all the community, killing many groups and initiatives. If at least this discussion intended to find solutions to human problems. But no, it was just for the fun of slinging mud in everybody’s face. Lame.
You know, I have Tibetan friends in RL, and I perfectly know what it means when unpleasant people show up to “liberate” us. You leftists wasted so many worthy social movements in RL, so I shall not let you create mess in our world of dreams and hopes.
This is a personnal statement, what I feel. I am in no way an official speaker of any group or community.