Kinky Demographics of SL BDSM Community
by Alphaville Herald on 11/09/07 at 5:10 pm
Why do virtual Doms accumulate a fleet of subs?
by Victorria Paine
To the consternation of some residents, alternative lifestyles featuring some element of what falls under the umbrella term “BDSM” are very common in SL, and much more “in the open” than in the material world. While the presence of this community, and its visibility in particular, has created controversies among SL participants, as someone who has had experiences in the material world community as well as the virtual one, it’s been very interesting to note some of the differences and distinctions between the two communities. It’s helped me to understand some of the real benefits of the virtual alternative community, as well as some of its serious dysfunctionalities.
One of the first things I’ve noticed that the two communities have in common is the rather skewed demographic of the community. How this plays itself out, however, is very different in the online and offline contexts. Generally speaking, in the offline world it’s conventional wisdom that the D/s community in gender/role terms splits in the following order in terms of numbers of people: male dominants, followed by male submissives, followed by female submissives, followed by female dominants.
The implications of this should be fairly obvious: namely, that for male submissives in particular (most of whom are straight), there is a demographic imbalance that works against the male submissives in particular, and female dominants are also very much “in demand” because they are the most outnumbered of any group.
The way that this demographic imbalance plays itself out in the two communities is reflective of some of the core differences between them, however. In the material world, it is not unknown but also not terribly common for a dominant to have more than one, perhaps two, submissives. Paired relationships are very common, if not normative in a community that generally eschews norms to begin with. The reasons for this are unclear, but perhaps they are related to the same underlying reasons that non-D/s material world relationships tend to be paired for most demographic groups.
demographic pressures
In the virtual world of SL, however, pairing is not common at all – in fact, it’s very common in SL for a female dominant, for example, to have a substantial number of submissives (or slaves, depending on your preferred parlance) – perhaps even as many as 5 or 6 or even more — at the same time. I suspect that the reasons for this are to some degree a combination of the demographic pressures, on the one hand, and the more relaxed attitude towards relational pairing, on the other, that one generally sees in SL. But the interesting question is whether this trend in SL is a good one.
I don’t think it is. I’ve met more than a few submissives who’ve told me that this or that previous dominant had a “fleet of subs”, and that they were very disappointed by the experience because they did not get any (or at least very little) one-on-one time with their dominant. Many of them are so unhappy that they leave that situation and decide to forego having a relationship with any dominant, or otherwise leave the SL’s D/s community altogether. There obviously hasn’t been a scientific study done relating to this, but the anecdotal conversations I have had with many submissives in SL reflects a real dissatisfaction with this demographic trend, and the impact which it has on their ability to enjoy their kink in SL.
I think to some degree this stems from a difference in approach by the dominant part of the community in the material world as compared with SL. Many people are very eager to hide behind platitudes like “you can’t apply the same approach to online and offline D/s”, but the reasoning behind this kind of statement is often left unarticulated or is sloppy when articulated at all. What’s clear is that many submissives are not terribly happy. The response to the effect that “then they are just not submissive enough then, it’s about what I want, not about what they want” is not only laughably inaccurate, but, more fundamentally, reflects an understanding that is oceans divorced from what many participants articulate in the material world.
yin and yang or pyramid scheme
In the material world, D/s relationships are often seen as a kind of yin/yang relationship: two parts, dependent on each other, to make a whole – different yet complementary. In SL, what you often see is a pyramid scheme, with a dominant at the top surrounded by a household of submissives – no longer a yin/yang, or at the very least a very imbalanced one. There really isn’t any relationship paradigm that fits this SL practice, and as a result, it’s not surprising at all to me that it is dysfunctional for many of the submissive household. I can’t help but wonder whether this relates to the fact that many participants in SL’s D/s community are not participants in the material world D/s community – something that, from my perspective, is both an advantage and a disadvantage.
The advantage is that SL provides a platform for people to explore these kinds of kink in an environment that is reasonably remote, anonymous and safe. The disadvantage is that many of those with whom you are co-exploring, whether they are dominant or submissive, are also “green” when it comes to D/s in general, and have no clue about what makes a successful D/s relationship tic. So it’s very much a case of “caveat emptor” for the newcomers to D/s who are using SL to explore their kinky fantasies: what they may experience might be very divorced from the reality of what they could experience in the community in the material world, simply because the people that they are “playing” with also have been formed solely by virtual world experiences in these areas.
And so I would offer a cautionary note to prospective submissives and other curious people who may be thinking of exploring their kink in SL. In a nutshell, it pays to be picky, in SL as it does in the material world. Taking a longer time to find a dominant who knows what she/he is doing is far better than joining an over-extended troupe of submissives, in terms of your own experiences.
Try to be patient, try to be careful in seeing how the relationship model works for a dominant, before committing (something which happens all too quickly in SL in general anyway, but that’s a topic for another article altogether!) to something that may end badly. I’ve met too many submissives in SL who have been burned badly by either inexperienced or simply mean dominants. You can do better. Be picky, be careful, and you will probably have more fun.
[note: In this article, I've confining myself to the non-Gorean D/s community. The Gorean community is an important subcommunity that raises issues that in some ways overlap with what I am discussing here, but which in many ways are substantially different.]
Second Lulz Vigilante
Sep 11th, 2007
“Why do virtual Doms accumulate a fleet of subs?”
And all this time I thought it was a status symbol to have for them to have a bunch of sex slaves. Sort of like collecting stamps or baseball cards. lol!
“In a nutshell, it pays to be picky, in SL as it does in the material world.”
Yeah cuz like…you’re going to want a dom who’s all sweet and romantic and sensitive while they’re tying you up a bondage rack and whipping the shit out of you. Remember to always give your slave some roses to compensate for the whip marks! :p
“The Gorean community is an important subcommunity that raises issues that in some ways overlap with what I am discussing here, but which in many ways are substantially different.”
Goreans lol!
Mytwo Cents
Sep 11th, 2007
“To the consternation of some residents, alternative lifestyles featuring some element of what falls under the umbrella term “BDSM” are very common in SL, and much more “in the open” than in the material world.
[ ]
In fact, it’s very common in SL for a female dominant, for example, to have a substantial number of submissives [ ] at the same time.”
Oh well, ID verification will take care of that fairly soon
SqueezeOne Pow
Sep 11th, 2007
I think most “dominant” people in the D/s circle in SL are collecting fleets because they have self-esteem issues IRL. Whoever they are IRL isn’t good enough to them to be popular and attract a lot of the attention (most likely sexual/romantic) they want.
So how does one compensate? Go into SL and collect people who are into paying attention to you and doing what you say! It’s like being a movie or rock starwithout having to have talent or the appearence of talent!
It happened all the time in Gor when I played there. Most of the guys owning fleets of slaves were macho jerks and plenty of the slaves I talked to weren’t so much into that person that “owned” them as much as playing the role within the context of Gor.
Face it. BDSM and D/s isn’t like Star Trek or combat or even pretending to be rich in SL! You don’t need to be rich or in the military or in crime to do BDSM. There’s little risk unless you’re running for office! Plus you can do it IRL without having to spend a ton of money…certainly only slightly more than a lot of people spend on their appearence and sex machines in SL!
So why are a lot of these people doing it in SL? To compensate for their RL short-comings, because they’re afraid of actual contact with someone in that capacity…probably because it hurts…or to experiment with the idea for consideration IRL.
Crissa
Sep 11th, 2007
There’s an imbalance in the supply and demand for attention, basically. You need to find a relationship that has the balance that you desire.
Time available from people is in short supply, no matter who it’s from. If you take two people, and match them up, there will be time when they are not both on at the same time.
And so when one is on and the other isn’t, that’s ‘demand’ looking for ‘supply’.
Add to that the energy required to ‘dom’ in virtual space is apparently higher than to ‘sub’… It creates problems. Especially when someone is going looking for an experience not unlike TV in their requirement for creativity and participation. (Those sorts are annoying).
janeforyou Barbara
Sep 11th, 2007
The problem with subs are thay after some time get depended on you, then if you got 2 or 3 the jalusy start,you trye to controll them but thay jumps , we call it “mistrees jumping” Then thay do any to get your attantion.. some even trye to ” controll” you lol.
Subs are fun and ok to have for some time,but many of them are not ” stayers” One devoted committed calmed and controlled sub are ok to have but darn had to find!
Maria Leveaux
Sep 11th, 2007
Well written Article, and i Agree with a great Deal of it. I have never seen subs, or slaves leave the care of a collector (A Dom/me who keeps 4 or more slaves/subs) happy, well trained, and Well adjusted, they are usually beaten, lonely and Embittered by neglect. It takes a long while to show them that this is not the ONLY way these relationships can happen. My advice to All slaves, Avoid like the plague anyone calling themselves a dom/me and Possessing more than four slaves.
As i said in my (Now Classic apparently) interview “Interview with Gorean Mistress Maria LaVeaux”, The Dom/me, and the Sub/slave are two sides of the same Coin, Each feeds a Need in the other. It is a relationship that requires balance, trust, and (Shocking idea to people who don’t Understand the Lifestyle) RESPECT.
I don’t Mind the Idea of vanillas Exploring this Lifestyle on Line, but i have always said that it should be done with great care because the potential for damage exists Even On line. Those who refuse to recognize that Fact are those who are Most likely to cause some potentially irreperable damage to their Partner. In SL i am Currently Councelling a Couple, Both very green to the lifestyle, who Almost destroyed their relationship because they Both did Not know enough about the Lifestyle to engage in it Safely. They both have REAL Potential, but they tried to Fly before they could walk, and very nearly paid the price. It will be some Weeks, or months before i will Allow them to begin exploring again in a practicle way, they have much to learn first.
janeforyou Barbara has ALMOST the right Idea in her response, But she tends to lay Blame for the situation on the sub/slave. Dom/me Hoppers, as they are called are subs who are incapable of settling with ANY owner, no matter how few other slaves are owned, for more than a few weeks. They lack commitment. A slave who leaves an owner owing to neglect or ill feelings because their owner lacks enough time in a day even to teach them the basics of being a Sub/slave is NOT in the wrong. It is the owner, Not the sub/slave who has Created, and maintained a poisonous atmosphere. One thing i WILL note about Collectors, the One aspect of Sub/Slave training they NEVER seem to neglect is the Cybersex. The slaves are all, without exception subjected to intensive courses in that aspect.
Maria.
Prokofy Neva
Sep 12th, 2007
This is a good piece for demonstrating what is wrong at the heart of the BDSM ideology, which is a cult.
It gives the lie to all this “safe, sane, consensual” stuff by showing the awful, tawdry, tacky, mass-produced version of BDSM when done on the cheap by low-life, uncultured, uneducated people — but that’s just it, it shows the true nature of the ideology which spawns such crap.
The heart of the ideology is denigration of the dignity of people, enslavement, and coercion masking itself as consent; not surprisingly, a mass, abusive version of this ideology departing from “the orthodox classic version” has thrived in SL.
Men and women collect masses of “pets” or “slaves” because *they can* and because it is condoned, and quite simply, they want pelts on their belt, and they wish to have control over others. There isn’t anything glamorous, intimate, special, beautiful about this, as some claim can be found in BDSM. Here, the mask and the big lie are put aside, and we see — it’s about sheer power over other people, and humiliation of them for malicious pleasure, and that’s why it’s wrong.
I have to laugh out loud at the idea of all these masters and madames in the classical movement thinking they can somehow control the awfulness at the core of their own bad ideology. That they can insist on conformity from their cheaper, tackier, more brazen younger followers spawning and virally replicating everywhere.
It follows the principles of bad ideologies like Nazism or Communism — whatever “pureness” was supposed to be at its core for “doing good” is rapidly undone when it is mass-produced — and that proves that in fact there never was any pureness or goodness.
“I’ve met too many submissives in SL who have been burned badly by either inexperienced or simply mean dominants.” And yet we are told, each time this debate is held, that it is safe, sane and consensual. But it isn’t. It’s abusive, oppressive, and retarded. Young people logging on to Second Life need to stay away from this abusive, oppressive, retarded lifestyle that will harm them. It’s just that simple. There’s nothing glorious or glamorous in it.
Angel
Sep 12th, 2007
In the circles I am in there are far more Ukes (subs) than Semes (Doms), the imbalance in fact is so severe that it’s very easy to gather a chain of Ukes without trying. There really are not that many Semes in my circle.
Artemis Fate
Sep 12th, 2007
“I don’t Mind the Idea of vanillas Exploring this Lifestyle on Line”
I _hate_ the term “Vanilla” for people who aren’t involved in BDSM, suggesting that people who don’t like abusing, dominating, degrading, and humiliating their partner (even in a consensual way) are somehow the bland and uninteresting people. I’m going to start calling BDSM types “Tapioca” because it’s strange, but bland in it’s own way and tastes like crap, but people who like it will swear by it.
Also, I agree with the people who have a bunch of slaves as having some serious self-esteem issues, that they need to surround themselves with people who will lick their boots (literally) and do whatever they want.
I overall dislike hardcore BDSM relationships, because at some level I find them to almost always be deeply irritating, though really I have nothing against their practice, I just enjoyed it more when I didn’t have to hear about it all the time.
Nicholaz Beresford
Sep 12th, 2007
)) They both have REAL Potential, but they tried to Fly before they could walk, and very nearly paid the price. It will be some Weeks, or months before i will Allow them to begin exploring again in a practicle way, they have much to learn first. ((
I guess Maria has two new slaves now …
marilyn murphy
Sep 12th, 2007
whew. i have been thru all this crap. from both sides. good article.
i have been the dominant with to many subs and the sub with the uncontrolled uneducated dominant.
what the article does not discuss is the imbalance in sl as opposed to rl. she lists the rl demographic, but not sl. in sl there are so many subs looking for a dominant, it’s way to easy for the dominant. of course, any idiot who wants to hang out a dominant shingle and gather subs can. i may have been one of those idiots. this does do harm to subs seeking attention.
the writer gives the best solution i know of. advising the sub to be very careful. however. unfortunatly, there are so many subs available, in order to play with this at all, they will probably end up not being able to be picky.
it is a big problem, indeed, but its being generated by the people themselves. most submissives are interested in learning and trying it out, but how can a person tell who is truly knowledgeable and who is just some jerk wanting to control people? when i had to many subs, i like to think i provided a fun atmosphere at least. as to my motivations. if u keep having people come to you wanting to join your little fantasy, in spite of how many subs u already have, it’s hard to turn them away. i will say this, i do think i gained some insight into my own nature thru all this. perhaps others did also, i dont know for sure.
i have to agree with prok tho. at the heart of it, it’s flawed. at least the on line version.
janeforyou Barbara
Sep 12th, 2007
@Maria
Yes but there are diff types of subs and mistress,,i am not Gorean, i dont put hard bond on a sub,its not my way.
And yes a good mistress can hold loong on a sub, but remember this are RL ppl behind it and i dont ” mindplay” as i seen many other do to keep there sub. And it takes time and work..i been there done it a loong time and i had one for a wery loong time, i see a lot of mistress and subs every day, and many need to lern more, i learned all the time and still do, if you stop learning in this you wont make it.
Uccello Poultry
Sep 12th, 2007
Just so many nits to pick at here …. hmmm. I’ll focus on one.
The D/s life doesn’t necessarily mean BDSM is involved. Real Life pulled my Second Life Mistress away recently, but during our short, blissful time together we had agreed that Sado-Masochism was out and that any bondage was limited to role play. I was not her slave, but a free-thinking individual who was completely pliable to her will because I deeply loved her and it was what we both needed. Even to the end she never once used my collar to control me.
Working at the Isle of Lesbos and frequenting other clubs I see many “playing” in the D/s life. It is sadly comical to hear one say “Okies! You’ve been Domme for an hour. It’s my turn!!” I wonder how much furniture Deviant or Strokerz sells just because it is “cool” to have a dungeon. Too many people play at D/s and BDSM for the image without the consequences that would be present in the material world. It is too easy to whip someone in RL and have them quickly put on a torn skin tattoo.
Not all whip marks or burns fade. Some are permanent, painful scars. If this was true in Second Life … :::sigh:::
Victorria Paine
Sep 12th, 2007
Thanks for the comments everyone! A few responses …
I really agreed with your response, Maria, thanks for it. I think it should be underscored to the curious that it is very possible to get hurt if you don’t know what you are doing, even if it is just text and pixels, because this is a very mental and emotional thing, at its core. But I especially agree with this:
“It is the owner, Not the sub/slave who has Created, and maintained a poisonous atmosphere.”
Yes. It’s the Mistress who is responsible for caring for the sub, and for creating the entire experience really. When you see a “Domme hopper”, it pays to sit down and chat with them about what has happened, if you can get them to discuss it openly. Often, you will find that their prior Dommes were just … absentee Dommes for the most part – either not there, or, more common, far too many subs to manage. I remember one woman telling me that there was “too much hanging around” (literally), because her Mistress would simply not have the time to spend with each of her subs the way that any decent Mistress should. But anyway, nice comments, Maria, thanks.
========================
“what the article does not discuss is the imbalance in sl as opposed to rl. she lists the rl demographic, but not sl. in sl there are so many subs looking for a dominant, it’s way to easy for the dominant.”
I agree, but I think that the article says that the demographic is the same more or less in rl and sl – as far as I can tell. I think that female dominants have an easy time finding a male Dom if they want one – but a much harder time finding a suitable one-on-one situation with a female Domme due to the demographic imbalance. But I haven’t noticed a substantial difference in demographics – rather a very different response to a similar demographic situation.
“unfortunatly, there are so many subs available, in order to play with this at all, they will probably end up not being able to be picky.”
For this kind of situation, what I would recommend is for a submissive to “play the field” a bit. Nothing wrong with that. Way too many people jump into collars in SL way too quickly – whereas in the material world that is something that happens only gradually over the course of time as a relationship develops and trust, intimacy etc. are cultivated. I think it’s a better idea for a submissive to resist jumping into a collar, and to play the field a bit until she/he finds a suitable Dom/me.
“how can a person tell who is truly knowledgeable and who is just some jerk wanting to control people?”
Well, I tried to suggest some points in my article. Mainly, I would suggest talking with the Domme, getting her background and experiences, getting a sense of her style, her approach, getting a sense of her philosophy towards BDSM, her philosophy towards relationships, how many subs she has active at the moment, etc. A lot of subs are reluctant to ask *any* questions, but that leads to disaster. You absolutely *must* have a full and frank discussion about all of this before even considering whether to enter into a D/s relationship with someone. With my own precious submissives I can tell you that the relationships began with very long talks about just these kinds of things – on both sides – before anything otherwise happened. It’s critical to have a sense of what you are looking for, and what you want to avoid, but it’s just as critical to go out there and ask questions – enough of them to develop a real comfort level – before jumping into what could be a bad situation.
========================
And now for our beloved Prokofy. I remember you as Dyerbrook, dearie. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose, I suppose. You didn’t get it then, and sure as hell don’t get it now.
“This is a good piece for demonstrating what is wrong at the heart of the BDSM ideology, which is a cult.”
No, it is not a “cult”, Prok. You’ve consistently been wrong about this from the time of your mad ravings when you were a part of the TSO community. I am neither a cultist nor an ideologue, just someone who has sexual kinks and ideas about them, as any intelligent person has ideas about the things that she does in life.
“It gives the lie to all this “safe, sane, consensual” stuff by showing the awful, tawdry, tacky, mass-produced version of BDSM when done on the cheap by low-life, uncultured, uneducated people — but that’s just it, it shows the true nature of the ideology which spawns such crap.”
That’s like saying Pat Robertson sums up all of Christianity. It’s a stupid non-argument. Trying to judge anything by looking at the *worst* of it is an exercise in illogic and stupidity. Does a democratic system of government, for example, get judged on the basis of its worst corruptions and excesses, taking these to reveal the corrupt and worthless core of the entire system? As usual, your argument makes no logical sense, because it’s driven by your personal hate.
“The heart of the ideology is denigration of the dignity of people, enslavement, and coercion masking itself as consent; not surprisingly, a mass, abusive version of this ideology departing from “the orthodox classic version” has thrived in SL.”
No, the heart of D/s is a relationship, not an ideology. Whether you are aware of it or not, some people simply have kinky sexualities. It is a deeply seated psycho-sexual thing, not an ideology. D/s relationships help people who have these psycho-sexual orientations get their needs met. Far from being about the denigration of dignity, it is about affirming the dignity of the alternative sexualities of those who have these kinds of needs – rather than pissing all over them from a self-appointed moral high horse, which appears to be your specialty.
“it’s about sheer power over other people, and humiliation of them for malicious pleasure, and that’s why it’s wrong.”
Not with my submissives, Prok.
“And yet we are told, each time this debate is held, that it is safe, sane and consensual. But it isn’t. It’s abusive, oppressive, and retarded.”
It *can* be abusive with the wrong dominant, I agree. But any relationship can be abusive with the wrong partner. Does this mean all relationships are retarded? Again, Prok, you have no logic to your thoughts, merely judgment and rabid hate, as you always have.
“Young people logging on to Second Life need to stay away from this abusive, oppressive, retarded lifestyle that will harm them. It’s just that simple. There’s nothing glorious or glamorous in it.”
Young (and not so young) people who have these kinds of kinked sexualities should explore them in SL if they wish, but of course they should take care in whom they choose to play with. I’ve given some practical advice, as has Maria. It *can* be done well, with respect, dignity, and love, and when it is done so it can be the most fulfilling thing in the world for those involved. I know you can’t wrap your narrow-minded, hate-filled mind around that, Prok, but that’s simply your problem, not mine.
SqueezeOne Pow
Sep 12th, 2007
I know one way for the BDSM crew out there to regain the “purity” of their hobby. Stop advertising! That way the ones that are ACTUALLY into it will seek it out and find it. Otherwise the “vanilla” or otherwise posers (although I think everyone who does BDSM in SL is a poser when it comes down to it) will go be kinky furries or something.
Just a thought!
Delilah Karas
Sep 12th, 2007
My observations are based more on experiences in text based gaming formats but I believe the same basic situations probably prevail.
1) In most BDSM based gaming scenarios – one of the problems is finding male players who have the least inkling of what the game is about, and how to write in such a way that their co-players don’t expire from boredom while waiting for each response. As others above have observed, many many many male players are in it strictly for macho or ego plumping reasons or to get their sexual jollies off without any interest in entertaining the woman who is so entertaining them, or in giving her an experience at least as good as the one she is giving him
1a) As a sub-clause to the above: I played in both Gor and non-Gor based games. In either case, there usually is a great deal of stuff that the female slave is required to know and generally there is a lot of competition for writing out, for example, the perfect dance or the perfect serve etc. When a slave writer receives two sentences in response to three paragraphs, that writer quickly starts looking for a replacement Master or Mistress.
2) Also speaking from my own experience, the internet creates its own set of problems. Frequently, we are not all playing from the same time zone. A Master or Mistress may collect a stable of perhaps 3 slaves in order to have someone to co-write with regardless of time zone. The problem with this is that if two slave writers are on at the same time as the Master or Mistress writer, now those two slave writers are in a virtual competition with each other for one on one time with the Master or Mistress writer. Often then, the slave writers are required to perform with each other or it is understood that they should be affectionate with each other. IMO, this causes a lot of problems especially if one or both of those slave writers are not at all inclined that way.
3)It’s my opinion that players in a BDSM based game or situation should speak to each other honestly Out of Character (ooc) to determine if their needs and desires as relates to that game or those characters are complimentary. It can be very tempting on the parts of both parties to simply latch on to one another in order to avoid the dreaded, “I have no one to play with” syndrome. Plus, many games, including Gor often carry a “mandatory collaring” unspoken clause. Meaning that if the slave character were really in Gor, for example, he or she would not be able to say that they refused to be collared. The element of force is quite prevalent in that world-scheme. Naturally a writer should have every right to refuse to write with a given co-author, but many games demand that the writer accede to a mandatory collaring type rule. I think this alone leads to a great deal of unhappiness among subs.
This is probably no use to anyone, but these are thoughts I’ve had on games like this for some time so thanks for giving me a place to put them.
Prokofy Neva
Sep 12th, 2007
Naah, it’s a cult, always was a cult, and now we see it in spades, and it’s even more evident, with all the thousands of ruined lives on the balance sheet, then it was back then.
Pat Robertson, even if you don’t like his ideology or religion, or find him insensitive to America’s wrongs in the world, doesn’t leave scars on people’s bodies; he doesn’t make homes break up; he doesn’t cause ruin and force thousands of people to form support groups just to get over the experience.
And nobody judges Christianity by Pat Robertson, or any other figure they might find odious, say, because of anti-gay sentiment. Because Christianity, whatever you want to say about its evils over the years, has done more good than harm and been an inspiration for civilization. It isn’t destructive like a cult, and like some more extremist forms of other religions. The extremism of Christianity isn’t generally found in the modern era.
Meanwhile, BDSM has left a trail of tears literally everywhere, broken wills, minds, bodies. Pretty awful stuff. To try to make a moral equivalence of say, Pat Robertson and BDSM or jihadists, or to do this usual extremist Internet meme that says “the KKK is a function of Christianity” (that’s wierd)merely because the KKK is situated in a Christian culture in general — that’s just moral blindness. But then, we’re used to that at the Herald.
People whose psyches and inner beings have been damaged (so many BDSM types are victims of child molestation or sexual abuse of some kind) who desire a replay of this over and over are not fulfilling some deep need in some legitimate way; they are re-enacting a dysfunction and perpetrating the damage — on themselves, and others.
People who believe they must restrict their relationships to these kind of dominations or submissions and abuse are the ones with the narrow minds, not me : )
Morgana Fillion
Sep 13th, 2007
Cute opinions, but perhaps you should poll a few psychologists and find out whether they get a lower percentage people needing therapy to recover from Christian teachings than those who need to get over the ‘cult of BDSM’. I think your ‘nobody’ comment is highly faulty and based on nothing but your insistence in pretending the world works just they way you need it to to make whatever point you’re making at the moment.
Good article on the different parameters of RL and SL BDSM, Victorria. One thing I’ve noticed about SL-style D/s is that the abundance of subs and relative shortage of dom(mes) is that there is often a pyramid structure with a dom on top, subs below and then the subs also having subs. I do wonder how the subs at the bottom of the structure can possibly find a satisfactory experience if their dom(me) is also accountable to someone else as a sub.
Craig Cleghorn
Sep 13th, 2007
instead of commenting on the article, i would instead like to contribute to an attack i see in progress by prokofy neva.
first off, you call it a cult, well, in many aspects, it isn’t a cult, since there is always the ability to leave the life. and second, you claim that christianity does more good than harm, perhaps, you haven’t read history, but here is a quick refresher on that, so you can remember things ACCURATELY, before you fly off the handle…
christianity is responsible, directly for:
1)muslim hatred of christians through the crusades, which intentionally KILLED thousands…
2) silent consent of the slave trade, causing the forced migration of many africans towards the colonies, and if you don’t believe that there wasn’t scars or deaths from that, you aren’t just a bigot, but a racist.
3) the silent support of the nazi’s during WW2, hmmm, near extermination of an entire race of humanity…..
4) the objectification of women, even in “pure” christianity, I.E. catholicism, women can’t even practice the rites of celebration….
no then on to the “support group issue… 12 step programs are a christianity based organization that is federally funded to cue addiction by believing in god….. man you need a fact checker like i need a spelling checker, which is pretty badly…
BDSM, and D/s are two separate things, and as a Retired, repeat Retired “Master” there is a difference between what YOU view as the lifestyle, and the actuality that is the lifestyle…
if a sub is abused, she has a horrid, disrespectful Dom/me, and THAT is the truth.
Second Lulz Vigilante
Sep 14th, 2007
@Craig Cleghorn
Lemme correct a couple of things:
“1)muslim hatred of christians through the crusades, which intentionally KILLED thousands…”
Actually, Muslims started that one. At the time they were spreading out all over the place trying conquer everything because they thought “Allah said so”.
Christianity had the right idea in fighting them. Where they fucked up was when they became divided, i.e. The Catholics calling a Crusade against Constantinople which was an Eastern Orthodox place.
“2) silent consent of the slave trade, causing the forced migration of many africans towards the colonies, and if you don’t believe that there wasn’t scars or deaths from that, you aren’t just a bigot, but a racist.”
However, there were many Christians involved in the Abolitionist movement. Conversely, there were also plenty of atheists involved in the slave trade.
“3) the silent support of the nazi’s during WW2, hmmm, near extermination of an entire race of humanity…..”
Serious critics of the wartime Pope have never said that there was “silent consent”. Their actual criticism is that “he didn’t do enough”…not the same thing. The Vatican’s response to the criticism? The Vatican has always been adamant that Pius XII used quiet persuasion and back channels to save the lives of thousands of Jews.
Somebody should’ve Godwined you but I didn’t feel like doing it. :p
“4) the objectification of women, even in “pure” christianity, I.E. catholicism, women can’t even practice the rites of celebration….”
Objectification of women has also been extensively practiced by atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and every other group.
Craig, blanket assertions that “Christianity(or whatever other religion) is resposible for (fill in the blank)” are as fallacious as when Christians say that “atheism is resposible for (fill in the blank)”. It isn’t religion, or atheism, or agnosticism, or deism that is “responsible”. No, it’s individual human beings who are “responsible” for their own actions. It’d be nice if both you and Prokofy could figure this out.
Steph
Sep 16th, 2007
I’d just like to say Wow to the last 5 or so posts for so completely ruining christian history, religious tolerance, general history, and pretty much every enlightenment philosopher to come out of Europe or even America. There are so many incorrect and assumed things in your posts I can’t even begin to correct them all without writing a book. I’d just like to say that you all might want to re-read your posts and try to find all the bias you put in your crippled versions of 5th grade text book ideas of the past. Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but read a book. You should probably start with Locke’s A Letter Concerning Toleration. Ultimately though, every group from the Catholic Church to the KKK all speak of noble goals, but it’s the people that come to power in those groups that defy the natural rights of man. Shame on the lot of you for taking these things for granted. It is wildly apparent that by your posts humanity, (possibly only Americans), has forgotten what it means to suffer at the hands of a cruel dictator and what the common folk had to do to free themselves from oppression. Continue then, to sit in front of your computers sitting in your overly-technologized, air conditioned homes and re-hash disagreements that have been argued ad infinitum by those greater than you.
Now that that’s overwith, all I really wanted to say about this post is that I dislike the word “Vanilla”. It’s patronizing and arrogant to assume that those who don’t practice BDSM are in some way uninteresting. Word to whoever posted about that. Peace.
Ariallyn Heartsdale
Sep 17th, 2007
I wanted to add a few quick comments on Christianity to this discussion. Christianity historically has caused as much good as has caused evil. The Dark Ages in general are a good look at the evils caused by Christianity. The advent of Christianity set back humanity, in terms of scientific achievement, by about 500 years. For example, indoor plumbing and heated water can originally be traced back to the Library of Alexandria, which also had some steam engines nothing complicated but they were seen there, yet when did Christians first start using these tools. Granted Christians were not the sole cause of the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, but they were the final cause. The Library of Alexandria was almost destroyed four other times, but all of the other times they were either rebuilt by the people that destroyed it or left alone so they could rebuild themselves. Chirstianity and its general intolerance of others led to the final destruction of this repository of information. But since the Enlightenment, Christianity has become more tolerant of others and science. In response to the arguement about slavery I proffer this scenario. As civilization has advanced slavery became more and more obsolete. Where were Abolistionists located. Primarily in the industrialized North which because of its dependence on machinery found slaves to be unprofitable. Therefore to give Christianity credit for abolishing slavery would be the same as giving Christianity credit for creating slavery. Slavery is needed in an agricultural society without machinery because people cannot do enough work by themselves, it is easier to raise food for a large number of people then to just raise enough for yourself. Where are you going to find the workers though? That is how slavery developed and then when the Industrial Revolution happened the logical course of events followed. My question is this, if Christianity had never risen to power during the Roman Empire, which was remarkably tolerant of any and all religions the only reason Christianity survived, where would we as a civilization be today?
Venus Jenkins
Sep 20th, 2007
One thing I’ve always known is that a good D/s relationship must start and finish with negotiation. Without the negotiation then I do not know what is expected of me, and the Dom/me I am with does not know what I expect. That is where the problems come in.
‘When two people are alone together and one of them is naked and tied up, and the other is standing over them holding whips and various torture implements, this is not the time to have a serious mismatch of expectations. ‘
Jay Wiseman, SM-101 quoted in “Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns”
Pale Violet
Jun 6th, 2010
As a vanilla, female sub experimenting with BDSM in SL, I guess I want to add some positive notes to this discussion. I’m 47 and this may be part of why green or cruel doms really haven’t ruined my SL BDSM experience. I have a strong secure sense of who I am and what I want, and I know I can leave any situation or person on SL at any time.
I haven’t hadany trouble finding satisfying male doms to role play with, some of whom are amazingly intuitive, knowing just what to say and when to say it. A few say they have several subs, but I must be logging on when those subs aren’t around, because I have only once had to share a dom with another sub…and that actually turned out to be quite fun.
I play with many different doms when I’m on SL, though I have one with whom I’ve connected more deeply than the rest. Instead of being lost in a stable of subs, sometimes I find myself inundated with eager doms wanting to tp me away so they can have me to themselves. And even though these interactions in SL seemed like just sexplay at first, I learned that it can be more, much more, on both sides, when we get away from any rigid, scripted sense of what BDSM is supposed to be.