Religious Art for Peace In SL
by Alphaville Herald on 21/11/07 at 1:59 am
Will residents listen to message of mutual respect and tolerance?
by California Condor, the Evangelist of Second Life
Offsetting the dark human appetite for destruction
On November 12th of 2007, avatars gathered at the city of Ir Shalom at the Jewish Historical Museum for the “Cultural Origins: Pathways to Peace” Art Show where artists from diverse religious backgrounds displayed their work to demonstrate mutual respect, tolerance, and love.
This event, done in partnership with the Cetus Gallery District and Twilights Peace Group featured pictorial art from Jewish, Muslim, Aboriginal, Christian, Hindu and New Age faiths. The exhibit was mutually worked on with the desire to send the message that all faiths can live in peace with each another.
Carter Giacobini, who is moshel/sim owner for Ir Shalom expressed his jubilance, saying, “We’re so thrilled to be working w/ the caliber of artists that are showing at the exhibit. Cetus Gallery District and Twilight’s Peace were fantastic to work with. All of us involved hope that our message of peace and tolerance carries through to all that see the amazing works of art that are being displayed.”
This warm-hearted expression is not new for Ir Shalom. Avram Leven, who is actively involved in the Jewish community of SL, is the events manager and media liaison for Ir Shalom. Since January of this year, I have personally had many opportunities to enjoy friendly discussion of beliefs with Avram. He and I do not quite see eye-to-eye on some key matters of faith. However, our chats have always been encouraging and I have always found him kind. Well appreciated, whereas, although we are both of Hebrew descent, I am one who believes in Jesus.
Avram commented, “its sort of controversial within SL’s Jewish community but i think we are making our mark and carving our niche”. When I had asked Leven how long the exhibit will remain up, he replied, “due to the overwhelming postive reaction from the SL community, the display will be featured indefinitely”.
Art presentators included avatars Zeke Salomon (Buddhist), Lona Shan (Islam), Texanna Schumann (Christianity), Blue Tsuki (New Age), and Abby Rebinstein (Jewish).
Among passing comments at the event was from Ayn Tomsen, a friendly outgoing social avatar who said, “I had no idea the American people are so religious.” She was paraphrasing what a visitor from an Arabic country was saying during the show.
Xander Ruttan, who owns the Cetus Gallery District, had this to say about the exhibit, “This show aptly demonstrates the power of creativity, not argument and division, as a healing force for people of different faiths. This human drive to create is what will offset the dark human appetite for destruction. These accomplished artists’ works may appear dissimilar on the surface, but they offer us a common bond through understanding of other cultures.”
For many centuries, art has been used to communicate faith and political opinions that may have perhaps been difficult to speak about publicly. Within the last 50 years, science-fictions have been written and made into movies the same way. Now we see the new canvas of the virtual world, Second Life, following in the same, and also addressing new issues rising in these latter days.
ahahahaha
Nov 21st, 2007
> Will residents listen to message of mutual respect and tolerance?
No.
beth
Nov 21st, 2007
Kudos to the Herald for an article that highlights the better things in SL. If we have more positive articles, residents will eventually be more positive.
And yes, I’m an optimist. If you don’t like it, too bad.
DaveOner
Nov 21st, 2007
It would have been nice to see more pictures. And while I agree with ahahaha’s implication that a lot of people in SL are ignorant, intolerant and disrespectful (much like ahaha’s post
) that doesn’t mean people should stop trying. The same goes for RL.
And yes, kudos to the Herald for actually having an article that doesn’t have to do with genitals or griefers!
Lewis Nerd
Nov 21st, 2007
Interesting place.
Malachi Rothschild
Nov 21st, 2007
I took some pics of the opening if you’d like to see more. They’re in the Ir Shalom pool on flickr, starting with this one and moving to the right:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/malachi_rothschild/2001904855/in/set-72157602814090258/
The exhibit is still up on the 2nd floor of the Jewish Historical Museum in Ir Shalom if you want to check it out yourself.
Malachi Rothschild
Nov 21st, 2007
Sorry, that was the link to my Ir Shalom set. This is the first one in the group pool:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/malachi_rothschild/2002703470/in/pool-irshalom/
like_ummm
Nov 21st, 2007
no pictures of art in an article about an art exhibition? why?
like_ummm
Nov 21st, 2007
People of religious faith are delusional (see Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion). To support such a delusion is immoral. Religion is *the* major cause of societies problems today. If you want people of different religious faiths to get along – the first step is to stamp out religion.
Communication
Nov 21st, 2007
I believe the biggest problem we have is a lack of communication between residents. Group Chats in general suffers from this lack of communication. I join groups because I love the groups subject. I want to talk about the subject discuss the subject debate the subject with more than one person at once and not have to be in some laggy location to do so. I want to be able to do this from the comforts of my own little plot of Virtual land on a Island I picked to build on after visiting various island. All through a group chat. I currently belong to a group that has a loosely open chat 24/7 for the groups subject, which is scripting. I have learned more about scripting in SL by reading these open chats where one person or 2 or 3 are trying to solve a scripting issue I love it. But every once in a while someone comes into the group chat and requests that we please take the convo to IM. Sure if I wanted to speak souly to so and so about such and such id IM but what if I 4 or 5 of us are talking and chating about something? With the recent tp problems and login issues SL has been having everyone getting together to talk about something has been next to impossible.
I usually tell the please dont spam the group chat people that the window does say COMMUNICATE. I understand and follow the rules when it comes to retail group chats you know the kind. The group made for some product that they are selling. Sure they dont want a bunch of chatter cutting into their advertising system. But dont push your anti chat views on those of us wanting to discuss the mating habits of the fruit fly or something. I believe that the religous art is a good step in the right direction to opening up the channels of COMMUNICATION between more than 2 Avies. Sorry about the rant but this is a issue i believe needs to be addressed before SL becomes one big catalog.
Reach out and chat with some people. Get to know everyone you can.
Malachi Rothschild
Nov 21st, 2007
@ like_ummm.
I think calling religion *the* major cause of “societies problems” today is a bit inaccurate. I think it would be more accurate to suggest that absolutism, extremism and xenophobia form the crux of society’s difficulties. Nationalism can be just as dangerous as religious extremism. Religion happens to be a frequent tool used by the masses to remove a sense of responsibility for their actions and to maintain an ethnocentric worldview that devalues those who do not belong to their faith of choice. This mob mentality is sometimes manipulated by the world’s leaders. If religion were obliterated, we’d still have many ethnicities, nations and the like to swear allegiance to. In addition, there would still remain an inclination in many individuals to pursue some “Greater Than”, as it were. I don’t think it would be long before those individuals began to organize.
To give an example of how human nature is more at issue than religion, I’d like to point out a sub-group of atheists with a background in fundamentalist forms of Christianity. They come to feel that the triumphalist dogma and arbitrary rules of of the society that raised them are wrong. These individuals reject Christianity entirely. But they’ve missed the mark. Instead of giving up their absolutist tendencies they become hardcore reductionists and anti-religion missionaries.
Type 18
Nov 21st, 2007
“People of religious faith are delusional (see Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion). To support such a delusion is immoral. Religion is *the* major cause of societies problems today. If you want people of different religious faiths to get along – the first step is to stamp out religion.”
You’re missing the point Dawkins was trying to make. He wasn’t arguing that we should remove and extinguish all religion, he was pointing out the reasons why he does not believe in God (which I happen to agree with) and why God should not be considered within the realm of science, and also provided reasons why religion is a source of much destruction. What he advocated was that religion should be made to be more liberal and tolerant.
After all, there’s nothing wrong with some of the ten commandments (thou shall not kill is a pretty good although obvious one) and some of the passages in the Bible are considered some of the finest pieces of literature. Problem is when people treat it as an excuse to discriminate and kill people, and that’s what Dawkins is proposing we should destroy in religion.
@like, umm
Nov 22nd, 2007
Okay, little test to see if it’s really religion that causes problems, and to show you how stupid that notion is:
Picture a world filled with people like today, without any religion or laws which were derived from that (like the thou shalt not kill one)
Would there be problems? yes!
Picture now a world with all religions, and no people whatsoever.
Will religion cause problems?
I think in the first world there will be a lot more wars and such.
Religions don’t start wars.
humans who use religion as an excuse, do.
Like Mr. Bearded man in the Afghanistan caves, and Mr. stupid man in the US big white castlehouse.
(his religion is patriotism… tho he misuses the Christian religion as well as fear for his goals)
like_ummm
Nov 22nd, 2007
“Religions don’t start wars.
humans who use religion as an excuse, do.”
So you are saying – “without religion these people wouldn’t have an excuse to start wars”? I agree. They also wouldn’t have an excuse to murder abortion doctors, to bash fags, to imprison women for being raped… etc. etc.
Religious people tend to assume that a society without religion has no morals or laws or whatever – this is false. We don’t need some god threatening to burn us in hell to realise that we should not kill eachother. Also – the thought of a god that supposedly loves us but will have us burn in hell for eternity if we do anything wrong is morally repugnant.
Why Bother
Nov 23rd, 2007
So basically, you’re saying that the morals people who have religion hold true are repugnant, but your atheist morals are the only true ones and everyone must be like you? Double-check your books, kiddo, that’s the definition of intolerance.
@like_umm
Nov 23rd, 2007
“So you are saying – “without religion these people wouldn’t have an excuse to start wars”? I agree. They also wouldn’t have an excuse to murder abortion doctors, to bash fags, to imprison women for being raped… etc. etc.”
Wow. You managed to entirely miss my point.
Which was, that without religion, we will find other excuses to kill eachoter, not that we will stop killing eachother, or even kill eachother less.
The main important message of the Christian bible isn’t “Do even the SLIGHTEST thing wrong and you will BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY” as is often assumed, but to simply love eachother.
Why then, you might say, it says that you will burn if you’re for instance, gay?
Well, it doesnt. In Leviticus, it indeed says that its an ‘abomination to god’.
It also says, that eating shellfish is an abomination to God.
However, reading further, these rules for survival of the species thousands of years earlier, are recalled, updated so you will. In a vision, one man, recieves a blanket full of food which according to the old rules, he cannot eat, a.o. pork. With that, the message from God, take, and eat from this. No he says, I cant as you said I couldnt.
Blanket goes up again, and a while later returns, witht he same food and same message: this time, God literally tells him it’s okay to eat from it.
Theres a LOT of things in the bible, that when taken out of context and looked at literally, indeed seem to justify for example killing of those not entirely exactly following the rules, or for instance, the God created everything in 7 days.
BNut, you shouldnt take it out of context, and not look at it literally. There is one very important message in the bible
if you take the time to try and discover it, which is simple:
Love thy neighbour like you love yourself.
And that doesnt mean the guy living next to you in the same street, but it means everyone on the entire planet.
Ergo, someone starting a war or killing a ‘fag’ because the bible says so, didn’t get the message.
Religion is something that people have to make sense of the world, to have something to fall back on if everything seems to go downhill to the point that they see no more reasons to go on at all, and an important guide to living together peacefully.
I am a Christian myself, and also a fag. My god is one of love and caring, not of hate and killing. God won’t send me to hell for having sex with another man. I love my boyfriend, and that is the important part.
Francoise Fairey
Nov 23rd, 2007
Religions are to use a very Christian phrase, “broad churches.” They have there fair share of hard-liners, but so does politics, science (e.g., Dawkins), and IT. Religions also have those who stand for peace, such as the monks of Burma or Christian peace activists in Northern Ireland. On SL, churches such as Koinonia United Church of Christ (Xenia 159,117,37) promote fully affirmative attitudes to all races, sexualities, etc. And in early December a new magazine will come out Walking Barefoot in Life, which will be aimed at those Christians who are Bisexual, Lesbian, Transgendered, Gay, or Inter-Sexed. Religion is what you make of it, you can make it an excuse to hate or you can allow it to be an inspiration to love and respect even those who hate you.
Why Bother
Nov 23rd, 2007
“So basically, you’re saying that the morals people who have religion hold true are repugnant, but your atheist morals are the only true ones and everyone must be like you? Double-check your books, kiddo, that’s the definition of intolerance.”
Don’t know who posted this using my name, but it was not me. Here’s a suggestion, get your own name and don’t use someone else’s to make your points. TypePad sucks.
Archie Lukas
Nov 23rd, 2007
I’m all for tolerance, peace, harmony and love expressed thru art;
but why do people assume it has something to do with religion?
Most the death, war and distress in the RL is in the name of religion; it really doesn’t matter whos’.
I won’t touch the stuff -far too dangerous.
I’ll just stick with tolerance, peace, harmony and love and my art.
like_ummm
Nov 23rd, 2007
“that’s the definition of intolerance.”
Intolerance is not always a bad thing. With all of the evils that religious beliefs cause in the world it seems pretty obvious that intolerance is entirely appropriate.
But then Religion holds a special place in society in that it is supposed to be immune to criticism. This is why religious people end up doing whatever crazy shit they want to.
like_ummm
Nov 23rd, 2007
“They have there fair share of hard-liners, but so does politics, science (e.g., Dawkins), and IT.”
yea right – like dawkins or some IT nerds go around pilotting plains into skyscrapers or whatever. Non-religious people tend to promote their point of view via reasoned and rational argument. If you don’t accept it – they aren’t going to murder you, stone you, condemn you to eternal damnation etc…
As for moderates – they believe in the same things that the hard-liners do. But do they have the guts to speak out against their own religion? No – they prefer to toe the party line with statements like “religion is what you make of it”.
like_ummm
Nov 23rd, 2007
“without religion, we will find other excuses to kill eachoter, not that we will stop killing eachother, or even kill eachother less.”
1000′s of years ago south-american religions would brutally sacrifice children in the name of their Gods. Have those societies found different ways to murder their children today? The answer of course is no.
Francoise Fairey
Nov 25th, 2007
like-ummm, scientists do not pilot planes into buildings they build atom bombs and gas chambers, as Robert Oppenheimer (atom bomb project leader) is reputed to have said, “Physicists know no sin.” And if you think moderates do not speak out against hardliners in their religions then you obviously spend too much time in SL, you should try watching the News someday, there is a real world out there.
anon
Nov 25th, 2007
“and why God should not be considered within the realm of science,”
No he didn’t, stupid, you obviously didn’t read the book. In the first chapter he talked about how God is a scientific hypothesis and should be treated like one – it doesn’t get a free lunch just because people say it’s “religion”. To Dawkins, God is in the realm of science – and it’s bad science, pseudoscience, a hypothesis with no supporting evidence.
Why Bother
Nov 26th, 2007
Just why is your Dawkinsanity better than Christianity? At least the Christians can forgive their sinners.
Just sayin'
Nov 26th, 2007
DID you know:
that Albert Einstein believed in God?
Darkfoxx
Nov 26th, 2007
Religious extremeists, like the people who flew the planes into the WTC, are very very dangerous.
At least as dangerous, are extremists of another form, for instance, anti-religious extremists.
A good person, wether religious or not, will see that fighting about religion and the problems it causes or not, is a very moot point.
Religions don’t matter. What does matter, is how we all behave towards eachother.
Fighting about things like religion, is NOT how we should behave.
Instead of bickering “your religion is bad cause it is causing wars!”, let’s give the GOOD example. After all, an atheist that starts a war against religious people, is no better then a religious person starting a war against those of a different religion.
anon
Nov 26th, 2007
lol @ Just sayin’ <– TROLL ITT?
einstein believed in nature as god – pantheism. there’s tons of research on this subject pointing to the fact that he never believed in a god, go look it up.
DaveOner
Nov 26th, 2007
“1000′s of years ago south-american religions would brutally sacrifice children in the name of their Gods. Have those societies found different ways to murder their children today? The answer of course is no.”
Go to Salvador da Bahia (in Brazil) and walk around for a day and rethink the above quote. There are all types of street kids that do everything from steal to kill to prostitute themselves (the sickest shit I ever saw there) to survive because their poor and often strung-out parents (if they have any) say “don’t come back until you have some food or money for me”. If that isn’t considered a form of murder then we’re already lost as a species.
It’s all about power. Those who don’t use religion use philosophy, money, race or whatever else they can think of as reasons to exploit others.
Stop using your “lack of religion” religious beliefs to claim superiority over others. You’re prepetuating the very thing you claim to be against.
SqueezeOne Pow
Nov 26th, 2007
“A recent study showed that roughly 64% of Republicans don’t believe in Evolution. However over 70% of monkeys don’t believe in Republicans.”
“Do you think Einstein walked around all day thinking everyone was a bunch of dumb-asses? I guess we know why he built that bomb!”
“We’ll be okay. They’re just Nihilists.”
Just some quotes to add some relevance to the “religion is evil” discussion.
like_ummm
Nov 26th, 2007
DaveOner -
Mothers in Brazil are in that situation because of poverty, not because they are satisfying some innate urge that South-American people have to murder their children. For you to suggest such a thing is absolutely ludicrous.
You obviously lack reasoning/critical thinking skills. This is another thing that Dawkins talks about:
Religious children are fed so much crap when they are young (hell/heaven/walking on water, coming back from the dead etc. etc.) that they never develop the ability to think critically about things.
like_ummm
Nov 27th, 2007
Re: moderates
The teachings of ‘moderate’ religion, though not extremist in themselves are an open invitation to extremism…
While moderate Muslims may not truly believe that they are going to paradise when they die, extremist suicide bombers really do believe such a thing and it is this belief that motivates their actions.
Moderate Christians might think of the bible as being symbolic or metaphorical while an extremist will interpret it literally and commit evil in its name.
So, all you moderates out there who are defending your religious beliefs – you all have blood on your hands because you perpetuate the belief system that is the direct motivation for this or some other evil. And you will continue to have blood on your hands until you have the guts to speak out against the bullshit that forms such a large part of your belief system.
Why Bother
Nov 27th, 2007
Blood on our hands such as that of Hitler, Stalin, or Mao? Ask any historian, those would be the top three most evil people to ever live. And what did they have in common? A rejection of religion, and a strong evolutionist atheist ethic.
like_ummm
Nov 27th, 2007
You know what, fuck all of you stupid cunts. You just don’t get, it, do you. Your God is wrong. Repent of your foolish religions and join us in the True Word, as passed down by Darwin and Dawkins. You were a fucking monkey, and if you believe in something as retarded as a god, you still are!
Why Bother
Nov 27th, 2007
O.K. now, seriously, stop using my name. I don’t know who the hell you are, but you are seriously starting to piss me the fuck off.
like_ummm
Nov 27th, 2007
that last post by ‘like_ummm’ – 2:05am – was not me. it is a troll.
Darkfoxx
Nov 27th, 2007
I shall repeat again.
“Instead of bickering “your religion is bad cause it is causing wars!”, let’s give the GOOD example. After all, an atheist that starts a war against religious people, is no better then a religious person starting a war against those of a different religion.”
NONE of the people fighting here in this comments is one hair better then the others, religious or not.
I see a lot of hate here. And I think even the non religious folk here can see that that is not a good thing, mkay?
The whole reason for this installation and article about it, was to give the good example. The bitching and bickering comments here, are giving the bad example.
One does not need religion, or does not need atheism, to see that. One just has to get the stick out of their asses and LOOK AT ONESELF, not what others have done.
Who gives a shiot what Adolf Hitler has done, or Mao, or whomever? The important part is how YOU live, that’s the only thing you have to really care about. If you do good, you make the world a better place.
Artemis Fate
Nov 27th, 2007
“Blood on our hands such as that of Hitler… …those would be the top three most evil people to ever live. And what did they have in common? A rejection of religion, and a strong evolutionist atheist ethic.”
“As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice” – Adolf Hitler
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” – Adolf Hitler
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” – Adolf Hitler
Why Bother
Nov 27th, 2007
“O.K. now, seriously, stop using my name. I don’t know who the hell you are, but you are seriously starting to piss me the fuck off.”
Actually it gets pretty bad when multiple people are using MY name and then one of them gets pissy about others using it while they are using it. Now THAT I find quite funny.
As I said, TypePad sucks. I’m not going to even say to stop using my name because at this point it’s pointless, but by now it should be evident who is the real “Why Bother” and who isn’t.
Carry on with your dribble…
Why Bother
Nov 27th, 2007
Oh, and by the way, good observation there Artemis.
Darkfoxx
Nov 29th, 2007
Indeed a good observation from Artemis.
We all know Hitler thought he had God on his side.
We also all know, he was batshit insane.
The first, and most important law from God: Thou shalt NOT KILL.
And what did Adolf do? Millions upon million times over?
Not exactly grade-A Good Christian material, if you ask me…
A prime example of how horrible the results can be, if the bible is taken out of context and the message it conveys, completely missed.
You cannot blame any religion for what happened in WW2, nor can you blame it for whatever horrible things happened before, or afterwards, and still happens today.
Hate is it what brings people to destroy and kill.
Love is it what can stop people from doing this.
And my Bible, my God, preaches love, not hate. Something that is all too easily forgotten by both religious, as anti-religious people, sadly.
Judging someone on their religion, is just as horribly wrong as judging someone based on the colour of their skin.
Make love, not war.
Peace.
Artemis Fate
Nov 29th, 2007
@Darkfoxx
“The first, and most important law from God: Thou shalt NOT KILL.
And what did Adolf do? Millions upon million times over?
Not exactly grade-A Good Christian material, if you ask me…”
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
But if this charge is true [that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night], and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
It goes on and on, I don’t think any stern and simple rule like “thou shalt not kill” has had so many “except……” clauses.
Darkfoxx
Nov 30th, 2007
Yeah kinda shoulda seen that coming.
You can quote from all over the bible that will show you it’s not all love and peace indeed,
even eating shrimp is a mortal sin if you take it all literally.
Which is the mistake religious as well as anti religious people make all the time.
The same mistake that led Hitler to believe it was God’s will to have 6.000.000.000 jews, God’s people from day one, gassed.
Priotip: it’s not meant to be all taken out of context and literally.
Artemis Fate
Nov 30th, 2007
“Pro-tip: it’s not meant to be all taken out of context and literally.”
Well that’s the part where I have to ask, “Says who?” there’s nothing in the bible that suggests some parts should be taken figuratively and some literally, and since most Christians have decided to take the parts about God, Jesus’ death, etc. literally, and the parts about setting your daughter on fire for small infringements of social values figuratively (though what they could be a metaphor for I have no idea), but who says what to take seriously and what not? I hear all the time as the basis for the belief in God and Jesus is “Because the bible says so”, and obviously if they don’t even say that, they’re still alluding that they believe it, because they believe in God, Jesus, and the Crucifixions which is from the bible and nowhere else.
I’m not saying that we should institute capital punishment for swearing in front of your parents, but i’m asking: What reason do you have to say that the bible isn’t meant to be taken literally all the time, and that it’s a mistake to do so? For all we know, God could be up there in heaven FUMING MAD that you didn’t slaughter your entire hometown when you found out they were harboring a non-believer. Or that the Holocaust could have been a punishment for the Jewish people for eating too much shellfish.
All I’m saying is that it seems odd to pick and choose things in the bible to take literally with no real rhyme or reason, based on what the bible says, to choose one thing to take seriously and one thing to not. Really, you have to either treat the entire bible as a figurative work of metaphors and parables, which would mean God and Jesus are not real but a metaphor for some aspect of humanity (perhaps the prospect for greatness?), or you have to take the whole thing literally and get to murdering all the non-believers if you want to get on God’s good side.
Nikola Shirakawa
Nov 30th, 2007
Actually, I can’t quite remember the passage, but Paul said some statements to the effect of “Being virtuous is not about what you eat, but what’s in your heart.” In fact, specific parts of the New testament make it clear that a literal and strict adherence to the Old testament was no long nessecerry, specifically most of the laws regarding cleanliness and purity of which all of your quoted passages refer, Artemis. One of the main messages of the New Testament was the sacrifice of Jesus purified the children of God, and as such, old sacrifices and extreme punishments for sins were no longer needed. And let us not forget the famous “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” The events spoken of there were an exact adherence to these same Old Testament practices, and Jesus set the precedent that noone save for God was fit to make that judgment call anymore, and Jesus being God the Son forgave her, setting the precedent that the Old Testament capital offences were now mere sins that could be repented.