Musings from a Gorean Feminist: Gor is so Stupid
by Jessica Holyoke on 24/05/08 at 8:29 am
by Jessica Holyoke
Readers and people on the street have asked me about how I can reconcile calling myself a feminist and taking part in Gor. One reader came out and asked how I could condone and engage in rampant rape. This article is not about that, but sets the tone for later articles. This article is about the top five idiotic, infuriating things that occur on Gor in the Second Life world that are just crazy stupid. This excludes things in the books, such as you can’t use anything more advanced than a cross bow on Gor, but if you go over to Earth, you get disintegration beams and space ships.
(Keep in mind if you see me on Gor, I’m going to roleplay with the rules handed to me on the sim. It doesn’t mean that I agree with them. And if you bring this article up, you suck.)
Stupidity the First: Women are no stronger, at best, than a 12 year old boy.
Usually this one is mentioned when a City is moaning about Panthers and female outlaws and mercenaries. And yes, a 120 pound woman should not be able to easily pull a 250 pound man. However, the restriction makes it so that women cannot wield certain weapons, like swords and long bows.
Here is what I say to that: Did exercise not exist on Gor? No wait, it did! Do Muscles not get bigger? Pulling a long bow means you build up your strength over time, dumb ass.
And lets not forget the Earth women brought to Gor. For those not in the know, Gor is a smaller planet than Earth and it has a lower gravity. Ergo, Terrans, or barbarians, should automatically get a strength boost. Perhaps not for long as they become accustomed to the lower planetary mass, but at least for awhile. But no, they are still no stonger than a 12 year old boy at best.
Stupidity the Second: Any slave may be treated as determined by any Free.
The convention is that kajiri, male and female slaves combined, can be punished and treated as any Free desires. Commonly in laws available as you enter a sim, it is printed that any Free woman can smile or kick a slave girl in passing. If the slave doesn’t like it, she is not Gorean and she should leave. If the Owner doesn’t like, then they are not Gorean and should leave.
The hell? If slaves are property and no different than animals, then that means that anyone could kick my boat or kick my Tharlarioin, (rideable lizard). People get upset when you touch their things. This stupidty is one of those things where it sounds cool in a BDSM mind set but when you try to create a world which you live in, it’s just stupid. Like the following.
Stupidity the Third: Legal testimony of a slave may only be taken under torture.
In the books, slaves are fearful of being asked to testify in court because their testimony only counts if taken under torture. As of yet, I haven’t found how that actually happened in the books.
Because, its stupid. It sounds cool, again from a BDSM mindset, but in practice it doesn’t work. Whoever is doing the torture can make the slave say anything. And even if they provided testimony and lived, that doesn’t preclude them from being punished later. Like if a slave was told to testify against their owner, she could help her Master and lie under torture so she isn’t tortured later by her Owner. Its not a way to get truthful testimony. Torture presumes that there is information that you want or a behaviour you want to correct. The slave could tell the truth, but be tortured until when?
Stupidty the Fourth: There were no female mercenaries or Outlaws.
Many sims prohibit the appearance of any avatar that is a female fighter of any form other than a Panther. Captive of Gor mentions bands of female and male outlaws, then goes into Panthers.
So besides the fact that this is mentioned in the damn books, most places just can’t deal with a woman that can handle herself in a video game. ooooooo. My Mistress can kick your Master’s Ass.
Stupidity the Fifth : The necessity of typing a roleplay when aiding.
Battles do take part in Gor. Sometimes people are downed with a big capture bubble surrounding them indicating that they are captured or bested. In order to aid them, like a medic would, some sims require that you type at least two lines before pressing the Aid button.
So when people are just pressing a button to shoot at you, you have to come up with a nice little emote to say how you are helping the fallen. Here is the typing "/me kneels down beside the fallen warrior and carefully look him over *because its probably a guy lying there* looking closely to see if his airway is clear, he is breathing and if there is any massive bleeding." In the mean time, the person doing the firing is going click click click. So you could be captured really, really quickly while you are making sure that things are spelled correctly.
Honorable mention: Strange access restriction
This follows from the Mercenaries and Outlaws issue. Many times there are restrictions on travel. Panthers would not have been this far north, you can’t be of a certain caste, slaves would not be here unescorted.
Here’s the deal, I have yet to see a gorean city without a market. What drives sales? Traffic. so why would you say don’t come to my sim? There might be residential rentals, but to have a thriving market, you still need shoppers and for now at least, that means traffic under places.
And yes, people can go to the markets without going into the cities, but why go to any market if you can’t be in the City?
Counter Point Stupid Feminist Objection to Gor: No mention of Menstration.
One time, I went to a Feminist discussion regarding Gor. I was the Counter point. It was a fun two and a half hours. One of them, who I won’t name, said that the books were anti-women because no one ever got a period.
Now lets ignore whether or not slave wine or sip root, strong acting contraceptives, affect menstration. I didn’t read about people pooing either. It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And I dont know how Kara Thrace, Princesses Leia or Diana, handled their monthly visitors. It doen’t mean the Colonies, Jedi and the Amazons are anti-women.
Have fun in Gor everyone!
Restless Writer
May 30th, 2008
Here’s an idea, if you don’t like gore do the following:
Don’t talk to them. If they try to talk to you tell them to leave you alone, tell them why you don’t want to talk to them and mute them if needed. Don’t bother arguing with them. Remember you can try to bring an ass to water but you can’t make them drink. Or just mute them right away when they get into range of you. That way you don’t have to listen to the annoying simpering of, “yes Master-please master…” ect. Some get off and want attention so don’t give them yours.
If you’re browsing in a shop that is PG or isn’t geared to the D/s lifestyle, try contacting the land/shop owner and complain only if slave play is taking place. Exsample: “I came to your shop to buy hair not see some slave’s genitals, can you please do something about this?”
Remember, your land your rules. If you don’t like slave play, grow a spine don’t be afraid of losing few customers and ban it from your land. If goreans truly want us to respect their laws on how we act upon their land they best be prepared to respect ours laws upon our land.
Don’t by products from builders that are goreans or cater to them.
Don’t build products that directly cater to them. For example the silk market is already flooded with competitors who read the books so why bother?
Last one is a no duh. Don’t go to gorean sims. There are plenty of beautiful regions in secondlife without the stink of slavery, sexism, violence and soap opera drama over them. =)
Penance Sautereau
May 30th, 2008
My personal opinion based on 13 years now of RL BDSM experience based on “Safe Sane Consensual” is that Gor and BDSM are completely different animals. BDSM is mutually agreed upon power exchange wherein if you’re doing it right, it’s really the sub whose in control because they can stop it at any time. Gor is mysogeny personified where even if the play is consensual on SL or, Goddess forbid real life, it’s still based on the principle that women exist solely to serve and pleasure men, and can only be happy when doing so.
Love Jessica to death but that’s how I see it.
Mina Firefly
May 30th, 2008
I’m very happy that i’m a very fiesty and confident woman that doesn’t need to kneel to a man and kiss his feet and be owned by a man-whore to feel complete.
LOL hell no.
GreenLantern Excelsior
May 31st, 2008
“Wow I didn’t know the Green Lanterns were into masochistic fuckwitism.”
I started reading the Gor novels in the early 70s. I have all 26 of them. Along with a detailed depiction of slavery, John Norman created an incredibly detailed world with highly interesting, three-dimensional residents. The passages describing slavery became repetitive after a while, but the stories were always new and different and highly anticipated. Those unfamiliar with the novels read a few lines and belittle the writing style. But after the reader gets a few novels under his belt, Norman’s prose begins to fit like a comfortable sweater.
Who among you has never enjoyed something that most of your friends thought was stupid or wrong? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Restless Writer
May 31st, 2008
I’ve read several excerpts of his “books” on gorean websites. All I got to say is this. They are poorly written. George Lucas could write better dialogue with a head cold than John on a good day. And women orgasming at the thought of being branded by her master I feel is beyond is sick and wrong. Green try reading other books like (the first novel of the Catteni Series) Freedom’s Landing by Anne McCaffrey At least the characters have spines in that novel. They unite to fight back against the aliens that wish to repress them and never surrender in the face of slavery. Rather than fight amongst each other over land ect. One fact I think most Goreans overlook, they are ALL enslaved. Even the “free” ones serve to promote the “experiment.”
Witness X
May 31st, 2008
***throws a pile of stones***
Artemis Fate
May 31st, 2008
“One fact I think most Goreans overlook, they are ALL enslaved. Even the “free” ones serve to promote the “experiment.””
Hehe that’s a good point
I will agree with GreenLantern on one thing though, John Norman is pretty good at world building, he has these long realistic descriptions of animals and fauna on the planet, and societal customs of the cultures around, the languages, etc. They actually are pretty interesting, and there’s a feeling of not knowing what to expect with this place, since while it’s a similar version of some of Earth’s primitive cultures, there’s still the alien world element that pops up and does something crazy. It’s easy to see why a roleplay could be developed around it even without the focus on slavery, because he gives such a rich description of the life on the planet. Really, if Norman wasn’t such a sub-par writer, and if he didn’t focus so creepily much on the “beauty of slavery”, I think the gor novels could have been on that same pulp level as Conan the Barbarian (which had the same aura of slavery and submission about it, but often had no gender biases and hardly tried to pass it off as beautiful). That is: certainly not high literature, but fun to read.
It’s often though, that his especially terrible prose comes with the other annoying parts of the novels: his masturbatory slave philosophy, if you read the books, you can actually skip them wholesale and not feel like you’re missing much. In fact, it’s fairly easy to do, once you see a huge unbroken-by-paragraphs block of text, then it’s probably Norman ranting about “the proper order of things”, and you can just skip ahead, and not feel the lesser for it.
Penance Sautereau
May 31st, 2008
My personal recommendation for a vbook series dealing with a quasi-medieval alternate world is the Chronicles Of Prydain. Go find it. Better than Narnia and CERTAINLY better than Gor.
Winter
May 31st, 2008
Oh God… Penance is back…
Did someone leave the cage door open AGAIN?
Here, someone open a window to let journalism, intelligence and restraint fly back out – I’m going to go find a spoon to gouge out mine eyes.
Penance Sautereau
Jun 1st, 2008
I love you too Winter but I never left. And please dear, no one believes you know the first thing about journalism, intelligence, or restraint. Now be a good little Anne Rice fanboy and go back to Bourbon street for the tourists to mock. You’re hurting your economy being here.
ThisIsMadness
Jun 1st, 2008
This is the only thing worthwhile reading about Gor:
http://books.adultfanfiction.net/story.php?no=544176437
Amor et Ira
Jun 1st, 2008
What amuses me about Gor is that on Gor, women “naturally find their place and revel in it” meaning “enjoy being chattel to a bunch of sadistic “manly” men who also do everything they can to lie, cheat, and trick women into slavery”. If there were a bigger bunch of spinless morons, the men of Gor are who they are.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Jun 2nd, 2008
“…once you see a huge unbroken-by-paragraphs block of text, then it’s probably Norman ranting about “the proper order of things”, and you can just skip ahead, and not feel the lesser for it.”
Exactly – when there’s a long passage with master talking to slave, or two men discussing slavery, you can flip past it and pick up the story where it left off. In the later novels, you would only be reading half the book that way.
“This is the only thing worthwhile reading about Gor:”
Thank you for posting that link. The story is just wrong, so wrong, but it is well written in its Gorean gay bejeweled biker modalities, so to speak, the Caste of Scribes being the writers of such things, in their way, which is the way of those who write, being Gorean, as it were. Funny stuff.
“What amuses me about Gor is that on Gor, women “naturally find their place and revel in it” meaning “enjoy being chattel to a bunch of sadistic “manly” men who also do everything they can to lie, cheat, and trick women into slavery”.”
Maybe you could provide a few examples of this, because I don’t recall any man in any of the novels saying “Here, let me snap this collar around your neck. It will keep you warm at night, and it wards off demons. (snap) GOTCHA!” Women in the novels were either forcibly enslaved or they submitted themselves for enslavement. They weren’t tricked into it.
romo
Aug 6th, 2008
if i agree with most of the things here one get me upset. The fact of someone who don’t have a clue of what BDSM is really use it as an example. BDSM is based on love, trust and faith between two people, BDSM is not torture, or abuse: submission is WILLINGLY given,BDSM respect limits of the sub, and most important, respect is one of the bases.
Ville
Oct 2nd, 2008
I read the first and part of the second books before I just set them aside and used them as coasters.
Norman’s a badass in the classroom (from Vids, I don’t live in NY), but his writing is nothing short of vapid. The subject matter he was trying to convey was a pretty decent one, but not one that should be followed as a way of life…
I saw that people actually took to it and almost choked laughing so hard. Gor is what it is: Science Fiction from a guy who doesn’t even follow it himself. It’s as if Norman wanted to step outside his normal writings and try a Nietzsche two-step for a fun splurge. If you look at the patterns of his book releases, it’s like his fun side hobby.
Now, none of this is meant to be offensive, take it moreso as an outsider’s perspective before you go getting all flustered and having to plead your little heart out to show me interweb justice lol. If anyone should have taken to the books I’d have thought it’d be me. I’m larger than average (Nature gave me a good frame, and I built on it the hard way), a former active Marine (Alpha 1-1), a semi-accomplished go getter (I’m not trying to act rich, but I do make quite a bit more a year than most 25 year olds) and I have alot of interaction with women. I don’t need any incouragement or sense of empowerment from a Science Fiction work whose author is still bewildered that people follow it. Sorry, but I’m strong of my own accord.
Now, a friend of mine does see into Gor. He’s my age, slighlty more financially accomplished than I and a wonderfully brilliant guy. Nothing short of awesome talking to him, he’s been a friend since grade school. He just got married, just had his first baby girl. He’s got the car, the house, all of it. However, that’s where the cool shit ends. His wife subtley runs him (he’ll never admit it, but watch him say one thing, then be pulled aside so his ‘slave’ can convince him of another), he has to run after her anytime she gets mad and quietly throws a hissy fit. The man’s so wrapped up in the dellusion that he is indeed master of all things near him that he doesn’t know how to react when presented with someone who is sure of themselves.
It’s sad to see, really. I’ve got 4 people I know simular to this; all diving to the books for a powerful example, but lacking in the real approach to it. I think it’s pitiful. Pathetic. I mean, at least look to Dune if you wanna go following SciFi lol. It’s much more awe-inspiring and far better written. Or better yet, look to yourselves. Find what makes YOU strong without having to assimilate the ‘Gorean’ model dreamt up by a bored Professor.
On women: Here’s a subject I bet will see some recourse lol! SO, women are slaves, and submissive in nature. Not as strong nor as wise as the male.
Hmm… Well, this is often true, honestly. You see far too many women driving around in their pink Volkswagon Bugs chitchatting on their husband-bought cellphones while they sip Starbucks at the local mall. Don’t see anything wrong with that? lol But if you’re the master of her, then why not have her improve herself? Don’t be a weak sissybitch, get your ass out there and become the top of your potential.
To be strong takes true work. I don’t mean training your woman to respond to poses, I mean getting your soggy ass out there and hitting a gym. This bolsters physical prowess, rendering you more capable. Still not sure of your frame? Try boxing or grappling. It won’t make you invincable, but at least then you’ll be hardier for your efforts and at least SEMI-capable of defending yourself. Tarl wasn’t a punk, and I bet not half of you are anywhere near his prowess (mind the fact that he’s Gorean heh). Not only that, but on Gor the weapons of the trade are pretty well practiced by all who might need to use them. How many of you can say you know how to fire a weapon accuratley? How to use a knife to defend yourselves? How to maximize your efficiency in a hot spot in order to protect yourself and your woman like you claim you could? Be honest! (and if I ask you for a youtube presentation, you’d better not bitch out lol!)
My point to this ever-so-long ramble is this: None of you are a ‘master’ of shit. You’re crazy if you even think of calling yourselves ‘master’. Why? Because Mastery can’t occur externally until you can master yourselves. In this theology, the master should provide for and protect, and I’d be willing to be there aren’t very many of you who could even approach my wife and have her submit lol. She can probably shoot and defend herself better than you can (what can I say? haha so I guess she’s not a fair example). So beleive in what you want, but at least be able to seriously back the methodology of it all. Hell, I’m probably closer to Gorean than most of you reading this, and I find that sad.
SO, feel free to contact me to discuss any matters that arise from this, and I’ll grant you an ear. I’m not picking at ya, and I’d be more than willing to listen if you decide you’d like to regale me with a response. Happy Reading, and lemme know if you need any advice in gaining real strength:)
-Ville
Einar
Oct 23rd, 2008
I just always find it interesting how few people that go on and on about how evil and stupid Gor is actually know anything about it, know anything about the author, the fact that most of it is actually based on history and philsophy from our own world (the concept of natural slavery being espoused by Aristotle in his Politics) or have ever read one of the books. What other subject or group of people would it be okay to speak about out of a place of such utter ignorance? Apparently tolerance is selective for the self-righteous correct.
Aroboky
Oct 23rd, 2008
Ok, for one, if you take anything personally in SL, you have problems. Big ones.
There are far sillier, more disgusting and repulsive things in SL than Gor (animal genitalia!)
Everything in Gor is consensual. (ctrl+shift+H, alt+F4, ctrl+Q)
What’s wrong with a bunch of guys playing as girls raping and dominating each other? Well, a lot, maybe. But it’s damn funny. Two fat guys in basements doing that to each other.
The real problem with Gor, for me, is it’s total lack of realism. Some things are ok, SOME(some, not much) RP is actually pretty good. Most people don’t look the part, at all. Lot’s of sad faced, big crying eyed guys with swords(most of Sl anyway). Haha! The rapid fire, infinite ammo bows…wth.
Even if you could fire that fast, and pull arrows out of your invisible bag of holding, your string-arm would fly off. Seeing as the ridiculous, capture for nothing panthers can rapid fire bows, they could wear armor. Although, I’ve read no one in the books wears armor, save for a shield or helmet. I could be wrong though.
Swords, by design, are NOT heavy. If they were, they wouldn’t be functional. So yeah, a woman in good shape should be able to wield one same as a man. It’d only get easier.
So may long posts! Sometimes I think people went afk when really, they’re writing a damn book!
temptress
Oct 26th, 2008
Well, I found this whole thing, though I did not read the whole damn page, to be very interesting to say the least. I am a woman, that roleplays online in gor. I am also a submissive woman in real life, and I love it.. However, the roleplay aspect of it all, is just fantasy. Nothing more, and nothing less. If your going to kill off my character for being a disobedient slave, so be it, I will just come back in a few days, maybe not to your so called home, but to another one, because I like the roleplay.. To me, I would rather be typeing something out in a chat room, then playing a game like World of Warcraft, or WarHammer. Ohhh heaven forbid that I roleplay a slave.
Slavery is outlawed, yes, but you can not stop what is in someone’s heart.. Yes, I like the right to vote, or work for that matter, but life would be so much easier if I were fuqing born in the Little house on the prairie time. ~lol~
Anyways, to each their own.
quasi
Nov 18th, 2008
Gor is a waste of real life time and the people you interact with are a waste of real life time. Do yourself a favour and interact with real people, you won’t regret.
Leto Albatros
Dec 20th, 2008
I was in SL for almost a year before I heard of Gor, or collars, for that matter. Utter nonsense, and very offensive to me. Has really spoiled SL for me.
Sheraka Sirnah
Jan 1st, 2009
Hey hey
Somebody left the kennel door open, is this a slave revolution? /me shouts: “GUARDS…”
Shiftingwind
Jul 16th, 2014
Several times in this article the author refers to a “BDSM mindset” as the catalyst and context and justification for Gorean beliefs and practices that she considers to be stupid. For example;
“In the books, slaves are fearful of being asked to testify in court because their testimony only counts if taken under torture. As of yet, I haven’t found how that actually happened in the books. Because, its stupid. It sounds cool, again from a BDSM mindset, but in practice it doesn’t work.”
What the author fails to understand is that Gor has little if anything to do with BDSM at all. Gor is a work of fiction and the product of extremely poor writing. Gorean philosophy does not embrace the concept of consensual power exchange and in fact eschews the idea of using domination, submission, bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism for pleasure as mental illness.
Perhaps the author needs to consider how self revealing her accusations of stupidity are and try to learn just a bit more about Gor and BDSM before attempting to pose as an expert on these subjects.