Op/Ed: Sarah Palin: The View From Gor
by Jessica Holyoke on 01/10/08 at 11:19 pm
Gorean slave masters expected to vote for Palin
by Jessica Holyoke
Now that Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is running for Vice President on the Republican ticket, many groups are asking what will this mean for them: the liberals, the feminists, the inside the beltway crowd, and the business as usual oil fat cat crowd. But a key demographic has not yet made up it’s mind – and the Gorean vote may be crucial in this election. So allow me to break down the positions for our Gorean friends and neighbors.
Foreign Policy: As the Priest Kings have decreed, the sea west of the Thassa is unknown and uncharted territory, much like the other side of the Bering Straight. We all agree that any Goreans who have been near the sea are certainly foreign policy experts, like Sarah, so there is a natural sympathy that should help Ms. Palin in her quest for the Gorean vote.
While Gorean slavers might like to obtain Earth women as their slaves, many of them don’t like going to Earth and only recently obtained passports – if they leave their home world at all – another parallel. Will the barbarians of Washington be too much for the Proud Alaskan? What about the foreign world that is Canada? Again, Gorean foreign policy and experience is similar to Sarah Palin’s impressive qualifications in this area. Russia is a next door neighbor to Palin’s Alaska, but no one NO ONE mentions Canada as another bordering country, with two distinct foreign languages. Doesn’t that make Palin a double expert? What’s that aboot, eh?
Nothing should make a Gorean more proud than the likelihood of continued war over natural resources. So Sarah’s idea of having Georgia and Ukraine join NATO is a natural – even though they have nothing to do with Europe, and will in antagonize Russia while Russia controls most of the energy for those self same NATO allies.
Charity: While most Goreans believe that charity is done only through Caste, Ms. Palin believes that charity, true charity begins in the House. The House of Representatives that is – as Alaskan receives more subsidies than any other state.
Economic Policy: All you need are many caste members with the necessary skills and the markets will take care of themselves. Nevermind cheaper goods or cheaper caste members flowing in from foreign shores, or that the higher caste members are getting richer by using slave labor abroad and not allowing for future opportunity for lower caste members to advance domestically – its all the free market – and the Free Market is a Priest King you don’t want to piss off ever. Except if the Merchant Caste ties up credit with worthless paper (care for some collateralized virtual land tier debt obligations, anyway?) secured by sub prime mortgages (Ginko Financial L$ spacebuck deposits) and then the Merchant Caste wants $700 billion dollars in order to maybe bail themselves out but it doesn’t really help anyone else, then the Free Market is OK to ignore. Gorean slave master are not going to have any problem with this sort of thing.
Rape: This one is a tricky one. After all, while *rape* sort of occurs in Gor (no one really gets *raped* and the word gets out in weird ways, I’m looking at you panfurs), it is relevant to Palin. CNN reports the former Mayor’s police chief charged rape victims for the rape kits used to gather evidence. While the Police Chief did state that perhaps instead of the city paying for the rape kits, the criminals should, that wasn’t the policy at the time. (Illinois had a similar policy.) Doesn’t this sounds like Gorean justice?
The other issue is that Palin believes that abortion should only be allowed in cases where a medical doctor determines that the life of the mother would be endangered if she carries the baby to term. This also means that if a mother believes she needs an abortion to save her life, and the doctor disagrees, then the mother’s decision is overruled — so the decisions of the Green Caste are more important than the decision of the woman whose life is in danger.
Role of Women: This is the odd feminist position. After all, Palin’s gender was a factor in being selected as the nominee for vice president, but she doesn’t align herself with normal women’s issues, such as countering McCain’s position that women just need to be more educated to make up for any pay disparity between men and women. The Chronicles of Gor are anti-feminist – by anti-feminist I mean that women have a certain role, one more submissive to men. In many ways, Gor’s interpretation of the role of men and women is similar to fundamental Christianity. And while Todd Palin is First Dude and Ms. Palin is the one who will be one heart beat or tumor away from the presidency, I don’t see her anywhere near the lines of traditional feminists. Less Gloria Steinham, more Phyllis Schafly.
Is it any surprise that overall, Palin is the most Gorean-compatible candidate?
Humpedback Camel
Oct 2nd, 2008
uhm, who cares about gor? Really…
Tizzers BnT
Oct 2nd, 2008
SHOCK, Goreans are right-wing! Who’d have thought it!
Alyx Stoklitsky
Oct 2nd, 2008
How fitting that psychotic cultists should vote for another psychotic cultist.
Corona Anatine
Oct 2nd, 2008
can someone go out and Rape Sarah Palin till she gets pregnant
then we will see how quick she changes her mind on this issue
Rock Ramona
Oct 2nd, 2008
Brilliant Jessica!…starting to worry me,two days in a row ive read an article in the Herald and laughed and agreed with the writer…Ive actually heard rumours that Pat Buchanan,Rush Limbaugh and Bill ORielly all own Gorean sims,sooooo you could really be on to something,only way those kinda guys could get laid…damn,its gotta be true!!!
VIKING
Oct 2nd, 2008
FUCK POLITICS
Angel
Oct 2nd, 2008
Yawn
Corona Anatine
Oct 2nd, 2008
three comments
a ) would love to know which sims if any are owned /run by TV evangelists
b) does not Palins stance – - no abortion in cases of rape- not contradict John Ashcrofts statement that women who are raped cant get pregnant
c) does the republican support for gor ( or is it the other way round ) not show that American right wing politicians are not on the same planet as the rest of humanity
Witness X
Oct 2nd, 2008
We’re asked to believe that Palin is actually a legitimate responsible person who could run the country in the 3 out of 5 chance that McCain dies in office. McCain is a /b/tard, trolling the American public! LOLOLOL
Oh, and -
Intblubber: “You’ve fucked up your own reputation so bad I have to become you and post in your name now.”
Therefore Tizzers BnT = Intblubber.
marilyn murphy
Oct 2nd, 2008
people who claim to be feminists and hate mrs. palin should quit calling themselves feminists. they should instead truly label their important issue and name themeselve abortion rights party or faction or cabal or whatever. they are not feminists. the fact that mrs. palin has had a large family, a business, and has been able to serve in elective office really upsets some people. these weird attacks on her from so called feminists are strange.
i’m not sure how well qualified mrs. palin is to be our vice president. truly i just don’t know. but my concerns are with her abilities in that position, not all this personal rancor i see from people who are pro abortion.
my concerns are the same about the actual head of the opposing parties ticket. since mrs. palin has way more executive experience than he does, why don’t we see any interest in his qualifications and experience?
yes, lets examine her abilities and her qualifications. if you are pro abortion, object to her stance by all means. but calling her stupid, and claiming she is unfit to be a role model for other women is a bit over the top. her life looks happy and healthy. she appears to be good at what she has tried so far. is it true that only pro abotion women are fit to be leaders in our society?
interestingly, the national organization for women came out against mrs. palin. they claim that since she is pro life she is not fit to be a standard bearer for women. her accomplishments are poo pooed as very little, by people who have not accomplished nearly so much. so in order to fit a leadership role, according to the national organization for women, you must be a democrat, and you must be pro abortion.
N.O.W. needs to change its name to the democratic front for abortion rights.
personally i haven’t figured out if she is capable of being the v.p. with all the screaming and slander going on around her, it’s hard to find truth. she did not do well in a couple of interviews i saw her do, this made me a bit sympathetic with her, to be sure. maybe she is over reaching, but i am glad, truly glad, that a woman is once again running for vice president.
the democratic party let the media crucify hillary. it appears that the leadership of the dems just didnt want another clinton to run things. now the media is crucifying mrs. palin with some of the most outrageous rumormongering i have ever beheld in my life.
i wish the electorate would just take a deep breath and listen to her, and hear what she says and make a sound judgement based on the facts concerning her qualifications. has anyone reading this noticed that there are no parodies of the opposing candidates? no poking fun at the democratic ticket? well, now that hillary is off the stage. when joe biden claimed that roosevelt was on tv in 1929….nothing.
in my home we have been independents for the last several elections. we loved bill clinton, we voted for gore and then reluctantly for kerry when he was the only choice to vote for against bush. im not a wild eyed right wing republican. i just want mrs. palin to get some credit for what she has done, and to be judged accordingly. also, please get the facts straight, which is darn hard to do now what with all the amazing crap being thrown at her.
Jessica Holyoke
Oct 2nd, 2008
@Marilyn,
What facts are wrong in the above piece? Everything I wrote about I’ve gotten from numerous sources, I just didn’t provide most of them as it just upsets the flow of the piece.
Yes Joe Biden did put his foot in his mouth again with the FDR on TV in 1929 even though FDR wasn’t President then, Hoover was, and there was no widespread TV. But he doesn’t have as many policy issues to me as Palin does. And really with some of his sexist remarks before about Palin, tonight’s debate may go to Palin because Biden will mess things up.
I didn’t even touch taxes or the Iraqi, Afghani, and possibly Iranian and Pakistani wars.
Yes, I am pro-choice, even though I would never get an abortion. And Palin’s take and what I wrote about solidified that position for me. It really is who has control over our bodies. In Palin’s view, that control is given to someone who isn’t the woman who has to live with the decision, even if she was raped.
The feminist issue is a bit different. Should I support Palin, or Clinton for that matter, just because they are women? When Clinton was going through the primaries, I was asked if I supported her simply because she’s a woman. And while I do enjoy the idea of us having a woman leader, it doesn’t mean that those women were the ones I wanted.
Emily Bazelon has some more about it here. http://www.slate.com/id/2201330/
Of course you are talking to a feminist who takes part in Gor and who took part in escorting in SL, so to some feminists I am already not a feminist.
Yes, this is the first Herald political piece and it deals with one out of four top name US candidates. But frankly out of the four, Palin lends herself the best to satire.
And really, it just pisses me off that Canada is ignored when talking about Palin. I had to get that out there somehow.
Reality
Oct 2nd, 2008
Ok – I have a few things to say regarding abortion:
first off – I do not want to hear jack fucking shit from any females that may respond to this concerning my gender: I am male, and quite qualified to have an opinion on this matter thank you very much.
Now then: I am on equal footing when it comes to Abortion – My own view being one that both sides of the fucking fence should sit down, shut up and actually read and ponder.
Raped? sure, go ahead and have an abortion if you’d like to. There is no reason why a rape victim should be forced to carry a baby to term if they choose not to.
Serious health issues that may result in death should the pregnancy be carried to term? Yep – go ahead.
That is – however – where the line is drawn for me.
Teenage mother? I don’t give a damn what your reasoning is – you got into the situation, deal with it. You can place the baby up for adoption after it is born – and no, I do not give a damn if mommy and daddy would kill you if they found out you’d screwed the football captain but forgot to make sure you used protection. For that matter I do not care if they do not know you’re sexually active either. You may get into some serious trouble, but that is no excuse. Parents? Keep out of it. You do not get to tell them to have an abortion either. It teaches your little girl absolutely nothing. Boyfriends? They need to grow a fucking pair and stick with the girl they knocked up in the first place. You little fucks are part of the reason I am ashamed to be called a male.
That about does it for the major types.
Good day to all.
Amanda
Oct 2nd, 2008
This article needs more depth. Is there a split between Gorean Slave Masters and Gorean Slaves? Does Obama benefit fromm a kajira gap? What about the free women of Gor?
If your going to investigate who different SL communities support in the US election then I would imagine the BDSM community supports Obama. Who do the furries support? Are SL Militaries inherently rightwing?
This could get really stupid really fast.
Darien Caldwell
Oct 2nd, 2008
What does Canada have to do with U.S. Politics? You do know that thing about it being the 51st state is a joke, right?
marilyn murphy
Oct 2nd, 2008
@jessica:
oh, i certainly did not mean to imply that u did not have facts straight in what you wrote. some of it i just dont know if its correct or not. and its a parody/satire piece isnt it? as much anti gor as palin.
no, its not your facts i object to. i will feel mollified when a similar article about biden or obama or mccain is offered. the approach that shes a woman who does not fit the elite feminist view rankles me. i dont either. i have a family, i have struggled with the abortion issue for years. at least mrs. palin has the courage of her convictions, and had her baby when i think i would not have. im not that strong.
Witness X
Oct 2nd, 2008
And as stupid as that sounds, it really doesn’t hold a candle to the McCain campaign.
John “Kamekazi” McCain – any stupid stunt to get the voter’s minds off what’s really going on.
Mike
Oct 2nd, 2008
I’m an Independent and will probably not vote for either major party candidate, but just as Obama supporters seethed at the mention of Obama possibly being a Muslim, Palin supporters have every right to seeth about the flat-out lies that are being spread about her. Take this column in today’s Boston Herald, for example:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1122849
It points out that the entire “Palin rape kit” story is entirely inaccurate and untrue…yet, the media and many Obama supporters continue to push it.
Nywra
Oct 2nd, 2008
An interesting idea, but I wouldn’t think that if she did get into office she would be permitted to do more than sit and look pretty at press conferences. McCain would be her Master, of course, and therefore he would control her. Palin is no free woman, and to say she would be even close to one is a shame to all of the Women of Gor.
Of course, she can see Russia from Alaska, so maybe she will be useful.
Some Random Guy
Oct 2nd, 2008
tl;dr
No one should be organizing fake intarnetz roleplay groups into DEMOGRAPHICS. Especially such tiny ones. Polling the portion of Gorfags who play Second Larp about Palin is like asking janitors who like cleaning up litter in their spare time what they think about urban sprawl in developing countries. Not only does it make little sense, but nobody really gives a damn.
Velvet Bikcin
Oct 2nd, 2008
Actually the way your dollar has been crashing, we’ve been considering making you folks the 11th province…..
re:What does Canada have to do with U.S. Politics? You do know that thing about it being the 51st state is a joke, right?
Posted by: Darien Caldwell | October 02, 2008 at 03:13 PM
Eva Ryan
Oct 2nd, 2008
Hold on, hold on…hold on.
Goreans don’t live on this planet…nor is the planet Gor a part of the US. So, they can’t vote. They have no voice. They don’t matter.
“…and if anyone says they are true Goreans, then I’m a fucking Klingon.”
Ranma Tardis
Oct 2nd, 2008
The criminals from Gor are not be welcome in the United States and most of the countries of the world. They come to Earth to commit the crimes of Kidnapping, rape, murder, slavery and are guilty of conspiracy to commit the above crimes.
They can go to countries like the Sudan to buy their women.
mootykips
Oct 2nd, 2008
Reality: just like intblubber, you could have just said “FUCK U I GOT MINE” and saved yourself the energy of writing a detailed & coherent argument.
Given the furries’ propensity for Nazi-themed art, I think their candidate of choice would be neither of the major parties (they might approve of who just got elected in Austria). But since Palin seems to want to expand the executive branch in that fashion, as she said at the end of the debate, and as we all know there is a large, often-mocked “confurvative” group in LiveJournal, I think they might lean toward the Republicans. But of course, we can’t legitimize their efforts to be taken seriously as a community, unlike the Goreans who are most certainly a “fandom”. While the Gor books might be hilariously bad, and people like IntBlubber read Rand in the same tier of literary quality, I don’t think furries have ever read anything but their own cybersex chats.
Tom Joad
Oct 3rd, 2008
I wonder how Palin views married women with kids who sell their pussies on weekends to rich guys. I’ll bet she doesn’t have a whole lot of sympathy for them, despite their sympathy for her…
Corona Anatine
Oct 3rd, 2008
Teenage mother? I don’t give a damn what your reasoning is – you got into the situation, deal with it.
yes reality
deal with it
but in the way that the individual girl or woman chooses not how the goverment dictates
forcing a woman to carry a baby to full term is no different from rape
deal with it
Debi Dastardly
Oct 3rd, 2008
Well I’m a feminist and pro choice and I don’t care who the Goreans in they’re unrealistic world is going to vote for. My vote will be for Palin because she is a fine example of what true feminism is all about. Not to mention I beleive in everything she stands for except the pro choice issue.
Luca Vasilopita
Oct 3rd, 2008
Wouldn’t the finest example of feminism be to not sit underneath a male as a candidate?
If anything, Palin is a fine example of militant ‘feminists’ who fail to understand that just like chauvanists, they have no place in modern society. The world is not about which race is better, and the idea of using your gender as a political aid is just stupid.
Feminism is Marge Thatcher, and look at what good she did for the U.K in the 80′s. She pissed off alot of miners, banned milk from school lunches, and decided that Argentina needed to get smacked back into line over their escapade in the Falklands.
The truth of it is that if you seriously consider feminism or chauvanism to be a valid reason to vote for somebody, you might as well move to ‘the Sudan’ as some retard posted earlier. What’s the point of a free and equal society if you’re using gender as a sort of political leverage?
I close by stating that I’m not even entitled to vote, therefor this opinion is from an outside observer. If I were going to vote, I’d vote for Jay Z’s dog…
Corona Anatine
Oct 3rd, 2008
depends on your definition of true feminism Debi D
depends also if issues like the environment and pushing for fairy tales to be taught in schools is less or more important
for a politician what lies between the ears should matter more than what lies between the legs
Alyx Stoklitsky
Oct 3rd, 2008
“My vote will be for Palin because she is a fine example of what true feminism is all about.”
Vapid women with no clue trying to pretend they know a thing about politics? And that they have experience in internation relations?
“Not to mention I beleive in everything she stands for except the pro choice issue.”
If you even KNOW what Palin stands for, then you already know more than she does!
Sigmund Leominster
Oct 3rd, 2008
Until we have Sarah Palin naked as the Post 6 Grrrl, I’m not interested. My vote goes for the party whose team has the biggest tits. Tragically, both parties are full of tits, assholes, dicks, and pussies, so the whole voting thing is a bit problematic.
I’m just happy there’s some eye-candy to take my eyes of this little side issue of having an economy built on too much credit and a bunch of politicos who are calling on “patriots” to agree to a $700 billion bail-out for “the good of the country,” while they themselves are stuffing their own barrels of pork into the bill. There’s so much dead pig being added that this would be an illegal piece of legislation in Israel and the entire Muslim world.
But just get Sarah to flash a smile and a little black-stockinged leg and you can pass me the hand basket for our collective trip to hell.
2cents
Oct 3rd, 2008
Last two elections, you guys fucked up massively.
Please, make the right choice this time not only for the USA, but also for the rest of the world. Bush didnt only screw over America, the entire planet has felt the burdon of another warmongering asshole in the White House.
In your defence, of course, I still believe the last 2 elections weren’t won, but bought… which of course on the other hand shouldnt have been an unfixable problem, after all the right to bear arms is in the constitution to be able to prevent these kind of things, not only in the past when it was the English, but also the present where it is the oil and arms lobby running and screwing over things.
Please, choose wisely.
Reality
Oct 3rd, 2008
Corona – allowing a teenage girl the easy option out unless she is the victim of a rape or would otherwise die if the pregnancy came to full term teaches them “Hey! It’s ok to go out and have unprotected sex! I can just abort my mistakes!”
Sorry, no. The teenager got into that situation and must now deal with the consequences.
We allow too fucking much in this country – each generation is coddled more than the last and allowed to do more things that are rather damaging as a whole than the prior generation.
Forcing a teenage twit who should have known better to carry a baby full term is no better than rape? What are you smoking? apparently someone, somewhere failed to teach you to take responsibility for your actions and failed to instill in you the ability to separate such nonsense out.
Rape is a Crime. It is forced sexual intercourse and is more often than not a power trip for the male or males involved.
While being stupid or careless is NOT a crime – it damn well SHOULD be.
Jessie decides to fuck Jim because he’s ‘hot’ and is the star quarterback of the high school team. she does not force Jim to use protection and she herself is not on the pill or using any other means of protection. Jessie gets pregnant because of it.
As it currently stands, Jessie can get an abortion and learn NOTHING from the entire experience. All she has really learned is that she can fuck whomever she wants – unprotected – and simply erase her ‘mistake’.
Now then, because she enjoyed the act of sex she is now fucking every guy in her class. every time she gets pregnant, she aborts. eventually however she fucks the wrong guy without using protection of any kind – despite her parents attempting to curb her habits or at least use protection – and now has the absolute worst STD: HIV/AIDS. she does not know this until it is too late and has already fucked several of her prior partners and passed this disease on.
On the flip side:
Jessie fucks Jim and gets pregnant. Because of the law I myself would like to see implemented she cannot get an abortion unless Jim raped her (this must be proven mind) or unless she could die by carrying the baby full term. Yes, her life becomes hell for the next nine months. However she can choose to give the baby up for adoption after it is born. What does she learn from this and from the trauma of the past nine months? She learns that, while pleasurable sex comes with a price when engaged in without protection – and redundant protection at that. she may well choose to fuck every guy in the school still but at the least she is doing it with protection and thus avoiding contracting most STDs. It is hoped however that Jessie does not become so promiscuous and is far more careful about who she chooses to be her partner – said partner being forced to use protection because Jessie does not want to become pregnant again until she is older.
Harsh? Yes.
The same as rape? No.
Sometimes trauma is good as a teaching method where all others have failed. If this sort of law were implemented, eventually the teenage pregnancy rates in a given generation would drop. The longer such a law is in effect, the lower the rates go – especially once Jessie’s friends realize that they too would be made to carry the child.
While you might not agree with the policy I would like to have implemented – if you are going to refute it kindly do so with a logical argument and not with some bullshit reasoning that equates such a lesson above with rape. If I could, I’d have reached through the monitor to slap you for even daring to think such a preposterous thing.
I have a few friends who were the victims of rape. I also have a few friends who were forced to carry a baby full term (while they were in school mind you) and I can tell you: The trauma is NOT the same. I have actually gotten them together and talked with both sets of friends before concerning my views. Aside from one or two of those who were made to carry the baby, they agreed. Of course what also came up was what I believe to be a fitting punishment for a rapist: send him to prison – sure. However make certain he himself is raped each and every day for the duration of his stay in prison. In addition to this the final parts of the penalty for being convicted of rape are dependent on repeat offenses. One of the following would be done to any rapist that did not learn his lesson: At the end of his prison term, the rapist is put to death OR at the end of his term he has his genitals removed. If he somehow persists a third time after having his genitals removed, he is put to death. A slow death where the victim is offered the chance to torture the rapist in any way she feels like.
Come back to me when you have a logical argument to support your idea please corona.
Witness X
Oct 3rd, 2008
There’s a phrase that comes to mind. Ahhh, it’s on the tip of my tongue…
Oh yeah.
“The fate of the world hangs in the balance.”
That was it.
BJ Tabor
Oct 3rd, 2008
Was it mentioned Sarah Palin is a maverick?
Witness X
Oct 3rd, 2008
That’s it!
She is secretly [html]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(TV_series) James Garner[/html]
We
Oct 3rd, 2008
Did anyone ask what the goreans thought about anything, ever?
I don’t think I want political analysis from a people who see fit to let themselves be ruled by giant golden ants.
mootykips
Oct 3rd, 2008
hahahaha “reality” lives in a world where people get dozens of abortions and the foster care system isn’t a hellish disaster
what reality would that be? the one of the average SL-using middle-upper-class sheltered e-lib, where the ruled guilty are always guilty, everyone else makes poor decisions (hence the “reality” superiority complex), and moral issues are black and white. welfare is giving poor people money when they should just get a job, Itaq was justified because Saddam was a dictator, and we need to stop helping those uppity black people who flood Ivy League schools solely by existing, right?
cut off your own genitals.
Reality
Oct 3rd, 2008
well hello mooty dearie!
Seems that – as usual – you are purposely obtuse, just so you can try and make some witless comment and typecast a person as what you yourself are.
I live in a world where most parents are fucking failures when it comes to instilling any kind of values on their kids. Parents are too fucking soft on their kids these days.
Now – if you had actually READ what I have said so far dearie you would have seen that I’d rather there be FEWER abortions. Though I doubt anyone would have missed a classic Net Gen twit like you mooty dearie.
come back when you can actually participate in society.
mootykips
Oct 4th, 2008
thats a lot of words for “no u”
u mad, Max?
Reality
Oct 5th, 2008
Hmm? Did you say something Mooty?
Nope – just a small post that contains a bit of unintelligent internet child bullshit.
But to answer anyway dearie: Mad? No, I’m perfectly sane – thank you very much (sanity is subjective mind you). Now was I angry when I wrote my response?
Perhaps.
See – unlike you and your buddies – I judge people based solely on what I have seen of them and do not make such wild statements.
The sort of person you accuse me of being is the sort I’d love nothing more than to be able to feed them to starving cannibals … Along with twits like you who cannot be bothered to actually take the time to read and think before being the typical internet child.
Leave the internet memes in the trash bin when responding to me in the future Mooty – and only respond when you’re capable of actually being a part of society.
Reality
Oct 5th, 2008
Reality = Penance Seautereau
Carry on.
Anonymous
Oct 5th, 2008
This article bores me, Not relevant to the Average Britfag.
Jessica Holyoke
Oct 5th, 2008
Reality,
The reason why people are having problems with your argument is that it starts with faulty presumptions.
Getting pregnant and having an abortion, even if it doesn’t come to term, is a consequence. Women can have an abortion and “learn a lesson.’
Just because you get pregnant and bring the baby to term doesn’t mean that you will never have sex until marriage again. Some women just continue to have more babies.
Plus, what do you mean “prove rape”? Do you mean you want someone convicted? If not, do you mean that a woman has to show that its “more likely than not” or “beyond a reasonable doubt” that she was raped? Who do you have to prove it to? Is it a doctor? Is it a court? And part of what you’re suggesting is why many women are pro-choice when they would never get an abortion themselves. Why should someone else, anyone else, decide what to do to our bodies? (And don’t make an insurance company argument. That’s a question of payment. If money wasn’t a factor, no one prevents you from getting any medical treatment.)
And then your groups that you asked were rape victims and women who had babies. You didn’t say that they were women who were told they *had* to have the baby or that it was illegal to do anything else but have the baby.
So of course bringing a baby to term is not the same as being raped.
The point Corona was makign that being told that you can’t have an abortion or being told you have to have an abortion is still someone exerting control over your body. And if rape is a crime of power, then yes it is the same thing.
Plus you sound like you are making the argument that if Parents don’t teach their children the way you would like to have them be taught then the government should intervene. Most people are trying to keep the government out of our lives, not intrude into it.
(And lets see who follows up with that statement.)
Reality
Oct 6th, 2008
Jess, the friends I brought this to were rape victims and those who became pregnant while STILL in High School, whose parents made damn sure the pregnancy could not be aborted.
I am afraid I will have to ask you to go back and actually read that comment again Jess as you seem to have misread it. Nowhere did I state that the goal was to keep these girls from having sex until they are married. I said that it should at the very least teach them to use protection.
forgive this response jumping around – it is the early morning for me.
On the ‘logic’ presented concerning the policy I’d want enacted being equated to Rape …. Sorry but, no. to compare them on that level is to ignore the fact that rape causes a different sort of trauma than having to carry a pregnancy. corona’s comparison is irrelevant on several scales to begin with: Different trauma, let alone the fact that parents these days – with very few exceptions – seem to be more than willing to let their teenagers run free and unprotected. It has to stop.
Yes Jes, women can learn from having to have an abortion – teenagers of this generation cannot. Yes – teenagers are the primary targets of this sort of policy change.
Do I want the government to step in? No, I do not WANT the government to step in but I see no other choice – other than to just have the parents who could not give a flying fuck what their daughter was doing and would have aided her by giving her an easy out. Yeah – Abortion is not ‘easy’ but you know something? It is still an enabler for the sort of behavior that “Jessie” seems to be prone to.
I really do not give a damn about how sexually active teenagers are today. stopping them isn’t my goal. Getting the little fucks to actually think before they screw someone is. As is making damn sure they use the proper protection – and redundant protections if they really are smart – as well.
If I have missed anything – feel free to drop me an e-mail or an offline. I need to go get some coffee and get to my day.
Corona Anatine
Oct 6th, 2008
oh yes fine reality
females ‘have to learn a lesson’ about having ‘too much’ sex
and what would teach males that?
thank you Jessica for understanding my point
Corona Anatine
Oct 6th, 2008
Forcing a teenage twit who should have known better (than to have sex)
???
what planet are you on
so females who follow their natural reproductive instinct are feeble minded in your world view
if following the natural reproductive instinct makes humans stupid
then intelligent men must be extremely rare
Corona Anatine
Oct 6th, 2008
reality states
I also have a few friends who were forced to carry a baby full term
talked with both sets of friends
concerning my views
Aside from one or two of those who were made to carry the baby, they agreed.
so of ‘a few’ one or two disageed
that sounds like a high proportion of a ‘few to me’
only a male who will never have to worry about carrying a child would think up your veiwpoint
Corona Anatine
Oct 6th, 2008
asked a few friends
to be valid the sample has to be a bit larger than a few
for example
putting the question
‘ was hitler good’
would produce very different answers if put to a large sample of population or to juts a few neo nazis
your friends are presumbaly acquired from those who share your world veiw
so hardly a fair or valid sample
Corona Anatine
Oct 6th, 2008
asked a few friends
to be valid the sample has to be a bit larger than a few
for example
putting the question
‘ was hitler good’
would produce very different answers if put to a large sample of population or to juts a few neo nazis
your friends are presumbaly acquired from those who share your world veiw
so hardly a fair or valid sample
Corona Anatine
Oct 6th, 2008
two minor points
no sugestion that ‘reality’ is a facist is intended
however we are dicussing Gor – whose basics ethos is that ‘ might is right’ and that women are an inferior race