The Alphaville Herald

35 Responses to “Open Life Users Banned from Second Life?”

1. 

   George Zimmer, Founder and CEO of Men's Warehouse
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   FYI: The Lindens can’t ban for ShoopedLife as it is completely indistinguishable from the regular client in every way.

   However, the Lindens do have all kinds of tracking software in their version of the Second Life client, which is likely what is being used to track the users who are migrating to Open Life.

   We make it a point to strip all of this tracking software out when we create each version of Shooped.
2. 

   General Drama
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   I can’t say that the loss of Lalinda or Prok from the grid would be in any way a negative, other than a reduction in drama.
3. 

   Relic
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   Like Zimmer said above me, the shooped life client cannot be detected by Linden Labs. It appears as a regular second life client in all respects.

   Shooped life spoofs a myriad of data identifiers used to track the user for client user banning. Upon logging into a new account you have never logged into before, the shooped client takes all the normal variables that would be recorded and creates a whole new fake set which it saves for that profile. Instead of just sending random data on every login, looking suspicious and not to mention traceable, it custom crafts a unique false ID and uses it for that account solely.
   The only thing not spoofed by shooped life and traceable by linden labs is your application data cache folder, and your individual IP address. When linden lab feels the need to bring the ban hammer down hard they will often hash ban your second life cache folder. This can be fixed easily by going into your C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\SecondLife\ and deleting the folder called “cache”. The cache folder is just all the textures and object data downloaded by your client when you spawn in world so you don’t have to constantly re-download it, instead just recalling from your cache folder for rendering things you’ve seen already. The cache folder is rebuilt by merely logging into the game again, thus changing it. As far as your IP address, if you are on a cable provider or some DSL lines with DHCP, you should be able to change your IP. If not, well then proxies would be your only other option.
4. 

   General Drama
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   To quote someone who once said, “The killings will continue until morale improves.”
5. 

   Galatea Gynoid
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   Wow! This article is amazing!

   “According to numerous reports (none of which I will reference or link to), a number of people (none of whom I shall name) had been IP banned. It might or might not have been related to their behavior, or it might or might not have had something to do with the software they ran, which LL may or may not consider a TOS violation.”

   This is the best piece of FUD I’ve seen in years! Usually FUD articles have to at least reference a fact or two and make an assertion or two, but this manages to create FUD while citing no facts at all and making no actual assertions at all whatsoever! Bravo! Do you work for Microsoft, by any chance?
6. 

   Miley Stewart
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   The reports I got from OpenLife chat rooms which display account names, not avatar names, none of whom allowed me to use thier name. I can provide sources, but I omitted names because they added no constructive purpose, or credibility in this case.

   I also want to make it clear that this article was edited from the original text, mostly in nondescript ways, but for non-partisan honesty, I am reposting the first sentence of the last paragraph which was omitted here.

   At any rate, Linden is fully within their rights to ban accounts regardless of the reasoning behind the ban.

   I also did not use the word notorious to describe Lalinda Lovell, I simply stated the alleged reasons why she is noteworthy, without passing judgment in the article about her personality. The only other edit done was I used the word entrepreneur to describe Mr. Neva, not personality.
7. 

   Jumpman Lane
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   yup ive seen this. some gal imed me sayin her ijit bf was banned for “using software”. Guess i know what software it was.
8. 

   deadlycodec
   

   Feb 19th, 2009
   

   Nikola, the Second Life viewer itself is open source. Using other modified viewers in most cases does not mean a person is using “unauthorized software” either. Additionally, Linden Lab g-team members have stated that possessing Copybot is NOT against the TOS. This was something I heatedly debated back when I wrote a few copybot stories for SLH. Trinity Linden herself stated that possessing copybot will not get you banned. Using it to steal content will.

   Don’t forget that Linden Lab employees have been involved in the libsecondlife project from the start. Libsecondlife is the project that birthed copybot (and it’s reincarnation under the name Testclient). All known variants of Copybot originated from the libsecondlife (now called openmetaverse) project, including SLBot, where a bunch of talentless germans removed code that checked permissions and added a gui and code to force the program to verify that it was paid for by individuals using it.

   I couldn’t believe people actually paid for SLbot, which contained virtually no new functionality except for the fact that users actually had to pay to have more bots whereas the original testclient with the exact same functionality had no such restrictions. It was basically a scam where some unscrupulous assholes made very small modifications to someone else’s work and sold it.

   Sorry for my rambling. Docs have me on Dilaudid for severe pain related to my illness so I’m sorta loopy. I’ll be heading off to bed now. Later.
9. 

   SL- against Contenttheft
   

   Feb 20th, 2009
   

   Well,

   nice Promotion gag for OpenSim, the SL-Contentthief Heaven.
10. 

    Miley Stewart
    

    Feb 20th, 2009
    

    @Deadly

    You’re most likely right. I really on’t know anything about the technical aspects. I was simply theorizing on a possible reason for the Open Life bans, and the fact the open source viewers go beyond the parameters of the main client made it a plausible theory. I tire to corroborate with Linden Lab, but as I noted, I was unable to contact them.
11. 

    Boy Lane
    

    Feb 20th, 2009
    

    The Openlife viewer was made incompatible with Secondlife a while ago. That is by removing certain parts of the protocol such as the logging of local machine details that could be used to hardware ban you. I assume the users reporting to be banned try to connect with the OLG viewer instead of using a SL compatible viewer.

    It’s a bad move in both directions, there was a chance to have a common compatible viewer platform for many virtual worlds. LL opened the door for this by opensourcing their viewer. They would have no reason to lock that door again. Contrary to that other parties like OLG however try to benefit from opensource software such as Opensim and the SL viewer, change certain not really important parts, and try to make them closed source. OLG was kicked out of the Opensim community already for not giving anything back, in case of the GPLed viewer OLG simply violates the GPL license by not providing legally required source code of their viewers.

    I honestly understand if LL would block access for such intransparently modified potentially dangerous viewers. Even ShoopedLife provides their sources to the public.
12. 

    The Unrezzed Cloud of OpenLife
    

    Feb 20th, 2009
    

    Why on earth would anyone connect to SL with the OpenLife viewer? If it’s as full of holes at the OpenLife grid, I’ll pass.

    So far, OpenLife = gray prims, non-rezzing avatars, and missed TPs.
13. 

    Jumpman Lane
    

    Feb 22nd, 2009
    

    i’m gonna see if i can ghet that wierdo Prok banned forever once and for all!
14. 

    N3X15
    

    Feb 24th, 2009
    

    Just popping in to remind people that these people are probably getting banned for thinly veiled content theft or other shit that gets people banned (like not paying tier). People don’t typically go to OpenSim grids just to try it out; They go there when they are perma’d from SL or are sick of the way LL treats them.
15. 

    MI9
    

    Feb 26th, 2009
    

    ta rash.
16. 

    J Alaniz
    

    Mar 1st, 2009
    

    When I first logged onto OpenLife, about 2 months ago, I noticed when I was just looking at the similarities in Second Life vs. Open Life, one of the drop down toolbars made a direct reference to “contact Linden Labs”. Voila’. Thats when I realized that Linden Labs was also part of Open Life.

    Recently, I went into Open Life, and noticed that the “reference” to Linden Labs in one of the TOOLS windows had been removed. Ironic?

    C’mon guys, you think this isnt another Linden Labs publicity stunt? They are losing market share on Second Life, and need to justify these losses to their shareholders Being in marketing for over 15 years, what I would have done — is what they have done, under the radar — is to create another environment to initiate a market comparison between the two, i.e., price differentials, new technology processes, user ability, etc.

    Secondly, proprietary issues would have definately been challenged here – BIG TIME – since the interface is IDENTICAL (with very small “visual differences”) to that of Second Life. Has anyone really heard of anyone from Linden Labs suing the “pseudo creators” of Open Life for proprietary infringement issues?

    Trust me, Linden has their little fingers in Open Life.

    J. Alaniz
17. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Mar 1st, 2009
    

    It’s probably far more likely that they’ve been using the Linden Lab code base and just now got around to changing a menu label. No conspiracy here, move along, move along.

    These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.
18. 

    Anon
    

    Mar 5th, 2009
    

    Yes, this is exactly why i will never put any of my content (and I have a lot) on these SL copygrids. Security holes, as much as like swiss cheese got, make the whole operation too sketchy. All the smart content creators are staying away – its a fools game.

    Plus still no economy there in OpenLife & probably will never really be one – the dream that there will be an economy in OpenLife is the only reason they have any content at all (aside from all the stolen stuff).

    Some creators are desperate enough to give there work away for free over in OpenLife, hoping to win future business? Might as well go make a facebook app while your at it, no money in it.

    Fail.
19. 

    Archie Lukas
    

    Mar 15th, 2009
    

    Blimey
    thats an eye opener and real news!
    Well done Herald.

    For the record, I can’t be arsed to use Open/grid/life jobbie.
20. 

    Basha
    

    Apr 25th, 2009
    

    Wow…I’m glad I found this page. I am a Second Lifer and I am concerned with the changes Linden Labs. I am thinking of leaaving SL and going to Open Life. Now I wonder is there really a difference.
21. 

    Argent Stonecutter
    

    Apr 28th, 2009
    

    I’m an ex-SI user. When I started using it, SI would not back up or restore data to other grids, and wouldn’t back up or restore full perm items unless you were the creator. When they started talking about changing this, I quit using it, because I was concerned about the inherent ToS violation in treating “Full Perm” in Second Life as authorization to transfer content across grids. The ToS doesn’t even grant Linden Labs the right to do that!
22. 

    Anelise
    

    May 7th, 2009
    

    In response to Jumpman

    “People don’t typically go to OpenSim grids just to try it out; They go there when they are perma’d from SL or are sick of the way LL treats them”

    Very not true. I along with most of the people I know have checked out Open Life just to.. check it out. Why wouldn’t we? To suggest the only reasons were those listed above is a narrow vision.

    My issue after taking a look around was the amount of content theft I saw already in existance there. I, like many other content creators, find that the one thing that will keep us away.

    As for Second Inventory. I would highly doubt Linden Labs would ban anyone for its use unless they had substantiated reasonable proof that content from SL had been illegally transfered to OG using the program. The easier and more thorough alternative would be to ban its sale from both Second Life (inworld) and Xstreet (formerly slx). That would basically cut the sales access to near nothing thus disabling the developers of SI from continuing to function financially. The majority of people find out about Second Inventory from their presence in Second Life.

    Linden Labs doesn’t afford a reasonable means to back up inventory which has full permissions. This is a viable alternative which saved them the headache of creating one themselves. And the loud cries regarding lost assets was both long .. and very loud. It is to their benefit to allow such a program to exist and would be a case of biting off their own proverbial nose to begin banning SI users. Responsibility for how the backed up content is used remains that of the user. Linden Labs certainly isn’t the virtual world content control police nor should they be charged with that task. The content creators have the DMCA to look to for that. Programs such as Second Inventory shouldn’t be faulted either.

    Good programs + decent people = Good stuff
    Good programs + thieves/doops = Issues

    The difference is in the users and there will always be some of both.

    Neither program allows in their TOS or TOU for transferring anything other than content a person has created themselves or has explicit permission to another grid.

    I’ve often wondered at this shifted responsibility perception. Following the written TOU and TOS is a user end responsibility.. period.

    In any environment such as SL there will be those that create conspiracy theories. Usually founded only in half thought out assumptions and half truths. The idea that LL has a team of double agent spies in OG simply to seek out those that might be in both also seems hole riddled. They may have a team in place that watched for stolen content however and that would not only be expected.. but I’d think.. accepted.

    I haven’t seen a mass migration to OG by SL users which suggests LL would have a need to fear the so claimed competition it presents. Maybe one day, but for now, for the average user, OG doesn’t compare to SL.. even with its handfull of issues.

    I went.. I looked.. and I wasn’t impressed enough to migrate.
23. 

    Jink
    

    Jun 24th, 2009
    

    Am I missing something here?
    Some of these posts indicate there is some confusion about the origins of Opensim. From what I’ve been made to understand is that Linden created Opensim software, including the open source viewer, both based on early versions of Second Life. They created these and made them available to everyone to let them grow, seperately from Second Life. There are a number of reasons why this is a smart move for Linden Labs and there are also ways that this can bite them in the hind quarters.

    But the issue here is about banning from Second Life. It seems to have increased recently but at the same time I have read that Linden Labs has laid off some people. So it seems that Linden Labs is investing less energy into whether complaints are valid and they are being very arbritary in who they choose to ban with little room for appealling the decision.

    Does anyone know of anyone that has won an appeal and had their Second Life account restored? If so, anyone recently?
24. 

    Wayfinder
    

    Jul 20th, 2009
    

    I mean no disrespect to the author, but I require more from such articles than rumor.

    I’ve been known to write a blog or two exposing Linden Lab antics. But I usually try to provide at least a bit of evidence to back up such articles. To my knowledge, not one that I’ve written so far has proved inaccurate. That happens through research of facts and evidence, not hearsay from people on OpenLife who may or may not be telling the truth. (Full disclosure: Elf Clan left Open Life due to extremely irresponsible “business” activities of that company– or more accurately, lack thereof– such as having no accounting, no A/R department, no billing department, and then shutting down user sims for supposed lack of payment.)

    Fact #1: Linden Lab stating they can ban anyone from their board, at any time, for any reason, does not make it so. Because in this country, a person can SUE a company at any time, for any reason, and actually win, regardless of TOS statements. According to law: a contract cannot be designed to break state or Federal law. There are some state and Federal laws in place that groundless banning of a person would most certainly cross, regardless of TOS. The TOS is a nice “scare” documents. I’m sure Linden Lab realizes a competent lawyer could tear it apart and have it thrown out of court in about 30 minutes (and indeed, that apparently has happened in the past).

    Fact #2: Linden Lab has a lot of faults, but banning people for absolutely no valid reason is not one I’ve known. If they’ve tolerated someone as outspoken as me for the past 5 1/2 years… they are not a company to quickly ban users. Linden Lab has fairly thick skin (well, except for their JIRA people. That’s about as thin-skinned, drama-prone and abusive a branch of Linden Lab as I’ve known).

    Fact #3: Linden Lab banning people for (allegedly) belonging to Open Life would be blatantly illegal. The legal term is “restriction of competition”… and it’s pretty much against the law not only in every state in the U.S… but Federally. Microsoft themselves were found guilty on restriction of trade charges– so no one is immune to that law. That would open up a whole can of legal worms that could bring anti-monopoly laws right down on their heads. No TOS is going to protect them from that.

    So… although I’ve seen the company do some really, really goofy things over the past 5 years (some of them even quite foolish and customer-abusive) I would hope even that company is smart enough to know better than to tread on such laws. That would be sheer legal suicide. One user may not have the resources to hire a lawyer and sue the company– but some might. And where one user is funds-short… a class-action lawsuit with an attorney willing to work on a contingency fee would have no such funds shortage. A few thousand people all donating $5 or $10 to legal fees can go a looong way toward dealing with such lawsuits.

    There is no company so big or bulletproof that one irate customer can’t bring that company down. History is full of such cases. All Linden Lab would need to do is tick of the wrong person at the wrong time… and in the wrong way. As my college Business professor made very clear to all potential entrepreneurs: No one is above a lawsuit. If Microsoft was found guilty… Linden Lab is surely not bullet proof.

    So frankly, I doubt even that company would be so foolish as to engage in intentional restriction of trade. Because if they were even suspected of it, all it would take is one judge issuing one order for full legal disclosure to bring the whole works down. If I were Linden Lab… the last thing I would want is for company records to be brought to public attention. That would be sheer suicide.
25. 

    Hercimer
    

    Aug 8th, 2009
    

    Wow, I don’t think I have ever seen an article that was so full of pure speculation with virtually no facts to back it up, let alone conformation of facts from more then one source. Comments like “According to numerous reports, users of the OpenSim-based Open Life are receiving IP-bans from Second Life.” are meaningless if you can’t cite one single instance of one of these sources and it just gets worse after that. I have never meet anyone in OL that said they had been banned from SL yet and a good number go to both routinely, including myself.

    Others posting that people go to OL because they where banned from SL is not something I have seen there and I’ve talked to a lot of them. Each has there own reasons for going there, some are sick of SL, others go there because you can get a private sim for only $75.00 and $75.00 a month tier. Others like being able to build things with the artificial limits on prim sizes removed that Linden Labs purposely put in place.

    Content in OL was always a problem, due to them not being able to get the permissions system up right yet. Everyone there knows it, so everyone for that reason and because they didn’t have a money system in place yet, just transferred some of their cheaper junk there and gave it out for free or made some things to give away for free. All of this is much like what it was like when SL first started, with lots of players making and giving away things for free to help new people get started, including LL employees, to encourage new players to stick around. There was nothing sinister about any of this. I have also not seen anything that looked like it was stolen there. OL does not allow bots there too. As far as players taking freebies made by others, claiming them as theirs and selling them, you need to look at SL and not OL. OL did not until just about a month ago, have any money system for anyone to sell anything, but I sure have seen a lot of shops in SL where people are taking full permissions freebie items and selling them as theirs.

    Some things can be transferred to any grid, without the need of any programs. Like images for things like these (textures, clothing, skins, scripts, and a few other things). Only prim items are in need of a program to transfer them. I have only seen freebie textures that some brought over from SL and so far I haven’t noticed any textures that someone had for sale in SL in OL, unless the texture was made by that person. So don’t forget, just because you see the same thing in both grids, does not mean it was stolen, it was probably transferred over to there by the person that made it. I should know, I’m one that has done this with some of my things, that I sale in SL.

    As of a few month ago, OL only allows their current version of their OL viewer to be used to log in there, until further notice. So that means that you can’t log in to their grid with anything else.

    Anyone banned in SL is someone that was banned for doing something wrong in SL. SL has banned some viewers for technical reasons, but not the users of them, unless it was a special made viewer that could be used to do things that where against TOS rules and then the user and the viewer where both banned, when they where caught violating TOS rules with it. The OL viewer is no longer compatibly with SL too, so even if you could log into SL with it, it wouldn’t work very good.

    So all this mindless speculation on things with virtually no evidence to back it up with, is nice fiction reading, but very little to do with reality, as far as I am concerned.
26. 

    TigroSpottystripes Katsu
    

    Aug 15th, 2009
    

    btw, as far as I know, OpenLife and OpenSim are two separated things (that may or may not be related in some aspects)

    OpenSim is completly reverse engineered from analysis of the protocol and stuff, LL has not released the code for the servers

    OpenLife I think is a fork from the opensource SL official client that connects to a grid that I think is also called OpenLife, that runs on a modified version of OpenSim. Some stuff is different with them I’m not sure on the details, they only allow their client to connect tot heir grid I think, also I think they don’t allow the general public to see what they do witht he client and/or server code.
27. 

    Mr wolf
    

    Aug 28th, 2009
    

    Sounds like a scare story to me…

    And why eny one bothers with olg i have no idea as many have said buggy as hell and you PAY
    Come join OS-GRID much smoother and free
28. 

    Rattles
    

    Sep 21st, 2009
    

    Why bother with Openlife? It’s so damned clunky it’s not worth the trouble. Give ‘em a few years to catch up with SL then worry about all this drama.
29. 

    Shai Khalifa
    

    Feb 9th, 2010
    

    For a bust of this particular piece of misinformation, refer to
    http://www.openlifeoracl.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=36:happily-cohabiting-between-ol-and-other-grids&Itemid=61
30. 

    Alexandra
    

    Feb 22nd, 2010
    

    Umm…no lol…thats like saying they will ban ppl from imvu that uses secondlife or vise versa… that completely stupid!
31. 

    Ethereal
    

    Apr 22nd, 2010
    

    So does any one know which clients are causing the banning from SL, Cause i really do not want to loose all the friends I have made here over the years cause I am using the wrong veiwer.
32. 

    diavolo
    

    Jun 7th, 2010
    

    Yea, they keep baning without reasons all the time. Under these circumstances, getting back and screwing them all the time or using copybots becomes a legitimate business.

    Don’t worry, they are motherfuckers plus you have nothing to lose.
33. 

    Blabber
    

    Jun 9th, 2010
    

    First off having the attitude of linden labs are mother fuckers is probably not the right attitude. Do take this advice from someone who cursed a linden employee out for reasons i believe were caused by rogue employees. But stating something like that gives you a bad name because even though there may be problems with their governance team at times you cannot expect a resident an employee or philip linden hiimself to be perfect so mistakes will happen. Getting back at them will never give you the chance to actually enjoy the perks the game provides such as meeting new and interesting people seeing things you would normally not see in real life. Second Life gives the opportunity for someone to live “The Dream” as some would call it it also gives the opportunity for someone to live a life they otherwise would not live in real life because of a: it not being possible B: legal reasons and so and so on. Now i can see if linden labs placed groups on other grids to make sure content was not being stolen which in most cases is not an issue but i could see them protecting particular items made by either a linden lab employee or linden labs themselves as to other speculations i don’t honestly think they care. What business of theirs would it be if someone stole a pair of socks i made?? It would only be a problem with linden in most cases if they caught someone stealing the pair of socks but it would most likely go unnoticed. Now for the fun stuff in linden labs tos it clearly states anything you upload create or purchase is still not yours even if you made it you paid for it w/e the case it’s their servers they have a right to do anything they please with such content that is uploaded or created on their systems So for someone to complain about their stuff being stolen the only people who should be crying is linden labs cause the minute you hit that upload button it’s their property you only hold rights to it they meaning linden labs owns it. But because of so much created on their systems a day it would cost them a fortune to hire a team to make sure that Their content on their servers isn’t moved to other grids such as ol og or os-grid. So the only people who should be complaining when that happens is linden labs cause what was yours is now theirs as mentioned above you only hold rights to it until they either ban you or you quit second life. As far as them banning you yes they can legally ban you for any purpose AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT BREAK STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS. In most cases in second life they can ban you for any reason other then those that laws deny them of being able to do because in most reasons you are a free basic member meaning they are providing their services free of cost to you!! BUT if you were paying them for such services they would have to have a really good reason to ban you because they are no longer providing their services to you for free you are paying them for that service which gives you legal right to be able to hold that service till the next billing date. So for any smart guys who want to test linden labs when they are a free user go ahead but don’t plan on staying a while cause as soon as you severely violate or continuously violate their rules they are going to give you the boot. But if you were a paid user there would probably be less restrictions to such rules. Ever wonder why more free users on second life get the boot then users who pay?? CAUSE USERS WHO ARE NOT PAYING PRETTY MUCH HAVE NO LEGAL STAND UNLESS LINDEN LABS BREAKS FEDERAL OR STATE LAWS AND ANY JUDGE WOULD AGREE IF YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR IT WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO IT?? pAYING FOR THE SERVICE GIVES YOU A MORE LEGAL STAND IN SUCH COURTS!!
34. 

    Alex
    

    Jun 17th, 2010
    

    If LL bans over Second Inventory, then how come they allow it to be sold on XStreet and in world?

    CORRECTION: Prokofy Neva is NOT a “personality” nor a “he” in real life. She is a nut-job malcontent loudmouth many would love to see banned from SL and every other grid on the web.
35. 

    gunmaker guardian
    

    May 4th, 2011
    

    and .. who gives a turd anymore? secondlife admins harvest accounts that have money .. by deleting anything that walks sideways and taking there money. not to mention secondlfie is now a lagging desert.. dont those idiots know how to defrag a hardrive??me and all my pals left second life in a FLOCK to osgrid and other sims

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