Is Your Second Life Woman a Real Life Man?
by Alphaville Herald on 04/05/09 at 10:01 pm
SL sex fraud victim Mandy Dorfler loses money on wedding, asks Linden Lab for gender verification — Is species verification for furries next?
by Tenshi Vielle
We've moved from being butthurt on the Second Life forums to being butthurt on the Linden Lab public JIRA – now the site of choice to whinge if you've been slighted in some manner in the fictional entertainment that is Second Life.
For instance, consider the plight of SL lesbians who feel 'raped' when their SL female partner turns out to be a real-life male. Heterophobes, if you will. If that is not bad enough, imagine the hurt and rage in the fur community when a certain special SL snow leopard turns out to be something else entirely. Will this outrage never end?
Mandy Dorfler leads the charge to clean up the metaverse with a recent Jira entry: "Use the Age Verification system already in place to do a voluntary Gender Verification to protect against the fraudulent use of female avatars by RL males. Many lesbians regard this practice as a form of cyber rape. SL should be cutting edge on this.
Description: Too often women are violated by men in SL. Men come to women only areas and use a female avatar to cause troubl emotionally and in other ways. This is a form of cyber rape. Second Life has age verification in place that could be used to voluntarily allow residents to become gender verified. It's not foolproof but it would allow female users in SL to feel safer. As an owner of a women only venue this would be a tremendous feature to have. I would be able to allow only gender verified people on the sim. Also, the gender verified option could be shown on the profile page. I was a victim of this fraud myself and it happens often. I married what a thought was a German girl. Spent a fortune on the wedding and other things then "she" confessed to being a rl male. I lost REAL money here through this fraud. Please consider this feature."
So… you met someone who was not what they claimed – and now you want compensation? What are they going to do, take off their pants and send a picture to Linden Lab? Have a crotch inspector? Oh, I know. A USB device. Don't the Japanese have something like that in development?
The comments on Mandy's Jira proposal are golden.
Marx Dudek added a comment – 30/Apr/09 01:27 PM
1. This problem could have been solved by the OP with a video-chat request with her bride-to-be.
2. Equating misrepresentation of gender in a video game to rape is an insult to anyone who has ever been a rape victim in real-life.
3. If you want to be sure that the person you're in love with is the right gender – date in real life.
Beezle Warburton added a comment – 30/Apr/09 02:03 PM
How silly. This is the internet. 80% of the females are really guys.
Siobhan Taylor added a comment – 30/Apr/09 11:57 AM
I wonder how something like this would affect transgendered people?Should they have to verify twice – once for the gender they werelabeled with at birth, and another for their true gender? Or is thisgoing to force them into a "not until you've had all your legalpaperwork sorted out" box?
No, this is a feature we definitely – as LOLCats would put it – DO NOT WANT!
One should also note that this JIRA, as of the writing of this article, has no votes. Guess no one is concerned.
fail
May 8th, 2009
Why don’t all you little fucktards get your minds out of your pants and do something usefull with the short time you have been given?
LOL
May 8th, 2009
@ Jessica Holyoke
Lol,
forgot to tag on, if she gave you a picture to see yours, to establish she’s a woman when she’s not, then yes, she is a liar.
YES, that is EXACTLY what happened, this peson was using some random girls picture he found on MYspace to Make HIS LIE more convicing. I never asked for the photo’s even. HE just sent them and said, this is me, in the hopes I would reply in kind with my own RL photo. This person is STILL on SL pretending to be a Female, and he\she is actually quite well Known, however not sure many people know she is INFACT A HE!
@ Satan
Everything was a LIE with this individual. From name, Gender, age, Location, EVERYTHING. Friendships in SL or in RL are Built on trust!
@janeforyou Barbara
what has ANY of your comments got to do with the the article?
So you protect Men in SL who like to LIE about who they really are in order to have lesbian Pixel sex, I GET IT, your the HERO of the liar community! KUDOS for you!
As for the whole Transvestite, Transexual and Crossdressing community on SL, I infact take my hat off to them, THEY CAN ADMIT who and what they are to themselfs and others! What I will call out, and I will harass and will grief is the Liars. The MEN & Women who blaitently LIE about thier Real life in order to gain friendship and trust from others only to then Exploit it. These people should be made examples of.
Anon-y-mouse
May 8th, 2009
Speaking of doing something better with the time given:
I know two rl females who got so tired of the constant hitting on and filthy propositions wherever they went in sl that they switched to male avies and reported how much more fun sl is now that they can go sailing or shooting or building without IM’s piling on. They both told me they didn’t realize how relaxed a male’s world in sl is – they can go around for hours exploring and nobody talks to them or starts feeding them stupid lines.
I’m surprised the rate of females in male avies isn’t higher since I would assume many have figured this out.
We actually discussed possibilities. This could be a whole new way of life in sl for the right folks. One gender ‘at home’ when with each other and another when you go out. What a concept.
Satan
May 8th, 2009
@The Grown Ups
Thank you. I’m extremely conflicted about the whole ordeal. On one hand it has caused me to see that the things that most people take for granted are really far more meaningful, which often makes my own life more meaningful. But that knowledge also comes with some extreme frustration because it isn’t something that is easy to communicate and I see people pissing all over life every day without any appreciation for it. The Metro Spirit wasn’t going to be my last stop. I was going to write for WIRED, The New York Times, or The Washington Post one day. Maybe all of them as a freelancer. It wasn’t a matter of ‘if’, but a matter of ‘when’. That was my destiny and it was realized after I met Pixeleen, because of the profound influence that person had on my life. While we were friends, I spent that time questioning the validity of the friendship because of my own insecurities and because of that, I lost it. Never mind the fact that I was probably wrong about all the stuff that I had assumed. Real friends are the people who have profound influences on our lives. They make us into better people. When you’re staring down your last days, you realize that the car and the furnishings in your home are worthless compared to the friendships that you cultivated. I will always regret throwing away something that was so meaningful the way that I did, which is what this person is doing if they really give a shit about the other person involved.
Vamooz
May 8th, 2009
@kellie
Onoes! I’m wrecking America’s reputation with virtual lesbian overlords and their white knight defenders. SERIOUS BUSINESS.
genderman
May 9th, 2009
a gender issue in virtual worlds? tell me, what is a virtual gender? what is roleplay? you talking about pixel or what?
use voice chat to check it out
Jahar Aabye
May 9th, 2009
Je ne sais pas parce-que vous pensez qu’on ne parle pas Francais ici. Aussi, je ne comprend pas parce-que vous pensez que les Americains ne parlent pas des autres langues. Je suis Americain, mais je parle Francais et Anglais.
Quand vous ecrivez que les Americains ne parlent pas des autres langues, quand vous ecrivez que les Americains parlent Anglais seulement, vous etes un idiot.
Il y a beaucoup que vous ne comprenez pas comme les Americains. N’ecrivez pas cette merde ici deja, s’il vous plait.
kellie ryba
May 11th, 2009
@ jahar aabye
Yay! You can write in basic French. Vachement Chouette! When you learn idioms that aren’t in the textbook maybe we’ll chat.
Obviously, I speak French too, and I’m an American as well. I did not say that Americans do not speak other languages. Clearly you do not read English very well, or you would know that. What I said, was that the three people who had made fun of janeforyoubarbara’s writing probably don’t speak any foreign languages. (Statistically speaking I am correct in that assumption. According to a 2001 Harris Poll, only 1 in 4 US citizens can speak a language other than English well enough to hold a conversation. The 2000 Census says that 1 in 5 Americans speak foreign language in the home. This means, give or take, that only 5% of the US population are native English speakers who have acquired enough of a foreign language through education to be able to have a conversation in a language other than English).
So, Jahar, while I’m impressed with your school book French, you really missed the point.
Happily, Vamooz responded to what I said with “Onoes!” meaning that he/she speaks Lolcat, great.
Solar Legion
May 11th, 2009
Let’s think like logical, rational adults here for a moment, shall we?
Second Life is a fantasy world, an escape for many. It has always been marketed as being “Your World, Your Imagination”.
This alone means that one should never assume that the Avatars you meet are actually representing who or what the person behind them truly is (inside or outside).
Older services like AOL, Yahoo and others maintain a gender option that is the equivalent of “What business is it of yours” for their users to select. Others, while requiring you to identify your gender, give you the ability to hide this information (Facebook even does this).
These services do such things because many of them actually understand that their users do not want much of their personal information placed in the public eye: Some information for these services can actually be entered in twice, once during registration (for their records only) and once more (optionally) in your profile.
What makes Second Life different when compared to ALL of these services is the entire fantasy element to it: You are not required to be yourself!
With that in mind, the only people who should ever truly need or have access to that kind of personal information … are the Lindens themselves.
While I have sympathy for people who are used or abused through sites like My Space and Facebook … I have NO sympathy at all for the people who come into Second Life with the level of naivety that this woman shows herself to have had.
Such a thing is NOT limited to females either, nor is this something that has only ever happened to women in Second Life. Plenty of Men end up with similar occurrences (be it a woman in SL really being a man or vice versa for the gay population).
I have no sympathy for any of them: It’s marketed as “You World, Your Imagination” – a truly intelligent person would see this and assume things to be different than they appear … or at the very least ask questions.
I-n addition to all of this, the JIRA entry actually containing the laughable notion of “Cyber Rape” is an affront to those who have actually BEEN raped in real life. You can turn off Second Life and your computer … you cannot turn off real life.
All of THAT out of the way ….
In an environment like Second Life, the moment a certain threshold of users have submitted information within a “Voluntary” system whose results are open to public view, the crowd and peer pressure begins and anyone without said information present is ridiculed and bullied until they either add the information or just plain leave: negating the “Voluntary” nature of the original feature.
This is a proven fact as it has occurred and occurs within other services and CANNOT be disputed (unless the person who disputes it is willfully ignorant or blind).
contrary opinions to this ‘feature’ have nothing at all to do with the gender or sexual orientation of the persons offering up their opinions and everything to do with common sense practices within an environment even remotely similar to Second Life.
To state or even think otherwise shows a gross lack of connection with not only the real world, but with the rest of humanity and even with the fantasy worlds often seen online.
Disagree all you want to – but do so in a rational manner, without the attacks on those with a dissenting opinion.
Satan
May 11th, 2009
In my opinion, the whole argument for or against gender verification is an irrational one no matter which stance you take. Besides the fact that it is impossible to definitely prove one’s gender in Second Life unless Linden Lab has representatives inspecting people’s genitals, who would be bothered? Gender is irrelevant when it comes to pixel sex and most friendships on the internet remain on the internet. The fact that gender verification is impossible and that few, if any, would bother if it were, makes your argument against it even more irrational than the idiots who argue in favor of it (which are few). That is yet another reason why I have disregarded the argument in it’s entirety. Another reason is because this article obviously wasn’t designed to argue about whether gender verification should be implemented or not. The author, however much I dislike her – and I do – made it quite clear that the whole thing is absurd and she’s right about that. The only people participating in such a debate at all are clearly ‘out of touch with reality’ as you put it. Thanks for making that clear about yourself though. Durr.
SPACETARD
May 11th, 2009
Another reason why you people shouldn’t rely on a virtual world for intimacy.
wow gold cheap
May 18th, 2009
Okay. So he married the “girl” in-game and he spent real bucks. The point is, it’s still a game. So if he’s planning to take the wedding seriously, like having a real relationship with someone he met in-game why not have a date first in REAL LIFE. In every game there are posers. Like in WoW for an instance, it’s easier to ask for help if your character is a female Rogue and just pretend your a girl IRL. That’s a tactic, a part of the game.
emerson
May 24th, 2009
I have a femme alt in SL and I’ve no problems with it. If the guy/girl don’t ask, then don’t tell. Let ‘em enjoy the fantasy. That is what SL is: a fantasy.
Don’t get me wrong. I am in full agreement that adults should be age verified before interacting with minors (excluding the mainland ‘cleanup’). But we are all adults on the main grid. Surely we can be adults and be honest with each other when asked about RL gender. If someone lies, then they’re a liar.
Interestingly I have known girls to say they’re a guy just to get rid of a boyfriend. And even the other way around. I’ve also had enough lesbian sex as a female AV to know when a guy is on the other end.
No need for a reality check here, just an IQ test. I would rather see IQ’s verified, but then that only takes a few minutes of conversation…
Hammer Swindlehurst
Jul 3rd, 2009
This is a sticky problem I’ve thought about for some time. My personal conclusion is that if a male can convince me he’s a female, then a female he shall be. And verse vicea.
The real problems arises as a Second Life relationship becomes a part of real life. Then many issues become important. Each person’s sex, their appearance, their marital status, financial position, education, and many other things become important.
Most men playing at women are so bad at it, I doubt they can carry out an extensive relationship with an actual woman.
Maybe that’s the crux of the whole question. If you’ve been carrying on a six month long romance with a long haired twenty something sex goddess, only to find out she is a potbellied he, what does it say about your own perceptivity?
Anonymous
Jul 18th, 2009
I hate to point this out to the folks who like microphones as a sex detector, but you can get pitch benders that will make the Godfather sound like Petula Clark.
Nikita
Jan 15th, 2010
I think that the problem is that some people want to make second life a kind of extension of real life, I mean they want second life to be real life in a sort of cartoons. But this was not the objective of the creators of the game, I think. Second life is another world, based on imagination. The argument about the transgenders is more important that some of you would like to make us believe: if the transgender are a minority, aren’t lesbians (if all of them agree with this woman, which we don’t know) a minority too? As far as I can see, heterosexual men and women haven’t asked for gender verification. They don’t seem to have the same problem. Is it important for everyone here? And what about homosexual men? Asking for gender verification just because some women (not all) are searching other women in real life (not in second life, as we can infer from this case) can destroy the main principles of the game: we have all the right to be whatever we want in this world of imagination. And one more thing: the man with a female avatar who married that woman was very credible as a woman, wasn’t he? Doesn’t that mean that men and women are not so different in the mind after all? What is this woman scared of?
Anon
Feb 4th, 2010
What Mandy Dorfler fails to tell those who will listen to her is that she too is, if the rumours from various sources are to be believed, guilty of far worse.
Don’t take this as 100% fact as it isn’t, but the comments coming out of one of her former clubs is that she had an alt that got in too deep with a girl who she partnered up with in SL and then found the only way to dump her was to rez up another alt posing as the first alt’s RL sister to tell the partner that the first alt had died in RL.
One of the clubs Mand frequented had just so happened to have a highlighted a very sad RL incident when one of the security staff had been killed in a car crash just a few months earlier. Some suspect Miss Dorfler of getting the idea from this real tragedy and pretending her alt had died in RL.
So forget gender ID – try making sure your friend/partner is real in the first place i.e. not some sicko pretending to die just to ditch someone who cared for her.
Mind you, if the person she did this to (if true) was the RL guy she speaks of then they both got what they deserved.
If the girl was someone else then Dorfler needs help with her issues.
Dahlia, or Pensive maybe?
Feb 5th, 2010
Someone ask Ms. Dorfler if there should be an ALT verification system too? You know so you dont run around on multiple accounts causing trouble. Seems silly she ran to the internet claiming she was butthurt considering she is guilty of doing more malicious things than her complaint!
fall down laughing
Apr 11th, 2010
this game second life is nothink like the real world its nothink but a load of crap i play it for a long time seen lots strange stuff in it lol
shawna mcbride
Apr 17th, 2010
i agree with Mandy,i was fooled once into a second life marrage and
its hurtfull its more a mental rape you becoem intimet, you share intimet things about yourself but the world is full of bad people
shawna
kristy foster
Aug 10th, 2010
What is SL? A computer image with Text message behind it… Virtual Rape is impossible… it’s a Game where women pretend to be men… Men…women.. you have slaves a harem etc. you Kill people in fights etc…they can’t force you to do anything even with RLV Collar /Browser.. you simply login to standard SL program and it releases all restrictions
The problem is with the users, who are trying to meet Real emotions needs …through a cartoon (avatar) game… they spend 8+ Hours a day or believe thier “SL Marriage” is a real one.. behind the safety of a PC Monitor.. we see the same problem with some Pet owners who say “my Dog is my Child..” dress them up in little outfits… not they are not..
regarding the REAL LIFE $$ to Lindens issue.. yes playing the game costs real $$ thankfully the exchange rate is like $30 to $10,000L but everyone should understand …it’s a GAME.. it’s NOT SL fault you can’t tell the differance or using the service as an Emotional Thearpy..
i cringe at the day..when RL police arrest me for killing someone or Doing anything in SL. even AGEPLAY If both are verified over 21 and want to RP a daddy/daughter thing.. fine.. where is the victim? or do we say “GAY SEX with adults over 21 isn’t morally (or socially) acceptable and therefore shouldn’t be allowed.. who are the thought police?
Kristy
Echelon Sands
Sep 19th, 2011
The question of gender in sl is mute everyone is allowed to play any role they wish gender shouldn’t matter in sl if i play as a male or a female when dating a relationship should be built on honesty if you really want to know ask for there fb or chat with on the phone its not hard to tell if your that close to a person but again it shouldn’t matter if your in a loving relationship with your sl partner its rp after all yes we fell for them but that doesn’t depend on gender
just a thought
Ech
Katy
Nov 7th, 2011
A female avatar is a female avatar. That’s essentially all there is to it. Some physical males possess female gender identities so if such people are operating female avvies where’s the problem?
Something that is interesting is that many transgendered or transsexual people seem to actually identify as TG or TS not as members of the opposite physical sex. Weird, huh? But who cares?
I know a girl who’s SL hubby is an RL female. But, it doesn’t worry her. In this world he’s a man. I know him and I relate to him as a guy quite easily.
Androgyny Resident
Apr 20th, 2012
What is with homophobic men who join a fantasy “game ” and then want to know what sex the fictional character has on the other end of a PC screen …
Take avatars at face value and join and enjoy the fantasy that is second life
I am age verified and that should be all I have to prove !!
I never ask what sex the controller of a female avatar is and as long I feel they are an adult I wouldn’t even ask their age in RL, I consider it non of my business ….
Androgyny resident of 1620 days in SL
Kiera
Feb 23rd, 2013
I’m a guy who plays as a female sometimes, but not as often. Actually I have felt guilty at times until I realized one day IT IS A GAME. That’s all it is really or at least how I see it. Reason I created her was just to see if she would be treated differently than a guy and before I had made a guy and no one would help or anything. But I create Kiera and BAM! Tons of women offering things like skins, shapes, etc. I was amazed. Also found that most of the places where the women I was most attracted to (bodybuilders) went to, there was a double standard in regards to men and women. Men had to pay for things, women got the same for free. So, hey, they screwed themselves lol.
The idea that it is rape is ridiculous, but I would say I would never have a long term relationship on sl with someone unless they could accept the person behind the avatar for who I am (and more often than not, they are probably guys too…especially considering how often I see “shemales” walking all over the place and somehow they are allowed in female only places but men aren’t.) Was an interesting article that made me laugh.
Shandy
Mar 2nd, 2013
(first i realize this posthumous posting)
My friends,
What so many people are missing here, is that it is a virtual world and whoever you represent yourself to be IS who you are. Some of the most outraged people on this topic, are those that equate RL to SL. It doesn’t work that way. OP says she married a woman who later confessed to being a man, and she was pissed because of the deception. What she is failing to understand is that there is NOT a deception here. Anymore than when an AV is a leopard today and a pretty parrot tomorrow.
When her ‘partner’ was married to her as a german girl, she WAS a german girl. then one day she changed into a man. that is the nature of virtual worlds – some would say the magic of virtual worlds.
I won’t go into the “look for the inner beauty” and all that, but really, you need to understand what you’re dealing with and which reality you are embracing.
Suppose a man has a loving SL relationship with a beautiful norwegian girl, she is hot, Hot, HOT!! They go a long for a few years, really enjoying each others’ company, then he finds out one day that in RL she is morbidly obese and very unattractive physically. Who is the bad person then if that relationship breaks up? Be honest, you know dang well you would blame the guy.
I understand the heartache, the emotional investment, the embarssment, the hurt… but YOU need to realize, again, the nature of a virtual world. Trying to ‘correct’ everything in the world you see as wrong is not the way to go. You need to understand the world, Real or Virtual, and work and live within its parameters.
Edna
Mar 4th, 2013
You need to be careful if you are a dude in RL and you create a female identity in Second Life. A joint reserach project conducted by magor universities found that 97.6 % of men who did this turned gay within six months of creating the female avatar.
MelanieDew
Mar 10th, 2013
You can only be duped if you care or allow yourself to be.
This is mostly all common sense.
If the gender of the other player matters to you – ask to hear their voice or see them on webcam. It’s no one else’s responsibility to find out for you.
General pictures don’t prove anything. The best way to make a picture verifiable .. Take a pic and have a sign (or writing) … ex. ‘MelanieDew’ in the pic. Or take a picture for someone with their name, your SL name &/or date in the picture verifying you took it, it’s most likely you, and the age of the photo.
To me, though the webcam is 100% verified, it washes away any fantasy and shows you exactly what you’ve got. Personally as a female prefer not to know what the male I’m talking to looks like, most likely he is much more attractive to me in my head. Yet at the same time I have no prob showing what I look like because honestly it turns me on more if the person is more attracted to me than my avatar.
But there’s a good chance – no matter how good I look I’m not going to be 100% fantasy fulfilling for the other person, maybe better than they could have imagined, maybe no where near.
Voice verification is soo easy – I just ask, “can I hear your voice just for a moment?” So.. If the person is shy or can’t have a conversation on voice .. maybe quickly they can verify more or less what they sound like.. maybe they don’t have a mic or maybe they have 3 kids screaming in the background, maybe they’re in prison or a convent lol the point is, if you want to take that extra step to care what’s REALLY on the other end .. then find out or move on ?!?!
Everyone’s different, everyone’s preferences are different. You make the choice of how much is fantasy and how much is real.
There are no rules. For you or anyone else. No rules to you may mean something entirely different than to someone else. You are dealing in deep seeded fantasy boundaries or lack there of.
If it matters to you .. then find out.
You can’t come back to say … but they lied! LOL
Second Life IS a Lie.
A Fantasy IS a Lie.
“This person is a Liar!” “But why would they lie?”
Why wouldn’t they lie??
In one way or another, we are all liars in SL.
Do I look to deceive? Me, personally, not really, but any fantasy I add into my experience is adding lies. white lies, fun lies, mystery
Pretending is lying.
So if you think, you are playing SL and 100% honest … really good chance you’re lying to yourself or you are plum crazy. It makes a whole lot more sense to play SL and lie in which ever way you want than it does to come on and try to live out rl in second life.
But …………..
And I have every right to.
if I wanted to be a big fat liar! I could
So keep that in mind. If it matters to you of who I am.. I can be anybody or anything I want and it’s all on you, if it matters to you, to find out.
Basically .. ANYTHING GOES in SL. And You are responsible for your own losses, whether that be lindens, time, faith, trust or otherwise.
Grow up
Think
Make decisions for yourself and take responsibility for your choices
Deal with the outcomes.
Learn from your mistakes, if you feel it necessary.
This is Second Life, nothing is off limits.
This isn’t a promise to Happily Ever After Land.
a three tittied hermaphrodite goat molester
Mar 10th, 2013
Verification of any aspect of the real world in a virtual one is a pipedream. LL knew it when they changed their age verification system to a simple checkbox. Juveniles were no less apt to lie about it before than they are now, the only difference is they no longer need their parents credit cards to commit fraud.
Same deal goes for any attempts to gender verify. Voice morphing is already on offer as a paid service and there are third party programs that can be e-spliced between a user’s microphone and a software client like SL. Video? Easy; word a friend up (or if that’s too embarrassing, hire an escort) and have them stand in for you.
Throw up any roadblock, people will figure out a way around it. Linden Lab are no more going to support gender verification than they supported alt detection (can anyone say “Redzone?”) and anyone who wants to complain their fantasy is being impinged by the absence of real life detail can baww all they like, it won’t change a thing. There is such a thing called privacy and if you prevail upon anyone to divulge any aspect of their lives which they do not care to share with you then you are as good as handing them the opportunity to lie about it.
Get a clue people It’s a virtual world, you may as well expect there to be a lot of virtual truth in it
Merit Coba
Mar 11th, 2013
Just before I start: I wish all the best to you Satan.. It was a very moving story.
I like this world where people can be anything they want to be. I even made two movies about it. One was about an male avatar being changed into a female one. It wasn’t very popular.(:)). The other was about my avatar changing from scene to scene while reciting the poem: are you the new person drawn toward me, by Walt Whitman:
ARE you the new person drawn toward me?
To begin with, take warning—I am surely far different from what you suppose;
Do you suppose you will find in me your ideal?
Do you think it so easy to have me become your lover?
Do you think the friendship of me would be unalloy’d satisfaction?
Do you think I am trusty and faithful?
Do you see no further than this façade—this smooth and tolerant manner of me? Do you suppose yourself advancing on real ground toward a real heroic man?
Have you no thought, O dreamer, that it may be all maya, illusion?
I thought it was very apt for second life.
This whole issue about gender leaves me in a quandary. On the one hand I can understand that this lady felt hurt, on the other hand I can understand the desire of the guy to be accepted for what he/she is in Second Life.
What makes me upset is not this issue in itself but the underlying hatred. It’s not just that some ‘lesbians’ tend to prefer women. It’s more: they hate men. I know of at least two ‘lesbians’ who escort in second life and told me that this line of work proved to them that men are vile creatures who are only out for sex. (Yes: read that again).
In some sections of Second Life men are simply condemned for being men, without any defense whatsoever.
Of course these lesbians never visit places that proof them otherwise(book-island for one and raglan shire for another) and if they happen to be there by accident, they only see what they want to see.
What baffles me even more is that some of these women are in fact committing the same crime they charge men with. One selfconfessed lesbian was manager at an escort place and only popped in when there were new female staff members. Most of the time she spent up in her apartment going through the list of women contacts and inviting them by im for a bout of digital sex.
Do a search on an lesbian places in second life and travel to the topmost places. You will find yourself surrounded with naked dancing women and if you hang around long enough you are sure to be hit upon by one out for a quick affair.
Of course.. all these lesbians could be men. I didn’t bother to voice verify them.
There are a few women only places that i would recommend.. I name them women only as opposed to lesbian places, because they are not aimed at sex foremost. Interesting is that these women only places usually allow male dj’s and men, provided they are accompanied by a woman.
Even more strange are some women who hang around shemale places. I recall a friend telling me how he, being shemale, during a conversation with a female avatar in a popular shemale bar (that had shemale written all over) told her that he was male in RL after being asked about it. This ended the conversation(yes read that again). Of course it could be her kink to do it with a shemale that was a female in rl or did she actually belief shemales were women with a male extension?
The thing that struck me was this. Say that you were a man who wants to be a woman in Second Life and your aim is not to screw around, but just to be a woman. Where can you go, what should you do? I put this question to the test and tried some places. You will find it will not be easy. There are simply very few places that say: whatever you are rl, you can come here and be in SL what you want to be AND who are not (kinky) sex oriented or gross.
The more I think of it the more I am amazed about the duplicity of people that condemn others for being cheats while they cheat others. The poledancer who has been 21 for three years in a row. The girl whom downloads pictures from some x-rated sites and sells them as being herself. The men and women who are marrying someone in Second Life, yet are already looking for the next partner while cheating on their rl spouse. The people that hang around certain places and who defend their teenager proportions by claiming that their avatars have realistic proportions.
Sl is a place of ‘fantasies’ and some of these fantasies are in fact lies. And if real life is important to you.. perhaps staying in real life is the best thing to do. Or even better: close your eyes and dream.
I wanted to close with this little story.
One day a male friend of mine, who plays a female in SL, told one woman lover that he was a man in rl. He finds it important to tell. Perhaps you can call it honesty. She reacted thus: why did you have to tell me, now you destroyed the fantasy.
And that is all folks..
I make dead people
Mar 12th, 2013
The problem there though is that if someone refuses to verify, the person asking for verification doesn’t simply shrug and walk away, they frequently turn nasty as if verification was somehow a right that they are being denied.
Not everyone sees SL as an extension of RL and just wants to play a game they can then walk away from. SL is just a peer-to-peer roleplay game (as opposed to requiring some form of game master) and anyone who doesn’t realise that should perhaps consider whether they are mature enough to be involved with other people in a virtual environment.
NoKeyboardFetish
Apr 12th, 2013
You can skype with them, that is what I do. Use video, and use it often. There are so few RL lesbians in SL, it is a joke.
Since typing dose not do a thing for me. (porn downloads are much more interesting, if I want something adult) I find it hard to understand why anyone would emotionally invest in a toon. I recomend EHarmony.com
Unfortunatly, SL is infested with frustrated “Lesbians” who can’t spell a 3 letter word right. I wonder how many of these boys are not old enough to access porn.
AnArtsygurl
Apr 17th, 2013
When I first got to sl, I met a “woman”, asked her what her RL gender was as we were in an intimate relationship. She told me she was female and gave me a nice background of her life to back it up. I began to become suspicious when my love’s mic never worked. It took a month for “her” to begin trying to collect a harem, doing things that were simply hurtful. I was hurt, angry, then left, but not before I knew I had been lied to. All I got by way of truth was the statement, “I am not what you think I am”. I agree, there should be a limitless capacity for individualism, for freedom, for abandon in a virtual world. The fact is though, when one lies, they lie. Period. I spent real money taking care of us; she did not have a virtual home, etc… I still can’t say I am a happy camper about any of that-my wonderful entry into the virtual world, but it did make me wary of other avatars; other people in general. It re-taught me something that you learn before you are five: Don’t trust strangers.
aruba19
Apr 29th, 2013
What is the big deal here? There are signs of gender and while they’re not perfect, they can give you hints. FOR INSTANCE, see a woman who never changes her appearance, EVER? Then she is probably male since men tend to stick with a look they like right down to their clothes, while women change outfits as often as they change their minds. OR, if you have doubts about an avatar’s real life gender ask them what brand of makeup they use in RL. Most men no nothing about makeup and won’t be able to answer. OR does your girlfriend absolutely refuse to voice or Skype with you? Then she’s hiding something and most often, it’s her beard and penis. I’ve met some very butch dykes but a man has a way of being butch that no woman can emulate so if a female AV seems more manly than Hulk Hogan, he probably is.
Fiona
May 29th, 2013
A female avi is a female in my book. Whichever way you look at it. Suppose a guy makes a girl avi like an author writing a story. Is the girl in the story he writes really a guy because her creator and person writing her story is male?
Sex is a physical thing. If you’re bonking a female avi you’re bonking a female avi, no matter what the mind behind it. No lesbian I know in RL would complain that her beautiful girlfriend who thinks she’s a guy is raping her. But when you think about it there’s not much difference between the guy in the girl’s body in RL and the guy in the girl’s body in SL.
Volvic
Jun 1st, 2013
If bin in sl for 6 years now and must say i totally agree with Aruba19. Blingbling, megatits, crappy hair gives it away. I am female rl and i am female sl, but at some point when i was getting griefed by my ex-lover (who started out sl with a female avatar and changed then to a male avi because i simply in my head am not a lesbian..not in the real world and not in the digital world.) So we married and stuff in sl went then later to rl! It didn´t work out final but he kept bugging me in sl and rl..involving police, cort etc, etc…The man made for sure 300 alts that i muted and he kept coming back with other..I kept making alts and he for some reason found them..every freaking time!! Normaly one would say..close sl go do something els..but it didn´t matter the same shit was going on in rl..And since i had a business in sl and good friends and fun and most of all!! I didn´t to give any explanation why i was in sl in the first place to my ex I kept going in there…Till i made a male avatar… I found piece and can enjoy my time with my friends again..Onlyyyy!! And here it comes…he gets bugged by women alll the time…I tell who i am but not like HI, i am female btw..i need to protect myself because in the end i don´t know to whom i am talking eiter..!! Within the next hour ill tell who i am…but came to the conclussion that some women even tho they are not lesbian even tho they know that you are one…they accept and still like to have you as partner!!! They don´t freaking mind and that kinda creepy …people are desperate looking for attention..people are lonely..For me now sl is off..i am not going back! There is only one way to be myself and enjoy my friends and that is RL! I learned meanwhile there is more to live then sl…
Volvic
Jun 1st, 2013
sorry for the spelling mistakes btw!!
shuvlhed
Jun 4th, 2013
I agree and we could give our height and our weight. Maybe do a quick credit check. Do white people play people of color or maybe people of color play white folks. OMG I am not really a biker. BTW is this the article about mental illness, my bad. Raped may be a bit extreme but I will give you “foolish”. I am just as bad I am a Hispanic male with a Black avatar and I am 100% positive that man whore avatar of mine has been with a few males pretending to be females. The way I see it who cares!!!
Senban Babii
Jun 9th, 2013
In Shakespeare’s time every female role on stage was played by a man, and if it was good enough for him it’s good enough for you.
Raven
Jun 16th, 2013
I bet that the majority of these males pretending to be females are the same trolls that post on news stories about how wrong it is to be gay or lesbian. What i think is funny is that some of these hetro males are hitting on each other. As far as how to out a male i dont want to say as then they will learn how to be smarter.
mandy
Sep 11th, 2013
I don’t know how I feel about this. I’ve been stung too on SL by women who were really men…..in all fairness it generally doesn’t take too long to tell.. . . . .but I also know men whose only expression of their feminine side is in the virtual world. Like Alex Bernstein or Bunny Bennett, they’re not gay, but they think like women, feel like women, and aside from some really invasive surgery, SL is one of the few places they can BE women. I also know a few women who portray as men on sl.
At what point is this just being who you are and at what point is this being dishonest? I don’t know. I think if i had a relationship with another woman on SL and it turned out to be a man, i might feel hurt and betrayed. But on the other hand, if i truely felt I knew the person, i might know anyway, and it might be okay.
I dunno. We are very sloppy and complex creatures, aren’t we?
Olias Mayo
Oct 7th, 2013
You ought to read my profile, and once you have, take a peek at my Picks, I am very vocal about the whole ‘gender-thing’ in my profile.
wdwalker
Oct 13th, 2013
I find this all very interesting and enlightening. I am male and portray one in Sl. I have often wondered what if the “female” I am emoting with is a guy? How would I feel? Well after reading this….I have come to the conclusion that I DON’T care! If they can play the part well enough to keep up in the RP so be it. I after all think intelligent and envolved RP is the best part of SL. C’est la vie….
keep it Real….or keep it SL….up to you.
Jo
Oct 26th, 2013
A female avatar is a female avatar. If SL lesbians want relationships with RL females RL is the place to do it.
In SL a female avvie is a female in my book.
Gullector
Oct 29th, 2013
@Jo
Like the smelly eruption of asteroids fumes boiling over a TRAP has appeared. Silly suck lifer don’t you know every female avatar there’s a hairy beer-belly basement sucking man behind it?
I guess you all like sucking the wiener now. Enjoy the pixel AIDS!
yep
Nov 4th, 2013
I would not go so far as to claim rape if a guy pretends to be a female. Would it be considered rape if a female was running around pretending to be a male?
Gaudium
Apr 17th, 2014
Gee whiz, all the people who use a different gender are all perverted gits now, aren’t they. A gender is not something we can choose when we’re born, but in SL, people have the opportunity to choose. I’ve seen some people who aren’t their RL gender, but gender doesn’t amount to jack s**t. Character counts. Want to be a pervert? Be that way. Want to portrait yourself? Fine by me. Want to crossdress? Sure. In SL people have the chance to be accepted as someone different. Our bodies aren’t in the game, but our mindsets are.
Liking a person in SL is not the same as liking a person in RL. It’s your second life, their second life, anyone can mess around as they like. One really likes someone, does information about their biological physical form matter? Not really. Only their online self really matters. I don’t know about you folks, but I’m pretty sure many of us look worse in RL.
Cyber rape? That’s one of the most ABSURD things I’ve ever heard of. Marrying a man when being a lesbian calling that rape? Even more absurd. Last I checked, unless you people have changed it, the definition of rape includes a lack of consent. WILLINGLY marrying a person was consensual last I checked. No one in the article was forced!
This case is just another dumb complication in the SL world’s morality. Screw it.
Davey30
May 8th, 2014
I never ask for gender verification and I only go on voice if the SL woman offers it first. If she says no to verification or voice, it creates doubt in my mind, and why would I deliberately want to ruin the fantasy?