Is Your Second Life Woman a Real Life Man?
by Alphaville Herald on 04/05/09 at 10:01 pm
SL sex fraud victim Mandy Dorfler loses money on wedding, asks Linden Lab for gender verification — Is species verification for furries next?
by Tenshi Vielle
We've moved from being butthurt on the Second Life forums to being butthurt on the Linden Lab public JIRA – now the site of choice to whinge if you've been slighted in some manner in the fictional entertainment that is Second Life.
For instance, consider the plight of SL lesbians who feel 'raped' when their SL female partner turns out to be a real-life male. Heterophobes, if you will. If that is not bad enough, imagine the hurt and rage in the fur community when a certain special SL snow leopard turns out to be something else entirely. Will this outrage never end?
Mandy Dorfler leads the charge to clean up the metaverse with a recent Jira entry: "Use the Age Verification system already in place to do a voluntary Gender Verification to protect against the fraudulent use of female avatars by RL males. Many lesbians regard this practice as a form of cyber rape. SL should be cutting edge on this.
Description: Too often women are violated by men in SL. Men come to women only areas and use a female avatar to cause troubl emotionally and in other ways. This is a form of cyber rape. Second Life has age verification in place that could be used to voluntarily allow residents to become gender verified. It's not foolproof but it would allow female users in SL to feel safer. As an owner of a women only venue this would be a tremendous feature to have. I would be able to allow only gender verified people on the sim. Also, the gender verified option could be shown on the profile page. I was a victim of this fraud myself and it happens often. I married what a thought was a German girl. Spent a fortune on the wedding and other things then "she" confessed to being a rl male. I lost REAL money here through this fraud. Please consider this feature."
So… you met someone who was not what they claimed – and now you want compensation? What are they going to do, take off their pants and send a picture to Linden Lab? Have a crotch inspector? Oh, I know. A USB device. Don't the Japanese have something like that in development?
The comments on Mandy's Jira proposal are golden.
Marx Dudek added a comment – 30/Apr/09 01:27 PM
1. This problem could have been solved by the OP with a video-chat request with her bride-to-be.
2. Equating misrepresentation of gender in a video game to rape is an insult to anyone who has ever been a rape victim in real-life.
3. If you want to be sure that the person you're in love with is the right gender – date in real life.
Beezle Warburton added a comment – 30/Apr/09 02:03 PM
How silly. This is the internet. 80% of the females are really guys.
Siobhan Taylor added a comment – 30/Apr/09 11:57 AM
I wonder how something like this would affect transgendered people?Should they have to verify twice – once for the gender they werelabeled with at birth, and another for their true gender? Or is thisgoing to force them into a "not until you've had all your legalpaperwork sorted out" box?
No, this is a feature we definitely – as LOLCats would put it – DO NOT WANT!
One should also note that this JIRA, as of the writing of this article, has no votes. Guess no one is concerned.
fail
May 8th, 2009
Why don’t all you little fucktards get your minds out of your pants and do something usefull with the short time you have been given?
LOL
May 8th, 2009
@ Jessica Holyoke
Lol,
forgot to tag on, if she gave you a picture to see yours, to establish she’s a woman when she’s not, then yes, she is a liar.
YES, that is EXACTLY what happened, this peson was using some random girls picture he found on MYspace to Make HIS LIE more convicing. I never asked for the photo’s even. HE just sent them and said, this is me, in the hopes I would reply in kind with my own RL photo. This person is STILL on SL pretending to be a Female, and he\she is actually quite well Known, however not sure many people know she is INFACT A HE!
@ Satan
Everything was a LIE with this individual. From name, Gender, age, Location, EVERYTHING. Friendships in SL or in RL are Built on trust!
@janeforyou Barbara
what has ANY of your comments got to do with the the article?
So you protect Men in SL who like to LIE about who they really are in order to have lesbian Pixel sex, I GET IT, your the HERO of the liar community! KUDOS for you!
As for the whole Transvestite, Transexual and Crossdressing community on SL, I infact take my hat off to them, THEY CAN ADMIT who and what they are to themselfs and others! What I will call out, and I will harass and will grief is the Liars. The MEN & Women who blaitently LIE about thier Real life in order to gain friendship and trust from others only to then Exploit it. These people should be made examples of.
Anon-y-mouse
May 8th, 2009
Speaking of doing something better with the time given:
I know two rl females who got so tired of the constant hitting on and filthy propositions wherever they went in sl that they switched to male avies and reported how much more fun sl is now that they can go sailing or shooting or building without IM’s piling on. They both told me they didn’t realize how relaxed a male’s world in sl is – they can go around for hours exploring and nobody talks to them or starts feeding them stupid lines.
I’m surprised the rate of females in male avies isn’t higher since I would assume many have figured this out.
We actually discussed possibilities. This could be a whole new way of life in sl for the right folks. One gender ‘at home’ when with each other and another when you go out. What a concept.
Satan
May 8th, 2009
@The Grown Ups
Thank you. I’m extremely conflicted about the whole ordeal. On one hand it has caused me to see that the things that most people take for granted are really far more meaningful, which often makes my own life more meaningful. But that knowledge also comes with some extreme frustration because it isn’t something that is easy to communicate and I see people pissing all over life every day without any appreciation for it. The Metro Spirit wasn’t going to be my last stop. I was going to write for WIRED, The New York Times, or The Washington Post one day. Maybe all of them as a freelancer. It wasn’t a matter of ‘if’, but a matter of ‘when’. That was my destiny and it was realized after I met Pixeleen, because of the profound influence that person had on my life. While we were friends, I spent that time questioning the validity of the friendship because of my own insecurities and because of that, I lost it. Never mind the fact that I was probably wrong about all the stuff that I had assumed. Real friends are the people who have profound influences on our lives. They make us into better people. When you’re staring down your last days, you realize that the car and the furnishings in your home are worthless compared to the friendships that you cultivated. I will always regret throwing away something that was so meaningful the way that I did, which is what this person is doing if they really give a shit about the other person involved.
Vamooz
May 8th, 2009
@kellie
Onoes! I’m wrecking America’s reputation with virtual lesbian overlords and their white knight defenders. SERIOUS BUSINESS.
genderman
May 9th, 2009
a gender issue in virtual worlds? tell me, what is a virtual gender? what is roleplay? you talking about pixel or what?
use voice chat to check it out
Jahar Aabye
May 9th, 2009
Je ne sais pas parce-que vous pensez qu’on ne parle pas Francais ici. Aussi, je ne comprend pas parce-que vous pensez que les Americains ne parlent pas des autres langues. Je suis Americain, mais je parle Francais et Anglais.
Quand vous ecrivez que les Americains ne parlent pas des autres langues, quand vous ecrivez que les Americains parlent Anglais seulement, vous etes un idiot.
Il y a beaucoup que vous ne comprenez pas comme les Americains. N’ecrivez pas cette merde ici deja, s’il vous plait.
kellie ryba
May 11th, 2009
@ jahar aabye
Yay! You can write in basic French. Vachement Chouette! When you learn idioms that aren’t in the textbook maybe we’ll chat.
Obviously, I speak French too, and I’m an American as well. I did not say that Americans do not speak other languages. Clearly you do not read English very well, or you would know that. What I said, was that the three people who had made fun of janeforyoubarbara’s writing probably don’t speak any foreign languages. (Statistically speaking I am correct in that assumption. According to a 2001 Harris Poll, only 1 in 4 US citizens can speak a language other than English well enough to hold a conversation. The 2000 Census says that 1 in 5 Americans speak foreign language in the home. This means, give or take, that only 5% of the US population are native English speakers who have acquired enough of a foreign language through education to be able to have a conversation in a language other than English).
So, Jahar, while I’m impressed with your school book French, you really missed the point.
Happily, Vamooz responded to what I said with “Onoes!” meaning that he/she speaks Lolcat, great.
Solar Legion
May 11th, 2009
Let’s think like logical, rational adults here for a moment, shall we?
Second Life is a fantasy world, an escape for many. It has always been marketed as being “Your World, Your Imagination”.
This alone means that one should never assume that the Avatars you meet are actually representing who or what the person behind them truly is (inside or outside).
Older services like AOL, Yahoo and others maintain a gender option that is the equivalent of “What business is it of yours” for their users to select. Others, while requiring you to identify your gender, give you the ability to hide this information (Facebook even does this).
These services do such things because many of them actually understand that their users do not want much of their personal information placed in the public eye: Some information for these services can actually be entered in twice, once during registration (for their records only) and once more (optionally) in your profile.
What makes Second Life different when compared to ALL of these services is the entire fantasy element to it: You are not required to be yourself!
With that in mind, the only people who should ever truly need or have access to that kind of personal information … are the Lindens themselves.
While I have sympathy for people who are used or abused through sites like My Space and Facebook … I have NO sympathy at all for the people who come into Second Life with the level of naivety that this woman shows herself to have had.
Such a thing is NOT limited to females either, nor is this something that has only ever happened to women in Second Life. Plenty of Men end up with similar occurrences (be it a woman in SL really being a man or vice versa for the gay population).
I have no sympathy for any of them: It’s marketed as “You World, Your Imagination” – a truly intelligent person would see this and assume things to be different than they appear … or at the very least ask questions.
I-n addition to all of this, the JIRA entry actually containing the laughable notion of “Cyber Rape” is an affront to those who have actually BEEN raped in real life. You can turn off Second Life and your computer … you cannot turn off real life.
All of THAT out of the way ….
In an environment like Second Life, the moment a certain threshold of users have submitted information within a “Voluntary” system whose results are open to public view, the crowd and peer pressure begins and anyone without said information present is ridiculed and bullied until they either add the information or just plain leave: negating the “Voluntary” nature of the original feature.
This is a proven fact as it has occurred and occurs within other services and CANNOT be disputed (unless the person who disputes it is willfully ignorant or blind).
contrary opinions to this ‘feature’ have nothing at all to do with the gender or sexual orientation of the persons offering up their opinions and everything to do with common sense practices within an environment even remotely similar to Second Life.
To state or even think otherwise shows a gross lack of connection with not only the real world, but with the rest of humanity and even with the fantasy worlds often seen online.
Disagree all you want to – but do so in a rational manner, without the attacks on those with a dissenting opinion.
Satan
May 11th, 2009
In my opinion, the whole argument for or against gender verification is an irrational one no matter which stance you take. Besides the fact that it is impossible to definitely prove one’s gender in Second Life unless Linden Lab has representatives inspecting people’s genitals, who would be bothered? Gender is irrelevant when it comes to pixel sex and most friendships on the internet remain on the internet. The fact that gender verification is impossible and that few, if any, would bother if it were, makes your argument against it even more irrational than the idiots who argue in favor of it (which are few). That is yet another reason why I have disregarded the argument in it’s entirety. Another reason is because this article obviously wasn’t designed to argue about whether gender verification should be implemented or not. The author, however much I dislike her – and I do – made it quite clear that the whole thing is absurd and she’s right about that. The only people participating in such a debate at all are clearly ‘out of touch with reality’ as you put it. Thanks for making that clear about yourself though. Durr.
SPACETARD
May 11th, 2009
Another reason why you people shouldn’t rely on a virtual world for intimacy.
wow gold cheap
May 18th, 2009
Okay. So he married the “girl” in-game and he spent real bucks. The point is, it’s still a game. So if he’s planning to take the wedding seriously, like having a real relationship with someone he met in-game why not have a date first in REAL LIFE. In every game there are posers. Like in WoW for an instance, it’s easier to ask for help if your character is a female Rogue and just pretend your a girl IRL. That’s a tactic, a part of the game.
emerson
May 24th, 2009
I have a femme alt in SL and I’ve no problems with it. If the guy/girl don’t ask, then don’t tell. Let ‘em enjoy the fantasy. That is what SL is: a fantasy.
Don’t get me wrong. I am in full agreement that adults should be age verified before interacting with minors (excluding the mainland ‘cleanup’). But we are all adults on the main grid. Surely we can be adults and be honest with each other when asked about RL gender. If someone lies, then they’re a liar.
Interestingly I have known girls to say they’re a guy just to get rid of a boyfriend. And even the other way around. I’ve also had enough lesbian sex as a female AV to know when a guy is on the other end.
No need for a reality check here, just an IQ test. I would rather see IQ’s verified, but then that only takes a few minutes of conversation…
Hammer Swindlehurst
Jul 3rd, 2009
This is a sticky problem I’ve thought about for some time. My personal conclusion is that if a male can convince me he’s a female, then a female he shall be. And verse vicea.
The real problems arises as a Second Life relationship becomes a part of real life. Then many issues become important. Each person’s sex, their appearance, their marital status, financial position, education, and many other things become important.
Most men playing at women are so bad at it, I doubt they can carry out an extensive relationship with an actual woman.
Maybe that’s the crux of the whole question. If you’ve been carrying on a six month long romance with a long haired twenty something sex goddess, only to find out she is a potbellied he, what does it say about your own perceptivity?
Anonymous
Jul 18th, 2009
I hate to point this out to the folks who like microphones as a sex detector, but you can get pitch benders that will make the Godfather sound like Petula Clark.
Nikita
Jan 15th, 2010
I think that the problem is that some people want to make second life a kind of extension of real life, I mean they want second life to be real life in a sort of cartoons. But this was not the objective of the creators of the game, I think. Second life is another world, based on imagination. The argument about the transgenders is more important that some of you would like to make us believe: if the transgender are a minority, aren’t lesbians (if all of them agree with this woman, which we don’t know) a minority too? As far as I can see, heterosexual men and women haven’t asked for gender verification. They don’t seem to have the same problem. Is it important for everyone here? And what about homosexual men? Asking for gender verification just because some women (not all) are searching other women in real life (not in second life, as we can infer from this case) can destroy the main principles of the game: we have all the right to be whatever we want in this world of imagination. And one more thing: the man with a female avatar who married that woman was very credible as a woman, wasn’t he? Doesn’t that mean that men and women are not so different in the mind after all? What is this woman scared of?
Anon
Feb 4th, 2010
What Mandy Dorfler fails to tell those who will listen to her is that she too is, if the rumours from various sources are to be believed, guilty of far worse.
Don’t take this as 100% fact as it isn’t, but the comments coming out of one of her former clubs is that she had an alt that got in too deep with a girl who she partnered up with in SL and then found the only way to dump her was to rez up another alt posing as the first alt’s RL sister to tell the partner that the first alt had died in RL.
One of the clubs Mand frequented had just so happened to have a highlighted a very sad RL incident when one of the security staff had been killed in a car crash just a few months earlier. Some suspect Miss Dorfler of getting the idea from this real tragedy and pretending her alt had died in RL.
So forget gender ID – try making sure your friend/partner is real in the first place i.e. not some sicko pretending to die just to ditch someone who cared for her.
Mind you, if the person she did this to (if true) was the RL guy she speaks of then they both got what they deserved.
If the girl was someone else then Dorfler needs help with her issues.
Dahlia, or Pensive maybe?
Feb 5th, 2010
Someone ask Ms. Dorfler if there should be an ALT verification system too? You know so you dont run around on multiple accounts causing trouble. Seems silly she ran to the internet claiming she was butthurt considering she is guilty of doing more malicious things than her complaint!
fall down laughing
Apr 11th, 2010
this game second life is nothink like the real world its nothink but a load of crap i play it for a long time seen lots strange stuff in it lol
shawna mcbride
Apr 17th, 2010
i agree with Mandy,i was fooled once into a second life marrage and
its hurtfull its more a mental rape you becoem intimet, you share intimet things about yourself but the world is full of bad people
shawna
kristy foster
Aug 10th, 2010
What is SL? A computer image with Text message behind it… Virtual Rape is impossible… it’s a Game where women pretend to be men… Men…women.. you have slaves a harem etc. you Kill people in fights etc…they can’t force you to do anything even with RLV Collar /Browser.. you simply login to standard SL program and it releases all restrictions
The problem is with the users, who are trying to meet Real emotions needs …through a cartoon (avatar) game… they spend 8+ Hours a day or believe thier “SL Marriage” is a real one.. behind the safety of a PC Monitor.. we see the same problem with some Pet owners who say “my Dog is my Child..” dress them up in little outfits… not they are not..
regarding the REAL LIFE $$ to Lindens issue.. yes playing the game costs real $$ thankfully the exchange rate is like $30 to $10,000L but everyone should understand …it’s a GAME.. it’s NOT SL fault you can’t tell the differance or using the service as an Emotional Thearpy..
i cringe at the day..when RL police arrest me for killing someone or Doing anything in SL. even AGEPLAY If both are verified over 21 and want to RP a daddy/daughter thing.. fine.. where is the victim? or do we say “GAY SEX with adults over 21 isn’t morally (or socially) acceptable and therefore shouldn’t be allowed.. who are the thought police?
Kristy