The Alphaville Herald

68 Responses to “Heidi Hastings — Post 6 Grrrrl”

1. 

   Alyx Stoklitsky
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   >I quickly found Gor

   Stopped reading there.
2. 

   Mary Elizabeth
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   So, she was bored with parking her avvie on a dance ball and seeing lots of gesture chat, but posing her avvie in front of some loser guy so he can beat off in his mother’s basement provides her with a sense of community?
3. 

   Freddy Fenber
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   /me loves the second picture. Good work Herald. About time we saw some Gor here
4. 

   Scylla Rhiadra
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   “And gosh, I am no doormat but I LOVE being a slave!”

   /me facepalms …
5. 

   Pax Canning
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   Nice to see other SL communities recognized. Gor gets a bum rap, by people who have no clue what it’s all about.
6. 

   Good 4 U
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   Kudos to you for your courage, doll. I think you look great.

   Don’t worry about the hating. You’re doing what you enjoy…carry on.
7. 

   Crysantha Lafleur
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   I know Heidi, she is bright, talented, exotic, erotic and an incredible person. I am also a Gorean slave… along with.. a designer, a builder, a writer…. Gor does not define who I am as a person, it is simply something I do here in SL. In SL I began as a host in a nightclub(not an escort, but the welcome person), have been a pixie, have been just another girl with a partner, or boyfriends…. , and I have to tell you, the only difference between any other section of SL and the Gorean section, is in Gor we are more open about our sensuality rather than hide it in private IM’s all the time. My Gorean existance is not centered around sitting at the foot of some man beating off in his mothers basement anymore than it is for some person dressed and dancing in a nightclub with some guy, probably doing the very same thing in his mothers basement.
   SL provides a wonderful place to explore and experience things you would not be able to in real life. Why limit yourself to the same mundance existance you have in your real life..
8. 

   Leia Negg
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   “I came to SL in 2006, and have since been variously addicted, nonchalant and all the gambit of emotions in between.”

   The word you’re looking for is “gamut”, not “gambit”

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut_%28disambiguation%29

   Books – known to improve literacy skills. Read them.
9. 

   beth ronmark
   

   Sep 1st, 2009
   

   Very lovely pics! As for the Gor bashing … really??? It’s roleplay nothing more than that! Don’t like it, don’t go there!
10. 

    Baast Sugarplum
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Heidi it is great to see something of the sl alternatives on this site. No one comes out of the same enviroment and not everyone is comfortable in the same one either. Variatyis indeed the spice of life, thank you for spicing things up a bit.
11. 

    Blue Conover
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    It’s amazing how many religious groups sit there and scream that Wiccan folks are satanic cults ready to kill babies and drink the blood of the Living!!!!!

    Ya know.. people making comments about gor here are reminding me of this hysteria.

    Life is diverse and wonderful thing. Different people find different avenues of roleplay amazing. I know various sims that make big business out of “hard core Rape” scenes. For some it’s sick for some its a harmless fantasy.

    Gor is 27 works of fiction alot tamer than some Anne Rice Novels
12. 

    JJ
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Yeah, so Gor has a bad wrap. And some of it is deserved. Sadly many of the stereotypes that people complain about are true. Take away the overly aggressive tone, and the criticism often isn’t far off. There’s a lot of sad people who find their way to SL Gor and get lost in the fantasy instead of dealing with the problems they face in reality. But I’m sure the same can be said for Midian, for the Crack Den, and for every other RP venue in SL. Fantasy is fantasy, Gor just gets a lot of attention because it is considered extreme.

    There’s lots of ridiculous crap going on in SL Gor, but I’ve heard of a lot of people finding friends and connections there that they’d not find anywhere else, people who have experienced deep enriching storylines, and just had a whole lot of fun. And if someone digs kneeling in front of a pixeldude and playing at obedience, well, no harm no foul, go ahead. Gor should simply be considered another sub-culture of like-minded inviduals having found a common interest in a social media. The funny thing is, the more they’re being showered with hate, the more the Goreans feel a community. Nature of the beast.

    Now, on to the article at hand. Nice pics, good to see there are chicks in SL who don’t do the bulimic stick figure avatar.
13. 

    Desari Deledda
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    What a great article, and a great perspective Heidi. It’s a shame however, some are so lost to their discriminations, they can’t appreciate all who make up sl and the world.
14. 

    Atlas Tereshchenko
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Far too often, the Gorean community is lambasted and excoriated for our roleplay of a mythical place that involves slavery, warfare, and such. As with most anything, people will assume the worst when they lack information.

    Heidi brings forward her genuine love of the quality roleplay that is typical in our Gorean community, and speaks eloquently to a shared experience amongst those of us who are within Gor.

    By far and away, the vast majority of Gorean’s are mature, responsible individuals with a highly developed moral and ethical sense. Heidi is one of those individuals. It is the inherent personal qualities of these roleplayers that allows them to effectively engage in Gorean Roleplay.

    Heidi should be commended for her courage in standing up for her likes, her beliefs, and frankly for being a sober and conscientious spokesperson for all of us in Gor. I personally salute her for her efforts!
15. 

    Larne Ashbourne
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Thank you Heidi, your post was wonderful and the pictures are lovely too! Don’t let the people with negative comments (or even the spell checkers) get you down. And good lord people….who cares if someone IS wanking in their Mother’s basement? Is it really any of your beeswax? Besides, won’t that age verification process that ya’ll voted for fix that?
16. 

    Larne Ashbourne
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Probably should have prefaced that last statement with a comment about parents not wondering what their children were doing in a basement that late at night with the computer! LOL
17. 

    Scylla Rhiadra
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Oh dear, where to begin . . .

    Beth:

    If Gor were ONLY role playing, my objections would be fewer. It is not: Gor is built upon a whole (and extremely facile) “world view” that is derived John Norman’s books. It includes, built in, deeply misogynist assumptions about human nature. This is why I have some problems with your suggestion that if I “[d]on’t like it” I shouldn’t “go there.” Let’s try this analogy on:

    “A Ku Klux Klan meeting? Big deal! Don’t like it, don’t go there!”

    The Gorean world view is every bit as hateful as that of the Klan; that the targets of its hate (and the subjects of its form of slavery) are women rather than blacks makes no difference. Here is a quote from a Gorean web site; I could have used any one of hundreds like it from similar sources:

    “ALL women on Gor exist to serve men. Slaves serve men directly, as objects of pleasure, and often affection. Freewomen too serve men, by doing the drudgery we don’t want to do. Some would say this makes them, in a sense, less than slaves.”

    There ARE real world Gorean communities that take this twaddle entirely seriously. What is more to the point, its more serious practitioners in SL carry these assumptions into the real world:

    http://charlanna.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/what-is-this-gor/

    A single quote from Sheraka, taken from this piece, will make my point, but the entire horrifying interview is all about the degree to which, for many, this is NOT just about “RP”:

    “More and more, I get into the philosophy of it and apply it to real life decisions. I start thinking of what I am really, and who I am, and I start applying the principles of honor and integrity in my RL. I have always been honorable and honest but it became so much more important since I’ve done Gor. I also judge people differently. I divide the world in strong honorable people and…slaves. Weird?”

    This is why Heidi’s assertion that Gor “accords with parts of the RL me” is so deeply disturbing.

    Good 4 U:

    I find the accusation that I am a “hater” a little rich from someone defending a way of thinking that belittles women at every turn.

    Crysantha:

    I’m sure Heidi is a sweetheart. But she (and you) subscribe to a type of role play that perpetuates hate towards women. And while I am very pleased to hear that your RP does NOT define you as a person, that is not true of a great many of those with whom you are RPing. As I am sure you must be well aware.
18. 

    Heidi
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Shamelessly and whilst ignoring completely the vitriol of the poor person who felt the need to point out her mistake, when all know its not good manners, changes her opening gambit to…..

    I came to SL in 2006, and have since been variously addicted, nonchalant and the gamut of emotions in between. I quickly found Gor *nods nods* yes I said the Gorean word, I am Gorean, and I love it! I find shopping boring after about 5 minutes, and popping my avie onto a dance ball, and listening to vacuous idiots play gestures every 9.7 seconds drives me crazy, (Don’t get me wrong, I have spent a few rather nice *sl’dates”* being taken dancing, but that’s more the exception than the usual).
19. 

    Seaohnna Anadyr
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    I am a Gorean Slave in that of SL. Just like Heidi I have tried all other forms of Role Play in SL, and none of them are as filling as Gor. I am proud to be a gorean slave, of it is much of who I am in RL as in SL. I met many that give me lip about being treated as nothing, which I never been more of a somebody because of it. I have read the books, but still some of us enjoy being out in the open to being who we are. We are not ashamed, and being in Gor let’s me meet others that are comfortable with themselves just as I am. Everyone is different in SL, but why diss us for something we enjoy doing, when just as human as we are? Like any other I do photography pictures, DJ, build and other things in this Second Life.. but being a Gorean does not make us any less of a person.
20. 

    Kao
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Ok, a word from gorean panther world.. By the way, “panther girl” means an aggressive, arrogant, over-confident woman with a bow in her hand, a dagger in her teeth, and icy cold unblinking eyes above all that. Something totally opposite to a slave. Some men won’t agree with this description, of course. *chuckles

    I’d not call gorean RP dark. Sure it has it’s share of violence, but far less than many traditional settings that are mainly focused on combat and death. In general, goreans are portrayed in the books as loving life and avoiding *unnecessary* cruelty. Does not mean they/we let everyone step on our tails, as we put it here. But playing disgusting scenes for the sake of sheer sadism is considered poor roleplay in gorean sims.
21. 

    Sela Mnntgomery
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Heidi, you stuck your wee neck out (collar and all! *laughs*) for criticism, and indeed got some – but I am proud of you for doing so. Gor is not for everyone, nor is any other role play environment. We all have the right to make our choices of how we spend our time in SL, and it sure would be nice if people could just respect that right without the ‘nasty’.

    Friends or foes; followers of, or frowners on Gor…I wish you all well… I really do.
22. 

    Isabela Maven
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Awesome post, lovely pics! Well, I couldn’t expect less, Heidi is a friendly, smart and creative person. I saw myself in her words since I went throught the very same situations. And those who know nothing about Gor, I think they should of keep their vague opnion to themselves. The hate and fear are common when you talk about the unknow, but in the top of it all we might be respectfull.
23. 

    Bunny Brickworks
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Publishing an article about something Gorean is like watching the Freak Show come to town: you immediately see the creeps coming out of their holes…

    @Heidi: Beautiful shape, I wish there were more women with boobs AND butts in SL. Those lollipop wannabe-model stereotypes are boring as hell.
24. 

    Dragon
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    There are many ways of exploring aspects of your own personality, things in the real world some of us shy away from, or that would be considered taboo in most ‘sane’ cultures and countries.

    Gor and the gorean way of being is somewhat of a return to an older time when things were less complicated, everyone and everything had a place, albeit in a fictional environment… One must question why it has such a successful following both in SL and in RL… the answer is simple, on whatever level fulfillment or enjoyment is gleaned from the activities.

    Lambasting another’s recreational activities based on the puritanical dogma that persists in the western world’s herd mentality is quite frankly narrow minded and can only be adjusted by experiencing the activity in question…

    Just don’t try to collar a barmaid in a pub…

    Heidi.. Keep on being yourself and enjoying both lives.
25. 

    Rawst Berry
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    @Scylla Rhiadra

    I’ve been following your comments for a while now, and I have to say I enjoy them and agree with you usually. I used to be a self-labeled feminist, until I realized that women contribute to their own “oppression” as much as or more than men do.

    Gor would not exist if countless women didn’t willingly participate in it. SL is a fantasy world, no one is truly forced into anything, and anyone can X out when they feel threatened. Heidi and all the other slave girls are there by choice. Likewise, rape roleplay wouldn’t exist either if their weren’t plenty of women with those fantasies.

    I guess I don’t know where I’m going with this, but sometimes it feels like campaigning for women’s rights is such a waste of time when so many women seem to not even care themselves, or happily fit the stereotypes feminists are trying to erase.
26. 

    Mary Elizabeth
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    In addition to the misogyny, Gor promotes eugenics. Read up on the whole purpose of that “slave wine”.

    Gor is a morally corrupt construct entered into by people who are either warped or have not taken the time to read about the world view they role play.
27. 

    Kyss Ohl
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Scylla…
    You compare Gor to the Ku Klux Klan. We do not shove our beliefs down your throat, hunt you down and burn crosses in your front yard. Oddly enough YOUR behavior is more similar to that group. You chose your side of the fence and then decided it was the only side to be on.

    You chose to do something that is actually a problem within Gor, that people have actually been trying to find a way to bring an end to. Taking a quote from the book and twisting it or using it out of context. You assumed that because of the extreme views of a series of books which you obviously haven’t read…that you were qualified and not only that justified in berating and belittling the members of this community. You overlooked the fact that ANY role play community will have the abusers and extremists.
    You took one comment that was made in an interview and twisted it. Honor and Integrity are never a bad thing. And had you read the books you would understand the way he used the term slave. Are there moments when I feel like a slave within my own real life? Let’s see with current trend in employment…YES. I have to do whatever my boss tells me or I get fired, if I get fired, then there is the HUGE queue of people trying to find a job right now, and then suddenly I’m not as able to pay my bills. If I can’t pay my bills then I’m homeless. Have you ever been in a situation where you had no choice in your actions but to take the one dictated to you? If you haven’t..lucky you..and if you have then in that moment you were a slave to someone else.

    You got angry when Good 4 U called you a hater and said that Gor was a world where..”defending a way of thinking that belittles women at every turn.” Yet the very article you quoted explained that not all women in Gor were belittled. Psst..might want to have read instead of skimming to find that quote..Or did you merely search for it til you found an example you wanted then fail to read the rest of the article?

    As for saying “. But she (and you) subscribe to a type of role play that perpetuates hate towards women.” comment to Crysantha, You look at the term slave and assume that a man has hate for his slave. Again you display your ignorance and superiority to every thinking other than your own. Most men actually cherish their slaves. You think because they are property that the Masters do not care about their slaves, or think anything of them. There may be people out there that do have that attitude, Most of the Gorean male I’ve had the pleasure to encounter hold their slaves precious, cherished, and are very proud of them.

    You stated “This is why Heidi’s assertion that Gor “accords with parts of the RL me” is so deeply disturbing.” Yet you didn’t ask what parts of her role she felt that accord with. You didn’t ask anything you just tore into every one else. You just assumed the worst.

    I’m blessed to say that I know Heidi. She’s a feisty, fun loving person, who always has something to say, is an excellent teacher to learn from, and has a good sense of humor. I could go on and on about how wonderful she is..but ya know something .. If You’re too shortsighted and narrow minded to ever find out it is truly your loss.
28. 

    Leia Negg
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    “Shamelessly and whilst ignoring completely the vitriol of the poor person who felt the need to point out her mistake, when all know its not good manners, changes her opening gambit to…..”

    Trolling are a art
29. 

    Najma Xue
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    OMG Heidi your pics or lovely. I also liked the way you wrote your article. In so few words you summed up so much. Thanks for being you!!
30. 

    Adam Zadeh
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    Although their is much wrong with Gor and the Gorean way of life, she is right about one thing. It has a sense of community that is found no where else in Second Life.

    Goreans can wander from city to city and not read the rules of the sim, since we all ready know them. Their are minor differences, but the ideas and ideals are the same.

    The books were written over 40 years ago yet the philsophy rings true with many people, how else can the thousands of websites, blogs, and some 200 + SL sims survive?

    Other books and TV shows have communities on SL that approach the Gorean numbers, Star Trek and Star Wars come to mind…but they don’t share the history that Goreans share. Star Wars is just 30 years old. Star Trek is close in level of love that Goreans share for our worlds although they never did much with their slave girls till the new movie.

    Long live Gor!
31. 

    Kyss Ohl
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    I do not understand how feminists can fight so hard for us to have the right to choose our role in life, but then get mad at us when we do not make the choice they would have us make. If you force us into the role you want us in then you are no better than those you are fighting against for us to have the ability to choose.

    The beauty in life is the right to choose. Just because the choice is not one you would make or enjoy, does not mean that it is not the right choice for the person who made that decision.

    To each their own! True Freedom is having all the options and choosing the one that makes you happiest and brings you the most fulfillment.
32. 

    jomin j
    

    Sep 1st, 2009
    

    So, in short– Gor (still) sucks, but if you like it then I won’t hold it against ya.
33. 

    Treat Rothschild
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    So, some comments here.

    I’ve been in Gor for about 3.5 years now. All of them in SL Gor. It’s a good bunch of people, for the most part, there are always some a-holes in any group of course, but we won’t speak of them here. I find myself returning to Gor and keeping my connections there. I am also not Gorean outside of SL, but I am a Dom.

    Let me ask a question to those who are damning us. How do you feel about BDSM? How do you feel about those of us out here who like to dominate, or who like to be submissive? That enjoy pain? That enjoy humiliation? Are those people flawed? Are those people evil? If not, keep in mind that many of them keep pets and slaves and require their subs to call them “Sir” or “Mistress”.

    So, what’s the difference? Is it because Goreans base their play on a book? Then, what about those who base their play on “The Story of O”?

    A bible verse is appropriate here, I think:

    “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? ” Luke 6:41

    Be well.

    Treat
34. 

    Sie Alcott
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Decent article. Gorean roleplay is no more or less good or bad than any other theme you find like Midian or Crack Alley. Point is have fun with the roleplay.

    @ Larne Ashbourne – You couldn’t have things more wrong. Gor is RP. Based upon Sci Fi books. There is no ‘hatred’ twoards women. Its a male dominated world, would you be as harsh in your critique in an Amazon sim? Perhaps a sim with any Matriarchy? Same thing. Just because its a fake, fantasy, male dominated world that doesn’t exist doesn’t mean its bad. Plus if you haven’t been there to roleplay it nor read the books then how can you know? You can’t. Keep in mind the people playing the parts of ‘slaves’ are consentual and not forced or pressured or anything. If they wish to click the lil red X in the corner they can at anytime.
35. 

    Scylla Rhiadra
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    The overwhelming criticism of what I have said about Gor resolves around the issue of free choice. It is absolutely true that feminism has, since at least the 60s, fought to liberate women sexually, to give them choices that were once unavailable to them. My generation, indeed, every generation of women since has been the beneficiary of that. It is an enormous prize, to be valued highly and safeguarded fiercely.

    But there is a paradox that is built into choice, into free will. It’s a paradox with which any BDSMer or Gorean should be familiar: what happens if one’s “choice” is to SURRENDER the freedom to choose? Precisely this happened in the then-democratic states of Italy and Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. The result was, of course, fascism.

    It’s a paradox, too, that is implicit in Kyss’s comment:

    “Most men actually cherish their slaves. You think because they are property that the Masters do not care about their slaves, or think anything of them.”

    A slave is a slave, Kyss, no matter how cherished; a well-groomed pet may be valued “property,” but it remains property for all that. I can’t read a comment like this — and Gorean literature is replete with them — without remembering Orwell’s _1984_:

    “War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.”

    Let’s compare this with another Gorean commonplace, quoted at random from another source, but repeated in one way or another in just about every Gorean primer I have ever read:

    “In several of the Gor novels, Tarl relates to the reader the idea that the only woman who is truly free is the one that is enslaved.”

    Sound familiar? It is double-think like this that makes Gorean “philosophy” so very very worrisome.

    I’ll repeat again: with freedom comes responsibility. And the most important responsibility is to safeguard the right to choose itself. And Gorean women, even, to some degree, those who JUST role play it for thrills and giggles, are endangering that because they are perpetuating stereotypes and attitudes that are hurting RL women, here and now.

    As for my qualifications to comment . . . Kyss, I did read that article very carefully, and commented at length on it. I have also read a great many other articles very much like it, all rather frighteningly similar in their language and themes, as though (frankly) regurgitated almost by rote. I have read some of the novels (frankly, they are so poorly written that I couldn’t stomach very much), and a great deal of pro-Gorean literature, as well as academic studies. I will freely confess that I have never tried Gor — I don’t need to be hit by a truck to know that I won’t like it — and I will also concede that, for that reason, there are things about it I will never understand. And I will also concede that clearly Gor DOES appeal to something that some women feel they “need.”

    But I am not a psychiatrist or sociologist. I am not frankly all that interested in why women choose Gor; I am interested in its manifestations and its effects. And what I see is women who have been liberated by feminism, using that very freedom to attack the fundamental values that gave it to them in the first place.

    I am sincerely sorry if anyone feels I am “belittling” Gorean women, including Heidi. I can quite accept that she is a wonderful person. But she is a wonderful person who has made a very bad choice. If it were ONLY her choice, if she were not publicly representing and defending a reprehensible misogynist philosophy, I would have little to say on the matter. But here she is . . . on the web, doing just that. And I am afraid that, for that reason, I must answer.
36. 

    Sie Alcott
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    EDIT : I got the wrong name…apologies to Larne I meant to write Scylla.
37. 

    Scylla Rhiadra
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Rawst:

    I entirely understand where you are coming from (and thanks for the kind words, btw). On the one hand, it is difficult, and unpleasant, to criticize women who have made choices for themselves; it can seem, in fact, to fly in the face of everything I believe in. And, on the other, there is a kind of emotional exhaustion that can set in when one realizes that many of the very people one is fighting for really don’t “get it.”

    On the whole, I don’t like to criticize individual choices that women make. I don’t run around SL ARing Goreans or BDSMers, and I don’t go door-to-door proselytizing. What a woman chooses to do in the privacy of her own bedroom/dungeon/whatever is, so far as I am concerned, really her own business.

    The problem is that we are all connected. When someone makes a choice, as Heidi has done, to go PUBLIC as a kind of good will ambassador for Gor, she is reflecting not merely on her own choices, but on ALL women. What happens here, elsewhere on the net, on TV, at the movies . . . it all collectively impacts upon public attitudes towards women . . . towards me, towards you.

    Feminism has succeeded to the extent that it has precisely because it challenged, and ultimately changed many of those attitudes. It HAS impacted upon the way that women are portrayed, or portray themselves, and that is both a cause and reflection of the way in which largely cultural attitudes towards gender have changed.

    So, as far as I am concerned, it is not about haranguing individual women about their personal choices. It isn’t even about taking on individual men. It’s about education, challenging people’s complacent assumptions, and introducing new ideas. That’s why I am often skeptical about attempts to “legislate” change in RL, and why I don’t support bans in SL: they treat the symptoms, not the disease.

    And that is why I post here. Heidi is welcome, so far as I am concerned, to RP Gor to her heart’s content. Really, the “choice” that she has made that I am criticizing is not her Gorean RP: it’s her conscious decision to showcase HERE a “philosophy” that makes a very conscious and explicit assault upon ALL women. And in that sense, it’s a choice she has made not only for herself, but for me as well.
38. 

    Rho
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Is that really motion blur in that third picture?

    Check the eyes and the bracelet, for instance, in the larger version: they have that stripey blurring you’ll find in pictures taken with a handheld at low shutter speed.

    Could be sloppy compression, could be clever post-editing, could be something defying the boundaries between SL and RL. Nah…
39. 

    Lady Aphris of the Kataii
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Some misunderstanding for the ones who think that all women in Gor are treated as inferior. I role play a Gorean Free Woman now for 2 years and I am mostly treated with the utmost respect by the men role playing in Gor. Of course there are some assholes in Gor, like every where else. But I must say that the men in SL Gor are better role players, more serious lovers then what I see out of Gor. In Gor you don’t see naked guys which run over beaches approaching each women with “wanna fuck”.
40. 

    Sarax
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Quote

    “Posted by: Crysantha Lafleur | September 01, 2009 at 01:07 PM

    “I came to SL in 2006, and have since been variously addicted, nonchalant and all the gambit of emotions in between.”

    The word you’re looking for is “gamut”, not “gambit”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut_%28disambiguation%29

    Books – known to improve literacy skills. Read them.”

    Fine to point out. Laughable in the extreme to make it a crusade.

    patronising – (used of behavior or attitude) characteristic of those who treat others with condescension

    supercilious – Adjective. Behaving in a superior and arrogant manner

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Good-Manners/dp/0954854802/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251887837&sr=1-3

    A book. Known to improve attitude toward others. Read it.
41. 

    Desari Deledda
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Scylla wrote:

    “?The problem is that we are all connected. When someone makes a choice, as Heidi has done, to go PUBLIC as a kind of good will ambassador for Gor, she is reflecting not merely on her own choices, but on ALL women.”

    OMG… You don’t care what others do as long as they don’t go public? I bet you are one of those “don’t ask, don’t tell”, kinds of people. Well, of course, unless it’s “you” and “your” moral boundaries that are being characterized. What’s to say we don’t agree with your moral boundary you’ve drawn for the universe? We may not actually, and probably don’t in some instances, subscribe to “your” way of thinking. But does that make us wish you’d be hushed on this forum with your comments because we may be offended by “you”, or worse yet, you might actually bring someone over to your darkside?

    Please don’t go drawing your idea of utopia for me and expect me to not want to draw mine. Open your mind. My stars, we’ve moved from the 60s, now more than ever, we are demonstrating that not only can you live in this world and get from it what you wish, but that we can have alternative thoughts, desires and lifestlyes to which we subscribe to as well. And by the way, I’m not here casting stones at your glass house. So take your boulders and your free thinking, I’m-new-age-and-got-it-completely-right and move on down the road.
42. 

    Drew Peacock
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Personally, whilst I think Gor is based on some pretty fuc.k.ed up mentality, if people want to roleplay it then that’s their call, as long as they don’t hurt or interfere with others.

    And that’s the problem. Because I’ve been pestered by fuc.k.ing Goreans countless times in public areas, constantly trying to drag me into their roleplay. And I’ve lost count of the times that I’ve tripped over some bloody kajira or other kneeling silently at infohubs and the like, forcing their offensive crap down everyone else’s throats. If you kept your crap in your roleplay sims, I wouldn’t personally care what you did to each other. But when you go into public areas and force everyone else to see your roleplay whether they like it or not, then you are beneath contempt. The sooner Goreans are confined to their own sims to rot in their own faeces, the better. And take the fuc.k.ing vampires with you.
43. 

    Fart
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    LOL!!! “So, she was bored with parking her avvie on a dance ball and seeing lots of gesture chat, but posing her avvie in front of some loser guy so he can beat off in his mother’s basement provides her with a sense of community?”

    This is the best post here, Heidi calls people Idiots for using gestures, but she just got beat down with this remark. I roleplay Gor, but the *PEOPLE* who follow these are a bunch of UGLY pretentious pricks with no real life and let their babies cry in the background.
44. 

    Leia Negg
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    “Fine to point out. Laughable in the extreme to make it a crusade.”

    Feel free to become literally angry with rage at your earliest convenience.
45. 

    JustMe
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Seaohnna said “I have tried all other forms of Role Play in SL, and none of them are as filling as Gor”

    Really? so Gor “fills” you , huh ? are you sure you didn’t mean “fulfilling” ? LOL
46. 

    beth ronmark
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    @Scylla

    I think you need to look first at the premise of the Gor books. They were initially written in response to the extreme feminist movement started back in the late 60s to early 70s. During that time you had radical feminists burning their bras, stating that having sex with your husband was nothing more than rape. So in response to a radical view you got the books of Gor … Norman’s satirical writings … but the problem is that some of it rings true!

    What I do believe in is freedom of speech … which based on your quote below; you don’t unless it agrees with your view point! I may not like the KKK or agree with their ideologies but I also trust that people are smart enough out there to decide for themselves.

    “The problem is that we are all connected. When someone makes a choice, as Heidi has done, to go PUBLIC as a kind of good will ambassador for Gor, she is reflecting not merely on her own choices, but on ALL women. What happens here, elsewhere on the net, on TV, at the movies . . . it all collectively impacts upon public attitudes towards women . . . towards me, towards you.”

    Do you think we should be censoring things, things that don’t meet your delicate sensibilities?

    And for Heidi sharing her view as you state below. It’s no different than if you were doing the same thing. What gives you the right and not her?

    “… it’s her conscious decision to showcase HERE a “philosophy” that makes a very conscious and explicit assault upon ALL women. And in that sense, it’s a choice she has made not only for herself, but for me as well.”

    “I’ll repeat again: with freedom comes responsibility. And the most important responsibility is to safeguard the right to choose itself. And Gorean women, even, to some degree, those who JUST role play it for thrills and giggles, are endangering that because they are perpetuating stereotypes and attitudes that are hurting RL women, here and now.”

    So do you say the same thing about those women who choose to become housewives and stay home with the kids? Those same women who spend their day doing chores, raising kids, cooking dinner so her husband can eat when he gets home?

    Do you say the same thing to those women who choose to compete in pageants? Who earn thousands of dollars in scholarship money to pay for their education?

    I find it extremely hypocritical that you tell women they have the right to choose but when they do and it doesn’t agree with you that they aren’t being responsible as women because they are perpetuating stereotypes and attitudes that hurt women.

    I’m a woman. I have two college degrees. I have worked my way up to head an advertising department in a growing company. I chair committees. I build houses for Habitat for Humanity. I hunt. I fish. I can change my own car tire. I work out 5 days a week. I manage the men in my department. I’ve managed CEOs of major corporations, training them on how to talk with the media. I’ve competed in pageants. I role play in Gor as a slave I’ve read some of the books, working my way through all of them. I do believe that men in most cases are physically stronger than women. I do have a real life Master/Dom in my life. I’d proudly be a house wife, staying home to raise my children rather than leaving it to someone else. And while I can lead a team, I want to be treated as a WOMAN. I love wearing jeans and t-shirts. But I also love to wear dresses, feel feminine and beautiful.

    See the joy the of the feminist movement is that I can be ALL of these things! I can do and be anything I set my mind to.

    But you, you can’t be. You’re too limited in your thinking and you can’t stand it that not every woman out there wants to behave and be seen as a man. I really do feel pity for you.

    To me, you’re life is stunted … were mine is full and rich knowing that I can choose and be ALL things woman … strong, beautiful, smart, well spoken, caring, loving, knows when to lead, knows when to follow, feminine, soft, firm. To me it’s not an either or world like it is to you. To me it’s about embracing it all.
47. 

    beth ronmark
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    @ Drew
    “… And that’s the problem. Because I’ve been pestered by fuc.k.ing Goreans countless times in public areas, constantly trying to drag me into their roleplay. And I’ve lost count of the times that I’ve tripped over some bloody kajira or other kneeling silently at infohubs and the like, forcing their offensive crap down everyone else’s throats …”
    Umm that’s a pretty broad and generalized sweeping allegation. I’m sorry this happens to you but I can say most of the gorean RP’ers I know, when they go off the gorean Sims don’t go as goreans.
    And the only InfoHub I know that has that happening is the Gor Hub. But then again I don’t know where you’re hanging out.
48. 

    jomin j
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    @ beth ronmark
    Bra burning didn’t really happen. Also you’re actually elevating Norman’s books as high satire? Ahahahahaha, okay. You need to get out more.
49. 

    Floboz
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    Jolly nice article! Gor is always going to be controversial, so well done for standing proud and defending what you enjoy. As a personal note, have to admit I have seen very disturbing things in SL: RP of women being hanged for the sexual pleasure of the audience, people being bullied and insulted, privacy of people being damaged (example showing material meant to be private publicly), adults playing games as children, zoophilia…etc etc

    None of this in GOR, ever. Gor seems “harsh” in the outside, but I always found it stultifying and dull but nowhere near as “morally barren” as many other areas of SL.

    SL is “cake” and you are entitled to second helpings ..or as many as you want…;)
50. 

    Wooters
    

    Sep 2nd, 2009
    

    The big butt picture is teh awesome and I love the effects on the third one. Good job Timmers, and might I add that picking a Gorean shows that they really are a community- i’ve never seen so many people post on behalf of a model before…usually it’s just a hater pile-on, it is kind of cool to see so many supporters. Maybe I’ll get myself some silks and try it out…

    Great body Heidi, it’s nice to see the full figure here.

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