Saints of Hell MC Implicated In Second Life Content Theft – Part 2

by Alphaville Herald on 09/02/10 at 10:53 pm

Alleged thief remains free after multiple DMCA filings, using the same accounts

by Coke Supply, Investigative Reporter

[Coke Supply's motorcycle copybot investigation continues - the editrix ]


Investigating further, I soon discovered that this was not the first time that Black/Biack had been caught stealing motorbikes. And it wasn't the first time the Saints of Hell group had covered up for his crimes either. He had also been reported to Linden Lab for copying one of Lincoln Braveheart's motorbikes, the “Wild Injun”.

I decided to speak to Lincoln to find out more. Having told him of my desire to write this story for the Herald, he provided me with the background to this previous theft, along with the transcripts of a few conversations that took place between him and two members of the Saints of Hell group.


Coke Supply: Hello Lincoln. I'm writing an article for the Herald about a member of the Saints of Hell group stealing other people's bikes to sell in their sim, and I was wondering if you would like to comment?

Lincoln Braveheart: Yes, of course. I had a bike stolen by Black Lisle. I created a bike called the Wild Injun, created from sculpties made by a variety of creators, including Trinity Hunghi. I believe the theft occurred during a show I had entered at Whiskey River. At the same time, my Harley repro was also botted by someone else. The chain guard and rear fender crash bar were both a signature of my Indian, which until that time, had never been shown before anywhere else. I was unaware of the theft until Redtail informed me that one of his bikes had been stolen and was being sold at the Saints of Hell sim.

Coke Supply: As I understand it, Redtail had already filed a DMCA for every bike in the store at this point?

Lincoln Braveheart: Yes. Redtail was already chasing Black Lisle about his Lakhota Rocket before I found my Indian bikes on sale at the Saints of Hell sim. Trinity made the engine oil galley being used on the stolen version of my bike exclusively for the "Lakhota Rocket", which was how Redtail managed to identify the Wild Injun bike as being stolen. Black Lisle had taken the "Injun" name and put it to the copybotted version of Red's bike, and took Red's engine and put it to the copybotted version of my bike. Black Lisle's name showed as the creator on every part of both bikes, which was clearly not possible, as Red does not sell the sculpt maps to any of the parts he uses, and anyone who builds and assembles bikes will know who made which part. I have networked quite a bit in assembling bikes, have over 10,000 in parts inventory alone, by tons of suppliers and creators. I assemble, not sculpt. Therefore I use a lot of different people's parts, and keep good relations with them and respect their creations. Tater Skytower is the supplier for my Indian front and rear fenders. I also believe that Redtail Magic uses them. Red and I are of the very few that assemble Indians. Mine are early models. Red's are late models. Also, Karyn Vaher's parts are on that bike – the fuel tank, running boards, rear fender crash bar, headlamp, etc. The frame is from Lexei Glas. Yet everything on Black's bike lists him as the creator. I keep lists of all the part suppliers for every motorcycle I assemble,and those lists are available to anyone upon request, no questions asked.
Coke Supply: OK so Redtail filed the DMCA because he saw his engine on the bike, but in fact the entire bike was copybotted from the one that you assembled from parts legitimately obtained from various creators?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes.
Coke Supply: So when November Shelman and Amelia Hainsworth were saying that Black was cleared by Linden Lab – what was that about?
Lincoln Braveheart: They were only saying that because they heard that a DMCA had been filed.
Coke Supply: So this was said before the DMCA was resolved?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes.
Coke Supply: So, when they said that Black was cleared of wrongdoing, they were just talking shit because Linden Lab had not taken action yet?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes lol
Coke Supply: So what happened after the DMCA was resolved in your favour? The bikes in the images you sent me are still being sold at the Saints of Hell sim as we speak.
Lincoln Braveheart: I've only just found that out. Black must have re-uploaded the bike under the Biack account and put it out for sale again after Linden Lab removed it from his inventory. That's how he can get away with saying that Linden Lab found him innocent – by pretending that the bike never got deleted in the first place.
Coke Supply: Ah, I see. So will you be sending a new DMCA to Linden Lab?
Lincoln Braveheart: Yes, of course ;)


Lincoln sent me a folder full of notecards and images relating to the theft of the Wild Injun bike. The notecards were of special interest, detailing the conversations held between himself and two members of the Saints of Hell group who were trying to cover up for Black's crimes.


Amelia Hainsworth: Hey Lincoln. You need help?
Lincoln Braveheart: Just looking at my copybotted Indian.
Amelia Hainsworth: Really… 'cause I don't see that here. I see a bike that my bro built.
Lincoln Braveheart: Behind you. It's copyrighted.
November Shelman: Too bad Linden Labs cleared that up already.
Lincoln Braveheart: My signature chain guard and rear crash bar. A DMCA is already filed.
Amelia Hainsworth: As my brother said, it has already been cleared by Linden labs. But you are of course welcome to contact Sims Rang or Brutus Mcmahon or the creator Biack Lisle.
Amelia Hainsworth ejected and banned you from this land.


The second "conversation" details a torrent of abuse from November Shelman:


November Shelman: It's interesting how you are the second one to claim that's your bike. Seems to me all Indians look alike, you stupid fuck. So how can anyone tell if it's copied? Duh, what a fucking tard.
November Shelman: I got your number nitch(sic) and by the way, Linden Labs has cleared that bike AND its creator, but since you chose to come here and slander his name in open chat I will see to it that you pay dearly for your crime, and you just go right ahead and cry about it 'cause everything I do to you will be within the confines of Second Life Terms of Service.
(no response)
November Shelman: That's what I thought pussy. You ain't got shit to say.


Linden Lab disagrees. The above commentary by Amelia Hainsworth and November Shelman are easily thrown into doubt when reading the results of the DMCA filing made by Redtail Magic on December 31st 2009;


Redtail Magic: Linden Lab has received your notification of copyright infringement under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”), 17 U.S.C. § 512. After having reviewed your notification: In compliance with the DMCA, the following work(s) have been expeditiously removed or disabled: Description of work(s):SLC Injun v13SLC Injun v12.9.5 Location of Work(s):Saints of Hell (233,215,45) Inventory of Black Lisle Sincerely, Linden Lab

Redtail Magic: :)
Lincoln Braveheart: Awesome!
Redtail Magic: Just waiting on the others to be removed :)
Lincoln Braveheart: Can you forward that to Zara Yip, we were just talking about that. She was trying to help.
Redtail Magic: Sure thing. Just doing the rounds now.


Lincoln Braveheart's bike, the Wild Injun, was placed back in the Saints of Hell store immediately after the DMCA was successfully resolved in Redtail's favour. Curiously, Linden Lab left Redtail's bikes in the store, and decided to keep both the Black and Biack accounts open at this point in time. Although the Black account disappeared shortly after I began my investigation, fresh copies of the Wild Injun and Lakhota Rocket were placed into the Saints of Hell store under the Biack account on the 11th of January 2010, with every single prim in the bikes listing their creation date as 11th January 2010 too.



I decided to speak to Biack Lisle directly, to see what he might have to say for himself regarding his shiny new bikes.


Coke Supply: Hello Biack. I was wondering, who did you get the parts from to build your bikes?

BIack Lisle : Some purchased and some made.
Coke Supply : Where can I get them from?
BIack Lisle : Try a search for motorcycle parts, but be careful not to lay your hands on shit that turns out to be stolen otherwise you'll have people asking you innocently where you purchased your parts from.
Coke Supply : Oh I see. Is that what happened to you? I saw the sign at the Saints of Hell store.
BIack Lisle : Apparently so, but I am yet to see any proof, just accusations.
Coke Supply : Hmm, maybe I will lay off making bikes for the time being.
BIack Lisle : Use Karyn. Let me find you a landmark. She is 100% kosher.
Coke Supply : Ah OK, cool. I'm a builder. I've never done bikes though. I didn't know bikes could be made so well until I saw these ones.
BIack Lisle : They are fun, until the claims of copybotting come along. But the claims are just that. I have sent Linden Lab video of people actually botting, and nothing ever happened.
Coke Supply : Well, I guess that if the sculpties can be found all over Second Life, then it's only a matter of time before someone accuses someone else of copying.
BIack Lisle : Yup, my shit is out there. Nothing I can do over it.
Coke Supply : Yes I have complained to them of people that have entire sims full of stolen items and Linden Lab haven't done shit about it.
BIack Lisle : Everyone that has made a decent bike has been botted and their shit is for sale somewhere. This place is Kosher, good looking honest work. Prices aren't bad either.
Coke Supply : Ah cool. I will have a look. Thank you Biack.
BIack Lisle : Very welcome.


I noticed four things. First, Biack claimed that the parts were found all over Second Life, yet avoided answering my initial inquiry of where they could be found. Second, Biack inadvertently admitted that the bike contained stolen parts. Third, the Saints of Hell owner, Sims Rang, claims the exact opposite. Finally, the SLURL that Biack provided me with took me to the one creator of the parts on his bike that sold the original sculpt maps, Karyn Vaher. Therefore, it was impossible to tell either way if he had illegally copybotted any of her parts.



The next name on my list was Motor Loon, who is a seller of motorbikes that had previous dealings with Black, and detailed yet another story of theft by him.


Coke Supply: Hello Motor, do you have a moment to chat with me?

Motor Loon: What's up Coke?
Coke Supply: Long story short – I'm writing up a story for the Herald regarding the theft of Redtail Magic's Lakhota Rocket motorbike, and Lincoln Braveheart's Wild Injun motorbike, and I was hoping I could get some information from you. Do you know Redtail Magic? He and a friend of his have had a few thefts recently, and it appears that the person responsible is in a group that is helping him to sell the bikes in question.
Motor Loon: Interesting. What group is that?
Coke Supply: The Saints of Hell Motorbike Club.
Motor Loon: As far as I know, Redtail is not the copybotter.
Coke Supply: Oh I already know that – I've seen the build dates and spoken to the others that helped build the bikes. Basically, I was given a list of names of all the affected parties and your name was on that list, which is how I ended up IM'ing you. I was under the impression that you might have either helped Redtail on the bike, or sold parts you made to him to use on the bike? Or perhaps been a victim of this thief in the past?
Motor Loon: Ah I see. Well, since I don't sell parts at all (only complete bikes) no builder could be using my parts legally. I have had a few issues with people ripping of my stuff in the past, but it hasn't been too bad. I've only filed two DMCA actions in the last 3 years, so I've been lucky. However, my parts and bikes are too well known for people to try and pass off as their own. The recent incident with one of Red's bikes, I do know the guy he DMCA'd. And yes, I have had issues with him in the past (The Black Lisle / Biack Lisle guy).
Coke Supply: Yes, that's the names of the accounts I'm investigating! What happened, if it's OK to ask?

Motor Loon: I have seen Black use some of my stuff in the past. However, back then I didn't file a DMCA since it was minor stuff and it didn't seem worth the trouble. Anyway, I was later informed of Black Lisle being naughty again, and possibly misusing my parts as well. So, I sent someone to check up on it, but there was nothing I held the rights on there. So I backed off again. I was later approached by members of the Saints of Hell Motorbike Club, who thought I had been sending people over there to harass Black, which was not the case. So, although at this time I had no issue with Black, I understood that he DID use some of Red's parts illegally and perhaps others, but I am unsure. I know that Red filed a DMCA and Linden Labs removed at least one bike from Black's inventory as a result. I had a long conversation with his club president the first time around, a girl named Sims Rang.  I was merely informing her of one of her members being way out of line and giving her club a bad name, but she didn't really care about it and took his side – and has done so ever since. I guess the club benefits from the money the bike sales bring in. That, in my book, makes the entire club as guilty as Black.
Coke Supply: We are on exactly the same page here Motor. That's probably what the Herald article is going to say, only, at the rate I'm going, it will have an awful lot of proof to go with it too.
Motor Loon: Sounds good. Let me check my records regarding Black and see if I have any useful information for you there… This is part of a conversation, I think from Jan 09;


Motor Loon: I'm afraid you got ripped off then… Oyster Sak didn't make these.

BIack Lisle: Why do you say that?
Motor Loon: The engine blocks, cylinders, pushrods, ignition and transmission primaries are my work, and this is copyright infringement. I'm afraid even if you bought them from this Oyster guy, they are still stolen copyrighted items.
BIack Lisle: You certain about that? It's not a huge issue to me really, as I am making new ones.
Motor Loon: Of course I'm sure. I made them. I could recognise them anywhere. I'm going to have to file a DMCA on this.
BIack Lisle: You'd better be certain, 'cause they ain't hard to make. Well, not overly hard, I should say.
Motor Loon: Oh, I'm certain. This is not a remake. These are my copyrighted sculpt maps ripped from my bikes.
BIack Lisle: The maps are alpha protected, so even I can't rip them.
Motor Loon: It doesn't matter. The guy you bought them from ripped them. They are still stolen property.
BIack Lisle: Well, do what you feel you have to do, man.
Motor Loon: I will.
BIack Lisle: I had the first sculpty motors in Second Life.
Motor Loon: Nope.
BIack Lisle: Er, yes. Over a year with sculpty motors.
Motor Loon: I run a 10 million Linden business. This is not the first time my products are getting ripped off. You can go to my main store and look yourself. Just type MLCC on the world map.
BIack Lisle: That one has the first sculpt motor in Second Life. That was my first release.
Motor Loon: I've been in business for two years and did my first sculpted motor as soon as the sculpty capable viewer came out. But that doesn't matter anyway – it's the other bikes you have here that are the problem. Your handlebar grips are mine too.


Motor Loon: …Nothing major, but shows just how much he really cares about using stolen stuff. Whether he stole it himself or not.
Coke Supply: No, I think he definitely stole it. Your testimony corroborates the recent theft, as well as corroborating the fact that the management of the group are protecting Black.
Motor Loon: Well actually, a lot of the stolen stuff was with the creator Bambii Boucher's name. Bambii had owner's rights in the group Black used for his bikes. Along with Sims Rang, Imogene Lisle and Biack Lisle.
Coke Supply: Yes. There's 5 owners in the Saints of Hell group right now, so that makes sense.
Motor Loon: Indeed. Note that Black has two accounts…. Black and Biack. Because of Second Life's font, the L and I looks alot the same, and can confuse.
Coke Supply: Yeah I noticed that too.
Motor Loon: Anyway, to sum up, I have seen first hand illegal parts on Black's bikes, including my own. But I haven't filed a DMCA on him which means it's hard to prove these days.
Coke Supply: Oh, it's OK, you won't need to – there's enough evidence on him already to expose him – and the group itself.
Motor Loon: Oh yes. Just the fact that Black didn't dispute the DMCA means he admits it's not his copyrights.
Coke Supply: Yes, of course. But now, Sims Rang is saying that she's a copyright lawyer and will file a counter claim – but to be honest, I think that's all bullshit.
Motor Loon: Yep, I agree. Sims is no lawyer. Anyways, it's too late for a counter-claim.
Coke Supply: Yes, I agree. Anyway, is there anything else I should know? Could you point me in the direction of someone else that I could get a statement from regarding this story? 
Motor Loon: One to talk to about copyright violations regarding bike builders in Second Life would be Hiiigh Jinx. He has done a LOT of work to help people out with these matters, and I think he will know more about the situation than I do.
Coke Supply: Thank you, I will do that. He was one of the names on my list.


I was very surprised to hear that Black/Biack had been involved with copying other people's creations as early as January 2009. At least 8 DMCAs had been filed on him since December that I was made aware of during my investigations, so surely, in the space of an entire year, it stands to reason that other DMCAs were filed upon him by other victims. Why on Earth was his account allowed to stay open for so long? His account had only just been removed in January 2010, a full year after Motor caught him stealing in January 2009. That is one hell of a success streak for any thief. How could he have gotten away with his thefts for so long? I wondered if the real-life filing of copyright on the stolen bikes, as claimed by Sims Rang, was the reason why Black had kept his account for all that time. However, Sims had subsequently claimed that the bikes had NOT been copyrighted, meaning that I questioned her integrity and was unsure which version of her story was true.

As advised, I decided to talk to Hiiigh Jinx to see what else I could find out.


Hiiigh Jinx: Hey, you were looking for me?

Coke Supply: Yes, I was hoping we could have a chat about the theft of Lincoln Braveheart and Redtail Magic's motorbikes. The more info I have, the better, so I'm talking to everyone involved – I need all the specific details you can give.
Hiiigh Jinx: Sure. There are 4 parts on Red's bike which were created by me – the chrome gas tank speedometer, the fuel lines, the gearbox and kicker and the 4th part was the igntion key set. My sim is the ONLY place in Second Life I sell my products. I do not sell them on Xstreet either.
Coke Supply: So what was the deal with the bike?
Hiiigh Jinx: We produce car and bike sculpts and scripts for builders. They are sold full perm with a terms of sale.
Coke Supply: Ah I see. So that's how your parts ended up in the bike, right?
Hiiigh Jinx: The parts that are in the copybotted bike, no. They are in Black Lisle's name. That's actually impossible with my products as I do NOT provide the sculpt maps. Black Lisle copybotted them. It's the only way to make his name as the creator, and this is the reason I NEVER supply sculpt maps – it's a clear-cut case of theft if my parts end up in someone else's name.
Coke Supply: And they got into the original bike because Redtail bought them from you to use in that bike, right?
Hiiigh Jinx: The parts in the original bike were purchased from me, by Redtail Magic. The stolen bike has the same sculpts but they are in the thief's name. Basically, RedTail built the bike, using various creator's products, legally, and then Black Lisle copybotted the entire finished bike. I deal with content theft on a daily basis and have a good strike rate, but we can't work out how they keep getting away with it.
Coke Supply: Who are the other builders whose work appear on the other bike?
Jinx: Karyn Vaher, Hiiigh Jinx, Trinity Hunghi and Redtail Magic. Well, in this case the original bike has Karyn's name as creator on some parts, but she also sells the sculpt maps, which makes it harder to prove theft on those parts.
Coke Supply: But the others don't sell their sculpt maps?
Hiiigh Jinx: No. NEVER.
Coke Supply: OK, I see.
Hiiigh Jinx: I run the BAICT (Bikers Against Intellectual Copyright Theft) which will be taking over from the BBU (Bike Builders Union). In the last 12 months there has been an estimated 7 million Lindens worth of parts and scripts illegally traded or copybotted that I know about, from my business alone. That's around 28000 US dollars. As a group we have filed over 40 DMCAs in the last 12 months. The majority have been successful. Usually, the ones that seem to be successful and swift are the ones filed on unknowns. At one stage in around march 09, there was a definite team of offenders. March, April and May were wild. It was the first time when we collectively stood up for ourselves as a group, as it was happening 4 or 5 times in a day. Now, it happens once or twice in a month. The scripts are now security coded, and send me a message when someone tries to do anything with my products that they shouldn't be doing with them.
Coke Supply : I hear that this particular thief isn't getting touched by Linden Lab at all. According to my sources, he's been stealing bikes for the Saints of Hell for about a year now.
Hiiigh Jinx: Yes. We can't understand why they keep getting away with it.


The conversations with Motor Loon and Hiiigh Jinx were very interesting indeed. It appeared that after multiple DMCA filings, the thief was still there, using the same accounts, setting out for sale the very items that the DMCA filings were meant to deprive him of. The situation was appalling. Not only were all the members of the group that we spoke to blindly defending Black/Biack as a legitimate and skilled content creator, but he also seemed impervious to multiple DMCA actions filed against him by the very creators from which he was stealing from.

And what I found most disturbing of all is that everyone I spoke to from the Saints of Hell group seemed to know it.


31 Responses to “Saints of Hell MC Implicated In Second Life Content Theft – Part 2”

  1. LAME-o-MATIC 9000

    Feb 10th, 2010

    Wow, you greedy drama fucks inspired me! Just for the sake of shutting you all down and ruining your chance at making “millions” [cough - exaggerate much?] of lindens I’m gonna make my own custom sculpty-trike replicas and give em away for free at every single freebie shop and opensim I can find! Now look out all you greedy muthas, I aint enabling mod on any of em! If I find anyone usin even one prim that looks like it came off my trikes I’m gonna report your to those mean old Lindens and slander your name JLU Vigilante style all over the interwebs!

    Muhahaha! Feel my wrath greedy IP rights scumwads!

  2. Motor Loon

    Feb 10th, 2010

    lol… some comments just scream out the age of the writer don’t they? ;-)

  3. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 10th, 2010

    Holy Double Guacamole DMCA Shinanigans!

    Time to get some more popcorn as the saga unfolds.

    I’m concerned about all the butter so I have decided to eat it plain. It’s more healthy that way.

    This whole saga made me write a little diddy and it goes like this:

    I made a nice bike
    I know you will like
    It is a great bike
    It makes me happy

    Someone copied my bike
    For them I have only dislike
    They stole my great bike
    I filed a DMCA

    I wait, I wait
    I miss my bike
    I wait, I wait
    Lindens make me angry

    That’s all I have so far. I don’t have a melody designed yet. Still working on it.

  4. The Truth and nothing but the Truth

    Feb 10th, 2010

    Just a heads up in support of the real creators here – Bambii Boucher is Black Lisle’s ALT – that’s right, he’s a virtual cross-dresser (not that there’s anything wrong with that lol), as well as a thief it appears. Imogene Lisle is Black Lisle’s RL wife. < that is fact – I suspect she is also Sims Rang but I am not entirely sure about that. Enjoy… keep up the heat!!!

  5. Gaara Sandalwood

    Feb 10th, 2010

    In the last 12 months there has been an estimated 7 million Lindens worth of parts and scripts illegally traded or copybotted that I know about, from my business alone

    Now I’m not one to bitch here(I know I rant a bit), but 28k?

    28 thousand dollars? That’s more than my folks and I make in maybe two years let alone one.

    I’m trying to be a bit nuetral in this case(although I can’t stand copybotters like these SoH seem to be)but that just feels like a tad bit of an exagerration to me from a financial view.

  6. LOL

    Feb 10th, 2010

    “Hiiigh Jinx: Yes. We can’t understand why they keep getting away with it.”

    I will tell you why, Linden Lab is a greedy as the copybot users are, LL Will not take actions against paying customers, free basic accounts that copybot are usually deleted when reported in a matter of hours. but Premium accouts that own sims… Linden Lab could care less about your 1 or 2 Stolen prims, when the people stealing it pay Linden Lab thier Tier Fee on time every month. Want Proof; easy just look at all of these Articles, Forums, Blogs and even now tweets regarding Second Life, Theft and DMCA. You will begin to see a pattern except for in a few cases, Linden Lab WILL NOT punnish, suspend, Ban, or even delete a Paying customers account. Thoes Tier payments are just more important to LL then a set of handycap bars, or sexbed, or animation balls, or colthes, or hair, or scripts or even thier own bloody theft driven economy.

    For all thoes who still can not understand I will put it in plain SL speak for you,

    LL Don’t give a fuk 4 ur silly pixels, just ur $

  7. Darien Caldwell

    Feb 10th, 2010

    Seems the thief of the Real Life designs is still free and on the loose as well. :)

  8. Thanatos

    Feb 10th, 2010

    It keeps coming up that every member of the Saints of Hell is a copybotter. But I have yet see pictures or chat logs showing that the copybotting took place while it was happening. There also fails to be a list of every member of the Saints of Hell and what each member copybotted. Show me active video log or chat log where copybotting is takingplace when it happens. Otherwise this a dead issue and this lousy reporter is beating a dead horse for no reason.

  9. Slade

    Feb 10th, 2010

    Well to me it has become very clear that this whole “investigation” and article is not about copybotting, it seems to be more about some people wanting to “get back” at a motorcycle group for banning or not liking them, and @Thanatos: what proof do you expect if the focus is just on their personal feelings?

    Coke Supply: “2) GarrysRocknRoll Blitz doesn’t exist anymore, and my guess is it’s because he copybotted the bike you’re talking about”

    If it was about copybotting, do you think Coke would leave that standing there and not investigate why someone she presumes copybotted is using the Herald and her article to accuse others of the same thing? Anyone familiar with motorcycles who has been around SL awhile knows that GarrysRocknRoll Blitz now calls himself Hiigh Jinx and that he does pretty good profit on those bike contests that the LR probably won at his place. And some might even remember why he has good reasons to hide behind a new avatar.

    I’ll leave it at that, I am not keen on getting insulted, badmouthed and cussed at in internet discussions and this whole story is not worth the bandwidth it took to read it anyway.
    “Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

  10. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 10th, 2010

    This keeps getting better and better. I just ordered some pizza.

    That ain’t workin, that’s the way you do it, makin prims for nuthin, and your DMCA for free.

    I want my, I want my, I want my DMCA.

    Look at that yoyo, sumthin, sumthin, yeah, that ain’t working. Lindens fix the DMCA.

  11. Judge From The Fires

    Feb 10th, 2010


    “It keeps coming up that every member of the Saints of Hell is a copybotter.”


    “There also fails to be a list of every member of the Saints of Hell and what each member copybotted.”

    Read the herald before you post. I counted two accounts and two bikes so far.

    “But I have yet see pictures or chat logs showing that the copybotting took place while it was happening. Show me active video log or chat log where copybotting is takingplace when it happens.”

    Whooa! You dont ask for much do you? How many times have you caught a copybotter red handed? I bet its zero isnt it.

    “Otherwise this a dead issue and this lousy reporter is beating a dead horse for no reason.”

    Only if you were right Thanatos, only if you were right.

  12. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 11th, 2010

    They copied my bike.

    They copied my bike.

    Don’t copy my bike!

    I do not like!

    It’s my bike!

    Linden’s, help me, oh help me. It’s my bike.

    Sang to the tune of AC’DC Hell’s Bells.

  13. darien caldwell

    Feb 11th, 2010

    “Sang to the tune of AC’DC Hell’s Bells.”

    Really? To me it seemed a bit more like Dr. Seuss’ Green Eggs and Ham. :)

  14. Motor Loon can suck a cock

    Apr 9th, 2010

    dont let this bull with loon scare you…i made an exact replica of his prim engine and he tried to say i stole it from him…i found every picture i needed on google and alpha’ed the textures in photoshop…any idiot with half a brain can make everything loon makes

    im not saying go download a copybot and steal his shit but…learn how to make sculpties and you can do exactly what he does…only thing that makes his bikes somewhat unique is his scripts…which no copybot can steal…and theres better scripts out there for sale that blow his out the water…hell loon made the mistake of giving away who his sculpter was about a year ago…i wont mention any names cause i buy sculpties from the guy too….maybe by now he has learned that just because you have a sculpt map with full perm doesnt mean you made it!!!

    i beg you loon try to DMCA me…cause ill show full perm sculpt maps and open up my copy of 3D max and make your fucking parts infront of a judge!!!

  15. Muziekfreak1980 miles

    Apr 9th, 2010

    @Motor Loon can suck a cock

    Your a funny dude, some quotes

    “needed on google and alpha’ed the textures in photoshop…any idiot with half a brain can make everything loon makes”

    Ok so far your right you can make what he does.

    “learn how to make sculpties and you can do exactly what he does”

    Ok here we do agree..

    “i wont mention any names cause i buy sculpties from the guy too”

    Funny…i thought it was “easy” to make loons work..why you need a thirthparty to do as you stated before “easy” work.

    ” beg you loon try to DMCA me”

    I seriously doubt your worth mentioning :) , considering how Motor loon expanded his netwerk (well over 2000 customers) …meh..your just in need of attention. If you really want to be taken seriously, god knows i try here.

    Post with you real av name, and start a GOOD argumental discussion. So atleast i can respect the ranting you do ;)

    Reminder, this is just MY HUMBLE opinion

  16. MasterOutlaw Eel

    Apr 13th, 2010

    @Muziekfreak1980 miles

    you wanted me to use my real SL name so here it is!
    there isnt a sculpt that loon can make that my guy cant also make…and have them be exactly the same…with sculpt maps…do you know why this is?

    cause my guy sculpts for loon…and hes cheap also!!!! so these high end bikes loon makes…anyone again with half a brain can make! but people who build bikes in SL just copy ideas of other people change some textures and call the bike original…or custom…

    hell is anyone has read the newspaper or seen the news on tv you will also see that google “is one of the biggest copyright infringing companies on the internet” and are currently being sued for 10′s of thousands of pictures they didnt have written concent to advertise…the persons sueing want $15000 per picture…this dmca is a bunch of bullshit…a new way for someone to sue an establishment or person…

    ill say this once….please come use a copybot on my bikes…claim them as yours…do what ever your heart desires….cause when i look at your profile and see no payment history on file…i dont give a fuck!!!!! cause all your doing is useing the lindens made in game…so again i say i dont give a fuck!!!! its a god damn game people…A GAME!!!

  17. Muziekfreak1980 miles

    Apr 13th, 2010

    Outlaws MC <—laughable material to begin with but ok i take you for serious here.

    I never said you cannot sculpt like loon does. But i seriously doubt u use the sculpter loon uses (as far as i know he does his own work but ok) perhaps talk too loon and tell him this nice lil story

    Again the wont copy your bike CERTIANLY NOT LOON! LOOOL (im a EX OUTLAW) seen your "work" all fine dont worry you one of hunderds that "prefab" a bike and call themselfs top builders in sl but ok. respect and props for the work.

    The thing you do not seem to grasp here is that loon bikes are famous for one thing. Not the bikes but the perfected scripts )to Mc's/bikers claimed gridwide the best bike there is( THATS what makes his business what it is.

    So yah i agree on the sculpt part, hell i sculpt myself and even i base my high prim bikes on existing frames KCP or whatever model i like. The rest i prim and/or sculpt MYSELF.

    But stop your idiotic (sorry) ranting your head might explode. Your just way of base here and then to claim you use his sculpter. Kindah cute as far he adverts his OWN work.

    Then you start exploding here qoute ". cause when i look at your profile and see no payment history on file…i dont give a fuck!!!!! cause all your doing is useing the lindens made in game…so again i say i dont give a fuck!!!! its a god damn game people…A GAME!!!"

    What the hell that got to do with anything, payment on file not only used to get lindens out of here to rl cash. Most use it the otherway around, the NON content creators vs the creator community is still bigger and WITH PAYMENT ON FILE INFO.

    I just do not get your hate towards that man, goto motor world and talk to him. I talked a few times with loon in the past he is a pretty relaxing guy and laughs about commotion such as this.

    Seem to the the half brained is not him..but us here lolz

  18. MasterOutlaw Eel

    Apr 15th, 2010

    ok your still not understanding what im saying…he buys sculpt maps from a guy…depending on detail…at max 25k linden…he then takes the map…once he has the map the creator of the sculpted prim is loon…he claims that he makes everything on his bikes…he doesnt….only thing he does make is the scripts for the said bikes and thats what i said to begin with makes his bikes unique…but the bike itself looks good upclose but sucks far away….i make bikes that look good from any distance!!!!


  19. Muziekfreak1980 miles

    Apr 15th, 2010

    Sorry i just dont buy what you now say :S
    HE filed more DMCA’s then you can count and won any case that only will work if your the ORIGINAL creator to begin with.

    Then you claim he buys his maps of your sculpter. Im dying to know who that sculpter is now.
    Plus as i said, Loon got famous over his script the bikes itself look so so (goes for most 30 prim bikes imho) no matter how well sculpted. There is only one bike on the grid 30 prims that can beat all the bikes outthere sculp texturewise that would be from the japanese sculpter PaintO Jie

    I did understand you the firsttime, you claim he buys his sculptmaps. Then on his vendors (because he advertise as such) make it look like its his creations all the way through.

    You know what the fun part is, Loon was the first on the grid with bikes that actually looked like one and acted like one. Your telling me that, man that build up a imperium here (well over 2000 customers of not more) based on pure lies?

    I hope loon will react to my im, and place a reaction aswell here. I do doubt it tho. But im curious what he has to say about this all.

    PS conserning sculpt distances, normally sculpts (LOD) are around 10mtr. You can easy defy that by setting rendervolumeLODFactor to 4.000 and done.

    So that tiny argument is easly defeated ;) but contact me inworld. This litters the whole topic kindah ^^

    Friendly greetings Muzie

  20. Muziekfreak1980 miles

    Apr 15th, 2010

    Well i found out your a troll!
    You abuse the name of a mc leader to who i spoke by now.
    Aswell your ranting and all here…

    This discussion has been terminated as such.

  21. Milner Beck

    Jun 14th, 2010

    you know I have to say this, LL has even fucked me out of 20K real US dollars and I had people stealing my parts all the time, crashing my sims and just started all kinds of shit for years with me. I went head to head with calls, reports and nothing every was corrected thats all LL cares about and I agree with Jinx is the $$$$ they make off you, in my opinion there is child porn, beastialty, age play, minors doing real life videos for $$$ and when i complaine to LL they told me I best be quiet and then they banned me. When I returned to the game after the ban I told them and wrote them and spoke to m. Linden himself on the phone and told them take back my sim I will not pay for a game that violators have more rights then us working hard. I told my sim I was giving it up and remove the rental boxes and they never took the sim away and know they IP Bans me and told me I owe for 3 months back which is a fucking lie!!! before I give them 900.00 us money I will go in the corner and fuck myself first hahaha. Wait till the park plaza hotel in boston where their convention is going to be held is contacted and shown all the neg links of how a Major landmark like the hotel is inviting that into there. This game is out of control and something legally must be done? why arn’t the officals going after them either and the thing that got me most is Maggie Linden qouted this ” its not agaisnt the law to fantasize about sex with a animal” in my opinion that is some SICK SHIT if the residents all quit playing for one month watch how fast LL will change their ways then, thats all they care about is their 1st quarther profit of 160 millions us dollars and there laying off 30 percent of there workers I wonder why………………..

  22. Muziekfreak1980 miles

    Jun 27th, 2010

    Forgive me but…are you even sane? To invest 20k USD in a pisspoor platform like this o.O!

  23. Yep

    Jun 27th, 2010

    Yes the Lindens apathy towards child porn, furries having animal sex, rape, slavery, violent acts towards women and other disgusting behavior running rampant in Second Life had a lot to do with the Lindens being fired. It is about time that the sick and disgusting perverts that frequent these sims have run out of friends in the Linden ranks.
    What makes a company more money? A bunch of perverts running around with prim penis’s chasing bimbo’s with slave collars on or big business and education? I agree, time for the perverts to find another game before they totally destroy this one.
    I hope the new blood coming in Linden labs is smart enough to see this and send these sicko’s packing.

  24. Curious

    Jun 27th, 2010

    @ Yep

    Bye bye pervies… don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!!!

  25. Miss J

    Jun 27th, 2010

    I don’t understand why sexual expression in a safe environment is a crime here. (child pornography or anything that includes age play is not included because its sickly-and extrememly wrong).

    Sorry I don’t see what the problem of having sex or orgies in sl are a problem. I don’t even participate or engage in sexual behavior in sl. Rape (SLonly)-Slave-BDSM-Monogamy-Orgies…etc…should not be shamed especially if it is with two consenting parties on the grid.

    Sexual expression is healthy and it should not be tucked away or banished.

  26. Judge Joker

    Jun 27th, 2010


    I won’t defend child rapists or any of the above things you think people do on their own sims, and try to use as shock so no one else can counter your extreme argument.

    But I will defend the ones who just do things that are within the service agreements acceptable actions policy, these acts that are acceptable to a majority of adults in Second Life, are not something for you or any puritan idealist to tell people they can’t do.

    How they enjoy and live their virtual second life is their business and not yours, they pay for the land and objects and accounts which pays for the Lindens to develop your free to use Second Life over all.

    Zindra I believe is more for people like you who can’t accept adults get up to certain fetishes as part of a normal healthy sexual expression of there lives.

    You complain because by default your not entitled to go there, and likely have no actual idea of whats going on in there, and just throw out the worst case scenario that is the worst stereotype you can think of.

    Try not to be a douche by using stereotypes as part of any valid argument.

  27. Slick Munro

    Jun 28th, 2010

    Hopefully Yep will let us know what we should eat, what books we should read, what music we should listen to, and what movies we should watch in an effort to walk a path of righteousness (as defined by him/her).

    What’s funny is that Yep most likely visited sims full of furry sex, rape, slavery, and violence a few times. It’s like a person who watches lots of porn but then wants it banned. You know, they’re watching lots of it just so they know what they’re against. [wink, wink]

    I’m willing to bet a few Linden dollars that Yep has pulled an SL version of Larry Craig a few times: preach against it in public; do it when no one is looking.

  28. Kendra C

    Jun 30th, 2010

    I don’t think virtual rape, child,or slavery porn is healthy at all in Second Life/Real Life. It objectifies women and promotes an unrealistic standard of beauty. It makes men see women as just sex objects and nothing more, especially since a lot of it is just about women doing things to please men.

    I definitely agree with you; it’s disgusting.

  29. Yep

    Jun 30th, 2010

    Kendra sez
    “I don’t think virtual rape, child,or slavery porn is healthy at all in Second Life/Real Life. It objectifies women and promotes an unrealistic standard of beauty. It makes men see women as just sex objects and nothing more, especially since a lot of it is just about women doing things to please men. ”

    More like teen age virgins than real men in the sicko sims chasing after other teenage boys wearing a female avatar. Sick sick sick.

  30. darkfoxx

    Jun 30th, 2010

    Im sorry, but.. Bullshit.
    If a woman is making money off guys oogling at her av or rl naked pictures, how is that having a negative impact on her? Or, in the case of a him, on him? They are making money off the hornyness of those guys, so in fact, they are the ones who are exploiting, not being exploited.

    Plus, what the hell does it have to do with copybotted motorcycles?

  31. darkfoxx

    Jun 30th, 2010

    On Yep’s question what makes LL more money; the prim penises obviously. SL fails too much to be interresting for the big companies. Not that they didnt try. Remember IBM?

    Anyway, you’re very welcome to stay in the PG sims where you dont have to be bothered by us perverts. (and where we dont have to be bothered by the likes of you.)

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