Skills Hak Tags Over 4000 Copybot Capable Avatars
by Pixeleen Mistral on 23/03/10 at 12:09 pm
Skills Hak is claiming significant success for the Gemini Cybernetics CDS anti-copybot system, and recently told the Herald "we looked up the number of uniquely flagged avatars using malicious viewers, the number is 4424. There have been around 70 appeals of which we granted 11, none of them were false posities, but extenuating circumstances".
When we first covered this story Hak’s database of digital rights management agnostic avatars there were around 1200 avatars tagged as dangerous, so the claimed growth since the system was launched is impressive, suggesting large numbers of players who are armed and potentially dangerous to Linden Lab’s DRM controls.
The CDS system detects the Second Life viewers of avatars in the vicinity and forcibly ejects anyone who has ever been found with client software which has to potential to make unauthorized copies of Second Life content. With a zero-tolerance policy for naughty client use and a centralized database of suspicious avatars, the CDS system provides a convenient way for subscribers to pool their resources in the fight against content copying.
However, significant concerns remain about the transparency of the process and potential for abuse. Because the banned avatar database remains secret, there is little if any public oversight possible, and the possibility that those running the database might add enemies to the ban list is at least a theoretical concern. Skills Hak told the Herald that Linden Lab suggested that Hak keep the list of copyright capable avatars private saying, "believe me i’d love to publish the names, but people will read it as a list of known thieves which it isn’t".
Are the copybot client users running on throwaway accounts? Aparently not, although Skills has yet to run an in-depth demographic study of players in the CDS database.
In Skill’s words, "from what i see it’s totally random. some 2005 accounts who "tried" cryolife, mostly clubbers and people interested in sl party with alot of ascii in the profiles, lots of fashionistas. the hottest places are the clubs. i gave out a good bunch of free relays to club and sandbox owners and asked them to set them to message only/no ban. these places are like nests, especially the clubs"
Senban Babii
Apr 17th, 2010
@Ted
“If you don’t like the sims terms, don’t go to the sim.”
But how can we tell in advance if a sim is using such tools? Is there a list somewhere? Once we arrive at the sim, whatever is going to happen has already happened. So what is needed is a list of sims who deploy CDS so that people can make an informed decision as to whether they visit those sims or not.
Ted
Apr 17th, 2010
Just to add, and with what I’ve learned, I would never again sign up for a service that didn’t allow content backup, the removal of items to different or external services, the ability to work offline and import the work into the service. Never again. That is not how it should work at all.
Every time you texture and link two prims in SL, you are giving all the rights to Linden as to what can be done with your works. You give up your rights.
If or when Linden decides to close the doors, you will see all of your “wonderful works” vanish. And it certainly didn’t have to be that way.
While you were playing your games and buying scripts to protect your works, you were giving up all your rights to remove your works for backup, or to use on other services through your constant whining about copybots etc..
There is no freedom in dictatorships. And Linden is a dictator. If you are happy with your promised protectionism from Linden, you will be the same gullible sheep in most everything you do most likely.
No one wants Linden’s permission system in their own database.
Dictating that the clients have to preserve all of Lindens’ information on export doesn’t fly no more than Microsoft stating windows XP can only be ran on one machine per license. They can create the rules, but people don’t have to accept them, nor use their service or products.
Before long, all Linden will have left are the new people just signing up, and those that don’t get it. Which just may be their goal.
Ted
Apr 17th, 2010
“But how can we tell in advance if a sim is using such tools?”
Who cares if they do? Would you buy anything from an idiot who uses it? Trust me, most of the real technical people that build in SL would laugh at anything like this script. The ones that do the best work in SL won’t be using silly things like this. So don’t worry about it.
If you end up on some database, who cares. So what. They have your avatar name, they have your UUID most likely. Big deal.
Who cares if what they think? If you use a detected client and get thrown off the sim.. Big deal. I’ve spent thousands of US dollars in SL, their loss not mine. If they want to throw me off a sim because I use a client they don’t like, so what. I wouldn’t have wanted to purchase anything from anyone using such a script anyhow.
If they are using the script, they are not to bright. Why should I want their works?
Ted
Apr 17th, 2010
And btw, I don’t use SL due to their latest Terms of Service and TPVP polices. I’ve canceled my accounts within the last week.
That alone is a loss of no less than 2,000 USD per year to the SL economy. And much more at times. If you cannot except the rules, you cannot except the service. Much the same way I removed Microsoft products and replaced with open source gnu/linux operating systems due to their terms in 2001.
The people of SL have earned what they are now getting from Linden. Because “They just don’t get it”.
“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security” – Benjamin Franklin
Muziekfreak1980 miles
Apr 17th, 2010
@Terminus
Quote “In other words, if person “X” arrives in your land using a conventional viewer such as Second Life 2, and you have set CDS to automatically eject/time-limit ban any AV that is on the database, and person “X” is listed on the Gemini CDS database, have you as the land owner also abused his or her rights and may be liable to penalties for so doing?Unquote
I think that wont happen that easy. Let’s face it all data collected winds up in there database not mine. Then i think its even more important to know that private simowner and thus there renters. So in a way will go something like this..
ME CDS USER—–bans YOU—-you appeal and blabla—Comes back to ME—then offcourse to the simowner—-that will in return make clear he owns and paid for his own sim.
I dont think there any real rules that will ever make that happen kindah. Lets face it, it is like (lame example) a murderer, blaming the kitchen knife distributor for giving him a knife and that made him go on a killingspree.
content creator
Apr 17th, 2010
use your viewer with this parameter –noquicktime
example
C:\Program Files\SecondLife\SecondLife.exe” –noquicktime
and the CDS system CAN’T detect you
so if you use a viewer they dont like and you login with the above parameter you can copy everything on every sim protected by the CDS system
in my opinion CDS is useless, worthless, valueless
Calif
Apr 17th, 2010
Dear internet e-lawyers, the database is not located in germany. cds is not banning every viewer that isn’t in the approved TPV registry, it has nothing to do with the registry, they are targeting clearly MALICIOUS tools, clients with the sole purpose to copy content, steal user login info, etc. you obviously are not familiar with that kind of software and the damage it does at all. As for auto-banning: Banning and kicking is disabled BY DEFAULT. It’s up to the users if they want to automatically eject copybot users, they have to enable that functionality specifically and they can even locally whitelist people they want. Without a central database to keep track of copybot users the system wouldn’t make much sense in my opinion, thinking that is pretty naive.
Calif
Apr 17th, 2010
good luck with -noquicktime, it doesn’t work
Calif
Apr 17th, 2010
*cough* content creator *cough*
Muziekfreak1980 miles
Apr 18th, 2010
@ content creator
No offence, but what you say does not even work. That allready has passed this topic (and SLX in the discussiontab) many times.
Offcourse i asked Skills Hak if this was true…
Her response was clear as day, to sum it up “hahahaha….no”
To you it has not value ectra, that strikes me as odd. I’m a creator, i love to build and create. Im finally getting towards my first 100th customer in my group so im not nearly as big as whatever company here may hang around. Still i take pride in what i do and can do for the second life community as a creator.
No you make a complete laughable bogus story on how to circumvent the CDS (never trust a forum but try before making a fool of yourself on how evade such a system)
If you are a REAL creator, then ATLEAST you could value the EFFORT of that system, and see what it can mean to your work.
@Terminus
I do agree with you, the system is allready proven its uses specially now that its updated with the option for me as land/shopowner. To only get a message of there is a potential treath present in my humble shop.
Some disagree as i read that go for the “Now skills washes her hands clean by giving you that control” argument.
Maybe so, but you cannot blame a car manufactor for your speeding tickets. Is that not a little bit what is happening here? Let’s face it the person who BUYS this system, knows what it does. As far as i can tell there not misleading there adverts for the CDS.
How do the ppl think about that here?
*following this with a open mind*
Doc
Apr 18th, 2010
@Muziekfreak1980
“No offence, but what you say does not even work ”
“…..No you make a complete laughable bogus story on how to circumvent the CDS (never trust a forum but try before making a fool of yourself on how evade such a system) ….”
have you tried it?
well, i did, and works perfectly for my viewer. I dont even have to use the start parameter, i just turn media off in the preferences.
But you could be right, that there are some cheap viewers out there, that are still detectable over IM.
“Offcourse i asked Skills Hak if this was true…”
LOL, thats like you ask mictorsoft or apple if their products are save ^^
Muziekfreak1980, now a personal question.
Do you have any downloaded mp3, software, textures or movies on your computer?
Muziekfreak1980 miles
Apr 18th, 2010
As i said your full of it then your not even flagged to begin with.
And yes i tested that system myself (i had the beta version even) that what you say does not work IF YOU HAVE BEEN FLAGGED or using a copybot capeable client.
And that has diddely to do with IM detection. Skills has been pretty open towards ppl that think the can simply put of there media and then walk pass it. It is to simple has little to with the “mictorsoft” cool typo btw i mean that lol vs apple as in the protect there ass that way story.
Simply there is no use denying that (if you say that it would be true) think about it.
So yah i tried it sorry did not work for me, and i know by now that most here even know and agree on since that “trick” was brought into this world. EVERYBODY tried it all of sudden and …failed.
So you must be having one of those special comps or whatever because did not work for the gross who tried it so far (as far as i could read here and there)
Sure i download, textures i PAY, movies i download correct. Uhmm remind you how much sony put in there protection system (records) and the till today even still untouched blueray (ps3)
So your point is, you do it too so im a hypocrite. I got the right to protect my product anyway that i see fit, sure sony will hate me for downloading there records. Like i hate the ones thats are on a stealing path throughout sl.
But heeij does not take away i MAY and DO so protect myself as good as i can. The do that too with sucess and failures so be it. Thats the game is it not?
Now what disturbs me most, is that you previously or the other poster simply “hates” the entire system. His name is content creator, so i assume that man/woman creates inworld nice stuff for its residents.
Then why hate a system, that can AID you in protecting your work?
Thats what i really do not get, i do get the “the steal my data the bastards should be banned” story by now.
So far LL is condoning it, and yes maybe im a hypocrite but are you not? Are we all saints in what we say and do…
Right…:D
Doc
Apr 18th, 2010
@Muziekfreak1980
ok, heres what i did.
fist i TPd in a protected sim (akeyo) and had media off.
nothing happend.
then i turned media on.
nothing happend.
then i left the sim. and came back with media ON.
and my alt was banned. (it seems it only checks it right after the arrival)
I logged out, changed IP, turned media OFF, and came back with a other alt to exactly that sim.
guess what.
nothing happend.
my other alt wasnt effected in any way by that syem.
i didnt get a bann, nothing.
i tried it a few times just to be sure.
“….So you must be having one of those special comps or whatever because did not work for the gross who tried it so far…”
nope, its a well known viewer form emeralds blacklist.
Artoo can be happy that im not a evil copybotter.
“…So your point is, you do it too so im a hypocrite….”
Yes, i guess the most sellers in SL that cry about copybotters are Hypocrits.
They use stolen RL designs, stolen software and stolen textures to make profit, and start to cry, when someone copybots their stuff.
“…Now what disturbs me most, is that you previously or the other poster simply “hates” the entire system…..”
Iook, in my case its very simple.
when i logged in SL the first time, i accepted that LL is gathering data about me.
They have their TOS, i didnt really like it, but i accepted them.
But i do not accept, that a private person, specially a private person with that background is gathering data about me or atleast has a system running that could easaly do that.
And i do not accept that a private person tries to contorl wich software i use to connect to SL.
I dont accept it when superman does it, and i dont accept that, when a Furry or someone else does it.
Its kinda hard for me to understand why you cant understand that some people think like that
Muziekfreak1980 miles
Apr 18th, 2010
Im going to say one more thing about this whole topic. Because its obvious that the camp that want it gone is not going to get what the want so here some facts that SO FAR are in effect
*CDS is here to protect (hypocrite or not, your a hypocrite aswell thinking that of others you think about that one for a change)
*CDS does gather information…or does it not? That you name gets logged (UUID) thats not personal information seen the fact our pixlelated asses in the end belong to LL to begin with.
* So far the TOS breaches, are all based on indirect “make fit” regulations. Purely by a group of ppl that want to justify there thoughts and well it is safe to say hate towards the system.
*CDS remains in the field, disspite all the attempts to get it of the grid of allready various angry ppl (as far as i read) that got banned by it or find there “privacy” breached.
Wakeup…its internet, are we really that safe to all what we do on i-net? No …Did gemini industry (to get on the final part of your essay here) force you to use a other viewer no.
YOu got banned with a viewer that has been blacklisted WITH GOOD UNDERLYING FACTS that it is capeable of copying. Now what you say is “if i want to use neillife/cocolate ectra then that is my choice not theres”
Well im glad the stop you from getting to unwanted places. Because everyone who has a tat of sl expierence KNOWS the viewers that the block atm. Are just the ones that are flagged by LL aswell. The will ban you for it just as hard and fast as the cds does.
I do understand that some ppl, think like that. I hop you do understand that “privacy” is a very *cough* lameass understanding in this digital world or any other for that matter.
Want privacy, by a ps3, xbox,wii and certainly not plugin your i-net. See my point too.
With one difference, the CDS bans just temporary if your not a offender that keeps on trying.
Doc
Apr 18th, 2010
so the conclusion is, that you trust that person and are sure that she doesnt abuse her system to track your SL day (would be easy to do, because everyone gets controled), or bann you just for fun from huderts of sims or do whatever other funny stuff.
and i dont.
Ted
Apr 18th, 2010
What part of “an lsl script isn’t going to protect your data” do you not understand? You don’t even have to be on a sim to copy anything.
If you want to pay money for a simple sensor(), timer(); llAddToLandBanList(), script… fine.
You’ve plainly stated that if you turn off media, that the script doesn’t even work. I would be asking for a refund from this newb coder.
Tux Winkler
Apr 18th, 2010
@ Muziekfreak1980
I wanted not to comment any more on this subject, but . . .
“Because everyone who has a tat of sl expierence KNOWS the viewers that the block atm. Are just the ones that are flagged by LL aswell. The will ban you for it just as hard and fast as the cds does. ”
LL wouldn’t ban you for using any viewer, historically. And (a big and) by the ones flagged by LL I asume you mean the ones that fail to qualify/register for the TPV policy? In which case every viewer except LL’s own, and four others. So from your statement will all the other viewers trigger a ban? I think not. Will LL ban on these other viewers? I doubt it, they formed the policy as a giant get out cause.
Ted
Apr 18th, 2010
llShout(0, “Warnyng: Protected by CopyBot Cliant Senser v2.382b.33749sn5f.
\n
\n
Hold it right there Mister, we kant see if you have media terned on or not.. but we are certin you are here to steel our primotves and stuff. We arz content craters. We hav the rite to protekt are buldz.
\n
\n
You no, the ones with seems you could drive a truck thru.\n
You no, the ones where you can see daylite through the cornerz.\n
You no, the ones where you fly at 125M and they flickers on and off as if they are fallin through our simul8ter.
\n
\n
So, we gotcha. You got 30 secondz to remove urself before ur eye candie privs be tirminated. We “can” ban ya!
\n
\n
Next tyme, ya better come bak with your medea terned on so we see if your a theef. Ideot!”);
content creator
Apr 18th, 2010
@ Muziekfreak1980 miles
i never said that i hate the CDS system
what i said was that it is a waiste of money its worthless
use of the patameter –noquicktime DOES work
and you are not protected by CDS
and YES im a content creator
and i use a very secure system provided by LL for FREE
most of my items are as contents in a box
or in a vendor with a script i wrote
so my items in my shop are secure
but i sell them so my items are also on the grid where they can be copied
conclusion your prims are NEVER save for a botter
NOTHING is save for a botter
except scripts
content creator
Apr 18th, 2010
if i download the source code from LL and mod the source so the viewer can copy your prims but I dont change the name and compile it then CDS is again WORTHLESS because CDS ( skills ) think i use the standard viewer
you are never save by using CDS
i hope you understand what im trying to make clear to you
and still i dont hate CDS or skills
he is very clever to make money with a system that doesnt work
Concerned Avatar
Apr 19th, 2010
I have no issue with CDS detecting, kicking and banning people using flagged viewers. That’s fair enough — that’s protection. My problem with CDS lies with its database, because that goes beyond protection to “punishment”. If someone comes to a sim in an accepted viewer (SL standard, Emerald, what-have-you) they shouldn’t be ejected because they once logged in using a flagged viewer. What’s the point of that? how does it benefit the sim to eject someone in a “safe” viewer? It doesn’t — it merely punishes the user for a perceived previoous offense.
I say “perceived” because I can envision scenerios where somone gets flagged inappropriately due to extenuating circumstances. Even if an appeal is granted, and the user’s name is removed from the database, it does nothing to counter any bans he may have picked up simply by travelling across sims.
Let me reiterate: I don’t have a problem with detecting, kicking and banning copybot viewers. The existence of the database has a rather smug “that’ll learn ya” feel to it that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Terminus Est
Apr 20th, 2010
@ Ted
“You keep mentioning Emerald. Sorry, but Emerald wouldn’t be able to comply to the terms either unless Linden is behind Emerald.”
Fair comment, Ted. You may be interested in the new updated version of Emerald being distributed today apparently has the Export feature disabled so it will be compliant with ToS before the April 30 deadline. What happens to users of non-compliant viewers from May 1st remains to be seen – will LL lock down SL at some point and prevent people logging in without a compliant viewer? Will they take action against those found using a viewer that does not meet the ToS, up to and including the deletion of the account, loss of inventory, loss of Linden Dollars, etc?
Should LL close their grid to non-compliant viewers, the Raison d’être for CDS would be gone and the system would only consist of automatically detecting and banning AV names on an aging database which could no longer be updated by new detections. Would the reported 2000+ land owners still pay L$700 per month for a tool that stops individuals entering with “inert” viewers? Gemini Industries can only hope that LL does not restrict logins.
Let me see… 2000 times 700 = L$1400000 per month or L$16800000 per annum – equal to $67200 in real money.
Interesting times, indeed.
Orion
Apr 20th, 2010
@Terminus – interesting you should mention an update from Emerald… Maybe just a temporary outage, but at least from my end their website has disappeared!
Gundel Gaukelei
Apr 20th, 2010
@Terminus Est
Should LL close their grid to non-compliant viewers, ….
We can stop right here, because thats not possible for obvious reasons.
Ted
Apr 20th, 2010
@Terminus
Just because someone says that the software complies, doesn’t mean that it does. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it doesn’t either. To comply, you would need comply and adhere to Linden’s complete TPVP. If you are willing to take the risk upon yourself as the terms indeed state you would have to do, fair enough.
It’s one thing to state that your software complies, it’s another to state that the developer complies to the terms. If the developer complies, they are fully responsible for what happens with the client and their release(s) according to the TPVP no matter the disclaimers they use to state otherwise.
That’s my view on it. I don’t believe the gnu/gpl and the TPVP are compatible, no matter whom says their client and developers are in compliance.
Miss J
Apr 20th, 2010
now they are compliant stfu
Ted
Apr 20th, 2010
@Terminus
Oh, and the above has nothing to do with the argument that Linden is making it impossible to backup your own works, download your own works as well as other software that is licensed under provisions that allow. Fair Use, in other words. This is a completely separate argument.
As a client developer, why would anyone agree to Linden’s terms of no fair use? To eliminate the works that has already allowed one to backup their own data, to download, use, and disseminate the works as the original license dictates.
There is a common mistake made that some believe that there is no middle ground between those that believe in open computing (in which many times the software is distributed at no cost), and those that believe that they have a right to charge for their works and be granted protection from those that might use their works against their will (steal).
There is middle ground. And that is within the license agreements themselves. If an item is free, or licensed under various open licenses, those items should indeed be available to all and under the usage agreement of that license. In other words, there is nothing within the BSD, Creative Commons, GNU/GPL and other licenses that states that such works “must” be used within Linden’s grid, or under the terms of Linden Lab. In direct opposition, those licenses are designed to keep companies like Linden from doing exactly what they are by not allowing such to be used under Fair Use and in accordance to the license agreements.
If you want warm water, you don’t turn the faucet all the way one way or the other. You put it in the middle. Linden has no balance and would rather scald or freeze than to allow for a balanced agreement that allows Fair Use that grants the rights of the original agreements.
When you accept Lindens’ terms as they stand, you are stating to me that you do not agree with Fair Use, the licenses and agreements that allow for the works to be copied, removed, used for whatever purpose under the provisions of that license. You are also stating to me that you believe Linden’s terms can over ride such license agreements.
I beg to differ. Any item within Linden’s domain that is licensed under provisions that allow for the removal, use, and dissemination should indeed not be subject to terms that appose such freedom.
You are agreeing to tyranny. But that is your issue.
Terminus Est
Apr 20th, 2010
@ Ted, you have put your finger on it. Exactly.
@ Orion, it is probably high demand upon their server. It should pass.
@ Gundel, it was merely a speculation, not a probability.
@ Miss J, well…I am sorry you seem so vexed.
@ Concerned Avatar, yes, exactly so. This is the foundation upon which a complaint against the creators and managers of CDS might be based. That their actions go beyond what is necessary and the excesses constitute abuse. My client has waited a week for a reply to her appeal. I wait her instruction. Thank you all for the illuminating debate!
T.E.
content creator
Apr 21st, 2010
@ Ted
well if you have a shop in sl you have to agree to the TOS or you will lose everything you have, and all the money you put in sl
and i think LL CANT forbid me to make a backup of all my items
I’m dutch and we have the right by law to make a backup of all the digital stuff we own and what we bought with real money
and I’m not sure but I think its the same for the rest of europe too
Ted
Apr 21st, 2010
@ content creator
“@ Ted
well if you have a shop in sl you have to agree to the TOS or you will lose everything you have, and all the money you put in sl”
Ted@sl = 2005 to 2010 RIP – Done deal. Cannot agree to terms. Deleted an inventory that cost in excess of 2,000USD. Close to 28K or better items.
“and i think LL CANT forbid me to make a backup of all my items
I’m dutch and we have the right by law to make a backup of all the digital stuff we own and what we bought with real money”
Then you are breaking the Linden Terms. Period. So you obviously do not agree to Linden’s terms either, but just want to play their game … “your way”. You are the one breaking the terms. I don’t have an account.
Orion
Apr 21st, 2010
@Ted – Welcome to the club! I wasted a whole lot of money during my time on SL and was forced to throw it all away when I deleted my account for more or less the same reasons. Seriously, LL really should consider changing the “Buy” button to something like “Pay to Use”. At least that implies you don’t actually own what you’re paying for, right? After all, their TOS does more or less state “We own all your bits!”
Blegh – sour grapes. The SL side of my virtual life is over. Only viable option is OpenSim.
Ted
Apr 21st, 2010
Yes Orion.
I seen this coming for a long time and moved everything to opensim two years ago. The issue still remains that Linden is harboring the content no matter the license. However, to comply with their ludicrous Terms of Service and other policies is just stating that you agree to such tyranny. The TPVP was the last straw for me.
My inventory was much more likely to consist of around 10K USD over the five years. But I stated 2K just to not over state the amount. In reality I supported content to the tune of around 1.5K to 2K per year X 5 years. That would indeed by around 10K in inventory. And I’m quite sure I had that. And of course this had nothing to do with the many hundreds of items I created either.
I didn’t feel good deleting everything. But I finally came to the conclusion that Linden wasn’t going to support what they stated they believe in. They don’t support freedom, they just support looking good by open sourcing the client. And in fact, are in my opinion against the law and wouldn’t hold up in court with the terms of service. There are quite a few tired of Linden Lab.
I’m just blessed I saw all this coming and started working on opensimulator when I did two years ago. I have some some nice builds completed.
It’s just a shame what we are witnessing. Linden for sure was to close off the gates and insist that they own your data on their grid. All the while stating that they support your IP rights.
The same happens with governments that happen with corporations. People beg for security, and give up their freedom in the process. That and the freedoms of all who enjoyed SL. In return, they have lower sales because people like myself that spend money in SL will no longer support content creators due to their lack of education. Due to their lack of understanding that not all license agreements can by any means be construed as their own, and that many other license agreements need be upheld within Linden’s grid without Linden stating such licenses null and void as they have.
“Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security.” Benjamin Franklin
Muziekfreak1980 miles
Apr 21st, 2010
@ Content creator
In dutch then…
Waar staat die wetgeving dan aangegeven dat jij dat mag?
Ben ik wel benieuwd na, Ik stem iig voor de piraten ^^!!
English translation, i asked him were in our law (dutch), that is written that we have the right to do so.
Senban Babii
Apr 27th, 2010
This is about to start in 45 minutes if anyone wants to come down and take part.
“This week Designing Worlds invites you to join us in our Northpoint studio at 2pm SLT as we investigate the controversial Client Detection System, better known as CDS.
This is causing a great deal of angry arguments on forums and bulletin boards related to Second Life. And there have been some horrible threats made against people and stores using the system, as well as against the creators – even on the official Linden commerce forums.
So what is CDS, what is the abuse that it seeks to remedy and how are content creators reacting to it? We’ll be putting these questions to Dirk Talamasca, a long-time SL developer and mentor familiar with the history and issues involved; Maxwell Graf, the well-known content developer and the owner of Rustica,and to Phox ModularSystems, who worked on the CDS development team.
And we’ll be looking at some of the issues that have been raised too – whether CDS has the power to identify use of browsers historically, or by alts. And what happens if you feel that you have been unfairly accused?
And we’ll be asking … is this a problem for residents to tackle, or should this level of protection be the responsibility of Linden Lab?
Normally a show like this would take place in the studio but we’re acutely aware that if we try this, it could lead to people attempting to attack the sim. We’ve therefore decided to hold the discussion at a remote location. But there will be a way for our studio audience – and for people at home – to take part in the show. Set your browser to http://treet.tv/chat, and you can join the IRC chat channel to ask questions or make comments for our panel.
The show starts at 2pm SLT, but you should be in our Northpoint studios by 1.30pm to make sure of getting a seat. Or tune in at 2pm SLT on Tuesday for the live show – where you can now chat with other audience members and even some of the participants during the show – or catch it later in the week on our shows page on the Treet.tv web site.”
Terminus Est
Apr 28th, 2010
Interesting broadcast at…
http://treet.tv/shows/designingworlds/episodes/client-detection-sys
And the implications of the new ToS upon this issue have yet to emerge. See…
http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/04/27/enforcing-the-new-third-party-viewer-policy
Coincidentally, the fine folk at CDS have steadfastly declined to reply to my client’s requests for the outcome of her appeal against being placed on their database. The lack of a formal reply might also become part of the complaints against Messrs Skills Hak et al, subject to the enforcement by LL commencing April 30 when malicious viewers are proscribed.
Ben
Apr 29th, 2010
I’m with Ted on this. the biggest criers about copybotting are more often than not idiot builders that create crap and clothing makers that make standard, freebie level clothes.
The actual good builders that have been copybotted just shrug and move on without hardly a word.
People take SL too seriously
SLz
May 8th, 2010
Here’s a method on how to get around CDS. I also won’t spell-out the instructions. I’ll tell you what you need, you guys figure it out. Be sure to pass the information around.
Viewers used: HXO and SL Chocolate (I’m sure others will work)
+ SL Freedom
If you want some overkill, use something like SMAC to change your MAC address every so often or another MAC changer
I would suggest using these parameters on the viewer (again, some overkill but it works anyways)
–noprobe –noquicktime –novoice –channel “Cool VL Viewer”
X
May 9th, 2010
http://secondlife-gemini-cds-users.blogspot.com/
Dan
May 27th, 2010
I am a content creator, and I copybot my own items all the time. Emerald doesn’t run on my computer, which makes me have to use an illegal viewer. Do I steal other people’s objects with it? No. Could I? Absolutely! But I don’t. Should my name ever be entered into this database, it would cause me more trouble than I’d like to have to deal with.
Also, @Ted, Nice job switching to Linux. You made the right choice!
Terminus Est
May 27th, 2010
For information:
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/40930-copybot-ban-link-system-clear-39.html#post942728
Cryo
May 27th, 2010
You might want it.
http://pastebin.com/PzteemvZ
have fun
Dave Bell
May 29th, 2010
I can never figure out just what it is about a copybot-capable viewer that an in-game script can detect. I don’t claim to be a programmer.
But, after the fuss about viewer identity strings in the TPVP. I wonder if all the guy making a copybot needs to do is leave alone the identity strings in Snowglobe, while the necessary copying functions are modified to ignore permissions.
I can’t see this script doing anything subtle and processing intensive, or it’s going to be dead meat when script-load restrictions take effect. Maybe the Viewer 2.0 handling of no-copy clothing will do more to discourage copybot use–that can be something really annoying to honest customers. It’s not the moustache-twirling super-villains of the copybot world who get caught by this.
anomous
May 29th, 2010
@ben
Yah thats why almost a more then handfull top content creators shrug as you call it in COURT and move on after wating tons of cash
Get your facts straight mate…read the blogs.
Tayste
May 29th, 2010
@content creator:
“conclusion your prims are NEVER save for a botter NOTHING is save for a botter except scripts”
Scripts are not safe, either.
contractionsistiosphilosfer
May 29th, 2010
Im not english but here goes.
This entire topic you read pseudo arguments of ppl. I mean really? You all are lawyers/sl gurus/sl experts all wrapped in one neat little package or something?
If this tool was so wrong, then it would have been BANNED by now. Wake-up with you privacy “whores” what privacy we talk about here?
IP? Wouw intressting to know what my ip is….not changes everytime.
Were i live? Intressting your going to steal me now!! OMG im so scared now.
Get over yourselfs, topics like this create mass panic over stupidity im sorr but that is how i totally see it. Stop telling bullshit and simply LIKE or DISLIKE it, post a comment and done!
Its like some here try to convice the bible to few none believers. Stop doing that..
Yay
Jun 1st, 2010
you guys are nuts, you love to get traced everywhere you go, why dont you go outside and get a RIFD chip right away
harry
Jun 2nd, 2010
I think your nuts, that you even suggest that your that important. What is there to trace numbnuts…
A ip? wouw…
Erpep
Jun 3rd, 2010
Dear naive’s, there are several SL clients that this shit of detector can’t smell. This means that we are copying and giving away as we please, stop dreaming the your SL business, the only who becomes richest is the bastard of Linden, professional thief, data? ask how many people unjustly stolen your real money without the right to defense with the excuse of its TOS rules.
muziekfreak1980 miles
Jun 4th, 2010
**Dear naive’s**
Nice….
**there are several SL clients that this shit of detector**
If you read this tread, or better yet the CDS advert it nowere claims to be able to detect them all. It is not a magic bullet no “alarm” is in the world.
**This means that we are copying and giving away as we please**
So your simply a guy that loves to steal others works because your too lazy to learn a actually trade..shame on you. OR is it just as a point out to all of the ppl here that it is possible.
Ever heard of GLintercept or the good old fashioned SLbot (the are undetectable by cds) so thats nothing new. Sl is easy to steal, however the GOAL was/is of this system to discourage ppl from doing so. I can tell it works…i know ppl that “backup” skins. The think twice now of doing it.
**the only who becomes richest is the bastard of Linden, professional thief, data**
Here we all agree i think, but yet again you singed the agreement. Nobody forces you to conduct business inworld or on xstreet for that matter. That is a free choice, that you buy stuff on the grid is always your own choice. And thus stop ranting on LL for that, what i DO AGREE on is that the CONDONE/ do not monitor stolen warezz on there marketplace.
**ask how many people unjustly stolen your real money without the right to defense with the excuse of its TOS rules.**
You never capeable of stealing somebody cash as far as i know. Not even with so called “objects” you give to someone else. The permission system ALWAYS have to ask permission to take lindens. When you click yes, then it kindah confirms how idiotic that person must have been.
TOS regulations, are not even real regulations…it is a SERVICE agreement. There is a difference its more to protect them, then to point out to you what the rules are ^^.
slz
Jun 6th, 2010
This is a very simple concept…
If noskills wak, phox-up, fractured head and losers from emerald/modular want to create a system which is MADE BY THIEVES and GRIEFERS then we’ll get around cds and screw with them.
While some of the idiots here try and protect emerald/modular, the real people with brains will continue to put the screws to them. i’ve already shown several cds clients ways around it and they’ve now dropped their subscriptions.
and btw, there’s a free alternative instead of paying protection money to the emerald/modular mob.
https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=2324793