Of Visionary Art and Unpaid Tier: Ina Centaur vs Linden Lab
by Alphaville Herald on 15/06/11 at 3:02 am
by Lora Constantine
Two years and L$15 million fundraised later for an arts nonprofit based completely in Second Life, Ina Centaur gives up the warcry that galvanized hundreds of thousands to donate.
“The arts vs. tier” was Ina Centaur's call - a call that united the residents of Second Life to support the once-heretical cause of contributing not to a real life fund, but “to create good within Second Life for the world to thrive from.” With her account locked and due for deletion, under the weight of a hefty unpaid bill, it seems that the inevitable has happened – art has lost to tier.
On first blush, this sad tale seems the classic Second Life story – builder creates and falls in love with their SL creations, becomes a slave to tier, and is forced to part with their creation when they become unable to pay tier. Thousands of creators have suffered this same vicious cycle of creation and forced abandoning of what they create on Second Life. As with any game with uneven odds, “the house always wins.” Ergo, tier will always survive the resident and their creations. This is simply the way of Second Life, nothing more.
And yet, if you look at the whole picture, there is truly something remarkable in Ina Centaur's case. Most ventures that become self-sufficient for tier on Second Life are either externally funded or based on microeconomic funds from an evident inworld business. Centaur's sLiterary Initiative, however, was based on the doubly disruptive idea that a nonprofit cause dedicated to improving the arts in Second Life can garner both traction and significant funding completely from inworld means. And, it worked – despite the odds, Centaur achieved the mass support of her idealist's nonprofit arts enterprise in a materialistic Second Life.
The emphasis is on the past tense. At this juncture, it seems clear that Linden Lab will be winning this war on tier vs. the arts. Yet, on further consideration, this may be a false victory for the Lab.
The immediate question the destruction of Ina Centaur's content raises is this: “Should virtual content exist only if it is financially viable enough to support a disproportionate tier?”
The real world analogue might go like this, “If you can't pay your rent, you get kicked out, and if you can't pay the other bills, your stuff gets repo'd.” Complications to this view arise when you consider what you can do in real life, vs what you cannot do in Second Life, when finances reach this level. In real life, you'd try calling up friends and family. When your account is locked in Second Life, you become unable to communicate “as yourself” with those on your contact list. In real life, you don't get put on death row for bankruptcy. In Second Life, you lose all of your creations, and your avatar as well – effectively, a virtual death penalty.
The natural question that one might ask is this: “Is there really no way that Linden Lab can preserve a resident's content?”
Currently, neither Linden Lab nor Second Life provides any support for preserving or exporting a resident's content. Third party tools exist, but are imperfect in their ability to export rezzed builds on an entire sim – even if the builds are created by the owner, script functionality and missing prims are bound to arise, and the process of fixing the bugs becomes arduous.
Content created for Second Life exists in a unique ecosystem based on a hastily-designed prims-based platform. The fact that this labor cannot be exported renders the content as worthless in environments beyond the Second Life and OpenSim systems – indeed, the Lab certainly treats the content as such. The fact that there is no way to preserve the content without paying tier fees mean that everyone is fighting Ina's fight when they cash out those hard-earned Lindens to pay tier. We are all fighting to keep our content alive on Second Life, turning the other face on realizing that we've all become slave to tier. We don't want to lose what we created, but there is no other way to keep it, but to pay tier.
When you look at the number of OpenSim startups, you notice the trend of lack of content. It's an unfortunate matter, that many are hopeful that time would ameliorate. Despite latency issues, Second Life has a wealth of content, but does Linden Lab value any of this content? It seems that a creator's work is expendable to the Lab. Indeed, the platform thrives as a virtual world because people are willing to create for free for Second Life:
Second Life, as a virtual world, is unique in that it inspires its residents to “crowdsource” over US $1.6 billion per year in “unpaid labor” content creation (metrics released from Joe Miller, Kapp and Driscoll, 2007). Considering that Apple's wide-reaching iOS ecosystem only garners third party developers US $2 billion a year, that's a very, very significant number.
Unlike Apple, however, Linden Lab is unable to pay its content creators. Thus, the Lab's strategy and pull in the realm of virtual worlds, is to take content creation for granted. The Lab has a history of getting all that – and more – for free. Virtual creations, photos and machinima's, if selected for usage by Linden Lab, is considered an honor in Second Life. In the creation of its “themed mainlands,” the Lab has also managed to “inspire” builders to create and relinquish all rights to their virtual content at pennies above minimum wage – again, this is considered a “great honor.” For creators: by design, Second Life is a tantalizing but dangerous sweatshop.
There will always be the outliers that will keep the dreamers in, and the others hoping. But, for every Stiletto Moody or Anshe Chung, there will be hundreds of thousands of failed businesses – or modest businesses, barely achieving the same returns as a struggling mom'n'pop shop in real life. If Second Life were a country, its per capita would rank among the lowest – down there, next to nascent African nations, still wartorn for lack of stability.
The point I argue is that if Linden Lab were to default by deleting Ina Centaur's account and content, it would mean that not only does the Lab not value its resident's creations, but it also has no respect for the time and love they put into it.
For those who don't know the story, Ina Centaur locked herself up in a room for two years to create content for her sLiterary Projects – primarily Primtings and mShakespeare (formerly SL Shakespeare Company). She started from a single prim in an empty sandbox, with no land of her own. She created, and people donated. She put these donated funds into tier. Her creation mantra was simple, “I'd put in my time, but not my money.” What she has achieved through thousands of hours of creating and in-kind labor is phenomenal. On any other platform, it would be enough content to create a standalone game of high caliber.
On Second Life, however, Ina Centaur effectively has to sacrifice herself, just to make a statement that her content is worth something.
There's love, and then there's the inevitable destruction of it in Second Life...
At0m0 Beerbaum
Jun 15th, 2011
I stopped reading at false victory for LL.
They just dont care. They only care if the game looks appealing long enough to sucker in enough addicts, like ina, to give them money, that’s why you cannot (without copious amounts of copybot and exporting your stuff off grid) normally export your creations out of SL.
That’s the trap, and it works very well, you never own your content, you create something that immediately from the very point of creation, ceased being yours, you have mind share in it and that’s the hook.
“Nice creation you have there, shame something should happen to it, pay us money and keep playing and you can keep it around a little longer.”
That effectively anchors you into their world (it has never been your world, ever.) and they profit handsomely from it.
Protests, attacks, etc are all part of making money in the end.
Allowing superhero groups to fuck with customers? Might scare off a small minority of the userbase, but they’ll pay out the nose to be able to go around dicking with people while in costume, more than the people they scare off. Griefers? hell most griefers end up getting addicted, and what’s even more fun, you can hold the banhammer over their heads forever because of shit they pulled in the past, and that their accounts break the rules, but they will keep coming back in defiance, thinking they’re beating the system, while becoming more and more a part of it, and giving more money. So you get to have a little fun with some of your addicts, abusing them in ways that would get most other businesses knee-deep in shit. Not to mention, the war between griefers and vigilantes keeps drama and interest so the addicts don’t get jaded too early and jump off before squeezing them dry.
I used to think that LL was a very incompetent company, but no, it was all a show. They know exactly what they’re doing, and that’s why, even after the bubble burst about 4 years ago, they are still making profit. They might be a little moronic in some areas, but in general, they know how to create a system that will keep the desperately addicted in, and shelling out their income, allowances, savings, welfare or social security checks on, for this, they will not be going away for a little while longer, pending someone comes out with a serious competitor to it (doubtful at this point.)
No false victories here, any fight against LL is an illusion, everything is part of their money making scheme, their world, their way.
Loki
Jun 15th, 2011
@At0m0 you should have read past ‘false victory for LL.’
Thorgal McGillivary
Jun 15th, 2011
“No false victories here, any fight against LL is an illusion, everything is part of their money making scheme, their world, their way.”
and most important their business…
why should they keep my stuff up if I dont want to pay for it? You’re just renting the crayons and drawing board
Senban Babii
Jun 15th, 2011
I remember a couple of years ago when I was with La Performance, based on Primtings (and Shakespeare?) The audience would make donations to the dancers and we’d basically just donate them straight into trying to raise funds so the whole thing would keep going.
As someone said on a recent comment on New World Notes, we can gaze in awe at the breathtaking builds and sims that have taken months to create. But we visit and then go back to our infohubs and clubs, built from basic prims and bought straight out of standard catalogues. I’d argue that’s because primarily Second Life is a social experience rather than a creative one. People might visit and even appreciate the cool sims but they live in the basic ones. That’s why the amazing builds struggle to pay tier and rely on donations and wealthy patrons. I guess this is pretty much the same problem faced by the arts in meatlife. The problem is that the arts contribute to culture but little to the economy and that’s why Linden Lab don’t give a flying rat’s poop. You can have art but you’ve got to support it yourself and if you can’t support it yourself, your art gets thrown out into the street. It’s rubbish but it’s true unfortunately.
It will be a real shame if Ina’s work is lost :/
marilyn murphy
Jun 15th, 2011
it’s sort of elitist art isn’t it? i was addicted to sl for a few years. i don’t know anyone in my real life who was or is. our creations in sl might be “art”, but it cannot be bought or sold except by a very few who also share the same addiction. maybe elitist is the wrong word, but it’s made for a very small population to appreciate. “art for the masses” it definetly is not. the creator realizes this going in, but its sort of like, if 200 people like what you do, its worth it. so, get the satisfaction you can out of it, understanding the limited use/appreciation/understanding.
marilyn murphy
Jun 15th, 2011
or, make a sex bed or mess with land and make money.
Henry Darkthief
Jun 15th, 2011
So, what happened to the money that was raised? Why wasn’t the tier paid? If the fundraising was so successful, then what happened?
Big Bully LL kicking out an artist for unpaid tier isn’t the real story. The real story is what happened to the “L$15 million fundraised”.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 15th, 2011
God what nonsense. So, if someone *voluntarily* enters into an agreement with Linden Labs in which they utilize the Lab’s platform to create content, knowing full well tier costs required for land, and latter decide it’s too expensive, they are “slaves?”
Comparing someone’s inability or unwillingness to pay for services with slavery is not only an insult to those who suffered under that archaic and barbaric institution; it’s so ridiculously hyperbolas so as to render the entire argument comical.
“Is there really no way that Linden Lab can preserve a resident’s content?”
Here you are asking if LL should provide its services for free or reduced cost. Essentially, you’re asking LL to reduce its profitability (spend its own money) to give you what you think you’re entitled to. It’s quite easy to lobby to spend other people’s money on what you want. Why doesn’t the author lobby to spend her own money on these services?
I would like to say that the creations in SL are so important that Lora Constantine should pay for them herself. She is, after all, advocating the same for LL, so I’ll just use the same argument on her. Why shouldn’t she pay for other people’s server space to display their creations?
The obvious answer is that she probably doesn’t feel it worth her own money. So, why does she feel it’s worth other people’s money?
The fact you rented a studio to paint in and are really happy with what you’ve created does not obligate the landlord to lower your rent. If you didn’t like the rent price, why’d you rent the studio in the first place? After all, you wouldn’t like being forced to pay the rent on someone’s studio simply because they created something in that studio and couldn’t afford the rent when they agreed to it. And if you can’t generate enough revenue from your creations to sustain your production costs, then clearly, you have yet to create a product with enough value to be worth the cost of production. Why should worthlessness be subsidized by others?
If you don’t want to pay tier, don’t pay it. You’re not a choiceless victim of tyranny. You’re a consumer making decisions as to how to spend your money. It’s one thing to complain as a consumer about high prices. It’s another thing to compare the situation to slavery. You have choices. Get over yourself.
Nelson Jenkins
Jun 15th, 2011
SL isn’t a “reality”. It’s a private business. There’s a lot of differences between getting the death penalty in RL and having your account banned in SL. For example, if there were a “total export” feature when you got banned, where would you store/use that content? Second Life is a proprietary platform, all you could do is try to upload it to an OpenSim grid.
Nelson Jenkins
Jun 15th, 2011
Apparently my fat finger hit Tab right before I hit Space and it decided to post. That’s what I get for using a netbook.
As I was saying, you could upload the content to an OpenSim grid but you couldn’t do anything with a list of fake names. The only way to get that back is to create another account, something LL doesn’t want to encourage.
Nonetheless, the fact remains that if it isn’t sustainable, it’s just not going to fly. This is the same conundrum as social security and other socialistic government tactics – do you let those who can’t make it just lose, or do you waste money on them so they can pretend to succeed? I think you can justify grants for some things which are critical to society as a whole (emergency medical care, protection from criminals & fire, etc.) but art doesn’t cut the mustard here, and I wouldn’t want my tax money going to an unsustainable art gallery.
The real question here is how much money did she need? L$15M is no small number, that’s in the ballpark of US$60,000. Was she renting half of the grid? Where did the money go, too? Did she just take it and leave? Something’s fishy here.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Jun 15th, 2011
You know who else who didn’t appreciate the sacrifice of the on-line artists?
Hitler!
It’s only a small step from talking smack about e-artists to gassing furries and invading small countries.
Yep
Jun 15th, 2011
“You know who else who didn’t appreciate the sacrifice of the on-line artists?”
Nelson?
oh Hitler NVM
Yep
Jun 15th, 2011
Go getem Tiger
Pappy Enoch
Jun 15th, 2011
Here am what to do: squat on empty land, git drunk, raise hell, shoot stuff you don’t like, git ready for the end o’ the fake world.
If’n you wants Hamlet, go read NWN. I prefers me that-there play Titus Androgynous, the sorry tale of a old-school hillbilly. It got buckets o’ blood, fornycashun, heads chopped off, and buckets o’ blood.
Now THAT am some high drama from the Bard o’ Stratford Holler.
Reader
Jun 15th, 2011
“You know who else who didn’t appreciate the sacrifice of the on-line artists?”
Ralph Kramden
Pappy Enoch
Jun 15th, 2011
@Reader, but Norton and Trixie had them a guitar on the wall in his apartment. Ralph must o’ knowed he had him a couple o’ sensitive souls rite upstairs. It takes a big heart to crawl round them-there NYC sewers every dang day, like Norton done did.
Alex Ponebshek
Jun 15th, 2011
Second Life is a business first and foremost. Linden Lab does not give a crap whether your content *should* exist. They care whether you can pay them for their services.
If you are an artist and you care about your content, for the love of god do not leave it to the wims of some self-interested company’s proprietary system. Create it on an opensim grid! Hell, create it on second life, but make sure you export everything and save a copy!
I enjoy second life as a game, but only a game. Come on guys, we all know where Linden Lab’s goals are by now.
Reader
Jun 15th, 2011
Damn straight Alex Ponebshek!
Maria Korolov
Jun 16th, 2011
Meanwhile, some OpenSim grids are increasing donated space (well, they can afford to — storage is super cheap these days and the OpenSim software is free). And you can connect a home-based region to any open grid (such as OSGrid) for free, provided your house has enough bandwidth. And commercial hosting starts at just $10 per region per month.
One interesting grid is Kitely, where you can both upload and download OAR files with a click of a button. They’ve recently been supporting the Frost Art Museum’s South Florida Cultural Consortium Fellowship Exhibition, which runs through August 21: http://www.kitely.com/virtualworld/Xhyra-Graf/Xhyras-Place
(Currently requires Facebook account to login, but more login options coming this fall.)
Kitely is free for everyone through August, when they’ll be rolling out their billing system, but they’re giving extra usage credits to worthwhile projects, to make sure that everyone who wants to can come in and visit.
And, of course, for the self-sufficient crowd, you can do Sim-on-a-stick and carry your whole world around with you on a USB. For free.
paul
Jun 16th, 2011
This may be stating the obvious, but a point of this is that tier is too high, right? to rent enough server space/real estate in SL to make building something fun and interesting costs an arm and a leg, and very few SL business probably generate enough income to pay their tier. I know it is not gonna happen, but i keep thinking that if SL had lower tier, there might be a better experience as more people could afford land. I know that when I get busy with RL, the thought of paying tier on a full sim I am barely using makes me close to bailing on the whole thing…..
AM Oderngrl
Jun 16th, 2011
One assumes that Ina’s sims were getting the nonprofit rate and the tier effectively doubled. Without enough cash to pay out the year-in-advance-at-the-old-rate special good deal, things would have gotten dire pretty fast.
Nelson Jenkins
Jun 16th, 2011
@ paul
The rent is always too damn high.
Nelson Jenkins
Jun 16th, 2011
@ paul (continued)
I just realized how stupid you sounded when you said this:
very few SL business probably generate enough income to pay their tier
Do you happen to own an SL business? Hell, I generated enough income to pay tier when I was a year old selling utter shit. I make more than enough now to afford a full sim, but I prefer to spend it on bills and food. It’s not THAT difficult, especially once you get some market penetration and people know your name.
Besides, what idiot would actually spend money maintaining a business that doesn’t turn a profit? If they can’t pay their tier, how the hell are they still in business? They certainly don’t have a store.
Bottom line is we don’t need any more novelty t-shirt sellers or BIAB resellers. If it’s not sustainable, there’s a reason – nobody wants it, so it’s time to choose a different market.
Senban Babii
Jun 16th, 2011
@Paul
“I know that when I get busy with RL, the thought of paying tier on a full sim I am barely using makes me close to bailing on the whole thing…..”
Funny you should say that because just this morning on NWN, news of another sim closing.
http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2011/06/tesseract-house-second-life.html#more
The reason?
“Trouble is, he’s not in SL enough to justify the monthly land expense.”
The simple hard fact is that people want to make interesting content, they just can’t afford to because of the tier prices. I know, I know, this is not zomgawsh shock news just in. But these two stories just go to prove that the Lab are in effect killing their own product.
The only point I’d add as a general observation is that I don’t think Ina created all this as a business. I think she created something in an attempt to enrich SL culture, to in effect give something to the “community”, using a donation model to sustain it rather than running a business to finance it. This worked! At least until LL shot it in the head with a harpoon i.e. tier prices.
Read this
|
V
http://blog.inacentaur.com/2011/06/04/june-4-2011-i-stand-in-front-of-the-tanks-of-linden-lab/
paul
Jun 16th, 2011
@senban. yep..that’s pretty much the deal!
@nelson. Sure, I often feel stupid paying LL for virtual real estate, but hey, I like to make digital models, i like to build my virtual little world, and I like to have a place to talk to my friends and to fool around with virtual strumpets in relative privacy.
I am a terrible SL business man! My widgets sell only enough to cover half the tier on a full mainland sim on a monthly basis. However, I suppose I could, if I wanted to, invest the necessary time and energy to make my SL business profitable, but that would be just a ridiculous waste of time, energy, and money. SL is a privately owned video game where the owners hold all the cars and that can go belly up at any moment. Could you imagine the morons that put their eggs in THAT basket? no thanks… SL is a leisure time activity, and i will stick to investing in my RL career that fortunately gives me a few extra bucks to blow on the stupid game.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 16th, 2011
@Senban “I think she created something in an attempt to enrich SL culture”
If this creation was enriching SL so much, why wasn’t it sustainable at LL’s prices? If LL doesn’t think it’s profitable to provide such enriching spaces at prices she’s willing to pay, and no one is willing to pay her enough money to have her creations enrich their culture, then clearly, whatever she created just doesn’t have a sustaining value. So, there was really no loss.
I own my own sim and have no trouble meeting LL’s tiers every month. I provide low tiers, a flexible covenant, and a very friendly neighborhood for my tenants. And not a single one of them has been there less than a year. I have very low turnover. In other words, I’ve created something with sustainable value. If that changes and I can no longer generate enough revenue to pay for my sim, then I close it. That’s how this works.
The Anti Herald
Jun 16th, 2011
In other words, as usual on this transsexual softcore pr0n rag, IT’S NOT NEWS.
Pack it in, nothing to see here anymore, show’s over.
Yep
Jun 16th, 2011
I sold my sim and moved to another in Inworldz for about the third of the cost of a LL sim with three times more prims allowed. Pretty stupid to pay 300 USD a month for something that can poof at any second.
Since my sim is only a hobby sim for my use and maybe a few friends, the lack of traffic and bombardments of IM’s when I log in, I find the the silence to be refreshing.
Not that i do not like talking to people, but hey I like some of “my time ” too.
Reader
Jun 16th, 2011
“@ paul
The rent is always too damn high.”
I laughed hard on this SNL moment!
Side note:
There is an uncommonly high level of practical sensibility in this thread as of late. I find it refreshing. And I agree whole heartedly, if it isn’t providing sustainable serious business *anything*, why the **** even bother?
LOL
Jun 16th, 2011
This article totally supports the case for using Copybots to Backup your “IN-GAME” creations….
Rawst Berry
Jun 16th, 2011
More than once I’ve went to a Sim featured in showcase, only to see that it was for sale or already gone. There was one roleplay sim featured in Showcase that survived for a few months after being featured and then went under because they couldn’t pay their tier.
Considering that these people produce free content for Linden Lab’s game, you would think LL would care about preserving it.
As creative and non-profit sims close one by one, Second Life becomes more and more of a giant mall, because stores are the only types of sims which can sustain themselves.
Yep
Jun 16th, 2011
“This article totally supports the case for using Copybots to Backup your “IN-GAME” creations….”
or make backups of items that you bought. Having backup copies of your purchases removes the nail in your foot that seems to anchor people to SL.
Atlouis
Jun 16th, 2011
@Loki – so At0mo didn’t read past “false victory for LL,” you can’t even see two chins past your neckbeard…who cares?
Senban Babii
Jun 16th, 2011
@Persephone
“If this creation was enriching SL so much, why wasn’t it sustainable at LL’s prices? If LL doesn’t think it’s profitable to provide such enriching spaces at prices she’s willing to pay, and no one is willing to pay her enough money to have her creations enrich their culture, then clearly, whatever she created just doesn’t have a sustaining value. So, there was really no loss.”
The human experience is about far more than bottom lines.
I believe that people like Ina attempt to create something that will encourage the human spirit, create reflection and generally provide if only a potential for people to see something or take part in something that causes them to leave the experience cleaner, better people.
Now okay, LL didn’t set out to achieve that per se, they’re just happy to take money for residential sims that provide virtual doll houses for people to play virtual drama with virtual dolls.
The fact that you’re comparing playing virtual landlord and meeting your costs to the idea of a community-sustained project designed to provide something deeper shows that you don’t get it. Her community-funded project *worked*. It was funded just fine until it seems that LL slapped a big price hike into the mix. It became unsustainable not because people no longer wanted it but because people were simply no longer able to fund it. I believe that Ina has simply appealed to LL to try to see further than the bottom line and to find a way to encourage something in SL that raises the spirit rather than cheapens and degrades it.
There was a time when you had non-profit discounts, education discounts and so on. Then it was all got rid of because it was no longer about creating something good. It was all about the bottom line and things like the arts and education don’t bring in the bucks. So they priced them out. The only way now to have such things in SL is if they are entirely self-funded and who can afford that in this day and age?
But that’s okay Persephone. Soon SL will have nothing left but nice little sims chopped into nice little bits with nice little residents paying nice little landlords. You’ll be the perfect customer in a sterile, sanitised, shrinking world telling people how you outlasted all those people who tried to do something more with their Second Lives.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 16th, 2011
@Senban “The human experience is about far more than bottom lines.”
Really? Would you give me all your money then? Why not? I would guess that you value your money and place no value on what I would do with it. Therefore, the bottom line does matter to you as much as it does LL. You just have a different opinion as to what should be valued and what should not.
“I believe that people like Ina attempt to create something that will encourage the human spirit”
I have plenty of things I do, which I think do the same. Will you give me money for them? Why not? You seem to suggest that good intentions should be publicly funded by way of the fact those intentions are considered good. Okay, my intentions are good. Give me your money.
Yes, it’s easy to “encourage the human spirit” with other people’s money on things you consider worthy. But when you’re asked to fund something you don’t consider worthy, suddenly you understand my opposition.
“The fact that you’re comparing playing virtual landlord and meeting your costs to the idea of a community-sustained project designed to provide something deeper shows that you don’t get it.”
Actually, it shows I understand that people shouldn’t be forced to support projects they place no value on. I have a project that people do place value on. So, no one is in the position of spending money on something they don’t want. If people decide later they don’t want it, my sim closes. If I’m faced with that, will you pay for me to keep my sim open? Why not? Because the bottom line does matter to you.
“It became unsustainable not because people no longer wanted it”
Actually, that’s precisely what happened. Yes, SOME people want it. But not enough to sustain it at the new prices LL is asking. And LL is a private company spending its own money. Just as you don’t want to spend money on things you don’t value, LL decided it no longer valued providing these sims at a reduced rate. So it changed the pricing.
At any time, LL can do this to anyone. This is the cost of creating in SL, and I’m not saying that I agree with their decision. I just support their right to make that decision. And I support everyone’s right to complain about it and leave SL if LL refuses to acquiesce to their customer’s wishes. In other words, everyone has a choice and no one is a slave by any stretch of the imagination.
“Then it was all got rid of because it was no longer about creating something good.”
That’s a value judgment. Do you consider yourself the foremost authority on what is “good?” If it’s so good, why aren’t enough people willing to pay for it to keep it operational? I’m able to do so with my sim. And all I provide is land for people to build what you call “virtual doll houses” to “play virtual dramas” in. Your poor characterization of what I do aside, it would appear that what I consider “good” and what you consider “good” are two very different things. The difference is that what I consider “good” requires no subsidies in the form of reduced pricing from LL. So, what you consider “good” is not valued by enough people to be self-sustaining in the SL environment.
The typical argument in this case is that people are too stupid to appreciate the finer things in life like art. Isn’t it funny that people that talk about public support for good taste are always supporting their own tastes? They always seem to know what’s best for everyone.
“You’ll be the perfect customer in a sterile, sanitised, shrinking world”
I’m sorry you look so down on my creations. Fortunately for you, you’ll never be asked to fund them. Only those that enjoy what I create will be. I’d say that’s a far better system.
hobo kelly
Jun 16th, 2011
whats really funny is the way some people think that their “art” is somehow “enriching” hahaha
I say a big “Thank You” to LL and SL for automatically clearing away this unfunded human detritus similar to how nature uses bacteria to breakdown and recycle all kinds of garbage in RL. yay
Nelson Jenkins
Jun 17th, 2011
@ Senban Babii
The bottom line always matters, especially in today’s economy. If you’re an artist, it’s up to you where you create your art. Doing so in SL was probably a bad choice from the start, and if the rent is too damn high, that’s your problem, not anyone else’s. We don’t (yet) live in Communist America (or Communist wherever-you-live) and I don’t see Our Dear Leader addressing us from his hilltop mansion, so in the meantime, everyone has a right to choose what they spend money on. If nobody spends it on this failed artist, then clearly her works were not wanted.
Yep
Jun 17th, 2011
go getem Tiger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqmba7npY8g
At0m0 Beerbaum
Jun 17th, 2011
most art in SL is crap anyway, just FYI.
Axel Oakleaf
Jun 17th, 2011
Well it makes sense,because Linden Lab is a corporation and corporations are Imperialist emphasizing pricks.
I’m downgrading to basic a while later and moving to Inworldz,and this time make sure no corporation gets their greedy hands all over the virtual world.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 17th, 2011
@Axel That’s amusing. If corporations didn’t create virtual worlds, then they would be run by government entities. (Leaving aside the question as to whether a government entity would ever create such an innovation.)
In that case, you couldn’t downgrade your subscription to basic. You’ll take what they give you, pay for it, and if you’re not happy, you can write your senator and hope things one day change.
Good for you for refusing to pay a company for a service you’re not happy with. But thank goodness the “greedy” private sector is the one operating virtual worlds, or you wouldn’t have that option.
Yep
Jun 17th, 2011
“But thank goodness the “greedy” private sector is the one operating virtual worlds, ”
I know the founders of Inworldz are so greedy. Their island sims are free with only a 75 USD setup fee. then the tier is a huge monthly payment of 75USD. The sim this 75 USD pays for is not some 1/4 prim/script limited homestead sim that LL charges 125 USD a month.
Also uploads are free not 10 lindens per upload.
Greedy is the fact LL could offer sims at these prices with the same 45,000 prims at 75 USD, but they won’t.
Axel Oakleaf
Jun 17th, 2011
Well it’s mostly because of people like EPICGORDON Broome,who seem to have a grudge against me for bringing up 2nd Life on non-furry forums. All i can hope is that God will show them the error of their ways and that they’re being mean to me and telling me to die.
http://furrsfurchrist.com/
Of course i can be found at Life Spirit at times.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 18th, 2011
@Yep “Greedy is the fact LL could offer sims at these prices with the same 45,000 prims at 75 USD, but they won’t.”
Do you really want to argue that Inworldz pricing is a result of some altruistic desire to provide people with sims at affordable prices? Actually, Inworldz is just as greedy as Linden Labs. Inworldz, you see, wants your money. So, they priced their sim lower than LL in hopes you’ll ditch the later and come spend your money with them.
In reality, both companies are operating on greed (read: the natural human desire to prosper).
Yep
Jun 18th, 2011
Sure every company wants to make a fast buck. The nice thing about all of these other virtual worlds is that they show us what LL could do(like sims with 45k prims ) but will not. instead the people at LL try to squeeze even more sims into one server and still raise the tier prices.
Next in july and august we have LL’s promise of mesh coming to the main grid. I might just hang around to listen to the drama once there is a flood of pre made mesh items covering the grid making an unfair advantage to the builders. then you will have the witch hunts as people try to file on the people who uploaded the same mesh item as another and calling them a copybutter. this will be fun.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 18th, 2011
@Yep “The nice thing about all of these other virtual worlds is that they show us what LL could do(like sims with 45k prims ) but will not.”
Precisely. Companies competing for your business will provide better and better products at lower and lower prices. And LL is seeing the heat from competitors. Hopefully Inworldz and other companies will pull people away from SL and force LL to reduce that painfully high $295USD a month for my sim.
As far as mesh, I have no idea how that will play out. Guess we’ll see.
marilyn murphy
Jun 18th, 2011
sl went public in july of 2003. it was largely populated by artists and designers making stuff for amusement and stuff for sale. well, at that time the main talk was that sl could not last. not enough paying customers and etc…here we are 8 years later. despite all the criticism of LL and their policies, isn’t 8 years a pretty good run for any massive game/system/whateverthehellthisis? in the uber fast paced world where operating systems change every few years, sl has hung in there and is still alive today. if you call this living.
Yep
Jun 18th, 2011
“in the uber fast paced world where operating systems change every few years, sl has hung in there and is still alive today. if you call this living.”
I agree, but during most of SL’s early years there was not much out there that was in direct competetion with SL. As Persephone pointed out
“Precisely. Companies competing for your business will provide better and better products at lower and lower prices. And LL is seeing the heat from competitors.”
people tired of the high cost of playing SL will explore other options.
Other grids are perfect for people who are not running a business or a busy venue.
As most people will notice looking at the SL grid, most sims are empty ghost towns. So why spend 2-3 hundred USD for an empty sim that maybe you and a few friends hang out in, when you can have a lot more for much less elsewhere?
marilyn murphy
Jun 18th, 2011
@YEP: yes, i agree with all you say. i didnt say it very well, i think. what i intended to say, isn’t sl a success as it is? 8 years is longer than many many games/sites/whatever last. 8 years is pretty good these days i think. so if it dies today, it was a success.
JustMe
Jun 18th, 2011
Nelson said “Do you happen to own an SL business? Hell, I generated enough income to pay tier when I was a year old selling utter shit. I make more than enough now to afford a full sim, but I prefer to spend it on bills and food. It’s not THAT difficult, especially once you get some market penetration and people know your name.”
I agree … I created some misc. products four years ago, rented two shops in malls and put the products on SL Marketplace too. The items are still selling to this day. I use my profits to pay my shop rent and convert the rest to US $ which go into my PayPal account each month.
The amount of effort I expend in this ? As much as it takes to go to each shop and pay the rent each month . in other words, basically no effort at all. I don’t advertise, I don’t create new content, I just convert the profits to Real Life money and use it to make my RL better.
It’s not rocket science, honest !