Jacon Cortes Slams Justice League Unlimited!!!
by Pixeleen Mistral on 31/08/11 at 2:16 am
Prime Minister of Antiquity: "It is the responsibility of Linden Labs to take action immediately"
Former allies of the Justice League Unlimited are taking pains to distance themselves from Kalel Venkman's vigilante gang as revelations of an apparent on-going program of Second Life player stalking and black ops continues to unfold. Over the weekend I was lucky enough to interview Jacon Cortes, the Prime Minister of Antiquity - a well-known and respected 17 sim estate. I learned that Antiquity leadership, after being frustration by the lack of Linden response to abuse reports had turned to the JLU for help -- a move that they now regret.
Jacon Cortes, Prime Minister of Antiquity
In the interview Prime Minister Cortes called for a Linden Lab investigation of the JLU gang. Cortes slammed the JLU's actions and denounced "the collecting of any type of personal data, IP harvesting, or maintaining any personal files on avatars, period. There is no gray area here. It is against the Linden Labs TOS and its manner of secret collection is very troubling. If Antiquity had been aware of the harvesting of information, we would never have allowed the phantom zone to even be tested on the limited bases that is was within Antiquity".
The full text of the interview:
pixeleen mistral: I understand you are the Prime Minister of Antiquity, a large estate which was listed here http://thelistsl.blogspot.com/2011/08/jlu-patrol-routes.html as one of the JLU patrol routes in a recent leaks from the JLU wiki. Do you support the actions of the JLU?
Jacon Cortes: Yes, I am the elected Prime Minister of Antiquity, a 17 sim estate of pirates, courts and Victorian themed areas. I was as surprised as anyone about the extend of information that seems to have been collected by the JLU. Initially, we did support the JLU. It was the understanding of the Government of Antiquity, that their core mission was to protect our sims from griefer attacks, which we had seen an increase of on our estate and provide basic tactics to protect ourselves from more attacks. No one in Antiquity, including myself, knew or would have allowed any of these sort of actions to take place with in our lands.
pixeleen mistral: Why are the Antiquity sims listed as JLU patrol routes? Were they invited to patrol the Antiquity estate?
Jacon Cortes: Antiquity, in late 2009 I believe, was referred to the JLU to assist in training our Sim Administrators on basic tactics for protecting us from griefer attacks. The Parliament of Antiquity passed a motion to allow training of the Administrators and Estate Managers and a limited deployment of their system as a test. The training was held in the Parliament Chambers for the Administrators and sim owners.
After the training, I volunteered Antiquity Texas and Antiquity Keys, to test the phantomzone system on before deployment to the rest of the Sims. Antiquity Texas only had the phantomzone active for a few days, Antiquity Keys...was deployed for longer, maybe 3-5 months. After that period, the system was removed and not used again.
The JLU did not patrol within Antiquity. The Government of Antiquity and the Sim Administrators did not want outside groups to have Administrators rights in the Estate so the involvement of JLU in Antiquity was limited by the motion approved by the Parliament. At the time, as Prime Minister, we were grateful for the training and support given to us by the JLU. As a way of thanks, I offered the JLU an office in our Capitol, to place their group information and a display. At about the same time, Redzone had also made an appearance in Antiquity. The regions where it was deployed, were contacted by residents, and informed them of the problems surrounding Redzone, its tactics and implications it had on the Linden Labs TOS. The Redzone was removed by the sim owners as soon as the problem was brought to our attention.
pixeleen mistral: What is the position of the Antiquity government on the harvesting IP addresses, maintaining databases linking player alt accounts, and maintaining dossiers on players' real life information as many believe the JLU has done?
Jacon Cortes: If it is indeed what has happened, I can speak on behalf of the entire Antiquity Community, its Government and its Administrators. We fully denounce the collecting of any type of personal data, IP harvesting, or maintaining any personal files on avatars, period. There is no gray area here. It is against the Linden Labs TOS and its manner of secret collection is very troubling. If Antiquity had been aware of the harvesting of information, we would never have allowed the phantom zone to even be tested on the limited bases that is was within Antiquity. Our community is very diverse and inclusive. We respect the privacy of all residents and visitors in Antiquity. I would like to assure all residents of Second Life, that Antiquity does not support, condone, utilize or allow these types of privacy intrusions. It will not be tolerated in Antiquity in any manner.
pixeleen mistral: Is there a role for vigilante or "police" groups in Second Life such as the Justice League Unlimited and **Police Department**?
Jacon Cortes: Vigilante justice is never a justified course. It is the rule of law, fair and equal justice for all, that make a civil society strong and flourish. Freedom of expression and the ability to live your life, with dignity, respect and privacy. These are the foundations for creating a place that allows the opportunity for everyone to achieve what they dream.
That being said, it was by necessity that we had to look for outside help. Antiquity had been plagued by griefing attacks. Incidents were documented, photos taken and abuse reports were filed with Linden Labs. No visible action was ever taken that we were aware of. The lack of any type of action by Linden Lab is what forced us to look for alternative ways at security. The JLU, we believed, provided useful information on basic steps that could be taken to help control the problem. This service, I could see playing a useful function by groups such as JLU and the Police Department.
The problem I see is that there is no real time in-world Linden Labs response. There is no Linden Labs training on how to protect a sim from attacks. An abuse report may be submitted, but its hours or days to get a response if any at all. It is almost disheartening to be submitting a report to Linden Labs as your sims are disrupted and griefed, knowing, that action, if any at all, will be hours are days from the actual attack.
pixeleen mistral: Do you think Linden Lab will take action over this matter? Should they?
Jacon Cortes: I believe it is in the corporate interests of Linden Labs to investigate this matter to the fullest. All residents of Second Life have to be assured that their privacy is protected at all times. Any doubt in the ferocity of the enforcement of the privacy terms as set forth TOS, could cause doubt and apprehension, and in turn possibly spook potential new residents from coming in. If it is confirmed that the harvesting of private data did take place, it is the responsibility of Linden Labs to take action immediately as we have done in Antiquity.
pixeleen mistral: Is there anything else you would like to tell say to the Herald readers? What have I overlooked?
Jacon Cortes: Since its foundation in 2007, Antiquity has been an active and welcoming community in Second Life for all. The community, Government and Administrators were not in any way aware of the collection and harvesting of personal data on our sims. We would never have allowed it in any shape or form. We pride ourselves in making a community where your free to live your life as you wish, with out the fear of your personal information being revealed. The reason many of us are here is to live our SL in the manner we choose, secure in knowing, our privacy is protected. This in turn allows us, to explore and express ourselves to others, sometimes in a way, not possible in our real life.
I would like to take one final moment to invite all the Herald readers to visit Antiquity and be assured that your privacy is protected. We are a community of hard working, honest and immensely creative residents. We do live our lives in a period of time, that allows for the citizens of antiquity and its visitors, to enjoy the best of times passed. The core function of the Antiquity Parliament, is to ensure that all our citizens and visitors rights are protected and defended.
Tux
Aug 31st, 2011
Hopefully the first!
Tux
Aug 31st, 2011
*of many!
Marie Reynaud
Aug 31st, 2011
Thank you Jacon
LOL
Aug 31st, 2011
Looks like the JLU and GLE have lost alot of sims to collect data on!
I guess antiquity is not that bad after all
Orbitron 9
Aug 31st, 2011
I have said, previously elsewhere, that THE LAW does not so much control the people, the population at large, but it controls the police. Consider jaywalking, shoplifting, speeding, or murder. The police without benefit of THE LAW
Astolat Dufaux
Aug 31st, 2011
Thank you, sir, for expressing your position on the JLU.
Many of us who have voiced concerns about this subject are legitimate landholders and merchants in Second Life, but are being painted with a broad brushstroke by JLU representatives and having our reputations questioned for speaking out against their questionable policing methods.
Orbitron 9
Aug 31st, 2011
I have said, previously elsewhere, that THE LAW does not so much control the people, the population at large, but it controls the police. Consider jaywalking, shoplifting, speeding, or murder. The police without benefit of THE LAW would simply execute all. So the law is in place to control the police force, or those that consider themselves to be such
Now, vigilantes .. are simply those that consider themselves to be the legitimate law enforcement agency, but not restrained by the law, in order to GET THINGS DONE.
The JLU is outside of the law, despite what they seem to do. There are a griefer group. Get over it, y’all, y’are.
Now, what has LL done? What have they done since day one? What have they created? Not much frankly. SL is just one huge test tube for them, all the content has been created by those of us that create. Even for the JLU, they just sit back and watch. Even for this blog. It is all just their experiment. You are their lab rat, oh me too, sure.
What’s my point? Beyond saying this, not much. 17 Sims? Well, gee, I’m impressed. Buy me a drink?
I owned 1 sim for a while, and had to let it go, but I handled the jerks that came through. I’ve generally liked the griefers BECAUSE they seemed to be doing something original .
Whatever . Best regards to AH. cheers.
We
Aug 31st, 2011
Roleplayers vs Roleplayers
FIGHT!
CheerGirl Allen
Aug 31st, 2011
Kick Antique Ass Jacon!!!!!!!
Tracer Graves
Aug 31st, 2011
Thanks for this article/interview. Once again, I urge all Second Life users who are disturbed by the actions of Justice League Unlimited and it’s affiliates to sign the petition to Linden Labs to take action:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stopjluillegalactivities/
GG3
Aug 31st, 2011
How’s Ivory Tower Holding Up?
Heard they had a soft-spot for JLU…
Dave Gaffer
Aug 31st, 2011
While I do not approve of the JLU shitstorm, it’s nice to see Jacon Cortes and the Minions of Antiquity step up to ride the wake of this and get their 15 minutes. Way to go, Jacon. At least Antiquity is consistent. You never fail to disapoint.
IntLibber Brautigan
Aug 31st, 2011
Vindication is a long time coming…
hobo kelly
Aug 31st, 2011
17 sims full of pirates and they couldn’t take care of a griefing problem? huh? let me think that through again… 17 sims full of pirates and they couldn’t handle a griefing problem themselves. What kind of weenie pirates are those? They put the Phantom Zone system in without telling anybody and let it do its dirty work. And now that they have been caught, they say “oh its ok now, all clear, come on over…” yeah right. No way buddy. You screwed yourself with having covert liasions with the JLU. Nobody in their right mind is going to go to this Antiquity place now. Or any other place on the JLU patrol list for that matter. Congratulations.
IntLibber Brautigan
Aug 31st, 2011
well they are victorian pirates, so at least they are very polite…
Dave Bell
Aug 31st, 2011
I’ll note that NCI runs a class on dealing with griefers. My own experience is also that you need to be familiar with your viewer, and where the various options are controlled from.
The general lack of information on the consequences of an abuse report is something that only encourages the vigilanteism. I’ve made ARs on griefing attacks. I don’t really expect the Lindens to come dashing in, but what does happen to the perpetrator?
There used to be a “police blotter” web page run by LL. It stopped being updated late last year. The information it showed was of short-lived bans, lasting a few days.
One of the things which fueled Redzone was that it was presented as a solution to the apparent failures of Linden Lab. It was all a lie, but I know that there have been times when the Marketplace has been littered with apparently copybotted material, and the Linden Lab enforcement was sluggish. Maybe it was delayed by a lack of reporting by copyright owners. It doesn’t need many people using copybot tech to make a big splash, and those big splashes, apparently ignored by Linden Lab, provoked a huge over-response.
If Linden Lab are carrying out effective enforcement, they need to be telling people. If nobody sees the results, they are going to go with whoever talks loudest.
Dave Bell
Aug 31st, 2011
Yes, but it has got about, and what is the consequence? Every one we capture says he’s an orphan. The last three ships we took proved to be manned entirely by orphans, and so we had to let them go. One would think that Great Britain’s mercantile navy was recruited solely from her orphan asylums – which we know is not the case.
/b/
Aug 31st, 2011
Okay so is it just me or did JLU Lie to me, and I quote this from in game.
Me: http://www.sl4.me/ Is this true O.o that there is gonna be another spyware system on our grid?
JLU: Hey hey. Phantom Zone does not collect IP addresses.
So funny thing is who is tellin the damn truth here. LOL JLU, OR TWH, who to trust Meh, someone told me Neither :3
Nelson Jenkins
Aug 31st, 2011
@ Orbitron 9
That is the whole point of our legal system. It is slow and methodical for a purpose, that purpose being to allow as many innocent cases to filter out before disciplinary action.
Vigilante groups may “get things done” but at the cost of far more innocent casualties than traditional law enforcement and judicial systems. Look at Corsi’s most popular article on this site, it’s a good case of vigilantes targeting the totally wrong person.
The List SL
Aug 31st, 2011
JLU members resign: http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/jlu-members-resign.html
Database is legit: http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/this-looks-legit.html
JLU not concerned about wiki leaks: http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/jlu-not-concerned-about-another-wiki.html
A family friend becomes a Linden: http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/family-friend-becomes-linden.html
JLU can override land settings with PZ!: http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/jlu-can-override-land-owners-wishes.html
Anonymous
Aug 31st, 2011
As usual the Alphaville Herald tries to use sensationalist titling to seem relevant.
Slams, is hardly what they are doing in this article and the Phantom Zone was misrepresented as collecting IP addresses.
I wonder how much outside pressure led up to this “Slamming”
On another note….wasn’t it Pixeleen who gave voice to and legitimacy to zfire xue all the way up until he was banned. The Alphaville Harald has yet to print a follow-up story abour the creator of Redzone and where his arrogance and Hubris has landed him.
T-Bone
Aug 31st, 2011
The Herald reporting of late has been poor. This latest piece, typical.
As has been mentioned the Herald has cozily cheered griefing in the past, and given coverage to such notable griefer assholes as Chainsword Audion.
Frankly, the whole JLU thing is a yawn. Get back to what you do – on occasion – best and give Rodvick a hard time for pocketing cash whilst holding their customers in contempt.
What of the latest Grendel’s saga? I had to read about it on Primperfect blog. Possibly time for a new job, Pixelenn, hun?
Nelson Jenkins
Aug 31st, 2011
@ Anonymous
PhantomZone doesn’t collect IP addresses now?
Article is still pretty shabby though. That snapshot looks like it’s from 2005.
Tux
Aug 31st, 2011
@Nelson
PZ doesn’t collect IP addresses now by any means we have detected. The latest leak seems to show GLE saying the tables are correct. In which case the IP and Email tables are present.
One of the other leaks also said they was working on an alternative method for alt detection. Perhaps they found it.
All in all, I seriously doubt they are actually doing it for the moment. Unless they do have a Lab employee on side to cover their backsides.
I just don’t think any of the pieces fit at the moment. More information needs to come to light.
hobo kelly
Aug 31st, 2011
I think theListSL is my new favorite website. The Herald is too of course. To whomever is running theListSL: you rock. Lots of new stuff to read there today, lots of new stuff to coalate. A lot of Siobhan McCallen blowing their chops off in more Venkman suckup sessions. Priceless. But the one big take away from todays dump has to be the Phoney Phantom Zone that Tux supposedly setup somewhere to troll Venkman and company. Log lulz ensued where one of the JLU admitted that by using Phantom Zone they can even kick ban the owner of the property off of their own land by using a Phantom Zone Node Backdoor, and in the logs one of the JLU even suggests that they take over somebodys land that was dumb enough to allow PZ on it:
“[18:21:26] Kohaku Owatatsumi: Turn it on, ban them from their own estate”
GG3
Aug 31st, 2011
@Hobo Kelly
You said it~
Nelson Jenkins
Aug 31st, 2011
@ Tux
I kind of assumed that, I worded the question incorrectly. What I meant to say is, PhantonZone never collected IPs in the first place anymore? (Or something to that regard… hopefully you get the idea.)
Tux
Aug 31st, 2011
@Nelson
At this point I really don’t know. I have in the past had media urls for krypton radio come up. And I assume that was the case. Without seeing the scripts or finding anything on their server I cannot be 100%.
That said it is of no doubt the JLU was linked to the PD alt system. So indirectly they have had this ability.
James Freud
Aug 31st, 2011
Did Hitler ever visit Antiquity?
Nelson Jenkins
Aug 31st, 2011
@ hobo kelly
Kalel Venkman: And right now, we’re in the right, and we know it.
Siobhan McCallen: So what if it’s stolen? WE’VE DONE NOTHING WRONG.
oh ho ho ho
The List SL
Aug 31st, 2011
Oh so it DOES gather IP? http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/wait-it-reveals-ip.html
Yep
Aug 31st, 2011
Go getem Tiger
Tux
Aug 31st, 2011
JLU down to 27: http://world.secondlife.com/group/cc7d8ee6-cc07-8f11-193b-8544514143f3
LOL
Sep 1st, 2011
@James Freud
Ask Glenn Beck
Potosi Abonwood
Sep 1st, 2011
The PZ doesn’t collect IPs. But it does pull information from the Brainiac Database (not the wiki, two different things evidently) and that database is hooked up to the Police Departments database (it happened around october of last year by Kalels own admitance in the leaked logs). Now the Police Department database was collecting IPs with avi name up until maybe a week or so ago when they suddenly pulled it down when they got caught. Not to mention the leaked pics of the info they get over the Police Department HUDs that shows alt detection.
So, no, the PZ doesn’t collect IPs. They have already been picked for it by another system.
Lili
Sep 1st, 2011
Look! A squirrel!
IntLibber Brautigan
Sep 1st, 2011
lol Potosi, you should be a spokes person for the federal government
GreenLantern Excelsior
Sep 1st, 2011
Well this is very sad. I’ve spoken with Jacon several times and found him in the past to be friendly and fair, happy to have JLU around and eager for us to help. Now it appears that he believes, without checking with us, that the list of names and IP addresses came from JLU. It didn’t, of course, because Phantom Zone never did collect IP addresses or any information at all from anyone. All it did was eject the people who were on its list of people to eject. This reminds me of the Winston Churchill quote: “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.” Jacon, I’m sorry you were fooled by these guys.
Here’s what Soft Linden had to say about the list of names and IP addresses that was published:
“Working backward from the list of resis in the recently published resi IP list, I was able to build a list of the locations visited by a large share of those resis. Working from the location list, I pulled historic simulator states for those locations and found several of the IP collection probes.”
“The operator is affiliated with a large group of resis who were previously banned from SL, and who were told they were not allowed to return. I’ve referred that to Governance. It’s up to Governance whether they blacklist, ban, or warn. I suspect their action will be swift on this one, given the prior history.”
Reference: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/ARVD-37?
JLU has (or had) an office in the Texas State Capitol building. That is one of the most amazing and beautiful builds I’ve ever seen. Whatever happens with Antiquity, I would urge everyone to go visit if you have a chance.
Tux
Sep 1st, 2011
@GLE
And the truth shall prevail!
You see GLE, as you well know, the group ‘The Wrong Hands’ is not banned. Many of its members are not banned. I will accept Kalel’s apology now . . . .
We
Sep 1st, 2011
Quick GLE, To the AR Party Van! Jacon is clearly a griefer now!
Tux
Sep 1st, 2011
I couldn’t resist Photoshopping it:
http://i.imgur.com/Lnrkb.png
hobo kelly
Sep 1st, 2011
Wow, this is up at theListSL tonight. Apparently it may be way worse then we know. JLU hacking bank accounts?? holy cow. and here we have a JLU member admitting that PZ collects IP’s:
——
[05:26:03] Emiley Tomsen: I can also answer questions you have on the system, and I can also assure you that this is not meant to violate anyone’s privacy. We’ve been hearing some people spread rumours about how they think the system reveals RL info, or lets us hack bank accounts or other misinformation.
[05:26:27] millay Freschi: does it reveal the IP?
[05:26:45] Emiley Tomsen: Yes, but so do all websites.
[05:27:12] millay Freschi: yes i understand that. i really do but i
can’t allow those on 4B.
[05:27:18] millay Freschi: i just can’t
[05:27:58] millay Freschi: i think that there may be a time and a
place for them though frankly i can’t imagine it my own self but i
worry about the privacy issues and what we’re giving up by allowing
these sorts of things
Innula Zenovka
Sep 1st, 2011
@GLE — If you re-read the article, I think you will see Jacon, if he is correctly quoted, saying condemning “the collecting of any type of personal data, IP harvesting, or maintaining any personal files on avatars, period. There is no gray area here. It is against the Linden Labs TOS and its manner of secret collection is very troubling. If Antiquity had been aware of the harvesting of information, we would never have allowed the phantom zone to even be tested on the limited bases that is was within Antiquity”.
You say that JLU does not harvest IPs. Do you also say it does not “collect any type of personal data” nor maintain “any personal files on avatars, period”?
Senban Babii
Sep 1st, 2011
@Tux
“JLU down to 27″
It says 26 this morning. Rats leaving the sinking ship?
GG3
Sep 1st, 2011
@Hobo
Emily yet again? At this point anything this person says is a lie, especially if you try to use lindens to get “under-the-table results”.
If those credit-card rumors are true, JLU is in more trouble than it already is.
They have already shown their “integrity” by now, not to mention that IP List is recent and the TOS changes have been in affect prior to June 2011. That in itself is more than enough for them to receive perma-bans.
CheerGirl Allen
Sep 1st, 2011
@GLE
I must agree with you, Jacon Cortes is a Friendly and Fair person.
Once every single Antiquity Sim was listed as the JLU’s hunting grounds True or not, WTF Did you expect all of the Antiquity Courts to do?
IMO, The antiquity Community as a whole acting to distance themselves from the JLU’s drama fest was the correct move in order to remain friendly and fair to ALL THE RESIDENTS OF SL.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Sep 1st, 2011
@ hobo
Emiley was discussing the Police Department security orb in that chat log, not Phantom Zone.
@ Innula
As I said, PZ does not collect any information at all. It is clear that Jacon was speaking of PZ when he said “If Antiquity had been aware of the harvesting of information, we would never have allowed the phantom zone to even be tested on the limited bases that is was within Antiquity.” We met with Jacon before coming to Antiquity, and he was well aware that we have a griefer database full of information.
@ CheerGirl
“WTF Did you expect all of the Antiquity Courts to do?”
I would have expected someone to contact JLU prior to making a public announcement like this. We could have showed them that the list of names and IP addresses was a hoax.
Alyx Stoklitsky
Sep 1st, 2011
What the fuck is wrong with you all, that you have not gotten over this bullshit in 4 fucking years?
You’re all fucking morons. All of you, in every faction. You are the perfect fucking metaphor for everything that is wrong with humanity and this planet.
I’m going to go masturbate to picture of Bertrand Russel.
CheerGirl Allen
Sep 1st, 2011
@GLE
As clearly stated in this interview
” If it is indeed what has happened, I can speak on behalf of the entire Antiquity Community, its Government and its Administrators. We fully denounce the collecting of any type of personal data, IP harvesting, or maintaining any personal files on avatars, period.”
So are you denying that the JLU Created and continue to creates Dossiers on Avatars?
Furthermore, I still stand behing my previous statement
“Once every single Antiquity Sim was listed as the JLU’s hunting grounds True or not, WTF Did you expect all of the Antiquity Courts to do?”
would you like me to Underline and make bold “TRUE OR NOT”
and as the prime minister of antiquity said
” …If it is indeed what has happened…”
at no time did anyone in Antiquity say that the JLU is Guilty. All the Courts, Gov’t and Admins are doing is Distancing themself from the JLU in order to protect THIER INVESTMENTS in SL, and making a stand as to thier thoughts regarding Dossiers on Avatars\Humans.
Bill O'Riley
Sep 1st, 2011
@ GLE
You need to Shut the hell up