‘Broadly Offensive’ Raid in Blister; Lindens Review Teen Anime Paintings
by prokofy on 14/07/07 at 12:46 pm
Porn art cabana in Blister.
By Prokofy Neva, Community Affairs
Tipped off by some newbie helpers who staff a monitoring network with Linden support, Linden staff may have seized or “force-copied” anime paintings said to contain what was deemed illegal child anime pornography from a cabana tonight in the working-class water sim of Blister — leaving only adult nude amateur art mostly made with a 3D modeling program: Poser.
The tipsters – who asked not to be named – said an adult lesbian couple had made the paintings themselves using images of pre-teen Millenium anime characters from a 3-D modeling website.
A visit to the site of the raid showed the cheap cabanas to be owned by Lisae Boucher and Femke Bikcin, who did not respond to Herald queries. Sources say neither resident was removed from SL. The two appear to make a modest SL living by selling their paintings for L$25. Conflicting reports suggest that either the content owners – Ms. Boucher and Bikcin – suddenly removed the worst of the images upon being warned by LL-sponsored Volunteers, or their pictures were “force-copied” by Michael Linden and determined to be in violation of a stricter new TOS/CS interpretation released in May by Daniel Linden, prohibiting the display of child pornography or real or virtual depictions of “ageplay”: “[C]ertain types of content and activity are simply not acceptable in any form,” including “Real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors”.
The artwork still remaining on site included disturbing depictions of nudes and skeletons and a cut-out of a decidedly underage fairy. Some mentors were of the opinion the Lindens had not finished the job, and should have banned the residents instantly and removed them from the People list as they do with grid-crashers.
Broadly offensive?
The monitoring for offenses such as “ageplay” is being done inside the officially-supported Volunteers communication channel, where mentors, volunteers, and other helpers are now keeping surveillance over the behaviour of their fellow residents and stay in constant touch with Lindens in the channel about what action to take.
The group, recently revised and renamed under the direction of Blue Linden, appears to have taken on enhanced capacities in keeping with the new challenge of “Keeping Second Life Safe, Together” and policing “broadly offensive” material.
In a separate development, sources in the channel contacted the Herald last week with concerns about how such possibly unlawful content as child avatar depictions should be determined, and what standards should be used in particular for distinguishing RL pornography showing pictures of human beings, versus fantasy art such as anime portraits, or screenshots made of child avatars in Second Life, or created in modeling programs such as Poser. Mentors have been very divided on the topic, like much of the rest of SL society, but the Lindens have sent a strong signal: abuse-report anything you find objectionable if you have concerns that it could be unlawful. However, the legality of such depictions can vary by RL country, further complicating matters.
Clearly, the Lindens do not appear adverse to using this newly revised Volunteers system not merely to help newbies on Orientation Island, as was their old brief, but to deploy helpers across the grid to be the eyes and ears of LL in ferreting out broadly-offensive material such as child pornography that nobody would routinely find in one of the numerous $5000/512 m2 cheap water sims up north in the continent of Nautilus.
Some venerable oldbies like Suzie Boffin, who used to appear frequently on the number one slot of the old leader board for positions of wealth, land, and positive ratings in SL, appear to be concerned about the use of this channel for this particular surveillance purpose. And Mia Linden makes it clear that she does not wish volunteers to use the group to discuss definitions of ageplay and child pornography. Yet Lexie Linden does encourage volunteers to abuse report what they find, and clearly the volunteers feel empowered to identify and discuss the actions of fellow residents they believe to be miscreants.
According to the official Linden police blotter, the Lindens have been cracking down more on objectionable porn and behaviour now clearly prohibited by the TOS and Community Standards. On July 12 in Blair, for example, LL handed down a 3-day suspension for “broadly visible mature content”. A warning was issued for “broadly offensive” content in Endicott on July 13. Citing the offense as “Community Standards: Broadly Offensive Content or Conduct,” a 1-day suspension was handed down in Empyrean for “Disturbing the peace with offensive content”. A teen was caught trying to access the main grid as well on July 12 and suspended for 14 days.
The raid in Blister didn’t find its way into the police blotter for Saturday, June 14, now on display; that’s often the case, as the Lindens strategically include only a fraction of incidents on the blotter. Instead, “Mature content in PG region” was chosen to illustrate the problem, with a warning issued.
Broadly attractive: LL now has more than 8 million sign-ups.
CHATLOG FROM VOLUNTEERS (FORMERLY MENTORS) GROUP CHAT
Alida Tomsen: oh that is very wrong
Hionimi Engawa: I even found a pregnant child av, very disturbing
Hionimi Engawa: AR myself to death here, someone told me he got offendedby an ageplay parcel/sim, and yes, Nemo it’s called 241, 9, 49, all kinds of child and sexuality here, already filed like 6 abuses.
Frodo Hartunian: OMG
Pyrii Akula: It’s a private sim isn’t it? How did he get there?
starhunter Gall : nemo is main land sim
Arrianna Asturias: uh oh, what did I miss?
Hionimi Engawa: Someone told me of it
Gabriella Molinari: gesus
Frodo Hartunian: gah
Susie Boffin: Why are you telling us in Mentor Chat? I really don’t care.
Glitch Braess: THere are avatars in second life that choose to be their normal RL height… which isn’t 7 feet. please keep that in mind.
Hionimi Engawa : She was looking for normal xhild stuff, roleplayer, but not sexual, and shockingly found the place
Danielle Ferguson: This is quite true as am rather short as well
starhunter Gall: agreed Glitch, just a AV is short dont make them a child
Susie Boffin: I am 5’3″ in SL which is my real height
Hionimi Engawa: Yes yes, I’m checking their profiles, they really do perform child porn! D:<
ASCIIrider Hailey: ok it’s a GAME folks. .have ary real minors had sex because of this?
Second Life: Frodo Hartunian has left this session.
Hionimi Engawa: For the fourth time, I’m reading their profiles, they play child, having sex, damn it
Arrianna Asturias: It’s against the TOS
Danielle Ferguson: Thank you ASCII
Susie Boffin : Big deal. Ignore them if you don’t like it
Hionimi Engawa: LL bans ageplay, so that’s why I’m telling, if you don;t care, stop moaning and just close the chat
Trinity Coulter: I will say this… its not necessarily real children, but its also disappointing to have Official SL Volunteers be so dismissive of the rules
Stormy Wilde: Hionimi file an abuse report, lindens cant do anything without it.
010000100111001001100001011011 Omlet: agreed
ASCIIrider Hailey : they PLAY children.. not ARE children
Izira Kirkorian: exactly
Arrianna Asturias: I mean, it’s up to you, but if it bothers you, report it.
Arrianna Asturias: Age play is against TOS. Bottom line.
Arrianna Asturias: Yes, exactly
Elhaym Keynes: are there pictures of RL children in sexually explicit situations?
Hionimi Engawa: I am, 6 files reported
Drakon Lameth : Arrianna, it’s not technically against the ToS, they haven’t ammended it yet…
Joelle Tardis: The issue here is I believe that is considered a TOS violation as some Places Have laws against it online as well as in RL
Willy White: S is a real big place
ASCIIrider Hailey: show me where in the TOS that is, which a court ruled not valid anyhow
Second Life: Izira Kirkorian has left this session.
Arrianna Asturias: LL acturally asked us to report it.
Arrianna Asturias: I thought they had. Sorry about that. But they did recommend that we report it if we saw it.
Rhaorth Antonelli: ageplay is nto against the TOS ageplaying a monor in lewd acts etc is against the TOS
Jana Fleming: one day a governmental agency will decide that sl needs to be shut down because of it, then we’ll all care :p
Drakon Lameth : when do we start reporting the churches of assorted religions next? I hear its against the law in numerious countries to have a religious artifact of another religion.
Yumi Murakami : Elhaym, avatar depictions are enough as per Blog
ASCIIrider Hailey: great and a blog isn’t a TOS or community standards
Elhaym Keynes : but the avatar’s may not be related to the sim itself is why I ask, right?
Yumi Murakami: it’s grossly offensive content
Arrianna Asturias: There is a big difference between religious freedom, even sexual freedom and a depiction of sex with a child.
ASCIIrider Hailey: simple ya don’t like it. .LEAVE! no one is forcing you to stay and watch
Joelle Tardis: as a parent I agree
ASCIIrider Hailey: if it were REAL minors I’d care
Arrianna Asturias: So, SL should be a haven for pedophiles to come and gets the kicks, huh?
Hionimi Engawa: ASCIIrider, I’m not liking it in a way I find it offensive, and someone came to me reporting this, and I’m helping him
Rox Arten: I would have to agree as well it is abuse and feeding the appatites of pervs only puts our children in rl in danger
Drakon Lameth : Arrianna, we’re having to report Age Play because some fedral governments don’t like it… I’m waiting for the next reports, for violence (when we raid the Gorean sims), for Beastiality (when we raid the furry sims), and for various religions reasons.
Trinity Coulter: “‘If you say you’re under 18′ applies to the real life person. Child avatars are not a problem in themselves. You can say your avatar is under 18, just as long as your under-18 avatar is not engaged in lewd behavior.” — Robin Linden
ASCIIrider Hailey: and hey I’m offended by Gor.. my solution I don’t go there
Drakon Lameth: Rox, Arrianna… would you rather they were doing it here in SL, or actually doing it in RL?
Lexie Linden: Hi Mentors! Please do report things you see as being abuse and if you want to discuss or debate the topic among yourselves, please meet somewhere to do that : )
Rox Arten: real minors or not… the adults pretending to have sex with the “children” are sick
ASCIIrider Hailey: and who cares what othewr goverments say? last I knew the servers were in the USA
Rox Arten: would you care to discuss the implications of what they are pretending
Arrianna Asturias: And yes, child porn, real or cartoon is illegal in the US
Arrianna Asturias: They shouldn’t be doing it at all
Drakon Lameth leaves the chat humming: “When they came for the…”
Arrianna Asturias: So, a depiction of an adult having sex with a minor shouldn’t be legal here either.
Rox Arten: Drakon I am a survivor of child sexual abuse
ASCIIrider Hailey: ok people get a damned grip! this is ADULTS doing roleplay!
Kris Spade: Could you all please take Lexie’s advice? This debate can go on forever.
Mia Linden: PLEASE DISCUSS THIS IS ANOTHER CHANNEL. not in the mentor channel as Lexie just asked u all.
Arrianna Asturias: Sorry, I signed on in the middle.
Hionimi Engawa: I agree, everyone is actually only busy defending their opinion in here :\
UPDATE: An additional source reports indicate a reason for the conflicting reports. Apparently some of the worst of the alleged porn was kept underwater and out of sight. And Michael Linden’s avatar is described by eyewitnesses as a small, “violently pink chibi squid,” in wierd “Flying Spaghetti Monster” mode. He could have been mistaken for an underwater creature in the sea of Blister.
FURTHER UPDATE 3:30 PM 7/14: I’m changing the headline to REVIEW instead of SEIZE because it appears from witness reports, some of whom were the mentors who abuse-reported the content, that Michael Linden reviewed and “force-copied” (i.e. used God-mode to copy an item with no-copy permission set) the material, but then the owners, depending on the account, either swooped down quickly to remove it to avoid further action, or conversed with their more reasonable neighbours who persuaded them to remove some of the content. More on this story is coming soon based on further interviews and group posts — stay tuned!
Lisae Boucher
Jul 25th, 2007
Quote: And then i wasnt on your land cause also there banned.
You know why you were banned and you should also realize that I won’t lift your ban In Lotsawa. There is no reason for you to go there in the first place anyways. But feel free to check out my place in Blister. My Blister land is just open to everyone.
If my artwork has offended anyone then I apologize for that. It is not my intention to offend people. I did not expect anyone to look under the sea and considered it an appropriate area to create some more panels to add to my vendor. And if SL hadn’t been acting up all the time, it would never have stayed there.
Finally, I still would like to know who added those missing children signs to my land. I never removed them as they were already gone before I arrived. Has no one checked the owners of those signs?
sasja Fitzgerald
Jul 25th, 2007
Well here we go.
You just admitted to hiding things in the sea.
Well you create things in the sea, why on earth do that when you have so much land with 4 cabins on it, even with 2 floors, not to mention the skybox, oh yeah oops that vanished when we found a little movie off a girl in the shower, oops I called it little movie offcourse I mean art.
And missing children signs ???? pfoei better come with facts on that one.
Maybe they are hidden in the sea, who knows.
Alexander Hayes
Jul 25th, 2007
remove that garbage from your site and land, bitch. stop making up excuses. stop with your fake promotions of nudism. stop living in sin with your girlfriend. we don’t want your smut on the internet
Reality
Jul 25th, 2007
Mr. Hayes you are in no position to make a demand of any sort. You are a random commenter on the Internet – faceless, nameless and unimportant.
Your opinion of any visual material anywhere on the Internet is worth about as much as a ball of lint. You are not an Officer, Lawyer, Judge, Government Official or anyone else in a position of power whose opinion on any visual actually matters.
It is however rather interesting to note your rather sudden change of attitude concerning this matter … Find something that you personally consider offensive?
Here’s the solution Mr. Hayes: Don’t go to places where you may find material that you – on a personal level – may find offensive. You do not own the Grid, nor are you in any position of power to be able to tell another Resident or Linden Lab what can and cannot be placed on a resident’s land.
Oh yes, in the future Mr. Hayes – Speak only for yourself. You do not know what others have concluded, what others think, and what others may want done.
Mark
Jul 25th, 2007
“stop living in sin with your girlfriend”
You’re a jackass and a religious bigot.
DaveOner
Jul 25th, 2007
“we don’t want your smut on the internet”
YEAH! We want the internet to stay clean and proper like it’s always been!!!
*rolls eyes*
You guys just need to cut to the chase and see if she weighs as much as a duck.
There needs to be a more efficient way to conduct a witch hunt…
Lisae Boucher
Jul 25th, 2007
Quote: remove that garbage from your site and land, bitch.
Stop the name-calling, Alexander. Just makes you sound stupid. I wonder if you’d really even show up tomorrow as you promised. I don’t think you will since you’re just a big fake bully.
Quote: that vanished when we found a little movie off a girl in the shower
This showering woman: http://www.katje.biz/Shower.jpg
IT’s a few snapshots from some movie, in a 4×4 grid which I used for that movie. And it’s still on my land since this is an adult woman, in case you missed that. Just wished I knew the title of it. Does anyone recognize this woman? Can you tell me who she is and from which movie these images come from? The first one who provides the correct information will receive L$ 50…
Lisae Boucher
Jul 25th, 2007
One more thing… I’ve put my land in Blister up for sale. Yeah, I know. I’m asking a high price for it too. But if someone really wants to get rid og me from Blister then I guess L$ 80.000 for 4096 sq.m. with objects is a fair price. Means you also get the fish and the fairies that are swimming and flying around. So Alexander, do you want to get rid of me? Just buy me out…
Jonas Pierterson
Jul 26th, 2007
The artwork still remaining on site included disturbing depictions of nudes and skeletons and a cut-out of a decidedly underage fairy.
The fairy isn’t in a sexual pose OR nude OR exposed. Its legit -pictures of children as a whole are not banned, ask any parent.
Nudes? Lots of artisticly done nudes in real life, and those aren’t child porn.
Skeletons? Whats a bone done to offend you?
Nothing in your quoted statement is illegal. Get a life.
Sasja Fitzgerald
Jul 26th, 2007
That’s Funny Lisae.
All your land is for sale, has been ever since we found your ‘Art’ and so much money for land noone want’s to associated with ? get real lady.
And about that movie, no that’s not it, as you saw I said little girl, not woman.
We are not conducting a witch hunt.
We and I talk in general because we are with many, don’t want this carbage in SL.
Just as we don’t want it in RL.
Iff your ok with child pornography than that’s your problem, and I would pick up the yellow pages and look up shrink.
We are not ok with childpornography in any form, that includes child AV’s.
And we will keep fighting to get it out off SL.
And iff you’ve seen CNN lately, the FBI isn’t gonna stand for it anymore either.
Lisae Boucher
Jul 26th, 2007
Ooh. What a surprise… Alexander had made an appointment with my employer about this case and would have been here in the morning. Unfortunately he could not make it because his father has suddenly had a heart attack and is now in the hospital. That is such an inconvenience… Such a convenient inconvenience to just continue to appear real.
I guess his pants are on fire now…
Griefers are so sick and it’s so sad that with a few simple tricks they can manage to get so much information. I know how he got that information now, btw. He didn’t look it up. He just found an email of some friend of mine pretending to be my employer and asking for my home number since he had lost it. Then he called my home, had a chat with a roommate who told me that I was at work and she was also friendly enough to provide that number. And apparently he managed to get even more information about me simply by using the phone instead of the Internet…
Well, I’ve warned my friends and relatives now about this and it won’t happen again. I hope…
Lisae Boucher
Jul 26th, 2007
Sasja is playing around with the truth again, but that is to be expected from a griefer. But let’s look at what she claims, okay?
Quote: All your land is for sale, has been ever since we found your ‘Art’ and so much money for land noone want’s to associated with ?
Nope. Actually, the land in that area used to be two parts. The one that all those griefers visited used to be group land. I also have another 2048 sq.m. next to it which I own myself. Yesterday I combined two lands just to see if you or anyone else would be willing to buy me out of the area. If not, I think I will settle there and also buy a bit more so I will own the beach too.
Quote: And about that movie, no that’s not it, as you saw I said little girl, not woman.
You said a girl in the shower. That image is the girl in the shower that you meant. It’s the only girl-in-a-shower picture that I’ve used for a movie anyways.
Quote: We are not conducting a witch hunt.
Yes, you are. You’re even continuing it by making up more lies. Unfortunately many people are now ignoring you just because of your griefing actions. You even sent that Alexander guy to grief me, or so he claims. Or maybe he is you. who knows?
Quote: We and I talk in general because we are with many, don’t want this carbage in SL.
Majority doesn’t seem to object though. This is a democracy and many seem to agree that:
1) the images are legal
2) the images are crap so they won’t buy it
3) I can do on my land whatever I like.
Quote: Iff your ok with child pornography than that’s your problem, and I would pick up the yellow pages and look up shrink.
Like that Alexander guy you’re just accusing me of something I did NOT do. Well, good luck. I’ll send you that number of a shrink that you obviously need but couldn’t find in the Yellow pages.
Quote: And we will keep fighting to get it out off SL.
More likely until you yourself are kicked off SL for intolerance and harassment.
Quote: And iff you’ve seen CNN lately, the FBI isn’t gonna stand for it anymore either.
I have better things to do than endlessly watch TV or sit behind my computer. I have a life. And a Second Life…
Sasja Fitzgerald
Jul 27th, 2007
Whahahahahaha sorry had to laugh a bit.
I don’t know Alexander, or maybe I do have given notecards with pictures and landmarks to a lot off people, people who are able to stop you better than we can, so maybe I did give it to Alexander.
I don’t need the number for the shrink, I’m not the one drewling over children.
Who’s ignoring me then ?
Can’t think off anyone who’s ignoring me, and I don’t have to make up lies, people saw your artwork, why should I lie about it.
Your the one that admitted that you lied, first there wasn’t anything in the sea, then there was.
And me kicked off SL for grieving ? and intolarance ?? whahahaha
Haven’t been to any off your places, I can’t even because you banned me, so why would I wanna go there.
I have proof on a notecard I don’t need to be there, I don’t even wanna be there, they might think I’m a pervert like you are, no thanks.
And about your land, I wasn’t talking about your home, I’m talking about all your stores.
Checked the land to see who owned it, and it was for sale, all off it.
Didn’t check your home.
And buy you out ?? why on earth would I wanna do that, I have a nice home on a c5 sim, I don’t need your home.
To many hidden rooms anyway, I would get lost in there.
And yes we will keep fighting childporn and pornography, not only yours, so don’t worry.
There are enough people who care about those things, thank goodness.
RL is bad enough no need to run in to that crap in SL as well.
Reality
Jul 27th, 2007
Sasja, you have about as much say as to the legal interpretation of material found in Second Life and on the Internet as Mr. Hayes does … Meaning you have no say whatsoever.
By the by Mr. Hayes – I’ve read your statements elsewhere (The Blog of It) and can only say this: Unless you can provide a Company Name, a web page, a contact name, your real name and a phone number to call to verify the actions you have claimed as well as employment/ownership of any sort of company … well then Mr. Hayes – you’d be blowing smoke out of your ass and guilty of stalking and harassment.
Lisae Boucher
Jul 27th, 2007
Reality, that Hayes guy has been banned from that other blog and I don’t think he’s very welcome here either. After he failed to turn up for an appointment with my employer yesterday I’ve decided to just ignore him. So does my employer. I’ve also informed friends and relatives about this RL stalker of mine so I hope they’re more careful in the future. But although he is guilty of stalking and harassment, I don’t think there’s much that I can do about this.
I fear that he’s working together with some others within SL and that he just continues to discover more about me and my family. Not sure if Sasja knows him or not, though. It’s not that I’m going to believe her when she claims she is not. Sasja did however claim that she harasses me by giving notecards to other people within SL just “to stop me”. And Hayes continues to call today to my parents house and my own home so I’m starting to get really annoyed by these people.
Reality
Jul 27th, 2007
Not sure if it’s an option where you live lisae … but you can always call your phone company and have his phone number blocked (assuming of course you have a caller ID and the phone number handy that is)
That’s one way to send a message.
Yak
Jul 27th, 2007
Wow… this is still going on? I just read trough it and, after having puked, let me just say this… I saw Lisae’s galery, long before all this commotion started, when scouting my new neighbourhood. There was absolutely nothing ilegal or unethical. True, she is no Rembrandt(yet), but what she tries to do is original and fresh.
Working in Poser and combining with real life backgrounds gives it a touch of the “Magic Realism” school. There ios a lot of potential to develop there.
She does not come from the prestigious Rietveld Art Academy, but fucks around on her own, an autodidact… Respect!
Already then, I sent her a message complimenting her on what she tries to do…
What she depicts is totally understandable. She is young, brought up as a nudist (totally normal in Europe), a lesbian, and comes from a liberal culture. (I’m a countryman of hers). What she depicts reflects that.
She has maintained a proud, decent, and honest defence against all the unjust bashing and slashing. It is a miracle that she still has fun in SL after all the shit that has been unjustly poured over her head by you bunch of tight-assed puritans (yes, you… you know who you are…).
I have since contacted her, met her and discussed her art, in our own language. I find her a fine young lady, with dignity, intelligence, and honor.
As a fellow Dutchman, I am proud of the way she defends the liberal values that we grew up in here in the Netherlands, against you bunch of pityfull people from the more backward, hypocritical, puritanical parts of the world.
My 2 cents worth…
Lisae Boucher
Jul 27th, 2007
Reality, I have considered that but CallerID doesn’t always work. Apparently it is possible to prevent your number to show up as CallerID which is exactly what this guy has done. Besides, he can just buy a prepay card with additional number and just use that to call again. With every new card he’d also get a new phone number.
As I realize now, it doesn’t matter how well you’re protecting your own identity online. When people know about your friends, they will just use all kinds of tricks to get information about you through your friends. They’ll lie, they’ll cheat, maybe even offer bribes or whatever but as it turns out, the weakest link in online privacy just happens to be the ones you care the most about: friends and relatives.
But Mr. Hayes already knows that if he continues then he will end up in big troubles. My employer decided to take me into his protection against those who are trying to stalk me.
sasja Fitzgerald
Jul 28th, 2007
Wow.
Just for the record.
I’m not a stalker, not in rl and not in sl, I might wanna get this ‘art’ out off sl but I’m not so stupid that I go stalk people.
In no way am I linked to this MR. Hayes.
And iff giving out notecards to people is harrasment, well shoot me, I’m guilty.
I give out notecards on dayly basis to newbees with links to freebee stores as well.
You should know about that Lisae since your a member of the sl-newbee helpers, or did you just joined that to harras some people in that group ?
Hmm thin line between harrasment and harrasment huh ?
I give out the notecards about your ‘art’ so I don’t have to come near your stores, that’s what you wanted isn’t it ?
And I’m not giving them out randomly, just to people who know the right way’s to handle this.
Lisae Boucher
Jul 28th, 2007
Sasja, all I have is your word and I’m supposed to believe you when you say you have no connection with Hayes? Sorry, but that’s a bit hard for me to believe. Maybe all you did was give him a landmark but I have no way of knowing this for sure. All I know is that someone knows a lot of personal information about me because of all of this. And it makes me feel real uncomfortable knowing that there’s some guy out there stalking me.
And yet you admit that you’re giving out more notecards to other people with information about me and my stores. People who know how to handle it, as you claim. People like Hayes, perhaps? I’m sorry, Sasja, but your part in this isn’t as innocent as you make it appear.
What also troubles me is that in this case it’s my art. Next you might start protesting against sex-beds, furry-sex, public BDSM or lesbian poseballs or whatever else you don’t like. However, your protests makes targets out of those who disagree with you. You’re just encouraging people to take actions against things you don’t like and point out whom to harass.
Lisae Boucher
Jul 30th, 2007
Minor update. I’ve sold my land in Blister again. Well, traded it, actually. I might come over for a visit again in the future, though. But in case people wonder, those images are NOT located in Blister anymore.
Sorry to disappoint people about that, though. But in Second Life, things are always moving around.
Sasja Fitzgerald
Jul 31st, 2007
You have no proof that i know Mr. hayes, but also not that i don’t.
In the notecards are landmarks to your stores and some pictures we took.
There is in no way personal information there, how would i know your personal information anyway.
I don’t care about that.
And your last comment hits rock nor bottom.
I’m not against furry’s I’m one myself a lot off the time ( non-sexual ), I have nothing against sex beds, even not against non-sexual child av’s or whatever.
I’m against children that are being used in the name off art, and since we are in sl that means child av’s in art too yes.
Oh and I’m lying, I do am against something else and fighting that, the Nazi avaters in sl.
And it’s not protesting it’s trying hard to get that gabage out off sl in to the gutter it came from.
Reality
Jul 31st, 2007
sasja dearie – you are in no position to dictate to anyone what the ‘real’ interpretation of an image is.
stick to the stuff that cannot be taken to mean or be anything else, m’kay dearie?
Lisae Boucher
Jul 31st, 2007
Quote: You have no proof that i know Mr. hayes, but also not that i don’t.
True. But I sense a connection between the two of you. Or between him and Aaltien. Or someone else connected to you. I do know that his name is no name of any SL Avatar, though. So he uses another name. So why do you think you don’t know him?
Quote: Oh and I’m lying, I do am against something else and fighting that, the Nazi avaters in sl.
Well, you get my support for that but unfortunately that is legal too, I think. Falls under freedom of speech. Still, you could try to contact the French court about this. France is doing it’s best to get rid of this material online. I think they’ve made it quite hard for Amazon to sell that stuff to French citizens and even forced Yahoo to block access to Nazi propaganda to all French citizens. So if you’d report SL for the same offense, you’d have the same effect.
But then again, by doing so you’re also proving that you want to block more contents within SL. Maybe not sex beds or furries but you are demanding censorship with your actions. Am not disagreeing with you about this nazi stuff though. But you proved my point with that comment. So what else are you fighting against? What will you pick next? And who is to decide that your protests are justified? Who gave you the right to judge?
Lisae Boucher
Aug 1st, 2007
Thanks, Reality…
Do you think what is worse? She just confessed to take actions against Nazi avatars. I’m not too fond of them too so I agree with her that people needs to fight against Nazi propaganda, I just think her way happens to be wrong. She’s just telling people: “He’s a Nazi, go harass him!” and thus she herself is spreading intolerance within SL. And she also happens to be the one who decides who is a Nazi avatar and who is not. But who decides if her judgments are correct? Why does she get to decide who is bad and who is not?
What Sasja wants is that she tells others what they should do. A bit of a God complex perhaps? She decides what is good and what’s not and she doesn’t care about what others think because she’s always right.
Then again, if she continues with her intolerant behavior it’s just a matter of time before Linden Labs decide it’s enough and kick her out…
Reality
Aug 1st, 2007
Sasja is quite a bit like a certain former ‘reporter’ of this ‘newspaper’ Lisae … She believes that the only ‘truth’ is her ‘truth’ and that the only morals that are truly right are her own.
Sad really.
Lisae Boucher
Aug 1st, 2007
Not too sure about that. Reality. Comparing that reporter and Sasja, the reporter just sounds more sane. Thing is, Sasja wants to limit free speech. That reporter just reported about what he considered offensive but let the public make final judgments, even though he does misrepresent the facts and doesn’t really check the facts first. Considering that SL is located in the USA where freedom of speech happens to be the most important freedom, it’s weird that someone like her wants to limit it.
I still agree with her opinion on Nazi avatars, though. But she thinks it can be resolved by taking away freedom and I believe more in open discussions.
Sasja Fitzgerald
Aug 2nd, 2007
Quote Lisae ” She’s just telling people: “He’s a Nazi, go harass him!” and thus she herself is spreading intolerance within SL. And she also happens to be the one who decides who is a Nazi avatar and who is not. But who decides if her judgments are correct? Why does she get to decide who is bad and who is not?”
Oeh you know me well do you ?
I don’t tell people to harras other people.
I report them I don’t haras them, and i visit the shops to report the Nazi propaganda.
See I don’t stalk.
And I don’t decide who’s the Nazi avater, lett me show you a picture I took and then you decide who decides he’s a nazi avater.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/703/snapshot007qb5.png
Hope the link works.
And your right LL doesn’t do anything, it’s legal in de US.
And your last sentence isn’t true again, don’t judge me iff you don’t know me ok.
I go in discussion with them, ask them why they are dressed as a Nazi, nothing wrong with that.
I don’t take away freedom off speech, they can discuss, I’m alway’s open for a discussion, and I do, even tried it with you, but you weren’t open for a discussion.
SilentJudgement
Jul 12th, 2008
I didn’t read this whole article or a lot of the posts cause honestly I’ve ran into hundreds of such articles while looking for other things. And I have remained silent to a lot of what I have read because honestly what I will say will offend people and I’m the kinda guy that doesn’t like to offend people. But honestly the more I read the more that I shake my head and have to walk away. So in this one small post I’m going to do my little rant and then leave it at that.
Second Life is a game, a game people, its a game for the love of all that is Holy…if there is anything Holy. This is like several other games I play where people complain about cussing and certain situations. Let me tell you something, most games online dealing with Sim like Mods, RPG’s, FPS’s and RTS’s are going to have violence, nudity, sexual images, possible sexual situations, and cursing. We do not live in the age of the ignorant and uneducated. These things are going to happen in everyday life, and most games are based of events, ideas, or precepts of every day life. If you don’t like what you are seeing, or what you are playing then don’t play it, don’t look at it. If you are afraid your child may see it or play it then don’t even download it or buy it.
Parents are responsible for their children NOT the game companies or software designers. They are in it to make money and that’s exactly what they do. Don’t agree with the system then don’t support it. In these cases of “horrendous” acts of sexual misconduct the question is “did the situation apply to you?”. In games that people gripe about cussing most times its because they have a child with them or have kids that play the game with them or so on. If you don’t like it then do not put yourself into the situation period. Its the choice of the individual to make that choice not the Game Company, not the people that made the Mod, not the people playing the way they want to play.
If this was to happen in RL that is one thing, but in a Game it doesn’t in any form or fashion hurt my feelings nor my morals. I know the difference between Reality (ie. Real World) and Fantasy (ie. made up illusion world filled with imagination.) and it seems that others don’t or just don’t care. With that said people need to lose the attitude that the world is some “Perfect” place where there are flowers everywhere, rose tinted glasses and that there is a concept of everlasting peace where violence, nudity, and swearing does not exists and realize that the world is the opposite.
In other words what I want you to remember is this: Reality is different then Fantasy and a game is meant to be fiction and fantasy. Stop trying to make it out to be reality and for the sake of your children teach them the difference and be a real parent that teaches their kids right from wrong and what is the difference between Reality and Fantasy and that if they do not like something then do not put themselves into this situation…and maybe you will learn something yourself from that.
Dizzy
Sep 24th, 2008
Wow… I think my IQ just dropped 50 points reading this stuff… Between the bickering, the bad typing and grammar, and the general stupidity of it all.
LOL
Sep 25th, 2008
I think Linden Labs is a bunch of Pedophiles it’s self. Second life is with out a doubt a game Stacked full of Sex Sex Sex. the Top 10 paid classifieds are all for Sex sims, Sex Shops, Escort clubs and Sex animations. That being said, why does Linden Lab Allow Child chracters in a game that is obviously run by Sex?