The Alphaville Herald

Interview with Gorean Mistress Maria LaVeaux and her slave, Toy

by Alphaville Herald on 02/01/04 at 9:55 pm

In this interview we talk with practitioners of Gor, Mistress Maria LaVeaux and her slave Toy. They discuss their pre-Alpha careers as cyber-escorts in other TSO cities, their arrival in Alpha, and their introduction when Lady Julianna called Mistress LaVeaux to mediate a dispute between two Doms in the Alphaville BDSM community. They discuss the practice of Gor, its culture, history and language (as well as the fictional/literary origins of Gor), and explain the ways in which it differs from other forms of BDSM. They explain how Gor is a projection of their inner selves and is not inherently wedded to any set of doctrines and they reject the claims of some vocal Alphaville residents that they are a BDSM cult.

Urizenus: I’d like to start by asking how you two got into TSO. Let’s start with Maria.
Mistress LaVeaux : I have played off line sims since the start,
Mistress LaVeaux : Playing with real people interested me.
Urizenus: was this your first MMORPG?
Mistress LaVeaux : it is the first time I have interacted with anyone on the net.
Mistress LaVeaux : I mostly downloaded reading matter before.
Urizenus: So what was your first city on TSO?
Mistress LaVeaux : I lived briefly in Interhogan, my first full life was in Blazing Falls as Angelique DuPres.
Urizenus: And were you a Domme from the beginning?
Mistress LaVeaux : Yes, there, I was a Domme, a stripper, and part time Hooker.
Urizenus: lol, that’s quite different from your AV persona.
Mistress LaVeaux : Not Really,
Urizenus: Ah so you were a Domme for hire?
Mistress LaVeaux : Yes. , it worked out nicely.
Mistress LaVeaux : I have always been very free sexually in here…
Urizenus: lol
Urizenus: can I ask what you charged?
Mistress LaVeaux : Around $5000 a sim Hour. [about 15 minutes]
Urizenus: that doesn’t sound like enough for a sim hours work, but maybe “work” isn’t the right word.
Mistress LaVeaux : Lol,
Mistress LaVeaux : I gave it up because it was very lonely work.
Urizenus: wait, being a hooker was lonely work? How so?
Mistress LaVeaux : I would be with women,, some I liked almost immediately, but they rarely came back…
Mistress LaVeaux : there were many who just wanted to experiment, but few who wished to have a continuous affair…
Urizenus: so most of your customers were women? why was that?
Mistress LaVeaux : I only do women chere,, I am Very Gay.
Urizenus: oh right, sorry
Mistress LaVeaux : No need to be sorry,, I am not.
Urizenus: lol
Urizenus: When did you move to alphaville
Mistress LaVeaux : I moved to AV about 8 months ago after losing a sub i was very fond of.
Urizenus: Toy, how did you discover TSO?
Toy: toy played UO for almost 4 years before leaving ‘cause of the awful scamming……..
Toy: toy had the sims and liked it so gave TSO a try
Urizenus: scamming?
Toy: yes, cheating among some players
Urizenus: Was there a BDSM community on UO?
Toy: if there is toy wasn’t aware of it….. UO is a bit more involved than TSO is.
Urizenus: Why do you think TSO gave rise to a large BDSM community while UO apparently did not even after 4 years?
Toy: perhaps the lack of things to do…. lets face it.
Urizenus: lol
Toy: skilling greening and making money gets very boring
Urizenus: did you come to AV immediately toy?
Toy: no, toy lived in JP at first.
Urizenus: was there a BDSM community there?
Toy: again, if there is toy wasn’t aware of it. toy was a escort in JP hehehe
Urizenus: lol
Urizenus: ok, escort for men or women or both?
Toy: both
Urizenus: when was this?
Toy: last january
Urizenus: ok, since I asked Maria I have to ask you. How much did *you* charge (let’s compare notes, hehe).
Toy: hehehe. toy got up to 25k for an evening
Urizenus: was it vanilla cybersex or BDSM oriented?
Toy: a bit of both…. it is how toy found her interest in BDSM
Urizenus: you discovered it while working as a cyber-escort?
Toy: yes… toy found it then…. toy knew of it before but never had had any contact with it
Urizenus: so some customers asked you to r/p as a bottom and you liked it?
Toy: yes, some asked to be topped also but toy was uncomfortable doing that
Urizenus: you preferred bottom.
Toy: its what is inside this girl
Urizenus: so you both arrived independently in AV, and how did you find each other?
Mistress LaVeaux : I had been exploring the cities BD/SM community…
Mistress LaVeaux : I made friends with Lady Juliana at Dementia almost immediately.
Urizenus: and you met Toy there?
Mistress LaVeaux : One night, she asked me to mediate a dispute between two Doms…
Mistress LaVeaux : toy was a witness, along with two or three other subs.
Urizenus: Let me ask some questions about the mediation Maria. First of all, why was Lady Juliana involved, and second, why did she ask you to mediate, and third, is this a typical way for disputes to be resolved in the BDSM community in alpha?
Mistress LaVeaux : Lady Juliana was a resident in the house, along with the two Doms in question, as the owner of the house at the time had been AWOL for some time, and peace needed to be re-established, she asked me, as a neutral party to see if i could clear things up.
Urizenus: So it was a one time thing — you being asked to mediate a dispute?
Mistress LaVeaux : I have been asked on several occasions to help with disputes, or just to give advice…
Mistress LaVeaux : I seem to impress people,, God knows why,, as someone who can give clear advice. Lol.
Urizenus: let me bring in Toy now….
Urizenus: so Toy, you met Maria and then what happened?
Toy: well, toy belonged to a Dom at the time but wasn’t happy….. he is still a good friend but not what this girl needed…
Toy: toy needs a short leash hehehe and he just didn’t seem able to accomplish that
Urizenus: how did you know that Maria would keep you on a short leash?
Toy: toy didn’t actually but had been very impressed by Her while she was settling that dispute……
Toy: toy didn’t like run off to be with Her either. toy was given to her
Urizenus: ok, how did that come about?
Toy: the Dom had been told this by another sub that she thought Mistress Maria could be much better for toy… toy wasn’t involved in this at the time
Toy: didn’t actually find out about it till it was all done
Urizenus: ic, so he gave you up because he thought it would be best for you?
Toy: yes.. this is what toy has been told
Mistress LaVeaux : May i add something?
Urizenus: please
Mistress LaVeaux : The relationship between Dom, and sub is , or should be, a very caring one, apart from everything else…
Mistress LaVeaux : toy’s former master put toy’s wellbeing before his own desires,, an act of genuine caring, for which, he has my deepest respect and admiration.
Toy: also……..
Toy: at first toy was told she would just be given to Mistress for training.
Urizenus: is Toy collared?
Toy: yes
Urizenus: Did that happen immediately Maria?
Mistress LaVeaux : As soon as she was given to me, I knew she was something very special…
Mistress LaVeaux : Within a week of her being given to me, i offered, and she accepted my Collar. that was nearly 8 months ago.
Mistress LaVeaux : something of a record I believe.
Urizenus: Let’s back up a second, what does it mean to be collared?
Mistress LaVeaux : toy and I talked about it,, and it was she who first delved deeply into it’s meaning…
Mistress LaVeaux : For a Domme to Collar a sub is roughly analogous of a Vanilla Marriage with one very important difference…
Mistress LaVeaux : A Marriage is an equal partnership,, when a sub is Collared, they are forever taking up a submissive position. Not equal at all….
Mistress LaVeaux : (The main reason why I, personally, think it is an error for a Dom to Marry their sub.
Toy: to this girl her collar is the most important thing in her life….. it has been called a bit like a marriage but toy feels it goes much deeper, its a total commitment, so many things are involved. loyalty, honor, trust, commitment……. a way to serve that has made this girl very happy
Urizenus: Were you both students of Gor at the time of the collaring?
Mistress LaVeaux : No.
Mistress LaVeaux : I had heard of it before,, being a very stern Mistress by nature, people assumed I was Gor…
Urizenus: When did you two discover Gor?
Mistress LaVeaux : Within weeks…
Urizenus: who found it first?
Toy: toy read about it and talked to Mistress about if she could be allowed to learn more about it
Mistress LaVeaux : I knew of it,, toy explored the writings out of curiosity, and we both decided to incorporate it as our life.
Toy: and its not like.. finding Gor, its more of a discovery of what is inside oneself.
Mistress LaVeaux : I agree toy.
Urizenus: And what are the writings?
Mistress LaVeaux : The books of John Norman, and various addenda by enthusiasts.
Urizenus: so there are fanfic addenda to the Norman books?
Mistress LaVeaux : Yes,, a great deal of it.
Urizenus: Maria and then toy, can you explain some basics about Gor?
Mistress LaVeaux : Gor put a Name to what i already was.
Mistress LaVeaux : The basics are this…
Mistress LaVeaux : Gorean culture is based on the culture of an alien world where slavery is an ingrained and culturally accepted practice…
Mistress LaVeaux : Gorean slaves are primarily, though not exclusively female, while the Masters are primarily, but also not exclusively male.
Mistress LaVeaux : there is a language, a culture, a history that we honour.
Toy: so many think of Gor as mainly ‘by the book’ but that is limiting oneself to really discover what it really is to be Gorean.
Toy: Goreans, both men and women, are deeply passionate and emotional people, and openly express that passion….Their deep love for life and freedom of
their natural selves is neither hidden or suppressed……. Gor is about honesty as to who you are and why……. It is a life of free men, women and slaves…….
A life that’s built with Honor, Trust, Respect and Loyalty
Mistress LaVeaux : it gives substance to what we already are.
Mistress LaVeaux : Mainstream BD/SM practitioners do have a certain mistrust of us..
Mistress LaVeaux : We are viewed as brutal, and uncaring of our slaves wellbeing…
Mistress LaVeaux : all patently untrue.
Urizenus: What do you say with the assessment of Anonymous (a Rose Thorns community member) that Gor is a kind of cult? Maria, then toy
Mistress LaVeaux : Normally, i do not answer such comments at all being that they are usually made by the woefully uninformed….
Mistress LaVeaux : As a cult,,, we have no charismatic leader,,, no Common aims,,, we are, in cultural terms not dissimilar to other BD/SM practitioners…
Mistress LaVeaux : We only embrace a set of cultural mores that lend real substance to what we already are.
Urizenus: toy?
Toy: toy would answer that anyone can label something they don’t understand.. and a cult has leaders but, Gor is about being what one is…. and in doing so there can be no leader.
Mistress LaVeaux : Get three or more Gor Masters/Mistress’s in a room, and you will see just how NOT a cult we are.
Urizenus: What about critics that say you guys are taking a cheesy novel way too seriously?
Mistress LaVeaux : Any hobbyist takes what they do seriously.
Toy: toy would agree if, and only if, it was strictly adhered to as ‘holy writ’ from the books…. all we do is take basic concepts from the books and apply them to our daily lives.
Mistress LaVeaux : today is new years day,, thousands of people are camped in front of T.V.’s taking football way too seriously.
Urizenus: Well, Maria, earlier you said that “there is a language, a culture, a history that we honour”. What could that possibly mean, given that the language, culture and history are all from a fictional work?
Mistress LaVeaux : As I said twice before,, it adds flavour.
Mistress LaVeaux : What matter where it comes from as long as we enjoy it?
Mistress LaVeaux : You are familiar with Star Trek?
Urizenus: Hmmm, but do you think there is a kind of reality to the language and culture beyond its fictional existence?
Mistress LaVeaux : Only the reality we choose to make of it.
Mistress LaVeaux : Like the trekkie that speaks fluent Klingon.
Mistress LaVeaux : None of them REALLY believes in a Klingon home world,, but it makes things just a little less mundane for them.
Urizenus: So this is similar to trekkie fandom?
Mistress LaVeaux : After a fashion,, yes.
Toy: learning the language to toy is furthering her skills to be a better slave…….
Toy: much of the Gorean language that has been added to what is in the books comes from some Native American Indian languages.
Mistress LaVeaux : To expand toy’s point…
Mistress LaVeaux : The structure we practice makes her a better slave, and I a better Mistress,, far more focused.
Urizenus: toy, can you give us a sample of the Gorean language?
Toy: toy uses it mostly when serving Mistress such as…. Jaw goha kari hani Avan’shea…….
Toy: toy is simply telling Mistress her dinner is served.
Urizenus: What is the literal translation?
Toy: Your meal is ready Mistress… or close to that it’s been awhile since toy did it literally
Urizenus: Avan’shea is mistress?
Toy: yes and Vana’she is Master
Urizenus: so ‘a’ is the feminine ending?
Toy: yes it usually is
Urizenus: what does ‘kari’ mean?
Toy: kari braksa means be well
Urizenus: so kari means ‘be’?
Urizenus: and then ‘hani’ means ready?
Toy: it would yes. some of the words can have multiple meanings as to how they are used. toy still has much to learn of the language
Urizenus: Is the language being developed in the Gorean fanfic?
Toy: it is used in TSO by many Goreans just to add to our feeling of what we are.
Toy: toy could give you a web address where the language is broke down and where toy is learning it
Urizenus: that would be great
Toy: http://www.counter-urth.com/CF/index.html
Urizenus: ty
Urizenus: How many Goreans do you suppose there are in alpha?
Toy: hmmmm…… a hard question. but ones who have been there awhile and have stayed are probably less than 10
Urizenus: some have left?
Toy: well, left or were not really Gorean and weren’t committed to it
Toy: its the same with the D/s community.. many come and leave but it basically stays the same core
Urizenus: Do you think that when you engage in r/p in alpha you are engaged in a kind of extended Gorean fanfic?
Toy: since toy looks at TSO more as a MUSH than a MMORPG she would say yes
Urizenus: Do you feel you are helping to develop the basic doctrines of Gor?
Toy: toy has no such thoughts. toy will answer questions about Gor or as much as she knows……
Toy: toy feels one has to have Gor inside oneself or its just playing and then toy hasn’t the patience for that
Urizenus: Didn’t Toy write a Gor collaring ceremony?
Mistress LaVeaux : More after a Gorean outlook.
Toy: more M/s than D/s is basically what it is
Urizenus: ic
Toy: a basic difference between Gor and D/s is the idea of a sub giving the gift of submitting
Mistress LaVeaux : If your previous question was meant to ask if we recruit,, the answer is no.
Urizenus: no, it wasn’t about recruitment
Urizenus: I was thinking that perhaps the doctrines of Gor were very much a work in progress…
Urizenus: and that you could think of your activities on TSO as developing the practices and doctrines of Gor
Toy: toy just likes to share what she has learned to any who are truly interested
Mistress LaVeaux : for some,, yes… mainly for those who want to tailor Gor to fit what they are, rather than find in themselves if they are Gorean or not.
Urizenus: think of tso as being a crucible in which you can forge the doctrines of a new religion
Mistress LaVeaux : No,, not at all.
Urizenus: you disagree with that
Mistress LaVeaux : Of Course…
Toy:…….. Gor is what one is.. it isn’t something can learn to be. the learning only is for knowledge of what one is……
Toy: they are just to help this girl know what is acceptable behavior and how she must behave……
Mistress LaVeaux : You can convert to a religion,,,
Mistress LaVeaux : but a deer cannot convert to wolfism.
Toy: toy believes and often says. knowledge is the only protection a slave has
Mistress LaVeaux : Gor is not what you believe,, it is what you are.
Mistress LaVeaux : I was a Gor Mistress long before i even heard of Gor,, because that is how i did things.
Toy: toy would also say if there were just us two in AV or all of TSO so be it…. toy would still be what she is and wouldn’t need more Goreans around her.
Urizenus: ok, both of you express your Gorean identities in your in game bios. Why?
Mistress LaVeaux : No doctrines here,, only a set of words used to describe what we really are.
Toy: toy believes what she has in her bio in game. toy used to change it weekly from quotes from the novels
Mistress LaVeaux : I describe myself in accurate terms…
Toy: toy may start doing that again since things are returning to a normalcy
Mistress LaVeaux : You asked why we use Gorean terms to define ourselves for others….
Mistress LaVeaux : My response is,, those Gorean terms are the most accurate description of what we are…
Mistress LaVeaux : If i was going for just a near thing,, i would use BD/SM terms,,,
Mistress LaVeaux : Language is a growing, and changing tool, when a word does not exist that accurately describes something, a new word, or one from another language is coined for the purpose.
Mistress LaVeaux : For example,, the light at the setting of the sun had no name in the english language until William Shakespeare called it Twilight.
Urizenus: ok, so do either of you remember what is in your bios at the moment. (for illustration)
Mistress LaVeaux : I have three Bio’s in three cities,, each is slightly different.
Urizenus: so what do they say?
Mistress LaVeaux : One is a quote from a song by sting,, “Moon over Bourbon street”…
Mistress LaVeaux : One is a quote from Paradise Lost by Milton.
Mistress LaVeaux : I don’t remember the other off hand.
Mistress LaVeaux : “It is better to rule in hell than serve in Heaven”
Toy: the top part of this girl’s is in Gorean language
Toy: they say in english “this red silk salve belongs to Mistress Maria LaVeaux…….. collaring date May 10th, 2003
Toy: and toy’s quote is from the novels…. “You may judge and scorn the Goreans if you wish. Know as well, however, that they judge and scorn you.
They fulfill themselves as you do not. Hate them for their pride and power.
They will pity you for your shame and weakness.”
Urizenus: Do you get harassed in any way because of your bios?
Mistress LaVeaux : No.
Toy: no, toy is often asked what language it is is all.
Mistress LaVeaux : I think people are too frightened to harass me. Lol.
Toy: hehehe
Urizenus: I know that Maria and I have talked about the problem of minors that chase adults for sex. Maria, do you still think that is a problem, and do you think you get chased in part because of the themes you emphasize in your bio?
Mistress LaVeaux : No.
Urizenus: to which part of the question is that no?
Mistress LaVeaux : The teens use a scattergun approach to trying to find sex…
Urizenus: but you’ve had a real problem in at least one case, right?
Mistress LaVeaux : Yes,, but that young person had No idea what I was, or what I liked,, they just wanted sex.
Mistress LaVeaux : they go to every house in the love category looking for unwary partners,,,
Urizenus: So how persistent were they? Did you shake him/her off eventually?
Mistress LaVeaux : It is like the many young males who approach me unaware that I am gay.
Urizenus: Do you run into this too Toy?
Mistress LaVeaux : Unlike many,, I try to talk to them,, make them understand why I cannot give them what they want,,,,
Toy: once in awhile toy does but toy uses the embarrassing them technique
Mistress LaVeaux : In truth, I think they hate that more than an adult just banning, and ignoring them. Lol.
Urizenus: what is the embarrassing-them technique?
Toy: ummmm well for instance…….
Toy: a guy IM’d toy once saying he had ’12″ of dick for her”…….
Toy: toy replied……..
Toy: You do???? OMG… spit it out your gonna choke!
Urizenus: rotflmao
Mistress LaVeaux : I would have asked where the other 11 guys were?
Urizenus: lol
Toy: that usually ends it by toy being called names hehehe
Urizenus: So what is the solution to minors in alphaville. Or is there no solution?
Mistress LaVeaux : No,, there really isn’t.
Toy: there is no solution.
Mistress LaVeaux : They are out there,, and we just have to cope.
Urizenus: not even to make it an adults-only server
Mistress LaVeaux : How?
Toy: nope
Urizenus: dunno. lol
Mistress LaVeaux : Even if you do,, teens have many ways to get past verification.
Toy: kids are very smart, they know how to get around blocks
Urizenus: right… but this is advertised as a game that is rated Teen. They could at least change the rating on the game.
Toy: good grief. on kazaa one can download adult verification passwords
Mistress LaVeaux : You cannot rely on big brother to take responsibility for you,, they are out there, and if it means you have to be careful,, then BE Careful.
Mistress LaVeaux : Oh yes,, we all know how much ratings will help. Lol.
Urizenus: lol
Toy: parents have to gain control of it…. if they have a teen, the computer they use can’t be tucked away in their own rooms.
Mistress LaVeaux : Be Honest,, most people want to be ruled,, it is uncomfortable for them to take responsibility,,,
Urizenus: ok, let me ask both of you now about whether you think a Gorean community might emerge in Alphaville, or whether it will stay small.
Mistress LaVeaux : To me,, it is a small miracle that the BD/SM community is so large,,,
Toy: it will remain small toy believes…. it may grow at times by ones ‘playing’ at Gor but basically it will remain the same core as it is now.
Mistress LaVeaux : We are by nature,,Dommes AND Masters,, very independent.
Mistress LaVeaux : Getting us together in large groups is difficult.
Urizenus:
Toy: or agreeing on anything hehehehe
Mistress LaVeaux : Goreans are far more arrogant by nature,, that is why we will remain spread out.
Toy: arrogant??? moi??
Urizenus: I think this is a good place to stop. Do either of you want to discuss anything that I didn’t cover?
Mistress LaVeaux : I just want to say this,,,
Mistress LaVeaux : As Goreans,, we are strict,, and stern,, but we are not Monsters…
Mistress LaVeaux : There are no plots,, no organized subversive activities…
Mistress LaVeaux : We are just people,, we love, we laugh,, we disagree.
Mistress LaVeaux : We are no threat to anyone any more than any other common group in TSO.
Toy: toy would only add that this girl has never been happier than she has been in the last 8 months serving is what this girl loves doing and finds her own happiness in doing so….. “wonders if perhaps Mother Theresa was a bit of a submissive”
Mistress LaVeaux : Accept us if you can,, or leave us alone if you can’t, that is all we ask.