Everyone Gangs Up on the Alliance Navy
by Pixeleen Mistral on 15/04/07 at 10:25 pm
New strategic arms treaty for SL combat groups
by Curious Rousselot, war correspondent
Merczateers and others want a new treaty
Friday April 13, 2007 at 5:00 PM PST most of the organized combat groups of Second Life started the process to craft a new treaty on the use of arms and rules of war within Second Life. The meeting, organized by Ethan Schuman of the Merczateers. Representatives of the Alliance Navy were conspiciously absent from the initial meeting.
Up to this point, most combat groups in Second Life have operated under the rules of the Second Life Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SLSALT). This effort was largely led by the Alliance Navy but involved many other combat groups, including the Merczateers. At that time the two groups were allies but a recent falling out has resulted in the current war between the two groups.
The Merczateers are not the only group who have issues with the Alliance Navy, Inuyasha Deere of the Charleston Revolutionary Navy believes, “what the Mercz believe, shooting [the AN members] will not destroy [the AN]. Isolating the AN will do so, as they will be isolated militarily and economically by [this new treaty], leading to their demise or cooperation with the [treaty] militaries, mafias, and gangs.”
Ethan Schuman wants to fix the SLSALT treaty
Despite the animosity and the lack of Alliance Navy representation at the meeting the reasons for the new treaty was not an aspect of the current war but, “Becauase the current one, (SLSLALT) is flawed”, according to Anthony Lehane. He went on to say, “[the Alliance Navy] will be able to join after a certain amount of time, however.”
Ethan Schuman also commented on the current SLSALT issues, “The current treaty we all abide by, the SLSALT, was developed mainly by the Alliance Navy. Since the RL death of its main author, the SLSALT has not been updated to cover battle tactics and weapons many armies consider to be cheap and unfair, such as phantom rounds which can pass through anything.”
The current talks are attempting to fix aspects of the current SLSALT that are viewed as flawed by many of the combat groups. For example, there is a rule in SLSALT that avatar flying without a vehicle is not permitted but the use of anti-gravity backpack attachments (grav-packs) apparently is permitted as these are standard issue in the Alliance Navy. A nickname bantered around the meeting, Agreement for New Standards Under Combat/Killzone Scenarios (A.N.S.U.C.K.S.). This received much amusement from the participants.
When asked about the AN, Ethan Schuman explained, “We’d have liked to have had AN in from the start, contrary to popular belief”. He went on to explain that the original name of new talks is Military Organiztion Standards for Conventional Operations and Warfare (M.O.S.C.O.W). Kado Maurica suggested the name Unified Combat Standardization Act (UCSA). Although totally off topic, my favourite suggestion (for comic relief) was, “I have vague memories of something similar in Calvin and Hobbes. G.R.O.S.S. or Get Rid Of Slimy girlS. I would like to think that this meeting revolves around a level of maturity surpassing Calvin of that delightful comic.”
As the talks for the new treaty continue to go forward the organizers are hoping that all the combat groups will get fair representation with equal opportunity to talk and the opportunity to moderate the meetings. Ethan Schuman told us, “Now as for why we hosted, and why there’s Mercz logos around everywhere, we just happened to have the lab free, it’s low lag, and we figured it’d be easiest and quiet here.”
Inuyasha Deere found the meeting, “excellent, while I use to be a hater of Mercz, I have realized their excellence within their orgnization and I comply with all of their requests. If they got where they are, they must have done something right.
Proteus Hand
Apr 17th, 2007
“Considering that Alliance Navy personnel were on the same floor, in the same connecting hallways, moving from room to room, it’d be a bit hard and a bit stupid to be bombing parties within to blackscreening, right?”
Quite stupid indeed.
“The proper method for attempting to amend a document is usually to contact most, if not all major interests in the document and to say something to the extent of “lawl, amend plx”.”
Actually, I used a delightful function for making my proposals called “create proposal” It was added into SL by the Lindens during a massive update during the summer, and at the time was used for spamming notices, and quickly became underused when the “notice” feature was added into a later update.
I would very much appreciate you not confusing me with one of your peers : “lawl, amend plx”.”
“I mean, I’d hope I know, considering I was two or three doors down in the office of Fat Pow and thus within range of the blast, and that Alliance Navy personnel were on the ground outside the Kremlin moving to penetrate openable windows and the roof, right?”
Also an outright lie, because anything NEAR the Kremlin was getting baked. All it took was one string of whatever explosive it was that your fleet used, and that entire eighth of the sim was fried.
(Also, don’t try to counter with “Our bombs only cover a radius much smaller than what you described, so you are obviously lying.” because I am not so naive to think that you only fired a single bomb per run, rather, a cluster of said bombs to cover an extended area.)
“This, of course, leaves aside the argument that there wasn’t enough action focused on one person to be intentionally blackscreening. Teleports failing is an issue with Second Life and a risk assumed when engaging in Second Life combat”
Yes, failing teleports were an issue, but that didn’t stop several of you from unloading on our troops after Cirius and I ordered our troops to stop firing.
This in turn, created black screening, needless to say, the victim didn’t go anywhere, but this only proved an advantage for the culprit, whose only chance for defeat was by being caught during a reload.
(note that this also applies to several Merczateers as well.)
Proteus Hand
Apr 17th, 2007
“I hope you mean a council of peers, because a third party council to be classed as a third party can not have ties to any given combat group. and I’m sure the AN, and any combat group that has commanders with any brain cells wouldn’t listen to such a council.
a council of peers what I think your talking about would be a council with reps of each combat group that joins such a party, each having equal say in any matter. or maybe you meant having a council leader who is third party, but that member would have to be elected once so often by simple majority vote.”
Actually, Schuman and I argued a bit over which it should actually be. A third party council would most likely be an moderative group comprised of outcast members of both groups with the better interest of Second Life Military at heart.
Of course, MOSCOW would more than likely be a council of peers, but I think that if it were not active enough, it would fall into obscurity like SLSALT has, but if it were too active, it could very likely start arguments based on the appropriate weapons for combat, ROE, etc.
I think both would actually be necessary, but a third party would be much more difficult to set up, and if the Commanders of any given group decide not to obey such arbitration of a third-party council that has been agreed to have authority by the majority of the members of council-peer groups, then they will no longer be recognized as an official military.
This is one of the larger issues with SLSALT, as it had no moderative branch in which to carry out judgment with, in fact, I think the closest thing to such a concept would be the AN, (or so they would think themselves to be) which also, I believe, is the source of several conflicts.
Proteus Hand
Apr 17th, 2007
“I’d hope you aren’t going to argue that this constitutes an overwhelming majority of the military groups in Second Life, considering that all three of the previous groups, plus three additional groups, plus all remaining active signatories of SLSALT are being invited to a revision process. You’ll find that this outnumbers the assured signatories to MOSCOW by a good amount.”
That is, if you count the seven disbanded groups, if you don’t, it leaves the AN and Corsair as the only remaining signatures of SLSALT.
Phantom
Apr 17th, 2007
a Peer is someone with some aspects of identity that is the same, the AN is a combat group, the mercz is a combat group. they are peers in that fact, if you deny that, you deny your group as a combat group and nothing much a group of griefers.
and to have a fair council, you’ll have to have a council that isn’t going to be basis by letting any combat group into the council not just groups you choose. if a group becomes destructive after they are given a fair chance then yes, with a simple majority vote they can be removed. but not giving them a change gives the council a basis to begin with.
don’t don’t even say you gave the AN a chance you denied them first an invite then banned them when they showed up.
so already the chance for a fair council that represents combat groups in second life is basis to the mercz.
yes I do realize that there are groups out there that would only cause more issues joining a council, having people make alt armies to gain votes, so making a required standings of groups to join the council would be excitable, like age or size of the main group of the combat group, since most groups have multiple groups but normally one main group to act as a hub.
Phantom
Apr 17th, 2007
Sorry, didn’t see your middle post for some reason. so at least you understand what a peer is, but that third person council wouldn’t work, and only a hand full of combat groups at best will join something like that.
Architect Jarrico
Apr 17th, 2007
First off, I am going to assail a quote eloquently stated by Proteus Hand in regards to the false rigidity of the SLSALT and the Alliance Navy, “This is one of the larger issues with SLSALT, as it had no moderative branch in which to carry out judgment with, in fact, I think the closest thing to such a concept would be the AN, (or so they would think themselves to be) which also, I believe, is the source of several conflicts.” The SLSLT and the AN both have a seperate group within their confines that moderate the actions of the previously stated, contrary to your unfounded comment. I am such a member of the moderation group of the Alliance Navy, JAG (Jury Advocate General), and the group ‘SLSALT’ is the moderation group for the treaty itself. By the way, any of you may contact the heads of the Alliance Navy JAG group to inform them of any issues you may have with Alliance Navy Personell.
I would like to say at once that, in addition of your ill-informed attempts at bashing the AN on multiple fronts, you seem to be unable to be bothered with editing a previous treaty that had already been put into place, which is still active, I might add, and it is quite easily edited and rewritten. You have instead taken lead of a fool’s errand and an attempt to monopolize the other combat groups out there. I do not fully grasp why you would submit yourself to such an irksome burden as forming a new treaty and a group to moderate the treaty. Last I have heard, you may, without any hesitation from its current members, as few and hostile as they may be, join the SLSALT group, and sign the treaty yourselves, something decidedly denied from the AN before the meeting to form the treated was brought together. Many of you fail to see the simplicity of that either fact, that is it much easier to edit an existing treaty than to start a new one, and that the proposed new treaty is already incredibly biased toward the annhilation of a single group from SL, as well as attempting to monopolize other combat groups. How can a treaty with such problems ever hope to come into full existance? It cannot, because, even if it did wipe out the AN (which I unblinkingly doubt), it would fall apart immediately, whether from draining income away from improperly funded combat groups, or direct opposition to the treaty itself by alienated groups in the foreseeable future.
The only fail-proof solution to this problem is the updating of the SLSALT that many of you helped form, but neglected to maintain. Once again, you can easily join the moderation group of the treaty, and easily amend the treaty once you update your status in the treaty, unless, of course, you have failed to sign it in the past, whereareas you may add your name to the treaty.
Regardless, I, unlike many of you who posted above, and prolly below in the future, will not remove my own group from scrutiny, something I ask of you; take a step into the third person and review your own group before you question another. Of course, the SLSALT should have been updated by the AN, the treaty’s primary benefactor, to suit the desires of other combat groups. Quite simply, we neglected to update the SLSALT like many other groups did, even though no requests were made to it by any other group. I would like to think that the AN would take the first step and call a general meeting for all combat groups, regardless of status, to revise and edit the existing treaty, since other groups seem lethargic when something needs updating.
Instead of the mudslinging you all very much seem to prefer to actual problem solving, post below some suggestions for the AN to include in an edit of the SLSALT. That would greatly clear up some issues within the perhaps foggy view the editors of the SLSALT may have for things that need fixing.
Thank you.
Warrant Officer-1 Architect Jarrico, Senior Drill Instructor, Jury Advocate General Advisor
Proteus Hand
Apr 17th, 2007
The Alliance Navy has declared quite a few wars on various groups, if I do remember correctly, for simply not following SLSALT. JAG, is enforcing SLSALT inside the AN, whereas the AN ITSELF enforces SLSALT among other groups, which is often the cause of the commotion.
And the process of creating a new treaty instead of editing SLSALT is not only because of currently severe (and immature) issues on both parts, we intend for the new treaty to focus your attention upon yourselves during your brief period of exile.
Consider it a very grandiose, yet appropriate manner of giving a very grandiose group a “time out”.
Nacon
Apr 17th, 2007
Some of you need a bowl of C4s for breakfast.
Seriously… this is becoming a children non-sense. More good reason why we need to send in report for large gathering of minors running about… but as long you’re off my lawn.
( Yes, I’m an old man screaming “damn kids, get off my lawn!” )
Phantom
Apr 17th, 2007
Naco, even old men can act like big babies, and little kids.
urizenus
Apr 17th, 2007
even old men enjoy RP.
Nacon
Apr 17th, 2007
yup, and you’re doing a good job at that too.
Proteus Hand
Apr 18th, 2007
Disregard that, I suck cocks.
Thank you.
Warrant Officer-1 Architect Jarrico, Senior Drill Instructor, Jury Advocate General Advisor
Bruno Ziskey
Apr 18th, 2007
Proteus. do NOT insult Mr. Jarrico like that again, as he is a military man in RL, and I have nothing but respect for him, partly because he shares my interest in protecting our country, but also because he is a very capable soldier.
Luca Vasilopita
Apr 18th, 2007
I like how Proteus managed to sign his name under the fake post by Mr. Jarrico, it really shows both his level of maturity, and his skill of “cyber bullying”.
After looking at this article I can pretty much assume that the parties involved in ANSUCKS/MOSCOW haven’t really thought too much into this. Consider, if you will, the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, or the four Geneva Conventions. In all 6 of these conventions, it does not say at any point that a force HAS to abide by the the points of the conventions unless they are a signature member. This in a sense means that even if the ANSUCKS/MOSCOW Conventions are to go forward, unless all parties use non damage land theatres, non SL damage weapons, and all abide by the rules set by the ANSUCKS/MOSCOW Conventions, they are still engagable by Alliance Navy personnel on damage land.
From personal experience, I can say this;
“You don’t see any of these Jihadists or insurgents abiding by any treaties, that’s why it’s so one sided right now. We have our rules, they have theirs. It just happens that in their case it can double up as a religious cult span out from a religion” – Cpl. Jeremy Pockett, 42cdo. RM
Boss Delgado
Apr 18th, 2007
I find it funny…………My little bro wont play me on fifa football on my xbox because i have practiced and learnt all the fuctions and got my players up to scratch………. Little bit like the mercz and all of ANs enemies……..:)
Inuyasha Deere
Apr 18th, 2007
This “War on AN” is going nowhere. If any side wants to prevail, both sides need to become neuteral, and then reorganize their forces before going to war again. Seriously, the W-Hats are just as big of a problem as AN. F*ck somethingawful.com.
Ethan Schuman
Apr 18th, 2007
Actually Luca, it’s quite the opposite. If Alliance Navy personnel attempt to engage MOSCOW groups on MOSCOW land, they will be treated as any other unauthorized presence: First warned, then given a local, temporary ban. Further incursions will result in a long-term ban across all MOSCOW faction land.
The problem that many factions have with the Alliance Navy is that they operate under a sense of entitlement, like it’s their RIGHT to engage other factions in warfare, to do battle over ANY damage land, and also that they feel they have a RIGHT to be a part of this accord. This is simply not the case. The Alliance Navy has the right to do whatever they want (as long as they obey the Terms of Service and any applicable laws) on their own land, but as soon as they step foot outside the Woofer or their Tethys outpost, they must adhere to the wishes of the owners of the land on which they stand. That’s a standard ALL citizens of Second Life follow, military or not.
Phantom
Apr 18th, 2007
Ethan, don’t be an idiot, oh wait a little to late on that one.
the Mercz are running away from fighting with the AN. changing to a in game combat system, making it clear that the AN is not welcome to join, and the AN wouldn’t join anyways. but if the AN wanted to join, I’m sure you would do everything in your power to prevent them from doing so.
the very act is announcing your surrender to the AN.
and don’t be a Hypocrite, don’t tell me the Mercz have never took the fight to the enemy. most of the time and I’ve seen this a new combat group will come and attack the AN, then the AN attacks back. If no one attacked each other in this game then there would no use for damage land, it would all be this political shit and maybe a war game once and a while.
so please think before you open your mouth Ethan, because so far all that’s come out of it is little more then idiotic
Ethan Schuman
Apr 19th, 2007
Phantom,
The Alliance Navy was later invited to join the MOSCOW conventions, with absolutely no limitations or sanctions. They declined to do so, and are now making an attempt to impulsively create their own treaty in order to preempt the signing of MOSCOW. Fortunately, what they fail to realize, is that MOSCOW is not about Mercz, or AN, or any individual group, it is about the community as a whole, and addresses issues ALL parties (even the Alliance Navy) recognize need to be changed.
Also, a personal challenge to you. You seem informed about the happenings of the combat community, so this leads me to believe you are a member of a group. Post with your name and rank. I’d like to know who you really are.
Phantom
Apr 19th, 2007
Phantom Noel, that’s the name I’m going by as of late, I’m not in a combat group right now, but I have ears in some of the main groups.
Luca Vasilopita
Apr 19th, 2007
“Actually Luca, it’s quite the opposite. If Alliance Navy personnel attempt to engage MOSCOW groups on MOSCOW land, they will be treated as any other unauthorized presence: First warned, then given a local, temporary ban. Further incursions will result in a long-term ban across all MOSCOW faction land.” – Ethan Schuman
If I am understanding this correctly, this means that if somebody refuses to play by your rules (SHOCK! HORROR!) then they will be banned. This in a sense is the example of short sightedness that makes military groups in Second Life useless. Consider the fact that setting up an alt is as simple as filling in a few forms and then logging in, then consider the fact that a smart combatant with capable build and scripting skill will have prepared themselves weapons that they can transfer to and from accounts. Now, you have a problem. A force can continue to come and go as they please because you chose to take the easy way out of Second Life combat. This new method seems to promote a sheer lack of effort and skill compared with the age old demoralisation of enemy combatants within a combat operation. But then again, when you get demoralised to the point of shutting off your sim to group only, clearing it completely, trying to rebuild in a distinctly familiar fashion, and then spinning a nice little web of lies and deciept to your fighting force… effort doesn’t really matter does it?
“Actually Luca, it’s quite the opposite. If Alliance Navy personnel attempt to engage MOSCOW groups on MOSCOW land, they will be treated as any other unauthorized presence: First warned, then given a local, temporary ban. Further incursions will result in a long-term ban across all MOSCOW faction land.” – Ethan Schuman
It seems you are aggrevated by the appearance of a non combatant within this discussion. Given your constant hands in the air drama queen approach, I would assume that any publicity is good publicity. The average SLer is slowly becoming aware of the combat situation, which has in part been caused by media groups like the SL Herald. I would like to take this moment to say that anybody who posts here who is not a combatant within a group directly linked to this situation should probably just do as Mr. Schuman says, or he may just start throwing his toys out of the pram.
Ethan Schuman
Apr 19th, 2007
Luca,
The greatest paradox of SL combat is that combat itself has no effect. I can shoot you in the face with a rocket launcher seven times, with your buddies watching. In real life, such a sight would cost your faction not only the dead soldier, but the horrifying image would shatter the morale and psyche of any surviving witness. In Second Life, it’s a quick trip home, a re-insertion into the battlefield, and things are right back where they were. Normal methods of weardown don’t work, you have to force the other side to give up. The Alliance Navy isn’t giving up any time soon, and neither are the Merczateers. This treaty is not about you, it’s not about me, and it’s not about either of our respective factions. It’s about bringing a positive change to an area of Second Life that’s needed it for quite some time. The fact that your command staff is so egocentric and nihilistic to assume that these events have transpired only because of “us vs. them” is utterly rediculous, and comical at that. The bottom line here is, we’re trying to do something good for the community, something you were invited to be a part of no questions asked (and declined), and you are sitting here still trying to pick a fight. If this was about personal squables, you never would have received that invitation, so your whole argument has been debunked.
With regards to the second part of your post, in which I assume you misquoted and meant to refer to my addressal of Phantom, my challenge was simply one to him to put his money where his mouth is and see if he was speaking with credibility.
Ethan Schuman
Apr 19th, 2007
Correction: Narcissistic, not nihilistic. Long day at work today.
Proteus Hand
Apr 20th, 2007
“Disregard that, I suck cocks.
Thank you.
Warrant Officer-1 Architect Jarrico, Senior Drill Instructor, Jury Advocate General Advisor”
^
|
Bruno, Luca, I promise that wasn’t me.
(Luca, Nanao gets that kind of abuse almost every time he posts here, why should you be so gullible in the event that the impostor guises himself as me?)
harlequin salome
Apr 21st, 2007
Given some of the things we’ve been informed you’ve said about members of our group, myself included, when you thought you were behind closed doors, I honestly do not know what to think about you, Proteus. *shrugs* God knows what you might say.
Lt-UnReaL
Apr 24th, 2007
i srsly c wut u did thr
phantom
Apr 24th, 2007
Lt-UnReal, when you post on a forum, or comments it’s a good idea to try to write, at least to a point that it could be understood.
Inuyasha Deere
Apr 26th, 2007
Yes- chat speak is… ish don’t tink so. It will officially turn you into Roflberry Pie with a whole live fifty pound blue cat on the side.
Longbow Miles
Apr 28th, 2007
I say damn the AN and the Mercz. I tried to join the AN today and was told that there was a 2 month waiting time for my alt account. My previous account had been put on hold because I was an unregistered user.
I decided to go to the Mercz base instead, and there, the AN Soldier, Jeremy Duport was telling them i was a griefer.
I was shot before i could do anything.
When I tried to tp back to Badnarik, I was killed after i shouted “why shoot me, i didnt do anything”, to which jeremy reported sarcastically that the Mercz were getting a lot of griefing today.
All this happened despite the fact that I was unarmed, made no threats and didnt fire a single bullet.
I thought the AN were supposed to be anti-griefing.
And the Mercz were griefing too, so damn them.
Longbow Miles
Apr 28th, 2007
I say damn the AN and the Mercz. I tried to join the AN today and was told that there was a 2 month waiting time for my alt account. My previous account had been put on hold because I was an unregistered user.
I decided to go to the Mercz base instead, and there, the AN Soldier, Jeremy Duport was telling them i was a griefer.
I was shot before i could do anything.
When I tried to tp back to Badnarik, I was killed after i shouted “why shoot me, i didnt do anything”, to which jeremy reported sarcastically that the Mercz were getting a lot of griefing today.
All this happened despite the fact that I was unarmed, made no threats and didnt fire a single bullet.
I thought the AN were supposed to be anti-griefing.
And the Mercz were griefing too, so damn them.
Phantom
Apr 29th, 2007
Longbow, Since I new of the AN there was always a 2 month old account wait. the only time this is ignored is one, you prove you have an alt that is old enough and they like you, or you know some one high up in the AN IRL or at least out of SL
and as for the Mercz why would the grunts of them fire one some one the AN tells them too? I mean come one you most be pulling my leg here or the Mercz are that stupid.
Phantom
Apr 29th, 2007
oh and Inuyashee could you make less sense?
Ethan Schuman
Apr 29th, 2007
Phantom, for the love of God, please don’t tempt him to try.
Microsoft Sam
Apr 30th, 2007
My name is Microsoft Sam. I am sick of this stupid shit. Now I am fighting back, if you could just notice now, the Woofer Has dissapeared. I blew it up with my mind.