The Alphaville Herald

92 Responses to “Casino Allegedly Pays Jack Squat on $16000 US Jackpot”

1. 

   Xavier Griffith
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   Just so everybody knows, I to saw the win. The machine quite clearly showed the win on it. Yes it shows she had more than L$400k on it because of smaller previous wins, and she was playing a L$500 machine that Hunter put down and as pointed out earlier has since removed in an attempt to try to show that Rhonda and others are lying. Yes most of the people now are members of the RB Casino Jason, but that only went up after Hunter ripped her off from her win.

   TP, I think you should pull your head out of the clouds because you obviously have no idea what your talking about except spewing s**t. Tell me are you actually a friend of hunter, probably and your post would indicate it.

   It doesn’t really matter what Hunter says, he has been caught out fair and square. Its obvious to me that he didn’t have the money in his account to pay the win, hey s**t happens and both Rhonda and I can accept that it happens every now and again, as well as the fact that SL had been playing up 2 days before the win occured so again, benefit of the doubt to Hunter here, maybe there was a problem, but the amount of evidence for the win is just too great for him not to pay it. Shivers, as a business and SIM owner myself I understand that there are people out there just out to scam money out of me, but even I couldn’t deny this amount of evidence. The transaction histories on SL are pretty good, and its easy to trace the information that you need to prove either way if somebody is legit or not, Hunter has NO excuse for this, and besides being a scammer, a cheat and a ripoff merchant, he is also now slandering people and making accusations of extortion and blackmail. Lets face it, what could Rhonda possibly blackmail him or extort him with? And the fact that Hunter on the German board claims that its L$200,000 proves he is lying because its obvious from this story and the posts and the evidence that it is L$400k.

   I would like to add here before finishing. I to have dealt with Hunter with his Sc Design mall, i too had no problems with dealing with him and found him open and helpful. When I was first told that the machine didn’t actually pay the winnings I saw on it to her I felt sure that Hunter would honour the win as an honourable business owner, unfortunately he has proven that he isn’t as honourable as we thought and I would never put one of my businesses in any of his malls again after this.
2. 

   Khady
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   The german community is paying a good amount of attention to that case. We will not tolerate any fraud, but – as you know – it´s always easy to condemn someone very fast. So please keep us informed. We´re still waiting for the gentleman´s reply on Jason´s Thread at slinfo.de.
3. 

   janeforyou Barbara
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   Linden Lab got nothing to do with this. This is a case between a casino and a costumer.
   Read the TOS.Linden Lab may be able to “talk” with the parts here, but thay cant do any serius.
   In Norway there was a guye RL that “wonn” in lotto the other day.. a few mill. Then the lotto company ( Govermental) Told him it was a error.Thay send him som flowers.
   There was big protests in the press here but that dident help any.

   So lesson nr 1 Do Not Trust Anyone with your Lindens$ in SL!!!

   I had a questin some time ago,,, a “bank” in SL asked me to “invest” like 100.000 L$ and that give me 2% a week on it… =104% proffit over 1y ( thay told thay invest this RL)IMAOOOO….if things was like that i be a Dollar billioner!!

   Again.. dont trow your L$ away on casino, or in “banks” dont pay anyone opfront for anything
4. 

   Coincidental Avatar
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   This story got a rather lame swing More details seem to come out.

   “We are talking about a casino owner who is unwilling to talk about paying out a jackpot, blocking IM’s refusing to reason or work out the problem.”

   You speak alone at your own risk. Because if nothing happened, you might have committed a crime too. I read that you were not even there and know nothing first hand.

   “Question is What would YOU Do if you was the one who won, and was unable to collect your winnings?”

   Read my post and think about my questions instead of ignoring them. And not to commit more crimes. Still no date provided for the incident. “Rhonda” doesn’t say in which jurisdiction she resides.

   Here https://secure-web3.secondlife.com/account/transactions.php “Rhonda” could collect the RL evidence that she ever paid something to Hunter, but “Rhonda” didn’t take that step. (Of course, the transaction log alone can’t prove that she won something.)

   If Rhonda has a case here, I think that she should consider contacting the German police and maybe publishing her RL name. I would ask German police if the implications published by Hunter in the german blog were a defamation crime in Germany. (This of course works the other way too, if necessary.) Hunter seems to be aware of this risk, because he wrote so vaguely, but I think that it is obvious about what Hunter was writing.

   LL has their no-responsibility bullshit about the commerce in SL, which might violate too much the consumer rights in California to be legal. It might be wise to try to circumvent the commercial bullshit by trying to escalate this case to a crime case (defamation).

   LL has earlier provided information about for example griefers when LL has been slightly persuaded.
5. 

   urizenus
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   I think it is one thing for the Lindens to say they are not in the business of resolving disputes between residents, but it is quite another when they withold evidence that would inform the community whether this is a case of …

   i) a dishonest casino owner
   or
   ii) a user trying to extort money from an honest casino owner

   I think it is shameful that the Lindens do not have a mechanisms in place to provide documentation in disputes like this. Whether that documentation is damning or exculpatory there is absolutely no justification for the Lindens to sit on it.
6. 

   shockwave yareach
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   I would say, give this to a Linden. With the following conditions:

   - if LL finds Rhonda Bosen either cheated, hacked, made up images and/or logs, then she and every alt she possesses are Permabanned for attempted Grand Theft.

   - if LL finds Hunter has not paid a legitimate win, and does not do so within 7 days time, Hunter and his alts are likewise Permabanned for Grand Theft. Furthermore, all his holdings will go to Rhonda as her prize – this includes all land and builds on said land.

   - if LL finds that a script error has occurred and the actual prize to be less, then Hunter shall pay the prize that should have properly been awarded. All scripts with this error will then be taken offline and fixed.

   By all means, take it up a notch. But the seriousness of this case means that when all is said and done, somebodies ass needs to be in the briefcase when the review is over. I’m not sure if a gaming commission would work since that group would have to be able to see inside the scripts, and few gamemakers allow anyone to see their inner workings (for a couple of good reasons, like revealing encryption keys.)

   What would be a good and workable idea though would be to send email messages to a 3rd party server that holds verification for all wins over 10000L. Require this on all games that can exceed such an award. When someone wins a giant prize, the email goes out with the details of the win and a 3rd party has them. If someone tries to photoshop their way to a megaprize, there is no email to the 3rd party and the fraud is obvious. If the casino won’t pay, the 3rd party will notify LL of the casino owner’s fraud as well.

   This is a simple thing for gamemakers to add in — in fact it is two lines of code. And by putting on a SEAL OF TRUST, showing that that machine gives verification and the player is more likely to get their prize money, machines with the verification will be used more than those without.
7. 

   shockwave yareach
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   Urzenus:

   today, there really isn’t anything possible to verify the story. One can demand that Rhonda tell the transaction number where she paid Hunter 500L — no transaction number, no payout. But all that would prove is that she played the game at least once, not that she won anything.

   A third party who gets emailed the details for any prize over 10000L is a simple approach to keeping both parties honest. As I said before, someone isn’t being honest here and if they want to push the matter, somebody needs to lose everything because of it. If she photoshopped the picture and there are no transactions to Hunter, then the Lindens will see that. If she made transactions which are far lower than that needed for the prize, they will see that too. If her transactions show she won a prize then Hunter needs to suck it up like a gambler should and pay up, else lose his holdings to her.
8. 

   Inspector General
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   Okay, okay. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. I’m just here to point fingers like everybody else.

   But it does seem to me quite strange that you would pump $L500 into a slot machine in a place where there are newbies sitting in camping chairs for a measly L$10 an hour and at least one of your witnesses has only L$189 in his screenshot.

   And I’m sure, Rhonda, you are not so much a newbie as to not know that many slot machines are “fixed” and rip-offs. If you regularly go around popping L$500 bets into these boxes, you’re bound to get burned sooner or later.

   Most people pop a consistent amount into a slot machine – let’s say $50 – and due to the repetition inherent in slots (i.e. “pulling the handle” over and over again), they usually tend to keep on using the same amount.

   But you’re saying that you were making smaller bets – maybe you’re different and you’re the kind of person who places a different size bet each time you “pull the handle” – L$25, L$36, L$5, L$120, L$2, L$500 JACKPOT!!! That just seems strange to me. But I won’t any assumptions on what your betting strategy is. Maybe you do things like that.

   Still, it’s rather folly to pump any more $ into things that are famous for being scams in many cases.

   And you certainly MUST be aware of the Linden’s policy against illegal gambling in SL, aren’t you?

   I actually feel sorry for you – and I truely *WANT* to take your side in this – I want to believe that you are simply a naive woman who was taken advantage of by an unscrupulous scammer. But baby (er, I mean dude), looking at this from an outsider’s perspective, taking in all the information presented here, I can honestly say that undeniable proof of your “innocence” has not been met.

   You have ONE screenshot that should be indisputable proof – the one where the machine itself says in chat that you won, and other people are acknowledging your win. The problem with it is – no AV mentions the amount in chat. You could have won L$400 and a simple photoshopping of ONLY that number that the machine shouted in chat in the screenshot would be necessary. The rest of the chat could actually be about any amount.

   I would love to help you – nothing would give me greater pleasure than bringing sorrow to a dishonest casino operator. Especially a german one, since I will admit I am extremely prejudiced against naz… er, I mean germans, to the point of being a real bigot about it. I may also harbor the same bigotry against guys who pretend to be girls – I’ll have to consider that point.

   But there is an unwritten “caveat emptor” that you would do well to tattoo on your forehead – it goes like this…

   “NEVER GIVE ANYBODY MORE L$ THAN YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH LOSING”

   And it should also be appended “IF YOU DO SOMETHING AGAINST THE TOS – DON’T F*CKIN’ COME CRYING TO ME BECAUSE IT BIT YOU IN THE ASS”

   If you feel that you were cheated, I’m sorry. But apparently people are ripped off an awful lot in SL. It’s just another life-lesson that we learn as we grow. And some lessons, unfortunately, are more expensive to learn than others.

   This german guy – Hunter Whatever – from the screenshot of his profile, we can see that he owns many casinos and would probably be concerned for his reputation. If I were him, I would just give you the L$ just to get rid of you. The only reason I can assume he’d refuse is if it were in fact a blackmail scheme.

   The facts left for us to consider are…

   1. you may have presented a convincing case, but you have not attained a reasonably undeniable proof.

   2. you were gambling, which is against the stated terms of service.

   3. i hate germans

   As I said, I’d love to be on your side on this, but the facts just won’t allow it.
9. 

   Leon Castro
   

   Jun 22nd, 2007
   

   Sorry Anzo I ment Jason in my previous post.

   The previously posted transaction hisory states the date of the incident (13th June SL Time)
   142 361222078 Date: 2007-06-13 03:29:12
   Type: Payment
   Desc: Fortune Cookie 3.10
   Region: Sc Design
   Destination: hunter Noland
   L$5,000 L$34,610

   Rhonda has Islands called Summer Rain and a 2 sim Island Guadalcannal. In RL, Australia.

   It is so frustrating that Linden Labs will not even say who is telling the truth.
10. 

    Resident
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    First of all I’m not a friend of anyone involved in this incident and I’m not taking anybody’s side. I wasn’t there and I don’t know what really happened.

    Before jumping to any conclusions I must ask “Where is the proof?”.
    So far I saw only 2 pictures displaying the amount won. When 1 of them is cropped and in .jpg format. Can we please have the original?
    The other proof is various people claiming that they saw the win.
    Anything else said is just speculation and irrelevant.
    I’m not saying that Rhonda manipulated the images but contrary to what many belive it’s pretty easy to do so. Even the complex screenshot posted by Achourus Klees are easy to make by somebody with medicore photoshop skills and some imagination. It’s just very time consuming if you want to make it look genuine.
    Now, would you spend a day, maybe a week trying to manipulate a picture for a possible gain of 1600$. Some people would definitely do.
    Why didn’t you take 10 screenshots or even 100 from different perspectives? Why didn’t you call all your friends to come and take screenshots and be your witnesses? How about making a small movie? This would make your case very much stronger.

    On the other hand if I were the guy owning the casino and my reputation would be under attack by a scammer, I would move heaven and earth to defend it.
    First I’d try to undermine the proof because as easy as it is to manipulate the picture, so is finding out the signs of counterfeit if it’s poorly made.
    If that would’t work I’d try to undermine the person and his/her motives. Maybe it’s about money, maybe about finishing off the competition or maybe a long forgotten grudge.
    Next would be the witnesses. I’d try to find out as much as possible about who are they and why are they doing it. Alts, friends, business partners?

    Let’s hope it’ll get resolved and we’ll find out the truth.
11. 

    Kahni Poitier
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    If she can post the texture ID of the picture in question (since it was taken as a photo, and not to her HDD) I would find that to be pretty darn hard to manipulate.

    And any honest casino owner wouldn’t delete the machine in question, ban the person in question, and hide all traces of his scamming.

    I’m strongly on Rhondas side on this issue.
12. 

    Artemis Fate
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    “If she can post the texture ID of the picture in question (since it was taken as a photo, and not to her HDD) I would find that to be pretty darn hard to manipulate.”

    Take shot to HDD, manipulate, upload, texture on big flat prim, take snapshot of prim. Done.

    Not that i’m saying that’s what she did, I still think that in all likeliness Rhonda is telling the truth and Hunter is just an ass, but i’m biased against Casino owners. Just saying that it’s not impossible to do and in fact not very hard.
13. 

    Bubbles
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    Does this story surprise anybody? I mean get a grip, of course casinos in SL are scam. I don’t know if thick people should be protected from themselves, it’s probably good for evolution.
14. 

    shockwave yareach
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    Artemis: While not impossible to do, the technique of uploading a prizeAmount texture onto a prim and placing that over the actual texture on the game machine, requires the club to allow building. Most casinos and clubs won’t allow building because it attracts griefers.

    At the moment, I don’t have enough hard data to make an informed opinion. My uninformed opinion is that the casino owner behaved oddly. Banning a suspect thief I can understand, but deleting the only evidence he had of tampering or theft I cannot understand, unless he was hiding something. Were I in his shoes, I’d store the game securely elsewhere in the sim and get an expert to examine it.
15. 

    Jessica Holyoke
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    And once again, locality becomes an issue. I’ve seen a few responses that the casinos are engaging in illegal activity beyond Hunter’s accused fraud. I’m still looking to see if internet gambling is illegal in Germany, which is hard for me because I don’t know enough German.

    Looking at Austrailian law, Rhonda, if Austrailian, and I’m not sure of all the implications, (Austrailian solicitor/barrister help?)but if Rhonda, as an Austrailian accessed prohibited internet gambling, then the Lindens as the ISP are responsible for blocking that access.

    So, the counts seem to be US, no gambling, Austrailia, no gambling, but if you are outside of Austrailia, you aren’t liable, the ISP has to block the capability, Germany, don’t know yet.

    Why do I bring it up? Because if SL is so international, then even if you are complying with your local laws then you may still get yourself or others in trouble with foreign states.
16. 

    Artemis Fate
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    “While not impossible to do, the technique of uploading a prizeAmount texture onto a prim and placing that over the actual texture on the game machine, requires the club to allow building. Most casinos and clubs won’t allow building because it attracts griefers.”

    No, no, no, I mean, take it to harddrive, manipulate the photo in photoshop to change the number from whatever to what it is now, and then upload the photo and take a picture of it so that it looks like it’s an unedited picture of the person in the club. Doesn’t have to be done in the club or anything.
17. 

    tp
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    “Does this story surprise anybody? I mean get a grip, of course casinos in SL are scam. I don’t know if thick people should be protected from themselves, it’s probably good for evolution.”

    That is pretty much my way of thinking. People can’t expect SL Casino’s to be legit on big high stakes stuff, especially from a scripted single player slot machine.

    I’m sick of this story but I keep coming back to it because I want to see someone officially say they are either an idiot or a scammer.

    My final recomendationi to anyone is play poker at an all poker house if you want to gamble in SL. A lot of good players and it is a fair game usually for tournaments anyway, you can’t discount the people colluding in voice chat but they can only win so many hands doing that. When I say all poker house I mean all VGA tables and zero slot machines and camp chairs. Slot machines and camp chairs are just screaming out to morons
18. 

    Rhonda
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    b090a5b0-0413-80d6-101b-d6b7ba606c23

    that is the id of the photo I uploaded now I zoomed in when I took the photo using the alt key and positioned the camera in a way that you could see the win as I was VERY excited about it i didnt take the photo for proof of anything to any one in the first place just to show my friends I won that many lindens… as for the bets I was not playing small bets at all I was betting 500 L and 1000L bets . anyone who wants the photo please IM me I will send it to be checked It is real I am not scamming or trying to extort money I dont NEED the money its the principle of the thing. the photo was taken out of excitement for the win look how often do you win 1.5k usd in SL.. So the photo was taken to only show my friends I won BUT when i hit that collect button and I didnt collect my winnings I was GLAD I had the photo.
19. 

    Xavier Griffith
    

    Jun 22nd, 2007
    

    Ok, first thing, I can understand people being skeptical, its in our nature, at least I hope it is for people to want proof and I’m glad that people are seriously looking at this issue.

    Secondly, the image on the original article here is in fact a .jpg format, but I assume this has been done for size issues by the owners of the paper. The actual original picture is a snapshot image taken in SL. Anybody who wants the image can contact me in world and I’m happy to give it to them. For peoples reference, the original snapshots UUID is: b090a5b0-0413-80d6-101b-d6b7ba606c23

    4. yes, Rhonda’s Avie is a female, so is she in RL, so Inspector, you can put your mind at rest on that issue.

    5. Jessica, under Australian Law, they can gamble in online casinos as long as the casino is not located with that country.

    6. I agree, that this mess isn’t just going to go away, it might never have come up in the first place had Hunter decided to do the honourable thing and pay the win, there is certainly enough information for him to check it out, all he had to do was download his transaction history from the SL website and it would have shown him a – amount on it when the machine tried to take the money from his account to pay the win, but he hasn’t done that, at least not from what we can see and being the skeptic, would he be honest about it if it was actually the case, but even if he was honest, he could have stopped this really bad publicity by coming to terms with Rhonda and making some kind of deal to pay it off to her, she doesn’t seem to be completely unreasonable about the whole thing and the fact that he may not have all the winnings straight up. But I have to say, his silence is deafening.

    7. in finishing, I really do think that LL needs to look at this and perhaps investigate and mediate the issue. The problems now are not just between Hunter and Rhonda but even LL is getting bad publicity now by not actually doing anything to investigate this matter of what (IMHO) amounts to a case of Fraud. What could be even worse is if Rhonda decided to take this to one of the Australian Current affairs programs on TV in Australia and they picked it up, the publicity in Australia for LL in particular could be very damaging.
20. 

    JackFrost
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    Hah. That really sucks. There isn’t any way to really prove that she won, either… screenshots can be shopped and logs are easy to fabricate. I would be pissed!
21. 

    Coincidental Avatar
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    “The other proof is various people claiming that they saw the win.”

    I understood that there is even one person claiming that Rhonda won even if (s)he was not present in the casino

    I was expecting a 500 L$ bet in the transaction log, and I thought that 500 L$ was the maximum bet allowed, but I see only larger sums in the transaction log. I started to wonder how much money she uses for on-line gambling.

    What comes to that “Object shouts” message in the chat log, it too could be faked easily. Just create an object with the suitable name, carry it as an attachment in the casino, and trigger the shouting. I see from the screen that scripting was enabled, what doesn’t matter because the prohibition is easy to circumvent in this shouting case anyway. So, if somebody wants to have fun, (s)he can make an object which shouts constantly wins in a casino.

    Note that this thread has been edited by SLH. I don’t know if it matters or not, as long as SLH officially knows that it has happened.

    This becomes interesting if Rhonda won and the damned machine just failed to pay because of a computer glitch in SL. I guess that the money system is the same quality as the other parts of SL, thus it is not at all clear that there will be a log about a failed payment somewhere. I guess that the machine doesn’t either keep a log of wins. Certainly LL doesn’t have logs about what scripts do.

    Well, I suppose that the next thing we will read here is that SLH made this story up.

    Just in case, the Germans have now been warmed up to lynch the culprit. Earlier LL treated the business owners of SL like trash but trying to do the same with the hordes of Germans might be a serious mistake. Thus, LL, sort your crap out soon or die.
22. 

    Coincidental Avatar
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    Case almost closed.

    Didn’t Hunter claim in the German blog that large bets/wins were not enabled?

    Rhonda claims that her transaction log shows large bets. Her transaction log will evaporate about 12th of July. Before that she must print out a print screen copy which must be proved as original printout from SL system. Otherwise her credibility drops below zero. I assume that there is a system in Australia too to get any document verified. Probably somebody in Germany is interested in the log.

    Hunter nicely excluded the computer-glitch hypothesis.

    Those who know gambling, is there still remaining loose strings? Can Hunter explain himself out from this?

    What comes to LL, if they have not changed the response text of the abuse report recently, they have committed to solve the case too. If being involved constitutes another crime, LL have caused their vulnerable position anyway themselves. Being too money greedy in business usually causes some problems
23. 

    Naked Kaiser
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    May I add to the speculations as no additional facts have been provided so far.

    Two months ago Hunter Noland took possession of the german sim Sansi Bar by setting up a secret deal with the former owner who had gone broke and left SL. Mr. Noland evicted all landowners and tenants from the private island and refused to reimburse them for their tier and investments. He also refused to comment on that matter and didn’t post to the forum for several weeks.
    From his posts to the German forum slinside.de one can tell he is a tough-minded individual and absolutely aware of any detail regarding SL business, specifically gambling, SL technology and AV psychology.

    I think the matter discussed here will never be resolved. The Lindens won’t help because of US anti-gambling legislation (same applies to German courts)and Mr. Noland knows that he is safe while everyone else is standing on shaky grounds.

    As Hunter Noland is a regular and knowledgeable contributor to slinside.de he might be nominated again for their Hall of Fame as he was once before. Moral in regards of private property isn’t a big issue in Germany.
24. 

    Naked Kaiser
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    I am sorry having mixed up two German forums. I meant slinfo.de when instead I typed slinside.de.
25. 

    Paulie Vavoom
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    *********************

    FROM A CONCERNED CASINO OWNER

    I have been watching this story develop with considerable interest over the last couple days, and submitted a statement to the editors of this publication on Thursday, which they chose not to publish.

    Let me first state that Skye Club Oceania Casino feels disheartened for the way SL resident Rhonda Bosen has been unable to collect on her slot machine winnings.

    Unfortunately, there are many bogus casinos operating in SL, and many malls and boutiques that seem to add gaming equipment as an afterthought, but do not possess the financial resources to be a legitimate member of the professional gaming industry. This gives Second Life a bad name, and is frustrating for established, reputable casinos, like Skye Club Oceania.

    In an attempt to try to bring, at least some good to a horrible situation, Skye Club Oceania Casino contacted Ms. Bosen and offered her 10,000L to spend any way she chooses, and granted her FREE enrollment in the Skye High Roller Club, an offer normally extended to loyal players that commands a 1,000L entry fee. That would benefit her because she would be entitled to monthly drawings for Linden Dollar Rewards, exclusive events, and RL prizes.

    Ms. Bosen politely refused the 10,000L based on principal, but should know that the offer remains standing, if she does not feel she receives adequate justice and compensation from either Linden Labs, or the nefarious casino owner in discussion.

    We make this offer to make a statement to the SL community, that not all casinos are bad and corrupt. Yes we realize that, like any business or profession, there will always be a few bad apples. We maintain, that we are a Golden Apple, and don’t wish to be associated with bad businesses.

    Skye Club Oceania recently paid off a progressive Jackpot of 77,011L to player Chris Ariantho (see: http://www.theskyeclub.com/News.htm) and has paid off significantly higher Blackjack, Roulette, and Craps winnings to Skye Club Oceania players time, and time again. These payments are received instantly by our players, since our casino is bona fide, and backed by substantial capitol.

    We have days where the winnings paid to our players, far exceed those of Ms. Bosen’s. That means we loose money on those days, as casinos do loose, as well as gain. Legitimate casinos, like legitimate business, are able to weather the inevitable bad storms of their industry, and prosper on their performance and dutiful execution during those events.

    –Paulie Vavoom/Skye Club Oceania Co-Owner

    **********************
26. 

    Coincidental Avatar
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    I think that Rhonda can’t win this case because of her friends are worse than her enemies. Additionally the evidence has surfaced piecewise. And some hardcore nonsense evidence has been offered too. Even the date of the alleged incident had to be squeezed out. And the zeros do not match. Was the bet size 500L$ or 5000 L$? Her transaction log shows 5000L$ bets and she says the she bet 500L$-1000L$. Well.

    By now Rhonda must understand that the SL picture she provides as evidence is not very much evidence. But she still offers it as evidence.

    How competent is Rhonda technically? Does she do photo manipulation every day?

    The claimed earlier business practices of Hunter are no evidence either in this case. Such claims make Rhonda look desperate. Additionally, the earlier integrity of Rhonda too was questioned here earlier. True or not, equally irrelevant.

    “The Lindens won’t help because of US anti-gambling legislation (same applies to German courts)and Mr. Noland knows that he is safe while everyone else is standing on shaky grounds.”

    The Lindens must help because otherwise they are facilitating a casino operator with their inaction. The Lindens are screwed here big time. Either they help the gambler or they help the casino operator. Helping the gambler is the lesser evil here. The reason why they don’t want to do that is that they receive a bigger income from Hunter.

    What comes to German courts, what do you know about the application of the law in Germany? Or about anything?

    Linden Lab is an American company and if they do not want to enforce private ownership in their in-world economy, how does it become the fault of Germans? I have earlier written that Americans do not know anymore what ownership means. Additionally Americans seem to be rather useless in solving this case. Shame on America.

    Actually I see that Hunter has more vulnerable position here. Rhonda can wipe him out from SL even if nothing ever happened, because Hunter is in the casino business. Hunter is a good blackmailing target.

    Rhonda has kindly posted the transaction numbers and I assume that many wait a verified version. Hunter can do the same and publish his verified accounting. I expect that the other of them soon comes up with excuses why (s)he can’t show the original transaction log.

    It would be really funny if neither of them want to provide the log. But Lindens could publish the transaction logs of the both still.
27. 

    Coincidental Avatar
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    I’ve got 60 days protection in my credit card payments against trade disputes. Thus, if I have proof that LL has not provided the promised/legal service towards my payment, I can safely cancel the payment afterwards at the cost of LL. The credit card company will return it to my account.

    This is one option to negotiate with a stubborn merchant, if it fits the future plans.

    Postponing payments until the merchant has delivered what he has promised is another legal way to negotiate.
28. 

    anon
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    Linden harbors scammers period. This is just another possible instance.

    But no matter your feelings on this particular case, others have been ripped off, cheated, and scammed on Linden’s servers. Linden gives all rights to the sim owners that purchase land through them and continue to advertise even “New and Impproved” protection to their scams by giving sim owners any control whatsoever over the Abuse Reporting System. So now these protected perpetrators have even more protection and you can send your Abuse Reports directly to those that allow or perpetrate the scams on their sims. What better way to allow a sim owner to continue to scam? Oh no, give them more tools and protect the dollars coming in from them.

    The answer is simple, if you want land, you have to purchase from Linden or take the risks of eventually being thrown off and never recoup the money and losses unless you approach them legally. Even if you do purchase the virtual space from Linden you would still be expected to consult legal consultation in the matters, the only difference is, at least you know you are dealing with the company who allows it and provides the service.

    Purchasing via 3rd parties says a couple things. One, no matter if the land (virtual space) is purchased or not, you do not own anything and Linden will state that you take it up with the criminal stealing your money. Linden owns everything. You do not even have access to the database to backup your viritual assets.

    All this non-sense postings in here about “it’s your fault, you should know it’s a scam” is wrong. Saying that a person is “learning a deserved lesson” is wrong. There are no rights given to thieves by most common laws. IT IS ILLEGAL, UNLAWFUL, and WRONG. Again, Linden protects these people. Why would they boot a person paying them for 100 sims monthly because a few lost all their money when the sim owner decides to resell what others already purchased?

    Tired of this shit? Do something about it. Contact your visa company and file abuse against any L dollars you used to purchase. That’s all Linden understands and thus they will have ever increasingly more difficulty with major credit card issuers.

    There are ways to deal with it. As for the person above saying something about Linden’s TOS, you are kidding right? I mean, you do realize that any real court of law Linden would be ate up and spit out for their TOS?

    All the protections in Linden’s Tos goes to Linden, not the people, not
    the residents, nothing other than Linden.

    There will be ever increasing law suits heading for Linden. They appear aware of this and await for it to happen. They sure take no stance and work towards removing the scammers and fraudulent activity from SL.

    This is just my opinion, but I’ve seen far too many people scamming others and nothing being done about it.
29. 

    Inyur
    

    Jun 23rd, 2007
    

    AD HOMINEM

    DEFENITION: An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the person”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument’s proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.

    This is exactly what we are seeing here. Many are sceptic to Rhonda’s win, by nitpicking her pay in amounts 500-1000, saying she messed with the photo.

    Bottom line is she won, she did not get her winnings. The chat said she won, how much?

    22:55] Fortune Cookie 3.10 shouts: Rhonda Bosen Won 400000L$ on Fortune Cookie

    WOW she won 400,000$L

    well it was a L$ 500 machine the win was 800x so 400,000 L$.

    [22:56] Fortune Cookie 3.10 whispers: Rhonda Bosen Thank you for playing Fortune Cookie.. Like to play again?

    cashed out but where is the cash? Noland did not have 400,000$L available at check out time.
30. 

    Rhonda
    

    Jun 24th, 2007
    

    coincidental avatar
    the reason the transactions from my transaction history shows 5k paid each time to hunters machine is because i was putting 5k a go playing it out putting more playing it out.. the machines give options on how much you want to start with in them please go check them out they are AOS machines you dont just put in what your betting you can put more in so you dont have to keep paying…. as for hunter paying more to lindens well I think you are wrong again there the sim his casino is on he doesnt even own and the land his other business is on is on rented land… where I have 3 sims I own them I also have a fair size chunk of mainland, this is not about extortion or blackmail.. if I just wanted Money I would have accepted offers made to me recently , I pay my own way in sl and I expect hunter should do the same he knows I won that jackpot why else did he ban me and delete the machine ?? I would LOVE linden labs to step in and fix this I bet hunter wouldnt like that now would he? because then he would be caught out as a cheating fraud, DID Hunter get where he is now by cheating people? Hunter Knows I won that jackpot and he just wont pay up or even admit the truth, so maybe everyone here could ask Linden Labs to step in and solve this I have asked I have sent reports to them many times and still no response so maybe if who is reading this can also contact Lindens to help they would have to come and help sooner or later if a lot of people message them? So please help solve this and contact Linden Labs they will have what you need to solve the problem… so are you all willing to also contact linden labs about this??

    PS coincidental avatar the only photo program I have on my computer is windows paint… will that do the trick?
31. 

    Tenshi Vielle
    

    Jun 24th, 2007
    

    Re: Entire comment by “–Paulie Vavoom/Skye Club Oceania Co-Owner”

    While your offer seems to be, at first, sweet and kind, the underlying message is that it’s simply self-promotion for you. Gag.
32. 

    Naked Kaiser
    

    Jun 25th, 2007
    

    “The claimed earlier business practices of Hunter are no evidence either in this case.”

    Which was clearly stated in my post. Only LL can provide evidence in the case. They will not do so. However, what I am suggesting is that Hunter Noland never ever would pay a substantial amount of 1480 US$ to anyone, no matter the circumstances under which the win occured. Tricked or not.

    “What comes to German courts, what do you know about the application of the law in Germany? Or about anything?”

    Legalwise, Rhonda (under Australian jurisdiction) has traded in game tokens of zero value for an illegal virtual gambling service which is hosted under US jurisdiction. Too many obstacles to file a case against Mr. Noland before a german judge or law enforcement agency. They are still struggling to catch up with legal implications of old-fashioned e-commerce. Virtual commerce is completely unknown to them, ie they don’t have rules to follow, so it doesn’t exist. A case involving game tokens can not be brought to a german court.

    Mr. Noland knows nothing may happen to him. He just has to ride out the matter. Which is true for many shady business types and scammers all across the grid, no matter where they come from in RL.
33. 

    Anonymous
    

    Jun 25th, 2007
    

    YO EVERYBODY- you’re missing the big picture, which is that only an IDIOT puts lots of real money into a stupid scripted object just based on nothing more than a gamble! If you want to gamble, go to a real online casino. It’s your own fault if you get scammed in Second Life where there ARE no regulations or laws or rules. It just shows that you are an ignorant schmuck. And yes, Lindens do need to ban this kind of activity, but it still doesn’t mean that Rhonda is a “victim” of anything other than her own stupidity!
34. 

    anon
    

    Jun 26th, 2007
    

    This is Linden’s response to fraud.

    —————————————————-
    Dear Second Life Resident,
    Your Abuse Report has been investigated and resolved.
    —————————————————–
    Linden Lab cannot verify, enforce, certify, examine, uphold or
    adjudicate any oath, contract, deal, bargain or agreement made by the
    residents of Second Life. This includes the operation, odds and payouts
    of any gambling or “casino” scripts. Please contact the resident with
    whom you have a dispute, and request that they “make good” on the deal.
    While you may have a valid agreement with another person, Linden Lab is
    not a party to and cannot resolve your dispute.
    ——————————————————

    For those that do not understand,

    We, Linden reserve the right to allow fraud on our servers. We Linden take no action and refuse to be forced to protect anyone on our servers.
    We Linden are virtual gods and will not listen to anyone complaining about our service. If you are truly out money, and you have been stolen from, tough. We ended up with your stolen money and we are not giving it back. You do realize this is pyramid no? All money comes to us, but we launder it via all the scammers we harbor. Get with it, if you want
    legal and moral services, go some place else. You do not own anything, we
    do. Take your problems up with the scammers that ripped you off, all we do is harbor them so we get paid.

    We hope you understand, we don’t intend on doing good sound business and
    run our scammers off, we need the money and you’ll just have to suck it up.

    ————————————————————————

    Best,
    indra-abuse@secondlife.com

    Linden Lab
    1100 Sansome Street
    San Francisco, CA 94111
    Phone 415.243.9000
    Fax 415.243.9045
    http://www.secondlife.com
35. 

    anon
    

    Jun 26th, 2007
    

    ” It’s your own fault if you get scammed in Second Life where there ARE no regulations or laws or rules.”

    I’m sorry, but no matter where you go on the internet, there are laws, regulations, and rules that protect. You are misguided.
36. 

    mr.f
    

    Jun 26th, 2007
    

    Fucking deadbeat casino owner should pay his dept like a man. He sure as fuck take the money his casino wins.
37. 

    anon
    

    Jun 27th, 2007
    

    Dear Lindenians,

    Please quit sending Abuse Reports. We recently stated that we should have never called Abuse Reports what we did. We don’t want to hear your garbage. Our own Linden Labs people have stated that indeed, we should have never called abuse reports what we did. Look it up on the web.

    Look, we are in California, US. Our fore fathers killed off the indians to get here. We took their land so we could create virtual land. We are Linden Labs, we are going to dominate virtual land market and we don’t care who gets hurt in the process. Did we mention we are American?

    Sorry, that is the American way. Yes we voted for bush and believe that the US should dominate every land on the planet and every oil reserve that is available. It might take a few years, but we will get it all. That is what we do, we are an American company. If we have to, we will outsource it to other scammers across the globe. All Americans stand behind us.. well, maybe not via our statistics that show what countries are logging into our service, but nevertheless, we stand behind our rights to dominate the web and kill off the indians.

    Look sir, you do realise that our American culture is made up of people who took something that didn’t belong to them? So why should Linden Labs be any different? Give us a break. We allow scammers because we believe we have the right as an American company to provide what we want on our own terms. Most American companies do this until they are caught like Enron.

    Anyhow, You never made it to California… We did. And yes, this says alot Mr. Gateway to the west.

    Land is power. You know it and we know it. Virtual or not, we will drive the indians off the earth for the power we see. We will deliver more land and protect the rights of corporate interests to invest in such at any means.

    We think you need to take a break and think about how America came about in the first place son. Look, this is virtual America we talk about. This is the Gateway to the future. Not the mid-west.

    So, why don’t you just go buy a virtual island and do what everyone else is doing? Create your own scams and send us the money? Look, your American. You can get away with it. We will protect your rights until we go down. So why all the fuss?

    ====
    The above a parody? Not the way I view it.
    ====
38. 

    Azno Simons
    

    Jun 27th, 2007
    

    Response to Skye Club Oceania posting.

    Within this post the writer claims that the casino is a “established, reputable casinos, like Skye Club Oceania”. However as we are operators of a real life web casino (as well as Second Life operations) all operated offshore (British Virgin Islands operations with Canadian customer service) we have to question how such a casino (Skye Club Oceania) can have a web presence hosted by U.S. based GoDaddy which is located within the United States (Arizona). Does this casino operator know something about the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act that we do not know (as well as the rest of the real world casino operators) with regards to operation of an online casino within the United States?

    I would recommend that before Ms.Rhonda Bosen accepts any offer of compensation that she consults legal counsel to ensure that she won’t be in any trouble with the FBI (or any other law enforcement authority) from receiving compensation from a casino that has presence within the United States.

    For more reference refer to the the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act at: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-4411

    Also reference the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act at: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-4777

    Also, for those of you who may question how we can operate within Second Life, effective April 04, 2007 we have taken steps to turn away US based avatar access from our Second Life casino. This is due to the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act as well as tax reporting requirements on winnings in accordance with the Internal Revenue Service. Note our press release: http://palmvegas.com/PalmVegas-Press%20Release.pdf (some may not be able to access due to security controls restricting US access to our web casino domain) or the Reuters interview at: http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/04/05/offshore-casino-turns-away-us-based-avatars/

    In our opinion, this problem of having a casino not pay out (if the are required to) will only draw additional attention to the gaming within Second Life and the huge percentage of those Second Life casino’s that are connected with US based owners.
39. 

    RD
    

    Jul 6th, 2007
    

    skye club oceania is a scam too , not on slots or roulette but on the 5 card trick blackjack , they use a modified full perm script with a routine that allow an alt to click it to set up a 10 times lose when someone betting high (now they will remove it i bet )

    playing high on this too easy blackjack will make them log an avatar that will left click on the blackjack
40. 

    monty
    

    Jul 8th, 2007
    

    I have been ripped of by another poker machine and it did not pay out
    who else has been ripped off and which machine.
41. 

    Annoyed
    

    Jul 24th, 2007
    

    I’m sick griefer theives at the roulette tables at Brussel. They use a giant flat transparent prim that covers the betting table causing gamblers to pay their bets to the griefer rather than the casino. They usually work in groups of 2 or 3 and always appear as women. That’s why I stopped playing roulette in SL. No one stops them, not Linden Labs or the casino.
42. 

    Maria Leveaux
    

    Aug 26th, 2007
    

    Ok, did she HONESTLY think an Unregulated Casino in a virtual world was REALLY going to hand her One Thousand,Six Hundred Crisp New REAL United States Dollars for Winning an On Line Wager?

    Phhht, Good luck with that one hon.

    And Now that On line gambling has been banned in SL her chances of getting the money have dropped from Nil to “When Satan skates to work”.

    Gambling in general isn’t the brightest use of ones time, and money. Gambling with completely Annonymous people on Game machines They designed and scripted is just rediculous. IF i were inclined to lay down more than a Dollar on a lottery ticket, i’d want to see the colour of the other guys Money, and KNOW there was no way for him to Welch.

    P.T. Barnum was Inordinately Conservative in his Estimates when he said there was a Sucker born every Minute.

    Maria.

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