If You’re Going to San Francisco…
by prokofy on 27/06/07 at 2:04 am
By Prokofy Neva, Dept. of Hippy Dippy Trippy Tips on Trips
You might be stuck on your laggy sim, with thousands of inventory items missing or inaccessible, with group IMs frozen, and your build mysteriously destroyed — or out in negative space or up in the air 2500 m2, something that the new wonky, scratchy First Look Voice thingie seems to do to me often. But that’s ok, because you can look up from your toil and trouble, pushing prims in one of SL’s worst business slumps, and know that your Betters are going to a better place. Yes, 8 lucky fanboyz and fangurlz have been selected from across the entire grid (Ok, from a Lindens’ friendship card list but you get the point) to go all-expense-paid to San Francisco, for their own personal Summer of Love, with our favourite fatty smokin’ phat friends, the Lindenz.
Oh, did you forget about the Octocracy? Well, it never went away, although it disappeared from view because the Lindens stopped publishing information about the agenda, the notes — and most important — the participants. Like the leader board that disappeared because the people on it didn’t like the publicity (accountability?), the list of the Lucky 8s is now kept hidden, likely at the request of the people who participate — who don’t want to be branded as part of the Feted Inner Core?
But thanks to our busy investigative reporters and the assiduous works of trusty tipsters, we’re building at least a partial list at the Herald. No, *you* aren’t going to be on the list, because the invitations already went out and it’s convening this Thursday June 28 in SF at Linden Lane in the town of trolleys.
Five of those going include not only the movers and shakers of the SL land biz and stock market world but representatives of the Metaversal Myrmidons and the super lucky recipients of the Orientation newbie stream.
Cory Edo, one of the top designers and builders of the Electric Sheep Company, known for her building and tekkie skills and her very early walk-through of Copybot for the denizens of Second Citizen, has been a staunch defender of her company’s Searchbot, the avatar Grid Shepherd, an invasive robot that spiders the grid, picking up all the information about stuff for sale and feeding it, unasked, to a master database — until you opt out.
Dirk Talamaska, formerly of Anshechung.com, is a land dealer who sells private islands, a member of SL Certification Devs (my God, remember THAT? it didn’t go away!), and maker of Orientation Station, a newbie training center that along with others in a select Linden project, is getting a cut of the raw newbie stream of secondlife.com as their companies’ loss-leader fodder. I argued with him for an hour about the principles of open bidding systems; we even carried the debate into an office hour with Philip Linden and long after, but I failed in getting him to see the benefits of not only having his company be handed newbie customers, but have an open system in a free market so that people could genuinely bid and compete with various innovations and services.
Shaun Altman, owner of Cyberlands, a island selling business, and also scripter of the World Stock Exchange — an outfit that he later cashed out large amounts from, and criticized for engaging in overvaluation of their builds and stock and self-dealing. Shaun still maintains a stock portfolio in WSE.
Huns Valen, a long-time resident and beta-era tester, cited by Philip Linden recently as inventor of an aircraft script that he found invaluable for the grid. Valen was once criticized on the old Linden forums by a number of residents for being photographed together with W-hat griefers in a post grid-crashing victory-dance. Huns continues to back W-hat and does not condemn its griefing members, saying that the whole organization shouldn’t be tarred with the same brush.
Angel Fluffy is a noted BDSM authority and master of the group Capture Roleplay, numbering some 2,000, a roleplay involving the chasing and raping of prey by predators, evidently mainly furries. It’s not likely to be found by the Lindens to be “broadly offensive” as Angel has taken care to keep his Linden connections flowing, alerting the anti-griefer S.L.A.M. group recently that he had a list of the online Lindens and would share it with those he deemed deserving of the privilege. Angel took over the reform of the Feature Voting tool and made a group with only himself as officer, three Lindens, including Jean Linden, and without the right to send notices out. Don’t try to vote “no,” however, as Fluffy opposes the effort some residents have made to convince the Lindens to enable the voting device to vote “no”.
Snapshot baron and Second Citizen maven Cristiano Midnight was invited, but said he had to get his nails done and won’t be going. If anyone has any more names to add — there are three more — you can write me at dyerbrookME@juno.com.
In addition to these residents, I understand some 14 Lindens will be in attendance.
I could start in trying to explain what picture of the grid the Lindens will get from these august personages, but I think my bios have in part done that job for you (you’re welcome to accuse me of subjectivity here at the Always Fairly Unbalanced Herald, and write in your own correctives). More to the point, what do the Lindens want to get across to these Captains of Industry?
While styled as a kind of very feted focus group, the Octocracy is actually as powerless as the Russian second secretary of the Grozny municipal administration. They have a power of sorts — to try to shape opinion, uphold the Tao of Linden and get their networks “on board” with various “projects”. But of course, server-side, they are referred to merely as “customers” if not “the load test”.
I heard some indication of the agenda — but of course none dare leak any documents out of the Lab. In fact, these people might be made to sign NDAs. However, one topic apparently of Linden interest is trying to get the “community” to be more “receptive” to corporations coming into Second Life.
Rather than file the usual b/tarded Griefer U rant, sycophantish fanboyz diatribe, or cynical blast about people who take games too seriously on teh Internets, why don’t readers, in a Terra Nova Terrabyte of 400 words or less, tell these good citizens on their way to CA what message they should deliver to the Lindens?
And let’s call on the Lucky 8 (or even 9?) to step up and tell the rest of the citizenry just what you’re talking to the Lindens about — how about an after-action report?
mootykips
Jun 27th, 2007
I’m in the Feted Inner Core too. Philip comes over to my house on Saturdays and we have a huge barbecue.
Greta Garbo
Jun 27th, 2007
Vyrnox Ming
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jun 27th, 2007
It brings a smile to my face, Prokofy, every time you compare something to Russian politics – or Chechen politics in this case.
That said, a list of online Lindens is easily obtained by anyone at any time through some simple scripts. I’m sure you can get your hands on such a thing, and I would even be willing to provide you with said item.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
Um, DUH. There’s an even simpler way, without any script — just look inside the Concierge group to see which Lindens who are members of the group are online. That’s most pertinent to people who need sim restarts and rescues from your griefing group, v-5/b-tards/Woodbury U Security.
The script purporting to show Lindens online, sold on SLEX and just generally passed around and sold in world relies on the ability to grab their avatar keys, and with new Lindens being laid on all the time, especially as liaisons, it’s not likely to be up to date.
And that’s not the point. The problem here is that Fluffy was feigning to have an exclusive inside dope, with Linden calling cards, or some kind of insider Linden-on-line list,that he was claiming he could “get people in on” if they contacted him. But of course, that’s silly. If he has such a thing, he’s cobbled it together, and isn’t special. If they’ve done anything to make him feel special, they’re to be criticized for doing that when everybody on the grid should have equal access to basic assistance, especially from massive attacks from griefers.
The point is that he claimed to have a special line to the Lindens — and may even have one. I asked the Lindens — they said they didn’t know what I was talking about.
Pirate Cotton
Jun 27th, 2007
Interesting. Two years ago I was flown to GDC to help the Lindens out and to meet the crowd. It was good fun. Those invited tended to be from the wilder, cooler and crazier parts of SL and mostly involved creative types, or people from education or health care. It sounds like LL have given up their interest in great content, and now just want great business. Problem is, land barons and content aggregators don’t make the average Joe Newby want to stay in this mess.
Nacon
Jun 27th, 2007
“Five of those going include not only the movers and shakers of the SL land biz and stock market world…”
Good lord, Prok! I know I said don’t forget your pills but geez…. don’t shove down your whole bottle!
Inigo Chamerberlin
Jun 27th, 2007
Nice shot of Philip on the back of that bike in the movie…
Lewis Nerd
Jun 27th, 2007
I’m still waiting for my invite.
Lewis
Jim Schack
Jun 27th, 2007
Prokofy, why don’t you cry about it?
“EWWWAAHH!!! I wanna go to San Fransisco, ewwah!”
I always feel dumber after reading your posts.
Coincidental Avatar
Jun 27th, 2007
Hopefully there won’t be any griefers, flying penises or something, it’s San Francisco …
Chowderhead Doldrumite
Jun 27th, 2007
You really hate favoritism don’cha Prok? But isn’t evolution a form of favoritism by its very nature? And by complaining about FICs “drinking from the newbie stream” you’ve reduced the philanthropic idea of bringing greater learning and user retention to a greedy, sniveling grab for newbies and their ca$h. The thought that people might be working hard to provide a safe and enjoyable portal into SL with no regard for $ doesn’t seem to have a place in your paranoid perspective. Please try to stretch your imagination enough to see that some people have a giving/teaching spirit guided by the desire to help people – not by how many houses they can rent to clueless newbie victims. With no oversight, you can bet the big casinos and unsightly advertising billboards would be the first things newbies experience here, and who would blame them for high-tailing it outta here like a coyote with a 12 gauge load of rocksalt hot on his heels.
Preying on the “stream of newbies” like bums begging for easy handouts is not the impression new people should see of this place.
Doesn’t matter one bit though – business has been in the toilet the past week and if the little guy ain’t selling, then you can be sure the big-dog corporations are also standing around wondering where the L$s and the LULz are.
Wait. Did I go off topic there? Damnit, sorry. San Francisco is in California and is the home of the Golden Gate Bridge and the Grateful Dead. There, …back on track now.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>You really hate favoritism don’cha Prok? But isn’t evolution a form of favoritism by its very nature?
Absolutely. I oppose this system. An evolution may be something Nature or God set in motion, who knows, but it’s not necessarily something humans should practice on each other. SL is anything but evolutionary; it’s revolutionary and constantly serves up the “ends justify the means” revolutionary rhetoric and is constantly destructive in its methods and goals.
The Lindens should have focus groups inworld, with a much wider variety of people rotating through, and not being paying for trips to SF. They should do it inworld, eat their dogfood, and test their dogfood’s nutrient levels for all those wonderous things they say we can have, like truth serum and Zen insights and stuff.
>And by complaining about FICs “drinking from the newbie stream” you’ve reduced the philanthropic idea of bringing greater learning and user retention to a greedy, sniveling grab for newbies and their ca$h.
Absolutely. Because that’s what the Lindens have reduced it to. Retention is about *their own* bottom line and is about the bottom line of their chosen partners. Azure Islands doesn’t undertake grabbing of a percentage of the newbie stream merely to play Mother Theresa, don’t be silly. The Pond, the Australian portal, isn’t in this merely as some kind of civic projects; they want it to be the go-to passageway to the businesses and connections they help forge.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. It *is* reduced to a greedy and snivelling stream-scoop when the Lindens cut it up in secret, for reasons not clear or demonstrably deserving, and apportion it out to their pals for windfalls — pals who had no orientation infohubs before this exercise *even for their own business*, and hastily built and staffed up just for this occasion to suck up to the Lab.
The Lindens didn’t canvasse the existing newbie helping sims where people truly do work selflessly and cost-free, like New Citizens Corporation, and provide any newbie stream to them.
The obvious — extraordinarily obvious! — solution to the problem of newbie orientation and retention is to *begin with users who already do this and have high traffic*. So they go to NCI and some of the themed communities and the *already-created* user-made infohubs and *provide them with the retention feedback* which they also *make public*. They claim they have to “get started somewhere”? That’s where they should have gotten started, right here at home with “our world/our imagination” — not theirs. Then simultaneously, or in round two of the project, they would add in these regapped businesses but by having an OPEN BID, not going to pals and saying “can you quickly staff up and make a build to fit our needs?” but instead saying “Who has the builds and the staff to meet the need for the newbie stream?” As I noted in my previous article, very long and detailed precisely for this reason of needing to track the public record, the paint wasn’t even dry yet on these infohubs, and the staff AFK or missing, when I went all over them seeking for insight as to why the Lindens picked some of them. It’s clear they just want to promote some businesses they have a mysterious comfort level with, and not others.
Philip claims in his office hour he has only one goal: retaining newbies. OK, then be straight, be honest, and look at the work of those who ALREADY retain newbies and learn HOW they do it — whether the live music crowd, furries, GLTB clubs — whatever. Study the existing good practices, don’t step on them. The half-assed project of the past, where the Lindens took a handful of feted ones from Cubey to Luskwood to some popular club of that era, and had newbies teleport into their laps, wasn’t conducted long enough or coherently enough
I fail to see why SL can’t be like RL or even There.com. You land at the landing station. You see a variety of billboards or portals or notices offering various types of content. You click on them. You arrive at them, where people greet and help you. The portals are rotating ads, paid for, because helping newbies is hard work and cannot be sustained unless combined with business or funded non-profits.
>The thought that people might be working hard to provide a safe and enjoyable portal into SL with no regard for $ doesn’t seem to have a place in your paranoid perspective. Please try to stretch your imagination enough to see that some people have a giving/teaching spirit guided by the desire to help people – not by how many houses they can rent to clueless newbie victims.
Guess what, Einstein, you know how I already know this? Because I *do* it for more hours than you can possibly imagine. I run newbie orientation myself, and have all kinds of subsidies and help for newbies. I simply don’t go around pumping myself as Frieds 2 Da Noobz the way these others do. And your notion that my help to newbies is about renting to them is utterly vicious and uninformed — and I’ve answered this kind of attack on my blog at length.
It comes from a failure to understand that nobody who helps newbs just “as is” can possibly expect any immediate or even long-term profit from it. The sim I run with orientation has shops and rentals, but the newer customers who come for those low-cost rentals don’t come from the infohub, which is NOT how you rationally obtain rental customers, but from targeted advertising in classifieds and search. People just arriving in SL rarely run to rent something, don’t be silly. But Dirk Talamasca and Adam Zaius, by providing slick orientation stations, know that they are going to be able to cream off those few who *do* hit the ground wishing to drop $100 US on an island rental (and there ARE significant though small numbers of such customers) and also just build up general community good will by appearing “philanthropic”.
No doubt they are very sincere in their desire to provide loss leaders and at the same time help the community. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG, AND NOTHING EVIL ABOUT THAT. Why would Dirk or Adam get to do something and have it be sanctified with your blessing, and free from your attacks, but I get whacked with an accusation of being a grubby landlord? My rentals are a fraction of the cost of theirs, and I actually do far more subsidy of newbie rentals than they do ROFL.
My point is that rather than posture and fake this phony altruism, businesses should be forthrightly greeted and encouraged to sell to newbies. They should be able to advertise their services normally like in RL, just as a RL town has ads for hotels or classes or tours or entertainment. The frightful allergenic response to commerce is really out of place.
Philip conceded in his office hour that perhaps they should open up this regapp stuff to anyone who applies and then suggested that if they “perform” with metrics (undisclosed) then they get to stay in the ad pool. I’m wary of his social Darwinistic practices that I don’t get to see the criteria for, and annoying that first he gets lists of his pals all up and running and trafficked and secured in the “ad pool” by a giveaway then says, oh, come and join but only if you meet my stiff performance criteria (which the others did not have to meet).
>With no oversight, you can bet the big casinos and unsightly advertising billboards would be the first things newbies experience here, and who would blame them for high-tailing it outta here like a coyote with a 12 gauge load of rocksalt hot on his heels.
This is the constant stereotype of what ads in the welcome area mean, and it’s hobbling Second Life, and it’s preventing new people from staying, and it’s wrong, wrong, wrong.
Sorry to burst your balloon, but the first thing any newbie discovers as he flies even one foot out of an infohub is a large, ugly unsightly billboard, advertising clubs or tacky rentals. Hello? Where are you? That’s precisely the problem. Ugly 16 m2 extortionist sign greeting and blight abound in SL precisely because it is not rationally regulated and in fact encouraged. The Lindens don’t want to supply the oversight; and that’s why we get this ugliness which in fact works, to siphon off some newbies to the lowest common denominator — but hey, that’s what they came for.
I’d like to see normal market forces work on advertising. But knowing of the horrid allergy the socialists like you and the Lindens have to this, and knowing of your monstrous projections for horrid newbie experiences that newbies ALREADY get once they fly beyond the hubs, I’m for allowing a rotating pool of businesses and funded non-profits from providing ads in the welcome areas. The billboards need not be large and unsightly and need not take people to tacky sex palaces. They can take them to the Shelter or NCI or a live music concert for God’s sake.
Somebody could be making a Live Music Portal with the URL track on the parcel containing rotating samples of concerts in progress right then, with CDs of the musicians and posters that help their sales and recognition, and with information on the fans groups you join and such. The same could be done for other themes like geek talks or RL politics. There tons of things you could do (and I do some of them myself) once you get over this horrid allergenic reaction to having a simple portal in a hub. You put up businesses that can take care of newbies — rentals or clothing — and that means those willing to pay for an ad and you might also have some kind of criteria, i.e. large enough parcel for landing and staffing available.
The biggest problem newbies have is finding a job and finding money. They nearly all arrive with the idea that this is a place to make money in, and probably 75 percent of them don’t want that experience to also be combined with learning hard things like building. Like immigrants coming to NY and having to go into everything from chicken chopping to driving a cab to selling fake designer bags, they need their fellow countrymen who have been here a little longer to just put them on the line, put them to work and get them some pocket money to start with. The person who thought up “business in a box” was brilliant, because he gave newbies just that turnkey cheap operation which they can use mainly to sell to other newbies — the primary thing to stimulate is the newbie-to-newbie economy, which I’ve always done in my own small way by setting aside spaces for all tenants to display their items for free or very low cost.
>Preying on the “stream of newbies” like bums begging for easy handouts is not the impression new people should see of this place.
Your notion that supplying a business or non-profit to the newbie stream is like looking for a handout is simply misguided — and malicious. You’d like to portray me as some evil money-grubbing slumlord, but my customers know otherwise. I don’t see them complaining about their subsidized rentals and businesses. I don’t give away land or vending space for free anymore, except in some limited settings — because I found that in fact what happened, some of the very famous oldbies were the ones coming along themselves sucking up my generosity, to their shame, or maneuvering their alts or friends up to the feed trough, and like much else in SL, it wasn’t the greed of evil landlords you had to worry about, but the greed of those imagining they help newbies.
I find charging even a little bit, like $10 a week in open space or $150 for a house an 150 prims and free vending and events space, helps sort out griefers and loafers from those who need help and can use a boost.
The newbie stream is a public good that should be shared in an open and fair fashion for the good of the society at large.
It should not be carved up and awarded to pets on a list.
The greediness and grubbing is taking place by THAT system, not by the open system I envision. The people who imagine that they are better than others and “deserve” this windfall aren’t demonstrably so, because neither their methods or the criteria is public. It’s a secret handout.
That’s why I say that the bid has to be open, that the ad space has to be rotated through market pricing, that more and more people who actually are willing to go through the time and money expenditure to help the raw newbie stream should be allowed to do so. What’s at stake is the very future of Second Life. I’m just not willing to be casual about that and let insular self-dealing destroy it.
Your fear of MY alleged greedy insular self-dealing — of which you have no proof but merely malicious prejudice — is hobbling you from seeing the larger picture — new customers are precious not for some immediate windfall, though that’s not a negligible concern and shouldn’t be discounted, they are valued for their long-term contribution to the creativity and economy of SL.
Dirk, by posturing on my blog about telling people to come to my rentals if they don’t need a sale, and claiming his orientation is a help for us all isn’t wrong in his theory — that all business helps every business. But he sure as hell is wrong in his practice. If you truly believe that all business helps every business, then OPEN IT UP. Don’t make it “no business but my business” which is what the Lindens, their pets, and their ideological cheerleaders like yourself do, enabling a tiny list of self-important businesses to be awarded newbies, and in fact, in every experiment, fail and fail again to help the Lindens retain.
What’s different with this one is that by abandoning all the Lusks and the clubs and the Shelters and such, the Lindens are making a really nasty and unstated comment: user content doesn’t help draw other user content and help us retain. I don’t think they’ve tested that sufficiently, and the way to test it is with a simple system of rotating ads and also a rotating sample of the newbie drop-off stream (by sequence, not by randomness, another idiocy of the current system).
So they’ve gone to commercial operations with RL luster like Showtime or their trusted millionaire partners like Azure or Dreamland, thinking the others are amateurs and these businesses will make customers stick. Preliminary results indicate that the stickage is greater at these hubs than at Linden land — but hey, that wasn’t a contest. If you merely put one staff person out, unlike the unstaffed welcome areas abandoned by the Lindens, you eliminate the penis and caging factor by about 150 percent and prevent loss right there!
>Doesn’t matter one bit though – business has been in the toilet the past week and if the little guy ain’t selling, then you can be sure the big-dog corporations are also standing around wondering where the L$s and the LULz are.
Yes business is definitely in a slump, and while everybody is telling each other “it’s the summer,” um, the summer is July 4th and the August Europe vacations, and this is way too early to be “summer”.
>Wait. Did I go off topic there? Damnit, sorry. San Francisco is in California and is the home of the Golden Gate Bridge and the Grateful Dead. There, …back on track now.
Your ideological memes and prejudices and hatreds on display here are the greatest hobblers of SL. You’ve exhibited a classic case of every single thing that is in fact crippling the ability for this company to retain customers. It’s not only the nasty and vicious hatred of people who work hard in the land business for not much compensation, it’s the inability to understand what an open playing field is.
Countries that enabled new people to be met by their fellow countrymen with entry-level jobs or businesses, and supplied ready opportunities through an open labour and business market, and enable enterprise to get started without a lot of state intervention are countries that succeed not only in attracting, but keeping immigrants. Countries that fear commerce, hate those in business, even murdering them, overregulate the labour and business market, and run things by central planning don’t succeed even at keeping their authoritarian projects going.
Freddy
Jun 27th, 2007
Lots of people turn the offer to go down. Apparently all of the Tableau group were invited and never went, except Cory Edo.
shockwave yareach
Jun 27th, 2007
SL would not be able to emulate how the furries and the SciFi fandoms assist and guide their members when they arrive inworld. The fandoms have a sense of community outside of the game. Furries and SF people coming into SL are already part of a group before they even log in — all we do is get them operating well in the game with basic skillsets and inventory. Newcomers get some lessons, clothing, landmarks, and lots of parttime mentors. We do this because these are our fellows and friends, outside of SL as well as inside.
I don’t see how you can emulate that with a general population.
Yo Brewster
Jun 27th, 2007
It’s not all as bad you think Prok – at least it gives some people the opportunity to share with Linden Lab how they feel the grid should evolve. Why would it matter to you whether or not these people get invited? It’s not like you’re paying for it! You really think these select few people have such a different view on Second Life in comparison with everybody else? True in a way they are different as most of the people selected are in one way or another succesfull with their efforts in second life but since they’re so involved with Second Life, they do also see the things that need improvement. The thing is, Linden Lab can’t invite everybody so I certainly apploud their efforts here. I’m glad they’re willing to listen to us, now they just need to follow through with the things that are actually being discussed
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>It’s not all as bad you think Prok – at least it gives some people the opportunity to share with Linden Lab how they feel the grid should evolve.
It’s an evil system of corporativist favouritism and should be discontinued. If the Lindens cannot be transparent about the criteria for selection and offer a hell of a lot more rotation and variety — at the very least — they should discontinue it. It should be accompanied by far more effective and cost-free meetings inworld.
>Why would it matter to you whether or not these people get invited? It’s not like you’re paying for it! You really think these select few people have such a different view on Second Life in comparison with everybody else?
Because I care about the present and future of Second Life, and it will fail if it keeps turning in on itself, shutting out variety, and preaching to the converted.
>True in a way they are different as most of the people selected are in one way or another succesfull with their efforts in second life but since they’re so involved with Second Life, they do also see the things that need improvement.
They invite people not to hear what they think, but to evangelize to them as developers to get them imbued with the party line to go out and preach some more and gain whatever handfalls or windfalls are to be gained. Lindens, with this system, don’t seem to want to hear about the failures; they want to consolidate their few successes with fervent loyalists. It’s not how you grow a country, let alone a company.
>The thing is, Linden Lab can’t invite everybody so I certainly apploud their efforts here. I’m glad they’re willing to listen to us, now they just need to follow through with the things that are actually being discussed
They could sure as hell diversify it, as what they have here is everything from A to…A and a half. Let them invite a camp-chair queen. Let them invite a sex club owner besides their precious Stroker. Let them talk to a girl who runs 50 rentals on a sim. When they get all those people and see they are not in the class — or sometimes race — that they and their own kind are in, they might learn something from these people who make up the masses of their customers, who are so out of sync with their feted elite developers.
I suspect they just hope to peel off those kinds of mass customers, however, and make the platform discussions only open to their select developer friends, ignore other kinds of feedback as not sufficiently expert or coherent, and let somebody else take care of the masses.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>Newcomers get some lessons, clothing, landmarks, and lots of parttime mentors. We do this because these are our fellows and friends, outside of SL as well as inside.
I don’t see how you can emulate that with a general population.
Sure you can. You can’t give that special furry closeness of pre-fabricated networks, but obviously with things like the L word the Lindens hope to read themed communities. They just dumped furries because furries and their animal sex is what is giving SL a bad name.
Anyone who comes to SL wants a virtual life. We all have that much in common. It’s a matter of teaching how to move, search, and secure.
Artemis Fate
Jun 27th, 2007
“You really hate favoritism don’cha Prok?”
Prokofy doesn’t hate favoritism, he LOVES favoritism. What he hates is favoritism for OTHERS, favoritism for himself is a-okay though. I guarentee you were Prok invited (and reasonably who would want to invite this little screaming paranoid bag of vitriol and hate?), we wouldn’t have heard a word about how this is some FIC agenda.
Chris Senior
Jun 27th, 2007
That YouTube at the end makes me want to kick some hippies in the ribs with my steel toed workboots.
I hate hippies. They all smell funny.
Reality
Jun 27th, 2007
I’m sorry, ‘evil’? a practice by a corporation concerning input?
… Excuse me but what fucking planet do you live on Prokofy?
There is no ‘evil’ here, except in your mind. No Lucifer, no demons, nothing even close to ‘evil’ = nice try on attempting to be dramatic.
Reality
Jun 27th, 2007
“Anyone who comes to SL wants a virtual life. We all have that much in common.”
Hmm, sorry no, wrong. Not everyone comes looking for a ‘virtual’ life dearie. even a single person who comes to Second Life – count me as one by the by – tears that little statement of yours to shreds.
Next time stick to the realm of reality dearie – and actually get off your ass and try to find research to back up your opinions.
Cocoanut Koala
Jun 27th, 2007
1. Ah, yes, the Chosen Ones Program.
Otherwise known as “Second Life Views.”
Well, oddly, Prok, the people getting singled out for special perks, privileges and opportunities somehow never DO see any problem with that system, do they?
2. Of COURSE being selected as a new orientation site is a huge business coup for one’s business. Any but the most addled koolaid drinker can see that.
Which brings up another point: Just how insidious the koolaid really is, when people totally lose all rational sense of any sort of justice, democracy, or even decent focus-group-running, and give themselves over entirely to the feudal system of the King and His Court, and the Chosen Few.
The notion that the Lindens always know ahead of time exactly who can do what best and whose opinion will be best (and then hands them the opportunities) is so – STIFLING – so closed-off and entropic in terms of new talent and viewpoints – that I just can’t believe they persist in doing things that way.
However, it IS the best way to keep dividing the pie entirely among themselves and their pals, isn’t it.
And anyone who hopes to BE a pal and get a slice of that pie better keep nodding and saying, “Yes, indeedy, it’s a wonderful system!”
3. LL always funnels everything to their pals and their pets; they always have, and they always will.
Until, perhaps, the rest of the world realizes how corrupt SL really is.
4. “You really think these select few people have such a different view on Second Life in comparison with everybody else?”
Yes.
coco
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>Prokofy doesn’t hate favoritism, he LOVES favoritism. What he hates is favoritism for OTHERS, favoritism for himself is a-okay though. I guarentee you were Prok invited (and reasonably who would want to invite this little screaming paranoid bag of vitriol and hate?), we wouldn’t have heard a word about how this is some FIC agenda
Are you male or female in RL? I thought we were done with this sort of thing.
From the moment the Lindens first announced this, I was the first to post on Robin’s blog that I thought the system was corrupt, and yes — evil — because it incorporates a really corrupt and insidious practice early on into the formation of the Metaverse and that has profound implications.
You can find the past discussions here:
http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/08/01/slviews-2-and-slcc/
The essence of this program says “We repudiate democracy, voting, a free media and even normal focus group practices with larger and more frequent groups, and we substitute it with the Chosen Ones to whom we evangelize and who are admitted into our cult.” It’s an awful way to run anything, especially a project of this magnitude. There’s no demonstrable reason for this.
And I made it clear from my very first post that I never would take part, even if asked, and will never take part, if asked, because I believe it’s a corrupt, misguided, and damaging system.
I’m not a screaming bag of vitriol. I’m a voice in the wilderness of stifling oppression crying out for justice. Big difference. You can’t see it, because you’re in on it now too.
So much for your little outburst, hon. Go back to you cave.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
Reality, when you’re ready to supply a) a SL name and/or b) a robust description of just what it is you DO in RL and SL, even in generic terms and c) explain why you even bother to log on to SL given your profound and deep-rooted vicious hatred of the simulated life, and your tragically unshakeable conviction that you are “in touch with reality”, then I’ll consider continuing to debate you.
Reality
Jun 27th, 2007
Prokofy, when you:
1. Drop this fixation you have with Second Life user names
2. Realize that what a person does with their time is their business
3. Supply any and all proof asked of you in prior discussions
4. Drop the pretense you have regarding ‘accountability’ (sorry dearie, your Avatar is not you)
5. Act like an actual member of the Human Race
I might consider giving you a name you can contact and use as a messenger (sorry dearie, I decide who gets to harass me, not you).
Until then please feel free to use the same bullshit tactic over and over again.
Welcome to the Internet – Where the Message matters more than the Messenger.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>Prokofy, when you:
Reality, when you’re ready to supply a) a SL name and/or b) a robust description of just what it is you DO in RL and SL, even in generic terms and c) explain why you even bother to log on to SL given your profound and deep-rooted vicious hatred of the simulated life, and your tragically unshakeable conviction that you are “in touch with reality”, then I’ll consider continuing to debate you.
Reality
Jun 27th, 2007
Oh and dearie? You do not get to call the shots here – for that matter you do not get to decide how a person posts either dearie.
As a matter of fact dearie, the only control you have here is over yourself.
Reality
Jun 27th, 2007
Hmm, seems I’ll have to repeat myself here – ah well, maybe with enough repetition you’ll get it through that thick skull of yours dearie.
”
Prokofy, when you:
1. Drop this fixation you have with Second Life user names
2. Realize that what a person does with their time is their business
3. Supply any and all proof asked of you in prior discussions
4. Drop the pretense you have regarding ‘accountability’ (sorry dearie, your Avatar is not you)
5. Act like an actual member of the Human Race
I might consider giving you a name you can contact and use as a messenger (sorry dearie, I decide who gets to harass me, not you).
Until then please feel free to use the same bullshit tactic over and over again.
Welcome to the Internet – Where the Message matters more than the Messenger.”
Oh yes …
”
Oh and dearie? You do not get to call the shots here – for that matter you do not get to decide how a person posts either dearie.
As a matter of fact dearie, the only control you have here is over yourself.”
see dearie – you don’t get to decide jack shit here – don’t want to respond? Then don’t – plain and simple.
Tenshi Vielle
Jun 27th, 2007
Uh, are these people going to enjoy the fact that you “outed” them?
Csven Concord
Jun 27th, 2007
@ reality who said: “Not everyone comes looking for a ‘virtual’ life dearie. even a single person who comes to Second Life – count me…”
Include me, of course.
-
@ Artemis
It does seem as if favoritism knows no bounds. e.g.:
“After a Linden staffer force-teleported Prokofy Neva into the event” – http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/06/sl-4th-birthday.html
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
Nice try there, fuck-face.
>@ reality who said: “Not everyone comes looking for a ‘virtual’ life dearie. even a single person who comes to Second Life – count me…”
>Include me, of course.
The greatest illusion is to believe that in a virtual world, you are the one who is real.
>@ Artemis
>It does seem as if favoritism knows no bounds. e.g.:
>”After a Linden staffer force-teleported Prokofy Neva into the event” – http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/06/sl-4th-birthday.html
That Linden force-ported me there merely as a prank, and AFTER it was already clear that Philip couldn’t get logged back in and wouldn’t be speaking. Duh!
Csven Concord
Jun 27th, 2007
“Nice try there, fuck-face.”
As classy as we’ve all come to expect.
-
“That Linden force-ported me there merely as a prank, and AFTER it was already clear that Philip couldn’t get logged back in and wouldn’t be speaking. Duh!”
I don’t believe you. I believe you pulled some strings and got in when others couldn’t. And because I believe it, by your logic, then it’s a Fact, isn’t it?
Fact: Prokofy Neva gets preferential treatment from Linden Lab.
-
I’m going to enjoy using your standard for making factual statements and believe everyone should join in.
Per Prokofy Neva: “So if I believe it’s true, and it’s a truth *for me*, I declare it as a fact.”
So, what do you all believe about Prokofy. You’ve been holding back because for *some* reason you thought the burden of proof was on you, but according to the self-proclaimed “Infamous Antagonist of Second Life”, that’s all wrong.
“When I have come to the conclusion that I believe something, I’ve already met the burden of proof.”
So here you go: Declare your Facts about Prokofy Neva. No doubt she’ll appreciate knowing that people are adopting her (screwy) way of thinking.
Artemis Fate
Jun 27th, 2007
“Are you male or female in RL? I thought we were done with this sort of thing.”
This right here is a wonderful example of how you think. You start off immediately with this question, this same very question that you have, at great length, complained, bitched, insulted, and whined whenever it or some form of it is applied or misapplied to you. And yet, you don’t seem to find it hypocritical to use it on others in the same exact way.
“From the moment the Lindens first announced this, I was the first to post on Robin’s blog that I thought the system was corrupt, and yes — evil — because it incorporates a really corrupt and insidious practice early on into the formation of the Metaverse and that has profound implications.”
Yeah, i’m sure all the little kids who didn’t invite you to their birthday parties were corrupt and evil too, better go track them down and yell at them at great length.
No one is evil, there’s been close, but some minor virtual world company that, like all other corporations, have valued customers, are not even close to being remotely evil. You cheapen the entire CONCEPT by so casually misapplying it to anyone who doesn’t immediately fall to their knees in your praises.
“The essence of this program says “We repudiate democracy, voting, a free media and even normal focus group practices with larger and more frequent groups, and we substitute it with the Chosen Ones to whom we evangelize and who are admitted into our cult.” It’s an awful way to run anything, especially a project of this magnitude. There’s no demonstrable reason for this.”
Ah there’s that good ol’ hyper capitalist thinking, yep. No capitalist institutions do that kind of stuff ever, entrusting opinions and ideals to a small board of people, you’re right, you know what there should be some kind of …commune, of people to have opinions, and everyone gets an equal right at saying their piece! And no more of that elitist classes, it’ll all be normal people! Hmmm, this does sound a bit familiar….but, no matter. I’m glad we have some pro-capitalist anti-communist thinkers like you to protect us, Prokofy!
“And I made it clear from my very first post that I never would take part, even if asked, and will never take part, if asked, because I believe it’s a corrupt, misguided, and damaging system.”
You’ve also made it clear that you hate people who scope into others real life for the purpose of debate and that you hate communist ideals, and yet in this very post, you’ve hypocritically used both for your own ends.
You’re a liar and a hypocrite Prokofy. You would jump at the chance to lick Philip’s balls if he let you have power over Second Life.
“I’m not a screaming bag of vitriol. I’m a voice in the wilderness of stifling oppression crying out for justice. Big difference. You can’t see it, because you’re in on it now too.”
Right right, sorry, I forgot about all that “justice” you’ve been doing. Funny thing, all this time of you carrying-on selflessly for the prosperity and well-being of the common people (which I must say, so far the common-people seem to be synonymous with yourself), all this time you’ve been fighting for “justice” of the masses, the masses seem to think you’re a hateful loon, and you have only one follower. Even Charles Manson had more followers than you.
Ever stop and think after saying stuff like “No! I am a freedom fighter of justice and truth! You just can’t see that because YOU’RE IN ON IT! YOU’RE ONE OF THEEEEM!!! THEY’RE ALL OUT TO GET ME!!!” that you might just be a weeeeeee bit crazy? Course not. Crazy people never think they’re crazy. But look at how many people have told you in reply that you’re crazy. That should be somewhat of an indication there, but no, you just toke it off as “They’re one of them! One of the OPPRESSORS!” and keep on screaming and shouting don’t you? No wonder you think there’s so many of the oppressors out there, if everyone who thinks you’re a total loon is classified as part of a vast conspiracy against you.
Tenshi Vielle
Jun 27th, 2007
Woweee, fuckface! We’re really into reporting tonight, folks! Think she’s out to get Ann Coultier’s job?
( Sounds like… http://hardblogger.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/26/236510.aspx )
whateva
Jun 27th, 2007
ya know its funny to see Dirk on that list – those who know him and have dealt with him in the past know two things about him i’m sure:
1. he kisses LL ass
2. He is bipolar
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>As classy as we’ve all come to expect.
Indeed, fitting for someone who can promote virtual child molestation, and then falsely accuse a neighbour of having a “kiddiepark” on Flickr. Yuh!
>I don’t believe you. I believe you pulled some strings and got in when others couldn’t. And because I believe it, by your logic, then it’s a Fact, isn’t it?
>Fact: Prokofy Neva gets preferential treatment from Linden Lab.
Well, it’s easy to check *yawn*. Just call up Spike Linden. He will tell you that I was with a bunch of people, with my nose pressed up to the glass just as Pixeleen wrote, and I saw all these Linden staffers, so I IM’d him and said, um, what about family hold-back? And after a while, suddenly, he tp’d me in there, but then I crashed anyway possibly because it was a TP into an already-full sim. He was laughing. Then I came back, only to hear the announcement from Iridium that Philip himself couldn’t get on. So check the facts, and find them.
Anyone is welcome to write anything they wish, and in bad faith, and in vicious speciousness, like C. Sven Johnson, make false claims — he’s a obsessive about doing stuff like that as we all know. But they’re all pretty transparently bogus *shrugs*.
Go for it big guy. And I'm going to state as fact that you have no life, no job, and no motivation to live, either.
>Per Prokofy Neva: “So if I believe it’s true, and it’s a truth *for me*, I declare it as a fact.”
FACT.
>So, what do you all believe about Prokofy. You’ve been holding back because for *some* reason you thought the burden of proof was on you, but according to the self-proclaimed “Infamous Antagonist of Second Life”, that’s all wrong.
“When I have come to the conclusion that I believe something, I’ve already met the burden of proof.”
Absolutely. I meet it. Who else will meet it for me? I can’t ask someone else to do it — that’s against the Wikipedia Burden of Proof page rules! I can’t ask C. Sven Johnson, as he is a consummate liar and prevaricator.
>So here you go: Declare your Facts about Prokofy Neva. No doubt she’ll appreciate knowing that people are adopting her (screwy) way of thinking.
The Herald commenters are way ahead of C. Sven Johnson with this game, they’ve been playing it for years.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>ya know its funny to see Dirk on that list – those who know him and have dealt with him in the past know two things about him i’m sure:
>1. he kisses LL ass
>2. He is bipolar
That seems very mean-spirited. Especially coming from an anonymous asstard like yourself? Hello?
Well, in defense of Dirk, while I had him as a customer service agent in Ansheland, he was always prompt, curteous, funny, and helpful.
I never saw him indicate bipolar, but then, most people seem bipolar in the virtual soup at one time or another.
Internet psychiatry is really a discredited pseudo-science.
I disagree very strongly with his take on things, but I don’t think he’s sucking up to the Lindens per se. I think he just really fervently believes in what he’s doing and it fits with their thing, that’s all. It’s a shame that the world becomes such a small puddle in that way, but there you have it.
Csven Concord
Jun 27th, 2007
@Artemis
If you *believe* someone is crazy, feel free to state it as a Fact, because Prokofy says:
“That’s what is needed in revolutionary times, and what is required for an open society.” – http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/06/terra-antiqua.html#comment-74174600
Do your duty.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
>This right here is a wonderful example of how you think. You start off immediately with this question, this same very question that you have, at great length, complained, bitched, insulted, and whined whenever it or some form of it is applied or misapplied to you. And yet, you don’t seem to find it hypocritical to use it on others in the same exact way.
It’s not “immediate,” and you know full well that I asked this question like 90 days ago after you had a particularly nasty jag on here harassing and pilloring me, and I felt it was time. In my considerable practice on blogs, I keep finding a very funny pattern. And that is that gay males and transgendered males are the nastiest, most vicious, and hideous to me. So, I thought I’d test my science here, given that I do try to find out the answers to questions before I declare them as “facts”.
>No one is evil, there’s been close, but some minor virtual world company that, like all other corporations, have valued customers, are not even close to being remotely evil. You cheapen the entire CONCEPT by so casually misapplying it to anyone who doesn’t immediately fall to their knees in your praises.
No, it’s important to call evil in its cradle. Everybody regretted this later with Bolshevism, for example. LL isn’t minor; SL is big.
>Ah there’s that good ol’ hyper capitalist thinking, yep. No capitalist institutions do that kind of stuff ever, entrusting opinions and ideals to a small board of people, you’re right, you know what there should be some kind of …commune, of people to have opinions, and everyone gets an equal right at saying their piece! And no more of that elitist classes, it’ll all be normal people! Hmmm, this does sound a bit familiar….but, no matter. I’m glad we have some pro-capitalist anti-communist thinkers like you to protect us, Prokofy!
Yep, it’s a healthy correct. It’s especially health to point out that this rendition of what I supposedly believe is just your silly uninformed take on things. Corporations, with their closed and elitist boards (who pay for stuff) rule countries and the world. But the plurality of many of them, and their competition, makes for more freedoms. And countries have democracy that does NOT work this way. I’m not going to go around like the Metaverse Mappers and declare America a “partial democracy,” when I know what that REALLY is like.
>You’ve also made it clear that you hate people who scope into others real life for the purpose of debate and that you hate communist ideals, and yet in this very post, you’ve hypocritically used both for your own ends.
Like I said, when I look at the dates, and I see this little vicious asstard like you has been harassing me on the comments for two years, I suddenly, to my surprise, think, wow, time to ask that question. So you are a special, special case. Welcome to the Prokofy Neva Exceptionality Awards.
>You’re a liar and a hypocrite Prokofy. You would jump at the chance to lick Philip’s balls if he let you have power over Second Life.
No thanks. On either proposition.
>Right right, sorry, I forgot about all that “justice” you’ve been doing. Funny thing, all this time of you carrying-on selflessly for the prosperity and well-being of the common people (which I must say, so far the common-people seem to be synonymous with yourself), all this time you’ve been fighting for “justice” of the masses, the masses seem to think you’re a hateful loon, and you have only one follower. Even Charles Manson had more followers than you.
Oh, I have considerably more, but i’m not looking for followers. I don’t take the assessment of a comments loon like yourself, either.
>Ever stop and think after saying stuff like “No! I am a freedom fighter of justice and truth! You just can’t see that because YOU’RE IN ON IT! YOU’RE ONE OF THEEEEM!!! THEY’RE ALL OUT TO GET ME!!!” that you might just be a weeeeeee bit crazy?
Yes. We’re tiny. We’re tuney. We’re all a little loony.
>Course not. Crazy people never think they’re crazy. But look at how many people have told you in reply that you’re crazy. That should be somewhat of an indication there, but no, you just toke it off as “They’re one of them! One of the OPPRESSORS!” and keep on screaming and shouting don’t you? No wonder you think there’s so many of the oppressors out there, if everyone who thinks you’re a total loon is classified as part of a vast conspiracy against you.
Like William Burroughs used to say, “Paranoia is having all the facts.”
Tenshi Vielle
Jun 27th, 2007
Oh, for cripe’s sakes. All of you lay off. Stop licking your wounds – no, you didn’t get invited. Get over it.
Csven Concord
Jun 27th, 2007
“Indeed, fitting for someone who can promote virtual child molestation, and then falsely accuse a neighbour of having a “kiddiepark” on Flickr. Yuh!”
Actually, I’ve never “promoted” any such thing and never “accused” anyone, but we all know your game now: if someone believes something is true, state it as fact even if there is no evidence.
****Fact: Prokofy Neva harbors and protects Ravenglass customers and their acquaintances who are pedophiles.
Substantiation: Prokofy claims seeing real child pornography inside SL but admits not reporting it to the real life authorities.
-
“So check the facts, and find them.”
I don’t have to check the “facts” anymore than you do.
-
“Anyone is welcome to write anything they wish, and in bad faith, and in vicious speciousness, like C. Sven Johnson, make false claims — he’s a obsessive about doing stuff like that as we all know. But they’re all pretty transparently bogus *shrugs*.”
Or like Catherine A. Fitzpatrick. She’s BEYOND obsessive as we all know. *shrugs*
-
By the way, I’ve never used Prokofy’s RL name on this blog, while she used it herself – http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/03/signextortionis.html#comment-64467390 – “Google me, David. My name in RL is Catherine A. Fitzpatrick.”
I thought there was a policy here about using RL names. I once used Catherine Fitzgerald, but that’s not her real name, is it?
So why does Catherine continue to try to drag my real name into comments when I don’t?
I know why – http://secondperspective.blogspot.com/2007/06/terra-nova-aftermath.html
No big deal, Catherine. I fully intend to continue linking your fake identities with the real person. However, I’ll only match you comment for comment on this blog though, since there is *supposedly* a policy against that here.
-
“I can’t ask C. Sven Johnson, as he is a consummate liar and prevaricator.”
Which is something Catherine A. Fitzpatrick *believes* in that paranoid and delusional mind of hers. Fair enough. We’re playing by Belief=Fact rules in Prokofy’s Kiddie Land.
-
***Fact: Prokofy Neva has a male alt in SL that enjoys rape and torture scenarios in which Prok/alt repeatedly screams, “This is for you, Vladimir Putin!”
Substantiation: …pffft… Prok knows substantiation is for losers.
-
I look forward to seeing some more “facts”.
Anonymous
Jun 27th, 2007
Oh for GOD’S SAKE.
I had a post to comment, but then I see more of Cven’s obsession!
You’re acting practically like a stalker!
coco
Prokofy Neva
Jun 28th, 2007
Just as I thought, the participants in what is now SL Views 5 have been asked to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA). Whoops! Won’t be hearing anything from them now!
Kryss Wanweird
Jun 28th, 2007
Prokofy and Csven:
How about taking this imbloglio to the boxing ring?
It’s about time to see some blood.
Fight! Fight! Fight!
Dusk
Jun 28th, 2007
The great irony in all of this is when it is finally going to come out that Reality is, infact, a Linden.
Nacon
Jun 28th, 2007
“So why does Catherine continue to try to drag my real name into comments when I don’t?”
Hahahaha, she also dragged my SL’s first name into comment on the Herald (not that I really care anyway) when I had her under pressure of denial and idiotiation (yeah, a new word).
She just want to bust someone’s chop and personally to outward people from messing with her. Anyway, I’m sure people are going to be happier to report to law officers about child porn and someone’s personal info invasions issues along with links to most of her posts and comments.
(Although, I wouldn’t be surprised if they won’t do anything about it. Not unless if someone appointed with a lawyer would be a encouragement.)
Prok Said “Yes. We’re tiny. We’re tuney. We’re all a little loony.”
And a good one for court report.
That should be a nice quote for some time.
Reality
Jun 28th, 2007
“The great irony in all of this is when it is finally going to come out that Reality is, infact, a Linden.”
dusk, if I were a Linden, a lot of people would no longer be in Second Life.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 28th, 2007
I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in any “RP wrestling” with the creepy stalker C. Sven, who is completely unhinged. And to do so would only fuel the false notion of moral equivalency. His disgraceful behaviour just discredits him with potential employers or colleagues, so that’s fine, and it creates fodder for a potential lawsuit — so it’s all good.
Um, dragging an SL name into a discussion isn’t at all like dragging a RL name, Nacon, but really, the reference to your SL name was long overdue, given your constant malicious trolling roll here. It’s good for people to be able to read the profiles of characters and understand what they’re dealing with, and avoid cooperation and even undertake any boycotts or bans needed.
The rest of your comment isn’t coherent. It’s not clear who you want to be reporting on whom, but it exposes your police-state mentality nicely, nontheless.
Csven Concord
Jun 28th, 2007
@Coco
Last I checked, I was replying to reality and Artemis with relevant and appropriate responses. And as the author of this article appeared to *also* receive special Linden attention, I thought it appropriate to quote another SLH article indicating some level of hypocrisy.
Is there something inappropriate in doing that? Does it warrant a vulgar response from Prokofy? an attack on me? *obsessively* dragging my RL name into yet another spewfest?
Is that the sort of thing you endorse, Coco? Is condoning such behavior indicative of your judgment? of you as a person?
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jun 28th, 2007
“your griefing group, v-5/b-tards/Woodbury U Security”
Woodbury U security? How dare you.
We have been working damn hard to keep Woodbury clean, and guess what? We have no more luck than any other sim owners do. If you’re griefed by someone in the Woodbury group, REPORT IT TO US.
I’ve heard lots of whining that we’re all greifers, but I’ve yet to receive a single complaint about a specific member.