Interview With Woodbury University’s Edward Clift
by Pixeleen Mistral on 03/07/07 at 8:39 am
“Universities should be made aware that Linden Labs maintains global surveillance on all the activities of their student members and monitors them both on campus and off-site” – Edward Clift
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
Over the last two days, I conducted an interview with Dr. Edward Clift via e-mail, seeking his opinion on the Linden Lab deletion of Woodbury University island from the Second Life metaverse.
I will give Dr. Clift points for affecting a certain style – his Second Life avatar goes by the name MC Fizgig. In real life he is the Deputy Director, School of Media, Culture, & Design and Chair & Associate Professor, Dept. of Communication at Woodbury University, so we can assume a certain level of media-savvy, and perhaps an interest in those that hack the media to advance their own meta-messages – such as the goons and griefers. Here is a transcript of our conversation
pixeleen mistral: Did you pre-pay for the use of the Second Life island? Has Linden Lab refunded the money?
Edward Clift:We did pre-pay for the first six months of the island and have not received a refund.
pixeleen mistral: Do you plan to fight the Woodbury University sim closure?
Edward Clift: Our plan is to fight the Woodbury University closure by a) appealing to Linden Labs and b) speaking out on behalf of academic freedom.
pixeleen mistral: Apparently, Linden Lab felt that there were problems with the activities taking place in the region and with Terms Of Service violations by troublemakers. Were you aware of any of these sorts of problems?
Edward Clift: Woodbury University is a minority-serving institution whose students are often relegated to the margins or unjustly castigated as troublemakers. The fact that Linden Labs waves Terms of Service violations around with no details or supporting evidence reminds me of the Salem Witch Hunt Trials. If people come to an educational island, they seem to say, then we know you are guilty! Let’s burn you at the stake! Look, one of the 11,000 daily visitors wrote a nasty script… Let’s turn their island to grey goo! The truth is we worked diligently to institute a security force including members of the Justice League in an effort to keep problems in check. There was never any communication from Linden until the disconnection as to whether they thought we were doing a good job or not and certainly no chance to take corrective measures in any kind of cooperative fashion.
pixeleen mistral: any other comments?
Edward Clift: The faculty here believes in its students and the positive differences they can make in society. I’m not going to turn away students because they don’t meet Linden Lab’s dress code or because they speak with a Spanish rather than English accent. More importantly, I’m not going to let Linden Labs dictate how students should be educated or what they should be allowed to know. The destruction of the Woodbury 2.0 campus is, in my view, an egregious shot across the bow of academia. All institutions of higher education are now put on notice that they better not do anything too ambitious or “enlightening” unless they want to risk being shunned and eventually expelled from the Holy Grid.
Universities should be made aware that Linden Labs maintains global surveillance on all the activities of their student members and monitors them both on campus and off-site. You will never see this tracking data but you will be held accountable for everything they say or do. Monitors at Linden Labs, by the way, will draw their own conclusions as to the meaning of any speech artifacts, scripts, or student activities. Power over the grid and possession of the surveillance tapes automatically makes them right and it is nearly impossible to dispute incorrect or arbitrary determinations. Meanwhile, the venture capitalists behind SL sit on their yachts off the coast of Panama enjoying the spectacle of hapless academics begging not to be expelled (so much for tenure!).
I urged my student group to engage the primum materium of SL and not simply recreate the traditional ivy-covered buildings and chalkboard lecture hall classroom found elsewhere. The invisible “matter” of SL is the creation and interaction of alters and apparently we were the first to study and creatively experiment with these social relationships in an educational setting. Such an approach, as we have seen, can potentially antagonize the owners of a media channel seeking to naturalize its own operations. The Terms of Service agreement used to vaporize our campus is a distraction designed to hide the insufficiency of the technical architecture of Second Life itself. Isn’t it time to stop blaming the customer?
pixeleen mistral: Were you aware that other members of the “security force” are alleged members of some well known trouble-making groups in Second Life?
Edward Clift: There is no way to know whether someone is a member of one of these trouble-making groups until they demonstrate it in some way. The “security force” actually became our “road crew” and was responsible for building features of the campus. They built a stunning campus in a matter of weeks. About 10% of our “road crew” was banned when it was discovered they were members of a trouble-making organization known as p/n. We did not tolerate, support, or condone p/n on our campus and were, in fact, attacked at one point by this group for our “zero-tolerance” policy. A second “secret service” team was constructed to monitor SIM use and maintain order on a nearly 24/7 basis. The members of this team were drawn from recognized security personnel in the world including the JLU and a variety of private islands.
pixeleen mistral: So you were not contacted at all after the initial warnings in mid-april?
Edward Clift: That is correct. The only other contact was a telephone message I received in late April from Robin or Nicole Linden reiterating their threat to discontinue the island. No action was taken, however, and a bill was sent to us shortly thereafter so I assumed everything was running smoothly again.
pixeleen mistral: How would you respond to the second life residents that say Woodbury acted as a rallying point for gangs of troublemakers? Do you feel you have a
responsibility to the SL society as a whole to police your sim?
Edward Clift: I think people may be misinterpreting the events based on the hyperactive spin machine created by certain reporters and residents with vested interests or connections to the Lindens. We take very seriously our responsibility to police the SIM and instituted every reasonable security measure we could without taking the island completely private.
it is unreasonable to invite universities into the world and then ask them to stop acting like a university
pixeleen mistral: So your concern here is the lack of due process and a clear appeals process?
Edward Clift: To say the least!
pixeleen mistral: Assuming that immersive social spaces are a new media and a place where many people will spend significant time and energy, do you see any alternatives to Second Life? What would you hope for from a metaverse service provider?
Edward Clift: I think it is unreasonable to invite universities into the world and then ask them to stop acting like a university. I am deeply repulsed by the eagerness of otherwise smart, well-intentioned people to try to solve all the underlying tensions of SL by banning residents or entire islands at the drop of the dime. This strategy needs to stop at the doors of academe whose whole existence is founded on the idea of educating others (presumed a priori to be lacking in the knowledge they seek) and exploring new ideas together in the open communication forum known as the classroom.
We created a living campus in Second Life where people of all stripes got together, shared ideas, and learned from each other. An art gallery had just been built that was going to house a student show on homelessness in LA and powerpoint lectures on Darfur were planned. Metaverses are a burgeoning phenomenon, and rightly so, but their controllers will need to assume a more relaxed stance before users give them full credibility. I see them in the future functioning much more like a utility or internet hosting company as more people become accustomed to living out their fantasies– and realities– in these worlds.
mootykips
Jul 5th, 2007
Alyx; Woodbury is the Iraq of Second Life. There were no terrorists in there in the first place, because it would be stupid to set up under a government that thinks terrorists are a major threat, but now that you destabilize it, more join their ranks.
meanwhile, me and SN4X15 are having a beer in Tora Bora. people here are so locked into the SL mindset that they think SL is so important we need to meet in it and if Woodbury is gone omgwtf what r we gona do lolz?
Prokofy Neva
Jul 6th, 2007
Let me break it down to you, Janelle. You’re fake Internet histrionic story about your oppressive small-town life blah blah blah is as phony as a 3-dollar bill. There aren’t any clothes, and probably everything you say is fake. And it’s amazing that you and the other fakes here persist with this utterly phone Internet concoction.
Woodbury *is* an evil demon. You *are* a liar. You people are up to an elaborate scam here, and I see through it. It’s all fake, and you’re all in on it.
You’ve shown this time and again through your antics that always involve the same boring and repetitive and obvious M.O.s, and the same lame Eddie Haskell prevarications and now even bald-faced lies.
Woodbury, whatever it is, in SL, is a fraud. It’s a sham. There is no university, only the Big Lie. There’s people like you, taking part in the conspiracy, without a single article of clothing likely to show for all your “learning”. Normal, sincere people doing what you claim don’t have $400 to come spend on a rental griefing expedition that they’ve been informed will NOT be returned.
The Prokofy Fan Club is lighter by four people tonight, people caught griefing and crashing the Ravenglass sims, people photographed, documented, logged, and chatted, with both Tizzers Foxchase and Jim Schack, Intlibber’s henchman, presiding over the griefing posse.
Now do the math, total it up, and figure it out: lies and scams and pretend “anti-griefing” and “security” groups and actions can’t work in SL, where everything is transparent, and the truth will out sooner or later.
Rock, you act as if this is somehow “an accident” where somebody let “some kids” get away with something. No. It’s deliberate. It’s conscious. It’s evil. And it’s planned. It’s the same people doing it.
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jul 6th, 2007
>Prokofy
“Woodbury *is* an evil demon. You *are* a liar. You people are up to an elaborate scam here, and I see through it. It’s all fake, and you’re all in on it.”
Oh LOL!!!
Janelle is a liar? Well, I can’t really confirm or deny it as I’ve never really spoken to her, but since I quite sure she did rent a parcel from you, and I’m quite sure that you did ban her from your land and keep the money, (Which is disgusting behaviour) I’m willing to bet she’s telling the truth.
There is no elaborate scam, and you don’t see through anything. It’s all in your head, Prokofy. You’re a crazy cat lady and you’re imagining things yet again.
The ‘pretend anti-griefing and security groups’ were blatant SATIRE. Nothing more and nothing less. Lurkmoar.
Csven Concord
Jul 6th, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekw3XVq1uHs
Prokofy Neva
Jul 6th, 2007
Jessica,
You are not a worthy interlocutor because you keep wilfully and tendentiously misreading the fact and taking the side of terrorist-like griefers.
>I thought Ravenglass contained a series of rentals and that most rentals in Sl are open to the public at large. You don’t have people filling out renter’s applications. They go to a home and pay for a rental box. Isnt’ your open door policy the way everyone on SL leases out apartments?
My rentals are open to the public, and can be rented at will to anyone who right-clicks and pays the box as long as they are willing to abide by the rules IN GOOD FAITH. These people have a long and proven track record that they are NOT. Saying “these people” about a griefing group of alts and known crashers called “The Prokofy Fan Club” made to antagonize isn’t discrimination; it’s common sense, duh.
People who cross the entire grid after being expelled from Woodbury, Jessica, who have a long history of renting and destroying property on their various alts, who pick out Ravenglass out of the gadzillion rentals out there, are shopping for trouble, and making trouble.
These people crashed 2 sims last night, destroying property, inconveniencing Lindens and me, mounting a denial-of-services attack. Your blind and wilful obdurance about understanding this is really suspect. Your little friend Janelle is in this criminal group, whose soul purpose is to grief — and even crash sims and cause damages. If she isn’t technically pulling the trigger, she’s providing the safe house, the getaway car. It’s all part of the conspiracy.
>You also really need to stop quoting law to me and others, because you might be misleading other people in what is the law. Conspiracy needs more than intent, you need an agreement to commit a crime, the intent to enter into the agreement, an intent to acheive the purpose of the agreement and, typically, an overt act in order to have a conspiracy.
I’ll do no such thing, don’t be silly. You can’t tell me not to read and apply law in a discussion about justice; anyone can do that, of course, and not be told by lawyers who aren’t even lawyers yet that they can’t. And more to the point, all of these tests have been met. If you make a group called The Prokofy Fan Club with the alts of people previously banned from SL permanently, through many rounds of banning for grid-crashing and all manner of assaults, prim-litter, RL disclosure, harassment, racism, hate-speech, etc., and if you sole intent is to cause harm to that person you mockingly have a “fan club” for, and indeed you DO commit overt acts by coming to the sim, taunting, renting, harassing, then whistling and bringing in posses to crash that sim — after bombarding it with particles, self-replicating objects, etc. — you are indeed meeting all the tests. Easily!
You are like one of these lawyers who defends terrorists like shoe-bombers by parsing, nit-picking, literalizing, manipulating the law, and feigning all the things the lawyers have to feign when they have a client like that. You imagine that just because lawyers have the right to engage in this sort of defense in a free and open society, that it’s morally — and even legally — ok — and can keep being ok in a virtual world where there is far, far more transparency and where the law of discovery is both missing, and yet ever-present.
You imagine that you can defend shoe-bombers and exonerate them for ever. But you can’t. In real life, serious challenges and even disciplinary actions are brought against lawyers like that, and that sort of manipulative chicanery is what gives attorneys a bad name.
If your friend Janelle is in a group with already a long trail of griefing, of showing up shortly after a sim is mysteriously crashed, of wrecking stuff and shooting out Jello particles and disrupting a sim’s activity and freedom for hours, and rents on that sim that is the constant target of attacks, I’m sorry, you have all the evidence you need to deny her a rental even in an open system.
I suppose you imagine I’m supposed to allow her to rent, bring all her friends on the sim, litter it, put out my RL picture, particle-bomb it, then crash it — which is what Runny Panacek, Tizzers, and the rest of the posse did last night. Janelle is not in good faith here. She’s not really ‘about” learning to make clothing (clothing that for some mysterious reasons she can’t even show within SL because its um….only for real life, so she says). She’s about a conspiracy with intent to grief.
>However, you might have enough circumstantial evidence to show that Janelle was part of a conspiracy. But its not definate. Maybe she joined the group because she doesn’t like you. My problem is why is it that you get to decide to keep her money.
A landlord is more than entitled to operate from circumstantial evidence if he wishes to have a business that both protects his other tenants and his property — he’s not required to endlessly and idiotically open himself up to attacks. That’s just plain fucking retarded, and part of that overall nihilst, destructive assholery that we find all the time on the Internet and in SL from young people rapidly becoming decivilized.
Because her group has repeatedly caused me damages: downed sims, wrecked property, caused deletion of property as I or Lindens tried to hunt for and remove malicious scripts. If she doesn’t want to be tarred with the brush of a sinister and malicious criminal group, she doesn’t need to join it? Sorry, but I’m not required to be a lawyer here. I’m required to be a landowner who has to protect my tenants from harassment and abuse. You can play terrorist lawyer in SL; I’m not interested. See you in court.
>Aren’t you biased on that point? (not that Janelle is completely blameless. If you joined an “I hate Prok” group, why would you give him money in the first place?)
Of course she’s not blameless. Her joining of a known griefing group of people with already an ample track record of grief even on those new alts, and her selection alone among the millions of rentals in SL of just that sim that they always attack, is just completely, blatantly, and obviously a form of griefing in itself.
You seem to think that because SL affords ample opportunities to be a raging asshole, to operate in profoundly bad faith, to word-salad, comment-fisk, Haskellize, and generally behave like a total asshole in every discussion, and make alts and keep crashing sims, that this is how RL works, too, and that judges and juries will endlessly be forced to sit back and let you shower the world with criminality and bad faith. You are in for some very harsh surprises if you believe that.
>And just because Robin Linden says something, doesn’t make it true in the RW. I would like to hear what situation happened to you where you were held responsible for the actions of your tenants outside of the RW premises.
Robin’s correct, in SL as in RL, that landlords are responsible for their tenants on their premises. Full stop. Tenants are responsible for those on their premises. Full stop. More experienced REAL lawyers can explain this to you because no matter how much I explain this to you, you’ll be able to deny it by claiming I’m not “qualified” anyway. Of course landlords are responsible.
Suddenly, you are adding in “outside of the premises”. THat was NEVER part of the discussion. We have ALWAYS been talking about ON THE PREMISES, on that sim. The issue has ALWAYS been about the behaviour of tenants when the landlord is an absentee landlord, like Prof. clift has apparently been.
For you to suddenly interject “outside the premises” in a discussion in which this has NEVER, EVER been part of the elements of the debate is completely low — and retarded.
Unfortunately for us all, however, behaviour OFF the premises is a factor for SL too precisely because of how easy it is to move, break, enter, etc. Furthermore, what’s at issue is a group ownership, and the behaviour of the group, on and off the sim they own. Simply put, they are — and have always been — a conspiracy to commit fraud and deception by feigning to be an educational group while they aid and abet sim-crashers. The Lindens have invoked their concern for the community and the collective in seizing this island to address the problem of how this group terrorizes others.
Just like I’m not required to keep allowing rentals from griefers with a long trail of griefing history, by now, when the Lindens are in round three with these SAME people who have been around for nearly two years (they are not new, and are not kids), they aren’t required to keep playing “innocent until proven guilty”.
In my very first post on this latest round, I explained just how disturbing the philosophy of acting for the good of the collective is, and how it ultimately erodes property rights.
In fact, this sort of regime of “protection” can only be advisable in a world where the property owner in fact has no real rights. If he did, trust me, we’d all long ago have sued the pants off these idiots as we could in real life and they’d not be doing this.
Robin invoked the necessity of landlords not being negligent, and managing sims properly with the tools given them. This is applicable in RL, frankly, as well. The city could come and board up a building with a warrant, with a citation from the board of health – higher powers — if a slumlord let his building fill up with rats. You’re just not thinking straight because you’re overcome with the meanness and malevolence of SL debates, where all you’re interesting in doing is blindly lashing out against a parental figure like myself, somehow who refuses to put up with your bullshit, for whatever reason.
>In ending, good faith doesn’t mean accepting everything that you write as true solely because you wrote it. Like your use of the words ‘good faith’, which deal with honesty in facts and dealings.
Actually — and this will make some people mad — good faith indeed DOES mean for me accepting everything I write as true and in good faith solely because I write it. No one could mount hypotheses, statements, opinions in a free society in a free debate in an open world if this weren’t the case. It’s what makes up conviction. Something is true for me and is indeed a fact until proven otherwise. That means somebody can prove it otherwise; I can prove it otherwise. But if I’ve found facts, made a statement, put it out, indeed it’s true and is a fact — life couldn’t function otherwise. By the same token, it is a statement in good faith — if I can’t rely on myself to be an arbiter of good faith, who can I rely on?! If I’m going to accept the whittling away of what I know with logic and common sense to be good faith, from every comer, then I don’t *have* good faith.
>How am I not being honest Prok? I’m basing everything I write on the law and the facts provided to me here, which is the only place that I frequently post. Just because they don’t agree with your version of the facts, doesn’t mean I’m acting in bad faith.
No, you’re not acting in good faith, and not merely providing some commonly acceptable adversarial defense. What you’re doing is wilfully, obdurately, and even maliciously taking up the cause of destructive griefers, and trying to manipulate the law to backdate and fit to your skewed perception, merely because you’re trying to fight me.
Sorry, I don’t have to play. My rule for accepting any more challenges from you is simple: a) you must pass the bar b) you must work for one year as an attorney so you acquire practical experience. I’m just tired of taking on the work your parents and professors didn’t finish doing. Go play with Tizzers and Janelle and Hazim and Jim and all the other goons, go take up their cause — and in the end, if you are in good faith, you’ll be filled with remorse.
Second Lulz Vigilante
Jul 6th, 2007
@ anon
“lol I just hate these kinds of guys who use proTEC or some similar gadgets and think they are tough shit.”
proTEC sucks. Not funny enough. Besides it can’t unseat an opponent if need be.
“At least develop some of your own stuff, sheesh.”
What makes you think I haven’t? Scripting in lsl isn’t hard to do.
Can’t put it out on the market though. Then LL would put me on ice permanently like they did with Craze Copeland and some of those other guys. :\
Reality
Jul 6th, 2007
Dearie? You’re stating your opinions as facts again without real, concrete, hard line data.
A belief does not make your opinion a fact dearie, nor does constant repetition of said opinion.
If you have real proof – present it.
Chat logs? Worthless – they can be altered (your word means nothing dearie).
Observation and supposition? Worthless as well dearie. Both are subject to your own view and thoughts.
To put it bluntly dearie? You do not have anything at all to use to prove your own view except for the above alterable, perception based things.
Nor dearie do you have proof to back up your prior claims which have been challenged – As a matter of fact dearie you have yet to provide real proof or evidence to back up any of your opinions.
Misha Misu
Jul 6th, 2007
Janelle – give it up. You lost about 30,000 words ago. Do you think the readers here are idiots and can’t see what you’re tryting to do?
Prok eats people like you for breakfast. You’re out of your league here, kid.
I may not be Prok’s biggest fan (by far), but your amature attack is like an annoying mosquito at this point. I’m getting tired of waiting for you to step past that line where Prok eats your soul on cinnamon toast.
shockwave yareach
Jul 6th, 2007
“The only transaction that should be completed in regard to these people is the filing of a lawsuit against them for harassment and destruction of virtual property and denial-of-service attacks. ”
Then a) file your reports, b) stop taking money from known griefers or associates of griefers, and c) unless you can show tangible proof that it was Janelle who caused your loss of income and damages, you can’t justifiably take whatever you want from whoever you want and should pay it back. I would personally (because I love chasing prey) also file a claim against Woodbury University for the damages, since their people (and one Woodbury employee) caused it.
Janelle: I don’t know if you are sincere or not. I really don’t. If you are, and you want to REALLY learn how to make clothes and other stuff, then Woodbury and the griefers associated with it are not the ones to take lessons from. You see the reaction from Prok here. Nobody else has been able to make her waver in her staunch beliefs before, much less flush them down the toilet — I suppose some congratulations are in order. No doubt you’ll encounter many more people in the future who want nothing to do with anyone even remotely associated with griefing groups.
If you truly want to learn, lesson one is that belonging to a ill thought of group automatically stains you with that group’s rep. It isn’t fair and I never claimed that it was. But that’s the way it is. Lesson two is that there are far better places to learn how to make clothes or build things. Start with the New Citizen Center and googling “second life clothes templates” in your browser.
As for the 400L… just write the 1.50US$ off as “Bad Investment”.
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 6th, 2007
Prok,
You are not a ‘parental figure.’ You are an arrogant bully who thinks that if they say things long enough and loud enough that those words will be taken either seriously or be deemed to have formed a worthwhile opinion.
And I truly resent your arrogance in every single respect. You do not have a right to keep someone’s money just because they are in a “griefing group.”
I also noticed that you avoided what I was asking about, which is relevant to the thread of this discussion. Professor Clift lost the Woodbury sim due to the griefing actions of the group associated with the sim. In the Robin Linden meeting, you asked the extent of the responsibility of land owners for the actions of their tenants. Robin alluded to the actions of their tenants being the responsiblity outside of the sim, in this case, being the responsibility of the land owners. Based on that mutual experience, remember I was there too, I asked the question. Now you are changing the parameters. Time and again, this argument has been around landowners being responsible for the actions of their tenants. This is what the controversy is about, whether or not Clift deserved to lose the island due to the actions of the group associated with the island. Many people would argue that the actions of the *group members* did not warrant having the university lose the island.
Also, time and again, you argue in bad faith against me because you misapply what I am asking and what is being said, because you want to be seen as intelligent and cannot admit to being wrong. I have stated, time and again, that a landlord is not responsible for the actions of their tenants, which is central to what is being said here. Clift is being held responsible for the actions of the other member’s of the Woodbury University group. When you rebut this, you mention that a landlord is responsible for rats entering a building, which is true, but its not the actions of the tenants that he is being held responsible for. You also tried to use the doctrine of attractive nuisance, which is inapplicable because that doctrine does not describe a landlord being responsible for his tenants, that’s how much responsiblity is given to a landowner if someone is injured on their land and its an exception to the general rule.
How about this? Is a landlord responsible for a tenant setting fire to his building? No, because he would still collect an insurance payment.
And if you chose not to respond to me, that’s fine too. But I will not be silenced or corrected by an incorrect, immature bully.
This isn’t about me being a law school graduate. That’s something you argue and throw into my face every chance you get. You have argued how much lawyers are pompous, that they shouldn’t be in SL because they will just mess up your utopia, that if they defend criminals, then they will resort to tactics that are by their very nature, immoral and illegal. I don’t throw my legal education in people’s faces nor do I bring it up unless specifically asked. I argue with the facts and the law. I am open to disagreement and I can admit when I am wrong. Unlike you. I argue against you, not because I see you as a layperson, but I see you as wrong and pig-headed.
And if your words can’t be argued against and stand up against that arguement, perhaps they aren’t worth having.
HamsandwichX
Jul 6th, 2007
@ prok
—–”These people crashed 2 sims last night, destroying property, inconveniencing Lindens and me, mounting a denial-of-services attack. Your blind and wilful obdurance about understanding this is really suspect. Your little friend Janelle is in this criminal group, whose soul purpose is to grief — and even crash sims and cause damages. If she isn’t technically pulling the trigger, she’s providing the safe house, the getaway car. It’s all part of the conspiracy.”
Actually, one did (hazim), the other (ralewyn) wanted to say hi to you, according to him, you ignored him and hid inside a small banned parcel and took pictures of him, like you think you’re some kind of war photographer, and you got him permanetly banned for trying to say hi, you’re more paranoid than the KGB.
anon
Jul 6th, 2007
>>proTEC sucks. Not funny enough. Besides it can’t unseat an opponent if need be.
Ah, so you use that hack. Yeah, you could be AR’d pretty badly for that.
HazimGazovX
Jul 6th, 2007
Runny is just one of my alts, you fat twerp.
Jim Schack
Jul 6th, 2007
Yea i show up once of the many times her sim gets attacked and I’m in on a huge conspiracy to take Prokofy down. Her proof? That i was wearing a Feted Inner Core badge and was floating. Linden Labs didn’t ban by account like they did the others because they did audit my account and it showed I had NO contact with any of the individuals responsible for crashing you sim until after I arrived. in which the only things I said were “hello”, “I just wanna look around to be honest” and “Yea i wanna see her too.” I rezzed nothing, i ran no malicious scripts i didn’t even use an annoying gesture. And even if I were to grief you, i wouldn’t be half as stupid as you are and do it under my main account. But my continued existence isn’t proof enough for her. My not doing anything wasn’t proof enough. Instead he cried like a little bitch in IM saying “Liar Liar! I saw you I saw you and linden labs are gonna take you down! Because you were here! And the servers don’t lie.”
I’m still here. I didn’t crash your sim. I would not stoop, to your level. Now air out your house, the ammonia from all the cat piss is making you high.
Jim Schack
Jul 6th, 2007
Ohh and your lame “Tizzers was greifing me with her presence” bullshit was noted by the Lindens after they investigated her account as well and found her wholly innocent of everything. Her Permabann was reversed last night. Is there ANYONE who can’t see your pure crazy and bullshit Prokofy?
Artemis Fate
Jul 6th, 2007
“Yea i show up once of the many times her sim gets attacked and I’m in on a huge conspiracy to take Prokofy down. Her proof? That i was wearing a Feted Inner Core badge and was floating. Linden Labs didn’t ban by account like they did the others because they did audit my account and it showed I had NO contact with any of the individuals responsible for crashing you sim until after I arrived. in which the only things I said were “hello”, “I just wanna look around to be honest” and “Yea i wanna see her too.” I rezzed nothing, i ran no malicious scripts i didn’t even use an annoying gesture. And even if I were to grief you, i wouldn’t be half as stupid as you are and do it under my main account. But my continued existence isn’t proof enough for her. My not doing anything wasn’t proof enough. Instead he cried like a little bitch in IM saying “Liar Liar! I saw you I saw you and linden labs are gonna take you down! Because you were here! And the servers don’t lie.”"
Oh Jim, when will you learn? Things like “Proof” and “facts” mean nothing to Prokofy, Prokofy runs completely on conspiracy based on heresy, rumor, and conjecture, if you ask Prokofy “What’s 2+2?” He’ll say “MARXIST CONSPIRACY!”
Kryss Wanweird
Jul 6th, 2007
“Runny is just one of my alts, you fat twerp.”
That means Tizzers married an alt?
How sad and humiliating for her…
Why Bother
Jul 6th, 2007
>Her Permabann was reversed last night.
And once again, the Lindens never learn a damn thing. Put her back on ice now. Anyone who so wishes, file an AR on Tizzers and explain why they don’t want her on the grid. If we get enough of voice behind it maybe the people can get Tizzers permabanned again. Note I’m not forcing anyone to do it, do it only if you feel it is the right thing to do. If you feel she has done nothing wrong, don’t AR. If you do, then file an AR, and make sure to explain in the AR why you are filing it and why you feel Tizzers should be removed.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jul 6th, 2007
Yes, someone *cough* used undue influence that they so often hew and cry that they lack with LL, and got Tizzers permanently banned on false charges last night for “launching a grid attack”. When the logs were checked, as requested by myself, it was found who was actually responsible for the *TWO*, count em, TWO sims crashed by an epically failed PN attack. One was in furnation, one was proks.
Tizzers was not responsible, even indirectly, she is not PN, has disavowed the group completely.
You, Prok, are an utter embarassment. A disgrace. Not only was Tizzers completely innocent, as the record showed, but you also have the utter gall to accuse my VP, Jim Schack, of being responsible too. Linden Lab has determined otherwise.
I hereby demand an immediate retraction and apology as a HEADLINE STORY, or I demand you be fired from SL Herald for libel and slander, journalistic malfeasance and fraud, and corrupt manipulation of Lindens.
You are a disgusting human being. You do not deserve to be in SL, for you are not creative, you are not innovative, you are a pox upon humanity with your ranting and PTA fascism and conspiracy theories. You wonder why you don’t make profits with your sims, its because you are a cancerous, toxic personality that people do not want to be around. That you steal rents from tenants is just one more sign of your toxicity.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 6th, 2007
Jim, you and Tizzers are masters at deceit and propaganda — but since you’re role-playing in a game, it’s all transparent at the end of the day, and people can only get a good laugh at your silly posturing.
Nobody buys your bullshit that you “just happen to be out patrolling” and you follow griefers to see “what they do” or that Tizzers “just happens to come into Ravenglass”.
People who have formed and joined a conspiratorial griefing group like “The Prokofy Fan Club” with the sole intent to parody, annoy, bother, harass Prokofy, don’t come to Ravenglass “by accident”. They come to grief. And that’s noted, they are banned, and crap doesn’t fly like “I’m just coming to say hello even though I’m wish people who are pushing your real life picture and giant Russian blocks around, don’t mind them, I’m really just here to say hi”. ROFLMFAO!
They come and fly around while their alt friends pull the trigger, crashing the sim, pushing giant blocks with my RL picture or griefing Russian texts, and such. So sure, you can claim “plausible deniability” and sure, the Lindens may not be able to “get anything on you”. But in time, all of you slip up and do get your ass handed to.
They know, I know, we *all* know that you are as fake as the day is long. You’re in on it, and you’re trying to skirt the TOS and taunt and deceive and grief through cat’s paws like a throwaway account called “Comfortablynumb Carnell”.
The Lindens know full well I’m not “pure crazy and batshit” because they can see the chatlog, and see that Tizzers comes in and says, while flying on a witch’s broom (*rolls eyes*), “Am I griefing?” as her boyfriend pushes giant prims around and crashes the sim. So, her boyfriend is gone from the people list. She’s frozen and put under investigation, but then put back in merely because technically she’s not pulling the trigger.
But her reputation as a griefer, a liar, a manipulator, and a conspirator stands, for precisely this reason, that she provocatively, demonstrably, defiantly comes into a sim and tries to rent and then whistles to bring in her goons.
As you do.
Of course LL can’t “take you down” — yet. But keep this sort of mere appearing and harassing and feining plausible deniability, and they will. Because it will be abuse reported again and again and they’ll be called upon again and again. Eventually, it adds up. People who feign that they aren’t griefing eventually do get caught.
This is the old and tired M.O. of w-hat and all its offshoots, of which Woodbury is only the latest. Fake accounts, deniable griefers, blah blah blah. Everybody reading the Herald, however, can see what a preposterously lame asshole you are though, for playing spy and playing “griefer patrol,” while coming on to a sim wearing a FIC button (*rolls eyes*) and “intel op headphones” and all the other pathetic RP stuff that overgrown teenage boys like yourself do on games.
>And I truly resent your arrogance in every single respect. You do not have a right to keep someone’s money just because they are in a “griefing group.”
Hi, Jessica! I’m not able to come to your Comment Fisking right now, and as I’ve told you already, after you’ve passed the bar and spent one year practicing law and getting it right, I’ll be happy to debate you again! Buh-bye!
Janelle Kyomoon
Jul 6th, 2007
Shockwave I am serious and I thank you for not attacking me over this as many (Prokofy) have done. I merely wanted to state the fact I was given a free place to work within Woodbury. That not all Woodbury people were /b/tards and the like. I did start at at the beginner’s area as well as reading numerous tutorials on the internet on different ways to turn prims into actual clothing. Woodbury simply stated gave me a place to use my prims, leave them there if I had to get up and take care of my son, do schoolwork, etc. without having to pay a rental fee on a piece of land or office. I have since put myself in a wonderful office provided by Intlibber for a very reasonable price. I will be working on stuff there and do plan to work on a certain item that I will possibly be making a copy of IRL and wearing to the SLCC.
Oh and I had the joy of visiting the ACTUAL Woodbury campus on my vacation the past two days. It is a truly beautiful college that has been there for quite some time. So my question to you Prokofy is how does a college founded in 1884 (before you, me or the PN were even around) become a conspiracy and not an actual college?
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 6th, 2007
I was reminded of a couple of things this afternoon.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Interior: Bedroom
Jessica Holyoke is at her computer typing into the Herald forums. Prokofy Neva walks in and looks over her shoulder.
Prokofy yells: What is this? Are you comment fisking? Who taught you how to comment fisk?
Jessica shouts: You all right. I learned it from watching you.
False authority figures who comment fisk have people who argue with them use comment fisking.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
I read the wikipedia article and fisking was not reported as bad form or bad faith. Just another form of debate, but that developed its own verb.
Also, if what you say is true about who’s reponsible for whose actions, why haven’t you held the Linden’s responsible for the actions of the griefers?
Also, how do you know whose alt is whose? Isn’t part of the point of alts anonymity?
“Democracy without civil liberties is simply a tyranny of the majority”
Jim Schack
Jul 6th, 2007
Fuck you Prokofy. I was not with those guys, I did not know they were there until AFTER I GOT THERE YOU FUCKING CAT HORDING PSYCHO BITCH!
Linden Labs AUDITED my chat and IMs. Not only did they find I was not communicating with Hazim I had NO RECORD OF TALKING WITH HIM PERIOD! *THAT* is why I didn’t get banned. How fucking dare you accuse me and my boss of being a griefer! The fact of the matter is is that LL DOES think your crazy and batshit. How do I know, 3 of them told me so.
I am in the Prokofy Fan Club because we are a group who think you’re fucking BATSHIT! And we are a majority, a VAST majority. I can barley find ANYONE who doesn’t.
You are a shame to journalism. You are a parasite on the ass of Second Life sucking any legitimacy users may have of making this place the new web. You and your stupid mindless conspiracies are a figment of your imagination which you try to apply to everyone is reality which EVERYONE IN SECOND LIFE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH? Who here honestly believes anything Prok has to say? WHO? Who but anyone who lives in little Prokofy La La Cat Turd Land. Not a damn one. Not a goddamn soul Prok.
No one likes you. Go fucking kill your self. I’m sure the animal shelter will make sure your cats find a home where they can live in peace.
This is a call to reason. Please write to Pixeleen Mistral and tell her you have had enough of Prokofy littering The SLHearld with unfounded libel slander of everyone who disagrees with her bullshit conspiracy theories that are as ludicrous as holocaust denial theories if not more.
Prok, again SHOW US PROOF FOR YOUR OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS! Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence. If not, then it shows that you are extraordinary batshit crazy and stupid.
Economic Mip
Jul 6th, 2007
Well Janelle, I am glad you found some new space. I think I remember seeing some of your work in Woodbury, and it really isn’t bad. You should ask Tenshi to be in her next show.
I am not saying that all of the work done at Woodbury was bad, not at all. However, Professor Clift made the mistake back in April to trust Tizzers as an estate manager, and I made several mistakes along the way too. I believe that a Woodbury 2.0 would be a good thing, but it is necessary to restrict members to people who can be trusted, and probably turn of scripts in areas with build enabled. Unfortunately, in Second Life too much freedom is a situation which is abused, however as the situation with Tizzers shows, that is the same in real life. Should she be perma-banned? I doubt it, but she definitely deserved to be fired, as she was around for most of the major problems, admitted in the comments on this site to creating most of Furry Death Camp Crap, and ignored warnings from all fronts about the dangers of her “friends”.
And when Woodbury comes back, I will be there with a long boring lecture series on virtual racism and hate speech. Intlibber, Thank you for giving Janelle land to build on, maybe there is a decent human being under all of your ranting.
Why Bother
Jul 6th, 2007
Not that I care about Prok (cuz really I don’t and it makes me sick that I’m somewhat siding with Prok), but Intlibber there is starting to become the same if not worse than Prok. As stated before he is becoming a little drunk with all this supposed power he thinks he has.
Again, as stated before. If you deem Tizzers a threat, then AR her and explain to LL why you want her gone. If you have evidence against her then send that along with the AR. Make it clear to LL that we do not want Tizzers or Woodbury on the grid. The voice of the people will be heard.
It is high time to start boycotting Intlibber Brautigan’s various business and his various sims. I used to believe in this guy, gladly used to be one of his tenants…now I don’t believe in him nor trust him. Seeing the way he’s carried himself on the various comments on the Herald. Seeing as how he was directly involved in that Furry Concentration camp. Seeing as how he and his “VP” seem to be carrying out their personal grudges for whatever reason. I feel that Intlibber has eroded all his credibility. I urge everyone able who does any kind of business with him to refrain from doing so and boycott him.
Jim Schack
Jul 7th, 2007
Prok you are a master of deception as well.. I never claimed to be there “on accident” Nor did i come to “see what they do” nor did I say “just happen to be out patrolling” nor that “tizzers just happens to come into Ravenglass” Nor did I say i was going to talk to you or even “just say hi.”
Talk about strawman arguments.
as I told you I was not on patrol, I was jsut there on another day you got griefed. It’s like walking in into an animal shelter and seeing a dog licking it’s balls and because I was in the same building that i put peanut butter on it’s balls.
>coming on to a sim wearing a FIC button
Actualy, you might wanan get your vision checked. It’s a badge. I only wear it to make you more paranoid.
>and you “intel op headphones”
That’s called a Multi-gadget by Timeless Prototype which has flight assist and agent detector and otehr tools that are useful. Anyone who’s anyone has one…. except for you. Next time you’re in a crowded room Turn on your Highlight Transparents. See those poles coming out of people’s heads? Those people got Multi-gadgets last night ™.
>and all the other pathetic RP stuff that overgrown teenage boys like yourself do on games.
What my black widow gun? or is it my nice Blaze suit? Prim-optic sunglasses? It’s the skate shoes, right? Yea, who needs +20 armor and +6 magic when you can have +10 Audio Skate Shoes. Dumb bitch.
>Everybody reading the Herald, however, can see what a preposterously lame asshole you are
Prokofy. I don’t know if you noticed… but that sentence ONLY applies to you. for every one “atta’ boy Prok” there over 9000 “FUCK YOU BITCH”s I you wouldn’t believe the amopunt of support I’ve drawn from YOUR OWN readers.
Anonymous
Jul 7th, 2007
>as I told you I was not on patrol, I was jsut there on another day you got griefed. It’s like walking in into an animal shelter and seeing a dog licking it’s balls and because I was in the same building that i put peanut butter on it’s balls.
I guess Intlibber better take the peanut butter off YOUR balls dude then because he told me you were “patrolling sims that the griefers frequent” and that’s why you were in Ravenglass.
>What my black widow gun? or is it my nice Blaze suit? Prim-optic sunglasses? It’s the skate shoes, right? Yea, who needs +20 armor and +6 magic when you can have +10 Audio Skate Shoes. Dumb bitch.
Uri always says: we don’t even have to make this stuff up!
Prokofy Neva
Jul 7th, 2007
>Prok, again SHOW US PROOF FOR YOUR OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS! Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence. If not, then it shows that you are extraordinary batshit crazy and stupid.
Um, the multiple pictures of your prolonged hovering in Ravenglass aren’t about you admiring the waterfalls, dumbass ROFL.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 7th, 2007
The politics of Woodbury decidedly slant to the left. It’s a small college of some 1,500. It’s kind of goofy, and a reader has helpfully written in that it has what he deemed a “Marxist governance structure” (I don’t make up this stuff) and it was noted that our friend Prof. Eddie here is one of three staff who award themselves “staff developmental awards”. There is no web page, publications, readings list — nothing. Just a lot of hokum. Somebody should report them to the state’s accreditation bureau.
>As reiterated before, Woodbury University group had been policed for more than two months by not just myself and my security staff, but members of JLU. Any persons attempting to promote griefing, coordinate griefing, or brag about griefing were promptly and swiftly ARd and banned from SL or banlinked. Tizzers Foxchase volunteered to invite us into her group to help police it. The vilification of her here by Prok and her minions is both unwarranted and unfair, but what we’ve all come to expect from the Prokasaurus. Of course Tizzers, being a young person, seems to enjoy torquing off 50+ year old crazy cat ladies, about what one expects from folks of that age. Hell, a lot of the rest of us enjoy it too.
See, these sorts of statements are gems, because they contain the, oh, Marxian internal contradictions that let’s these folks hang themselves by their own petard. Not griefers…unwarranted “villification” and yet…erm…”enjoy torquing. Ho-kay!
From what I gather, Intblubber isn’t exactly on the right side of 39 himself ROFL.
Hey, griefers in a conspiratorial griefers’ group who have intent to commit crime and have committed overt acts can scream all the want about fraud but they can also…stop renting from me to harass me ROFL. That would be a good way not to be losing one’s money! And…the more people in this group scream about how they were discriminated against by evil Prok, the more most people will simply set their ban lists to their names, because griefing me is a marker for a certain kind of persisten griefing group in SL that grief many other people, events, sims, etc. and eventually, they’ll turn even on Intblubber.
I fail to see how I support any nanny state, as it’s not me, but Intblubber and the ill-named Angel Fluffy who wish to get the Lindens to run a gigantic ban-list mechanism for them, providing LSL functions right in the client for them to export and franchise their banning, as they are unable to take care of themselves ROFL.
I don’t “rant,” I merely name, shame, document, expose, it’s the best form of resistance, I’ve always found. Has worked great so far!
>She refuses to use the tools at hand to implement her own security: using Abuse Reports, SLBanlink, or commercial security products like those produced by Ng Security. When you refuse to take personal responsibility for the security of your own property, you lose, and get griefed. You also cause damage to your neighbors when your negligence results in their property being griefed by sim crashing, spamming, etc.
ROFL. So…let’s all get this straight now. Unless we buy these invesntions that Intblubber and his goons have invented and/or are promoting, we are guilty of not caring about our personal security? Huh? We have tools like ban and turning off object creation that work fine. The neighbour’s store from which this latest posse griefed is himself a griefer who came to the sim to harass deliberately when someone else sold him the parcel. But that’s life on the mainland. We cope. I like it better than those flat pancake Trumanvilles that Intblubber runs.
>Landowners therefore must assume responsibility for their own land, even at the cost of turning off features to the general public that are exploitable for destruction. The lack of ability to use such features may encourage non-payment users to get legitimate premium accounts.
This is skewed back-assward thinking and simply not coherent. People who grief aren’t people with unhappy childhoods, or people who are thwarted in their creativity pursuits. People who grief are more often than not 39-year-old males living in “free states” for whom such states are never free enough because they fail to indulge their infantalism sufficiently!
Prokofy Neva
Jul 7th, 2007
>Tizzers was not responsible, even indirectly, she is not PN, has disavowed the group completely.
I guess that’s why she married Hazim’s alt, and why her friends unleash Jellowned textures, and why Hood Bury goes around in a blackface carrying a Kentucky Fried Chicken bucket, accompanying Tizzers to grief and disrupt my events. Ho-kay!
>You, Prok, are an utter embarassment. A disgrace. Not only was Tizzers completely innocent, as the record showed, but you also have the utter gall to accuse my VP, Jim Schack, of being responsible too. Linden Lab has determined otherwise.
>I hereby demand an immediate retraction and apology as a HEADLINE STORY, or I demand you be fired from SL Herald for libel and slander, journalistic malfeasance and fraud, and corrupt manipulation of Lindens.
BURSTS OUT LAUGHING.
I’ll do no such thing. The Lindens haven’t proved shit. Your chief goonster doesn’t have any business coming on my sim, so his presence there, hovering over a pack of junkyard dogs unleashing anti-Semitic self-replicating red balls, giant boxes with my RL picture and annoying Russian textures, etc. — anybody with eyes in their head can see what’s up. It’s especially humorous to see how your two stories differ: he claims he was patrolling sims where he expected trouble; you claim something else. Geez, at least get your stories right.
Keep talking, bub, it only sets you up for further action. I’ve reported accurately on your shenanigans here; I’ve properly abuse-reported your security goon and your new griefer friends that you imagine you can “turn” and “buy out” and “teach to earn spacebux.” If you have further concerns, I dunno, take it to the Lindens.
>You are a disgusting human being. You do not deserve to be in SL, for you are not creative, you are not innovative, you are a pox upon humanity with your ranting and PTA fascism and conspiracy theories. You wonder why you don’t make profits with your sims, its because you are a cancerous, toxic personality that people do not want to be around. That you steal rents from tenants is just one more sign of your toxicity.
1) In fact I do make a profit from my sims or I wouldn’t be doing this, geez. 2) I don’t steal rents from tenants, that’s silly. I protect my tenants from griefing. If griefers like the now-banned Runny and the griefing-posse-member Janelle want to plunk $400 down as their method of griefing me, they’ll have to um, write it off as expenses for their um “education” at “Woodbury”. They could also write home to Mom and Dad and see if they can cover that big $1.48 loss they suffered, or maybe drink one less Slurpee this week from the 7/11?
Jim Schack
Jul 7th, 2007
Why Bother-
>It is high time to start boycotting Intlibber Brautigan’s various business and his various sims…Seeing as how he was directly involved in that Furry Concentration camp.
If that what you feel is necessary so be it. Marketplace decisions like boycotting is what we are all about. If you do not like what we do, then please take your business elsewhere. However, I think you should read that Furrie Concentration camp story again because I do believe you have your facts wrong on it. What IntLibber did was hand the keys over to Woodbury as revenge for the countless times the Alliance Navy crashed Badnarik. My sim monitor console warnings at times gets flooded with online/offline warnings. After he handed those keys to them in involvement ends and Woodbury’s begin. Though I do not agree with the furrie concentration camp, i do not agree with LL’s response to it as well. BnT do not exclude furries nor do we try to attack or harm them. Infact my security team works close with many in the fur community and there are and were furries on the payroll for quite sometime.
>Seeing as how he and his “VP” seem to be carrying out their personal grudges for whatever reason. I feel that Intlibber has eroded all his credibility.
I hope Prokofy Neva writes bullshit libel slander against you. Perhaps you will understand why we are frustrated with this batshit cat hording conspiracy theorist. Prokofy started throwing her cat shit at us first, we’re jsut trying to set the record strait. Every time we try she invents some new “fact” that came strait out of her ass that has no basis in fact or even logic to promote her FIC bullshit as being true.
>”Democracy without civil liberties is simply a tyranny of the majority”
Great post. But this caught my eye. Democracy that protects civil liberties is not a democracy. It would be a republic. None the less… funny =)
Reality
Jul 7th, 2007
“>Prok, again SHOW US PROOF FOR YOUR OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS! Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence. If not, then it shows that you are extraordinary batshit crazy and stupid.
Um, the multiple pictures of your prolonged hovering in Ravenglass aren’t about you admiring the waterfalls, dumbass ROFL.”
Um, pictures are worthless dearie. chat logs are worthless dearie.
Try again.
Reality
Jul 7th, 2007
“The Lindens haven’t proved shit.”
Um, dearie? The Lindens have more real evidence than you do. They own the servers. All you have is biased observation and conjecture.
At the end of the day – Linden Lab has the final say on the matter.
Ian Betteridge
Jul 7th, 2007
Prok says: “I don’t “rant,” I merely name, shame, document, expose, it’s the best form of resistance, I’ve always found. Has worked great so far!”
Yeah, it’s sure worked in reducing the amount of griefing on Ravenglass… oh no wait….
Jim Schack
Jul 7th, 2007
> Um, the multiple pictures of your prolonged hovering in Ravenglass aren’t about you admiring the waterfalls, dumbass ROFL.
How did that crash your sim? Dumbass. Now, show me proof that I was involved in other people’s activities before you go accusing me of shit.
>From what I gather, Intblubber isn’t exactly on the right side of 39 himself ROFL.
You ain’t exactly Paris Hilton yourself, toots. Have you looked at your birthdate or a mirror lately you fat ol’ wrinkly ball of lard? You wanna play an important role in SL, then excersise and get those rolls out from under your shirt. Fattie.
>I fail to see how I support any nanny state, as it’s not me, but Intblubber and the ill-named Angel Fluffy who wish to get the Lindens to run a gigantic ban-list mechanism for them, providing LSL functions right in the client for them to export and franchise their banning, as they are unable to take care of themselves ROFL.
Ummm….what? Says who? Ohh this is one of those strawman arguments again.
>don’t “rant,” I merely name, shame, document, expose, it’s the best form of resistance, I’ve always found. Has worked great so far!
That’s why everyone thinks your off your rocker, right? Well if that was your goal, I guess you’re right!
>So…let’s all get this straight now. Unless we buy these invesntions that Intblubber and his goons have invented and/or are promoting, we are guilty of not caring about our personal security? We have tools like ban and turning off object creation that work fine.
First of all… we didn’t develop ban link, ARs or commercial security products *like* those produced by Ng Security. We only invented the products ARE those produced by Ng Security. If your security is so great how come you’re accusing me of crashing your sim? HELLO!?
>The neighbour’s store from which this latest posse griefed is himself a griefer who came to the sim to harass deliberately when someone else sold him the parcel. But that’s life on the mainland. We cope.
Bullshit. I don’t even need to explain why that’s bullshit. It’s self-evident.
>People who grief are more often than not 39-year-old males living in “free states” for whom such states are never free enough because they fail to indulge their infantalism sufficiently!
Prok, you are aware that this made absolutely no since right? Just checking.
>Your chief goonster doesn’t have any business coming on my sim, so his presence there, hovering over a pack of junkyard dogs unleashing anti-Semitic self-replicating red balls, giant boxes with my RL picture and annoying Russian textures, etc. — anybody with eyes in their head can see what’s up.
Yea, me floating and watching. It’s not like I actually rez any of that shit or even told or encouraged them to do it. But I guess thats why you wear glasses and still can’t notice i was wearing a badge not a button and wasn’t dressed like a Level 3 Wizard.
>It’s especially humorous to see how your two stories differ: he claims he was patrolling sims where he expected trouble; you claim something else. Geez, at least get your stories right.
>I guess Intlibber better take the peanut butter off YOUR balls dude then because he told me you were “patrolling sims that the griefers frequent” and that’s why you were in Ravenglass.
We don’t have to get our stories right, he wasn’t involved cunt weed. Int was sleeping, I was out. Because we had a miscommunication over a single word… w/e. I understood that a PN raid on Furnation and Friedman had just ended. I decided to look at your sim, along with others, because those 2 were secure and was simply scouring because I was board and had nothign better to do. I didn’t know Hazin and his friends were there until after i got there. But I should have from an idiot cat lady who not only feeds greifers what they want, she serves it to them on a silver platter. Just because I oped out of helping you because of your continued libel and slander against my company and my boss.
>They could also write home to Mom and Dad and see if they can cover that big $1.48 loss they suffered, or maybe drink one less Slurpee this week from the 7/11?
Umm…. ok. Wait… was that an attempt at a clever insult.. because again, you failed.
Jim Schack
Jul 7th, 2007
Anyways I’m sure a lot of the SL Herald is tired of all this libel conspiracy fallacy world Prok tries to portray and we simply have had enough.
Today 7/7/07 at 1PM SLT we will be staging a PEACEFUL protest outside of the SL Herald asking them to fire Prokofy. Please, no /b/ no griefing. Signs will be provided by me.
This is getting to be ri-goddamn-diculous and I will not allow my company to suffer because some batshit lunatic to proffer bullshit conspiracy theories in an effort to damage our productivity.
Prok is a crock, FIRE HER!
IntLibber Brautigan
Jul 7th, 2007
Reality,
I like your rational view of things. The problem we are dealing with is that Prok is irrational. Incapable of seeing reason.
The Lindens don’t have to prove anything to Prokofy, something she doesn’t understand. She thinks her career at the UN entitles her to more respect than she deserves, or that she’s published a number of translations of Russian works (available on Amazon) makes her a celebrity of literature that commands respect.
Linden Lab knows the facts of what happened, but Prok doesn’t trust them or their word either. FIC, and all that jazz (I finally got my FIC badge a couple weeks ago Prok, they said anybody who annoys Prok and Anshe that much deserves membership), Prok suspects us all of being in on the Leninist Conspiracy to cause her economic butt-hurt and offend her demands for the freedom to impose on SL the sort of fascist society that would prohibit public advertising, the use of word-salad in one’s free speech, acting like Eddie Haskell (even in a dramatic reproduction, cause that would give the kids bad ideas), or voting 5 times for anything.
Once again: Your lies and slander, without foundation, must be retracted in headlines by this paper or you fired. We can boycott the herald too (or do a reverse boycott, love you to death). To launch this, there will be a protest outside the SLH at 1pm today. All are invited to come, PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE, and express your displeasure with the Heralds continued employment of a bag thats way past her prime and is starting to offend the neighbors.
Why Bother
Jul 7th, 2007
>>However, I think you should read that Furrie Concentration camp story again because I do believe you have your facts wrong on it. What IntLibber did was hand the keys over to Woodbury as revenge for the countless times the Alliance Navy crashed Badnarik. My sim monitor console warnings at times gets flooded with online/offline warnings. After he handed those keys to them in involvement ends and Woodbury’s begin.
Hmmm. So that excuses him completely? How does that work? This is starting to go past facts and into ethics issues. You’re basically eluding that if I wanted to, let’s say this as an example, bought a gun with my own money and handed to someone and said “Here, do with it as you please” that doing so excuses me from the actions of the person I handed the gun to? So that person goes out and kills a slew of people. So what then huh? My involvement ended when I handed the gun over right? Yes it’s an extreme example, yes it’s more RL than SL, but the underlining principle remains. Intlibber was ethically wrong in my opinion. He knew what was going to happen and still went with it.
I’m sorry Jim, it’s just starting to seem like you and your boss are in no ways professional at all. I don’t care about Prok, you, or Intlibber. Yet when people go to far and start broadly offending people or worse then you start affecting more than just the people you are “seeking” revenge on.
Just as professor Clift has done, you and Intlibber are using any excuse to justify your questionable actions, or just cover your asses. Flawed logic combined with flawed ethics doesn’t make them both full and just with put together.
Now you may resume your little spat with Prok (ie Prok, Janelle, Intlibber, you Jim and etc), because simply it’s making you all look childish as it escalates.
Anon
Jul 7th, 2007
yall see mootykips was right about Intlib being evil
Jim Schack
Jul 7th, 2007
Hmmm. So that excuses him completely?
No. You’re are just assuming I’d defend his every action.
>You’re basically eluding that if I wanted to, let’s say this as an example, bought a gun with my own money and handed to someone and said “Here, do with it as you please” that doing so excuses me from the actions of the person I handed the gun to? So that person goes out and kills a slew of people. So what then huh? My involvement ended when I handed the gun over right? Yes it’s an extreme example, yes it’s more RL than SL, but the underlining principle remains.
no, that’s not an extreme example, that’s probably one of the worst analogies I have ever heard in my life. How is acquiring land and building something offensive anything like acquiring a gun and murdering large quantiles of people? Guns are designed for killing and putting holes in things. Land is… well not. “Broadly offensive material” isn’t designed to kill either.
>You and Intlibber are using any excuse to justify your questionable actions, or just cover your asses.
For the record, I had nothing to do with the Alliance Navy stunt. That was an action taken by Int on his own time. What he does on his own time is his own deal, not mine, not BnT’s. So I am not covering my ass or Int’s. I’m not even really defending him. But I do have to step up to the plate to inform you that it was not HIM that built the furrie concentration camp nor was it his idea nor did he know as it was outlined in the article. That’s where you were off on the facts. So keep my name out of the AN shit.
>Now you may resume your little spat with Prok (ie Prok, Janelle, Intlibber, you Jim and etc), because simply it’s making you all look childish as it escalates.
will do.
Jim Schack
Jul 7th, 2007
>yall see mootykips was right about Intlib being evil
ok… This is coming from a guy who tried to ram planes into a virtual WTC? If Stalin says someone is evil, people tend not to give a shit who he thinks is evil.
Reality
Jul 7th, 2007
Thank you Intlibber – quite frankly I am still waiting on proof from Prokofy regarding the viability of actually living inside a computer program.
Moody Loner (MoodyLoner Korobase)
Jul 7th, 2007
No, don’t fire Prok (I can call you Prok, right?), his articles and comments usually leave me with questions – of course the questions are usually along the lines of “Why do I keep inflicting that upon myself?”
Just casually curious, though…the lame-ass “griefers” that wandered in to our party until their “We never left junior high school” humor got on my nerves and I muted them…those were TERRORISTS?
You’re kidding, right? Satire? Humorous over-statement of your position to get a laugh?
Yes, I know, I’m new here. But, come on – how can people trying, in their own sweetly pathetic way, to be funny in a World where you can mute people and objects at will possibly be compared to terrorists?
Do they know your address, Prok? Do they threaten your RL? ‘Cause I’ve been there with right-wingers, and if they are, may I suggest a conversation with law-enforcement officials?
urizenus
Jul 7th, 2007
Wooot, a protest! If I can’t make it everyone be sure to take lots of snaps and fraps (even if it *is* peaceful).
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 7th, 2007
A few things;
Reading back over my comments I realized that my anger with Prokofy may have blinded me to a few things that was being said and may have caused me to miss things that needed to be said.
I don’t know if we are all talking about the same thing when it comes to SL land, because we can see it as RW land or as a website, and what is meant by responsible, which can mean you have a duty to take care of something or it can mean that you are held as culpable for or causing an action.
Griefing, when it involves invasive or disrupting scripts, is stealing. It takes time and money to repair things. It takes time away from SL. (Which sounds crazy, but if you have a limited time to be on, then a resident loses out if they aer forced to log.) And I’ve been lucky I guess that I’ve never seen too many true griefing attacks. But forcing people to rebuild or lose out on their SL is wrong. Griefing, when if falls under harassment, is also wrong because it takes away from someone’s enjoyment of SL. But harassment needs more than just not liking a community or a person, it needs to be more directed. I see a difference between coming to a sim where a resident lives to generate RL pictures of them, which is intimidation, and hosting a furry death camp, which is at the edge of taste satire.
I apologize if my anger helped deteriorate the discourse.
Sn4X15
Jul 7th, 2007
“Pictures are worthless, chatlogs are worthless”
Lol whut? Says the person who uses them consistantly to “prove” her points? (http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/07/attack-educatio.html)
Sn4X15
Jul 7th, 2007
nvm mixed up with reality
HazimGazovX
Jul 7th, 2007
The attack was mostly all of us meeting by chance and jonsey shooting red balls everywhere, nothing exciting. I’m not a racist, that’s what’s so insane about this.
HazimGazovX
Jul 7th, 2007
Oh yeah, all I did was put up 10x10x10 prims with hilarious propoganda on it, but whatever you find funniest.
HazimGazovX
Jul 7th, 2007
Prokofy Neva is now a meme.