The Disneyification of the Second Life

by Alphaville Herald on 26/07/07 at 1:09 am

Splashing bleach on SL – metaverse sanitized for your protection

by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk

Your world, your imagination – except for gambling

Robin Linden, v.p. for management and community development at Linden Lab, today announced an impressive new plan to sanitize gambling from the Second Life experience. While Robin was careful to point out that “Linden Lab does not offer an online gambling service”, and note that some real life locations and laws allow gambling, the metaverse game gods have now chosen to “actively enforce” a metaverse-wide gambling ban. This is a significant change from past practice.

Penalties for virtual betting parlor operators include suspension or termination of the accounts of residents involved “without refund or payment” – the virtual world equivalent of the death penalty. This would seem to mean that any and all assets – even assets accumulated through legal means – could be forfeit.

Since SL is largely an entertainment vehicle, the removal of gambling may have a significant impact on the in-world economy. This could be an unfortunate time for an economic shock, since a number of indicators suggest the virtual world’s economy could be tipping into a recession. The policy change could also impact Linden Lab’s bottom line. An expanding economy allows the Lab to print and sell more L$ virtual currency – a source of almost pure profit which can help counterbalance the large fixed expenses the metaverse service provider incurs running it’s server farm. A total gambling ban is almost certain to depress the demand for virtual land, which could impact the land tax or “tier” payments that players make to maintain their “investments” in virtual land.

In spite of these concerns, a number of residents found a silver lining to the news – with fewer players online, perhaps the grid will perform more reliably.

Long term observers of LL were surprised by the timing of the announcement. Generally, Robin Linden’s unpleasant surprise announcements come late on friday afternoons. Some speculated that this announcement may have been the result of impending legal action, although it is unclear what might have prompted this, since gambling has been a mainstay of the Second Life experience for years. However, in recent months, the Lab appears to have taken a less playful view toward the world, and has mounted a number of cleanup efforts on resident-created content.

We understand that Robin Linden does have significant experience with marketing disinfectant – based on previous work with Clorox. Hopefully the citizens that made the wold in Second Life will have an affinity for strong cleaners – but we have our doubts.

64 Responses to “The Disneyification of the Second Life”

  1. dandellion Kimban

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Anybody knows of a new place?

  2. anon

    Jul 26th, 2007

    I took the liberty to seek out a sim owner that loads up on gambling devices to ask a few questions about how they believe the new Linden Labs crackdown would play out for their business.

    The sim in question is Oasis Resort.

    I asked the sim owner if they would mind discussing how the latest rules of the road would affect their online business.

    I was told they were not interested in discussing the situations.

    My question is how is all of this going to impact the in-world community as a whole? Not necessarily just the idea of no gambling scripts/boxes etc.. But if there are other areas of concern that might affect business within SL due to the latest.

    It’s quite obvious that those creating and marketing slot machines and other gaming devices will be affected. And I believe that to be a fairly large area of business within SL. But I’m wondering what other facets of SL can be affected with this policy.

  3. Obscure Doodad

    Jul 26th, 2007

    An interesting development.

    Casino owners in SL, like those in RL, don’t really help the community. In fact, they probably do so less in SL than RL in that there is no boost to employment from SL casinos.

    They certainly pay property tax (tier), just like RL casinos, and to that extent their disappearance is likely going to hurt LL badly, but if we delineate LL from SL we may not have that horrible a situation. The lindens that used to walk away from SL in the casino owners’ pockets may circulate elsewhere now.

    Like so: People who moved RL money in world may have done that ONLY to gamble and if they won’t continue moving that money in world then the rest of the SL community will not see it. But the rest of SL wasn’t seeing it anyway. It was going into casinos. There will, however, likely be some who may have already budgeted it into their monthly RL expenses. People like that have that money to spend, and they may look elsewhere in SL to spend it.

    In general, netting these two groups together, I would suspect a slight improvement to in-world economics. SL’s non land industries will probably see an uptick in money floating around. But this will be a harsh blow to LL in tier (tax) revenue. The executive staff at LL can probably start downsizing their end of year bonus expectations.

  4. Hiro Pendragon

    Jul 26th, 2007

    How is it any shocker that Linden Lab would take action against clearly illegal activity? It’s long overdue.

  5. Anonymous

    Jul 26th, 2007

    “….since gambling has been a mainstay of the Second Life experience for years.”

    No you ass, it’s camping chairs that has been mainstay of SL for YEARS! Get a job.

  6. Apollo Case

    Jul 26th, 2007

    I think any replacement for SL based in the US is going to run into similar problems. This policy won’t kill Second Life, but it’s start of a death by a thousand cuts.

    Linden Labs really need to move to open source software for their servers, so that many people all around the world are running their own parts of the metaverse off their own computers. They also can look at moving their main servers offshore to a more Internet friendly jurisdiction.

  7. Coincidental Avatar

    Jul 26th, 2007

    The news part:
    “Linden Lab and Second Life Residents must comply with state and federal laws applicable”

    It seems that the first snails of the US law enforcement forces have arrived. Following the snail operations is great for Public Interest.

    Earlier the marketing of Second Lie has implied that RL laws do not apply in Second Lie. And many of the residents wished this to be the case, because they are criminals, as I and others have seen. And I have heard happy reports that even some members of the snail corps are criminals in SL. Well, that doesn’t arrive as a surprise to the Americans but to some others it does.

    Earlier Linden Lab announced unofficially that it will provide the standard spying tools for various governments. The announcement passed without any visible comments.

  8. Lewis Nerd

    Jul 26th, 2007

    I’ll certainly be doing all I can to help LL get rid of casinos. Laggy, ugly heaps of crap… don’t need ‘em.

  9. Warspite Fackler

    Jul 26th, 2007

    How about Real Life?

  10. steviedee

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Biggest mistake LL could make, will spoil a lot of peoples sl playing

  11. Ardic Danton

    Jul 26th, 2007

    There has been widespread questioning over on the blog of whether or not games like SLingo, Tringo, and sploders are now unplayable by the new policy. Since I can’t comment over there, I figured I’d drop my $.02 here.

    *ingo games use random number generation in their gameplay, but the WINNER of the game is determined by player ability, and not by a random number. The policy states that banned games must a) rely on random number generation to determine their winner AND b) pay out in lindens, *ingo games should be safe, as they meet only one of the criteria.

    I’d suspect that sploder balls could skirt this policy as long as everyone who paid into them got something back, thereby ensuring everyone ‘wins’ something.

    If the Labs would stop making these ridiculously broadly worderd policy changes, none of us would have to worry about whether or not we’re violating policy. The policy interpreted the way I am, makes the above games okay to play. Interpreted another way, my friend and I can’t sit down for a game of cribbage and wager L$5 on it, because we’re in violation of policy.

    And don’t even get me -started- on the econmoic impact this policy is going to have…

  12. Coincidental Avatar

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Good bye easy small scale money laundering and small crooks.

    Some commentators claimed that gamblers made money in the casinos. OMG says this Atheist.

    Some said that WSE etc. are gambling too. In theory WSE is not about gambling, but considering the recent fraud of over 12 000 USD and the number “listed companies” which were involved in gambling, there is indeed a chance involved.

    Dirk Felix knows SL business:
    “With some passing themselves off as real coprorations doing business in-world, you have a larger dilema of allowing these people to continue playing corporation when this is a federal crime in most if not all countries. I say enforce your TOS and elimaintae accounts from thoe who openly steal from the community.”

    I would assume that LL became liable when they did not enforce their TOS.

    “no more sploders & raffle balls”

    Bobo Decosta wakes up from Second Lie:
    “I feel misled, I thought second life was another world where real life laws didn’t apply.”

    Bobo is not alone. LOL

    Montana Corleone ponders the meaning of life:

    “companies don’t exist as a legal entity in SL, just individuals”

    “since you use the term Lindens, they are now deemed to have value, and are no longer worthless game tokens or software licenses”

    Smiley (Barry) confesses:
    “This is actually funny, as we have sploders on the teen grid”

    Storyof Oh blesses inaccurate land price statistics:
    “This is a biggie for owners of large plots relying on gambling income. Land values may drop like stones.”

    Well, which companies relying on gambling business sold themselves away on the “stock markets”.

    I took a look at the over hundred Kasinos listed in the search service after their listings in the before mentioned service were removed and noticed that many of them had ZERO traffic.

    Nulflux Negulesco spreads more rumors that Second Lie is profitable:
    “Anytime a company averages millions of dollars in annual profit the FEDS are going to be involved.”

    Vanessa Sakai innovates:
    “What about Lucky Chairs? They don’t require a bet so would they still be legal?”

    How about giving prizes to buying customers? “Buy a second hand casino equipment and win a prize!”

    Apollia Pirandello makes a tough question:
    “I was going to have a random giveaway of L$100 every Saturday to a random member of my Second Life group, as a way of attracting members – is that now forbidden?”

    Siryn Rosse, a woman (?) in agony:
    “Next thing you know, we won’t be able to charge fees for escort services.”

    Well, isn’t it phone(y) sex, not whoring.

    sirhc DeSanti, amateur nerd:
    “Publish server side code as open source and i’ll set up a region in my bedroom.”

    Server side code version 0.3 is publicly available. And obvious works much better than the LL version, thus I think that it is a service to the humankind to keep the LL version closet source.

    Samantha Chandler has a practical point of view:
    “you are gambling every time you try to rez a no-copy object”

    Tony whips Ameros:
    “Move your servers to Europe.”

    Missy Malaprop mixes words and truth:
    “nothing has changed, you have never been allowed to break the law using SL…”

    Only given an impression by the marketing. So something has changed.

    And here she does it again:
    “Escorts in SL aren’t really prostitutes, as talking (or typing) dirty to others isnt illegal for pay or not.”

    Peeps have been hysterical on escorts being underage. Actually they are often adults offering phone sex services to the underage.

    Harwood Hax has a warm heart:
    “….. support single mothers… tip your local stripper”

    Ceera Murakami compares his/her neighborhood to SL and SL loses:
    “I never have been interested in gmabling in SL. It was completely unregulated, and you have better odds of a fair game with the local street gangs playing craps in a slum than you had of getting a fair deal in SL. After all, the street gangs knew that they could get arrested and jailed if a PO’ed customer turned them in for running a rigged game. An SL casino owner would just laugh at you, as they walked away with your money.”

    Wake UP notices that SL casino owners were not as smart as the street gangs:
    “How many complaints have we had from residents that the owners of these gambling casinos arbitrarily neglected to provide payouts to otherwise legal winnings by residents? How many more were never reported..”

    All but one, which found its way to the LL’s ass?

    Harald Nomad is confused:
    “I have a trashcan that gives out a random item from its contents on click. Are trashcans illegal too?”

    No, if the random item in question is a SL hooker or a quality time moment with Prokofy Neva or other qualified bitch.

    “I can’t remember the last time a (RL) hobo was arrested for gambling because s/he took an item out of a trashcan.”

    Neither can I because the hobo is a thief. When Harald drops something in a trash can it belongs to him until it is collected and the ownership is transferred to the waste manager. (Yet again is it amazing how clueless Americans are about ownership.) If you don’t believe this, do a small test. Drop a nuclear missile to your waste can and when the police army arrives, try to claim that you don’t own it anymore.

    “dump the trash in the river from now on?”

    An environmental crime against the owner of the river. Things which are owned by nobody are owned by the state they reside. This includes the air you breath.

    inacentaur too trusts more his/her neighborhood crime gangs than casinos in SL and plays an amateur nerd:
    “I personally dislike casinos, as I have been cheated as both builder and scripter by a number of such organizations.”

    “Is it not politically incorrect to impose a US law on the international scene?”

    The US law is applied on a US company, LL.

    “If a US law is imposed on SL, then some kamikaze law from some third world country should also be up for imposing on SL. Where and what is the limit, or is the US given a special advantage?”

    It depends on the market. Cuba can ban SL and China effectually did.

    “2. Are we no longer allowed to gamble against ourselves in a private slot machine on some abandoned basement?”

    No, you are not.

    “3. If a bunch of friends gather together to watch a sports show, would they be disallowed the leisure of friendly gamble?”

    They are disallowed.

    “Will LL just get rid of the frand function?”

    Of course not.

    “Oh, no, but then we would httprequest the random seed. Would LL cut off httprequest?”

    Doesn’t matter even if you get the random seed from god.

    “c) Everyone’s money is their own property. The direction of money flow is their own discretion.”

    The direction of money flow was not in their own discretion when casinos refused to pay out the wins.

    Ulrich McMillan is innocent/naive:

    “Wasn`t there a chance to warn people at least some weeks before hitting casino owners (and the whole SLingo Community) with the hammer on the head?”

    Well, if you warn everybody early, then those in know don’t have the information advantage to dump their holdings or list them on the “stock markets”. I see that Ulrich doesn’t have the basic business skills required in Second Lie.

  13. Lisae Boucher

    Jul 26th, 2007

    What I would like to know is is a sploder and other such divide-the-pot items are still allowed.

    And I wonder what will be banned next. Or worse, maybe we will have to pay taxes over all the transactions that we make. And income taxes over every L$ that we earn. But I do understand why, which is that Linden Labs need to follow the US laws. Maybe they should just move the whole company to Europe or somewhere else.

    Then I do wonder how many people are actually playing those casino games. First of all, how big are your odds that you will win anything at all? All those slot machines and other gambling things can be completely rigged and there’s no guarantee that they will always pay out what has been promised. They could even be connected to each other so they will pay out more often to those machines where people are doing small bets while less often when people make big bets. There’s just no guarantee that those SL games are 100% honest.
    With all sploders people already seem to know that a small percentage will go to the owner of the sploder. Which makes those very popular gambling machines. You have 10 people paying L$ 10 each, 30% goes to the owner, 50% goes to the winner and the rest is divided over all others. That’s a nice profit if you have the sploder pay out every 10 minutes…

    One thing really worries me, though. Here we have Linden Labs enforcing local laws upon the whole World. Basically, you would have to approve these laws first before you can join Second Life. I think it would be better if organizations who provide world-wide services would only have to follow specific International laws. Or maybe it’s just up to the SL members to just call SL an independent state where no RL laws will apply.
    But that latter remark sounds so utterly naive… :-) Still, a world-wide set of laws would be better. Yet we will probably never get all nations to agree upon what should be this so-called international law and we’d probably end up with something as useful as the UN. Lots of talk but no power to take actions.

  14. Dire Allen

    Jul 26th, 2007

    I guess Second Life really is Serious Business.

  15. Dire Allen

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Well that OpenSIM idea is looking mighty better now.

  16. Capricorn Benavente

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Free at last of the ugly crap-cans!

  17. Tenshi Vielle

    Jul 26th, 2007

    If this kills my Slingo, I’m gonna be PIIIIISSSED.

  18. dandellion Kimban

    Jul 26th, 2007

    How about Real Life?”

    I have one, thanks for asking. I would like a neat on-line place to play in my spare time.

  19. humdog

    Jul 26th, 2007

    i wonder why the Lindens are so hell bent on suicide?

    they keep this up there will be no SL in a year.

  20. Inigo Chamerberlin

    Jul 26th, 2007

    You know, I can’t help thinking that, if there had been some sensible adults on the Board of Directors, they’d have seen this coming a very long time back – about the time the first casinos opened – and made the decision to either ban gambling then, or get their servers offshore.
    There are places in the Caribbean with amazingly good bandwidth (for a variety of reasons), amazingly ‘flexible’ laws about all sorts of things and, strangely enough, plenty of server hosting operations. Might even have been a popular place for the Linden Elite to visit too – just to keep an eye on things over you understand…

    And what’s the best they could come up with? Offices in Brighton, England! Another amazing Linden success. I shall watch events continue to unfold with interest.

  21. shockwave yareach

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Wow, look at all the land suddenly up for sale.

  22. Roger Met

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Lisa Boucher writes:
    With all sploders people already seem to know that a small percentage will go to the owner of the sploder. Which makes those very popular gambling machines. You have 10 people paying L$ 10 each, 30% goes to the owner, 50% goes to the winner and the rest is divided over all others. That’s a nice profit if you have the sploder pay out every 10 minutes…

    ummm..No, That’s not the case at all, as owner of several original spodders I can say the standard splodder pays NOTHING to the owner unless the owner puts in money like everybody else. Splodders are about generating traffic, not about profit in and of them selfs. The 50% to winner and rest to all others is completely bogus also, I have seen payouts as high as 70% (again because the owner skims NOTHING from the pot) and as low as 30% with the 2nd place getting 20% etc. The rest as you say at least getting something but that is the only true part of your entire statement.

  23. Obscure Doodad

    Jul 26th, 2007

    The claims that OpenSim are the answer to such issues do not make sense to me. How does LL make money if they distribute sims? Why does anyone pay them tier anymore at that point? The business model is based on tier. They gut their entire business model if they stop collecting tier.

  24. Bobby Troughton

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Hehe everyones going nuts with slipper slope theories (as usual). “OMG the world is going to end!”

    I doubt this. People do still attend and pay for “Disneyworld” even if it were to become such. I think the economy will probably dip then level, then again I’m no economist, nor do I care much for it. There’s still tons of sex, guns and religion to appease the masses and there always will be (with the exception of kiddie/ageplay porn, which never did or should have contributed to the economy).

    People actually will have to work for their money, and this scares people. All those flashing, spinnging ads and filled laggy sims and neighboring plots will vanish, to be taken over by people who can use the land better (or sex clubs haha). Some sploder reliant clubs might die, incapable of thinking of any other way to draw people in. Only the strong will survive.

    But it is no end of the world. There will just be less leeching newbies and casino/club zombie bitches. There is plenty to do that doesn’t involve gambling. I’ve made much more building and selling things then I have when I use to attend Extreme’s freebie slot events (RIP). Not to mention its possible to survive on freebies alone. So money is not needed to have a good time in sl.

    Of the bad reviews of SL on the net, I saw people complain the most of all the gambling and sex. Not that they were puritans, but people do desire other things to do and see and hope lands are not filled with only that. So with this one less vice it might actually draw more people in. People who will have to create for cash (or..*shriek*…fun!).

  25. SqueezeOne Pow

    Jul 26th, 2007

    They just keep setting themselves up to be bitten in the ass…first with the population stats fudgery and now with this.

    They’re giving L$ RL money value by implying that gambling is illegal by online gambling standards…since online gambling (as far as I always knew) was done with real money. Now that money can be taxable. There could be anything from virtual property taxes levied by governments to a sales tax depending on what laws a government comes up with.

    You should be paying taxes anyway if you are making a living off of SL but with guys like me who make just enough to have the game pay for itself any taxation of that money would make it not worth the effort anymore.

    I won’t miss the casinos by any means since they were mostly garbage and a waste of space. Fortunately for us guys that like buying land to put creative things on it, the exodus of gambling coupled with the influx of tons of land will make it easier for me to expand my empire!

    God save LL…or LL save the Queen…or something…

  26. Mark

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Hiro said:

    “How is it any shocker that Linden Lab would take action against clearly illegal activity? It’s long overdue.”

    Who was it that had the first casino in SL? Owned and operated by…. LINDEN LAB!

    Come on Hiro, I agree with you on the legality front, but this is tickling me. I sit here thinking back to my noob days in early ’03 and how LL gave that stuff nary a thought.

    Bright-eyed, naive Linden Lab. So I guess I am agreeing with you after all. They should have done something about it a long time ago. But as we know, LL LOVES to let the children have a toy for a good while, then step in WELL after the fact and take it away.


  27. Mark

    Jul 26th, 2007

    SqueezeOne said:

    “They’re giving L$ RL money value by implying that gambling is illegal by online gambling standards…since online gambling (as far as I always knew) was done with real money. Now that money can be taxable. There could be anything from virtual property taxes levied by governments to a sales tax depending on what laws a government comes up with.”

    ^^ Yeah that.

  28. Frankie Antonioni

    Jul 26th, 2007

    While I don’t gamble in SL, what happened yesterday has gotten me mad at LL. Whether it is casinos, ageplay, BDSM or what ever, if you are doing it on your land or sim, as long as you are not harming anybody or causeing harm to other peoples land or sims, then LL should stay out.
    So my proposal is don’t pay premium or tier. Now your response might be, well then they might take my land, let them, what are they going to do with it.

    Don’t buy any land or L$.

    If nobody buys land or L$, then this will punish LL and the Lindens and the Lindens need to be taught a lesson, that is stay out of what goes on between two people and crack down on scammers and griefers.

    I also think there should be a protest at Linden Village and at other Linden locations.

    If we allow LL to ban gambling, what will be next, furries, BDSM, or how about prostitution. We need to spread the word, if you are from another country and you agree with my views, then translate my post and post them on other SL newswebsites.

    Let the revolution begin.

  29. PF Philbin

    Jul 26th, 2007

    This is a dark day for me. And I am not even a casino owner.

    I am, however, a SL resident, and am dismayed and disheartened that RL is now invading SL to such a degree. And this is only the tip of the iceberg. A very slippery slope indeed is where Linden Lab is now poised.

    When I discovered SL only a couple of months ago, one of the biggest attractions for me was for the first time in many decades I felt truly free, unfettered by all the weight of government pressing down on me under the pretense of trying to protect me from myself. They seem to think they know what is best for me as an individual in just about every aspect of life. Should I happen to find something that works for me that is outside the scope of what they consider acceptable, then suddenly I am a criminal. Those two months of freedom I found in SL were very refreshing.

    But, big government has found its way into SL, and this is only the beginning of the process that will turn SL into a crashy laggy parody of RL.

    In those two months of precious freedom, I devoted a lot of time and money into developing a business. I learned LSL’s scripting language, and set headlong into developing a security system with sophistication on a level not seen before in SL security systems. I am proud of my work to date. Many features are included to help casino owners with many of the security problems I have noticed in casinos. Maybe the facts that most of those features are now useless, and the fact that my potential customer base has been significantly slashed in a single day, are additional factors causing this to be such a depressing day. Not to mention the fact that within 10 minutes of reading the blog I de-rezzed everything I own, placed my personal and business land for sale at a price the land bots would jump on, sold every linden I had for US dollars, and cashed out. Everything I had worked so hard for gone in a flash (literally).

    Just for the record, not all the scripts running the games in casinos are written simply to steal the hard-earned lindens of every customer. In fact, I recently spent a couple of days learning the traits of a particular roulette table in a particular casino. I could consistently earn about 1200 lindens a day there. That was a very refreshing break from all the camping I had been doing while trying to build a business, and I considered it a step up. So there I was, EARNING lindens using a SKILL I had developed. But the RL invasion of SL has decided that earning money using a skill was bad for me, pulled the plug, and threatened me with banishment if I don’t behave.

    The next step, of course, was to get my product into my beautiful new building and onto the market, but I don’t see that happening now. Earning a living in SL is just too dangerous. Ironically, it appears to be much more dangerous than spending time in a casino.

  30. Nacon

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Gambling is not a game nor a job…. it’s a retardation addiction.

    Same retardation addiction found in cracks and pots. …get a job or get lost.

  31. casino game maker

    Jul 26th, 2007

    What about the good owners, who do actually pay out. What about the makers of the game that invest countless hours and linden dollars into just making 1 game for the owners. I understand why linden labs did this obviously it was needed, but this wasn’t the way to do it, the way to do it would have been a phase out. Linden lab shuold have first attacked the game makers quietly then started taking out the bigger gaming places (ex. Gold Rush, Raiden Gold, Charms, Tao etc). As a maker i know most if not all of the other big makers and owners and i can vouch that they are actually really decent people. (well most of them there are some scumbags out there who I will not mention). Most want to see fair payouts and fair games and some uphold this better than others. In conclusion SL gaming in dead for now but will come back, wether this is some buddy putting some slots in their house and letting a few “friends” play, OR owners leaving sl for other games and developing here. The question is, is this just a hicough (spelling?) or has a real mass exodus from SL started as owners and players alike move to new platforms that don’t have such rules or rules that aren’t enforced.

  32. Cocoanut Koala

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Better argument re: Bingo, Slingo, et. al, copied from where I made this post on the SL forums:


    To be counted as gambling, the activity must involve the following three elements (I learned from Mulch, who knew it from determing whether radio contests were legal, and provided a link):

    . prize – what you win
    . chance – the element of chance, rather than pure skill
    . consideration – pay to play (as in, ante, or put money in a slot machine)

    All three elements must be present.

    My theory is that any game which does NOT require pay to play in order to win is therefore not gambling, and not illegal.

    Thus, we could still have Bingo, or Tringo, or any sort of contest in which there was some element of chance as long as “consideration” is not required. In other words, as long as you can play and win regardless of whether you pay to play or not.

    Thus, such games which depend entirely on voluntary pots and/or contributions from the host, but do not require “consideration” would be legal and not covered under the new LL policy.


  33. Dorky

    Jul 26th, 2007


  34. anon

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Well I couldn’t post this on Metaversed. It hung and wouldn’t let me.
    So I post here.

    Prokeva and the other person in this audio are obviously losing it. Now we discuss prostitution via TCP/IP as if real people were exchanging bodily fluids across the net for money. How absurd this audio is. To reflect on the prostitution, go about saying that it is more commonly known today as sex work, and then discuss how they believe it might be the next to be ousted by Linden Labs.

    Now we discuss pixel bumping and pose balls as if two consenting adults are engaging in a sex act. Along with their ideas that those promoting what is known as “Escort” services for hire within SL, or vitual prostitution is in fact real prostitution.

    I think a few people in SL have some bolts loose upstairs. They are so into their wonderful fantasies of virtual reality being somewhat real that they cannot differentiate between gambling being gambling whether on a real slot or a virtual slot, with real sexual intercourse vs. pose balls and 3D avatar pixel bumping. Money or not being exchanged, no real life sexual intercourse happens in Second Life.

    I wanted to listen to the audio discussing the gambling issues and Lindens response, included I get to hear about prostitution and how it might be the “Next to go”.

    If indeed it does go, it will only be for Linden Labs wanting to change the image of Second Life and what goes on in-world. Not because virtual prostitution is the same thing as real life prostitution. Insane I say.

  35. Calypso Bing

    Jul 26th, 2007

    quote: *ingo games use random number generation in their gameplay, but the WINNER of the game is determined by player ability, and not by a random number.

    Not true, many times I have walked away from the pc and came back a winner in Slingo.

    Most of the larger casino owners seen this coming months ago and cashed out while the cashing out was good.

    Girls pack up your thongs and high heels, hookers and escorts will be next.

  36. StallionSeven

    Jul 26th, 2007

    So surprised to see the SL Herald agitating against SL for complying with US law. Yes, it’s a big surprise that the Herald would take this tone.

  37. Solar Legion

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Well now – I’ve just seen a protest sign that really boils my blood.

    Said sign calls for Linden Lab to shift their focus to far more vague content (vague in the sense that there is no way to determine what falls under those categories), then it asks if anyone cares about – wait for it – the kids!

    Sorry, no sale. The Main Grid is a Grid for Adults and it has always been assumed that Adults are the ones using it. yep – some of ‘the kids’ will slip by.

    Well I for one really don’t care. No opne hired me to be a babysitter or a net nanny. No one has paid me to care if your child gets onto the Main Grid and sees something he or she shouldn’t! It’s your god damn kid, you pay attention and stop slacking off.

    There’s no excuse – none whatsoever – to force everyone else to do your job for you.

  38. Overcast

    Jul 26th, 2007

    “the virtual world equivalent of the death penalty”

    Yes – for Linden Labs – that would be correct.

  39. Uccello Poultry

    Jul 26th, 2007

    No more gambling. hmmm. Listening to some it seemed that visiting the casino was the only activity that SL offered. So what will people do now? Create, explore, learn, socialize, play. Or leave. We aren’t forced to use SL. Cash out, go home, and find an RL casino. Or stay and find the true magic of a Second Life.

  40. Mura Tomsen

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Woo, I always knew that Robin is such a cool Linden: exciting a whole business branch / SL community with one badly formulated announcement. No warning, no discussion in before – just declaring “You are banned – bye”. Another mile stone in her crusade on forced disneyification of SL.

    Personally, I don’t like gambling at all, its a pain in the neck with all the spamming and fraud. But much less I like the way Linden deals with it’s residents. The harsh measures will inspire a lot of fear and uncertainty in other “undisneylike” communities in SL. When all freedom is gone: What sense does SL make?

  41. Arden Voss

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Let’s materialize the concept of data havens. We might need a platform that isn’t ruled by a corporation wanting to adher to *all* legislation of *all* countries. Move servers elsewhere…

  42. Timothy Zapotocky

    Jul 26th, 2007

    This undermines the business model not just of casinos but of clubs in general. And most of the public places up here are clubs, as much as we all like to pretend that SL is primarily a platform for corporate brochureware sites and for virtual distant-learning classrooms.

    The gambling devices at clubs serve as a social lubricant, and as a means of bringing outside L$ into the clubs. And just about every club has sploders, slingo, etc. (Those last two games havent been specifically banned yet, but they do seem to fall afoul of the new policies.)

    Even as things stand, the vast majority of dancers’/DJs’ tips come from other performers. Even though non-performers only seldom think to tip.. they do leave money behind which the owners can share with the staff. And most of the civilians who do tip are civilians who have gotten into the habit of actually spending (and sometimes getting) Linden bucks, and even though gambling devices are kind of a ripoff, they do get their users into the habit of spreading money around.

    It gets them out of the mode where they arrive with a white (or purple, depending on gender) T shirt and a L$100 bill in their pocket… never changing either one.

  43. dandellion Kimban

    Jul 26th, 2007

    I just don’t understand that so many people doesn’t get it: It is not about whether you like gambling or not, it is not about whether gambling is idiotic way to have fun and/or spend/get money…. It is about YOUR freedom of choice to gamble or not. It is about YOUR freedom to choose how you are going to live your (second) life and what you are going to do with YOUR time and money.
    Now better? Or should I try again?

  44. Ernestt

    Jul 26th, 2007

    wow , i got more freedom in my real life than in my second life

  45. DaveOner

    Jul 26th, 2007

    The “no warning” argument is tired and completely wrong. Did you not see the banning of gambling ads a while back? Did you not see the banning of sexual ageplay ads before they moved to make sexual ageplay banned?

    Anyone who pays attention did.

    Plenty of companies listed on the WSE were paying attention. Their site has a few announcements from such companies showing they are complying and adjusting their businesses to suit.

    This “Disneyfication” like is bullshit. Sorry!

  46. SLJustice

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Dedicated to the virtual freedoms of avatars everywhere.


  47. Ginsburg Burroughs

    Jul 26th, 2007

    This reminds me of the crackheads and junkies living in the house up the street from me in RL…

    Every time the cops show up they all try to implicate each other and drag other neighbors into their mess. I hear them out there yelling “Yeah, I was selling crack – but SHE’S a damn junkie leaving needles laying around…” etc., etc., etc…

    So now LL has a cop at their house and they’re throwing blame around and trying to misdirect the focus to others whose misdeeds they allowed and encouraged (most assuredly abetted) in their house since day one.

    You can’t allow criminals to proliferate for years and suddenly say you had nothing to do with it all of a sudden. This type of snake-like thought pattern has a tendency to spin around and bite you on the ass faster than you can jump out of the way.

    I think LL is in for a real-life legal reality check soon, and it will not be very pleasant at all for anybody.

    I’m gonna walk on gilded splinters here while watching from a distance how this drama unfolds. Although I’m just a small time merchant (making barely enough $Ls to pay for my store area in SL), as soon as I see the cop cars pull up to SL, I’m hauling ass before they have a chance to point any fingers at me and try to say it’s somehow *MY* fault!

    Next thing you know we’ll *ALL* be subpoenaed to show up in a TEXAS DONKEY COURT to defend ourselves against things that went on inside Linden Lab’s servers there.

  48. TP

    Jul 26th, 2007

    Watch as Second Life quickly become the next Hotline client of the 21st century. If you have been using the interweb since AOL and Comupserve dial-up you will notice the Government agencies and now credit card companies when allowed will always find a way to either tax, profit, or destroy anything free for the people.
    For you younger net people think Napster.

    The fact is good scripters in SL make games, it’s what they went to school for and if they can make a non lagged out game as are most card or gambling type games work well they can sell them and maybe pay some of the rent for it.

    Now what can they do? Sell themselves out to a virtual consultant company and build idiotic one off builds of virtual hyper events for big business like car companies, shoe companies and whatever.

    Welcome to Terms of Service online people!

    Linden Labs made the biggest mistake they could have possibly made when they started the Lindex.

    When third parties traded Linden dollars it was not on the labs back, now it is, because they process credit and debit cards, which is why anything related to a win, lose situation or gaming is now banned.

    Mastercard says bow down and bend over and they (LL) for financial reasons are taking it up the pipe, with the entrepreneurs giving the reach around.

    Is it taxation? Yep
    Is it a bill tacked onto a military spending bill that passed over a year ago? Yep

  49. Myrrh Massiel

    Jul 26th, 2007

    /me smirls and shakes her head. Next?

  50. JimBean

    Jul 27th, 2007


    Someday in the not too distant future, LL will open source the servers, and there’ll be plenty of illicit grids. They’ll be hosted in countries with more reasonable laws. Etc.

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