Former JLU Member Speaks Out
by Alphaville Herald on 04/08/07 at 6:04 pm
anti-griefer Justice League Unlimited threatens privacy and act like griefers
by Nikola Shirakawa ex-JLU member
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which – Animal Farm
Many people on SL have run into this group. The Justice League Unlimited – or JLU – has become one of the most well-known anti-griefer groups in the metaverse. Perception of the JLU differs depending on who you ask. Residents that have requested JLU help say they are every bit the superheroes they role play. The alleged goons and griefers such as the “Patriotic Nigras” – or PN – claim the JLU are sim-crashers that fire doomsday weapons at their enemies. Some land owners, such as Artemis Fate, say the JLU are a detriment to peace on the grid.
Before serious discussion about the JLU can be undertaken, it is important to know that not all of their actions are entirely public, and some of these shady choices could paint a very different picture indeed. To the public, they just swoop in to distress calls, talk down a griefer, or, in the most extreme cases, they call down the Lindens. Nothing wrong with that, right? But these are just the actions the public sees. What goes on when they retreat to their locked down sim, Asimov Park, the real story begins.
the JLU database never forgets
Let’s start by discussing the JLU Brainiac device. This little bot, attached to their avatars, connects to an external database that maintains a running record of avatars they have come in contact with. And I mean every avatar. Part of the script in their equipment automatically records the names of every Second Life resident, griefer, civilian, or even Linden. That’s right, if you’ve been next to them, they have your user name, and a unique key that acts on a similar level to that used by the Lindens to issue permabans.
An analysis of the script identifies the website, http://w-hat.com/name2key, where this key is obtained. That’s right, the JLU contacts the the W-Hat site to connect names with unique keys. Who gave them permission to collect screen names and keys like this? And what do they use this information for? Among other things, residents they have categorized as griefers, be they known PN alts, or just newbies who did not yet understand shooting people was against the rules, are scanned for at all times. If, by coincidence, one of these newbie shooters walks within range of a JLU member, the JLU member is immediately informed of this presence. Right to privacy? Not when the JLU is around.
Speaking of privacy, consider the JLU campaign against the PNs. Many feel the PN kids are a bad element, responsible for harassing users and crashing sims. With this as justification it seems the JLU sees no problem with its own sort of harassment, and more. On the external Brainiac database, there is a veritable treasure trove of personal information, especially when it comes to two of the PN leaders, N3X15 and mootykips. The JLU has currently on file for both of them, real life names, addresses, phone numbers, and ISP’s. For mootykips, they even have a photograph. This information is freely accessible to their group. As justification, the JLU says that one of their members, Kara Timtam, had her information spread on the PN boards. Talk about fighting griefing with griefing. It must be said that they have not personally contacted either of these people, but Kalel Venkman has confessed to harassing Verizon, N3X15′s service provider, in an attempt to shut him out of the Internet. Going beyond this to the PN as a whole, the JLU routinely listens to their IRC channels, and their Ventrilo and Skype channels, as well as every website they can find connected to the PN in the slightest way.
Of course, these kinds of wiretaps and information data mining without a warrant is more than reminiscent of the much derided Patriot Act. But there is one difference. The Patriot Act is used by sworn officers of the law, with a little thing called a badge. They have been granted the authority to do so by the an RL government. Who gave this authority to a bunch of roleplay superhero wannabes? When you have contact with a police officer, you have a right to get their badge number, and they can be reported to higher authorities. What does the JLU have? A bunch of comic book avatars, and self-appointed power. That’s right. They were given their power by themselves. When asked about the legality of these actions, Kalel Venkman said. “I’ve thought about that too, but I really want to get these guys, and I think you do too.”
It seems that Mootykips obtained information directly off of Venkman’s public web page, including, free to the world, an online resume, a photograph, and a contact number. This information was of course posted to the PN’s own wiki, and the Encyclopedia Dramatica for a short while. But as of recently, in an attempt to scare these children, Venkman has redirected the link to his online resume to the Department of Justice’s Computer Crimes reporting page. When it comes to dealing with the kiddies, Venkman is all for violating privacy, scanning the whois domain information. But when it comes to his public web page, obtaining documents he leaves open to the public is suddenly the most unforgivable crime. And that my friends, is the definition of hypocrisy. It seems Jor-El left one thing out of his teachings. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
young superman
Kalel Venkman signed up to Second Life midway through 2006. One of his earliest actions was to join a roleplaying group, the JLA, or Justice League of America. Right away, he wanted to be Superman, and set out to do just that. Shortly after, within a few weeks, according to Kalel’s own account, he and others were co-opted into being real superheroes, dealing with griefers. Most of this old JLA group obviously was not interested in such past times. What was the right action in this case? That’s right, kick them out, and hide the group, so no one could ever use it again for role playing, and create a new group just for anti-griefing. Several months later, some newbies who were not approved for Kalel’s standards to use the name of Justice League created their own JLU group. Once again Kalel began conniving the people into his group for the purposes of shutting the other down. This led to Kalel and a few of his flunkies singlehandedly creating every single possible Justice League Derivative and hiding them away, so no one else could be Justice League. Why? So no one hurts their good name. Never mind that not one of the JLU is a DC employee or affiliate. Sure, they are all flagrant copyright violators, but they have a duty to make sure no other comic book fans that they may dislike use their good name.
Green Lantern Core scorned
This hatred of competition has even spread to older more established groups such as the Green Lantern Core led by Cid Jacobs. Kalel has expressed designs on creating his own power rings to drive out the GLC. There is already a hidden group title in the JLU known as JLU Green Lantern. The JLU’s most recent development, the multi-tool known as Solaris, was explicitly mentioned as competition to the GLC power rings, with Kalel on record as saying “Keep in mind, this is more progress than the GLC’s rings have had in six months”. On the Brainiac wiki, there are dozens of archived GLC internal documents, including the groups parliamentary decisions and the operating manual for the power rings. It should come as little surprise, then, that the JLU is not on the GLC’s approved Green Lantern group list.
database-assisted shopping for Linden justice
Venkman clearly has desires for the JLU to become the Linden’s official police force. Brainiac’s functions as of May, 2007 have the ability to keep tabs on Lindens. At a glance, the JLU has the ability to see which Lindens are online, without even being connected to the grid. In addition, they actually rank the Lindens on said database, choosing to pester those they feel are most likely to respond to them. Basically, to the Lindens that chose to not recognize their self-appointed authority, they are not good Lindens, and as such must blackballed for “unreliability”.
This blackballing to those that don’t recognize the fictional authority of the Justice League has even spread to large landowners such as Artemis Fate. Artemis Fate, who is in charge of the popular destination Nexus Prime among others, took offense at the JLU dealing with griefers in her territory. After she told me she would not tolerate anti-griefer forces, I immediately told Kalel that we were not to go there. Kalel of course, could not accept this, and had to force his views onto Artemis, who of course, was not reciprocal. This policy of intruding onto sims where they have not been invited has led to such events as a mass banning of JLU members from a Gorean sim last April. One of he newest features of SL has been to allow forwarding of Abuse Reports to Estate Managers on private islands, in lieu of forwarding to the Lindens. Rather than respect the wishes of the Estate Managers that have this policy in place, Kalel has ordered all JLU to retreat to JLU territory to file Abuse Reports.
“The problem with anti-griefers,” says Artemis Fate. “is they always turn into griefers themselves.”
While it is true that the JLU has never fired an orbiter, or a doomsday weapon, that does not mean they have not carried out similar actions. Take the case of Loki Buaku. Loki Buaku quickly made himself an enemy of the JLU, and as such, made it his mission to take them out. He did not undertake this mission by grabbing a gun and shooting up any JLU he could find, but by creating groups and spreading propaganda against them. Not against the ToS in the slightest. But this did not stop the JLU from acting against him. Upon finding his RP character was supposedly 15 years old, Kalel led a charge of JLU members to fire off Abuse Report after Abuse Report against him for this unforgivable grievance.
JLU swarming Woodbury University
This vendetta behavior has even spread to sim owners. Take the case of Woodbury University. This sim, as you may know, was shut down by the Lindens for being a griefer base. What most people are not aware of, however is this was largely a charge lobbied by the JLU.
Within two days of learning of the site’s existence, the JLU was there in force to examine the site. Calls were made by Kalel to MichaelFrancis Linden, a Linden in personal contact with Venkman. Official JLU policies included swarming all places where their griefers were seen, and spying on their chat channels. Sometimes, they even went as far as dropping large invisible prims on the property to keep the greifers from entering their own builds. Keep in mind, this was not just in a sandbox that they happened to be, this was private property under the ownership of the so called greifers, and the JLU were the encroachers in this case. Not that private property holds much weight to Venkman and the JLU.
does the end justify the means?
After seeing the full extent of the executive decisions and behaviors of the JLU, can much of a difference between them and the griefers they oppose actually be found? Their eye for an eye, fire with fire tactics, end up bearing little distinction form greifing itself. In the end, does the end really justify the means. Is it worth throwing away and sense of constitutionality, legality, privacy, or free expression, just to stop the grefiers? The majority of SL citizens have never seen a PN face to face. They have no real need for the superheroes in their day to day lives. But I’m willing to bet that a large chunk of them might have an issue with being in a database without their permission. I’d be willing to bet there’s quite a few people out there who would love to roleplay as Superman, or Batman, or Wonder Woman. There are even people that disagree with the JLU’s actions on a political basis. But if the JLU had their say, all of these groups would be silenced, and stricken from the grid. Does the L in JLU stand for Lords?
Reg Baxter
Aug 6th, 2007
quote from reality >
“Reg – you have provided no proof. saying you’ve done it is not enough.
Link it, provide a log, whatever.
So far – I see no proof from you.”
Awwwww you don’t trust me? I am deeply hurt – no matter, being unable to abuse the avatar key means there are no hard fugures, if there were that would mean it could be abused. The lack of hard data showing damage is the proof. So once again I am right you are wrong.
Until you can provide proof that there is a possible way to use an Avatar Key for abuse or even to cause the most minor of damage … Don’t bother responding.
Hewee Zetkin
Aug 6th, 2007
I’m glad so many people are interested in what we do and how we do it, and similarly interested in making Second Life a better place, less vulnerable to malicious actions. For those curious about Brainiac, I’d be happy to share that with respect to griefers and citizens it is an information sharing mechanism, similar to a group forum or bulletin board. I see some concern about how BanLink is used in some cases, but I’m sure everyone is aware of what a useful and indespensible tool it–and other systems like it–is, given the massive and continually growing size of SecondLife. Brainiac serves as a general means of sharing group information, just as BanLink serves as a means of sharing simple banning choices with brief source and description data tied in.
I highly encourage the rest of you–whether or not you are interested in participating directly with the Justice League–to consider making use of such tools yourselves. There is simply too much information useful to groups, land owners, estate managers, and others. It is far better to organize and share such data than to continually let it fall through the cracks. And, of course, anyone interested in determing griefing through social means and sticking to the TOS would be highly encouraged to be as informed as possible about who and what they are dealing with, so that they can be as proactive and effective as possible in their actions.
Best of luck,
Hewee Zetkin
Brainiac System Admin
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 6th, 2007
Well said, Hewee. The actual mechanical system of keeping a bit of information on griefers, is certainly a good thing and not a problem. The beef i have is when the information gathered is done so in an illegal manner, but, when gathered in a legal and constitutional manner, there is certainly a good use for it. I applaud you for encouraging being as informed as possible, as this is all I seek to do is to put out the information I know, which, while it may have some flaws, also has some truths, which when combined with other sources does paint a complete picture.
As for you sean, you said ti yourself:
“Slander is defamation delivered in a transitory manner”
Something you say in chat is, by it’s nature, transitory, and as such, the definition of thier term is valid. Libel applies to published, fixed web pages, such as this, that the records, barring any other circumstances, will not be deleted in the near future. Chat, however, in most cases is not stored, and not publicized, as such, it is transitory, and hence, slander.
I would also like to stress that, yes, there are some mistakes in here. I acknowledge that. If you read my comments, where my information has proven incorrect, I acknowledge it, and apologize. But the vast majority, including all the JLU stuff, is true, and I have even been given further proof by other people of incidents I myself was unaware of.
Anonymous
Aug 6th, 2007
from my last encounter with Kalel venkman on an article a while back, he started accusing me of being a PN right and left the instant I disagreed with him on ANYTHING.
“DONT SUCK MY DICK? YOU’RE A PN.”
Personally I dont want ANY group that fancies themselves above the law near me or trying to “protect” me from griefers. I’ll protect myself. Especially if I own land, I can ban them or keep them out as I see fit, but no, this goes against Kalel’s quest for complete power over the game, not even landowners have rights in his view, they all will submit before him.
If I ever as much as see him or kara timtam or any JLU filth, which at this point I find lower than the PN even (and I dont care much for them) on any land I own, I will ban them and will AR them if they as much as try anything in retalitation.
If I had to pick between a PN and a JLU member, I’d more than likely choose the PN, at least his actions would just result in slight annoyance where the JLU member would disrupt my gameplay moreso than any of the bad guys because they try to not only control the game, but ruin anyone and everyone that gets in their way of control. Kalel seems to fancy himself next to Philip when it comes to power.
You all would be better off being a for-hire service than obnoxious immature comic book nerds that invade and push their way into everyone’s business. If someone like you did that shit to me in real life, I’d probably shoot you the instant you stepped foot in my house.
Wanna protect the grid from griefers? start by going the fuck away, you assholes.
Go ahead, accuse me of being a PN you pathetic assholes. I dare you. You’ll just prove me right.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 6th, 2007
I would also like to state that I am growing tired of those JLU members who, in lieu of intelligent debate of any kind, whether by refusal to look at any of my points or the more likely possibility that they do not actually have a way to prove me wrong, instead choose to make personal attacks, and vicious insults, as you can see by Sean Petit above. This trolling war being conducted by the JLU is not something I will stand for, and if it continues I will fiel charges against the JLU webmaster, who shall remain nameless in respect both to privacy and to the disclosure clause of the ToS, which, though they may not actually apply to off-world business, I will still choose to uphold.
Strify
Aug 6th, 2007
Lawdy lawdy this drama is so EMMMM EMMM GOOD!
mootykips
Aug 6th, 2007
I am in Texas! I am Jake Braum! I am in the Puget Sound (literally, me and N3X15 and Watermill are living in a yellow submarine!) I live in California! I’ve boinked Tizzers! I’m 22! I’m 14! I’m 42! I’m Angel Fluffy!
VOTER 5 IS NOT JUST HAZIM! Hazim is really the name of my cat. My cat is Voter 5. Wouldn’t that be a hoot?
You SL kids are so cute, thinking you can know who mootykips is. In Japanese bunraku cinema, stagehands dress up in black, expecting the audience to look past them to the drama unfolding before them. It is the reverse with PN. Everyone is out there but me.
Mudkips Acronym is not just a man. Mudkips Acronym is a philosophy. As I leave, others take my place. So it goes.
“So good then, maybe the JLU will keep the PN occupied”? We know we have spies. We don’t give a damn. The JLU wishes they could do what we do.
They can’t.
They won’t.
Nothing they do can stop us; because WE DON’T OPERATE IN SL.
Believe it or not, as most all of you seem to have this “what happens in SL, stays in SL” mindset, we don’t give a damn about being orbited.
We are the only ones that can shred through hundreds of alts in a day because we don’t take your game seriously, we break it.
Can your JLU do THAT?
We don’t waste time with former programmers making pretend they’re superheroes because of some childish inferiority complex. Let their vast databases of publically accessible but hilariously incorrect information of the Elitist Superstructure of TPN, “the Nastiest Griefer Association in all of the Vast Metaverse of Second Life, Internet 3.0,” shine for a thousand years to enlighten my children and grandchildren with its utter absurdity.
“…both role-playing Superman vs Shaft.
”
Shut yo mouth! Oh, you’re just talking about Shaft.
P.S.: The Elitist Superstructure approves of this news article. Truly, it was VIP quality!
Yiffy Yaffle
Aug 6th, 2007
I know who is who, and i just want them to know they will never bring me down. I’ve been in SL long enough to know how to respond to griefer threats and actions. So far all that Angel Fluffy can do to me is talk shit and try to turn people against me, and he has failed because of my reputation and good deeds from the past 3 years. I will continue to do them because it builds character, trust, friendship, and makes people happy. The slander he tries to spread against me does emotionally bother me because of human emotions, but it will never become a real threat since he has no story to back it up. I just want him to STFU and leave me alone. Since he continues to slander me to his groups and proactive security friends (who are my friends too), it only proves him to be a griefer. Because thats what hes doing. The fact that he has his grasp over the JLU only makes things worse for them. If kalel knew what was good for JLU’s reputation they would take action against him. I have nothing against the JLU members themselves because they simply just want to continue doing what they think is right. They don’t know all of this because kalel barely tells them anything. When i was in JLU, i remember Howee. Was a good person IMO. As the others.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 6th, 2007
I’m not even going to dignify that foolishness with a response.
Reality
Aug 6th, 2007
“Awwwww you don’t trust me? I am deeply hurt – no matter, being unable to abuse the avatar key means there are no hard fugures, if there were that would mean it could be abused. The lack of hard data showing damage is the proof. So once again I am right you are wrong.
Until you can provide proof that there is a possible way to use an Avatar Key for abuse or even to cause the most minor of damage … Don’t bother responding.”
Sorry Reg – no dice. Provide the proof that you have experimented and come up with no way whatsoever to abuse or cause any damage whatsoever using an Avatar’s Key or retract your statement and cease posting responses.
No further excuses Reg – show your work or go home.
Incidentally, I don’t have a problem admitting I may be wrong – however kid, you’ve shown nothing to prove your point whatsoever, all I see are words on a screen.
Want to prove you are right? Show your work.
Oh – by the by? I’d call the use of an Avatar Key as a means of building any kind of automated weapon to be used in non-combat SIMs (such as an automated blitz projectile system) an Abuse. As has been pointed out already, weapon systems require this information to target a specific avatar.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 6th, 2007
mootykips foolishness, not Yiffy’s. lol
Reg Baxter
Aug 6th, 2007
> – As has been pointed out already, weapon systems require this information to target a specific avatar.
Reality, Weapons of that type need only your name you silly little boy, or is it girl? still not clear on that.
Your name IS equal to your avatar key, YOU are the one who first made the claim about damage caused can be caused by a key, YOU are the one required to prove it. I did my side of the equation even though I was not required to. Time to put up or shut up buddy boy/girl.
You seem to be ignoring my last sentence – “Until you can provide proof that there is a possible way to use an Avatar Key for abuse or even to cause the most minor of damage … Don’t bother responding.”
Please respect that and until you have something of substance to say, no more responding allowed from you young man, or woman, whatever. You are wrong I am right pretty much sums it up.
SqueezeOne Pow
Aug 6th, 2007
I, for one, have never been involved (to my knowledge) in any way with any of the above mentioned groups…mostly because I have the superhuman ability to sense, diffuse and/or avoid pointless drama. But enough about me…
I really don’t see where the JLU is getting the idea that they’re needed or justified. Just about ALL of SL is owned by a resident or group of residents. The only place you have any business doing this in would be on one of the empty “protected land” streets or oceans, in sandboxes (but if you go to one of those you should be expecting trouble anyway!) and in areas where the owners have specifically OK’d the JLU to hang out there.
I’d have absolutely no problem with the concept of the JLU if they had their own sim or group of sims to police and stayed within those sims.
In fact, I used to be under the impression that the JLU just came when called and helped n00bs figure out how to fill out ARs. If that was actually the case they would be fine in my book…and probably many others’ as well.
Reality
Aug 6th, 2007
reg, you have provided no proof – simply empty words. do not respond at all or retract your claim until you can provide your proof.
Simple as that. Until then you have ‘proved’ nothing kid.
Is it that you have nothing to provide whatsoever? Guess what? That does not fly – period.
You have ignored my closing each and every time.
Either provide your proof or go away child.
Oh yes – you call for any form of ‘respect’ will not be heeded: You have not earned it yet.
One final time kid: Provide your proof, show your work, or cease responding.
Until you provide your proof – I’ll keep demanding it.
Anonymous
Aug 6th, 2007
“Really, if they want to go around playing Superhero, and policing the areas that don’t have admin (like the sandboxes, god knows there’s been play of perpetrated “anti-griefer” groups developing out of there) and simply sending in abuse reports when they see griefers, fine whatever, but when they start entering other people’s areas, practicing their own self-envisioned authority in it, and diverting these problems that sim admin can handle to their group that can’t, it becomes irritating and only exacerbates things.”
Agreed. And this is precisely why the JLU do NOT go into people’s areas where we have not been invited to. I can’t speak for other police groups but since I’ve joined the JLU we have been reminded repeatedly to not go where we have not specifically been invited. We mainly patrol Linden owned sandboxes and welcome areas and respond to emergency calls directly from citizens who actually do want us there.
“In fact, I used to be under the impression that the JLU just came when called and helped n00bs figure out how to fill out ARs. If that was actually the case they would be fine in my book…and probably many others’ as well.”
This is exactly what we do as well as patrol the Linden owned sandboxes.
I don’t know where the misconception that we “grief the griefers” originated from but it’s completely false. All we do is use the handy dandy little tool that all SL citizens have…the Abuse Report. It’s common knowledge that 4 or 5 ARs will get Linden attention and we use that to our advantage when we can.
I won’t get into the whole ridiculous argument here but I know what I stand for and what I want to accomplish while in the JLU and that is primarily to be helping people enjoy the sandboxes and welcome areas without having to be subjected to griefing attacks. Remember that many new people to SL hang out in those areas and do not know how to protect themselves from such attacks. Most of them are grateful for our presence.
Nikola, I don’t know you but I do know that there are many fine people in the JLU and you are hurting them as well with your “expose.” Did you even think about them before taking action?
Aree Lulibub
JLU
Hewee Zetkin
Aug 6th, 2007
SqueezeOne Pow,
You’ve hit very close to the truth, in fact. The JLU is very interested in helping residents learn to protect themselves, both by being informed and by using the tools (ARs, parcel and estate tools, security systems, etc.) available to help prevent trouble. We’re really just concerned citizens, and act more like a neighborhood watch than a police or mercenary force. Far from encouraging people to circumvent landowners, we try to help them establish communications with landowners and estate owners/managers, we work very closely with many landowners and groups themselves, and we work very hard at respecting the wishes of residents in the community.
We are interested in enhancing the security and security tools in Second Life so that they may be utilized by the rest of the Second Life community directly, and in shoring up the holes that make grid attacks, remote attacks, and many other exploits possible. Where possible, we help residents to help themselves. We work at enhancing communications between residents and landowners, group leadership, and Linden Labs. And yes, when we see abuse that obviously harms the experience of other SL residents or the grid as a whole, we use the channels established by Linden Labs to report it and try to keep it from continuing, as I would hope the rest of you would too. When it is likely that residents or groups may want to ask us for some kind of help again in the future, we provide a means for them to contact us when they wish to; not instead of talking to landowners and LL, but in addition to, as we are interested in providing whatever help we can as peers and fellow residents.
And most of us happen to love running around in colorful and recognizable costumes too, that represent the kind of heroic nature we strive toward and would like to see in not just ourselves but all residents.
Thank you for your interest, and have fun out there!
Loloz Oh
Aug 6th, 2007
FULL DISCLOSURE: I’m a casual member of the FIC (I have a life and therefore can’t be logged in 40 hours a week), LAWL ZOMG
First off, Nikola your article is poorly articulated and a lot of what you’re saying is based on hearsay. You’d be helping yourself out a great deal if you’d provide some evidence to back up the stuff you’re saying. Instead of tossing around copy/paste chat logs and going on about past events that may or may not have happened, how about some screenshots (I know right, what a novel concept).
Anyway, at least THIS poorly written article is better than the crap the herald has been churning out recently.
Avatar keys. Yes they’re available to all thanks to the brilliant LSL design and the generosity of people like w-hat. Yes they can be used for malicious purposes just like most of the functions in LSL. Anyone who knows what they’re doing can make deviant scripts to perform a variety of tasks. The statement that Avatar UUIDs and Avatar names are linked 1 to 1 is true however slightly misleading. There are several LSL functions that require an avatar name OR an avatar key specifically. This exclusivity means the a function that needs a key WON’T WORK if you just have the avatar name and vice versa. This is the reason why thins like the w-hat database are useful.
Malicious things you can do with a key (LOL HOW DO YOU DEFINE MALICIOUS?).
-Online/Offline indicator. Want a 24/7 readout of whenever your arch-enemy is online? Using a key you can easily script an object or HUD to accomplish this task. I’ve personally built both and I used them frequently.
-Homing missiles. You can have weapons/objects/whatever that lock on to people and follow them anywhere even across sim borders. This can also be done using the avatar’s name.
-IM/Notecard/Chat spam. you can do it with keys, you can do it with names. You can do it all because LSL is poorly designed.
The root of this problem is LL’s stupid and insecure implementation of LSL. Don’t get me wrong, I love to abuse the build in features of their scripting language. My point is you should get mad at LL for making things like this possible. Griefing groups would actually be helpful ways to tweak the code into a more secure language IF LL actually cared (hint: they don’t).
All in all this debate winds down to Nikola being a whiny baby, the JLU being a bunch of stuck up douche bags and the PN continuing to be a voice of reason in the sad, sad world that SL is becoming.
Lastly, everyone knows that Marvel heros are WAAAAAAAY cooler than DC heros.
Artemis Fate
Aug 6th, 2007
I agree SqueezeOne Pow
I also think, if the JLU wants to make itself less sinister-seeming, then they should open their Brainiac Wiki for public viewing. If it’s all just public information on greifers they’ve collected over time, then they should have nothing to worry about, and in fact, if their mission statement is to help people deal with greifers, then giving them the information about it would be enormously helpful no?
Otherwise I can only imagine it’s full of plots and schemes of absorbing smaller groups, shutting up dissenting land owners, and the collection and publication of private data.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 6th, 2007
If any SL Citizens take issue with these actions, and wish to know which SL citizens are in the JLU to avoid them, IM me in world, and I will be more than happy to send along a member list. This is all I will do, however, as anything aside from SL usernames from an SL group, unconnetcted to any real life information, would be a violation of the discretion clauses of the ToS.
N3X15
Aug 6th, 2007
maybe hewee should also fly around on a giant poweredge and give IT lectures on how to allow random people to be logged in as the previously logged in user on a mediawiki installation so that people can grab shit off of your “private” wiki and laugh hysterically about it
that would be an awesome power
Anonymous
Aug 6th, 2007
Artemis, I must say that is a perfect idea. Good going.
Loloz, I am not using chat logs, I am using ym personal experience, having been not just a JLU recruit, but a full member. I’ve seen the private documents and such that you haven’t. I am not being, as you put it a whiny baby. I am putting out a press release against certain illegal practices undertaken by some members of this group. I am not trying to kill the JLU, just to stop the illegal practices. The legal stuff they do, which by the way seems to be all you describe Aree, there is nothing wrong with that. It’s the stuff they aren’t telling you, such as the tapping on non SL channels and harvesting of real life information that’s a problem. And the JLU policy, from what I’ve seen, is not to avoid areas where they’ve not been specifically invited, but to stay out of areas, where they’ve been explicitly forbidden. That’s a very big difference. Furthermore, the fact that the invite is not form a member of the estate managers or such from the land, but just anyone there obviously is not a large enough qualifier for a “proper invitation”.
Reg Baxter
Aug 7th, 2007
Hello Reality
You are right about my suppling empty words – i am not sure if you understand the concept, if things are unable to done then with a key then there is no evidence to give. That you cannot understand that is baffling, what proof would you want? you say logs or something? but that would be for one instance – there are many instances, you would want a log for each?? what kind of log would this be ?? even there were such a thing after that you could always say “well how do we know there is not something else?” you could go around in circles like this forever.
The thing to do (and a much easier task) would be for you to simply provide ONE example, that is all you need to prove your point. I could give hundreds even thousands of examples and that would still not be proof, you only need ONE.
I notice one of the posts above mentions things that you can do with a key but you can accomplish those same things with a name – instead of scripting for a key for on and off line hud you could script for a name etc etc. and he mentions that others can be done with names also.
All we need is ONE example of where you can ONLY use a key, where nothing else would work, where nothing else could also substituted. just ONE and then your point is proven. I can give you hundreds of examples as I mentioned and that would still not be proof.
So you are right (you win!!) I cannot provide 100% proof because there is no way to do it from my side of the argument. I should also point out that it was YOU who made the original claim not me.
So I guess you win by default even though you have the much easier task (just ONE required) you seem to think i can do the same, the mind set that thinks like that is bizarre.
So you win I lose and I will not respond anymore because if you can not come with just ONE example where only a key will work and nothing else, whats the point.
So bye bye – been a fun exchange though wouldn’t you say? Well no, you probably wouldn’t, you come off as sort of bitter (if your not I’m sorry)and also seem to have missed some of the sarcasm in my previous posts too. Can’t figure where you keep coming up with the Kid thing though. That some sort of gang nickname you decided to give me, cause I’m not in any of the gangs above, just so you know. I would love it if I were a kid instead of an old foggy (relative to most in this game that is). Well see ya inworld, oh wait, no I won’t, you are an anonymous poster I forgot. Well bye anyway, as per your wishes i will leave this fertile stomping ground of discourse(that last was sarcasm in case you missed it) and not bother you further “bows and scrapes while exiting stage left” (sarcasm again)
oh and PS you may have have won but I am still right and you are still wrong.
NobodySpecial
Aug 7th, 2007
The bottom line, Nikola Shirakawa, is that the JLU will continue their legal and TOS abiding efforts. Were there any validity to your assertions — being as you’re such a high-minded individual — you’d have done the proper thing and Abuse Reported JLU as well as provided your proof of illegality to the proper law enforcement agencies. Further, as your character has been assassinated so horribly, you’d have already filed your lawsuit.
As proof is in the pudding and for the purposes of full disclosure, I’m sure you won’t mind providing the Abuse Report identification numbers of those filed by you on the JLU as well as which Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement complaints you’ve made which we should cooperate with and respond to.
If you’ve not done any of the above then I’d have to say you’re pretty much full of crap and I don’t even know you.
By the way, I filed 17 Abuse Reports for large scale sim griefing, racial and ethnic intolerance, and individual harassment yesterday. What did you do?
Pierce Kronos
JLU
Anonymous
Aug 7th, 2007
Abuse report list, for Pierce:
935435, 934252, 933274, 930609, 930607, 922727, 922723, 922717, 920413, 823092, 822940, 822934, 822932, 822930, 822926, 822917, 822912, 822910, 822898, 821242, 821043, 821029, 819465, 818899, 809868, 809860, 809851, 806638, 805854, 801368, 801359, 801358, 801356, 801353, 794051, 794049, 787489, 781939, 781936, 722038, 722037, 689938, 684983, 684398, 683883, 677044, 675155, 616043, 616043, 616037, 616037, 616035, 616035
I have abuse reported the few inworld exceptions the JLU has comitted. However, abuse reports, and linden involvement, as you may find by reading your terms of service and community standards, only applies to in-world information. Linden has no ability to check external websites, according to thier warning, and as the illegal stuff has been commited out of sl, i.e. on the jlu wiki, linden has on power over it. As for the law enforcement side of things, I do not have the grounds to pursue charges. I cannot press charges, as I have not personally been the victim of thier illegal practices. The only people with the right to press charges, and/or file a lawsuit against the JLU for information harvesting and invasion of privacy would be N3X15, mootykips, Tizzers Foxchase, and any other victims of thier information harvesting. I have personally spoken to Tizzers, who is being a saint about it and does not wish to pursue charges, and as for N3X15 and mootykips, it is my best guess that they feel the same way. As I do not have proximity to damages, I cannot file suit. as for your cockwaving of abuse report filings, No I have not filed a bunch of abuse reports for today. I was busy assembling a box of free avatars to donate to Yadni’s Junkyard, as well as donating my weekly stipend to new citizens to combat the camping problem. The only abuse reports I filed was for a couple of indecent avatars just flying around with pornographic phalluses out.
Reality
Aug 7th, 2007
Reg, all you had to do was provide a log or example script of the methods you had attempted. That was all.
As for my end? Hate to break it to you but my end is based on observation and having been on the receiving end …. I don’t script. I do however rely on hard evidence when it comes to specific things – including when a person attempts to tell me my personal experience could have been caused by something else.
You provided no evidence to back up your own explanation, nothing to really contradict my own personal experience: Far as I am concerned … you are not ‘right’.
‘Kid’ or ‘pal’ is reserved for use in much the same manner as ‘Dearie’ (see my responses to Prokofy in prior articles) – A very difficult person that quite frankly managed to grate on my nerves (of course in Prok’s case there were other reasons).
Oh – sarcastic humor is never a good thing to use in response to someone in a text only environment …. It is missing a few key parts which identify it as such.
As far as being anonymous goes – you too are anonymous Reg (I’m assuming you post using a Second Life user name) – unless you were one of the lucky ones that managed to find and use your real life last name to combine it with your first name in that pitiful list Linden Lab has … Reg Baxter does not exist in Real Life. It’s the same thing I’ve told countless people who seem to think their user name somehow removes that anonymity.
Now then – I really do not care if this gets no response at all – if you see this comment, that’s all it was put up for. Congrats by the by – you managed to get a response from me after I’ve had my morning coffee.
Anonymous
Aug 7th, 2007
“The legal stuff they do, which by the way seems to be all you describe Aree, there is nothing wrong with that. It’s the stuff they aren’t telling you, such as the tapping on non SL channels and harvesting of real life information that’s a problem.”
Which isn’t going on, so there was no reason to describe it, Nikola.
“And the JLU policy, from what I’ve seen, is not to avoid areas where they’ve not been specifically invited, but to stay out of areas, where they’ve been explicitly forbidden.”
And that is totally false. We don’t go into *either* areas. I won’t argue with you again on this. Have you considered a job with a popular tabloid newspaper because you’re just about as credible.
Anonymous
Aug 7th, 2007
@Reg
“I notice one of the posts above mentions things that you can do with a key but you can accomplish those same things with a name – instead of scripting for a key for on and off line hud you could script for a name etc etc. and he mentions that others can be done with names also.”
Actually you can’t use a name for an on/off HUD. If you use only a name then the HUD will only work while you’re in the same sim as the target. In order to query the on/off status of a player in a different sim you MUST HAVE their key.
Anonymous
Aug 7th, 2007
Challenge: “Were there any validity to your assertions — being as you’re such a high-minded individual — you’d have done the proper thing and Abuse Reported JLU as well as provided your proof of illegality to the proper law enforcement agencies. Further, as your character has been assassinated so horribly, you’d have already filed your lawsuit.”
Response: “However, abuse reports, and linden involvement, as you may find by reading your terms of service and community standards, only applies to in-world information. Linden has no ability to check external websites, according to thier warning, and as the illegal stuff has been commited out of sl, i.e. on the jlu wiki, linden has on power over it. As for the law enforcement side of things, I do not have the grounds to pursue charges. I cannot press charges, as I have not personally been the victim of thier illegal practices. The only people with the right to press charges, and/or file a lawsuit against the JLU for information harvesting and invasion of privacy would be N3X15, mootykips, Tizzers Foxchase, and any other victims of thier information harvesting. I have personally spoken to Tizzers, who is being a saint about it and does not wish to pursue charges, and as for N3X15 and mootykips, it is my best guess that they feel the same way. As I do not have proximity to damages, I cannot file suit.”
Summation: That’s pretty much what I thought — no proof for the pudding.
Pierce Kronos (alleged cockwaver)
JLU
Artemis Fate
Aug 7th, 2007
“”And the JLU policy, from what I’ve seen, is not to avoid areas where they’ve not been specifically invited, but to stay out of areas, where they’ve been explicitly forbidden.”
And that is totally false. We don’t go into *either* areas. I won’t argue with you again on this. Have you considered a job with a popular tabloid newspaper because you’re just about as credible.
”
I can only speak from personal experience on the matter, but the JLU entered Nexus Prime to deal with griefers (in lieu of the Nexus Prime admin being present no less) and we sure as hell didn’t invite them. When I talked to Kalel afterwards and he said he’d be no longer sending JLU members to nexus prime (after his “How will Nexus Prime survive without our help?” comments), he claimed he’d already responded 3 times there.
SqueezeOne Pow
Aug 7th, 2007
I agree with Artemis in the assertion that this whole situation would be settled if JLU made thier Braniac Wiki deal open to the public. That would be a tremendous help to the general SL public in dealing with known griefers and otherwise trouble makers.
How about it, guys?
Tiffany Wilder
Aug 7th, 2007
to quote – In order to query the on/off status of a player in a different sim you MUST HAVE their key.
This is a true statement but a /on/off stalker alert hud I have seen listed in slexchange gets the key for you, so while it does need a key to work, you personally do not need to know the key ahead of time.
In fact a lot of things in SL *MUST HAVE* a key to work – a rental box uses your key to communicate and tell you when rent is due etc, but you or the rental box owner do not need to know the key. Another example would be a boat for instance – once you own it it is the key that establishes you are the owner yet you do not need to know the key for this to work. The list of things that use your key are endless – but your key by itself can not be used to do anything to you.
From what I can gather from the previous posts it was a statement that having the knowledge of a different persons key would give the owner of that knowledge some special powers to cause damage or get personal info on that key owner. That is the part that is not true, there are statements that the Lindens can use this to do exactly that and its a good thing they are the only ones that have that power, but even the Lindens do not need to know your key ahead of time to ban you or access your personal information it may take the key to do this but your name supplies them with this key.
What it boils down to is what can these data bases of keys that have been collected do and are they a threat in anyway shape or form? the answer is no, they are simply taking up space and serve no useful purpose in doing anything *special* that can be done to you because they have your key.
Is it garbage and inexcusable that these groups would go around an gather this information without your knowledge or consent ? yes, but it seems to give then a feeling of some sort of power over everyone else *even though they have none* so let them play their little dress up role play games, they can’t hurt anybody that does not want to be hurt- only the Lindens can do that and no the fact that SL is now open source posses no threat in this. There are after all many RP games going on in SL the only difference is that all parties in those games are consenting.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 7th, 2007
That’s what I said, Artemis. I meant that the JLU policy seems to be to go everywhere without invitation, and to only stop and stay out of areas when they get yelled at for it.
Loloz Oh
Aug 7th, 2007
@Tiffany
The point is you NEED the key. You might not need to know what the key is but you need it nonetheless. My point is, access to keys makes it easier to script things, be they useful or grieftacular.
A database of keys is simply a convenient and useful tool.
Also, it’s not “garbage” that they’re looking up your key without your consent. Keys are a matter of public record and a personal database just to speed up a key queries. Think of it like a buffer.
Loloz Oh
Aug 7th, 2007
@Nikola
“The JLU policy seems to be to go everywhere without invitation, and to only stop and stay out of areas when they get yelled at for it.”
Holy crap, it’s like areas that are accessible to the public can be visited by… *gasp* the public.
mootykips
Aug 7th, 2007
“and as for N3X15 and mootykips, it is my best guess that they feel the same way”
Who says?
Anyway, enjoy filing your abuse reports. I’ll be creating another alt in 5 minutes and recreating everything I had on my last alt in another 5!
Anonymous
Aug 8th, 2007
Well mootykips, if you do not feel that way, it is my understanding you have intercepted Kalel’s real life information, and if you did feel in favor of a lawsuit, you have all the information you would need. The fact that no such lawsuit has occured is what led me to venture the guess that you were not interested in it.
As for you Pierce, the proof that the JLU wiki has real life information on at least N3X15 can be seen in thier wiki, from thier login storm a few months back. You asked for my abuse report numbers, and I listed them. I gave the proof you asked for. The rest of my response you copied was in response to your query as to why I did not pursue legal action.
As to the anonymous person who still claims that the JLU does not go into areas that they have not been invited to, I think it obvious that Artemis Fate would disagree, and has proof to the contrary, as can be seen in these comments. You may debate whether or nto there is anything wrong with that, but it is undeniable that it has happened.
Anonymous
Aug 8th, 2007
I have been speaking with an anonymous source, and I would like to make one thing clear:
MichaelFrancis Linden is a bug tester, who handles bug reports. A source close to him has said Venkman is not in contact with him. I have chat logs where Kalel namedrops MF Linden, but there is a very VERY strong possibility that this name is mixed up with Michael Linden. There is also the probability that, if it was indeed Mf Linden, that the calls was in reference to some bugs seen during the attack. There is no chance MF Linden is involved with the JLU more than any other bug reporting citizens.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 8th, 2007
Ok, I’m not sure why my name isn’t coming up, but those last two blank replies were from me, Nikola Shirakawa, that is, the 1:19 and 4:22 replies.
Trekker
Aug 8th, 2007
There’s actually a huge difference in what the collection of personal information is used for by both parties.
The JLU, from what I’ve seen, collects their information for the purpose of better understanding some of those who are regularly griefing on the grid. If enough evidence can be found to where the authorities would take action, without hesitation, I’m sure they’d turn that information over to them.
The PN, on the other hand, take the personal information they learn about others and use that with the intention to grief. They’ve posted the real life image of Kara Timtam, and they’ve even gone so far as to threaten Kalel and his family in real life.
It is because of these threats, against Kalel and his family, that mootykips would not be able to seek a lawyer. He’s part of the same organization that made those threats, so the association would effectively kill his case.
I don’t give Nikola’s comments a lot of credibility. I’ve seen how he acted within the United Federation of Second Life, and it’s very apparent that his attitude and behavior have not changed.
Incidentally, it was actually Nikola who was involved in that situation on Nexus Prime that ultimately resulted in Artemis making the decision that the JLU would not be welcome there again.
SqueezeOne Pow
Aug 8th, 2007
“The JLU, from what I’ve seen, collects their information for the purpose of better understanding some of those who are regularly griefing on the grid.”
Yeah, the Patriot Act lets the FBI do things in the name of protecting me but I still don’t want them digging through my garbage and checking my phone records…and they’ve actually been APPOINTED to do this!
Anonymous
Aug 8th, 2007
lol you people are funny, adopting the secondlife terms of service as your world view. unless the jlu is some government agency, the forth amendment doesn’t apply. there may be laws that say whether you can record telephone conversations, but a private citizen can do pretty much anything he wants with information that comes his way. as long as he doesn’t make stuff up that harms someone financially, it’s all fair game.
if you send someone an e-mail, call him and let your number show up on caller id, or have your personal information in whois databases for your domain or whatever, you’re just lucky the jlu and anyone else with a burr up his ass about your griefing doesn’t post that information all over the web where everyone will see who you jokers are. the only place that can’t be done is secondlife where you can’t post anything that isn’t already available in world, and even then its not illegal, just against their terms of service and likely to get you banned. maybe the jlu is under the same idiot assumptions as you and that’s why they haven’t opened their wiki to everyone.
Anonymous Legionair
Aug 8th, 2007
I’m going to nerd out for a moment because the parallels between what I’m about to say and the SLJLU are uncanny. A few years ago I got to watching an episode of the newer justice league. The Episode in particular dealt with one of the members (I think the flash) being catapulted several years into the future where the justice league had become something of a tyrannical force in a way similar to dystopian novel police forces ala 1984 (an inspiration for the episode no doubt). As the episode progressed it showed in many ways the same things that the SLJLU have done (although with a significantly more badass flare to it all). The citations are similar in an uncanny way and share a unifying theme making it at the very least worth mentioning.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 8th, 2007
Trekker, I haven’t been a part of the ufsl for more than a year, and my behavior in that group, I will admit, was rather noobish, but comparing my early behaviors such as throwing a tantrum over other star trek people, giving way the uniforms I want to sell, or trying to control an RP, have no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.After all, virtually every sl person starts of as a bit of a bad seed, at least in the first month or so, until they learn the more unspoken rules and social graces. I have it on record that Kalel and Sen Pixie routinely caged greifers when they first started out, until they learned that such behavior was viewed much the same as griefing and almost never smiled upon. Anshe Chung, the poster child for Second Life success stories started her sl life as an escort for low wages. The first couple of months to any SL citizen are usually rocky, and to call upon someone’s behavior in that timeframe is rather rude.
And breaking the law to gather enough evidence for authorities to sue is a specious and false argument. The fruit of the Poisoned Tree doctrine, as decided in Silverthorne Lumber Co. v. United States, holds that any evidence that comes via illegal means in clear violation of the Constitution, in particular the Fourth Amendment, or as a result of a previous such incident, is inadmissable in court. Basically, any evidence the JLU may collect via thier unconstitutional searches, will never be admissable in court. I understand that thier intentions in collecting the information were noble, but that does not excuse the fact that thier methods were corrupt and unlawful. The proper action would have been to contact the FBI or the Police, and had them go get a warrant to retrieve the information in a legal manner.
Witness X
Aug 8th, 2007
“The PN, on the other hand, take the personal information they learn about others and use that with the intention to grief. They’ve posted the real life image of Kara Timtam, and they’ve even gone so far as to threaten Kalel and his family in real life.
It is because of these threats, against Kalel and his family, that mootykips would not be able to seek a lawyer. He’s part of the same organization that made those threats, so the association would effectively kill his case.”
Very good point. The JLU gathered this information and SAT ON IT. When the PN gathered the information on JLU members they wanted to send a severed pig head straight to Kara Timtam even calling her and bothering her that way. They then went on to threaten vandalism on Kalel Venkman’s property and more against Venkman when they dug up his information. It was when the PN started using this the information they’ve gathered to harass and threaten JLU member IN REAL LIFE that the information was released to law enforcement. The JLU covered and protected themselves by gathering this information and NOT USING it like the PN did. Again the JLU sat on the information for a LONG time and didn’t use it to physically threaten people in RL or any other harassment.
See this is how /b/tard/PN/Anonymous/Channers do their work. They will gather every ounce of info on you and then try to ground you to a paste through their “legion.” They ruined one Keith Kuroson over a bunch of pixels they claimed where theirs, breaking into his Amazon account and ordering thousands of dollars worth of stuff, sending him stuff through the mail, calling and harassing him and his family, trying to sic th IRS on him and eventually destroying his website. Right now the “might” of 420chan.org and many of the other chans are focused on a person who goes by the handle of “Applemilk” simply because they don’t like her and feel she is a “lulz worthy target” and they are doing the same things they usually do except this time they may have actually gone to far threatening to kidnap and rape her. This is the mentally you deal with in regards to /b/tards/PN/Channers, now before it is stated that PN isn’t Chan, they are very similar and go about things the same way. The Chans spawned the PN, and even though the PN claim to operated independently mootykips/Mudkips Acronym often posts on 420chan to recruit and gather more firepower. The PN icon is derived from the Chans as will as their “Pool’s closed” motto.
You can see why the JLU this info just in case they needed it to protect themselves and point law enforcement in the right direction if they ever came under attack by the PN. The Chans are are cult, the /b/tards are a cult, the PN are a cult…they are all a cult a cult derived from the same sources.
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 8th, 2007
I can agree with you, Witness that the PN are very bad people. But that does not give the JLU the right to taker the law into thier own hands, throw away the constitution and go for the bad guys however they can. As I have said before, any evidence gained this way is inadmissable in court. I would like nothing more than to see these deviants go to jail for thier terrible threats, and the chan domains to be shut out of the web, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do that. The right way is to transcribe the threats that could be publicly seen without the use of whois information, or passwords that the pn undoubtedly would not give over willingly. The chans, are open to the public, with no log in information required, and as such, the threats made there against Kara and others could be collected freely, and given over to the police, who would then obtain a search warrant from the courts to go after the pn information on their private servers, in accordance with the Fourth Amendment. This is the proper and legal way to carry out such a campaign. Kalel, and several others in his group, however, likely due to it being personal, forsook these federal laws, and decided to handle it their own way, without a warrant, and without police involvement, with the intention of going to the police later. The fruit of the poisoned tree doctrine, however, renders this method unlawful, and hurts thier case, bringing liability upon themselves. Furthermore, the real life photograph of Tizzers Foxchase in thier possession, is not considered remotely part of this. Her identity was never linked to such threats, she merely talked to some of the bad seeds, and was even kicked out of thier group, because she refused to act with such bad behavior. There is no acceptable reason for her info beign on file.
Jabber39
Aug 8th, 2007
really JLU, you can quit the whole “collecting avatar keys” thing. if your primary target is the PN, then there’s no point, because that griefer you just identified will be gone by tomorrow, and back on a different alt. by the time the lindens read your report, the damage is done, a new alt is prepared, and the insanity begins anew.
brainiac no longer works with our current abilities. shit, we don’t even have need for item caches anymore. you can be privy to our plans, our methods of attack, but it doesn’t matter. spies are of no concern to us. we never identify our in-game user names in the IRC or board.
so really, all you’re doing is pissing people off. and that’s exactly what we want.
Witness X
Aug 8th, 2007
Nikola your hands are not so clean either. You participated in gathering known PN Myspace pages as well as trying to uncover info on them, covertly. You participated just the same and are now crying foul for whatever reason. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t point fingers at everyone else and claim they are in the wrong when you did it too. You are just trying to be supposed whistleblower for whatever reason and trying to gain attention for yourself, for if you really wanted to do damage you would release your supposed info without your name attached.
The information gathered is the same any hired private investigator can obtain, I even surmise that a private investigator can obtain EVEN MORE info than the JLU even have. Is that legal? Do private investigators have legal leeway to do what they do? It’s all the same thing. Another thing is all the info the JLU have is not even confirmed. The idea that you brought out that mootykips and Nexis even have a legal argument is laughable considering all the illegal activities they’ve partaken in or have lead. As for Tizzers you have no clue what she did or said. In her supposed attempt to write a paper on the working on a virtual world, or whatever her motivation truly was, she started the ball rolling on a alot of things that damaged alot of people (she also led PN cells under an alt but that neither here nor there in this arguement).
We are talking about information that’s easily accessible. If I so wanted to I can dig up info on you Nikola very easily. The thing is HOW I use that information that makes it legal or illegal. I can glance at it and shred it. Sit on it like the JLU did for defense. Or do what the PN and Channers do and try to ruin you.
All this goes beyond SL and the internet. All this stems from the fact that law enforcement and laws haven’t caught up with digital age. For if they did the Chans would be dust, mootykips would be sitting in a cell, and the JLU wouldn’t have their hand forced to collect such infomation. What the JLU did is no less than when a father digs up as much as possible on guy who is dating his daughter in trying protect her from bad seeds.
I may be biased in my opinion. I’m for anything that destroys the Chans and their cult Anonymous legion (Kirtaner from 420chan has ran around long enough with his site and the vile he promotes and partakes in). I’m for anything that throws many of the really realy bad PN in a jail cell. Yes I’m biased.
mootykips
Aug 8th, 2007
My good sir, please point me (hopefully a concise little copypaste) to a misdemeanor or felony I am guilty of! Bonus points if someone has been criminally prosecuted for that offense in the last five years!
Please?
Witness X
Aug 8th, 2007
“My good sir, please point me (hopefully a concise little copypaste) to a misdemeanor or felony I am guilty of! Bonus points if someone has been criminally prosecuted for that offense in the last five years!
Please?”
All I need to do response-wise to that is…
mootykips, I haerd Fox 11 news has nice dosier on you. As well as the more prominent Chan members. Have fun with that. And please do go charge and attack them again.
Please!
Nikola Shirakawa
Aug 9th, 2007
Witness, two things:
First, you are right. I collected myspace pages. Myspace pages that were open to the public, that did not require a password. The pages I logged were not kept secret. They were open to the world to see. And furthermore, I never logged real names from them. You see, what I logged was little more than griefer names from other websites. I did not break any constitutionality, as they were open to the public. When something is not hidden from view, one does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Had I required any passwords, or other information to signify privacy, things would be different.
Second, You have just proven that you are in the JLU with that statement. That page on thier information was not in the database when the pn got in and logged the information. This means you have access to thier wiki, and, aside from Cid Jacobs, no non-jlu has a password, to get in and see such documents.