Op/Ed: What to do about Griefers?
by Alphaville Herald on 15/09/07 at 11:38 am
Hit them where it hurts – right in the computer
by Danielle Anders, frustrated resident
Everywhere I turn lately, griefing is on the rise. This could be solely a reporting bias – more people means more griefing targets and more griefing reports. But let’s take a look at the problem a little more realistically.
The first strategy suggested against griefers is always tools. The grey-goo fence is often mentioned as a potential defense as well as a faster auto return, no-build becoming the default or more thorough banning. However, with any tool based dispute, the conflict becomes an arms race. It becomes a challenge to circumvent the tool, whatever it is, and the griefer’s delight is heightened by being successful in spite of defenses.
A second approach suggests using social methods – and there are two fronts to this. The first is the engagement crowd. Those seeking to find out why griefers grief and what to do about it. Enlisting them in talks, turning them around to a socially beneficial way of interacting. This is counter to what we know about griefers. The griefer’s stated motive is that SL is taken too seriously so their attacks are all for the lulz, defined as defeating those who take SL too seriously with the furries generally hardest hit. It is unlikely to be be easy to reform a griefer who is hooked on furry lulz.
Another social strategy is banning of groups – or guilt by association. For some reason, this is seen as striking a blow to the griefers. The only way it would work as intended is if all groups are closely monitored to see who is joining them as day old alts and attacking the grid. You might be able to shut down the Prok Fan club, but then you would see the Prokofy Free Love Club or another group spring up in its place. Attacking their tribalism will not work.
A third strategy is involvement by the Lindens. This will simply not happen. It has already been acknowledged that the Lindens will not handle resident to resident disputes. The most that they have done is the seizing of the Woodbury sim. But the scale of Woodbury was so high and visible that if the Lindens did not take action, faith in their product would have gone down. While individual griefers might be allowed to slip through, scores of griefers sporting Woodbury tags and crashing sims could not be ignored. It has also been written that the Lindens support the griefers either as performance artists who add drama to the world or as testers of the grid. Alternatively, the tools the griefers use to create weapons, such as self-replicating objects, are too useful to the community as a whole to be turned off.
property rights
So what can be done? I’m a fan of property rights and what I’m suggesting I’m usually fundamentally opposed to, but I see no better way. Take a tip from the RIAA and the MPAA and go after their computers. Residents that have been griefed should form an LLC, preferably in California. The LLC gathers donations for a legal fund and sues Linden Research for the names, chat logs and IP addresses of any griefer and all identities associated with that IP address. If a griefer lives at home and the entire family uses SL, then the whole family gets turned over.
Now here’s the tricky part. The list of griefers are matched to the Resident’s RL location. If an affected Resident lives in New York, and a griefer lived in New York, then the affected resident would go make a complaint at their local DA’s office, alleging theft of service, hate crimes, lost income, whatever personally happened due to that griefer’s actions.
The concerned resident asks for the griefer’s computer to be seized to verify the allegations, and with the proof already in hand, the resident says the computer is also the instrument of a crime and should be civilly forfeited as well. Many states have a statute that allow for the government to take lock pick tools away from someone who isn’t a lock smith. I’ve seen online child predators lose their computers because they are an instrument of a crime. And if the DA does not want to do it, mention that it would be good publicity and the office receives a high end computer.
Granted, this strategy will not work on every griefer, mostly because of the jurisdictional issues, state and local laws vary, there is a time lag and whether every DA’s office forfeiture unit is equipped to handle a case like this. But what’s a better way to stop a griefer than to take away their Second Life and take their tools as well. Isn’t this what we want?
^ban^
Sep 17th, 2007
@ shockwave yareach
Solution 1 is not viable. It will kill the already collapsing SL economy. Enjoy your dogcock.
Solution 2 wont work. You don’t know how the protocol works, obviously.
Solution 3 wont work. It makes too many things impossible, and brings into question prims that are attached to an av.
Enjoy. We’re here to stay.
craig cleghorn
Sep 17th, 2007
i don’t mind other’s making statements claiming to be me, but please forgive me, sicne i won’t be the matidor raising the red cape and begging the bull to gore me. please understand though that a greifer and a hacker are different. the hacker, and the exploit finder, I RESPECT, however the one’s that aren’t original, i really have no respect for, since they don’t create, they copy. if you can’t create something new, then don’t copy someone else’s creation. honoring a hacker legend is one thing, but mirroring them and pretending to be them is not cool. if every generation of hacker copied the one before it, we’d still be plugging paper punch cards into PDP systems, being the midnight hackers of old. this generation of griefers is realistically nothing new, we’ve seen similar acts in the past, from vastly more intellegent people. people that created gorgeous exploits, simple, lean, non-bloted hacks.
the fake greifers are trash, we all know it, the true hackers, we all respect. my question though is simple…
when are the true hackers, the true creators going to eliminate the “fan boys” that pretend to be the creator.
if you are a good hacker, everyone knows you… if you are a great hacker, you don’t even exist…
anonymous
Sep 18th, 2007
Prok sez: “If they aren’t there to grief, why are they doing stuff like trying to repeatedly make dollar payments”
ZOMG, someone is ENGAGING IN COMMERCE!!! Must be a leninist conspiracy, you can see the Comm in commerce = Comm in communism, ergo commerce = communism to prok.
Blak Hax
Sep 18th, 2007
@ Anonymous
On the same note… CA in CAT = CA in Capitalism ergo CAT = CAPITALISM = CRAZY CAT LADY
AMIRITE??
Hacker On Steroids
Sep 18th, 2007
@craig cleghorn
I challenge you to a hacking duel
The winner becomes emperor of the internets
Meet me in the tubes by sundown
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE
anonymous
Sep 18th, 2007
oh btw: I’m outing PN griefer Deadlycodec here. His real name is J Adams and he works for Cox Communications. His original SL account was Sil Demina, head of a minor mafia group, and he turned to griefing because Jenna Fairplay repod his land for being 24 hours late on tier. He had payment info on that account, and LL has been informed about this guy for a while now.
Proof again that LL just doesn’t care.
d3adlyc0d3c
Sep 18th, 2007
LAWL. J Adams sounds generic doesnt it?
hmmm. My you are an intelligent one aren’t you? (Intlibber)
Also Jenna Fairplay took my land after LL banned me (because ban is violation of covenant) but they didn’t notify me and still withdrew 75 bucks in tier from my account. She paid dearly for it when she refused to refund me, with attacks on both her website and tens of her sims, not to mention IM spamming attacks on her and Dai Vega whenever I launch a grid weapon. That was personal. Most of it isn’t. But yes, I was Sil Demina Boss of the ‘Demina Family’ and everyone in PN already knows I am a former SLer. In fact, many of us are former SLers. SLH already knows I was Sil Demina, they had contact with me before I joined PN. LL is just helpless period. They do know my real identity but it costs the FBI 200k roughly to investigate each case of computer crime and I am just not high priority for them. FYI I got banned before the shit with jenna happened because I was already experimenting with doomsday scripts and one day I harrassed Mia Linden with my first creation dubbed ‘Fagbot’, they managed to trace it back to me.
See its politics. FBI will never arrest me for harassing you fags in a game because of politics. They value their reputation, and so they cant go around looking like retards to the rest of the community. It would undermine them. Not to mention WE DONT BREAK ANY LAWS.
^ban^
Sep 19th, 2007
Correction: Most of us are not former “SLer”s. That is all.
At0m0 Beerbaum
Sep 20th, 2007
Simple:
Dont feed the trolls.
Just like real life there’s always an asshole out to start problems, online, they cant really hurt you physically (and if you think they can, get out more. or smash your hand with a hammer and figure out the difference that way, in reality of course.)
So why even let them bother you? best thing is to laugh it off.
but since some people will always take great offense at the littlest of things to satiate their hunger for drama because their lives are boring without some cause or conflict, griefing will never end. because the definition will be expanded. Plus, many groups that bank on griefing for their income or other interests would end up just doing it themselves to remain viable, or hunt for windmills and label random people as griefers.
So the problem is never going away folks, learn to deal, even if SL became pay-only, it wouldnt stop troublemaking, it would go down a lot less, but it would still go down, because some people have no lives and will pay money to fuck with other people, hell, WoW has its fair share of bullshit as well.
Anony-miss
Sep 20th, 2007
“2. Professor and Mia have ZERO involvement with PN.”
Actually, Professor Bebb was hired by IntLibber Brautigan to spy on the PN for him and he is still actually on the forums and actively relaying info about upcoming raids on IntLibber’s territory to him.
griefer groupie
Sep 24th, 2007
really..pple are taking this griefing way to seriously..talking about getting the feds to break down doors and confiscate computers is being ridiculously outrageous and extreme..besides..i’ve befriended griefers..and they’re usually interesting pple to chat with..i’m not a griefer but i offer them the attention that they want and they usually respond well..so i suggest a new twist in anti-griefing strategy..befriend the griefers !!
Jessica Holyoke
Sep 24th, 2007
Here’s the thing I don’t get:
If you have a store in RL, and other people were disrupting your business so customers aren’t able to come in and shop and your building is vandalized to the point of having to repair it, why is that a crime but somehow the same actions and the same results are not a crime when the same happens on what is essentially your website? Is it the fact that SL looks like a video game that people do not see the same actions as a crime?
And at what point has anyone said that if you do business in SL, one monetary loss aspect that you have to tolerate are the griefers and there’s nothing you, the resident, can do about it? If I invested real money into SL, I would want a better response then its all part of the game.
Ratcloner101
Aug 7th, 2008
I Ratcloner101 got to say this qoute ” I not a griefer but I do lurk tho <3<3<3 of Woodbury University Sim’s <3<3<3 ” I Love 4chaner sims but hate people who dont drag the LuLz or love to call me a trad or be races AR abuser = So that why I crash sims ” Basicly do to pickon with creative builder’s ”
Your Griefer hackers name’s hangout in Waterhead Welcome Area Sim that carry Sim Crasher’s in their Banned backup Box’s with Storage key script place on it.
W-hat Group = Fags hateing on 4chaners
Professor Beeb
Trevor
Bush
Mr Pee
Atom “Saying he Creator of all item’s like Hawok 4 Stopper 1.5 Sim Crasher” Which i rip scripts out to see why Sims crah Popscript”
OhComeOn
Aug 13th, 2008
Lighten up.
I hang with a lot of residents listed above and named as griefers. They are highly intelligent people, and nearly all of them have a great sense of humor. The disdain they show is mainly for people who use SL for sex, period. The furry community is a prime example. The ‘so-called’ griefers hang in welcome areas, but don’t specifically target residents unless they demonstrate they’re horny morons on the make, or blatently stupid. Griefers respect humor and intelligence. If you don’t respond to baiting, they’ll lose interest. If you can’t handle it, there’s the mute tool. If you’re looking to get laid, there are other places more appropriate for that.
Buy a IGrief
Oct 2nd, 2008
Buy an IGrief its the newest trend
Griefer
Dec 9th, 2008
You’re a retard. Taking people to court over a virtual world. Get a life you fucking geek.
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