Babyfur Leaders Tell-All

by Alphaville Herald on 11/12/07 at 10:58 pm

Interview with Raven Welesa and Corsi Mousehold

by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk

[Recently, I sat down with Second Life babyfur community leader Raven Welesa for an in-depth conversation about community, publicity, and SL politics. We were joined by Corsi Mousehold, who acts as a sort of den mother to the babyfurs - changing diapers and giving cubs cookies. If you are at all interested in how SL has changed over the last few years, Raven and Corsi's observations should be illuminating as they describe the struggle to build and maintain a virtual community. - the Editrix]

Linden Lab has created an insecure unstable welfare state – but you can still have fun pretending

Pixeleen Mistral: how long have you been playing SL?
Raven Welesa: since july 16th 2005

Pixeleen Mistral: wow! and the whole time as a babyfur?
Raven Welesa: With the exception of the very first day or two, yes

Pixeleen Mistral: so this is definitely what you have always wanted to be
Raven Welesa: actually no, on the very first day I got my first fox avatar, I went searching for others like me and happened to run into one of the original babyfur group officers and some others playing at a small building in the old continent of second life. Well to be quite honest, I had never heard of Second life until a website I went to had an article about it, and that was the only place I could actually be a babyfur and have some freedom. that is why I joined the game initially

Pixeleen Mistral: was it hard to find other people with similar interests in SL?
Raven Welesa: actually no, on the very first day I got my first fox avatar, I went searching for others like me and happened to run into one of the original babyfur group officers and some others playing at a small building in the old continent of second life

cub shootings in The Forest

Pixeleen Mistral: so have you always had problems with anti-babyfur sentiment? in the early days did people persecute you?
Raven Welesa: Within the first week of playing, I heard through the group chat of someone shooting at fellow cubs at what was then The forest

Pixeleen Mistral: so it has always been a struggle
Raven Welesa: more or less yes

Pixeleen Mistral: how do you cope?
Raven Welesa: Well we coped in 2 ways, first was my original Cubhouse and playground I had on a region called Aglia in the North Continent. The second was me creating my first island which you just came from, cub conclave. It gave others like myself a place to feel free to be themselves

Raven Welesa – our enemies have threatened us with physical violence

Pixeleen Mistral: how is that working out for you?
Raven Welesa: Quite well actually. We have a strong community atmosphere here. Many of those around here are regulars and many more come by on a daily basis

Pixeleen Mistral: these sorts of communities are what SL is really all about
Raven Welesa: SL, in my image was a place to let your imagination run free, and thats what I have done here

the need for security and stability

Pixeleen Mistral: what would make SL better for you?
Raven Welesa: Thats a long list, but first would be better security enforcement by linden labs

Pixeleen Mistral: how so?
Raven Welesa: Well we have been hit on a regular basis by some people, who I will not mention their names, and the lindens have yet to prove they are using law enforcement to take them down

Pixeleen Mistral: I see. What else would help?
Raven Welesa: Well aside from the security issue, I would like to have more stable simulators

Pixeleen Mistral: I think everyone agrees on that
Corsi Mousehold: I am head of security for a large group of sims. To help us get the sims back in order the Estate tools need to be fixed and we need the power to return both scripted and non scripted items from an entire estate – And have it work the way we want it to work.
Raven Welesa: Another thing would be for the lindens to actually listen to us about problems, the lindens seem to turn a blind eye to the furry community in general

building community

Pixeleen Mistral: maybe if you can get more people in the community the Lindens will listen. How do you recruit or find new people?
Raven Welesa: Well in the beginning when my group was small, we used a friendly website to get new people. That ended within about 3 months and from then on, people just show up

Pixeleen Mistral: publicity ought to help
Raven Welesa: Well publicity is a double-edged sword for us

Pixeleen Mistral: you get both more friends and enemies – but don’t your enemies want to stamp you out? it seems like you have to keep trying to grow – or the enemies win
Corsi Mousehold: Bring us out into the limelight and we get cubs that didn’t know we were here but also those that want to cause problems and target us now know exactly where to do it.
Raven Welesa: the enemies want us stamped out and worse yes, they have threatened us with physical violence

Pixeleen Mistral: how do you fight back?
Raven Welesa: I’m afraid I will not go into that
Corsi Mousehold: Me? Smile and feel pity for them.
Raven Welesa: I do have friends that at one time or another were completely deadset against us

Pixeleen Mistral: do you ever worry about being infiltrated? like your enemies pretending to be cubs, getting in your group and doing damage that way?
Raven Welesa: Why worry about what I can’t control from happening? No I am not worried about it because I have connections with other admins and sim owners so that when something does happen I know who it was and then I act accordingly
Corsi Mousehold: Communities all get positive and negative people for and against them. what I have noticed is the ones in the community that get upset over the negative focus their anger on others and spread the negativity. For example. We are furries all in all but we have had some bad publicity as the larger group. There are some that take a look at that negativity and focus it on certain sub groups like the Cubs and Caretakers as the ones responsible instead of realizing the individuals that caused the bad press were working alone. One group gaining a stereotype and focusing on a subgroup and condemning that stereotype.

Pixeleen Mistral: this is a problem common to all groups I am afraid – the PN guys had a lot of this sort of trouble for instance
Corsi Mousehold: exactly. They look at us as a stereotype instead of getting to know us and seeing … we’re kids and parents that really just want to have fun, goof off and just enjoy our second life.
Raven Welesa: I will not discuss them here. I know who they are, and thats all I need to know
Corsi Mousehold: Well more accurately we pretend to be kids and parents for the sake of just getting away from daily stress.

Corsi Mousehold – we pretend to be kids and parents to get away from daily stress

is ageplay a smokescreen?

Pixeleen Mistral: what message do you have for the Herald readers?
Raven Welesa: You know I have thought about a message to the Herald readers and its a rather long one. I think that they first need to realize that no group is ever perfect. You can name any group ever and you will find one bad apple in the bunch

Pixeleen Mistral: nods
Raven Welesa: We are no different and though I may wish I could control everyone’s thoughts and actions, I cannot do that. I think they just need to give us a chance, and if they don’t like us, to leave us alone and let us exist in peace. We are all different, no matter if you are most average person in the world, there are still differences between you and everyone else. And I think that those that hate us, they either have a bad impression from someone else, something they saw, or because they just flat out like to hate people for amusement. If people want to attack us based on who we are, then they need to take a long look inside themselves and see what makes them different from everyone and what makes them the conscience of the world

Pixeleen Mistral: hating another group seems to be a way some groups unite themselves – they need a common enemy. you may just be a convenient target
Raven Welesa: Well everytime someone does that, and there are instances in history of this. We may be a convenient target, but that doesn’t mean we will lay down and submit to them. For instance the ageplay ban Second Life issued. I was in compliance with the linden interpretation of it well before they came out with it

Pixeleen Mistral: I’ve been hearing people say the babyfurs are just a coverup for that ageplay thing but it sounds like you are staying away from that
Raven Welesa: That issue was a smoke screen for linden labs in my opinion.

Pixeleen Mistral: really?
Raven Welesa: They have many other issues that they could be tackling and instead went there. Now granted exploitation of children IS NOT, and I repeat IS NOT ever acceptable

Pixeleen Mistral: so this distracts people from the other problems?
Raven Welesa: Yes it does. The lindens could have been focusing on the many people that like to have fun destroying the grid for their own amusement. The damages from that has to be within the hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in expenses for linden labs and business across second life

Pixeleen Mistral: that situation is getting very bad – the Dreamland people are screaming about LL not doing anything but LL set up a situation where it is hard for them to do anything – unverified accounts and open source clients means anything goes
Raven Welesa: I have given Linden Labs suggestions on what to do, and they are that, suggestions, not orders, but whether they listen or not is another thing
Corsi Mousehold: Back in the days that you had to pay a small fee to set up an account. A one time 9.99 fee …. We had no major issues we had no major griefer attacks. We would have the occasional issue here and there yeah but …. Nothing major ever.

Pixeleen Mistral: I know – I miss those days
Corsi Mousehold: As soon as Linden Labs made this place open for free basic accounts … All hell broke loose.

Pixeleen Mistral: of course. but they went crazy wanting more “residents” at any cost
Corsi Mousehold: They could go back and have a … 5 dollar setup fee. Just 4.99 and that would stop the griefers Stop the unverified accounts Stop the big major issues that the game has.

Pixeleen Mistral: but at this point I am not sure if they can really go back
Corsi Mousehold: People buy video games all the time for 100$ a pop. Five Dollars is not a whole lot to ask. But sorry we are getting way off topic again. Oh of course they can go back. Not to 9.99 no but to five buck setup cost? Yeah they can do that and give it all back to the new account in Lindens.
Pixeleen Mistral: getting off topic in an interesting way though

the SL welfare state

Raven Welesa: Pixeleen, the problem from my standpoint is that the unverified accounts just allow the lindens to find more ways to charge folks like myself more money to cover the difference

Pixeleen Mistral: yes – you subsidize them giving away accounts, then some of the free accounts grief you – but some also come and play with you
Raven Welesa: If you think about it, they have created a welfare state
Pixeleen Mistral: exactly

Pixeleen Mistral: but the people paying the bills do not control the welfare. LL does
Raven Welesa: I’m surprised there aren’t collective farms yet. oh wait they have the infamous corn field
Corsi Mousehold: right now if I bought Five dollars … Just five in Lindens I would get about 1250 L$ …. People that get into the game spend that in the first week
Corsi Mousehold: Yes the corn fields. I asked Spike to send me there so I could see what it looked like just for the fun of ir but he said it would be a strike on my account and I have none as it stands.

Pixeleen Mistral: so if the government taxes you to give welfare to others and you have no vote – what can you do?
Raven Welesa: We do what any concierge customer does, bitch loudly when the grid goes down for a refund

Pixeleen Mistral: but they set things up so they will never pay a refund. the entire grid has to be completely down for over a day according to the terms. I looked into that over a year ago. if they bring one teeny bit up – they are off the hook
Corsi Mousehold: So as long as one sim is online …

Pixeleen Mistral: I guess until something else comes along you do the best you can
Raven Welesa: In my case, I do what I always do, rely on my friends here, who also rely on me, thats the strength of community at work
Corsi Mousehold: I would love to have more cubs. And hopefully more caretakers. I can’t make cookies fast enough already *giggles*

76 Responses to “Babyfur Leaders Tell-All”

  1. Nina A

    Dec 14th, 2007

    Where did I even come close to defending ‘babyfurs’? Confused much?

  2. Blinders Off

    Dec 14th, 2007

    /me watches the 60-IQ crowd further congratulating themselves for being so brilliant as to be able to point out typos, and failing to understand the difference between ‘leet speak’ and internet abbreviations. Shakes head.


  3. NOT anon, just anonymous

    Dec 14th, 2007

    “So that group that come here for ‘lulz’ masturbate to kiddie porn in the name of freedom of speech”


    And not only kiddie porn, kiddies being raped by dogs.
    Kiddie bestiality.

    cue the channer that tries to paint 7chan as ‘furry central’ again like last time I brought this up.

    LOL in advance.


    Dec 14th, 2007

    ITT: A completely pointless discussion is tied up in knots by heroic PN, leading to an absolute breakdown of coherence and nervous function amongst the participants.

    Result: Q_Q

  5. Bennie

    Dec 14th, 2007


    and here’s the problem with these kids.

    Is it possible AT ALL to destroy someone’s ‘e-life’ ?



    Unless you’re a Linden, get them banned for life… and then…

    Whoop, a new account is made, a new avatar is bought and they´re back to what they were doing before in their “e-life” before you “destroyed” it.

    You THINK you are causing great, huge, enourmous damage.
    That’s why you guys call your stupid attempts at downing furry and other sims as an ‘epic win’ while everyone else but you, realizes that what you have managed to do, is cause a little glitch in a computer game that makes some people log out.

    Then, five minutes later, sim’s back up, people have logged back in and happily continue whatever it is they were doing before you showed up.

    total effect of whatever it is you do:

    in game: 5 mins of downtime per sim
    on the grid: 200 sims taken down for five minutes, totalling not even ONE PERCENT of the entire grid
    On a personal level: make every other person on the net feel sorry for you that this is the only way you can feel adequate in anything at all
    on this blog: make everyone feel sorry for your parents that they have to carry the burdon of having put another retard on the planet, that can accomplish nothing more intelligent then typing ‘baaaaaaawwwwwwwwww’ on some forum or blog, thinking somehow it will make you more ‘cool’ then anyone else and that it’s the most witty remark imaginable.

    no matter how often you will call yourself or your actions ‘epic win’, that doesnt make you anything more then an epic failure.

    EVEN in griefing, you guys fail. Ask one of the managers of the second target on your list of the ‘big raid’ what he was doing during your hour long ‘attack’.


    Not even bothering to come over and laugh at your attempts to get into the sim.

    So yeah. Post all you want here, with every word you manage to type, the rest of us will be laughing at your failed attempts to try and prove the length of your “e” cock to your chanbuddies.

    It is indeed all about the lulz, in the Dutch meaning of the word lul.
    Protip: viagra and Swedish pumps work better then typing BAAAAWWWW on a blog.

  6. irony

    Dec 14th, 2007


    If you weren’t trolled, you wouldn’t be so desperate to argue with trolls in the first place.

  7. Blinders Off

    Dec 14th, 2007

    @ Bennie: Good post. You point out just how ineffectual and uncreative these nutbucket griefers are. They can take down a sim? Wow, sooooo impressive. Any inexperienced newbie with a toy can do the same thing. All that they have proven is they are antisocial, immature, and moronic enough to spoil the fun for other people.

    Not even CLOSE to elite. And those who are “elite” are in the same class of antisocial, moronic no-lifes.

  8. lol

    Dec 14th, 2007

    @Blinders Off


  9. @Bennie

    Dec 14th, 2007

    “Ask one of the managers of the second target on your list of the ‘big raid’ what he was doing during your hour long ‘attack”

    This so-called “manager” refused to mention the name of any sort of club or business, let alone their sl name, aka it was either a lie to begin with or they were afraid of someone coming to give their “club” the attention it didn’t get initially.

    As a troll, you know when you’re doing things right when sl furries lower their bar enough that they consider not every furry sim in sl being crashed to be a victory, sounds pretty desperate of them, doesn’t it?

  10. anon

    Dec 14th, 2007

    The reaction you get from the sim being down (and your attempts to argue at how futile it is) is the reaction PN is seeking. By raging about how those “60-IQ” nutbucket griefers are such meanies you feed the flames. Quite ironic, isn’t it? PN realizes that the sims can go up again 5 minutes from then – what is hilarious is the response.

  11. haha oh wow

    Dec 14th, 2007

    You know you’re beginning to assimilate the slfags when they use your memes while they bitch.

  12. Rape-Ape

    Dec 14th, 2007

    I went to that babyfur sim today, they were pretty helpless until the landowner (raven whatever) managed to finally get unparalyzed and freeze me. I raged him enough to attempt to freeze me over and over, add me to banlink (I saw the entry but ingame it did nothing) and best of all, he rezzed a copy of his own diaper and tried to put it on my chink av, which just made me look even lulzier.

    Then it hit me how ironic it was that mr diaper intelligence analyst would attempt to use his own fetish as an insult when raged.

  13. Blinders Off

    Dec 14th, 2007

    @anon… they think the response is hilarious? I’d have to believe that if they find that hilarious, they’d probably just love clubbing baby seals. LOL. Doesn’t take much to entertain them, I guess. You know what I find hilarious? That they’re spending their limited time on earth doing something so utterly worthless. That’s hilarious. LOL LOL LOL.

  14. anon

    Dec 14th, 2007

    Blinders Off: see, you just did it again

  15. Blinders Off

    Dec 15th, 2007

    Oh anon, soooo intelligent an observation. Duh. LOL.

  16. @Blinders Off

    Dec 15th, 2007

    You’re trying too hard, you’re starting to sound desperate.

  17. Blinders Off

    Dec 15th, 2007

    @@Blinders Off: one has to try extra hard to get through the skulls of these kiddie mentalities. LOL.

    Oh wait, scratch that. It’s not difficult at all. :D

  18. Bennie

    Dec 16th, 2007

    @Blinders Off


  19. L33t Masta

    Dec 19th, 2007

    Wow. This is all full of nothing but us PN vs the SLfags. Look at yourselves. THEY LIKE TO PRETEND TO BE DIAPER WEARING ANIMALS THAT ARE 2 YEARS OLD! Am I the only one who thinks sensibly? I used to be just like you. “Oh, just because they’re different doesn’t mean we should make fun of them or treat them differently”. Unfortunatly these people will be the downfall of civilization. As much as you would LIKE everyone to get along, this kind of shit will not help us grow as a species. you all BAWWWW about how they arn’t bothing anyone and we should stay away. Well an example needs to be set that this kind of behaviour is not right.

  20. Ranma Tardis

    Dec 19th, 2007

    This is really sad a bunch of people that can not leave things along. So you do not like Babyfurs? Why not just leave them alone? You do your thing and let them do theirs. Your attacks on them show your insecurities and fears. What are you so afraid of?? it has to be something what is it?? Do you beat up people in real life perhaps as well? What is your problem? Again why do you have to seek them out?

  21. L33t Masta

    Dec 20th, 2007

    @ Ranma Tardis

    Because what they do is a disease upon our society and makes us weak as a species.

  22. Mysti Inferno

    Nov 4th, 2008

    Woot Cookies! Omnomnom! also, Babyfurs Rule!

  23. [...] where in-world search is broken and frivolous DMCA claims fly, to say nothing of the charms of the babyfur and Gorean [...]

  24. the blind mind is not an open one

    Aug 7th, 2011

    look at all you arguing and some even using the term “our society” who would want to protect a society that is so blind to the potential that the individual has on things except those who are afraid of change and the future, i would much rather have an open world where every one could just get along is that so much to ask.

    who are you to talk about taboos there is a saying that is very wise something about how can you pull a sliver out of another persons eye when you have a pole in yours.

    arguing just leads to hurt feelings and in the end even the ones who grief get hurt them selfs probably already were and thats why they hurt others, its your typical bully + bullied = another bully situation.

    who here would love to see a world with out problems a world where we don’t have to shed blood for mindless arguments i know i would.

    no matter how you see it even the differences in everyone is not bad but a good thing people are supposed to be able to do as they wish
    do you think if they rely were not supposed to that something would have already been done besides human upon human ignorance.

    here is a question how many of you even know that many o there great inventors that made the world what it is today were put down for there ideas heck even Tesla was attacked course Thomas Edison didn’t want to believe that Tesla had a better way of producing electricity,
    and we would have had wireless electricity if it weren’t for Marconi stealing Tesla’s idea and drawing attention to Tesla’s real goal to build it .

    any one who bashes me on my comment is obviously lacking in understanding if they weren’t then they would agree with the ideals I’m trying to point out

    Peace .

    to name a few

  25. hobo kelly

    Aug 7th, 2011

    Edison and Tesla didn’t go around wearing diapers as grown men so don’t drag them into this grossly disgusting thread about perverts who come into SL and then become baby furs. I think you should check the wiring going to the In-Sink-Erator in your diaper because its backing up.

  26. Yep

    Aug 7th, 2011

    lol @ Hobo

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