Historic W-Hat Sim For Sale – Goons Go Back to Baku

by Alphaville Herald on 21/02/10 at 8:42 am

Estate owner is disgusted with Linden Lab customer service

by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk

Masa profile
"LL treats their customers too poorly to give them that much money" – Masakazu Kojima

The notorious WHAT sim is for sale to the highest bidder, a surprising development that will send the Something Awful W-Hat goons back to their old mainland base in Baku sim. Estate owner Masakazu Kojima – a resident of Second Life since 2004 – told the Herald that the sale was driven by her recent  suspension and Linden Lab’s threat of account termination should more offensive objects appear on the W-Hat estate.

Although the W-Hat goons’ notoriety, ironic builds, and reputation for griefing has been eclipsed by other groups of late, something in the recent Haiti-themed build apparently caused one Linden to wipe the sim clean and start swinging the ban hammer. Exactly what was broadly offensive enough to lead to this reaction from the game gods remains a mystery, according to Ms. Kojima. Because Kojima’s account was suspended, she was unable to log in to see or deal with the situation.

Earlier this week I asked Kojima about rumors of the WHAT sim closing, and she told me, "there was the whole haiti thing. I got unbanned but they said if it happened again they’d terminate my account so I asked them to clarify whether they were really threatening to ban me next time some random person drops a thing they don’t like in my sim and they find out before I do and they haven’t responded in like 3 weeks so i’m probably ditching the sim"

Linden Lab holds land "owners" responsible for objects which appear on their land, a policy which neatly transfers risk to those that pay for virtual land. Unless the owner is continuously present to police their  plots, it is possible for someone – or anyone – to create content that is broadly offensive. The risk for anonymous avatars using throwaway account to taunt game gods with transgressive content is effectively nil, and this has not gone unnoticed by the various griefing and Justice League Unlimited superhero vigilante gangs. It would be cruel to point out that the game gods created this situation by opening the door to infinite numbers of unverified anonymous accounts in the pursuit of growth – so we won’t mention that.

Masa at herald

"If somebody can find the time to suspend my account why can’t somebody find the time to check if I had even logged in, or owned any of the objects, or just send some kind of warning about it? Can you imagine how it would go over if a web host suspended someone’s account because of an offensive comment on their blog and refused to talk to them until the suspension was over anyway?" – Masakazu Kojima

Saturday, Ms. Kojima confirmed she was looking for a sim buyer: "I don’t really like the idea of just having someone else giving them the money instead, but I like the idea of them getting to sell it for full price again even less … I think what happened is some Linden came to the sim, freaked out, returned everything, then was like oh I need to ban somebody but now I don’t know who was involved, I’ll just ban the land owner".

Ms. Kojima provided the Herald with copies of her correspondence with the Lab:


Summary:        Account Suspended

Ticket Type:    Technical Issue
Technical issue:        I can’t log in
Viewer/web:     in the Second Life client software
Crash/Error:    Error message: account is disabled or suspended
Disabled Issues:        I believe my account was disabled for a Governance issue
Did you check the Knowledge Base?:      Yes, and my answer was not there
Preferred Language:     English
Details:        My account was suspended this morning for "Broadly Offensive
Content or Conduct".

I have not logged in for weeks, but I have been able to gather that an
offensive build was put up in my sim (‘what’) some time yesterday and
removed by a Linden this morning. I understand the need to hold estate
owners responsible for the content in their sims, but suspending my
account just prevents me from being able to deal with it.

I am willing to take responsibility for the removed content, I’d just
like the opportunity to make sure the land permissions are correct,
create an announcement, replace my infrastructure/security objects,
and change group/estate roles as necessary to prevent it from
happening again. I can’t do any of those things while my account is
inaccessible, and the sooner I am able to react the better; the whole
thing literally happened overnight.



[04:40 PM] Dee: Hello Masakazu Kojima! I may be chatting with multiple
residents at the moment, so please do state your issue, and I’ll be
with you shortly.
[04:41 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     Hi, can you please get someone to handle
my ticket 4051-7322562 or at least provide some kind of communication.
[04:42 PM] Dee: hi Masakazu
[04:42 PM] Dee: I will certainly escalate your ticket for you
[04:44 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     do you know when it might get handled? it
is kind of ridiculous to treat customers like this
[04:45 PM] Dee: I can’t promise, but I’ll try to get you helped today
[04:46 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     I’ve been a paying customer for almost 6
years now. If this ticket is ignored I will cancel my account.
[04:46 PM] Dee: it won’t be ignored, Masakazu
[04:48 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     It has been so far.
[04:49 PM] Dee: those tickets typically aren’t resolved within 24 hours, no :/
[04:49 PM] Dee: but it’s not that they’ve being ignored, it’s that
they’re answered in the order received
[04:51 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     If somebody can find the time to suspend
my account why can’t somebody find the time to check if I had even
logged in, or owned any of the objects, or just send some kind of
warning about it? Can you imagine how it would go over if a web host
suspended someone’s account because of an offensive comment on their
blog and refused to talk to them until the suspension was over anyway?
[04:52 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     It is not acceptable to be treated that way.
[04:52 PM] Dee: I understand
[04:52 PM] Dee: and I’m escalating your ticket.
[04:57 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     Is there any legwork you could do to
possibly help it along? Like confirming my last login date, or
anything? I don’t mean to be annoying, I’m just frustrated. I’m not
going to wait for the suspension to be up to get a response.
[04:59 PM] Dee: I understand
[05:08 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     Is it possible to transfer land without
being able to get in-world?
[05:08 PM] Dee: the entire region?
[05:08 PM] Dee: or parcel level?
[05:08 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     the region, and the mainland area that I have
[05:09 PM] Dee: depends on who actually owned it, you or a group
[05:09 PM] Dee: your account will be available within the next 30 minutes
[05:11 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     really? Thank you
[05:11 PM] Dee: you’re welcome =)
[05:29 PM] Masakazu Kojima:     It is resolved, thank you again!


(1/2/2010 2:25 PM PDT)
HI Masakazu,

We’ve lifted the suspension.  However, we have to remind you that ,
while we respect the sovereignty of estate and land owners as much as
possible, they can be held ultimately responsible for the way their
lands are used in the matter of a global offense against Community
Standards or the Terms of Service.  Accordingly, we must advise you
that we will have a zero-tolerance policy for globally offensive
content under the purview of your account going forward, and will
terminate your access if another AR of this type is substantiated.


 – teeple


1/2/2010 4:27 PM PDT    Reopened        Masakazu Kojima Hi,

Thank you, I really appreciate it.

I have a question:

This entire incident took place without my involvement, and my account
was suspended before I could react to it. I had not logged in, so I
don’t even know what was in the sim. I know that it was there for less
than 24 hours. I did not receive any kind of complaints, or warnings,
or anything. Is that considered as being under the purview of my
account, and would the same circumstances be grounds for terminating
my account in the future?

If so, are there any tools that would help me deal with or at least be
made aware of a problem, like the currently-disabled "abuse report
email" estate option?

If I make it so only I can change the main plot’s name and description
and make sure they are not offensive or encouraging offensive builds,
would that be enough to prevent the whole sim from being considered
offensive, and to hold individuals responsible for their own builds?

As I said, I understand that the sim is my responsibility and I will
do my best to make sure an incident like this doesn’t happen again.
I’m not trying to get out of that. I’m just not sure exactly how I am
expected to handle this kind of situation without even knowing about
it, and would like to be as well-prepared as possible to prevent or
respond to any similar incidents in the future.



14/2/2010 10:49 PM PDT  Customer Posted a Comment       Masakazu Kojima Hello!

Please clarify your threat to terminate my account by 2/21 as that is
my estate billing date and I do not currently intend to renew!


38 Responses to “Historic W-Hat Sim For Sale – Goons Go Back to Baku”

  1. globally offensive

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Here in the good old usa, me and most of my friends see the Haiti incident as an Act of God that instantaneously got rid of 500,000 cases of AIDS.

    Could celebrating that fact be deemed as “Globally Offensive”?

    Is that what happened here?

    Has America abandoned Second Life so throughly that LL must now cater to minor third world whims?

    And why do I smell the JLU involvement in all this?

    To cause this amount of ruckus with LL the W-hat gang must have been VERY creative.

  2. isoz

    Feb 21st, 2010

    People should all do like that… they would open their eyes and start caring about who pays their salary.

    I called the UK office last year, and one of the guys who work there hung up the call on my face…

    I’m sure those guys at the support office don’t even know how Second Life works n/or ever got in-world.

    I remember a Linden employee on the support chat, telling my friend that he was “hacking” into her account to verify some stuff. What kind of technician is this that tells the costumer that he is hacking into the account? Isn’t the right word “loggin in with administrator rights”? … HAXOR SKILLS, U NEVER KNOW.

    So Mr. Philip Rosedale, you better start firing the shit off of those people… start doing courses for ‘how to work at a support desk on second life’ or hire competent humans for the job.

  3. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Speaking of Linden customer service, I would like to put my 2 cents in.

    I once found this crazy camping site, and I reported it, because, it’s my understanding that camping is now against the terms of service.

    So, I filed the report and then filed 2 more shortly after. Then, I was banned for several hours and told that I do not need to report camping locations because LL routinely monitors search for these types of violations. The thing that upset me was the tone in which the LL support person was taking with me. Almost as if the person was yelling at me for trying to report camping sites. I’m trying to make SL a better place by cutting down on needless waste of resources, and I am treated like a tool. It’s not right I say.

    If someone could go to the following location of 80k+ traffic which is set up as a sploder campsite, and report it, let me know what happens:


    I beleive the site above should not be allowed in SecondLife because it is just a large campsite with sploders running all day long and just a waste of LL resources. Try to explain it to LL support however, and they will treat you like a turdball.

  4. Sylauxe Zhao

    Feb 21st, 2010

    The entire sim was returned around 24 hours after the build was started. Masa never even saw it and the vast majority of the content was made by two or three people (me included). I have been using the same account for over three years (since 2006) and have never once received a suspension or banning. However, if anyone did deserve a suspension over the Haiti theme it would be me and maybe a couple other people.

    I helped create a horrifying glimpse of a horrifying situation without sugar coating or Disney-fying it. Haiti is a third world country full of suffering people, all of whom we will forget by next month so we can focus on the next winner of American Idol. Meanwhile, the yiffy fur gor club (for lesbian shemales only) will hold a “charity” event for haiti and keep 80% of the profits they get.

    Welcome to web 3.0

    P.s. Here’s what Linden labs considers “Globally Offensive”:

  5. Crunk

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Ah it’s been a while since W-hat has been mentioned on here. Is it that time of the year again?

    Anyshits, I think this is a great idea on moving back to Baku. It just wasn’t the same to me having it located in it’s own sim, away from the Mainland.

    Also, fuck Linden Labs. And Philip Linden isn’t in charge anymore. He hasn’t had anything to do with SL in the last two years, except working on the SnowGlobe viewer.
    The man you want is M Linden. SL ain’t about creativity anymore kids. It’s about what makes Linden Labs more money, and protecting their IP from anything that might present a bad image to the outside world. And guess what? You’re not as important, and easily replaceable.

    Also, FgT RULES! That is all.


  6. Darien Caldwell

    Feb 21st, 2010

    While I wholeheartedly agree the sign linked above is in incredibly bad taste and is offensive, I do not believe it’s LL’s place to remove it from someone’s private sim. That’s a clear overstep of bounds, and a slap in the face to free speech.

    I have to side against LL on this one.

  7. Alyx Stoklitsky

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Given that the now beached intblubber has footed the bill for what several times (stupid fuck that he is) I’m not really surprised to see the sim go.

    I spent most of its existence banned from it for being a 4changetout.

  8. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 21st, 2010

    I would have to agree with Globally Offensive.

    I see countries that are unwilling to help themselves as a plague on this planet. If they are wiped off the face of the earth I really have no issue with that at all.

    The people in these countires need to learn to keep an equilibrium with the environment they live in, and, unfortunately, this does not include having 10 kids when you can’t even support yourself, and then expecting other people and countires to bail you out. I have absolutely no compassion for starving countries that do not practice birth control in a day and age when natural resources are scarce. Time to wake up starving poor world countries. If you didn’t have so many people living in such horrible conditions to begin with, perhaps you could deal with a natural disaster a little better, perhaps a fewer number of persons would have been lost in this event.

    The cluster of people that live so close together in these countries is just wrong from the start. Perhaps instead of other countries having to educate these countries in the ways of birth control and self-preservation, just perhaps, mother nature has stepped in and handled the job herself.

    It is not everyone’s right to procreate to the brink of starvation, it is not a right at all. Wake up poor countries, or other countries will come in and see the business opportunities and change your countries for the better, since, you can’t seem to do it yourselves.

  9. Tux Winkler

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Having seen the image I can see. Linden Lab has a major issue with colour! I created a group to rent land to a bunch of Nationalists, they made a nice sim and was in all fairness a decent tenant. Nothing I saw was offensive. Anyways, it seems the anti racist groups/communists groups/anarchist groups thought they had the right to decide who could play SL and who couldn’t! After armies of red beret zero age avatars coming and griefing, I reported a load (these was alts attacking one of my sims). I got banned for three days for abusing the abuse system.

    I came back and saw replicating rotating swastikas on other land I own. I reported this too, as did the tenant. Chiyo Linden came, My tenant IM’d her (I think its a her – cannot be sure though). This is the chat log he sent me!

    2nd Core: Hello Chiyo, can you remove these please. They get put right back after each return.
    - – no reponse – -
    2nd Core: Chiyo? you have been here 14 minutes? Can you remove them?
    Chiyo Linden: I am busy contacting the owner to discuss them.
    2nd Core: Could you remove them so we can use the land.
    Chiyo Linden: No
    2nd Core: I understand you are doing your job but if this was help island they would be gone by now.
    Chiyo Linden: Help Island isn’t full of nazi’s
    2nd Core: OMFG you cannot say that!
    Chiyo Linden: No you cannot use that abbreviation, swearing at a Linden is not a good idea. I will not help you and your nazi beliefs!
    2nd Core: I am not a nazi and I will not accept that you are allowed to express your opinion. You are supposed to be impartial FFS.
    Chiyo Linden: I warned you about that sort of talk – you are banned.

    2nd emailed this chat log. He was banned. I complained as a sim owner. I complained to Cyn. All I got was, I will speak to Chiyo. No apology. 2nd did get unbanned. But the grief continued. Once the tenants left I signed the group over to them. But I am still listed as the founder and am still subjected to political attacks from opposing factions. Also this group now has transgressed into RL, but thats another story – XD.

    So banned for abusing the abuse system! Spam not removed if the lindens approve of it (giant swastika prims preventing parcel use). Finally Lindens applying punishment according to their own beliefs not the TOS/CS!

    Finally, with regards to the call centres. This is just a call centre, they are not Lindens. And so far I have been told by 6 of them they don’t play SL. But they can reset my password, or request the sim gets restarted! Brilliant!

  10. deadlycodec

    Feb 21st, 2010

    “Here in the good old usa, me and most of my friends see the Haiti incident as an Act of God that instantaneously got rid of 500,000 cases of AIDS.

    Could celebrating that fact be deemed as “Globally Offensive”?”

    Are you fucking kidding me??? You know, people don’t go out and ask for AIDS, asshole. It happens to people who don’t expect it. I used to say that no one deserves to have such an awful disease but you have clearly proven me wrong. If anyone deserves it, a person who celebrates a natural disaster because it killed off AIDS victims does. That would maybe teach you some compassion.

    People with attitudes like this, who smugly believe that it couldn’t happen to them, are often at the highest risk for contracting it because they’re so smug that they fuck up and make the same mistakes many others did when they got it. All it takes is one screwup. You don’t have to be a prostitute, use IV drugs, or promiscuous. All you have to do is sleep with someone unprotected one time. That’s all it takes. Could be someone you love and trust. They don’t look like they have HIV, right? And they seldom do.

    I’m glad your fucking sim got shutdown. Couldn’t have happened to better people. Hope you fuck up and do something similar irl around the wrong person so maybe they can smack the shit out of you and you’ll learn to actually treat other people with some respect.

    Absolutely disgusting. What a bunch of scumbags.

  11. Zac Wilcke

    Feb 21st, 2010

    As a lesbian shemale yiffy gorean fur, I am very offended about the previous comment. Furthermore,

  12. Gaara Sandalwood

    Feb 21st, 2010

    “The entire sim was returned around 24 hours after the build was started. Masa never even saw it and the vast majority of the content was made by two or three people (me included). I have been using the same account for over three years (since 2006) and have never once received a suspension or banning. However, if anyone did deserve a suspension over the Haiti theme it would be me and maybe a couple other people.

    I helped create a horrifying glimpse of a horrifying situation without sugar coating or Disney-fying it. Haiti is a third world country full of suffering people, all of whom we will forget by next month so we can focus on the next winner of American Idol. Meanwhile, the yiffy fur gor club (for lesbian shemales only) will hold a “charity” event for haiti and keep 80% of the profits they get.

    Welcome to web 3.0″

    That pretty much sums it up.

    Sucks though, I loved the what sim. Such creativity.


  13. Jessica Holyoke

    Feb 21st, 2010

    I read the sign and all I could think of were those missionaries who were arrested for trying to take Haitian children out of Haiti when they were told that they couldn’t do that.

  14. Faye Serendipity

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Nothing in this article hasn’t happened before to others. Anyone with half a brain has learned by now not to give a dime to Linden Labs. They have had a terrible rating with the BBB for the longest now. http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/video-games-wholesale-and-manufacturers/linden-lab-in-san-francisco-ca-57373

    With tweaking, the entire of SL could be sideswept by someone stronger. This likely will be, as meta-universes become even more desirable to the masses. By Linden Labs continuing failure to comply and work with it’s customers, they are doing a disservice to themselves. This will ultimately lead their entire userbase moving to alternative meta-universes with better support under new companies.

    >Crunk: Also, fuck Linden Labs. And Philip Linden isn’t in charge anymore. He hasn’t had anything to do with SL in the last two years, except working on the SnowGlobe viewer.

    As far as Philip Linden, he’s just clearly delusional at this point if he still considers himself a top player in online worlds. Just watch his commentary/segment on Second Life the recent Frontline special “Digital Nation”. The program, for what it was, showed a pretty cynical viewpoint of direction the internet is taking and Philip made sure to showcase the worst of SL for everyone to see. Bad publicity is free publicity?

  15. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 21st, 2010

    DC, If a person wishes to celebrate something, you should not rain on thier parade.

    People celebrate in different ways. I may have celebrated the Haiti crisis not for the AIDs sufferers, but because of the population control mechanism that mother nature employed. I see it as a good thing, the world became a little less crowded. If you care to learn something that may be useful, I would suggest starting with http://www.populationconnection.org.

  16. masa

    Feb 21st, 2010

    I’ve never made any attempt to defend what was in the sim. Making light of tragedy isn’t anything new for W-Hat but there is a line between edgy humor and shameless hate and racism which goons trip over all the time; I am willing to believe we rocketed past that line in a rush to be relevant again. I don’t think there is anything really wrong with LL stepping in and wiping the sim and suspending the people involved – it may be an unfair distribution of “justice,” but nobody’s perfect. The terms of service and community standards are theirs to enforce how they see fit, and all W-Hat members are aware of that and live with it.

    However, none of the people who were actually involved were punished in any way. From what I’ve been able to find out, many or most of the objects even belonged to someone who isn’t even in our group and has gotten tens or hundreds of accounts banned (public build was turned on). Instead of disciplinary action against his account, they decided to punish someone with no involvement, a 6-year-old account, a mostly clean record, and a huge monthly bill. Annoying, but everybody makes mistakes, and with Dee’s help it was even taken care of pretty quickly. If it had ended there my opinion of Linden Lab would have actually improved, because I never expected to get the suspension lifted.

    The threat though — no way. If sim owners are going to be threatened with account termination for the content of their sims, I think they should at least be given the first chance to respond to abuse reports in the sim. Otherwise the risk is far too great. I don’t have time to police the sim that frequently, and we play too close to the edge for me to predict when they’re going to decide we’ve crossed the line. They have staff that are paid to handle this kind of thing – why in the world should the responsibility fall on me?

    When they’re not treating me like a criminal, they’re completely ignoring me, so I’m just getting out while I still can. Better late than never.

    @Alyx: IntLibber’s total contributions to W-Hat amount to less than half of one month’s bill, sorry.

    @Tux: Chiyo Linden is also who wiped our sim and banned me! She’s a loose cannon!!

    @deadlycodec: I don’t think anybody in W-Hat shares that guy’s opinion, but if you keep it up I’m sure you can get someone to stop thinking about Haiti for a little while and shed a tear for poor deadlycodec instead. People don’t generally go out and ask for earthquakes either, by the way.

    @Faye: Coincidentally, the person who used to foot most of our bill left SL for this same reason. Four years ago.

  17. Nelson Jenkins

    Feb 21st, 2010

    I’d like to throw in my two cents on the subject of the Linden support team being full of shit…

    A recent encounter with Linden Lab resulted in my account’s suspension for 3 days. At the time, I was working as an estate manager to keep order in a popular roleplay sim. A notorious troublemaker had joined the sim a few days earlier and decided to set up a State Police department within the region (which is against the code of conduct). The estate owner notified her and she promptly threatened back to have the entire city wiped clean and the sim removed. She received a 1 week ban from the region for her actions.

    Exactly 10,080 minutes later, the gal came back and started putting up Nazi propaganda (she is quite famous for being a self-proclaimed neo-nazi with her own Nazi sim and gang). When the items were returned, she started a scene outside the police department, name-calling the estate managers (me along with 2 others) and generally being a bitch about the whole ordeal. (For the record, she also is well-known for having a drinking problem.) We decided to bear the grunt of the monologue to justify a permanent estate ban, then she decided to nuke the sim with anti-push-defeating orbiters. I had the pleasure of estate banning her permanently.

    Two days later, I received an email that my account was suspended for 3 days for harassment. I talked to my connection to the RESI team who verified that I was suspended due to over 20 abuse reports from the Nazi gang, all in defense of the troublemaker. However, I was completely unable to provide my side of the story to the support team, who promptly ignored my request to reactivate the account. I served my time and talked to the connection, who told me that my suspension was not without reward – the Linden who suspended me was on his second day on the job and had performed so many bans of that nature that he was demoted from his RESI status and was no longer able to suspend accounts through ARs. I have yet to receive a formal apology from the support team – their response was along the lines of “Please read the Community Standards, and please do not continue contacting us on this matter as we will no longer respond.” I was completely outraged that the Lab had effectively restrained me from contacting them regarding an unfair, misjudged ban!

    All was not lost, however. After threatening a lawsuit, the RESI team made it up to me – the troublemaker was put under a massive investigation and was recently permanently suspended, her sim was removed, and her inventory was entirely wiped. Several of her friends enjoyed the same fate and ARs that had been filed en masse from the gang were all removed from the system and bans currently in place were lifted.

  18. Alyx Stoklitsky

    Feb 21st, 2010

    >IntLibber’s total contributions to W-Hat amount to less than half of one month’s bill, sorry.

    Oh ok. Can we still be friends? <3

  19. LOL

    Feb 21st, 2010

    Haiti has\had a real life disaster and needs Real Life help, not Second Life Drama.

  20. IntLibber Brautigan

    Feb 22nd, 2010

    That’s accurate.
    Really now, have you been sucking the prok kool-aid?
    Dude, aren’t you supposed to be, like, dead? From AIDS? From screwing too many anonymous heroin shooting HIV positive haitian whores with no condoms? Really now, Mister Self Responsibility, what gives?

    Like the men in black, Lindens do not have a sense of humor that they are aware of.

    I was vastly amused that Teeple actually used the word “sovereignty” in his email to 2nd Core in reference to estate owners rights. Lindens do not believe in the sovereignty of their estate customers, or their constitutional rights. LL thinks that IT is its own sovereign country that can give fuck-all about the rights of their customers.

    If Teeple’s statement about estate owners ‘sovereignty’ hold true, then LL doesnt seem to realize that acts like those taken by LL against estate owners constitute Acts of War.

  21. Alyx Stoklitsky

    Feb 22nd, 2010


    No, but I did watch you drive your e-business into the toilet by wasting every penny you made and by keeping empty sims alive to preserve your e-penis. Myself, Tizzy and I told you to gut your estate of its useless bullshit countless times throughout 2008 and 2009, but you didn’t because you are a stupid manchild.

    I can only pity your no doubt long suffering parents.

  22. Alyx Stoklitsky

    Feb 22nd, 2010

    And yes, I am two people. Myself and I.

  23. LittleLostLinden

    Feb 22nd, 2010

  24. Jahar Aabye

    Feb 23rd, 2010

    There is one thing about this that worries me, personally. There are a set of WWII-themed combat sims that I frequent. I am not an owner or admin in any way, I just enjoy flying planes in SL, and love some good old fashioned P-40 vs Zero aerial combat.

    However, in this sim, there are rules of combat that restrict it to Allied vs. Axis nations. Being Jewish, I prefer to use Japanese planes when I fly on the Axis side, rather than fly German planes, but I have no problem with those who do. It is required that all planes and other vehicles have some nationality markings to differentiate friend from foe (and in fact, there are large charts showing the roundels used by the many different countries who participated in that war, and the sim owners and admins make an effort to teach about the history of the war).

    Now, the swastika is explicitly banned in these sims. Anyone fighting as a German must use the Iron Cross or some similar symbol. There is very little debate over this, and in fact most plane makers have been adhering to this rule for a long time (my girlfriend has a Stuka made by THI that uses the Iron Cross, for example). Sim owners and admins will give one warning and then ban anyone using or displaying a swastika.

    However, this precedent is disturbing. Suppose that one evening, a group of new players enters one of the sims, and rez a bunch of items with a swastika on them, with no admins or owners around to ban them? Would the sim owners find their accounts suspended?

    For that matter, are the administrators of consensual combat sims such as New Jessie, Pure Combat Sunnyvale, or the various CCS and DCS sims where rules limit combat to the use of specific, approved, ToS-legal devices going to be held responsible if some griefers come into the sim and start orbiting people? That does happen in some of these combat sims, when people stupidly think that their “combat HUD” that they purchased in some weapons store is ok to use to orbit people and crash their clients or some such. Usually these individuals who do these things are ejected and banned, but if a sim admin is not able to do so in a timely fashion (for example, because the griefers attacked them as well), are the sim owners and admins going to be held accountable?

    And finally, how the hell can the sim owner deal with any offensive content on his region if his account is suspended? That is just a stupid catch-22. The sim owner and his designated administrators are the ones that LL has said repeatedly should be taking an active role in governance of their regions, and yet if they suspend their accounts, how can they remove this content?

    This story just reminds me of the old maxim that one should never ascribe to malice that which can better be explained by incompetence.


    I actually encourage my girlfriend and our friends to make jokes about my medical problems. I know that mine are not as serious as yours, and HIV/AIDS is a horrible epidemic. That being said, remember what I said in a previous comment: always make sure that you can laugh…because laughter is your way of proving that you can still breathe, that you can still think, and that you are still alive and will fight tooth and nail to keep things that way. There is no better medicine, no better defense, no better weapon than laughter (although I will admit that I also owe a debt of gratitude to some EMTs and the makers of several anticonvulsant medications, but still…).

    Take a deep breath, and then let it out with a loud, violent laugh. If you need help doing that, I strongly recommend Robin Williams old 1980s Live at the Met routine (not the more recent ones, although they’re not bad), or some good old fashioned Richard Pryor or Bill Hicks. And of course, if it’s dark, morbid humor that you want, it doesn’t get any better than Dr. Strangelove.

  25. Tux Winkler

    Feb 23rd, 2010


    “I was vastly amused that Teeple actually used the word “sovereignty” in his email to 2nd Core”

    Actually I find Teeple quite plesant. He has allowed me to use a video I made when I deformed him on Help Island using FlexLife (although the “enforcers” of help island think they have the right to have a go at me for it – erm permission!). Anyways, it was Chiyo in the logs I was sent and I didn’t see the email from LL so cannot confirm the use of “sovereignty”.

    I just think it terrible that the use of a symbol from history is banned (in a WWII rp sim). It is a shame to think how simple it is to change the past. It is also a shame to think anyone with an opinion slightly different from the norm is victimised and pushed from SL (excluding furries of course – Lindens RL uniforms probably include furry heads!).

    Second Life – a place you can do or be anything you want – provided it fits in with Linden Lab’s censorship!

  26. Jahar Aabye

    Feb 23rd, 2010


    The banning of the swastika was actually something that had been done voluntarily long before any Linden policies or input. I bought an Italian G.55 from one plane maker, and in the notecard he explicitly states that he does not hold or support fascist ideologies, he simply likes making planes that are historically accurate, but that he avoids using symbols like the swastika because of the connotations it invokes.

    It’s also probably worth pointing out that most German military vehicles in WWII actually used the Iron Cross instead of the Swastika (the Iron Cross being a longer-standing German military tradition…the swastika was more of a political symbol than a military one). I was actually working on scripting a Tiger tank that a friend built, it has no swastikas on it, and he based its texturing on the actual markings that you would find on such a tank. Ironically, where I’ve seen swastikas have been on the sides of Allied fighter planes, where the markings were sometimes used to denote the number of German planes that the pilot had shot down.

    And I’d also like to correct you about the respect that the owners and admins of those sims have for the history of that war. They simply want to focus on the brave men and women who risked and sacrificed their lives, on both sides, rather than on politics. There is no historical revisionism, they simply choose to focus more on things like the Chennault’s AVG, or the origin of the Thatch Weave. A good friend of mine, and one of the admins of those sims, is of Chinese ethnicity, and despite what the Japanese did during that war, he has no problem when I go up in a Zero to shoot him down (or more accurately, when he shoots me down, being a far better pilot than I), nor do I have any problem if he goes up in a German Bf-109 against me in a P-40 or Hawker Hurricane.

    And as I mentioned, they provide extensive lessons on the countries involved in WWII (more than just the big ones like the US/UK/USSR vs Germany/Italy/Japan). It was a truly world war, and they have large charts showing the roundels (plane insignias) used by almost every country in the war. The charts are so large and so inclusive that it is actually difficult sometimes to find the country you are looking for, even when you know their roundels, there are simply so many countries who were involved. I mentioned Chennault and the AVG, for example, and they make no attempt to hide or change or revise the fact that it represented American involvement in the war in the Pacific that predated Pearl Harbor.

    Everyone who goes through their “flight academy” is expected to know the roundels of the Allied and Axis sides, and to recognize them in combat and avoid friendly fire. Obviously mistakes are made and apologies and an offer of virtual beer is enough to smooth things over, but there is a very large emphasis on learning about the countries involved and the roles that they played in the war.

    If you would like a tour of these sims, feel free to IM me in-world. I even own a couple of planes that I can set to guest-pilot if you want to go up and have a few dogfights. I don’t want to name the sims here simply because I don’t want them to become griefer targets.

  27. Tux Winkler

    Feb 23rd, 2010


    I am sorry, I have little to no knowledge of re-enactment/rp stuff and even less of history or politics – just didn’t find them important. I respect your chosen knowledge though. And thanks for explaining the use of symbols.

    Why I spoke of changing history, I actually meant the blanket ban on the swastika. The nationalist tenants I had never displayed it, yet the griefers who attacked them did? Go figure!

  28. masa

    Feb 23rd, 2010

    “Sovereignty” was used in the response to my ticket.

    Speaking of swastikas, Nova Linden once wiped half of our plot because someone created a few on it. Here’s a story from way back when the Herald condemned us: http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2005/01/meet_the_whats_.html

  29. rudi dutschke

    Feb 23rd, 2010

    @Tux/2nd Core
    ” I created a group to rent land to a bunch of Nationalists, they made a nice sim and was in all fairness a decent tenant. Nothing I saw was offensive.”
    A bunch of nationalists, decent tenants? No Tux, you’ve supported the most narrow minded boneheads you can met these days. BNP-loosers like “Patriot UK” (search “Stormfront.org”), offensive supremacist neo-nazis from “European Heritage”, walking around in SS-Uniforms – i got a couple of snapshots and I’ve successfully AR’ed them. You’re playing the nice guy here and in other forums. Furthermore, inworld you’ve supported the Communist Party of SL by scripting a voting machine for them – and now? “Nothing I saw was offensive”… Lol, i saw the banners and leaflets of the French FN, the British BNP, the German NPD on the island you owned and left its use to the SL-/RL-Nazis. Schizophrenia?

  30. Tux Winkler

    Feb 23rd, 2010


    From my perspective they was a decent lot – as was the communist tenants and the cpsl when I aided them with a few simple scripts (I am not sure they want me to talk about these scripts though – I respect that). But then I am far from opposing sides. I know very little of politics (only what I have picked up through SL) and I guess this is why I see people as they come.

    And now? I don’t have an answer for you, as I don’t understand the question – sorry.

    Actually I did see some posters but didn’t really pay attention, no different to “yiff in hell” posters in my eyes.

    As to us being one in the same, I am sure it makes it easier to comprehend that way. Unfortunately it isn’t true. But that wont stop you believing it. I have been in SL far longer than he or his group. As for being schizophrenic, again, incorrect. But hey, rationalise as you wish.


    I remember something about that. I do think it comical that people know so much fact when asked. And that they bash people for being geeks! you would have thought they would have realised that SL wouldn’t exist without said geeks.

    In fact, having known PN & W-Hat scripters, I can honestly say, their system and scripting knowledge leaves me looking like a noob (not that I am brilliant you understand). Many of the exploits etc that are found get patched. I think LL should provide a group of sims for free creation (not false freedom – but sims which AR’s are ignored in). Let the creativity truly flow (am guessing it would be a spandex free zone)!

  31. roflcopter

    Feb 24th, 2010

    @codec You got trolled, bigtime.

    Also, an observation…

    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving yiff or furries increases.

    I saw it coming when I read ‘W-hat’ in the title… Sylauxe Zhao, I salute you.

  32. roflcopter

    Feb 24th, 2010

    another observation…

    Goons, anons and other similar groups, all love the guilty by association game. Or, guilty by failing to disassociate. Like the comparison of Lindens with Furries, as in above quotes, and various people and grtoups have been attacked not for being furries, but simply for associating with them. Saying ‘in public’ on some forums that you can stomach furry art (as in, not exploding in rage if it’s more fluffy then your average neko) can trigger a storm of yiff in hell comments.

    It seems that LL plays this very game, the sim owner of the What game is guilty by association with some of the goons, and now gets punished for their actions, and Tux is, as he tells above, guilty by association with nationalist groups and taking flak for that.

    Just observing, read in this whatever you wish.

  33. At0m0 Beerbaum

    Feb 26th, 2010

    “SL ain’t about creativity anymore kids. It’s about what makes Linden Labs more money, and protecting their IP from anything that might present a bad image to the outside world. And guess what? You’re not as important, and easily replaceable. ”


    The irony is, everything they do to preserve their money making shit, does the opposite.

  34. agreeman

    Feb 27th, 2010

    I totally support the idea of dumping the region, stop supporting their crap

  35. Ken Glume

    Mar 2nd, 2010

    @Masa – hey maybe you can do the free mall at Baku.

  36. Baloo Uriza

    Mar 7th, 2010

    Am I the only one who thinks that the w-hat folks are more or less getting what they have had coming for years with this? If you want to be assholes to the rest of the Linden customer base, don’t be too shocked when the Lindens don’t care about your problems.

  37. Stupid Linden

    Apr 30th, 2010

    Just keep sending us your $$ and SDFU! Or else we’ll ban you!

  38. knucklehead

    Apr 30th, 2010

    I’m not sure that the W-hat Mall is still there anymore. I have bought helpful things there at the Mall before, but as recently as the day before yesterday I went “Back to Baku” and there didn’t appear to be a W-hat Mall there anymore, let alone any kind of “Crazy Cat Lady” (prokofy) Doll forsale.

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