Emerald In Disgrace!!! Philip Linden Warns Against Malicious Viewer!!!
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/08/10 at 10:45 pm
Philip Linden took pen in hand today to warn Second Life players the controversial Emerald Viewer has been removed from the official list of third party viewers stating "We will not tolerate a viewer that includes malicious code, nor will we tolerate development teams with a history of violating users’ trust or disrupting their lives" on the Second Life blog.
Underlining the gravity of the situation, the Linden Lab CEO also sent virtual world residents personal e-mails – a task would could not have been fast, easy, or fun – encouraging players to flee the to other viewers: "If you have been using the Emerald viewer, for now we would encourage you to consider either one of the Linden Lab viewers, or an alternative third-party viewer".
The Herald contacted the Lab for comment, and Linden Lab PR specialist Pete Linden provided this statement:
We may remove viewers from the Third-Party Viewer Directory when they violate our Policy on Third-Party Viewers. The Policy prohibits the distribution of harmful functionality like denial-of-service attacks or griefing attacks. It also requires a published Privacy Policy that specifically describes what user data the third-party viewer collects, stores, and uses and how it uses, displays or shares that data.
As a result of multiple violations of the Policy, we have removed the listing of the Emerald viewer from the Third Party Viewer Directory.
We have insisted that the Emerald development team make transparent to the Second Life community the functionality of its viewer code and the user data that the Emerald viewer collects. We strongly urge all Residents who continue to use the Emerald viewer to make these demands as well. We also caution Residents of the potential risks involved in using certain versions of the Emerald viewer. Although we have not at this time disallowed use of the Emerald viewer entirely, we may do so if the problems with the viewer are not appropriately remedied by the Emerald development team.
Of note is the requirement of a published privacy policy specifically describing the user data collected by third party viewers and how this information is stored, displayed or used.
This requirement could be a problem for the Emerald viewer, which has a history of gathering full directory path names (which can include real life typists’ names) and baking these into avatar textures without the knowledge of the users. A dispute over this practice led to the departure of LordGregGreg from the Emerald gang recently after Lonely Bluebird (a.k.a. Phox) promised to remove the privacy leak, but did not. Lonely Bluebird remains on the Emerald development team.
The Lab’s statement supports claims by reliable sources that removal of the Emerald viewer from the third party viewer list was a unilateral action on the part of Linden Lab. This contradicts Emerald developer Skills Hak’s assertion that Emerald asked to be removed from the third party viewer list to transfer ownership of the listing from Fractured Crystal.
Mr. Crystal was thrown out of the gang in the wake of an Emerald viewer-based DDOS attack — although the Emerald gang leadership told the Herald this was not really a denial of service. Arabella Steadham – who does not lie – may want to consult with the Lab on their definition of a denial of service attack.
With Linden Lab cautioning players against using certain versions of the Emerald viewer, it may be only a matter of time before some or all versions are banned – unless appropriate remedies are enacted by the Emerald developers. Remedies may soon be moot however, if the players heed the Lab’s warning to flee Emerald.
We
Sep 4th, 2010
@El
I have no clue where people are getting the idea that the only choices are Emerald and 2.0 but this seems to be a common misconception among Emerald folk. There are many other TPV, and they pretty much all have comparable features to Emerald now.
Since it’s still possible that Emerald may be getting locked out of SL, you might want to get used to another viewer. I would say try out Ascent, Imprudence, or the new Phoenix viewer (which is essentially a fork of Emerald).
If snowstorm works out as planned, it may very well kill out most all TPV anyways.
Tracey Humphreys
Sep 4th, 2010
@El ‘…I’ve downloaded the new final(?) version of Emerald…’
So it’s YOU who is sending me all those emails about “R3plica W3tches good price” and “Buy Vig3ra online ; best price”?
El
Sep 4th, 2010
Thanks for the tips, guys. I’ve tried Phoenix, and as you’ve said, it pretty much replicates Emerald for ease of use. I’ll work off Phoenix for the time being, but on first entry, it looks familiar (i.e much lke Emerald) and user-friendly.
We
Sep 4th, 2010
@El
Phoenix basically is Emerald, and is made by some of the old Emerald team (the ones who weren’t causing the problems), and some new people. Right now it’s basically straight up Emerald, but it should be slowly getting some new features.
had enough
Sep 4th, 2010
This whole phoenix viewer reminds me of a RL construction company that got their tits in a wringer over a con job and lost their ability to bid on state projects. So what do these companies do? They change the company name, place a woman or minority as a puppet owner and go back to their same old bull shit.
I think that it is the same old emerald fur fags who changed their fur fag names and changed the name of the viewer and yes, will soon be back to their same old bull shit once the dust settles.
We
Sep 4th, 2010
@Had enough
I would disagree, but at the same time I would agree that they shouldn’t expect people to come galloping back, they’re going to need to re-earn the trust that was lost by the mere relation to Emerald.
One of the key names of their team really is Lordgreggreg, who if you remember, was the one who left over the emkdu scandal, posted the blog post about it, and became a public critic of Emerald. He gained a lot of trust among people there by showing that he wouldn’t stand for this stuff, and I doubt he would have joined the team if it was just a regrouping of the old team under alts.
Nobody Really
Sep 5th, 2010
@ We
I guess I am more cynical than you. Yes, LordGregGreg did make a big deal over leaving the team. Maybe too big a deal. He was part of the team for how long? And he knew nothing of the BS that was going on? Right.
Perfect setup though. He has the best (least tarnished?) reputation, so cue the Dog & Pony Show – LGG bails in a media blitz as the team quietly regroups behind their alts…
Until there is RL identity confirmation involved, there will never be a hint of safety with a TPV. Think about it – The login page was used to launch an attack on a rival site. You know, that same login screen where you enter your password… Just sayin’.
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 5th, 2010
@ Nobody Really
“Think about it – The login page was used to launch an attack on a rival site. You know, that same login screen where you enter your password… Just sayin’.”
No, that’s… no, you’re doing it wrong.
Judge Joker
Sep 5th, 2010
“Fractured Cresci” suffering a torrent of abuse meant to be directed at Fractured Crystal http://bit.ly/byirDy
Judge Joker
Sep 5th, 2010
“Emerald Floggers” recap circa 2009 http://bit.ly/dBOxqE
Judge Joker
Sep 5th, 2010
And not to forget, love letters can be sent to phox@emeraldviewer.net
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 5th, 2010
@ Judge Joker
No thanks, I prefer my current IP and email address to be kept out of Phox’s hands.
Fingerer
Sep 6th, 2010
The worst part of this whole sorry saga, and let’s face it, it really is a mess, is that Prokofy gets to say “I told you so”.
I’d rather be a hapless victim of a DDoS attack than have to hear that.
I guess the lesson is; if you hate everything, eventually you’ll be right about some of it.
For someone so hostile to Open Source, free speech, heaven forbid, having an opinion, one wonders how it can justify it’s own blogospheric existence.
Someone once knew how to deal with that kind of double standard…..
Hitler!
Pepper
Sep 6th, 2010
@Fingerer, the sad thing is, many people would be delighted to say that Prokofy warned us about Emerald and was right..but Prok is too busy ranting once again about open source commies to have the grace to let us say it.
Dave Bell
Sep 6th, 2010
Agreed, the Phoenix team shouldn’t expect Linden Lab to make it easy for them. But it does look as though they will meet most of the conditions that were imposed on the Emerald team with what they’ve already done. As for things such as RL identities, I can see some point in requiring something more than the normal account-creation and age-verification: much easier for a lawyer to work with.
If Linden Lab had that sort of info about Fractured Crystal, the Public Defender might already be telling him to STFU.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
I just find it hilarious to see how many of the pious fingerpointers readily admit to breaches of the Kakadu/Linden Labs license by hiving llkdu.dll it out of 2.0 and into their third party viewers.
That is, if the viewers themselves haven’t already incorporated it for them. “Ouch”!
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You know who else said that? Hitler… right before they banged in the nails!
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Jocelyn Pawpad
“… hiving llkdu.dll it out of 2.0 and into their third party viewers.”
What?
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
So I left the word “it” in there by mistake. Is that whut you’re having so much trouble with?
Or are you getting in my face again because you wish to take exception to something else I’ve said? Something about the practice of unspecified non-Emerald clients encouraging their users to indulge in a little petty white collar theft, is that it?
Since you’re here, you can also tell me if Ascent have sorted out that issue they had with non-working voice and non-working media yet. Might I suggest if this is still an issue for you, you might consider trying out Emerald?
giggles
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Jocelyn Pawpad
No, I was just trying to stupidly figure out what you were trying to say. Now that you clarified, it makes even less sense. Thanks anyways.
I know how to use formatting, therefore I am cool.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Dunce
- “No, I was just trying to stupidly figure out what you were trying to say. Now that you clarified, it makes even less sense.”
Of course it wouldn’t. You screamed long and loud to give copybotters free reign by removing CDS. It shouldn’t come as any surprise to learn that you would be a staunh advocate for all third party viewers rights to use unlicensed copies of software also!
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
giggles you walked into THAT one, didn’t you Nelson?
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
So… hows the voice and media plugins in Ascent working again? I’m sure there are “less buggy” clients you might like to try….
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Jocelyn Pawpad
I didn’t really argue against CDS, it’s just obviously an overpriced scam that shows the result of privatization of copybot policing. Instead of offering the technology to the Lab (which isn’t really technology, it’s actually just an undocumented QuickTime exploit), Skills just partnered up with the Emerald team and now the Emerald team has the ability to ban anyone they please from hundreds if not thousands of vendors who were scammed out of their money on an overpriced hack that violates SL policy. It’s a lose-lose-lose situation for everyone.
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
Oh, by the way, it’s easy for experienced copybotters to bypass it, so, y’know, it’s worthless. And I don’t even use Ascent for watching movies because it won’t work with my movie player. But hey, neither will Phoenix or Emerald.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Nelson
- “isn’t really technology, it’s actually just an undocumented QuickTime exploit”…”it’s easy for experienced copybotters to bypass it”…”I don’t even use Ascent for watching movies because it won’t work with my movie player”…
Aure you sure that’s the only reason?
Naw, don’t answer that, I really don’t care to know. It’s most likely something to do with the inherent bugginess of Quicktime (heh), peculiar to your system in much the same way as Emerald and its forks deliver rock solid performance on my machine where few (if any) other viewers can.
Let me guess, I’m going to have to drag an admission from you that you’re too frightened Fractured might hack your Vivox if you use voice? That would make your viewer’s inability to represent it as a feature, not a bug, yes?
Judge Joker
Sep 6th, 2010
@Nelson Jenkins
Jocelyn is what one might call girlishness fanaticism wrapped in a choke of insanity, that is if you are indeed a real girl.
Because to be able to spout such bollocks effortlessly and breathlessly is a feat in itself, and would require some kind of
training, and as I don’t believe your both singers engaged in breath training that would leave one other alternative, that you both have been spending all day at Emerald Point training with erotic asphyxiation.
Noor Loam being the dominant partner of course.
To bad Second Life is not real because that might have gone some way to explain your brain damage, other that we fear you might be acting it out in Real life.
It makes one wonder what kind of things really do go on at Emerald Point, if your both the “premium” quality fan girls you appear to be,
and surely it’s no wonder it’s so popular if Fractured Crystal & Phox appeal to the kind of creeps that crawl out of that shit hole to “get off” on being dominated and shit on publicly by people who actually require more from a Virtual World than there next sexual fix.
See for yourself:
Noor Loam: http://world.secondlife.com/resident/c7da9d1a-88b7-46d1-b482-4ebebb7bdf25
Jocelyn Pawpad: http://world.secondlife.com/resident/1a52b48c-ed4a-4983-abf5-2296bb741a25
Jocelyn Pawpad: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”?
Mind if I cast all 10?
While most of us require a stable and productive working & social environment, you both seem to take pleasure in the more perverse and degrading aspects of Second Life, and while that’s not a crime or something I’m against when it does not involve a TOS violation or anything morally reprehensible.
It becomes morally reprehensible for you to both bring yourselves out into the mainstream in order to perversely “get off” on a given situation, where there are adult and mature residents who actually require more than being degraded and publicly humiliated and are asking for Linden Labs to deal with these issues that DO require more than a sex paddle to solve.
I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to anyone who’s shy and not had their say, to publicly chastise these two people who
are giving us the impression that all Emerald Users are the scum of the earth and only craw out from the deepest dark caverns of Fractured Crystals arse when forced too.
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Jocelyn Pawpad
Only reason for what?
I don’t use Emerald because I think (along with an exponentially-growing number of residents) that it’s dangerous. I don’t use Phoenix because I dont yet trust Jessica 100%, even though I recommend it for ex-Emeralders. I primarily use Ascent because it has some good tools for developers and a refreshingly new interface (not to mention the main dev is friendly, easily-accessible, responsive, and trustworthy). I occasionally use Snowglobe because the business from which I buy movies uses a DVD player that only works with official vanilla viewers and Snowglobe.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
@Nelson
- “Only reason for what?”
For not using voice. Sheesh, learn to read whydoncha?
@ Joker
- “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? Mind if I cast all 10?”
You aren’t without sin; you’ve bourne false witness against your neighbour.
Of course, I don’t expect that to stop you. Keep calling for backup, yellowbelly!
kisses
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Jocelyn Pawpad
You didn’t mention voice until 2 paragraphs down. Learn to type first, please.
Also, ahaha, false witness, that’s rich.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
@Nelson
- “You didn’t mention voice until 2 paragraphs down. Learn to type first, please.”
And I had to ask you three times before it seeped into your reptilian brain that I was asking you something you STILL haven’t answered.
Lets check, shall we?
comment one
“Since you’re here, you can also tell me if Ascent have sorted out that issue they had with non-working voice and non-working media yet.”
comment two
“So… hows the voice and media plugins in Ascent working again?”
comment three
“Let me guess, I’m going to have to drag an admission from you that you’re too frightened Fractured might hack your Vivox if you use voice? ”
I believe the questions were explicit. Unless you’re batting with an IQ in the lower sixties, I don’t see how you could have missed it. Learn to read.
- “Also, ahaha, false witness, that’s rich.”
It also happens to be true. Inconvenient, but true nonetheless.
You know, I’m beginning to think you’re nothing but a loudmouthed troll. Can you assure me this is not the case?
(I wonder how many times I will need to ask him THAT before I get an answer…)
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
Perhaps this will answer your question:
Hey guys! Emerald can’t be that bad because I know how to format my post needlessly.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
It doesn’t answer anything. All it shows is you have no problem with appearing desperate by dragging in irrelevant and fallacious arguments when all your others have failed.
I’d like to think that perhaps you’d think twice next time before you force yourself in on someone elses arguent to push your own highly biased and unsubstantiated rhetoric, but something tells me you simply aren’t that bright. Never mind, I am sure I can look forward to many long and joyous months of swatting you off my stockings while I and my in-world companions have a good laugh at your expense.
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
And I will look forward to LL and most of its customers disagreeing with you. Bye then.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
Oh, are you off? Drat it, I wus only just getting to know you!
No-one is to make any disparaging comment about Nellie being a wussy, is that clear? He’s tried ever so hard to redress his error of getting in my face with his unsolicited palaver and he is to be afforded every opportunity to straighten up and fly right.
Just like whut was done with Phox, Fractured and anyone else on the Emdev team. We are reasonable and forgiving people after all, are we not?
snicker
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
I wish I, or anyone else on earth with at least the mental capabilities of an ape, had any clue what you’re on about.
Jocelyn Pawpad
Sep 6th, 2010
Oh, you’re still here then! That’s a relief.
Don’t trouble your head so, a bear of little brain such as yourself should stick to his fairytales and leave the intellectual stuff to those with intellects significantly above those of the apes to which you aspire.
And you STILL haven’t answered my questions. I guess I can ask them of the owner of the Ascent client, he seemed like a personable enough chap when I talked to him. Certainly he wasn’t getting about with LLC Fraudular Systems in his groups, but then neither I understand (to the mirth of many) are you these days. Why IS that I wonder?
You do realise of course that I am going to keep responding for pretty much as long as you do, yes? Or is that particular intellectual leap part of your impending upgrade from reptilian to primate brain? Just curious.
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Jocelyn Pawpad
“Oh, you’re still here then! That’s a relief.”
I know, right? I waste my time trying to teach something to someone that doesn’t want to be taught. It’s a wonder I actually bother.
“Don’t trouble your head so, a bear of little brain such as yourself should stick to his fairytales and leave the intellectual stuff to those with intellects significantly above those of the apes to which you aspire.”
Fairytales, yes… yet you’re still in your own little world, totally ignoring me, the Lab, most ex-Emeralders, and even the ex-devs themselves (pretty much everyone has admitted that it was a DDoS except you, Arabella, and Phox, for example).
“And you STILL haven’t answered my questions.”
I will now take the liberty of going through your recent posts and answering every single question followed with a question mark directed at me that I can find.
“So I left the word “it” in there by mistake. Is that whut you’re having so much trouble with?”
Yes. It may be helpful profreading your comments before posting to them, just. Tip for helping understand other people your opinion.
“Or are you getting in my face again because you wish to take exception to something else I’ve said?”
Not really, no, because I didn’t understand what you said. Now that you’ve helpfully corrected your mistake, I would like to ask what you’re talking about, because I don’t think the Lab endorses using llkdu in third party viewers.
“Something about the practice of unspecified non-Emerald clients encouraging their users to indulge in a little petty white collar theft, is that it?”
Oooh, so it’s the third party viewers’ devs’ fault. And? I don’t understand how it would be possible for Kakadu to sue a third party viewer dev, because they never entered a contract and they are causing absolutely zero monetary damages. Linden Lab may choose to enforce it, but they don’t have to, and Kakadu can’t do anything about it.
“Since you’re here, you can also tell me if Ascent have sorted out that issue they had with non-working voice and non-working media yet. Might I suggest if this is still an issue for you, you might consider trying out Emerald?”
Voice seems to work fine for me, as does normal parcel media. I still don’t know what you’re on about, but then again, since nobody can vouch for your story and you can’t provide even a screenshot of something that may vaguely pass as proof, I’m inclined to think you’re just insane. Also, I didn’t answer this originally because – guess what – it had no relevance, and I assumed you were just trolling.
“you walked into THAT one, didn’t you Nelson?”
Oh my god, you’re absolutely right. I sure as hell did. Good thing you pointed that out, or I wouldn’t have noticed that you’re totally wrong, which I explained in a later post.
“So… hows the voice and media plugins in Ascent working again? I’m sure there are “less buggy” clients you might like to try….”
I have numerous clients installed on my system (including several Emerald versions, Emergence, and Phoenix, but only on a virtual machine). Ascent just happens to be the one I enjoy using and trusting the most. I have tried most reputable public clients.
“Aure you sure that’s the only reason?”
Yes, I “aum” pretty sure.
“Naw, don’t answer that, I really don’t care to know.”
Oh, sorry. Hey, wait a second, isn’t that the question you were pestering for me to answer a bit later?
“Let me guess, I’m going to have to drag an admission from you that you’re too frightened Fractured might hack your Vivox if you use voice?”
I personally don’t give a shit. If he wants to listen to me talk, well, that’s pretty creepy. If he wants to inject himself into my conversation, well, that’s great, but I would just mute him anyways. And it’s not like I use SL or Vivox for private conversations, anyways.
“That would make your viewer’s inability to represent it as a feature, not a bug, yes?”
Emerald revealing your installation directory so helpful developers can inform you that you’re using an out-of-date version is also a feature, right?
“Sheesh, learn to read whydoncha?”
It’s hard to read the scribblings of an illiterate, brainwashed moron.
“And I had to ask you three times before it seeped into your reptilian brain that I was asking you something you STILL haven’t answered. Lets check, shall we?”
Welp, here’s your answer. Apparently it was too difficult for you to actually do any research (although, this doesn’t really surprise me, given your track record of minimal correct statements), so you had to wait for my answer, which you will most likely attempt to dispute.
“You know, I’m beginning to think you’re nothing but a loudmouthed troll. Can you assure me this is not the case?”
Sorry, I can’t. It’s what I do.
“Oh, are you off? Drat it, I wus only just getting to know you!”
Nope.
Now that that’s over, let me continue with your last comment.
“I guess I can ask them of the owner of the Ascent client, he seemed like a personable enough chap when I talked to him.”
Wow, now that would be a pretty good idea. Something actually intelligent and reasoned came from your lips! Stop the press! Too bad you were probably being sarcastic.
“Certainly he wasn’t getting about with LLC Fraudular Systems in his groups, but then neither I understand (to the mirth of many) are you these days. Why IS that I wonder?”
I still don’t understand where people get this crack-pot idea that it’s particularly a bad thing. I only joined the group (as I did with many Emerald newsfeeds) to stay informed on up-to-the-minute happenings for my blog. Oh, that’s right, I keep forgetting I’m talking to a sub-ape who doesn’t understand the meaning behind “My groups are hidden. kthxbai”
“You do realise of course that I am going to keep responding for pretty much as long as you do, yes?”
Yeah, it boggles my mind why either of us actually continue to fight over this, because Emerald has obviously already lost.
Doctor Yootz
Sep 6th, 2010
uhm….what exactly was Jocelyns point again?
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Doctor Yootz
A null value.
Doctor Yootz
Sep 6th, 2010
I thought as much.
just wanted to be sure.
Fingerer
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Nelson:
I seem to recall Arabella DID finally admit it was a DDoS attack in the rezzed tv interview.
Her original denials were based on the information she received at the time from ‘the devs’ – presumably the upstanding and entirely trustworthy Ph0x & Fractured.
Understandable that she wouldn’t trust Google or Wikipedia for a precise definition because everyone knows databases can be hacked, corrupted and used for nefarious purposes. o.0
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Fingerer
Fantastic. I still won’t even consider trusting her with anything for the rest of her pitiful Australian existence on this planet.
Okay, so Jocelyn is equivalent to Phox and Phox alone.
Fingerer
Sep 6th, 2010
Most of us Australians are just descended from criminals…
I’ll let you work out the inference of that statement.
Tux
Sep 6th, 2010
Jocelyn, you seem to make as much sense as the following:
erf(-z) = -erf(z)
Your mindless babling shows a magical dedication that belongs only to a fanatic. Seriously, before responding, please look at the facts. And listen to what has been said. If this still fails, have your meds increased.
Nelson, ever feel like you have been talking to someone who has lost their mind?
Nelson Jenkins
Sep 6th, 2010
@ Tux
Yeah, I talk to myself a lot.
General Drama
Sep 7th, 2010
Personally I wouldn’t use any viewer produced by anybody who didn’t fully disclose their RL identity, at the very least for liability / risk management purposes. The whole “oh I can just poof into another alt when the shitstorm gets too hot” attitude is absolutely terrible for building trust. That half the grid was using a client produced by anonymous people just demonstrates the utter lack of rationality in most SL users.
Meh
Sep 7th, 2010
Think about it, General DramaLLama – with the Woodbury nuts running around hacking everything in sight, would you publish YOUR real name?
The shitstorms usually come from them, after all.
Kiddoh
Sep 7th, 2010
@Meh: lol, your facts are as straight as a flamboyant Chip n’ Dale dancer. The worst WU ever does with IRL information is go trick or treating at your house. I guess that could be a bad thing if you’re one of those fat people who only see Halloween as an excuse for acting like even more of fat fucks.
Judge Joker
Sep 7th, 2010
@Kiddoh
When are we going to get an alphaville herald article on Woodbury in Bluemars? with photos?? is your build not ready to show yet?
Bubblesort
Sep 7th, 2010
When I last checked OSG (a couple weeks ago), Woodbury’s sims were down. I wish I could check out their stuff on blue mars, but my computer is too lame to handle the awesomeness that is blue mars.
… and the part that Kiddoh left out was that they went trick or treating KGB style, just like back in the days of the glorious mother land. “Trick-or-Treating” is pinko commie speak for black bagging somebody and giving them atomic wedgies.