As Lindens Stand Down, SL SWAT Stands Up to Griefers.
by Alphaville Herald on 15/12/06 at 11:32 pm
What happens when the Lindens make good on their threat to stop responding to abuse reports — when all they offer us is their Rumsfeldian advice that we simply have to “pull up our socks” and stand up to one million unverified idiots that *they* let into the world while huffing their Northern California grown fatties and chanting “bring it on”? Who will protect us? Who do we look to then? Do we look to the giant corporations setting up shop in Second Life? Not likely, given that even IBM is allegedly in cahoots with ubergriefer Plastic Duck. (Sold their soul to get a few mega-prims. Tsk tsk.)
Herald readers can take heart in this: In this cruel dog-eat-dog griefer-strewn dystopia that is Second Life, WE have your back. Yes, we are the newspaper that cares. In the weeks to follow we will report on the numerous paramilitary organizations setting up shop to protect common SL citizens from griefers and worse. In this installment our Jessie stringer Donk Kongo (who broke the story of the griefing of the Big Brother hypervent) introduces us to SL’s SWAT, and their sworn enemies, the Gunfighters.
Donk Kongo: Hi
Francesco Voss: Hello
Donk Kongo: i wanted to interview you about your org
Francesco Voss: Sure. May I ask what is the occasion?
Donk Kongo: the secondlife herald has shown interest
Francesco Voss: ok no problem
Donk Kongo: can i get access ?
Francesco Voss: yes. just allowed you access
Donk Kongo: what can you tell me about SWAT
Francesco Voss: We are a group of SL citizens tired of constant griefing attacks. Many people are unable or unwilling to afford the shields required to be protected from well armed griefers. We offer solutions to those land owners, club owners who want security as well as anytime we are on patrol and see a griefer in action we immediately engage him.
Donk Kongo: How many members do you currently have ?
Francesco Voss: 21, Interviewing 3-4 at the moment
Donk Kongo: how do you train and equip them to do that work
Francesco Voss: We train on an individual basis. We know by experience the best weaponry and train each person individually on how to use them. We require shields and high tech pistols with each assault member. Just this monring I was training a member out here. 1 on 1. Quality control. Additionally we also have a group of griefers relentlessly attacking us every night. Provides an opportunity for our members to go up against them face by face. Last night we kicked them out 5 times. Until they got tired
They own the property right next to us, with the revolving balls.
Donk Kongo: a specific group ?
Francesco Voss: Gunfighters
Donk Kongo: and what do they represent ?
Francesco Voss: A bunch of well armed SL thugs. One of their most visible members is LMR714 Voyager
Donk Kongo: do they grief others.. or focus on swat?
Francesco Voss: I dont have any reports, yet, of them griefing others. We are focusing our attention on tracking these individuals. We have gained enough knowledge from them to stop many of their attacks.
Donk Kongo: do you patrol sandboxes ?
Francesco Voss: Not at the moment. We might in the future. Have to strengthen up the force at the moment and review the sandbox policies according to the TOS
Francesco Voss: Additionally, we have closed our open enrollment and made it on invitation only. We are looking for highly qualified individuals with knowleadge or learning capabilities. We only want the best of the best out there.
Francesco Voss: We test every person on an individual basis to see if they make the cut, and we train individually. You never know when a griefer will wish to strike.
Francesco Voss: We were born basically because of the lawlessness here in SL. The Abuse Report system has been highly criticized. Some clubs have security but not all. Many people get attacked just because a griefer wants to have fun. That is not acceptable.
Donk Kongo: how do you protect yuorself from violating the tos yourselves ?
Francesco Voss: We only attack griefers, we dont use any spamming weaponry. We act in self defense or in the defense of others.
You: does the tos allow that ?
Francesco Voss: If asked to leave we will. Additionaly we are actively seeking to be part of club, businesses, malls, casinos security teams, authorized by the sim owners
Nicolai Fierrens: When will those guys knock it off?
Francesco Voss: Just have to keep defending ourselves and fighting them off
Nicolai Fierrens: I guess so
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Donk meets the Gunfighters.
LMR714 Voyager: so tell me are u a member of the swat team or just strong dislike for pigs? I am asking cause i have a war going on with this pigs, and am looking for strong loyal members
Donk Kongo: I’m doing an interview for the sl herald
(Donk is introduced to Malaci Yoshiyuki)
Donk Kongo: may i ask you a few questions ? ..im from the sl herald
Malaci Yoshiyuki: and
Donk Kongo: we’re doing a story about you guys fighting swat
Malaci Yoshiyuki: rreaally
Donk Kongo: i was here for a battle the other night… might make a good story
Malaci Yoshiyuki: yea it might
Donk Kongo: what’s your beef with swat ?
Malaci Yoshiyuki: they banned us and they are wannabe pigs that talk to much
Donk Kongo: so it’s personal
Malaci Yoshiyuki: yep real personall i want stop fight till i see them lyin on the ground dead. u friends with them?
Donk Kongo: no I’m a reporter for a sl newspaper
Malaci Yoshiyuki: good i want attack u then
Donk Kongo: what ?
Malaci Yoshiyuki: u better move if u haha
Donk Kongo: why would you attack me ?
Malaci Yoshiyuki: if u where with them or are there friends or famly u go down with them
Donk Kongo: I’m with a newspaper doing a story… but heavily armed if you feel lucky
Malaci Yoshiyuki: hahahahahhhha
Prokofy Neva
Dec 16th, 2006
For the record, I oppose vigorously any and all of these resident-based police systems. They all suck, they are all unaccountable.
Uri, here you are, making common cause with the Sim Shadow Government again tsk tsk
And your friend IBM has already hooked up with the Alliance Navy — I tore em a second one for that:
http://eightbar.co.uk/2006/12/05/alliance-navy-operation-peartree-giving-back-to-the-community/
Artemis Fate
Dec 16th, 2006
“For the record, I oppose vigorously any and all of these resident-based police systems. They all suck, they are all unaccountable.”
I agree actually, their all just silly people who want to use their guns, but really there’s no call for that when a good scripted security system (or the SL land bans) is multitudes better than a trigger happy police team.
Really all these police groups are just the same thing as the griefers, except they’re trying to do it legally, if you can call it that.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Dec 16th, 2006
Wannabe cops are as much a menace as griefers. As Artemis says, same people – different clothes!
And to be quite honest I fail to see what the problem with griefers is. In my considerable time in SL I only ever called on LL for help in a single case of griefing – naturally it was a complete waste of time, as are abuse reports, bug reports, indeed any attempt to communicate usefully with LL. I’ve always taken the view that the TOS is so much hot air and realising that LL had neither the capability nor the willingness to enforce it – EITHER WAY – I have, ever since that first incident, taken the ‘law’ – such as it is, into my own hands.
A combination of security systems and ban lists takes care of the long term issues, and decent Shield systems with offensive capabilities take care of immediate needs.
Furthermore I have treated, and will continue to treat, wannabe cops in exactly the same way as potential griefers. No excuses, no BS, no mercy. In fact the way that LL, if they were anything other than a sad joke as far as ‘law and order’ was concerned, should.
Bob the Tomato
Dec 16th, 2006
I give ‘em two weeks, like every other previous – and to come – self styled “protection group” (ie griefers that pretend they’re good guys) that are just a bunch of 14 year olds with guns that think it’s cool to walk round showing everyone just how big your weapon is.
Evidently having an elementary command of the English language isn’t one of the membership requirements of this group either.
I guess nobody told them that you can’t die in Second Life, you just get teleported home.
Bob
Artemis Fate
Dec 16th, 2006
Really, i’ve never seen these anti-griefer groups offer anything new from all the hundreds before them that all failed.
Basically it’s always just “We’re the best of the best and we have rigorous training with the best push weapons”, which is great and all, except if you want to defend a club, using normal push weapons risks shooting patrons, and non-physical tracking push weapons is the same thing that a security ball does, except not as well.
And yeah, that’s what you want in a protection agency, one that has it’s OWN griefer group to bring with it when it protects your club. Certainly, you can’t wait for REAL griefers to show up. I imagine if these guys go work at a club, that the other group the “Gunslingers” or whatever, are going to want to go and kill them there, thus giving the club a regular source of griefing that they wouldn’t have had without the protection group.
FlipperPA Peregrine
Dec 16th, 2006
…and yet another role play police group that “deals with griefers” by griefing and using griefer tactics. Old news, seen it a few hundred times already. Just do a search for “police” some time in the Bulletin Board section of the old LL forums archive. Bold (not) prediction: they won’t make it through the first half of 2007.
Regards,
-Flip
Jesse Malthus
Dec 16th, 2006
I don’t even think that they’re roleplaying.
I mean, even respectable greifers like myself think these people are jsut plain stupid.
SBS & XI
Dec 16th, 2006
SBS and XI where the best at protecting the sandboxes about 6 months ago- this SL SWAT…. I don’t even see them in the most problematic spaces.. oh wait never mind my group has it covered ;D
Tony G. Morrus
Dec 16th, 2006
For the record guys, not ALL of the anti-griefer groups have failed- take SLPD (before they where taken over- made it through a year now) for instance, or SBS(disbanded out of bordem after a year and a half)- like that guy b4 me said.
John Endwahl
Dec 16th, 2006
I would agree that these groups are problematic. But one wonders if they’re real in the first place.
As it is, I’ve only seen one of these “Armies” and I’m not even sure that’s what they are. They do all wear the same uniforms and appear to all use the same weapons. They’re called SARDINE or something on that order and they’ve been appearing in Jessie, Nakama, Reuters and other places with some frequency. And no bluster or threats – they refuse to answer questions, and just go about scanning avies. I saw them shoot somebody with foam bullets and interrogate him in Nakama but mostly they go around scanning people and complaining about how boring it is.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 17th, 2006
SLPD is something I know a great deal about as they were my tenants on two properties in two sims, and in the end, I was forced to evict them for their rampant griefing and gadzillion trouble tickets.
What was particularly disturbing is that they were founded and run by a guy who claimed to be a RL policeman. That was freaky, as a lot of the stuff he did in SL was really abusive and didn’t bode well for his RL situation.
First tried to force his “protection services” on me (thanks but um…no thanks) then I discovered him renting. OK, well, anybody can rent who follows the rules. Which…they never did (the shooting thing was particularly hard).
What was really over the top is that they’d goad and incite neighbours who were not role-players, and wind up making those people shoot at them to get rid of them, then *they’d* be banned from the abuse reporting of these faux policeman.
I really hate this stuff. There is nothing more pompous and stupid and abusive than a bunch of kids and overgrown kids who are adults playing police.
Pierre
Dec 17th, 2006
You write Lindens dont “stand up to one million unverified idiots that *they* let into the world”. Its not YOUR (SLHerald and friends) world. Its THEIR and OUR (i am only 3 week here) world. Why makes it yours? I find your comments fascist. You think anyone new is bad. You want only that SL is a playground for your own SLH fantasies and games. You dont want new people. Grow up – SL is growing and its good for everyone. apart from you.
Harlequin Salome
Dec 17th, 2006
For the record, I am heartily displeased with being associated with these… wanna-be police, Prok. You need to please stop associating us with either “sandbox patrollers” or these…. wannabe mercenaries.
The Alliance Navy started as an anti-griefing force, but we’ve grown beyond that, and no longer strive to enforce order on those that don’t wish it. We tried that, and have, over time, realised that we don’t have the right to enforce our idea of peace on public land. Indeed, we have phased out any sort of push weaponry in our arsenal meaning we no longer have the ability to do such griefing acts, and our charter expressly forbids firing into, out of, or on safe land.
When and if someone requests our help, as has happened occasionally, we ensure a few things. One. That our presence is not known until is absolutely needed, hence we don’t get the people involved in our own inter-group issues. And two, we use security systems that at the very least don’t require our using weapons of a sort. We can, if the person wishes, but often our edge isn’t that we’re better shots, its that we’re in so many fights in a day that we can react to a chaotic situation quickly and without freezing up.
We do not, however, hang around in sandboxes, nor stand in clubs and use shields and push guns to deal with problems, nor to use cagers or anything else. Though Prok may take issue with our base in tethys and our old enceladus base, we do try our best to be good neighbors, and we definately try not to get involved in the affairs of SLers who do not wish it.
We have grown from n00bs in a sandbox with push guns, to being a basic military group. We do what we can to help SLers, without guns as much as we can, to a purely military group.
And to be compared to this SL SWAT group, another in a long line of groups like SBS, SLPD, and the infamous griefers masquerading as Malibu PD, and others.
As for this sudden fight with “gunfighters”… well, the AN has contact with most military and paramilitary groups in SL and I’ve never heard of either of them. Bluntly, it sounds like a way for the SL SWAT to go “Oh, well, if we leave they’ll keep griefing”.
Anyways, that being said, Prok, I must ask you, please. If you aren’t going to be up to date on the AN and its structure, rules, and aims, which have evolved over time, then I must ask you to please stop making assumptions about us.
I again will refresh my offer to you, to sit down and discuss the AN. I will be happy to describe our equipment, our methods, and our new goals with you.
Artemis Fate
Dec 17th, 2006
“then I must ask you to please stop making assumptions about us.”
Good luck on that one, you’d be the first.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 17th, 2006
I personally have no objection whatsoever to having a million unverified accounts. Bring them. And use land ban tools if they are asswipes.
The Alliance Navy *does* indeed attempt to enforce others by hogging a sim, its resources, and even its unfetterred and free access to Linden Land. This is reprehensible.
I have to burst out laughing at the notion that the AN does not “hang out in sandboxes” when one of its chief programs now is air-dropping boxes of freebies in sandboxes, imagining it is somehow a welcome, civic thing to do. It is not. And that’s why I called them on it in the IBM blog. Huh? Airdropping shit in sandboxes? With all the shit in them? Making it hard for these Lindens policing sales to have to turn over stuff? Dropping freebies in sandboxes, in my view, is as as wrong as using them to sell stuff — if you’re going to posit THAT is wrong (I’m for ending all these quality-of-life crimes in SL and have the Lindens stop wearing themselves out on it and leave it alone — they should stop having so many sandboxes and let civic-minded people who want to run sandboxes do the job and police them better and more sanely). why do YOU get to clutter of sandboxes just to do branding for your RP group? Huh? Most people aren’t that tacky.
Harlequin, I don’t have to “make assumptions”. I have to merely fly over Tethys and see what you have done to that sim, and read what you write. I’m not required to sit down and endure your military propaganda. And you are using the same sort of fake argumentation that BDSMers use in manipulative ways by implying “nobody understands us” “we are so misunderstood” “we aren’t that way anymore or we promise we won’t be that way”. Bullshit! You’re a griefing paramilitary group? Imposing military RP where it is not wanted? Buy an island.
MSGiro Grosso
Dec 17th, 2006
I’m going to roll my 32 sided die to see if I can increase my stamina.
Thanks for making me chuckle, because SL continues to amaze me. Good or bad, the creativity running through here is amazing. Honestly, this ride is far crazier than the boat in Willy Wonka’s factory.
MSGiro
Proteus Hand
Dec 24th, 2006
Why sit here and rant? 1 the Second Life SWAT is not going to go away because you want it to. 2, larger, more seasoned militaries, such as the AN or Mercz are in a completely different category than the SLSWAT. Alliance Navy and the Merczateers are mammoth. Both of them sitting as the figurehead of their respective sims (Tethys and Hjalmer) and most of their members, and officers more than likely have NO idea whatsoever what it is like to be in such an insignificant force (save their founders).
I was head of a group of that size, and being in such a position leaves alot on your shoulders: “how will I grow? why would anyone join MY group instead of something large and established like the AN? how will I get gear? Where will I set up shop? What happens if I go to war?”
You have to lay down a mold for yourself, and set an example for your future legions. Training programs, strategies, weapons, land. They can do without the bombardment of the Alliance Navy for once.
Let them have their publicity with the SL Herald, hell, they need members.
Proteus Hand
Dec 24th, 2006
Oh, and Harlequin, no Mercenary is a wanna-be Mercenary.
all you need is a gun and a deal.
unfortunately, that’s the truth, but it’s not the same as military, so you wouldn’t be familiar to it.
Being a Mercenary is like being a salesman. Your ability to fulfill your task quickly and efficiently is equivalent to the quality of a merchant’s wares. Currently the TVMF is going around combat areas looking for people with exceptional combat skills and asking them if they’d like to possibly do what they love to do for a salary.
think of using shields and autokillers as putting cheap, foul tasting ingredients into the food that you bake. It’s still food, but it is made quickly, and doesn’t have the artistic flavor of real effort and skill.
Unless the mercenaries originated from a SLSALT military group, they wont follow SLSALT. I’m pretty sure SLSWAT has never heard of it, it’s okay, they’re new, they’ll catch on.
Harlequin, the sun will shine tomorrow morning if you don’t get your way for once, I promise.
-Proteus Hand
Raideur Ng
Dec 27th, 2006
I consider it good that more groups exist to be available to those who wish for protection or enforcement. Having more groups who follow strict rules and perform a duty of service to those who ask for it would violate no rules but simply be a service.
If they impose themselves, that is different.
Jerk
Dec 28th, 2006
lol.. you guys are a bunch of jerks… SL ? Police in that game ? go get a realLife your idiots.
Raideur Ng
Dec 28th, 2006
How very……umm..constructive of you “Jerk”. There is no shame in having some decency, even in a computer simulation.
Colbyson Kyomoon
May 13th, 2007
AN, SPARTA, AND MERCZ are at war with Commandos SL. We are much smaller then them and we are more prepared and better…. That is all I have to say….
-Captian Colbyson Kyomoon
Bruno Ziskey
May 18th, 2007
“AN, SPARTA, AND MERCZ are at war with Commandos SL. We are much smaller then them and we are more prepared and better…. That is all I have to say….
-Captian Colbyson Kyomoon”
Wow, despite you being a total moron for saying such stupid things, this is a very old article, why are you even commenting on it? Sparta will take you on any day, despite that you orbit and use other griefer weapons when you attack, while we do not.
Bruno Ziskey
King of Sparta
warm fuzzies
May 18th, 2007
LOL. Well this was all very interesting. But except for one comment, no one really touched on a very obvious aspect to this. That one comment was:
“I consider it good that more groups exist to be available to those who wish for protection or enforcement. Having more groups who follow strict rules and perform a duty of service to those who ask for it would violate no rules but simply be a service.” – Raideur
I do respect those who consider such service groups to be griefers. I don’t necessarily agree, but I won’t argue. However…
We are constantly told this is OUR world. Except of course, when someone griefs you. Then if you dare to fight back the you might be banned yourself. That’s understandable because it’s hard for LL to figure out who was griefing who. Except you’d think after a while certain users would build track records and the griefers would be known. Except that of course LL allows ANYONE on the system with no particular ID requirements except a never-used email address, which allows griefers to conceivably set up dozens of ready-to-use alts, which makes them very difficult to patrol if no other security measures are in place.
BUT… if this is OUR world, then club owners, private land owners and home owners have every right to protect their property, don’t they? If a club owner puts up a sign that says “Beware of Guard Dog” and a griefer gets attacked by a scripted attack dog, hey, he’s been warned right?
At the same time, if a club decides to hire a swat team member to act as a heavily-armed-bouncer and take care of the riff-raff, if it’s OUR world, they have that right, yes? It’s their club. They’re paying for it. So no matter how other people feel about it, they have no more say in it than anything else that goes on in the club. Some might consider an onsite swat team as “freedom of expression”, just like they consider so many other things on SL.
Read the post from the Gunfighter rep above. It’s pretty obvious this guy is not working with a full deck and has to use weapons to try to prove his worth. It is equally obvious he is going to attack anyone he wants to attack, for whatever imaginary reason (or just for the sheer meanness of it), and has no conscience at all regarding the matter. So if a Swat team decides to hire itself out to protect people against such known-but-not-ousted griefers, then who is to say that club owners can’t hire them?
It’s an old conflict. If LL doesn’t protect people, do they have a right to protect themselves? Does LL have enough anti-griefer staff to handle millions of users? Do people have the right to play a part of SWAT members if they want to, and do other people have a right to hire them for protection?
Come on people, it’s a game. LOL
Broll
Jun 22nd, 2007
“Come on people, it’s a game. LOL”
I dont think so…….. it’s more of a mirror.
random person
Jan 16th, 2008
This is really sad. It’s just a game, for God sakes. Why does everybody form all these stupid paramilitary groups anyway? They only do this for personal goals. STUPID!!!!!
Coucher Chau
Jan 17th, 2009
This is all very, very sad …
In real life, common residents are not allowed to run around in police uniforms and misrepresent themselves as REAL PUBLIC SERVANTS–i.e., cops!
This all sucks, I am very disappointed those in authority in secondlife allow such pseudo-criminal activities. Personally, I have been griefed to a much greater degree by those displaying “S.L.P.D” (or some other public servant misrepresenting text displayed about them) than by the real griefers themselves!
It is time for the Lindens to get tough on these bozos and ban them!
Regards,
(RL) John Smith
Trexon Lyvette
Jun 3rd, 2011
*bump* well, it seem that not many of you have seen a real griefer. If you want to see real griefing, go on down to Dover, to the furry club Castle Dark Haven. or IYC, that may be even worse. Oh, and while youre at it, wear a human avi if you havent already. My army, the Anti Azwar Alliance, AAA for short, is different not in tactics, but in purpose. To put an end to the real griefers. If you dont want hit, dont get between us and the targets. Thats all i have to say on the matter.