updated: We didn’t Want You to Know This, But Agitators Will Be Banned
by Alphaville Herald on 01/04/07 at 10:37 pm
Op/Ed by Urizenus Sklar
Most people in the Second Life infosphere have heard that SL agitator and SL Herald contributor Prokofy Neva has been banned from the Second Life Community Convention in Chicago. The exchanges between Prok and the FIC have been pretty off the hook (on both sides), so we can understand why some people don’t want her there, but the step from not wanting to banning is a very unsettling step for what advertises itself as a “community convention.” The justification being offered does nothing to make the decision less troubling. In a post to Second Citizen, our friend FlipperPA Peregrine first says that the organizers didn’t intend to make Prok’s banning public, and then offers up a justification that establishes a dangerous precedent that really needs to be rethought.
The SLCC attorney, who’s legal opinion I respect much more than anyone (he’s with Buchanan Ingersoll), said it would be wise to avoid any situation in which such an agitator, who loves to push peoples’ buttons, is allowed in a room with those she agitates, especially since conventions such as these include alcohol.[emphasis mine]
The idea that the banning would be secret is troubling enough, but the notion that it is unwise to have an agitator in a space where the agitated are present is in effect a prescription for insulating people from anyone who provokes them. The subtext seems to be that the real concern is that with alchohol being served there is some danger this agitator could be harmed by the other participants. That isn’t grounds for banning the agitator, it is grounds for either not serving alchohol or hiring adequate security to keep thin skinned drunks from harming Prokofy.
Beyond the precedent, it seems absurd to me that the Second Life Community Convention cannot tolerate the presence of a 50 year old woman who works for the United Nations and just last weekend was a speaker at Columbia University.
I call on Flip and the other organizers to think carefully about the precedent being established, and also about the broader philosophical implications of the decision. As it stands, the decision and justification appears positively Orwellian.
update: A statement from SLCC’s Randy Moss says that no one will be banned: http://slcc2007.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/registration-will-be-open-to-all/
(Flip’s statement is below the fold.)
As I’ve pointed out several times before:(1) It wasn’t our intention to make this public. Chances are, she would have boycotted again, and if she had registered, we would have tried to handle it quietly, politely declining her registration.
(2) Last year, our biggest day of registration was the day after she announced her boycott, with many registrants remarking that they would now attend since Prokofy would not be present. She really does intimidate a lot of people; not everyone can easily shrug her off.
(3) The SLCC attorney, who’s legal opinion I respect much more than anyone (he’s with Buchanan Ingersoll), said it would be wise to avoid any situation in which such an agitator, who loves to push peoples’ buttons, is allowed in a room with those she agitates, especially since conventions such as these include alcohol.
(4) Verbally assaulting Kendra at SLCC1, while Kendra was minding her own business eating lunch, is what I would consider absolutely impolite and unacceptable behavior. While the cross against Aimee and I was really funny – I kept laughing – verbally assaulting people in RL like she does in virtual spaces is NOT acceptable.
Prok’s been trying to tone down and mainstream her image lately, which I applaud. One day, hopefully, her behavior will be actually socially acceptable (just look how few blog entries she’s made lately). That still doesn’t forgive the years she’s spent trying to harm people by being a lying curmudgeon.
Regards,
-Flip
Mem
Apr 1st, 2007
Well gee Uri ok, from reading Prok’s last comments in the Herald itself I can’t for the life of me imagine why they’d proactively ban her from SLCC this year.
Prok- “I think I could beat you, though Flipper, …probably with a lucky kick while you’re looking at something else.”
That sure sounds like premeditation for a unprovoked surprise act of physical violence.
Prok-”And I have no doubt that I could demolish this little pathetic dweeb Nightshade. So look out, better keep Aimee by your side.”
Umm right, they sure don’t have any reason at all to ban Prok. Nope, no thinly veiled, less than subtle, threats of violence and harm in the above comments from her hey?
I’d feel perfectly safe to have Prok drinking her way through any conference I attended, no reason at all to think she’d waddle up unprovoked in the middle of a dinner and start calling names incoherently with slurred speech, spittle flying in a breaking hacksaw alto. (Oh wait Prok did that already at SLCC 1 didn’t she?) Yep, no reason to believe after the above quotes Prok’d ever snap and come at someone with a half full can of bud or a handy butter knife and “demolish” them “while they’re looking at something else” cause after all they are “true evil” using “BDSM Mind Control” to encourage over eating in the bovine population, leading of course to a world filled with “Fat Cows”11elevenity1!1
Yeah, Prok is as safe an sane as houses, truly.
urizenus
Apr 1st, 2007
Yeah, and I said I was going to open a can of whoopass on Flip cuz he was mackin’ on my Yellow Label Baby. Better ban me too. We’ve all seen the smack talk go in both directions, and for whatever reason that just is the discourse of cyberculture. Appealing to that as an excuse here strikes me as grasping at straws; the idea that Prok is a physical threat to anybody is a joke. But what do I know, maybe she has been taking kung fu lessions.
More importantly, if there is a genuine condern that this 50 year old woman was going to harm someone and that really was the the reason for her banning then THAT is what Flip’s statement should have said. But it didn’t say that. it said this:
“it would be wise to avoid any situation in which such an agitator, who loves to push peoples’ buttons, is allowed in a room with those she agitate.”
Nothing about danger to the audience from the ever dangerous Prokofy (Fists of Fury) Neva, but just a concern that she will “push” buttons and some drunk at the convention might harm her.
If you are going to take the draconian step of banning someone at least do it in such a way that you don’t set a precedent in which gadflies and agitators can/should be banned.
Misty McConachie
Apr 1st, 2007
That Second Citizen thread was quite a read.
You Americans and your love affair with free speech. I’m pretty sure that under Oz law many of those comments would be deemed defamatory.
I’m a relative newcomer to SL (I only discovered what the acronym FIC stood for the other day) and I have to say from afar it all seems very immature indeed.
Simone
Apr 2nd, 2007
You know, this is just nuts. I recently saw Prok in a public place, with others from SL, there was liquor… who approached whom? Who made a point of being irritating and immature in public? Wasn’t Prok.
And again at the conference. People who openly battle with Prok made a point of stepping up to speak with her in person. It was quite clear that resolution of issues was hardly their agenda.
I’m getting a little sick of Prok being made the heavy in all this. Last time I checked she’s not the one calling other peoples’ children at home and making threats. She’s not the one walking up to peoples’ RL homes and taking ppics of their front doors to ‘let them know’ she knows where they live.
She’s been a helluva lot more gracious about some of this than I would be. I gotta tell you if someone e-mailed me a pic of *my* front door and then approached me later in a public place, there’d be a need for someone to call a cop in about, oh…. .02 seconds.
Simone
Apr 2nd, 2007
I’m damn tempted to pay for Prok’s ticket, myself.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
Just to correct some facts:
1) Prokofy is he.
2) Prokofy’s typist doesn’t work “for” the United Nations. I never inaccurately describe what I do in that way, and that’s a function of people’s misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of how the UN works. I explain that I work *at* the UN with NGOs with consultative status. That’s like being an observer. You don’t work “for” the UN bureaucracy itself, i.e. as an international civil servant. You work *at* it as an observer. And yes, I’ve spoken countless times there. There are thousands of people with some status like this all over it.
3) It doesn’t matter where I work. The point is, I’ve spent my whole life without any kind of “misdeameanor” or any kind of police record — unless you count being arrested in the old Soviet Union merely for going into an apartment to meet with a group of dissidents — and hey, that’s what this is like! It’s insane. I’ve worked all over with all kinds of passes and clearances. It’s just plain idiotic.
What’s really sick about this is how each individual member of this “organizing committee” hides behind the other, and doesn’t take responsibility. Jeska Linden is on it — but says it’s not her. Flipper says it’s all his lawyer. etc. Shirking responsibility. Despicable.
What’s astounding about this is that the SLCC organizers are prepared to let in really odious fucktards like Joshua Nightshade, who has taken my RL picture and defaced it and been totally gross to me, and stalked me, and sent me pictures of my real-life door (this is where it is like Kathy Sierra), but he’s tolerated by this bunch. W-hat assholes who grief and crash the grid and deface my RL picture and harass me and call me at home are tolerated and even celebrated for their machinima or whatever. All of them are far trouble than me, given their proven capacity for liquoring up and harassing people in sickening ways.
Last year, I boycotted the SLCC for some very good reasons you can read about on my blog.
This year, I hadn’t even gotten around to thinking whether it was worth boycotting, ignoring, or going, after finding out that this ban that Jennyfur bragged about months ago was now being announced formally.
The FIC has really always gone too far. It’s always been important to fight it as hard as it can be fought. People have their different strategies. Some ignore them and they go away in a kind of way just for them. Some flatter them and get what they want out of them.
For me, it’s a matter of principle. These fucktards should never, ever, ever have been allowed to behave as they did with impunity on the LL forums for the years that they bullied and harassed not only me, but countless other newbies. The Lindens gave them an enormous pass because they were featured mascots, signers of NDAs, top content creators needed for the platform development — whatever. A disgrace.
Now they’ve created a monster. It’s a monster that’s important to fight and defeat. Not defeating it leaves Second Life forever stamped as a game with fanboyz and wizards and mods and leveling up, instead of a real sort of place with a huge variety of uses and communities in it.
How can you fight it? I don’t call on people to boycott SLCC. I don’t think that more than 3 or 30 people would bother to display their principles, like 3-4 people have already, and I appreciate their stand (Mark Wallace, John Swords among them).
But you can’t get anything accomplished by boycotting in a setting with thousands of new people for whom telling the story isn’t a 140-character Twitter. So those who have principles should go and condemn them there publicly. Follow Walker’s example of writing on every blog about Kathy Sierra and saying “this is an insult culture gone off the rails”.
I fight “insult culture gone off the rails” by dishing it right back out at these kids. They can’t take it. They howl and scream. That’s the method I chose. It won’t be necessary for any of us to fight them in any way if more normal, decent, thinking people condemn their bullying and hysteria more frequently, and call them. Pour water on them and melt their wickedness in a jiffy.
Nethermind Bliss, on the SL Insider podcast has also taken a hugely political step in the way she’s come down on this issue, and with very bad precedent.
Basically, she says “this is a non-profit organization that gets to do what it wants”. It doesn’t *have* to represent all the community. Jennyfur says the same thing, astoundingly, that she found it such a chore to have to answer to people’s demands to be accountable:
” One of the problems with the SLCC is the use of the word community, which everyone thinks gives them the right to
tell us what to do… to criticize our every move… to call us jerks etc etc etc. I have regretted the use of the word
community in the title for quite some time now. We chose it and got stuck with it. Between Flip and myself we have
probably logged close to $100,000 USD in billable hours between organizing the SLCCs. Thats not even taking into
account all the other countless hours the other volunteers and organizers have donated.”
This is wrong, wrong, wrong. Those who assume leadership of communities have to take accountability. That also means being inclusive and finding ways to track people who conflict so they have minimal interaction. There isn’t any one community anymore, and those who are trying to define Sl in this high-school cliquish way only reveal their immaturity and the imbecility of Second Life as a platform when it comes to governance.
There are many communities and many channels. The RL police or the normal security you’d hire for any big event in a hotel can deal with those who act inappropriately, there’s no reason to pre-emptively ban anyone.
What this is mainly about are the figures of Aimee Weber, FlipperPA Peregrine, and Jennyfur Peregrine. And if the Lindens, the other organizing committee members, and newer, non-beta era residents can prevail over these prim divas and sectarians, they will be able to free Second Life from the bondage of the beta-test love-fest that cripples all games and worlds.
Akela summed up the scared FIC zeitgeist on his SL Insider podcast when he said that people are “intimidated” by my criticism and they have to have a community event that is “safe and secure” where they feel they can “let their hair down”. It’s always about making the insecure children of Second Life feel “comfortable”. It’s never about ever having a serious critique or freedom for all kinds of people to express themselves at all kinds of level. It’s always making sure the feted and cossetted spoiled young Linden pets prevail and keep the discourse at whatever tepid mediocre level they can comprehend.
Jennyfur really plays her hand with this one:
“The SLCC is not trying to be the be all end all pretentious metaverse event for all the metaverse stick up the ass types high on the scent of their own self-righteousness. Its a family barbecue for those who want to kick back have a good time with their friends, grab a drink and chat about Second Life. However, we just don’t want the creepy uncle showing up who touches us inappropriately”
I think many new people in SL these days, including all these big corporations and their staffs, don’t think of SL as a company picnic. And I’m sure as hell not thought of as any creepy uncle. That kind of meme can only belong to these hopelessly insular and parochial and provincial types who were first in SL.
It’s really important to break the back of this beast. It will be broken by people speaking out against it and holding the Lindens, the financial sponsors, the leadership, and all who remain silent accountable for using a 17th century custom of shunning in the 21st century.
Mem
Apr 2nd, 2007
Uri- “Appealing to that as an excuse here strikes me as grasping at straws; the idea that Prok is a physical threat to anybody is a joke. But what do I know, maybe she has been taking kung fu lessions.”
Or maybe she is really insane enough to truly believe all the false accusations and lies she continuously spews forth unprovoked, and maybe she has access to something stronger than internet histrionics.
If she truly believes there is real evil (as she’s oft times said she does) and that its justifiable to push back against them and attempt to verbally assault them in public venues. That its not only justifiable but her noble calling and destiny to “push back” as hard and by the strongest means possibe at all imagine slights. If she believes that at the heart of this vast hive is Aimee Weber, a kind soul whose only apparent crime in SL is to be well liked and respected, then whose to say she wont work herself into a alcohol fueled rage over some imagined wrong doing follow through on her threats?
Prok- “When dealing with the hive, you need to go to the Queen Bee. Want to fight the Incas? Take on the leader. If you can knock out the Queen Bee or the Inca Leader then the tribe crumbles.”
Cause we both know we’ve not seen any evidence of her threatening to assault someone when they aren’t looking or least expect it… oh wait… she did do that didn’t she? On this very blog no less.
People are hurt, maimed, and mauled by the seeming harmless everyday. Others with far less a history of threats and “pushing back” than Prok. You seem to make light of women over fifty, you apparently think of them as laughably harmless? That Uri is the joke.
In either event Flip has since made further clarifications in regards to Prok, since this is near and dear to you maybe you ought to read up on his statements as well as those calm, logically, restraint filled, posts of Proks in the same thread. You know the one’s where she is “pushing back” but hadn’t ever really been pushed by the very specific people she’s “pushing back” against? Y’know cause she’s stable and safe and harmless an all, cause y’know she’s a woman, and over 50 and we all know older women are harmless…
right?
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showpost.php?p=211157&postcount=402
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
Mem,
You really are ridiculous, unable to comprehend literature, unable to sanely assess any actual situation, and completely hypocrital in your actions. You seem to have a keen sense of indignation over the slightest hint of “violence”. I suggest you scan past Herald postings where grotesque things are said by “the Patriotic Nigras” and the W-hat and even fashionistas who talk about suffocating other fashionistas with pillows.
All of these thin-skinned hysterical children are afraid of their own shadow, they’ve obsessed about me so much and mystified me into some monster. It’s hilarious that they give the real stalking and sick monsters in their midst a pass. Those who witnessed this infamous exchange with Kendra know it was nothing more than a sharp exchange of words, such as any people who disagree would have at a conference.
Nacon
Apr 2nd, 2007
Look like someone heard me suggesting that She should be banned from everywhere.
(place here an evil laugher sound track)
Ok seriously… she is insane, it’s not the fact she can hurt people but drive people insane for mere attention like a redneck with …beers?
Urizenus said: “a 50 year old woman who works for the United Nations”
Oh that’s a good lie you got there, Urizenus. You’re still an idiot.
(Hmm… Still posted on April Fool’s Day, another poor joke on us again?)
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 2nd, 2007
This is pathetic of you, Urizenus. As was also stated in that thread, no decisions had been made at all and it was merely a suggestion made by their counsel.
But since when did you guys ever need to check facts?
Kerian Bunin
Apr 2nd, 2007
If you have read my comments in that SC post, you already know my stance, but I will restate it anyway.
I think it sets a pick and choose mentality in regards to community. It’s not far to going “Oh lets ban Kerian, hes one of those goons and is a total jerk. I’m sure hes going to grief our shindig”. Despite the propensity for conflict, in a SLCC with Prok attending, dealing with conflict is one of those things that adults occasionally deal with.
Espresso Saarinen
Apr 2nd, 2007
*if true*, and there are usually many sides to a story, this is pretty scary stuff. banning someone from one’s personal space is a personal choice. banning someone from public space in sl or rl is a rather fascist act.
and i am particularly suspicious of the lawyer line. seems to me the flip case can be made, this is a public affair and prok, as much as he is a pita, is part of the public and has assertable rights.
Kami Harbinger
Apr 2nd, 2007
So the Sheep are admitting, on advice of their lawyer, that they’re just a bunch of cowards who are likely to get drunk and assault middle-aged women who disagree with them.
I’d been strongly considering attending the SLCC, but if this is their policy, it sounds like it’ll be too spineless to be of any interest.
bluesapphire
Apr 2nd, 2007
Seems to me that this is not the only person who is a barrier to people attending. After last years SLCC, I was told a certain ‘sherpa’ was the reason a lot of people would not be attending the next years event.
Although I have never met Prokofy, I would be very cautious of censorship and banning. This is a worrisome episode, I would suggest a radical rethink and a public apology. If not, well I think the SLCC is a travesty of community spirit.
Who do they represent, the people on the board of organizers or the people attending?
I also heard they expellled the original founding father of the SLCC, mainly as he didn’t see eye to eye with one of the organizers wives?
BS
Mem
Apr 2nd, 2007
Maybe they just didn’t want her there because it would increase attendance and viewing enjoyment for everyone else? Sometimes you have to read in between the lines. Oh wait, that *was* one of the lines!
Maximilian Goldflake
Apr 2nd, 2007
Isn’t it ironic that Prokofy is a considered a RL griefer? I hope that they turn off build objects and scripts as well, just to be safe!
Inigo Chamerberlin
Apr 2nd, 2007
The revelation that ‘we’ intended to ‘handle it quietly’ is unfortunate. Actually it wouldn’t be SO bad if it was merely Flip and Jennifur’s own personal antipathy to Prok. But somehow this brings to mind a vision of a committee in closed session making ‘executive decisions’ behind closed doors.
It’s a good job that Prok’s FIC is a delusion, isn’t it?
One can only suppose that Flip and his committee (or whatever the decision making process is) has a long list of people who’d be ‘handled quietly’ if they had the temerity to attempt to attend SLCC… Indeed, there’s a lot of amusement to be had drawing up imaginary lists of who might be included. What a shame the vast majority simply aren’t interested in attending.
You’re right Uri – it stinks.
I’m afraid I’m one of those ‘I may disagree with what you say, but I’ll fight for your RIGHT to say it’ people. I don’t flaunt my ‘Liberal’ credentials, unlike some, because I don’t have any.
Indeed, I’m pretty much the opposite of ‘Liberal’. But there is no justification I can see for this sort of action, assuming the conference is being run in an organised and professional manner – with competent venue security (after all, alcohol IS being served…). Of course if it’s NOT being run in an organised and professional manner, why, that would be a whole other can of worms, wouldn’t it…?
What this stinks of, to me, is the wielding of power ‘because we can’ and with a touch of ‘settling old scores’. Unworthy is the least of it.
Jennifer McLuhan
Apr 2nd, 2007
Uri, I can understand how someone who would allow his fashion reporter write and publish an unprovoked trash piece that insulted and trashed someone for the great crime of being successful, would not understand the law of consequences. Prokofy Neva is only reaping what he has sowed.
If someone acts like an ass and, treats everyone as if they are somehow lower than dirt, it is expected that those who were subjected to such disrespect and venom would be reluctant to subject themselves to more of the same.
The woman who is the mind of Prokofy may very well be a respected translator and speaker. However, if she acts toward her RL acquaintances the way she has treated many in Second Life, then she is probably shunned by many of them in New York.
You claim she isn’t a physical threat to anyone. Verbal abuse is almost as bad. How many men and women have been subjected to verbal abuse by their spouses? Society rightly calls this wrong. Many a divorce has been granted because of verbal abuse. I guess SLCC has just divorced Prokofy’s RL avatar.
Jen
Mem
Apr 2nd, 2007
“Maybe they just didn’t want her there because it would increase attendance and viewing enjoyment for everyone else? Sometimes you have to read in between the lines. Oh wait, that *was* one of the lines!”
The above post was not made by me, rather a copycat for whatever reasons.
bluesapphire
Apr 2nd, 2007
What about the original founding father of SLCC, are you going to let him back too? Hiro is the real spirit of SLCC. I wasn’t going to name him, but Hiro is really missed, you should also have Boliver in the mix too. They wouldn’t let this happen, more people would come if IVM was in charge.
Having met him at this Fridays metaverse meetup, I can safely say I would be happier if a community event was in Boliver’s hands.
It would seem to me, this whole SLCC thing, is becoming yet another corporate picnic!
Free Prok!
Reinstate Hiro!
Give Boliver a chance!
A firm no confidence VOTE from me, please step down and let the real Second Lifers organize it this year!
BS
Mem
Apr 2nd, 2007
BS? Hiro is posting in OP’s link to the SecondCitizen thread, it doesn’t sound like he was ever ousted or that there is any ill will between him or the current organizers. I don’t think you’ve all the facts here. I’ve worked with Boliver in the past and found him a very respectable and decent fellow. I can’t speak for SLCC but I’d imagine they’d welcome any help from him, its all volunteer after all.
Whom qualifies for ‘real’ status by the by?
Onder Skall
Apr 2nd, 2007
I guess it comes as no surprise that I find this act absolutely disgusting. This ban praises fragility and mediocrity. I’m not at all surprised that they had intended to keep their shame a secret.
Also, WTF is this: “Prok’s been trying to tone down and mainstream her image lately, which I applaud.” Mainstreaming is a *good* thing now? Truly pathetic…
I had already lost interest in SLCC a week ago, after hearing the high-minded talk on the podcast about “toning down the fanboy action”. As if there’s something wrong about loving this stuff and just wanting to meet people and find out how things work. Also on the website – the “social track” page is blank… so… nothing of interest for us who are more interested in each other than in business or education? Of course, you now have my interest again by virtue of distain. Well done.
You want to know what would have been impressive? CALL HIS TYPIST UP. Seriously, if you’re so worried about somebody, you call them and sit down with them for a coffee. You explain that you want to create a certain atmosphere, and politely ask them for their help in that. You find common ground. You find compromise. You treat each other with some basic decency and respect.
Any less and you’re too feeble for this world, let alone to consider yourself an authority for anything. Step down and let somebody with balls handle things.
Recommendation: do the above. Arrange to meet the typist, smoke the peace pipe, and publicly recant. Show us that you’re not a rodent.
Forgive my venom but the praise of the bland is a sticky subject with me. We must never forget how critically important the passionate among us are. They make this world one worth living in, whether we agree with them or not.
Tenshi Vielle
Apr 2nd, 2007
What’s that I hear? Resounding cheers of “Hiel Hitler!!” from the sidelines? Hooray for you. S/he can go if she wants to. You shouldn’t be afraid of a person’s words, and if you are — well, you’re just weak minded. George Orwell is shaking his head right about now.
“Look like someone heard me suggesting that She should be banned from everywhere.
(place here an evil laugher sound track)”
Shut up, Nacon. Nobody gives two shits enough to listen to you. Shhhhhhhhhhhh….
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 2nd, 2007
Prokofy isn’t interested in being peaceful with anyone; the time for other people to kiss her ass to placate her is over. Prokofy isn’t passionate, she’s a lying psychopath who’s a destructive, threatening person. She’s demonstrated her inability to handle being rational in public when she’s sober, much less when she’s had alcohol.
From fleeing from me when I attempted to put aside our differences and say hello to her (and then later going around telling anyone who would listen a hilarious mis-mash of bullshit about how I’d sent around a photograph of her door — never happened) to holding up the sign of the cross at Flipper and Aimee and hissing that Aimee’s a fat cow as she stumbled around, Prokofy is clearly psychotic and dangerous. Any ban would be for the protection of other people from HER, not vice versa. Considering she’s threatened to kill at least three people who plan to attend, it’s a pretty simple concept to grasp.
FlipperPA Peregrine
Apr 2nd, 2007
First off, no final decision has been made. Our non-profit is officially only five days old. The conversation we were having considering it was leaked, and I was expressing why we were considering such an action. So please, let’s not jump the gun, unless there is somewhere you can point me to with an official announcement from the board? I mean, jeez, registration isn’t even up yet, and we’re still considering all options. Certainly, Prokofy’s maligning ways don’t help any of these situations, but don’t forget: Jennyfur and I were two of the original organizers to argued NOT to ban her in 2005, and allow her to attend, when there was significant pressure to do otherwise. So please, unless you can post to something better than an argument on some forum or vitriol filled blog, let’s wait on jumping to conclusions until the actual decision is made! This shouldn’t be reported as news; its a non-decision, one option that was discussed out of many. Par for the course here, I guess!
bluesapphire
Apr 2nd, 2007
Mem,
Hiro was asked to stepdown from the SLCC organizers panel, he was told in no uncertain terms that his services would be no longer required. His views and strong opinons ended up making a lot of waves, I suggest you look into your facts. Just like Prok, he upset a lot of the organizers in the first/second year of SLCC.
Boliver has tried to get involved, he was told his services would not be required. I suggest, if you know him so well, you ask him directly. He has made many attempts, he even phoned FlipperPA to ask him personally.
Sure, you can be involved as a volunteer, only if you’re on the “approved” list. I know I have tried too, I was told it was not an open process. The selection would be made by the panel, and that was that.
BS
urizenus
Apr 2nd, 2007
Flip, I’m glad to hear this isn’t final — that the decision is still being made. I guess I would ask that whatever the decision, the ingredients going into that decision establish precedents that we can live with. The concerns you list in that forum post are troubling to me. A community convention can’t be in the business of banning people who “agitate” or “push buttons.”
FlipperPA Peregrine
Apr 2nd, 2007
Glad to hear that, Uri. We wouldn’t take anything of this magnitude lightly, and I pointed out the reasons we’re pondering above. Once the conversations got out (grrr), I thought it was important to consider the rationale of why we would consider such a think. Many of the key organizers have been in Prokofy’s cross hairs for years, which honestly makes it tough to make an objective decision for the best of our organization.
We actually had our first board meeting during VW2007 (the non-profit that runs SLCC is officially named, “The Future United”), so really, there’s no way a final decision could have been made until now! For the record, Randy Moss is the President of our board, bringing his years of experience in non-profit work for the ACS and masters degree in event planning to the fold; having him head up the team is a no-brainer.
BS: I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but IVM sponsored and attended last year, and built the decentralized in-world view screen. Boliver was on a panel. That’s more involved that 99% of the convention attendees, heh. I caught up with both Hiro and Boliver this past weekend, and as far as I can tell, we’re still getting along fine. Do I have any delusions that EVERYONE will ever get along with one another? No. But there’s certainly no bad blood between us. When and how did you try to volunteer? I find people often claim to volunteer and that translates to replying to a forum post or blog. That ain’t the way to do it. We have a Google Group people interested can join here: http://groups.google.com/group/slccteam?hl=en Also, IMing one of us in world – or checking out our contact page, and emailing the appropriate party – would be much more effected. Who did you contact? Feel free to get in touch with me directly if you’re still interested.
Regards,
-Flip
forseti svarog
Apr 2nd, 2007
“So the Sheep are admitting, on advice of their lawyer, that they’re just a bunch of cowards who are likely to get drunk and assault middle-aged women who disagree with them.”
Kami — This has nothing to do with Electric Sheep. We do not control the SLCC, and none of the Sheep management team is involved in SLCC planning. It is well known that I argue with Prok all the time, and don’t always appreciate being on the sharp end of the stick, but I always enjoy meeting up with Prok in real life, where he shows much more willingness to engage in a back and forth and argue in good humor.
Personally, I am very much against this ban.
If the question is one of Prokofy’s safety, I would go so far as to take a shift accompanying Prokofy to make sure nothing untoward happened.
- Forseti Svarog aka Giff Constable
Onder Skall
Apr 2nd, 2007
Joshua Nightshade: rationalizing your inability to handle the situation is just sad.
FlipperPA Peregrine: arguing that you’re “just talking about it” hardly addresses the situation, nor is it confronting the issue at hand. A poor dodge.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 2nd, 2007
I have no difficulties handling the situation, whatsoever.
Quirky
Apr 2nd, 2007
I met Prok’s typist for the first time Friday night at the meet-up. I found that person to be a rational, intelligent individual, with sharp opinions about and a profound passion for the Metaverse. I can’t imagine anyone physically threatening [him/her] or feeling physically threatened by [him/her]. In my mind, that would be the only reason any indidivual should be banned from any public event in any open society.
I can’t imagine what kind of legal concerns might be at the core of this debate.
Since when are we all afraid of a little dissidence?
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
Flipper is now engaging in another BIG LIE. Go and read the back pages of Second Citizen. To say something is “leaked” when Jennyfur and Flipper THEMSELVES have bragged about how they have banned me is insane!!! Do they honestly think we can’t all go read Second Citizen threads?! Or are they busy erasing them? Jennyfur already announced months ago that they had decided to ban me. SHE publicized it. Flipper CONFIRMED it. They didn’t say “This isn’t a final decision” — that’s their cover story, Uri, and I can’t believe you’re falling for it. Don’t.
READ WHAT THEY’VE BEEN WRITING.
If they are now pedaling backwards and implying they can “get me in” if I “behave” I can only say: fuck the Peregrines. I am not on suffrance. That’s ridiculous. And I wasn’t banned from the conference in 2005 or 2006. I attended in 2005, and there was no discussion of any ban — this is made-up, after-the-fact stuff. In 2006, ditto. In fact, when I became very critical of it, some people involved in it even began to talk to me about how they should lobby for me to be speaking at it as a way to siphon off the criticism.
The criticism is simple and legitimate: it is a sectarian fanboyz’ conference with silly, juvenile activities on it that discredit the whole concept of SL. For some people, Second Life may boil down to getting drunk and pawing at Flipper and talking teledildonics with Cube Linden. Others want something more intellectually stimulating.
As for these other comments arrayed here — don’t imagine they are accidently appearing here. Truth in advertising here — Jennifer McLuhan is a friend of, and in the group with, Arahan Claveau, whose despicable “artwork,” involving celebrating somebody urinating on the Koran, I have been very vocally critical of. And I’ve also been vocal about Arahan’s curious support of W-hat griefing and penising, and even his trying to portray this as “art” of the “conceptual” kind when it’s just banality. He came on the forums and in the most bald-faced lying manner, claimed that the 25 people who were banned from Second Life from W-hat were banned “for their art” and this was an “artist’s cause.” This is just fucking retarded. They were banned for crashing the grid, harassing people, self-replicating objects, putting penises and tubgirls on people. Not art. Not art even by wacky Herald standards. Crashing the grid and sending tenants scattering with the tub girl isn’t “art” it’s a TOS offense and a misdemeanor at the very least in RL terms.
My criticism of him on the old forums, in the one column where I could still post comments (resident websites) led Torley to silence me, and leave his link to W-hat griefers to stand. And Jennifer then, getting very prurient and curious, came over on SL Home Page and began impudently demanding to know what my real gender was, what I did in RL, etc. etc. It was wrong. She was out of line. She got her ass kicked for doing that. You don’t get to prod and poke people and demand they “out their gender and RL”. It’s wrong, wrong, wrong. I push back when people do that. It’s wrong. People like Jennifer and her snivelling little supporters conveniently forget their well-documented bad behaviour, when she arrogantly said “I can’t help myself, I’m just curious and I need to know about Prok’s real life”. Why? Why do people get to be fucking assholes like that? And if you fight back, and people selectively focus on that, it’s their funeral. If they can’t page back through the forums, and want to tune in on the last chapter, that’s fine. If Jennifer McLuhan or Joshua Nightshade did this kind of prying and poking to THEM, they’d get it. Instantly.
Joshua Nightshade is a snivelling little liar. When Aimee sanctimoniously and hysterically gets up and says I am “making death threats” let’s parse what she means, shall we? She means that after MONTHS AND MONTHS of being harassed, goaded, taunted, and stalked by Joshua Nightshade, after having him deface my RL picture by taking the W-hat busts made form my RL head, and putting them to grossly tongue-kiss each other, and then posting and giggling and pointing at that disgusting shit on Second Citizen, after sending around a picture of my frigging *door* for God’s sake to “let me know he knows where I live,” after bragging day after day that he has “spotted me two blocks away” and “today she has an umbrella,” I wrote idiomatically on my blog: “If that creep comes near me in RL, I would cheerfully strangle him.”
You would, too. And so would Aimee. In fact Aimee is the first to try to convert my legitimate criticism of her highly political positions in SL into “stalking”. Falsely. As I have never initiated any contact with her in SL and RL. She carps that once I IM’d to check a fact. Oh? Good. My record stands. I’m not a stalker. I don’t make death threats. I’m not a problem drinker. I fight back against people who bully, ridicule, harass and obsess about me on forums.
If you all have any doubt about this obsession, check into forums.secondcitizen.com and read and marvel at this insanity.
If people who are goaded for months and months with the worst kind of heinous shit say “I’d cheerfully strangle that bastard” they are making a legitimate and legal and reasonable expression. Indeed, my blog stands, unchanged. Typepad doesn’t think “I’d cheerfully strangle that bastard” is a death threat; instead, when they see what that bastard writes on my blog, they say “Call the police.”
No one *in real life* considers a statement like that a “death threat” because they aren’t hysterical fanboyz on a game site.
The state they have whipped themselves up into you can amply see in lurid living colour on Second Citizen. It’s a place that IMPOSES a humiliating avatar on your if you refuse to make one. It’s a place that enables people to publish your complete RL address which has led to endless hate mail, death threats, calls for interviews which are harassment, blah blah blah. It’s sick. It’s a place which enables people to send you a private message and a picture of somebody’s RL scrotum for God’s sake.
It’s a place that enables harassment of people in RL, and Aimee and Flipper and other FIC endorse it, celebrate it, justify it in every way. It’s sick.
In response to shit like this, if you say something idiomatic and LEGAL on your own web site like “I’d cheerfully strangle that little bastard if he comes near me in real life,” Aimee calls this hysterically “a death threat” and cunningly and malevolently uses this in a horrendously manipulative fashion to say you are “unstable”. HER OWN stability is alarmingly in question that she has time to play these games and defend a little vermin like Nightshade. Aimee also disgracefully plays down *the phone calls to my RL” home as “brought on by my own actions” and “an exaggeration like calling things genoide,”
So here I’m dealing with a very influential person with power to blog on AOL and not only get me banned (hiding behind her minions and claiming she didn’t ban me) but defame me and minimize serious criminal action against me. That’s seriously fucked. Aimee Weber is somebody hired by many leading companies like MOU, yet she feels absolute impunity in being able to behave in this utterly atrocious fashion to another person in Second Life — accusing them of being “unstable” of “suffering from gender dysphoria” (!), of “stalking” or of “lying” or “making death threats” when she knows full well this is all fake. She does this for one simple reason: long ago, I questioned her idea about sliders. Long ago, I called her name “like a prom queen”. I challenged her rule of the forums. I criticised her hold over the Lindens’ web page. That was the right thing to do. Her response is all disproportionate. She needs to grow up and get a thicker skin, it’s a big world out there beyond the SL pond.
Here is a community who is completely libeling me and harassing me and making false characterizations about me with no recourse. I don’t take that lying down. I keep fighting back and exposing it. For Aimee to *persist* in these deep, deep lies, and deep, deep falsehoods about me is sick. There’s only one thing to do when someone is like that: whack them back hard with the same insult culture they’ve inflicted on you. Other people are welcome to fight this phenomenon as they like — by hiding, silencing themselves, overlooking it, ignoring it or — as they usually do with this bunch of fucktards — flattering them and hope they don’t turn on YOU.
Sick.
The SLCC is a travesty. I hope the press really gives it the utmost of scrutiny.
From the very beginning, when it started as an informal amalgam of the old Future Salon that Jerry Paffendorf ran, and Hiro Pendragon (those two met in RL and decided to get it going, and got it going on their own connections with State of Play and Beth Noveck), Flipper and Jennyfur schnorred there way into it. I remember at the first organizing meeting, it was held in Indigno, and Flipper even tried to ban me from Indigo and it was only by complaining to Lindens that some of it was open up.
From the very beginning, back in 2005, I demanded that they hold inworld sessions and open up the process. Instead, they collapsed it on themselves, making their own wiki-tiki-woos and filling up panels with pets. The results were decidedly mixed. Hiro behaved badly and was properly removed. The Peregrins underperformed and were sullen and defensive about taking criticism — notice how they are now eased out. The new organizers are letting themselves be whipsawed by those with power and money — Lindens and Stroker Serpentine.
The idea that you can’t criticize this mess unless you are willing to “make your own” is the usual content fascism of Second Life. No, make a better one. Get more accountable people on the board. To her credit, Nethermind Bliss sounds like she at least has a plan and a concept for how to make it work better inworld this year; last year was a travesty.
Hiro Pendragon
Apr 2nd, 2007
>> Bluesapphire: “Hiro was asked to stepdown from the SLCC organizers panel, he was told in no uncertain terms that his services would be no longer required. His views and strong opinons ended up making a lot of waves, I suggest you look into your facts. Just like Prok, he upset a lot of the organizers in the first/second year of SLCC.”
For the record, I don’t think there’s one founding father of SLCC. While Jerry and I first proposed the SLCC, Flip and Jenn jumped on board as soon as we told them, and Valadeza jumped on board maybe a week or three later. (Not sure when Jenn first approached her.) All of them put in a ton of work. In addition, dozens of volunteers helped get SLCC going year one, including sponsors and in-world and real-world volunteers. (And I’m not even mentioning SLCC 06 – there’s even more people to praise for that.)
I very much appreciate your confidence in me and Boliver, Bluesapphire. However, that’s besides the point. Drama happens in almost any organization, especially when no one’s getting paid. The trick is how its dealt with, and this is a case where it’s been dealt with, so far, quietly. I stepped down because my SL business was taking off, and requiring a lot of time – too much to deal with the politics. If you’ve heard that I was asked, “in no uncertain terms” to step down, then you didn’t hear that from me, or anyone I’ve told.
I’m not going to discuss every nuance of drama (sorry Uri! hahaha), and while a lengthy explanation would clear up some ambiguities and show that things in a much better light, this is just not an appropriate time or place.
I have my views on what SLCC should be, I disagree with Jenn, yeah, that’s pretty clear. However, I’ve also complimented the SLCC team year after year because, bottom line – a community of people show up and have a great time. I happen to think that SLCC should be as open as possible, and I believe the SLCC organizers as a whole share this goal. However, there’s debate about where the line is drawn between security and openness.
In any event, I’m satisfied that Flipper has stated that the banning of Prok is still being considered, and I thanked him on SecondCitizen for this. At the same time, I’m disappointed that Prok must continue to provoke people, rather than staying quiet and letting the issue *not* be about her/him. Of course, banning her is only bound to rile her up more – for that matter, it would likely rile up anyone who found themselves banned.
Harlequin Salome
Apr 2nd, 2007
Prokfy is a lawsuit waiting to happen. He’s an , sick, angry individual who has decided that they greatest thing a person can reach for is to get attention. Prok’s attitude reminds me of a conversation I had with a griefer once. I asked why he did it and he responded “Do you hate me?” “Yes” “Then you’re thinking of me, so I’m important.”
Prok’s actions ring of that. He can rattle off a completely insane, paranoid rant, and therefore people at least notice him, and it makes me wonder what would occur at a real life situation. I frankly don’t doubt that Prok would physically walk up to and abuse those he doesn’t like, just to make himself known. Prok, yo are a troll of the first order, and I don’t blame them for just not wanting you there. You come across often as a dangerously unstable person, desperately seeking attention, and they both fear someone being assaulted or otherwise by you in a sober or drunken incident, or fear someone finally giving in to your sick cries for help by doing something that you will take offense at and consider bringing suit for.
You’re one of the types of people that lives to cause trouble. And I wouldn’t put it past you to try some legal shit against the people you hate so much, LL included. And so LL is deciding to just cut you out, much like banning a troll from a board, or banning a greifer from a parcel. Actions have consequences, and this is the consequence of being a shrill diseased harpy, shrieking with hate and venom at basically everything that surrounds you.
I say you need to hold your own convention, in your basement *nods* Or at least far away from Chicago, so those of us that do go won’t have to deal with you.
Hiro Pendragon
Apr 2nd, 2007
Since Prok updated while I was responding, a few factual corrections to Prok:
“I attended in 2005, and there was no discussion of any ban — this is made-up, after-the-fact stuff.”
Actually, we did consider banning you. It was a short-lived discussion.
“She means that after MONTHS AND MONTHS of being harassed, goaded, taunted, and stalked by Joshua Nightshade”
Aimee doesn’t control Joshua, as you imply. Joshua seems to have taken up a “Aimee vindicator” position. I’ve talked with Aimee a number of times and she has asserted that she’s content to not speak your name. If Aimee truly had control over Joshua, he would have stopped talking about you too.
At the same time, you continually refer to Aimee as some kind of ringleader, and you group any supposed counter-attacks on Joshua with attacks on Aimee. That’s probably why Aimee has stated that she feels you stalk her. *shrugs* Aimee’s not a ringleader, trust me on this – and in the case of SLCC, specifically, she’s not even an organizer!
“Aimee Weber is somebody hired by many leading companies like MOU”
Aimee’s been on her own for nearly a year now. Anyone paying attention to the developer community knows this. This illustrates how out of touch you are with the truth about Aimee.
“I’m dealing with a very influential person with power to blog on AOL”
Do a search on SL Insider, or any of Aimee’s blogs. I don’t see you mentioned. Your perception doesn’t match the fact of the situation.
“Here is a community who is completely libeling me and harassing me and making false characterizations about me with no recourse.”
This sounds very similar to peoples’ complaints about you.
“The SLCC is a travesty.”
LOL! You work at the UN. You should know better. Darfur is a travesty. Enron is a travesty. The state of freedom of speech in Russia is a travesty. Some minor bickering about whether or not to let one person come to a convention is hardly a travesty. You diminish the word in your use of it.
“Flipper and Jennyfur schnorred there way into it.”
No, Jerry and I invited Flipper, because Flipper had organized get-togethers before. Flipper mentioned that Jenn had convention-running experience, and we invited her.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
>Prokofy isn’t interested in being peaceful with anyone; the time for other people to kiss her ass to placate her is over. Prokofy isn’t passionate, she’s a lying psychopath who’s a destructive, threatening person. She’s demonstrated her inability to handle being rational in public when she’s sober, much less when she’s had alcohol.
This is the sort of smear that we’re used to from the lying little psychopath Joshua Nightshade, who has time and again tried to get fame and attention for himself by libeling and harassing and stalking prominent people. It’s a classic syndrome.
It’s sick. I chose simply not to interact with him when he forced himself on me by stalking me at a Metaverse Meet-up that he came to specifically to stalk me at — he has never been to the others because he has nothing of value to contribute.
Here’s a person who has:
o harassed me continually on forums and ridiculed me as a forums sport
o posted an “artwork” he made with a lurid, giant, ugly 20-storey high bust of me in Second Life, made by W-Hat to ridicule me, with a copy tongue-kissing it, to make some sort of “point”. Sick.
o sent around a picture of my door in RL, pretending he “got this from an anonymous person” and “wanted to make sure the Lindens knew about this” like he’s suddenly a fine upstanding citizen instead of a lying fake pathetic griefer
o regularly posts to SC that he has spotted me in RL; that he lives two blocks away; that I’m carrying an umbrella; that he’s going to talk to me, etc.
o takes a statement like “I’d cheerfully strangle this little bastard if he comes near me in RL” and converts it to a death threat
o boasts that I should give him my work fax so he can harass me at work with faxes showing his RL name and bona fide age
o claims I’m stalking him when I never IM him or write about him, I merely respond to attacks
o claims falsely that I stood in his SL store and urged other people to boycott him when I did no such thing
o claims that I am “IMing all his friends to boycott him” when in fact what I did was twice IM the organizer of an event against domestic violence that in accepting Nightshade’s endorsement (he did this to whitewash himself) she was dealing with a really freaky psychopath who was a stalker, a mysogenist, and a griefer and that she should not discredit her cause that way
o claims that I put up a statement that he is a “rapist” with his RL name and RL website and linked to it — false.
And on and on. Anyone observing this situation knows EXACTLY what’s going on with this. They ignore Joshua or they’ve had their own run-ins with him — he’s like a tar baby once you try to deal with him, you can’t get unstuck from his lies. He’s been run out of World of Warcraft guilds and all the rest for being a snivelling little manipulative and histrionic griefer and whiner.
>From fleeing from me when I attempted to put aside our differences and say hello to her (and then later going around telling anyone who would listen a hilarious mis-mash of bullshit about how I’d sent around a photograph of her door — never happened)
I have a notecard with a photograph of my door, and the message to Cocoanut. It’s amply documented, and it is something that Joshua himself can’t back out of because he is the author of the object and bragged about it and discussed it live with Cocoanut, as we all know. All the card creator, chatlog, etc. items are documented. He’s chosing now to engage in a baldface lie about it.
You don’t “put aside your differences” with people who are psychotic forums stalkers. You leave them alone. You want nothing to do with them. You walk away when you see them so as to avoid any kind of incident which they are sure to misportray or manipulate. That’s all there is to it.
It’s like this other baldface lie where he claims I called him a “rapist” on my blog and that he wrote to Typepad and “got them to take it down” and “change it”. But in fact I called him a psychopath, Typepad didn’t touch anything on my blog, and nothing happened and I never wrote any word “rapist”. He’s even got Cristiano hysterically imagining he has seen this, and he has doctored up a screenshot to go with it.
>to holding up the sign of the cross at Flipper and Aimee and hissing that Aimee’s a fat cow as she stumbled around, Prokofy is clearly psychotic and dangerous.
I held up crossed fingers at Aimee because I really truly do think she is evil. It’s the kind of cunning and malice I haven’t seen in a long time. She has sustained this shit on the forums and sustains SC and gives all of it luster and credibility. She made sure she was on the first SL Insider podcast about the SLCC. It’s about power and influence and Aimee actually thinks that by being manipulative, deceitful, deceptive, misleading, cunning, and malicious like this that she can keep power. It’s all based on insecurity.
I called Aimee “a fat cow” on the forums for the first time AFTER the RL meet-ups, when I saw that she was now picking up this outrageous claim that I have “made death threats” over the Nightshade stalking. Insanity. I fight back hard when people do shit like that.
>Any ban would be for the protection of other people from HER, not vice versa. Considering she’s threatened to kill at least three people who plan to attend, it’s a pretty simple concept to grasp
Wow, this is hilarious, now there are three people who I’ve “threatened to kill”. By saying that if they behave like schoolyard bullies, then they should meet me out back, and I can see which one of them I’m heavy enough to sit on, and which ones are heavier than me and will sit on me? Right. Ok.
Back to Second Life, a more real world…
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 2nd, 2007
I never, ever sent around photos of your door. But keep on lying. Find a single entry where I posted your door anywhere. Go on.
You threatened to kill me and Cris and Aimee and then declared that you were acting in self-defense because we threatened you. Bullshit. Find a quote where any of us ever said we would strangle you in real life.
You can’t. Because your psyche is propped on lies.
Go on. Prove me wrong.
urizenus
Apr 2nd, 2007
Can we all just get along????
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 2nd, 2007
Far more than just Cristiano saw the entry. Considering how mortified you were when your editors here retracted your libel against the ESC and how you blamed everyone else but you for writing it, I’m easily 95% sure that Typepad removed the comment when I reported you. That’s why you’re acting like it was never there, now, because you’re too embarrassed to realize your limitless vitriol finally crossed the line.
I’m fairly convinced that they deleted it; you’re too far gone to realize when you’ve gone too far and I’m sure you didn’t take it down yourself.
Artemis Fate
Apr 2nd, 2007
I agree with the ban, because as Jennyfur put it
“The SLCC is not trying to be the be all end all pretentious metaverse event for all the metaverse stick up the ass types high on the scent of their own self-righteousness. Its a family barbecue for those who want to kick back have a good time with their friends, grab a drink and chat about Second Life. However, we just don’t want the creepy uncle showing up who touches us inappropriately”
It’s a place for relaxed chat, and meeting up, Prokofy is completely incapable of relaxed chat. Prokofy is insane, this is something he has proven over and over (to everyone but himself) that he is completely incapable of dropping paranoid fantasies and tinfoil conspiracies centered around him, and it’s clear this will (and has) taken real life manifestations of verbal assaults and a general gloomy aura that would radiate from that area, knowing full well that if anyone were to near him, he would explode into a 5 hour diatribe about how everyone is out to get him and how the FIC is evil and yadda yadda yadda. Even taking out the fact that Prokofy is insane and violently angry at those he deems conspirators to his demise, Prokofy just doesn’t belong in that kind of a set up. There’s no point, it just ruins the concept of the whole thing in the first place.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 2nd, 2007
“Can we all just get along????”
Sure, when you stop enabling the ability of a lying sociopath to slander and defame companies and individuals in the manners well documented all over the internet.
The comment moderation, nice touch btw.
urizenus
Apr 2nd, 2007
Not quite what I meant by “getting along” Josh, but I guess its a start.
Artemis Fate
Apr 2nd, 2007
“You want to know what would have been impressive? CALL HIS TYPIST UP. Seriously, if you’re so worried about somebody, you call them and sit down with them for a coffee. You explain that you want to create a certain atmosphere, and politely ask them for their help in that. You find common ground. You find compromise. You treat each other with some basic decency and respect.”
Ah right, that worked well for Plastic duck didn’t it? Oh wait, sorry, I forgot, in prok-land, calling someone on the telephone constitutes harrasment and rape of children.
Jennyfur
Apr 2nd, 2007
All official SLCC information is on our blog: http://www.slcc2007.wordpress.com otherwise everything else is pretty much just discussion and more than likely arguing about stupid shit if it happens to occur on Second Citizen and/or blog commentary on Second Thoughts.
Othewise, when in doubt contact an organizer directly or post a comment on our blog and someone will confirm the information. This whole thing has been blown WAAAAAY out of propotion (not that I expect anything less)from the SL community.
Long story short, we talked about banning Prok in private, I accidentally blurted it our whilst arguing with Prok in SC or perhaps in her blog commentary. We hadn’t really had any further discussions on the subject even though on occasion people would poke and prod us for more information. Otherwise, we just moved on with organizing the event. It was only recently like in the past day or so that the issue resurfaced and we decided to reconsider our stance. Be that as it may, we are all human, we make mistakes, we say things we shouldn’t, we change our minds, we acknowledge and move on.
PS. Thanks for the buzz =)
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
No, Uri, you don’t “get along” with fucking CRIMINALS like this.
Joshua sent a picture of my fucking DOORWAY to Cocoanut WITH THE REQUEST TO SEND IT TO ME. That’s what he’s lying about. That he SEND IT TO HER TO SEND IT TO ME because I had him on mute. Cocoanut can confirm it and so could Lindens.
The idea is just sick that he can now lie about that, when it was a whole completely concocted manipulative caper that Cocoanut knows about, I know about, and the Lindens know about it (and they understood PERFECTLY what was going on when I contacted a key Linden directly about this).
For months, Joshua did stuff like post my defaced RL picture, claimed sightings of me that he’d post about like “oh she’s got an umbrella it’s raining and I went up to talk to her but she didn’t see me” blah blah (!) and I RIGHTLY and LEGALLY said that if he attempted to come near me in RL, I’d cheerfully strangle him. Anyone would do the same thing. In fact, they would have been far more hysterical or proactive about it than I’ve been.
He’s lying about Typepad removing anything from my blog; they didn’t. I didn’t post that he was a “rapist” — I don’t shy from calling anybody what they are, but the word I used was “psychopath” and that’s what stands. I didn’t link to his RL site — this is all made-up stuff.
Making a sarcastic quip about beating up the bullies on the playground by “sitting on them” is hardly “a death threat”. Seriously, by pretending to be “neutral” and remaining a cynical journalist, Uri, you are enabling the barbarians at the gates. Think carefully what you are doing.
>You threatened to kill me and Cris and Aimee and then declared that you were acting in self-defense because we threatened you. Bullshit. Find a quote where any of us ever said we would strangle you in real life.
This is the kind of cunning, manipulative, tendentious, and just plain psycho thing you get from Nightshade. I didn’t say anything of this at all. I never threatened to kill anybody; I never said I was acting in self defense. All I did was say that I’d “cheerfully strangle the little bastard Joshua Nightshade if he came near me in RL.” Um, given that that the pathetic little pale vermin DID thrust himself upon me and stalked me and DID come near me in RL and didn’t end up being strangled, um, I guess it was really a “death threat,” eh? And as for using a metaphor about fighting playground bullies, well, what can I tell you. I’m happy to have Fight Night in real life any time. I’m sure it’s not a fight I’d win given the size, weight, and hatred of the people arrayed against me.
What this is about, Uri, is about people being able to form collective Internet posses, and not even be anonymous Internet fuckwads anymore, but even be real-life present fuckwads stalking you, and attempting to gain conformity to their lies and distorted view and ideology from others. What on earth does Joshua Nightshade have to do at something like the Metaverse Meetup except get drunk, suck up to Aimee and talk trash about me to a RL journalist? Nothing. It’s really something to be opposed, vigorously.
When the SLCC organizers start mouthing Soviet-style platitudes about how they had to do ‘what’s best for the community,” when the Lindens say they “allow the community to make decisions” and then the “community” (which is the orgkomitet) actually turns around and says “well, we’re not obligated to do everything the community wants” or “we’re entitled to make executive decisions about what we feel our members can tolerate in the way of criticism” — you just have the worst sort of Bolshevism. I hope you can see this.
It’s not about “getting along”. It’s about standing up to bullies.
Try to reminder how this got started. We’re all here now, simply because Betsy Book feted Aimee Weber in a paper; Pathfinder Linden feted her on the forums; and I called it as feting, I called it as not a successful brand, if the way you sell yourself and your products to the media and to the customers is by having a chummy academic flog you after the Lindens have promoted you and then have the Lindens flog you some more. Neither the Lindens nor Aimee Weber nor her coterie could bear this; they couldn’t handle the criticism. They permabanned me after that post, and the post about the five companies getting monopolies and preferences from the Lindens (all of which went on to become major metaversal developers or top businesses in SL).
That’s all it’s about. Like…it wasn’t obvious back then? Like it didn’t all come true, what I said? Like…this was rocket science?
http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=49912&highlight=Betsy+Book
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
>Far more than just Cristiano saw the entry.
I never wrote anything calling Joshua “a rapist” nor linking to his RL site. It’s just not something I would do. I call people names for what they actually do, and the word I used was “psychopath” and that’s the word that’s there. Joshua is trying to get street cred as being called a rapist by me because I did call W-hat griefers who sexually harassed my tenants “rapists” and he wanted to get called that, too, I guess, who the hell knows. Griefers want their street cred.
Typepad never removed anything from my site. If they had taken action, they’d notify me. They didn’t. All the efforts Joshua made to write them about me, and my efforts to explain what he was doing on my blog led them to respond with one thing: “contact your local police”.
>Considering how mortified you were when your editors here retracted your libel against the ESC and how you blamed everyone else but you for writing it,
I wasn’t mortified about shit. I didn’t libel the ESC. I reported in good faith what was told to me. I corrected it. I still feel there are many unanswered questions about the story. That story has nothing to do with the psycopathic liar Joshua Nightshade anyway.
>I’m easily 95% sure that Typepad removed the comment when I reported you. That’s why you’re acting like it was never there, now, because you’re too embarrassed to realize your limitless vitriol finally crossed the line.
Seriously, this is majorly fucked. If I want to call somebody a rapist, hey, I call them a rapist. Not a problem. I did that with some W-hat assholes. I wrote about it on my blog; Typepad didn’t remove anything. It’s a curious thing, to be accused of insulting people all the time, and then accused of not insulting them *enough*. This is Joshua’s concoction, the idea that I’d call him something somehow sexually related AND link to his real-life website. It was just some sick notion of his. It’s not something I did.
>I’m fairly convinced that they deleted it; you’re too far gone to realize when you’ve gone too far and I’m sure you didn’t take it down yourself.
Typepad could not delete content from my site without sending me a warning, an action, an automatic thingie, something. That just doesn’t happen. Typepad just doesn’t function that way. No blog or company does. IF they remove content, they tell you. I’ve never had Typepad tell me a thing except how to put up a widget.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
>Sure, when you stop enabling the ability of a lying sociopath to slander and defame companies and individuals in the manners well documented all over the internet.
I haven’t slandered and defamed companies and individuals. Times v. Sullivan. I write robust commentary that is necessary in a democracy.
Artemis is a long-time griefer of me, IRC channeller, official forums annoyer, etc. And she’s carried that over here into the forums.
I love this concept lol. Now I can’t be allowed to come to SLCC because I’d be *rightly* spouting about how everyone is out to get me, and I’d be likely to fulminate for five yours.
One of the really blessed moments of that Metaverse Meet-up the other night was when I had a circle of COMPLETE STRANGERS in my living room — and I seriously had never met them, didn’t know their avatars, didn’t know them in SL, and some of them were in other games/worlds/businesses. And we talked about the problem of griefing. And briefly, not in any five-hour diatribe, I described what Joshua Nightshade and W-hat griefers like Plastic Duck and others have done to me in SL and RL. And the looks on their faces were really something to see. They looked truly alarmed. It’s the sort of thing that people who grief need to see — except that they are so psychotic and so far gone that seeing shock and horror from people is actually something they get a kick out of.
It’s gratifying to know that the average Internet stranger who comes to an Internet meet-up is still capable of being repulsed by what these people do. It’s wrong.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
You want to know what would have been impressive? CALL HIS TYPIST UP. Seriously, if you’re so worried about somebody, you call them and sit down with them for a coffee. You explain that you want to create a certain atmosphere, and politely ask them for their help in that. You find common ground. You find compromise. You treat each other with some basic decency and respect.”
Ah right, that worked well for Plastic duck didn’t it? Oh wait, sorry, I forgot, in prok-land, calling someone on the telephone constitutes harrasment and rape of children.
Artemis, FUCK YOU. Plastic Duck called my home, as he did the homes of other people with my RL name (many people have this name) and tried to match up an avatar. He got my young school-age daughter on the line. She innocently linked up my avatar and real-life name. THat’s intrusion. That’s in fact what I consider an ASSAULT. Why an assault? Because it follows more than a year of a deluge of inworld griefing and represents a sick effort to carry that griefing into real life by talking to a *child* for God’s sake.
I don’t call that “raping a child”. But I call it wrong, and I call it an assault. It’s not a legal, criminally defined assault and battery (this is something Aimee is trying to mince up and compare to the misuse of the word ‘genocide’) but it’s wrong.
Uri, would you be happy to have Plastic Duck call up YOUR daughter in RL and match YOUR HOME PHONE NUMBER to your avatar? wouldn’t you find that A TAD CREEPY?
So why do I have to take this? Why is it preposterously being put out that I’m calling this “child rape” when what I’m calling it is a legally-defined criminal act, to try to reach a child and use their innocence to link somebody’s RL information.
And don’t forget what happened next. Plastic Duck took my RL phone number, now confirmed, and used that and my RL name and RL email to spoof an account in Second Life. Within 10 minutes, that account spoofed on my information was hurling penises at Anshe Chung on CNET.
Could we please connect up the dots here??? This is sick shit. It’s not just some sport. It’s not just griefing. It’s crime, crime that’s being minimized and justified by the FIC, as they’re only too happy to have Plastic Duck be their bag man to harass me.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 2nd, 2007
>”You want to know what would have been impressive? CALL HIS TYPIST UP. Seriously, if you’re so worried about somebody, you call them and sit down with them for a coffee. You explain that you want to create a certain atmosphere, and politely ask them for their help in that. You find common ground. You find compromise. You treat each other with some basic decency and respect.”
Um, this is all pretty retarded. I’m not going to be sitting down and having any coffee clutches with any orgkomitet. I don’t need to make any deal with this bunch of ninnies, truly. I don’t seek entry to the SLCC. I boycotted it last year, and was waiting to see: did the kids grow up yet?
>Ah right, that worked well for Plastic duck didn’t it? Oh wait, sorry, I forgot, in prok-land, calling someone on the telephone constitutes harrasment and rape of children.
What’s especially sick about this is that Artemis can conceive of someone stalking and prank-calling you and harassing you as “a phone call that’s about trying to see if you can find common ground and get along.”
Um, Artemis, you don’t call up somebody’s RL home, with a number you’ve somehow matched up and purloined from somewhere — because somehow someone was able to post my RL address in full on Second Citizen — if you are “just trying to get along”.
If you are suddenly remorseful over your past griefing, you stop. You don’t keep contacting the person, especially at home.
What would there be to um…discuss with Plastic Duck? And how on earth can you be SO SICK as to conceive that a stalking phone call like that is somehow about a peace gesture? That’s sick. And why manipulate and sickly exaggerate the bad thing that *did* happen, that he got my own child on the phone for Christ’s sake? Can’t you understand how SICK that is??? How DARE you call that something so cynically as me exaggerating it and calling it “child rape” when I did no such thing? It’s bad enough what it is — intrusion and stalking. I wrote about it on my blog exactly as it happened and didn’t exaggerate it — it’s only SC and Aimee Weber’s SL Insider that has done this exaggerating.