updated: We didn’t Want You to Know This, But Agitators Will Be Banned
by Alphaville Herald on 01/04/07 at 10:37 pm
Op/Ed by Urizenus Sklar
Most people in the Second Life infosphere have heard that SL agitator and SL Herald contributor Prokofy Neva has been banned from the Second Life Community Convention in Chicago. The exchanges between Prok and the FIC have been pretty off the hook (on both sides), so we can understand why some people don’t want her there, but the step from not wanting to banning is a very unsettling step for what advertises itself as a “community convention.” The justification being offered does nothing to make the decision less troubling. In a post to Second Citizen, our friend FlipperPA Peregrine first says that the organizers didn’t intend to make Prok’s banning public, and then offers up a justification that establishes a dangerous precedent that really needs to be rethought.
The SLCC attorney, who’s legal opinion I respect much more than anyone (he’s with Buchanan Ingersoll), said it would be wise to avoid any situation in which such an agitator, who loves to push peoples’ buttons, is allowed in a room with those she agitates, especially since conventions such as these include alcohol.[emphasis mine]
The idea that the banning would be secret is troubling enough, but the notion that it is unwise to have an agitator in a space where the agitated are present is in effect a prescription for insulating people from anyone who provokes them. The subtext seems to be that the real concern is that with alchohol being served there is some danger this agitator could be harmed by the other participants. That isn’t grounds for banning the agitator, it is grounds for either not serving alchohol or hiring adequate security to keep thin skinned drunks from harming Prokofy.
Beyond the precedent, it seems absurd to me that the Second Life Community Convention cannot tolerate the presence of a 50 year old woman who works for the United Nations and just last weekend was a speaker at Columbia University.
I call on Flip and the other organizers to think carefully about the precedent being established, and also about the broader philosophical implications of the decision. As it stands, the decision and justification appears positively Orwellian.
update: A statement from SLCC’s Randy Moss says that no one will be banned: http://slcc2007.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/registration-will-be-open-to-all/
(Flip’s statement is below the fold.)
As I’ve pointed out several times before:(1) It wasn’t our intention to make this public. Chances are, she would have boycotted again, and if she had registered, we would have tried to handle it quietly, politely declining her registration.
(2) Last year, our biggest day of registration was the day after she announced her boycott, with many registrants remarking that they would now attend since Prokofy would not be present. She really does intimidate a lot of people; not everyone can easily shrug her off.
(3) The SLCC attorney, who’s legal opinion I respect much more than anyone (he’s with Buchanan Ingersoll), said it would be wise to avoid any situation in which such an agitator, who loves to push peoples’ buttons, is allowed in a room with those she agitates, especially since conventions such as these include alcohol.
(4) Verbally assaulting Kendra at SLCC1, while Kendra was minding her own business eating lunch, is what I would consider absolutely impolite and unacceptable behavior. While the cross against Aimee and I was really funny – I kept laughing – verbally assaulting people in RL like she does in virtual spaces is NOT acceptable.
Prok’s been trying to tone down and mainstream her image lately, which I applaud. One day, hopefully, her behavior will be actually socially acceptable (just look how few blog entries she’s made lately). That still doesn’t forgive the years she’s spent trying to harm people by being a lying curmudgeon.
Regards,
-Flip
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 7th, 2007
I haven’t defaced any of her pictures or stalked her in real life either. :p
Mudkips Acronym
Apr 7th, 2007
Ah, it’s nice to see the internet being taken as Serious Business again.
I like how you people let a game fuck with your real lives. Can’t you, like, take up knitting or something?
Mudkips Acronym
Apr 7th, 2007
Also, I have to confess something: I took a picture of Prokofy and used the brush tool in MSPaint to write “big poopy head” on it. Sorry to deface your likeness.
JD
Apr 7th, 2007
Ya Mudkip, and Aimee made you do it too!
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 7th, 2007
I’m in love with you both now.
Mark
Apr 7th, 2007
Thanks Artemis, for saving me from having to post a point by point.
There’s no attempts at “gotchas” here.
Prokofy’s illness driven hypocrisy doesn’t need a “gotcha” to expose it. Anyone with two brain cells can read, absorb and come to the conclusion that many already have. Prokofy is a hypocrite. It’s amazing to read his posts and to see how much of what he says about others fits his own behavior to a T. It’s scary, to be honest.
Such blatant double standards. Like claiming Cristiano “has problems” as an adult because he is originally from S. America, or that Joshua “has problems” because of his childhood, it’s all the same shit, internet psychological diagnoses, which makes him a major league hypocrite.
He uses words like “swaggering” and so forth, and by God it seems like he is externalizing inner turmoil, because “swaggering” fits HIM better than anyone else here.
Oh well.
Life goes on.
Prokofy can talk all the shit he wants, but he can’t make anyone do anything, which is the real sad part here, and what makes Artemis’ sideshow analogy so apt.
If Prokofy thinks swearing at people is accomplishing anything, I say let him have at it. All it does is make him look like an even bigger moron.
Cocoanut Koala
Apr 8th, 2007
SunShine Kululcan claims she is a “medical professional,” licenced to diagnose and treat medical/psychiatric conditions.
If so, she must be a really, really lousy medical professional, judging by her short and none-too-sweet post to me on SC:
“You need to go die in a fire. Have a nice day.”
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
showthread.php?p=196494#post196494
Personally, I think that kind of thing needs to STAY on SC, where I no longer participate, and not migrate here, which is what has been happening in this thread.
coco
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Then tell your friend to stop making up bullshit.
See you in a month when you’re back to participating.
Anonymous
Apr 8th, 2007
Yo coco good link! Hey did Josh actually say that sunshines comment was uncalled for in that thread? Cool man, credit where due! Prok ever do that? Hah shit no, never, no way, ever.
But man, this shit won’t stay on sc. Wherever prok go talkin shit about people, they gonna come and say “that aint the way it is!”
You wanna keep this on sc? Tell your girl prok to keep it on sc.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Personally I’d prefer it if Prokofy kept it in her head. But thanks for the nod, sir.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 8th, 2007
Thanks, Ordinal!
How’s college, Artemis? Lots of work this semester?
Joshua has defaced my picture by taking busts made from my RL picture and done obscene things with them, and also stalked me in RL by posting his “sitings” of me, passing around a picture of my door, and forcing himself on me at a large meeting in which anyone who didnt’ wish to encounter someone else could safely ignore them. He forced himself on me by first compelling me to shake his creepy little hand, then announcing that he was Joshua Nightshade. That’s just creepy creepy stalky stuff.
I don’t answer stalky creepy harassing questions about my personal life, sorry.
I’ve never known Uri to ridicule me by calling me a cat lady or a side-show, but of course, he could be doing that, but at least he doesn’t do it to my face.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 8th, 2007
>Such blatant double standards. Like claiming Cristiano “has problems” as an adult because he is originally from S. America,
I’ve never claimed Cristiano has problems. That’s silly. He behaves rationally enough, but very vindictively and arrogantly. The issue with Cristiano is that he has a very specific attitude toward land — he loathes Anshe and all land barons; he loathes the free market and the island deed sales; he loathes people taking more than one first land, etc. It’s a set of attitudes that he imposes on others with great zeal. So I suggested that this attitude may have been shaped by his cultural experience in Latin America, where powerful forces often seize land and where land injustice is a big issue. That’s all. It’s about cultural differences and the attitudes they shape, it’s not “racist,” it’s not “claiming he has problems” and the thin-skinned way in which he has dealt with this is one of the hallmarks of SC — neuralgic, obsessive, vindictive.
>or that Joshua “has problems” because of his childhood, it’s all the same shit, internet psychological diagnoses, which makes him a major league hypocrite.
You don’t have to be a psychologist to tell that Joshua has serious problems. Anyone persisting in harassing someone on a forums thread like this, coming up with new lies in each post, anyone who reports “sitings” of someone, pretending they “live 2 blocks away,” passing around a picture of their RL door, and defacing their RL picture, etc. — that’s a person that the naked, untrained eye can report validly as having problems, yes indeedy.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
You’re such an idiot.
I did one thing with the bust that someone else made, apologized to you for it eons ago, promptly deleted the photos and the busts. Get off your fucking cross.
I never passed around pictures of the door. I gave the link, which I was given, to Coco. I implore you to call upon these magical Linden abilities you purport to have to verify a single person who has said photograph, and not a link, in their inventories. Despite the fact that that’s largely impossible, it’s also not true. I never downloaded the picture, never uploaded the picture, I just gave Coco (one person ain’t passing around) the linl. Get off your fucking cross.
Yes, I did say that I saw you when I did. You’re a celebrity Prokofy! I’ve also stated when I saw Sarah Jessica Parker and that guy from Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. Was I stalking them too? Eh. Get off your fucking cross.
And as for this new bit, I was invited to the Meetup. You weren’t. You just showed up. I avoided you and your stench the entire night, even when you came and sat down next to me and Jenn and the rest of us at our table. Besides the fact that you knew who I was anyway, I did say my name before offering my hand, and your laughable cries of disgust as you waddled away were just -embarrassing.- You’re an idiot. Get off your fucking cross.
You are a side show. And a wanna-be Ann Coulter if she worked at Wal-Mart. You’re pathetic.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 8th, 2007
It’s wrong to deface people’s RL picture made into busts in Second Life — full stop. Trying to “apologize” for it after getting maximum harm from this kind of sick act in a cheap, insincere and facile way doesn’t cut it. It’s a creepy, sick, mysogenist thing to do, and it has been followed by constant stalking, reporting on “sitings,” circulation of a picture of my door, and constant attacks on forums. It’s an obsessiveness, and it’s just downright wierd. Everybody can see it.
What’s wrong with this community, which is what’s wrong with those in the community of Kathy Sierra, is that the grown-ups in the group, the rational, the intelligent, the insincere — they can’t condemn it. They are embarassed by it. But they don’t condemn it. You only get a few brave people — like Ordinal, who has done the right thing, God bless her.
What is the name of the Linden? We have yet to hear it.
I didn’t “show up” at a meet-up. I was invited because I went to the last one, and in fact, it’s an open group, on the Internet, that you can go and sign up for. It’s not true that someone is “invited” in some special way, especially a non-entity like Joshua Nightshade who isn’t a presenter, inventor, speaker, or much of anything but a nuisance. Everybody gets automatic email notifications after they sign up on the Meet-Up page. To characterize me as “showing up” at something that is an open meeting that was publicized on the Internet meet-up page, on Twitter, and God knows where else, is just pathetic.
What matters isn’t whether it’s a “photograph” or “a link to the photograph”. Same difference. You press on it, you get the photograph. It doesn’t have to be some separate “photograph” to be a RL disclosure and a TOS offense. The Lindens know that, and Joshua knows that. He is guilty of RL disclosure. His fake story about “doing good” and “contacting a Linden” because OMG someone is stalking Prokofy *gasp* is full of holes and we can all see through it.
I did not “come and sit down” with any group at the table. I came over at one point to make sure that the reporter had hooked up with people like Simone from Second Life. There isn’t any “sitting down” with people like this. Ugh.
Uh, passing around is passing around. The IM with the link to my picture went not just to Cocoanut, but to a Linden. Oh, oops…is that an admission in fact that there *was* no Linden to whom it was sent? Oh, ok.
What an outrageous liar. In fact, someone said, “There’s someone who wants to meet you.” In good faith I stood by expectantly. So this was a set-up. Joshua *definitely, definitely* FIRST forced his hand on me and I shook it as you do with anyone who holds out their hand, not to be rude. THEN he said it was “Joshua Nightshade”. Everybody standing around saw that, heard it, and knows Joshua is lying.
What a vicious little retard. There are scores of witnesses to these silly stories, and can see what patent lies theses are.
I never knew who Joshua was before he imposed himself on me in this sick way. I didn’t care. I don’t stalk people. I’m not obsessed. I hope Joshua, who is a very disturbed spirit, can find peace in RL or SL pursuing some more positive aim than harassing me. It’s the only way he’s found to be accepted into a circle that itself has rejected him.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 8th, 2007
*Misogynist
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
“What an outrageous liar. In fact, someone said, “There’s someone who wants to meet you.” In good faith I stood by expectantly. So this was a set-up. Joshua *definitely, definitely* FIRST forced his hand on me and I shook it as you do with anyone who holds out their hand, not to be rude. THEN he said it was “Joshua Nightshade”. Everybody standing around saw that, heard it, and knows Joshua is lying.”
Bull fucking shit. We were standing outside and I was hailing a cab with Flipper and Jenn and saw you next to me. I didn’t ask anyone to talk to you, I didn’t ask anyone to introduce us. I took the opportunity to be polite to you, and you ran away screaming.
You’re a liar, pathologically so, to the point where you can’t even be honest about minute, insignificant details. You’re diseased about this and everything else in your life.
What a sorry, sorry person.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
At least in all this, Josh is consistent.
He’s as much of a fuckwit over here as he is in SC.
Given the fact that you seem to hate Prok so much, you sure are giving him a lot of attention. You don’t like someone, and think they’re after attention? The best way is to just ignore them. Geez, that’s elementary school stuff, and you really are getting a tad boring and predictable.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Oh yay, the bigoted homophobic racist came to join the fun.
Prokofy Neva
Apr 8th, 2007
No, the facts are that someone said “there’s someone who wants to meet you”. Everyone was witness to this. They all stood around there and they all saw it. Someone said that, and I remember thinking, that’s odd, why does someone “need an introduction” or need to have someone say “someone wants to meet you” at an informal thing like this, they just simply introduce themselves. And this creepy little pathetic loser *first* forces his clammy hand on me, forcing me to shake his hand before hearing his name, *then* says his name to get the maximum shock reaction. Childish, immature, vindictive stalking, of the kind that people who have somehow been injured in life practice because it’s been done to them, I guess. I’m not an expert. I do know that it’s accurate to report it as creepy, pathetic stalking.
I don’t go up to strange people and introduce myself. I especially don’t hound those who I’ve argued with on forums and seek them out. I particularly make a point to avoid people who have routinely attacked me, stalked me, or obsessed about me. That’s why I had no wish whatsoever to be “sociable” to the Peregrines, who are also sickly obsessive about me as well, unable to concentrate on organizing SLCC well, and lashing out at others due to their inadequacies.
Anyone who *first* forces their clammy little fish hand on you, THEN gives their name is a pathetic, loser and stalker. And I don’t scream or run or “do Seabiscuits” around such people. I just turn on my heel and walk away. There’s always one thing you can do with such people: not legitimize them and deprive them of the attention they seek.
Does that work? No. Because no matter what you do, a leech like Joshua Nightshade looking for attention by leeching on another person who is a public figure will stop at nothing.
And I didn’t recognize that person, and figured it was just some random SL person. Joshua stuck out his hand and got me to shake it *first* as stalkers did, and then took great childish and vindictive glee in the fact that he got me to shake the clammy hand of a stalker. Ugh.
I don’t run away screaming from things like that. I do walk away, however, out of consideration to the organizers. No need to make a scene. But I don’t wish to be stalked, and I don’t stalk other people.
Joshua imagines that if he keeps lying about little or big details, and does it often enough, he can gaslight reality. But I’ll be right here to rebut each and every sorry, pathetic lie.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
If someone told you “someone wants to meet you,” they did so without any communication from me. I don’t remember hearing that in the least. I remember seeing you next to me and resigning myself to be polite instead of pretending you didn’t exist. I said hello to you because I was told by several people that you are often rational and sane in person even when you’re a raging cunt online, and that I should give you the benefit of the doubt and be cordial to you even though you certainly didn’t deserve it. So I said sure, I’m a forgiving person, I will be the bigger guy and say hello to Prokofy. You knew who I was already, which was why I prefaced saying anything at all to you with “Am I allowed to talk to you?” I didn’t ask anyone to introduce me, I didn’t hear anyone say such a thing, if you did it was probably the voices that tell you your cats are communist displacers.
And yes, you certainly did run away, hissing much like you hissed at Aimee, and you screamed “piece of shit,” and “don’t look at me” which everyone saw because they asked what had happened while I stood with my hand out completely bewildered. And that’s how I realized that Prokofy isn’t roleplaying on Second Life, she’s actually out of her freaking mind and has no hope of coming back to sane-land.
You’re pathetic.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
“Oh yay, the bigoted homophobic racist came to join the fun.”
You were already here long before I arrived.
Aren’t you straightophobic anyway?
aj
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
“Oh yay, the bigoted homophobic racist came to join the fun.”
You were already here long before I arrived.
Aren’t you straightophobic anyway?
Lewis
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
Crap… why isn’t there an edit button here?
JD
Apr 8th, 2007
Sounds to me like everbody peaceful at these events except prok. Nobody else going around hissing at each other.
But Lewis got it all figured out.”you should ignore prok” but he never tells prok to ignore anybody. He’s got provks back.
JD
Apr 8th, 2007
Sounds to me like everbody peaceful at these events except prok. Nobody else going around hissing at each other.
But Lewis got it all figured out.”you should ignore prok” but he never tells prok to ignore anybody. He’s got proks back.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
“You were already here long before I arrived.
Aren’t you straightophobic anyway?”
That’s so retarded it’s not even worth a response. I’m inclusive, whereas you’re a brainwashed idiot who’s expressed a dislike of everyone who isn’t white and Christian.
And I’m only Lewisophobic.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
Whilst me and Prok don’t always agree on issues, Prok is perfectly capable of fighting his own arguments without any of us providing “backup”.
I am capable of separating the issue from the poster, and responding appropriately. However, Josh doesn’t seem to have actually figured out how to do that yet.
Does anyone actually have any *proof* that prok actually does harrass people at these events? The few pictures I’ve seen show Prok chatting to people just like everyone else was. There were no weapons in sight, no blood, and I can guess fairly well that as Prok is not in jail no actual assults took place. Methinks most of the problems here are actually imaginations of a deluded mind, that have no basis in reality.
I count amongst my friends some of the most unlikely people – a practising satanist and a transgendered vampire amongst them – because I took time and made an effort to look past the issue(s) that we may disagree on and find out more about the person as a whole.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Lewis, your person as a whole is disgusting and hate-filled. You fit right in with Prokofy’s crew. I’m not interested in being gracious to you.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
You accuse me of being closed minded and bigoted – yet you exhibit that behaviour yourself in your post.
You really are a paradox.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Wrong; not being tolerant of bigotry and racism doesn’t make someone a bigot. Get over the logical fallacy.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
You wouldn’t know a logical fallacy if it slapped you round the face with a wet kipper.
You seem to hate me – yet you don’t know me. Just like you do with Prok.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Eh I don’t hate either of you. You’re anonymous losers online with little better to do; I feel immense pity for you both. At least Prokofy’s crazy; what’s your excuse?
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
… and you aren’t an anonymous loser with little better to do???
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Nope.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
You sure? April 1st was last week you know.
Lewis
Mark
Apr 8th, 2007
__who isn’t a presenter, inventor, speaker, or much of anything but a nuisance.__
And this kids, is the very definition of a FIC.
Fucking amazing.
Gorean Furry
Apr 8th, 2007
>I’m the most sane person on this thread.
You’re ALL crazy.
I’m just insane.
reeneebob Birmingham
Apr 8th, 2007
I find it absolutely hilarious that the ‘picked upon transgendered’ person who is claiming how evil it is that she is picked on has NO PROBLEM calling people retarded.
Because lord knows that is appropriate and not at all offensive.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
I create a lot more than you do, Prokofy.
You hate anyone who has initiative to do anything at all; you abhor people who aren’t lazy. You hate me for thinking about a Second Life BBB, you hate Travis for Ban-link, you hate Flip and Jenn for SLCC; all you do is perch and bitch. Where’s Prokofy’s BBB? Ban-link? SLCC? Doesn’t exist. You lack the creativity, initiative, intelligence to make anything on your own, so you’re content to sit and ridicule anyone who surpasses your shortcomings.
Prokofy is an example of someone who wasted their lives and realized it too late to be anything but a bitter asshole; unable to contribute to society now, you’re content to vicariously disrupt those younger than you who are better people. It’s pathetic.
Why is it that Prokofy is always guaranteed a question in every town hall? Why is it that Prokofy manages to conduct her meetings beneath a bridge under a Linden owned/created dam? I don’t get what her true goals are, but Prokofy is far more FIC-cy than anyone she throws the term at. Pathetic.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
Quite what do you create, Joshua, apart from a few little avatars which I personally have never, ever seen anyone wearing?
What do you contribute to the betterment of SL, apart from attacking people who put you in your place?
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Oh clever little Lewis with his personal attacks.
My business is doing quite well actually, thanks for asking.
Tell me, is part of “putting people in their place” Prokofy’s rant about how both Aimee and Jenn are fat cows? Is that appropriate? Do you think Prokofy should go on and on at length making attacks about people’s appearances? What about me, I’m apparently a “pale piece of vermin.” Where’s that bit about separating the post from the poster?
Do you think it’s appropriate for Prokofy to call me a rapist on her blog and link to my personal website with my real life name? Do you think it’s appropriate for Prokofy to lie and claim I photographed her door when all I did was send her a link that someone else sent me when they were trying to pump me for information?
Do you think those actions are appropriate? Do you think those lies are correct? Prokofy’s never “put me in my place.” She’s made up a bunch of lies. For someone who claims to be so Christian you certainly don’t practice what you preach.
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
Josh. before you start more drama and accuse Prok of stalking… your real information is listed in your SL profile as your blog… Joshua Meadows, and you say you are 22, gay, from New York. That took all of about 6 seconds to find in SL, from information you freely provide to anyone who cares to look you up.
Hardly Sherlock Holmes stuff, is it?
Lewis
Mark
Apr 8th, 2007
Nice dodge Lewis.
Wait, no it wasn’t.
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
I never accused her of stalking. I accused her of calling me a rapist and linking to my real name. What’s your point?
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
To be honest, I’ve got better things to do than waste time trying to argue with Josh right now.
I have a life that needs leading, and it involves stepping away from the computer. You won’t see me online posting here at 5am in my timezone.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
I’ll take that as “You’re right Josh, Prokofy has acted appalling, but I’m not a big enough person to say so because I don’t like you.”
Happy Easter!
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
My point? That it’s a simple thing to find out your real name, age and sexual preference simply by clicking on your Second Life profile, and reading information that you publicly provide for anyone to read, by your own choosing.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
You’re missing all of it, which is what I’d expect from you.
I’m unconcerned that she has access to my name. I’m concerned that she manufactured a complete lie using criminal terminology and linked it to my actual identity. What part of this do you have trouble grasping?
And as for the fat cow comments, we’ve seen your photos Lewis. Don’t you think that kindof language is outrageously offensive?
Lewis Nerd
Apr 8th, 2007
Maybe I’m just not as sensitive as you are, and I’m quite used to people having a dig at the way I look simply because they run out of other things to back up their already weak statements.
Unfortunately, those of us who choose not to conform to society’s misguided view of what is a ‘normal’ weight (usually based on figures that were originally set up 100 years ago, by weighing dead people, for an insurance company) don’t get given the same protection as other special groups. Being gay, you’d know all about shouting “homophobia” when someone attacks you, when in all reality the reason people are attacking you is because you are a complete asshole.
Lewis
Joshua Nightshade
Apr 8th, 2007
Again, keep avoiding the issue.
You are a homophobe.