Woodbury University Island Destroyed
by Pixeleen Mistral on 01/07/07 at 2:28 pm
LL’s extreme smackdown – Woodbury University’s island deleted for TOS violations!
“a fascist company-controlled cookie-cutter world” – Tizzers Foxchase
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
not even a smoking crater was left…
Sometime Saturday, Woodbury University’s Second Life island dropped off the map of the virtual world. Second Life players have grown accustomed to intermittent outages from their metaverse service provider, sometimes spinning fanciful stories about tsunami and seismic activity as part of in-world roleplay. A virtual catastrophe does not appear to have been the cause of Woodbury’s demise, however.
It appears the complete disappearance of an entire virtual university was a disciplinary move on the part of Linden Lab – for Terms of Service (TOS) violations. Tizzers Foxchase, an administrator of the virtual land group for Woodbury University, provided the Herald with a copy of the virtual eviction notice:
Tizzers Foxchase: (Saved Sun Jul 1 12:19:36 2007) Linden Lab has continued to find inappropriate uses of the Second Life region “Woodbury University” under your control. On the 16th of April, you were informed of problems with the activities taking place in the region. Many members of the Woodbury University group (which controls the region) have been detected before and after that date causing severe problems in Second Life, in violation of the terms of service. These problems include incidents of grid attacks, racism and intolerance, persistent harassment of other residents, and crashing the Woodbury University region itself while testing their abusive scripts. Due to the ongoing problems, Linden Lab has no option but to immediately close the Woodbury University region. If you believe that this notice has been sent in error, or that the details of this incident have not been adequately examined, please address your concerns in an e-mail to abuse-manager@lindenlab.com Sincerely yours, Customer Support Linden Lab 945 Battery Street San Francisco, CA
Earlier this afternoon, I contacted Ms. Foxchase to learn if the Lindens have refunded Woodbury’s money, what the plans the displaced residents have, and how the Linden ban on Wodbury’s sim might affect educational uses of the metaverse.
Pixeleen Mistral: so in other words, Linden Lab pwned Woodbury
Tizzers Foxchase: Right, which was totally the wrong thing for them to do.
Pixeleen Mistral: how so?
Tizzers Foxchase: It’s as if LL took Friedman offline because we decided to hang out in the WTC basement or something, Intlibber can’t be held responsible for the actions of every person that comes to his sim, and especially things they do outside of it. That’s what they expected of me.
Pixeleen Mistral: what does this do for Woodbury University’s commitment to Second Life as an educational platform?
Tizzers Foxchase: Pixeleen, education and educational institutions are dangerous, people they are a place where people can think freely. They start asking questions and doubting authority. If WU is going to exist in SL, we’re not just going to be a static virtual mock-up of a RL campus, we’re going to be an active, living, breathing entity. Linden labs is like the catholic church, and we at WU are the modern Luthers.
Pixeleen Mistral: I wonder who the modern martin luther is in that analogy?
Tizzers Foxchase: We are. In fact WU is going to be writing a book about it. Second Life is not the peachy euphoria that it’s advertised to be, it’s a facist company-controlled cookie-cutter world where all the citizens are expected to comply and conform to the model of life that the Lindens have outlined.
Pixeleen Mistral: btw – who was paying for the Woodbury University sim? Did they get a refund?
Tizzers Foxchase: The University was, it was coming out of the communications advertising budget. I’m not sure if they did, but there’s hell to pay if they don’t. We have people working on the inside to get it back. And by on the inside, I mean people who have developed a personal friendship with Philip Rosedale.
Pixeleen Mistral: I ask because a lot of the institutional “purchases” are pre-paid for a year or 6 months
Tizzers Foxchase: I’m not sure of the financial details, all I know is, there was quite a large financial investment made.
Pixeleen Mistral: this all happened over the weekend – so I don’t imagine that the office staff know anything yet
Tizzers Foxchase: But do you see where I’m coming from? 99% of the RL schools in SL are nothing but boring models of a RL university. WU dared to be different.
Pixeleen Mistral: WU was certainly different
Tizzers Foxchase: The WU sim was purchased as a place to study virtual culture. /b/ and 4chan personify virtual culture. What better guinea pig or test subject, than to bring culture to us.
Pixeleen Mistral: I wonder if I should run this story now – or wait and talk to some RL people at Woodbury tomorrow?
Tizzers Foxchase: I can give you the direct phone number to MC Fizgig (Dr. Edward Clift). He is the chair of the school and is really the driving force behind the campus. I’m sure he’d be happy to answer any questions.
Pixeleen Mistral: so what is the next step – besides trying to get the sim back? if the Lindens won’t give it back, then what?
Tizzers Foxchase: We are going to begin writing a book. And waging a barrage of media, exposing the truth about the metaverse.
Pixeleen Mistral: so you would not recommend SL for education? or its only good for some sorts of things?
Tizzers Foxchase: It depends on your goal. If you essentially want a virtual museum, by all means SL is a great place. But active involvement comes with a bit of risk, the risk that Linden Labs may disagree with your viewpoints and the way you operate.
Pixeleen Mistral: any other messages for the Herald readers?
Tizzers Foxchase: Second Life has not seen the last of Woodbury. You may be able to kill the physical establishment but you can never kill a mindset. Ideas are bulletproof.
Pixeleen Mistral: so you will still be around
Tizzers Foxchase: Indeed we will.
Pixeleen Mistral: I suspected as much
As the displaced residents of Woodbury University consider their options, I was struck by the irony of a group that helped displace the Alliance Navy from half their Emit Time sim base being displaced by a higher power – the Linden game gods.
Certainly Woodbury University has attracted a rough crowd at times, but with the Bragg lawsuit hanging over the Linden Lab, the question of “ownership” of virtual land is brought into stark focus here. Will Woodbury write off its investment in virtual real estate? Will the Lindens refund all or part of their payments? Is it possible that the Lab may rehabilitate Woodbury and turn it into an example of compassion in action? This seems unlikely to those who remember the destruction of Satyr sim. While we wait for others from Woodbury to respond to Herald inquiries, perhaps the only clear lesson is that rolling with griefers may start with lulz but end in tears.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jul 2nd, 2007
Now that Woodbury is gone, Prok can go back to writing conspiracy theories about w-hat and the FIC, and why nobody will let her in the club.
Jim Schack
Jul 2nd, 2007
Prok… stop with your nonsensical conspiracy theories about IntLibber. Lemme guess, what he involved with Bush in 9/11 conspiracy too? LOL! Not only have you avoided the point i was making you tried to throw it back in my face with a non-sequitur.
You truly are a marvel and a typical stereotype of crazy cat ladies everywhere. Congratulations.
Jim Schack
Jul 2nd, 2007
Besides… i thought you didn’t respond to me because i was a troll? Hypocrite. Do as I say not as I do right?
mootykips
Jul 2nd, 2007
In after half of Woodbury joins PN.
Your resistance only makes us stronger!
Csven Concord
Jul 2nd, 2007
@ Jessica who said: “Prokofy, making an attack on me based on incorrect personal information just shows that you are not someone to be taken seriously anymore.”
“anymore”???
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 2nd, 2007
When I see prokofy’s responses to me, I realize one thing;
He’s losing the argument.
I could ignore the fact that to Prokofy my legal knowledge is suspect because I haven’t worked enough in the RW or that I haven’t had a chance to sit for the bar yet or that his legal knowledge is better than mine by virtue of his being able to read. If anyone can interpret the law Prok, then why am I held to a higher standard and you held to a lower one?
And I could also ignore the fact that he presents “landlords evict tenants frivolously” as evidence of “landlords are liable for crimes by tenants.” Or that he stated that a landlord is liable for the crimes of his tenants because he enables a crack den, which is a crime in itself.
But here’s what I’m not going to ignore, if landlords are responsible for the criminal acts of their tenants, then why hasn’t Linden Labs been sued for fraud? I’m sure most people that visit this board have been a victim of fraud or know of fraud being perpetrated by someone in SL. If the landlord is responsible, why does Linden Labs state that they are not to be seen as co-defendants and that they can do nothing to remedy the fraud?
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jul 2nd, 2007
Ok, since Prokofy is doing nothing but bleating out the same words over and over again, I shall put things in most simple terms possible:
Godwin’s law.
End.
Get the fuck out, Prok, you intolerant, dumbshit bitch. I’ve no further interesting in reading another twenty motherfucking pages of your recursive, infinite loop of horseshit.
Go back to your fucking hugbox and learn to shut the fuck up and stop bawling that anyone who disagrees with you is a griefer and should be banned. I’m fucking sick of it. I’ve tried to be fucking civil with you, but on the RARE occasions that you respond all I get is another repetition of the same attacks.
I think you’re the fucking griefer here – going out of your way to smear a whole swathe of people due to the actions of, literally, ten men.
TEN FUCKING MEN. That’s how many active PN’s there are. The Woodbury group is approaching TWO HUNDRED.
Nobody was ‘testing their abusive scripts’ in Woodbury – they were just CRASHING OUR FUCKING SIM. You know? Just ike they do EVERYWHERE FUCKING ELSE.
Screw your fucking head on, you snivelling cunt.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 2nd, 2007
>I invoke Godwin’s Law.
Prok, you lose.
Thread over
If you’re going to play “Godwin’s Law,” which is retarded, at least invoke it at the FIRST reference to Nazis which the previous poster, NOT ME made, DUH. YOU lose for being a retard!
Prokofy, making an attack on me based on incorrect personal information just shows that you are not someone to be taken seriously anymore. Instead of debating me on the points that I am making, you feel the need to “win” by using an attack that is not relevant to what is going on.
Jessica, what you fail to realize is that YOU make the attacks first, and all that happens is that I FIGHT BACK. When you write a completely bitchy, controlly, preposterous statement like “I want you to stop talking as if you are knowledgeable about the law,” that IS an attack, that IS a personal slam. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to play little games like that without being called.
And people like you who fight dirty like that, who speciously raise controlling little fucked-up statements like that need to get a smack back as hard as possible, and that means if they try to outgun you with “real life credentials” you have to slam them as hard as you possibly can on the same territory. You did not pass the bar yet, did you? Do you have a clerkship? Do you have an internship? Or are you playing Barbie Doll Lawyer here on SL? So seriously, STFU. If you *did* pass the bar or have an internship, bully for you! But you still have no life experience, and are still full of shit.
>Additionally, no one would be clerking when they are studying for the bar, as I am doing. Something I have stated in these forums before.
Hmm, I guess you don’t set as high a standard for yourself as some law students I know! But maybe they went to better law schools? Whatever. When you’re done passing the bar AND getting a job and really trying to practice law, instead of spout it in forums as a tool to help you be an asshole, I’ll be interested to see what you come up with.
>I am tired of being attacked personally by you everytime when I have defended you to others and given you a great deal of respect.
No, respect isn’t something you give when you tell somebody to *Shut up and stop talking as if you are knowledgeable of the law*. That’s just fucking retarded. Anybody is entitled to speak on the law, knowledgeable or not, for one thing! And in fact I *am* knowledgeable of the law through actual cases, through following it as any general consumer can follow law — and for all sorts of work-related stuff.
There’s nothing *special* about being a lawyer, Jesscia. For every smartass law school grad like yourself imaginging they will use the law as a tool to have power over others, there are *two more where they came from*. You are in for some rough and unpleasant surprises.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 2nd, 2007
Boy, did they ever play Intlibber here?! Wow.
WitnessX
Jul 2nd, 2007
>>In after half of Woodbury joins PN.
>>Your resistance only makes us stronger!
So says the leader of a dying termite ridden group.
I haerd you leik spies.
(oh and that ONE spy you uncovered doesn’t count considering 90% of the PN are spies and double agents)
Raz Welles
Jul 2nd, 2007
This thread is approaching the point of hilarity.
It just may need its own article.
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 2nd, 2007
Prok,
I’m making an argument. Your counter arguments are lacking in substance. I state that your counter arguments and your main arguments are lacking in substance. How is that fighting dirty?
How is calling me a harrassing nit fighting fairly?
Janelle Kyomoon
Jul 2nd, 2007
I have frequented Woodbury and I am a part of the group. I have NEVER went out of my way to read or post in these news articles about Woodbury. I am one of the Woodbury folks who DOES NOT grief. So Prokofy there goes your theory of everyone in Woodbury being a griefer. I mainly used Woodbury to learn how to turn prims and other things into clothing. I make costumes and clothing in RL so it was fun to do so in a “virtual” world and have a way to play with ideas that I could eventually make “real”. Tizzers was kind enough to give me a spot in Woodbury to play around with prims and such. I have not once seen Tizzers organize a grief, raid or whatever you want to call it. I would love to see Prokofy prove that Tizzers was behind all these griefing attacks.
Also how anyone can say that there wasn’t educational material or such linking to the real Woodbury is beyond me. There were whole buildings devoted to some clubs at Woodbury including pictures of students in the club. They may not be having classes but they are supporting the students that go to Woodbury.
Anyways the main reason I even posted in this was because I saw that Prokofy stated that she has two kids. I am a mother of one and rarely have time to even get on secondlife or read these articles. How the HELL do you find the time to post so quickly and so many times Prokofy if you have two children to take care of. Even if they are teens you still need to get off the computer long enough to feed them and make sure they are doing what they are supposed to. It honestly scares me that someone like you that can take the time to attack others with your “journalism” as you like to call it but you rarely get off the computer to take care of your children. Maybe this is why children today are having sex at the age of 11 and 12, because their mothers are too busy what is happening in a virtual world to take the time to make sure they get the love and care that they need.
And as far as your journalism goes. You are a journalist in a VIRTUAL world. Not REAL. Most people realize that there is life outside of their computer. The fact that you take your virtual journalism so seriously is very frightening.
joe
Jul 2nd, 2007
Woodbury was just a cover group for Greifers, I’m glad to hear LL terminated them.
mootykips
Jul 2nd, 2007
“recursive, infinite loop of horseshit.”
“recursive, infinite loop”
This is so ironic. so so so so so ironic. i love it.
JTG
Jul 2nd, 2007
Insert Witty comment useless internet politics and chest beating paragraph here
NobodyImportant
Jul 2nd, 2007
Dear “WitnessX”;
Thanks for spouting info every PN knows.
Here’s a protip for you, Mootykips is a spy. Nexis is a spy. That guy, Watermill? He’s a spy. Hazim’s a spy. Yaranaika’s a spy.
To take a line from Stephen King’s IT, “We’re all spies down here.”
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 2nd, 2007
I wish the comments would post a little bit faster on this website, just so I know what to respond to a bit better and I could stop reading the same things over and over again.
I just noticed that Prok is accusing me of throwing my credentials around. But as I seem to recall, Prokofy demanded to know what kind of credentials I had to be commenting on the law when his knowledge is so great and vast.
Your statements that landlords are responsible for all activity on their land is wrong. No matter how many times you put it in bold or try to malign me, it doesn’t make it true.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 2nd, 2007
>Nobody was ‘testing their abusive scripts’ in Woodbury – they were just CRASHING OUR FUCKING SIM. You know? Just ike they do EVERYWHERE FUCKING ELSE.
>Screw your fucking head on, you snivelling cunt
Gosh, I counted more than 10 just griefing Ravenglass with Tizzers Foxchase and her partner Runny Panacek. I was more like 15 I think. Runny Panacek had a gross giant penis he kept trying to insert into all the buildings and properties. After being banned, they all congregated on Linden Land like retards.
Perhaps I should do a separate article with pictures as some people have trouble grasping that Tizzers is orchestrating all this. I think Intlibber believes when Tizzers’ partner shows up with a huge obscene dick and her pals put Jello-owned and whatnot all over the sim, this is just an “educational seminar”.
Jessica, you haven’t disproved any of my points. My God, they’re all common sense points.
Re: “But here’s what I’m not going to ignore, if landlords are responsible for the criminal acts of their tenants, then why hasn’t Linden Labs been sued for fraud? I’m sure most people that visit this board have been a victim of fraud or know of fraud being perpetrated by someone in SL. If the landlord is responsible, why does Linden Labs state that they are not to be seen as co-defendants and that they can do nothing to remedy the fraud?”
I fail to see why Linden Lab’s decision to sue or not to sue somehow undoes any notion of landlords being responsible for tenants? In fact, that’s why Lindens cooperated with German authorities, and pushed back on the French case. And the French case was merely ill-prepared and heavily ideological and doomed to loss. Others will appear with more sophistication.
If LL were to state they can’t be co-defendants in fraud, they may run into legal problems either implying they can or can’t do something about fraud that in fact they may be able — or not be able — to do. I’d just love to hear a more expert legal opinion on this than yours, which is unseasoned and biased and tendentious.
LeninistX
Jul 2nd, 2007
—”oh and that ONE spy you uncovered doesn’t count considering 90% of the PN are spies and double agents”
It’s true, and prokofy was right too, I’m really a super extra secret double agent and I work for communist conspirators and PN was created by spies for spies to see how well we can spy on ourselves and other spies.
By the way, Im the real WitnessX, for realz
Economic Mip
Jul 2nd, 2007
Laughs so hard that someone about 60 posts ago thought I could banlink anyone, the thing won’t even show me who has banned my avatar. Besides it is irrelevant, as that system will definitely get “Gaming Open Market” treatment sometime soon.In fact, one time I was at Woodbury, they were discussing the various sims they were managers of, and removing their new found “friends” from lists.
No racism going on at Woodbury, huh, I wish I had saved the IM flurry which made me so mad I just had to report it after peacefully visiting once (26 profanities plus 23 racial slurs in eight lines of chat).
mootykips
Jul 2nd, 2007
Yeah basically PN is the virtual incarnation of Spy vs Spy
Or is it Spy Hunter?
If you’ll excuse me, I have to go lay down some oil slicks and rig up a spring-loaded pop machine for White Spy.
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 2nd, 2007
See Prok, your response is why I don’t trust your pronouncements.
I stated that if the Lindens were liable for their tenant’s actions, then why has no one sued *them*, the Lindens, for fraud. Under your theories, they would be liable for their tenant’s actions. So if a tenant was committing fraud, then the Lindens would also be liable for what the tenant was doing. You responded, why would the Lindens decision to sue or not sue be important to that proposition. The Lindens would be the people being sued for recovery, or the defendants, and not the plaintiffs, or people filing suit.
JonesX
Jul 2nd, 2007
Just STFU about these PN conspiracies, with all their linden backing nobody could actually stop them if they wanted.
Everybody just has conspiracies but anybody with half a brain can see the big picture.
You gotta question why SL from some shitty unknown company is so successful and why its not owned by EA or some other large corperation by now, You need to realise SL was devised as a social experiment for more elaborate and possibly mandatory virtual worlds to come… and realize that the concept of PN and other griefing groups were on the drawing board for as long as SL itself.
JonesX out
Janelle Kyomoon
Jul 2nd, 2007
So just because Tizzers is around these people she automatically becomes the person that orchestrates the attack.
Wow thats great logic and “facts” there Prokofy. Yeah.. she may be there by association but what proof do you offer that she PLANNED these attacks… besides her being there.
PicklesX
Jul 2nd, 2007
As far as the crashes at WU goes, occasionally a lone furry would come by trying to grief or crash the sim, thinking they’d get revenge on real griefers (who mostly don’t go to WU, though with 2 or 3 exceptions), though some of it could have been griefers who hate WU (and many do) dressing up as furries to cause drama. Though that obviously isn’t where all the crashes came from, at least it explains some.
Anyone that really knows WU, weather they hate or love it, knows that they don’t make crashing scripts and test it on themselves. LL probably made that claim assuming they would never have to back it up, and if this drama makes its way to court, itl be fun to watch LL backtrack on its claims.
protip: PicklesX is more than one person
Crunchfest McGee
Jul 2nd, 2007
I should point out something though, playing devil’s advocate.
People complain about property right and all.. The fact is. No one actually has them. Legally, as in the law of the land, virtual property holds no real value. They still own the servers your property is on. So your virtual property is on their real property. Their TOS does a backflip on itself and basically counteracts everything it initially says about your rights, it’s a nice little trick. “yeah you all all these rights, etc.. HOWEVER. WE OWN EVERYTHING, AND WE CAN BAN AND REMOVE PEOPLE AND TAKE AWAY VIRTUAL PROPERTY AND MONEY AT ANY TIME.” So really, it’s like paying up the mafia. Pay up a lot of money and we’ll consider keeping you around a bit longer. Though they claim to be a service provider, that part is nullified by the fact they state they can have direct affairs in peoples virtual estate and control over the content. (removing broadly offensive content anyone?)
The thing is though, it’s 90% legal. The worst they can expect is a false advertisement suit. But the fine text will tell you that you really dont own any land, and that the game is merely for entertainment and they can rip you off.
I call so much shit on them because this is a very hypocritical way to run business and most businesses would run their customers off with such shit. But they sort of hold a mindshare monopoly over everything, same with how skype has a mindshare with people, depsite there being better alternatives.
Only thing with SL, there are no good alternatives.. yet. give it a year or two, some things may develop.
Csven Concord
Jul 2nd, 2007
@Janelle
Apparently you missed Prok’s new theory of logic: “A statement I believe to be true *is* a fact until it is *disproven*.”
WitnessX
Jul 2nd, 2007
>>I have not once seen Tizzers organize a grief, raid or whatever you want to call it.
THIS is what alts are for. Do you think Tizzers is stupid enough to raid with her main account?
Here’s a great Tizzer’s snippit. This was during a time when Mootykips and Tizzers were having a “marital” spat, they’ve since made nice.
[9:45] Tizzers Foxchase: I mean don’t get me wrong, I love the PN and everything they stand for.
[9:45] Tizzers Foxchase: I just can’t crazy people like mooty.
[9:45] Bimble Bailey: A lot of the PN’s have defended you in the forums and gone against mooty’s words.
[9:46] Bimble Bailey: Nexis included
[9:46] Tizzers Foxchase: Bless them all
[9:46] Tizzers Foxchase: lmao
[9:47] Bimble Bailey: Guess they/we are back to Habbo next month.
[9:47] Tizzers Foxchase: Well, let it be known that the shrine will always be here for them. No matter how much they hate me.
This little bit is nice:
[9:50] Tizzers Foxchase: I <3 the premium account, not just because of the allowance and land ownership, but because the lindens are MUCH less likely to ban premium accounts.
[9:50] Tizzers Foxchase: If this was a normal account, I would have been banned long ago.
There’s more if I can dig through my logs. Being right next to pick up these things is so nice
Form your own opinions
Prokofy Neva
Jul 2nd, 2007
>So just because Tizzers is around these people she automatically becomes the person that orchestrates the attack.
>Wow thats great logic and “facts” there Prokofy. Yeah.. she may be there by association but what proof do you offer that she PLANNED these attacks… besides her being there
Repeated, systematic, in-your-face presence during all major griefing attacks. Your word-salading your way out of this one is the problem, not my claim of a fact which I know to be true because I’ve documented it with multiple eyewitness reports, chat logs, and pictures.
What’s wrong with you that you can’t accept reality?
She raids with her own account Tizzers so it’s extra
in-your-face.
>See Prok, your response is why I don’t trust your pronouncements.
Jessica, you’re not to be trusted AT ALL because from the get-go, you’ve declared that you use the law as an adjustable sliderule to pursue your agenda of legitimizing licentious sexual activities in SL.
I stated that if the Lindens were liable for their tenant’s actions, then why has no one sued *them*, the Lindens, for fraud.
They are liable. But have you ever tried to sue anyone for fraud? I’ve been a witness in a fraud case — do you have any idea how many YEARS and how many depositions and how EXPENSIVE this is? Oh, I guess you do, since as a lawyer, you’ll be raking in this moolah yourself soon.
I was defrauded by a tenant, and I had the hardest time trying to get the Lindens to focus and disclipline the account. It was one of those invisiprim scams put over rental boxes defrauding me and other tenants. There isn’t really an effective way to deal with this, Jessica. What, I’m going to call up Ginsu Linden and tell him I’m suing him for um…US $117.34 of defrauded rent? Nobody has had a big enough case, or the deep pockets and staying power to mount a thing like this, suing Linden, getting Linden to cooperate — whatever. It’s hard, and you can’t expect people to do that as an automatic.
This isn't my theory, it's a legitimate position to take regarding a company that assumes control over land and accounts in the way that it does, and has a record of banishing them when offenses are committed. Try to realize that the practices and laws are being made as we speak, they don't even exist yet, and you are not an expert in this field, you're only muddying the waters with constant hysterical and zealous screaming about absolutes that don't exist. You keep harping on this point as if no one should ever a) take responsibility for ANYTHING but just live in licentious bliss and b) no one can take reasonable measures to deter crime. Both are false takes on the situation.
>You responded, why would the Lindens decision to sue or not sue be important to that proposition. The Lindens would be the people being sued for recovery, or the defendants, and not the plaintiffs, or people filing suit.
Duh, I got all that. It’s not rocket science. You seem to think because there’s no case yet, that there’s no legal interpretation. That’s utterly retarded. Of course there is. It’s only a matter of time.
You spend too much time on the Internet, seeing everything in literal absolutes. It’s terribly wrong.
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jul 2nd, 2007
>Witness X
HAHAHAHA, Guess what, faggot! I’m Bimble Bailey! GTFO, Carigorp.
Janelle Kyomoon
Jul 2nd, 2007
Ok first, Prokofy…. my word salading? I asked how her being at these raids/griefings made her the one that orchestrated it… because she is there DOES NOT mean that she is the master genius behind them.
Oh and as far as people accepting reality… you are getting your panties all in a wad over a VIRTUAL WORLD…. did you happen to read my first post? Maybe you can answer a few of the questions I had in it here… so you can reread it and not have to waste your anger scrolling up
>>>I have frequented Woodbury and I am a part of the group. I have NEVER went out of my way to read or post in these news articles about Woodbury. I am one of the Woodbury folks who DOES NOT grief. So Prokofy there goes your theory of everyone in Woodbury being a griefer. I mainly used Woodbury to learn how to turn prims and other things into clothing. I make costumes and clothing in RL so it was fun to do so in a “virtual” world and have a way to play with ideas that I could eventually make “real”. Tizzers was kind enough to give me a spot in Woodbury to play around with prims and such. I have not once seen Tizzers organize a grief, raid or whatever you want to call it. I would love to see Prokofy prove that Tizzers was behind all these griefing attacks.
Also how anyone can say that there wasn’t educational material or such linking to the real Woodbury is beyond me. There were whole buildings devoted to some clubs at Woodbury including pictures of students in the club. They may not be having classes but they are supporting the students that go to Woodbury.
Anyways the main reason I even posted in this was because I saw that Prokofy stated that she has two kids. I am a mother of one and rarely have time to even get on secondlife or read these articles. How the HELL do you find the time to post so quickly and so many times Prokofy if you have two children to take care of. Even if they are teens you still need to get off the computer long enough to feed them and make sure they are doing what they are supposed to. It honestly scares me that someone like you that can take the time to attack others with your “journalism” as you like to call it but you rarely get off the computer to take care of your children. Maybe this is why children today are having sex at the age of 11 and 12, because their mothers are too busy what is happening in a virtual world to take the time to make sure they get the love and care that they need.
And as far as your journalism goes. You are a journalist in a VIRTUAL world. Not REAL. Most people realize that there is life outside of their computer. The fact that you take your virtual journalism so seriously is very frightening.<<<<
To witnessX…. and just how do those chat logs prove that Tizzers planned these raids???? All it says is how she shared some of the same beliefs of PN… so that automatically makes her the mastermind?? You guys seriously have some skewed perceptions on fact.
Victoria Kemsley
Jul 2nd, 2007
You are responsible for content and behaviour on your land. That’s the facts — in RL as in SL. Your notion that we are NOT responsible has no leg to stand on, and it’s curious that you’re so persistent with it. Read some real cases.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | July 02, 2007 at 03:21 AM
If any object on my rentals is construed as being “child porn,” anyone is welcome to abuse report it. The person who possesses the child porn, not the owner of the rental where they are located, will be answerable in SL.
I’ve confirmed that.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | January 11, 2007 at 03:48 PM
Prok my dear, you need to make up your mind. Is the land owner responsible or not, or is it situation normal, do as I say, not as I do
MaldaviusX
Jul 2nd, 2007
[11:58] Maldavius Figtree: I wonder if you can fix what I just did to WU?
[12:00] Tizzers Foxchase: You know that’s griefing, right?
[12:00] Tizzers Foxchase: There’s about 10 of us sending ARs, and I hear the JLU is going to help too
[12:01] Maldavius Figtree: Doesnt matter, I know Lindens, fail /b/ is fail lulz
[12:01] Maldavius Figtree: The worst I can get is a temporary b&, just for show, lol
[12:01] Tizzers Foxchase: I don’t think lindens would be so quick to be on your side if they knew you were gloating about having them in your pocket.
[12:01] Maldavius Figtree: Go ahead and tell them, give them your chatlogs, they can be faked, and Lindens take my word over yours.
[12:02] Maldavius Figtree: On the other hand, I can fake chatlogs with you and anyone else I want to associate you with, and they would buy it, Lindens are like my tools.
[12:02] Maldavius Figtree: Also, tell your friends over there that I can hear what they’re saying, and tell them yes, I put my scripts there.
Form your own opinions
Jim Schack
Jul 2nd, 2007
the only person getting played here… is you Prok. You’re our bitch.
Aruk Barbosa
Jul 2nd, 2007
How sad and pathetic General Lizard does not approve
Prokofy Neva
Jul 2nd, 2007
>You are responsible for content and behaviour on your land. That’s the facts — in RL as in SL. Your notion that we are NOT responsible has no leg to stand on, and it’s curious that you’re so persistent with it. Read some real cases.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | July 02, 2007 at 03:21 AM
>If any object on my rentals is construed as being “child porn,” anyone is welcome to abuse report it. The person who possesses the child porn, not the owner of the rental where they are located, will be answerable in SL.
>I’ve confirmed that.
>Posted by: Prokofy Neva | January 11, 2007 at 03:48 PM
Prok my dear, you need to make up your mind. Is the land owner responsible or not, or is it situation normal, do as I say, not as I do
Both are true, hon, I know it’s hard to keep both concepts together in one mind, but both are true. Landlords in Second Life ARE responsible for what is on their land — that’s why the Lindens are making them flag their land mature and decide to verify adults or not. They ARE responsible for what their tenants do — that’s why Lindens come and tell ME, not my tenants, to remove obscene pictures should they occur or tell ME, not my tenant, if there is a skybox in Brown, which does not allow skyboxes.
And in RL, Landlords indeed DO have liability for what occurs on their property. Jessica is only providing a very incomplete take on this not based in real case law. All property owners are responsible. They are responsible, for example, for things like ‘attractive nuisances,’ i.e. a pool that is not fenced and secure against children drowning.
>The landowner is responsible if he does nothing; it’s up to him to remove the content. He is indeed responsible for content he does not remove.
But the person who put out the content is ALSO responsible. Their ownership is shown. As Csven often points out, what is in their inventories is visible to the Lindens. So if I find child pornography on my land, for example, it’s my responsibility to remove it, and the Lindens would hold me responsible for removing it, but those people who possess it would then be turned into RL authorities by the Lindens, and the Lindens would indeed cooperate with RL authorities in dealing with them.
I’m amazed at how everyone sees this in some start all-or-nothing extremes, not realizing how real life works.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 2nd, 2007
Janelle Kyomoon, my kids are fine. And it’s also none of your business. If I wish to post a lot, I can surely fit it in with taking care of kids. And they happen to be away camping now anyway. Do you wish YOU had kids? Is that what’s this about? Then I feel for you.
I can only Laugh Out Loud at your pathetic effort to whitewash the whole Woodbury thing and make it out to seem that it is like the Ladies Sewing Circle. Read the next article above. Look at the pictures. Doesn’t look like any university club I’ve ever seen, unless university clubs nowadays go around with giant dongs.
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 2nd, 2007
Three interesting things from your response Prok. Because I support legal sexual activity in SL, I’m not to be trusted. And if you respond incorrectly and say so, I am taking you too literally. Prok, you are not always right. Therefore, I shouldn’t have to find the interpretation of your words in the best possible light for you.
And I’ll just sign off with two words, Class Action.
random
Jul 2nd, 2007
This is great news. One down, one to go (IntLibber Brautigan). Hopefully they will rid the grid of his abusiveness and fruad as well and then they can all go fight their wars elsewhere and not drag the rest of us along.
NobodyImportant
Jul 2nd, 2007
Prokofy Neva said the following:
“[...]that’s why Lindens come and tell ME, not my tenants, to remove obscene pictures should they occur or tell ME, not my tenant, if there is a skybox in Brown, which does not allow skyboxes.”
I call favoritism. Prok is obviously a part of the Feted Inner Core, because the Lindens will come and tell Prok when there’s broadly offensive content and other things violating its properties, yet did no such thing for Woodbury University.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 3rd, 2007
Because I support legal sexual activity in SL, I’m not to be trusted.
Is it legal? That’s what we can’t be certain about. YOU are certainly going to take the position it is, and push very hard to turn and twist the law to accommodate your licentiousness. I certainly don’t think that’s how things should be decided in a society. And you’re going to have to get used to the fact that people have different views than you, push back, and are a force of lobbying themselves, mitigating whatever extreme position you yourself take.
>And if you respond incorrectly and say so, I am taking you too literally.
But the record shows, you take many things literally.
>Prok, you are not always right. Therefore, I shouldn’t have to find the interpretation of your words in the best possible light for you.
I haven’t seen that you’ve proven me wrong. In fact, at least twice, you’ve doubled back and apologized — rightly — for misundertanding and skewing something, like the bit about how landlords are actually tenants in SL.
>And I’ll just sign off with two words, Class Action.
And that is…what? A threat of legal action against me? or something? For what? Having opinions you don’t like? Against LL for not letting you do everything you want even after you signed their TOS?
Prokofy Neva
Jul 3rd, 2007
>I call favoritism. Prok is obviously a part of the Feted Inner Core, because the Lindens will come and tell Prok when there’s broadly offensive content and other things violating its properties, yet did no such thing for Woodbury University.
I think you’re forgetting that they had so many abuse reports, and the Woodbury people ignored them so deliberately, that they shut down their sim once before in warning and banned some of them. Hello?
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 3rd, 2007
Prok, stop pulling my name into other posts. I never stated that a landlord has no responsibility for what goes on. I stated that a landlord didn’t have as much liability for his tenant’s actions as you were implying.
Jessica Holyoke
Jul 3rd, 2007
Prok, stop pulling my name into other posts. I never stated that a landlord has no responsibility for what goes on. I stated that a landlord didn’t have as much liability for his tenant’s actions as you were implying.
Janelle Kyomoon
Jul 3rd, 2007
>>Do you wish YOU had kids?
If you would take the time to fully read Prokofy.. I said I had a child. I am the mother of one and he does take up alot of my time, that is way it astounds me you spend so much of your time posting stories about a virtual world. It seems like you spend most of your time following and watching what other people do in a virtual world instead of getting away from you computer and watching your own children. You surrond yourself with this virtual world and make it into a real one. You have become so obessesed with a FAKE world to the point of going to great extremes to ignore your real life to make sure that you know exactly what these people are doing. And you DO NOT know exactly what these people are doing, you assume and make your own facts out of whats in your head.
>>Doesn’t look like any university club I’ve ever seen, unless university clubs nowadays go around with giant dongs.
Obviously you did not take the time AGAIN to read what I had posted. I was talking about the Woodbury university itself. The buildings in the above ground area that housed clubs for the University. Some of which had pictures of students from Woodbury as witnessed by more than one person. I am posting about the WOODBURY SIM not the few people that are in the group in reference to the University clubs. You complained about a lack of “educational” material at the university and I was just disproving you. So get over yourself and learn to fully read peoples statements before you jump to conclusions. And as far as your other article. I find it hiliarous that you again think that Tizzers is behind it all just because she was there. You choose the guilty by association way of blaming her and you dear Prokofy are wrong. Was she there with griefers… yes.. did she orchestrate it… there is no way for you to prove it.
I do not try to white wash the fact that people are griefing but I do not think you lump all those that are in Woodbury into the griefer category. I am not a greifer yet I belong to Woodbury. I have not once did anything to grief OR went on a raid. I mostly sat around playing with clothing on SL the little amount of time away from my child I can get. And that again brings me back to my first statement. How can you sit around on your computer all day and have two children at the same time, doesn’t work. Yeah your kids are away at camp for the weekend but there are tons of second life herald “news” stories from you. Your virtual world has become your real world. I honestly feel sorry for your children. They are getting a very skewed perception of how life works from you. You make no sense in your responses and constantly contradict yourself. While two people other than you (Intlibber and Jessica) have constantly brought up rational and intelligent points. All you can do is finger point and blame.
WitnessX
Jul 3rd, 2007
>>To witnessX…. and just how do those chat logs prove that Tizzers planned these raids???? All it says is how she shared some of the same beliefs of PN… so that automatically makes her the mastermind?? You guys seriously have some skewed perceptions on fact.
Since your buttons are so easy to push. Apparently you didn’t read correctly. She doesn’t have to grief or plan with her main Tizzers account, that’s why she uses ALTS. GASP! What a concept isn’t it. Learn to read before you kneejerk respond.
You seem to neglect the fact that the Lindens must have found something to take this action against Woodbury. Every keeps glossing over this fact, the Lindens have access to all sorts of logs and data that YOU do not.
“You guys seriously have some skewed perceptions on fact.”
Hmm, seems like the Lindens have ALL the facts and you have nothing but an OPINION. Have fun there.
Another Associate
Jul 3rd, 2007
Tizzers WAS fully aware of all that happened. Whether she is the actual sim owner is irrelevant; she was the acting owner/manager/supervisor. She may be claiming to study online culture, but the *chans, and /b/ in particular, are hardly a representative sampling of modern online culture. That is utter hogwash. Even the claim that /b/ is its own living “community” is pretty much bunk, because one of the primary things a community does is take a concerned look at the behavior of its members, and put in social discouragement (shunning, casting out, “banning” whatever) if not more (e.g. going to the authorities) for harmful behavior. But these online groups purposefully turn a blind eye at best, and actively encourage and support illegal and hurtful online activities at worst.
If you are going to study a group of miscreants educationally, you usually don’t do it by opening up your back door to them, offering them a free place to trade their paraphenalia, and leading them to places where they can practice their vandalism. Where’s the neutrality in this study? The partiality? Completely nonexistent, as you can probably see yourself from Tizzers’ comments in the article.
There is a distinct possibility that RL Woodbury University is actually involved in this on a financial level. It may not itself be aware of this misuse of funding (I hope it isn’t), in which case I could possibly see them getting reimbursed directly, as they may be victims as much as anybody. Of course, they probably SHOULD be paying attention to where their money is going, but….
DF
Jul 3rd, 2007
“because the Lindens will come and tell Prok when there’s broadly offensive content and other things violating its properties, yet did no such thing for Woodbury University.”
Au contraire, Foxchase HAD been warned, and even previously banned for griefing.
Prokofy Neva
Jul 3rd, 2007
>It’s as if LL took Friedman offline because we decided to hang out in the WTC basement or something, Intlibber can’t be held responsible for the actions of every person that comes to his sim, and especially things they do outside of it. That’s what they expected of me.
When Tizzers herself comes along on the raiding posses, and stands by typing while her partner pushes giant flexidongs all over and her comrades release Jellowned particles everywhere, could she then be responsible? Because she has knowledge then. So…what’s she doing standing idly by, then?