Will Stroker and Munchflower Win?
by Alphaville Herald on 16/09/09 at 8:35 am
Can players p0wn game gods in court?
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
The gloves have come off with Stroker Serpentine and Muchflower Zaius’ class action lawsuit alleging intellectual property violations for both copyright and trademarked works on the part of Linden Lab. Both Mr. Serpentine and Ms. Zaius run well-known and successful businesses in the Second Life – Ms. Zaius sells the popular Nomine line of avatar skins and clothes, and Mr. Serpentine’s sexbed business has been covered in depth by the Herald. Their complaint paints a picture of rampant intellectual property theft in Second Life with little in the way of effective enforcement on the part of Linden Lab – a state of affairs that many Second Life residents find all too familiar.
Can Serpentine and Zaius win?
Mr. Serpentine told the Herald that KamberEdelson – his legal council – is nearly certain they can get class action status for the lawsuit, which would allow other Second Life trademark and copyright holders to join the action.
This presents a nightmarish prospect for Linden Lab – the players and content creators that built the Second Life world joining forces to hold the Lab accountable for effectively enforcing the Digital Rights Management system that supports the virtual economy – and real life trademarks and copyrights as well. The bad press this scenario would create is hard to imagine – but the wheels are already in motion with two of the highest visibility entrepreneurs in Second Life heading to court.
Historically, the Lab's marketing efforts have run miles ahead of their ability to deliver, and actions that undermine player's economic interests along with inconsistent enforcement of ever changing rules has become the norm as the Lab changes the game at will to maximize it's own profits. This could change if the lawsuit succeeds.
Beyond forcing the Lindens to dedicate more staff to DMCA enforcement, a successful suit could also mean the end to unlimited unverified accounts – accounts that make IP enforcement actions an endless game of hide and seek, or as the complain puts it:
Serpentine and Zaius seem to have engaged experience council – a look at KamberEdelson’s website suggests they specialize in exactly this sort of litigation. The site says:
“We have been one of the only firms to consistently challenge the use of faulty digital rights management schemes and win. We were lead counsel in one of the largest computer virus cases ever resolved that resulted in the replacement of hundreds of thousand of music CDs by Sony BMG. We have challenged and achieved changes in digital rights protection schemes used by some of the world’s largest game publishers including Ubisoft.”
Winning a class action lawsuit will require experienced council and deep pockets. Given their reputation, we assume KamberEdelson would not have taken this case without expecting to win. Recovering from the public relations disaster Linden Lab is facing may require more than lawyers and deep pockets.
If the content creators give up on Second Life, what is left?
Ayu
Sep 16th, 2009
Free accounts should have strict limits. They should not be able to upload. They should not be able to receive money or sell things. If business is important to you, then get a paid account. If you’re just here to play, then just play. There are plenty of things to do in SL beside making money. A free account should be limited, like a demo. People who pay to be in SL should have more benefits than just being able to buy mainland and have their creations stolen. Theres a big difference between socialism and piracy.
Darien Caldwell
Sep 16th, 2009
A lot of content creators, like myself, have already given up on Second Life, due to the very reasons outlined in the Lawsuit. LL should probably be thanking Stroker for forcing them to move into the world of a responsible company of the 20th century, which protects it’s content and the content of those who use their tools to create.
If LL wins this case, they will actually lose, in every other way. They will lose the respect of content creators, their residents, and never be taken seriously as a platform again. *Grabs a big bowl of Popcorn*
Ajax
Sep 16th, 2009
I think they probably have an outstanding lawsuit. I have noticed that there is lots and lots of pirated content selling on XstreetSL!!! The infamous “64 free animations” are being sold in countless items on XstreetSL even though LL has published a statement saying that they will vigorously go after anyone using the “64 free animations.” I have personally submitted reports to LL about the pirates as they are competing with my original animation content on XstreetSl (AjaxGear) but have never gotten a reply from them. I hope they win and win big.
David Crespo
Sep 16th, 2009
Seriously?
My concern is that this is a marketing ploy by Stroker, he’s done this kind of action in the past. It gave him a huge amount of publicity and therefore revenue. It’s not actually an action yet, just a submission. So we’re very much speculating on the what-if here. In the meantime, Eros is getting amazing marketing. Remember, this guy is making over $2,700 a day.
If he does win, who wins? LL have to get better at cleaning up on IP restrictions? Which is great, as this should be standard. In recent months this has got better, we’ve seen a lot of rip-off products vanishing off the Xstreet list. For this to actually work, it needs to come from a RL brand. Wasn’t the whole Tazer thing dropped already? Surely, this sets a precedent in what happens next.
As I have pointed out, a lot of designers actively rip off a lot of RL designs, either knowingly or by mistake. The whole ‘inspired by’ or in ‘homage’ moniker, is not a justification for theft. Whether this is Eros or Nike it doesn’t matter. A lot of the furniture in SL is a total rip off, either Ikea inspired or a named design classic. The irony here, if IKEA came down hard on this, we would all complain about THE MAN, and how it’s not fair.
My real concern, this is all in reaction to Zindra and adult content. Stroker and his adult content developers are in serious trouble. The restrictions for a purchase, a stigma attached. Therefore, their sales are going to plummet. I’m surprised Eros hasn’t filed ‘forced eviction by landlord’ action
In Awe
Sep 16th, 2009
It would seem that this story is the talk of the virtual town today. from the Xstreet forums to metaplace news everyone is talking about how the virtual porn maker Stroker Serpentine is taking the hosts of SL to Court. One such intresting comment on the SL forums is regarding the terms of service.
in section
2.6 Linden Lab may suspend or terminate your account at any time, without refund or obligation to you.
Linden Lab has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to suspend or terminate your Account, terminate this Agreement, and/or refuse any and all current or future use of the Service without notice or liability to you. In the event that Linden Lab suspends or terminates your Account or this Agreement, you understand and agree that you shall receive no refund or exchange for any unused time on a subscription, any license or subscription fees, any content or data associated with your Account, or for anything else.
Makes me wonder just howmuch this stroker guy thought about his choice to take the very people who provide him a service that allows him to earn a real world living. Even if he wins the case and forces linden lab to re-think thier stance on trademark and copywrite protections on SL. What is to stop Linden Lab from simply not allowing Stroker to use SL anymore?
So yes, Stroker and Munchflower may win in court, but they may loose all thier hard work in the SL world if LL decides to refuse them access to Second Life.
Anon Professional
Sep 16th, 2009
The lawsuit, in the current form, will crash and burn. After naming the plaintiffs in section 1, section 2 reads like a joke:
“Second Life is an adults-only online 3D virtual world that allows its users to do exactly what the name implies: live a second life separate and distinct from the users’ real-world lives. Within Second Life, users (known as “Residents”) can obtain employment, purchase land, commit crimes, build homes and careers, make friends, fall in love, have sex, visit museums, and most important, make and spend money.”
1. It’s not adults-only. There’s Teen Second Life, which while fenced off from Second Life, is wholly manages as the same platform.
2. The whole suit is riddled with type-o errors both in terminology and grammar, showing lack of attention to detail. “3D” is properly “3-D”. “online” is just starting to be recognized as a word. (“on line” being correct.) “users’” should be “user’s”, “lives” should be “life”. This is just one paragraph. If you skim the whole document, there’s plenty more. If this is the kind of attention that the lawyers bring to the table, it’s a bad sign for the plaintiffs.
3. The whole lawsuit is supposing that a virtual world is an alternate reality. This seems to be completely opposite of what they should be arguing – namely that virtual worlds are an extension of Internet-space and that all real-world rights apply. Linden Lab may be able to get the whole damn thing dismissed just by saying, “Well, if it’s a separate life, then real world rules don’t apply.”
3a. Along the same lines, this shows a pretty naive understanding of the application of virtual worlds. Who the hell proofed this document?
And this is just the second section. After reading much of the document and skimming the rest, it’s like Stroker and/or Munch wrote this, handed it to a lawyer and said, “have at it”.
Then there’s the obvious issue – this is the Internet. It’s very difficult to sue an ISP / browser maker for actions of their users. The whole “Linden Lab indirectly profits from land sales” argument is very weak, especially given there wasn’t even any statistics. You need to prove damages to win a case, and the plaintiffs haven’t even shown damages.
We shall see.
Darien Caldwell
Sep 16th, 2009
Losing one’s work to force LL to take responsibility would be a small sacrifice for the greater good. But as well, for LL to take such action against someone who filed suit would certainly be seen as retaliation, and would result in a whole other round of lawsuits.
When Mark Bragg sued LL, and technically won by default (yes I know it was settled out of court, but technically he won), they restored his account afterward. I would expect nothing different in this case.
BamBam
Sep 16th, 2009
I am glad to see that someone is pushing LL to do something. But on the other hand I am worried that this maybe a great way to get rid of competition in SL. There are so many shades of grey, its just not a fine line of black and white. If you make a sex bed in sl are you going to have to take it down because Stroker thinks it is to close to the same size of bed as his or the colors match to closely? Sure, I get the trademark thing and using someone else’s artwork. But there are just so many ways to make a box. I can easily see how this could get out of control.
Josette Windlow
Sep 16th, 2009
It seems to stand reason that even if the submission doesn’t go through, it has stirred the pot up a bit. Scan the comment sections on each of these “reports” on the case. The action -is- bringing the discussion out into the very open. And not just in tech support forums either…It’s being discussed in-world by creators and consumers alike, it’s showing up among the sites I read for entertainment. So all in all…this is a HUGE step for all content creators.
P.S. Not to mention, with the emergence of similar virtual worlds coming onto the scene, this is an important lesson that they can learn from straight out of the gate.
Ancient1
Sep 16th, 2009
If I were to use my Inventory Backup product to make a copy of someone’s product and put it up for sale, my IP address and my avatar should be banned from SL once it was determined I was in the wrong. I believe that is TOS right now and justifiably so.
But, if I were to buy a no copy/no transfer product and make my own prims with the same size settings as the purchased product, texture it with the textures I have, and link together that creation to be like the one I purchased, then SL is going to have a nearly impossible task of managing that. Comparing Avatar A’s original against the new hand made copy from Avatar B, and making a decision about a violation would have to be a manual process of comparison which is a very costly and improbable arbitration process for Linden Labs to manage. I have serious doubts that any court system would ever mandate that level of compliance because I believe good lawyers for LL could convince a court that it’s just too big a process to manage. I’m on Linden Labs side on this point, because they don’t have the human or financial resources to manage this.
Establishing a system within Second Life that provides for the basic principals of product patent or copyright to exist is a very slippery slope for Linden Labs. I’m not saying it cannot be done, but I can assure you that the conflicts will be unmanageable. Just image you are a noobie who has built in a public sandbox your new office suite of furniture that you are so proud of, and upon putting it into your little 10×20 rental space to sell, you get a IM from an Linden telling you that you are in violation of your TOS because your product looks like one from a guy you have never heard of, who owns five stores, three sims and has previously registered his 900 products with the Linden copyright office. What kind of message does that send to those thinking of joining SL and wanting to build? This is unmanageable.
However, this transparency behind the avatars is a whole other matter. If something is to be done to slow down infringement on designs, (I don’t think it can be totally stopped) then if I see a “for sale” product that is virtually identical to one of mine, then what if I could right click on it and get the RL persons name, and the home town of who was selling it and the history of previous owners, information which came from a verifiable credit card on file with Linden Labs and we had agreed to this in the TOS? So, if you sell anything in Second Life then Linden Labs would state your RL identity in the properties of your products and that carries forward in a product history. Except for a very small group of hard core thief’s who don’t care what their neighbors and friends in RL think of them anyway, this would so intimidate the vast majority of people stealing and selling that I suspect the infringement would drop dramatically. And the remaining thieves? I would know who stole and was now selling a copy of my product because my name was in the history, and I could individually take action against that person if I so choose. My Inventory Backup product could even be forced into carrying forward this information in its copies or being banned. This method reduces the involvement of Linden Labs to a manageable economic and human resources level and provides the creators in SL some level of security. All we give up is our RL identity which is nothing to hide anyway, ask Facebook how they are doing these days with that real life thingy.
- Ancient1 Aeon
Another anon
Sep 17th, 2009
Anon Professional: none of the apparent grammatical errors you point out are in fact, errors. Your inability to read one sentence pretty much invalidates your credibility here.
Obvious Schism
Sep 17th, 2009
@ Darien
I do believe that we are in the 21st century now – at least those of us who use the Gregorian calendar
Ninety Nine Days Until Christmas!
Sep 17th, 2009
My two cents.
Linden Lab does not strictly provide a business environment service. Yes, it points out that money has been and can be made within the environment and even publish a basic book on it (The Entrepreneur’s Guide To Second Life).
I don’t personally believe that there should be any form of intellectual property within SL at all. The only reason it exists is because people have started making money from the system and are trying to protect that source of money. I can understand that of course.
But the sooner everyone gets rids of this idea of doing business in SL, the sooner we’ll get back to a state of people being creative and sharing for the enjoyment of the process. When that happens, quality will soar and creativity will soar.
People will still be able to make money from SL through other means and the culture as a whole will return to something more like its original purpose. When I began, someone would get given something and share it with their friends. Then one of those friends would come back a little later with an edited and improved version and that would start spreading through the network. These days, there’s too many people who have lost sight of the creative networking side of SL and can only see the place as a business platform.
If Stroker wins, SL will lose.
Coke Supply
Sep 17th, 2009
My two cents:
As a Herald reporter I have had many content creators complain to me about how LL have handled their DMCA’s. Many of those creators believe that LL are deliberately dragging their heels and deliberately looking in the WRONG locations for the infringing items specified in the DMCA’s. Many complain that the thieves, upon having the items removed and/or having their accounts closed, simply return the next day to steal everything again. Some of the merchants have had entire sims worth of content stolen by GROUPS of thieves working together. In ALL cases I have heard, it seems that LL are simply not responding in a fit way, and the affected merchants that have come to me in the hope of me writing a Herald article about what happened, have ALL refused to allow me to put their name in print because they are all scared of retribution from LL.
It’s about fucking time LL got kicked in the nuts for it.
professional anon anon
Sep 17th, 2009
@anon professional
You are seriously retarded, and despite your choice of name, i suspect you are a picky cat lady, not a professional.
If you are a professional, you’re the guy in the next cubicle who counts his paperclips every day to make sure none are missing and who has an egg salad sandwich for lunch day after day, leaving the rest of the office to smell like ass. Just to be sure, I’m going over there and taking a paperclip right now.
Go look at the Post 6 grrls some more and leave this to the big kids please.
Hold On
Sep 17th, 2009
@Coke Supply
The sentence you uttered “As a Herald reporter I have had many….” made me laugh so hard I crapped my pants.
Surely you’re not thinking those dumb, vindictive, self-serving cartoons you made make you a reporter…
Darien Caldwell
Sep 17th, 2009
“I do believe that we are in the 21st century now – at least those of us who use the Gregorian calendar
”
Yes, I’m just giving LL some slack, getting them into the 20th century will be hard enough.
Corsi
Sep 17th, 2009
Okay That’s it.
I have been keeping up with this entire thing watching comments and reading through the entire lawsuit.
It’s no secret that Stroker and I do not get along well. But I have to support him on this one. And I game my personal support last night to him. Basicly a nod in each others direction and moving right along.
But it takes that special stupid Moron in the group of comments so far that just makes me want to say this …
@Ninety nine Days…
Are you out of your fucking mind? Give everything we have away for everyone to freely use and abuse? Destroy the entire economy of Second Life? Yeah that MIGHT have worked when things were in the development stage and there was no exchange but that doesn’t work nowadays. You have the most bizarre illusions of grandeur I have ever seen.
Eliminate IP???? How in the world would that PROMOTE content creation?? Why build if you have to give it to any newbie walking around with a box attached to his hand? I don’t work my tail off every day just to have anyone and everyone use them.
As an example of what damage full permissions stuff just given away would do to the grid … Lets take the MLP animation scripts in game. They were handed out full perm. Someone found a set of No Modify animations that were copyable and transferable. The MLP freebie bed was made. Why buy from anyone else when EVERYONE can get a hold of this freebie crap bed? Yes it had just 8 sex animations in it but then you had another issue. Craig Altman got abused because his cuddles which are sold at 1000 L$ a set to be full perm for builders were all added to it. So his business, Strokers, mine and every other animation creator lost money and had to drop prices to compete with Free? Does that sound like incentive to you?
Now this was a matter of two in world people both giving their own content away free. And thankfully it was not very good stuff. What do you suppose would happen to Strokers business if say … Abranimations got hacked and their content tossed all around the grid? Well that would put every animator totally out of business so why stay? Move on where you can still make money.
Tell you what. Come on over this Saturday. I run a contest every week in my sandbox. Iron Builder. If you are so ‘creative’ you ought to be able to take first place. Show up around … 12:30 SLT so you can hear the rules. Building time starts at 1PM Sharp. The sim is FurNation Hell. Don’t be late.
Edna
Sep 17th, 2009
Once again, LL doesn’t owe anyone a living. They’ve already provided you a platform where you use their resources to make money. SL is what SL is. If the charges in this lawsuit are correct, content creators have been very aware for a long time that their content isn’t safe in SL. If you know full well that content isn’t safe and you continue to produce new content in SL despite this knowledge then YOU made a conscience, informed choice to do so. Bitching about it is childish when you are the only one to blame for your choice.
It is very simple, if you don’t like how SL works go somewhere else. For those that say “If we leave you’ll have no content”, I say bullshit, since there is money to be made there will always be someone creating and selling content in SL. No content creator is irreplaceable. If you leave, someone else will be eager to take your place. No offence. “It’s just the nature of the way things works”.
Tertullian Blatherskate, Esq., of Blatherskate, Snopes, Gantry, and Blatherskate
Sep 17th, 2009
Damn you all to hell. You people have lost all perspective.
Content theft? IP? Hah. These are ancient legal matters, and they have nothing, in terms of cutting-edge jurisprudence, on the murder of Sion Chickens by Linden Lag, I mean, Lab, in recent months.
I am preparing a legal brief on behalf of hundreds of farmers and their chickens whose investments in artificial life have been ruined, utterly ruined, by the callous disregard of Second Life’s software behemoth. We face a veritable apocalypse of broken dreams, and eggs, and you digerati rant on about some fellow’s sex beds and gothic dildos!
We seek compensation for emotional pain and suffering, as well as financial disaster given the constant need to revive our dead chickens. We demand compensation!
We demand that the voice of the chickens be heard!
Ninety Nine Days Until Christmas
Sep 17th, 2009
@Corsi
Just because I voice an opinion that you don’t like, doesn’t mean you should get snarky.
And yes, I do think SL would be a better place if it had less business and more promotion of individual/group creativity.
To pick up on one of your points, you wouldn’t *have* to give anything to anyone e.g. the passing n00b example you stated. You could choose to give to whoever you wanted to just like you could choose not to give. Perhaps you’d do it because maybe they’d improve on what you’d built, add something new to it, tweak it, make it better. Maybe that benefit would come around to you again, each generation adding something of value instead of the consumer hell that the majority of SL is at present.
If I could just pick up on a second point you made, about the alleged damage that giving out free full-permissions stuff would do to the grid. Well, it wouldn’t do any damage to the grid at all. It would certainly make it difficult for businesses to compete though. I’m sure that Microsoft feels the same way about Linux, don’t you? Some choose to go with the Microsoft option, some choose the Linux option. Now I’m sure that you’re already thinking “I can’t see Microsoft giving away their IP” and you’re quite right. But the Linux model works too and it hasn’t destroyed the known universe just yet.
So I have to disagree with your example of the bed. The point you make about why would anyone buy a product when they can get a competitor’s product for free is valid but it doesn’t “damage” the grid. It may cause problems for competing content creators but that’s the nature of the beast (I do however agree that using someone’s animations in the bed example your provided is not fair under the existing system). Let’s say I build computers and charge people only for the parts and stuff. I do it entirely from enjoyment of the building process and because I know I’m helping people to add value to their lives. I don’t actually do this btw but a friend of mine does. I’m sure Dell and all the other manufacturers would prefer he didn’t do this and I’m sure it reduces their profits to a tiny degree. But the fact is, it’s possible to build for a wider variety of reasons than making profit. It’s also important to remember that producing goods in SL doesn’t keep employment figures up or contribute to taxes or whatever – once something is built it’s built and your only overhead is tier/rent etc. To try to use a RL comparison simply doesn’t work because the two worlds function so differently.
Can I see your viewpoint? Yes, absolutely I can and I can respect your viewpoint even though I don’t necessarily agree with it. But we’re not talking about you spending all day making something to then give it away. We’re not talking about stealing the product of your labours and giving it to all regardless like a communist state. We’re talking perhaps more about a community sharing the product of their labours and growing in creativity as a result.
Thanks for the invite to your building contest btw. I’d only embarrass myself though as I’m no builder and don’t claim to be (although I do occasionally try and enjoy the learning process). Unless you want a couple of dozen plywood boxes?
But maybe if I had to learn to build and script for myself more rather than simply buy everything and if everyone else did the same, then perhaps the overall levels of creativity and skill would increase?
I may be an idealist in this regard but I can live with that. There’s too much consumerism and business in RL without turning SL into an extension of it.
nicely put there
Sep 17th, 2009
very lucid and compelling point of view there Nine Days…
thanks for sharing
Disenfranchised
Sep 17th, 2009
@Darien
Big ditto on the first paragraph
>>>>They will lose the respect of content creators, their residents, and never be taken seriously as a platform again.
I think the mostly already have. I’ve long since closed up shop, sold my land, and now only am in SL because of friends. LL is trying to survive on naive new members who are aren’t jaded … yet, and members who are just waiting for something better and not from LL.
@Hold on
Big ditto. ROFL. Coke’s such an attention whore.
@Ancient1/Tom
Agreed. Content creators who want to sell or transfer creations (theirs or others) need to have their identify verified and personal information on file so that content creators can pursue legal action against thieves in court. Of course, LL is in no rush to adopt such policies.
For years LL has woven a set of policies that, not surprisingly, benefit themselves at the expense of SL communities (content creators, land owners, paying members, veteran members, etc). They know that it takes time for new users to learn all the pitfalls of SL. By that time, members become vested in their relationships, creations, land, shops, etc. And in the meantime, LLs rakes in the money. This doesn’t however stop people from leaving for SL for greener pastures as many have.
I for one am waiting on the edge of my seat for a better virtual world where “Your world, Your Imagination” isn’t a load of crap.
Sixty Nine Days Till Thanksgiving
Sep 17th, 2009
It really is 69 days until Thanksgiving.
When I realized that, I stopped writing my snarky comment about 99 Days’ pie in the sky idealism and decided that instead of being a hater, I’ll dream of turkey, pumpkin pie and the dulcet sounds of clucking sion chickens. Ah, serenity now.
That is, unless Coke Supply calls himself a herald reporter again and I have to get all medieval on someone.
Chicken Liberation Front Of Second Life
Sep 17th, 2009
Finally someone speaks for the chickens with no voices!
Just remember! All the suffering that those poor chickens went through was caused by businesses protecting their IPs! What is an eye pea anyway? *shrugs*
On behalf of chickens everywhere, the Chicken Liberation Front of Second Life thanks you Tertullian Blatherskate! May the seed of your loins be fruitful in the belly of your womens!
Corsi
Sep 17th, 2009
@ Ninety Nine Days
Now. You DO realize something that you said just shot yourself in the foot. The people that made Linux originally gave out their OS open and free hoping they would be able to sell software they created for it. The same thing you are suggesting.
That company is now bankrupt. And it’s the end user programmers that have to make up their own utilities for it. Thus why it’s hard to find programs that will run on Linux. In other words … It’s hard to find creators that will build for the platform.
Wait … Creators building for the platform can be immediately and with 100% accuracy be applied to Second Life. (As well as many other things) So that little tidbit of history as you so pointed out shows that your own statement is a bad judgment call.
No Linux has not destroyed the known universe. But it has destroyed it’s own. Now what would happen if Microsoft just gave out everything they had open source? Opening up every program they have to anyone that wants it? What would it’s worth be? Who wold make another document editing software if they can get word and office for free? No one. So those companies that make third party software for Microsoft go belly up. They stop making that product and have to go into something entirely different since the market there is worthless.
Wait … There it is again. Nothing to gain in that market so why bother? Hmmm. Sounds like a scenario that could happen in Second Life to me.
You have an opinion based on personal wants. I have an opinion based on evidence of similar situations that happened in the past. This isn’t an opinion of mine. This is an experience.
I suggest you read up on the facts at hand instead of driving by an emotion. I know you want to get stuff free. And Second Life can get expensive to get all the little toys that are around. But That is not the way life in general works. It’s like going to work every day and slaving away hours and hours on end to get told good job see you tomorrow while you don’t get paid.
Yes Second Life is a game. But it’s real time and real work and real effort that go into building in this game. That effort is what Stroker Serpentine and Muchflower Zaius are trying to defend here.
@ Stroker Serpentine and Muchflower Zaius
I don’t know you Muchflower and Stroker I know things between us are … not ideal. But my hats off to the both of you. If there is anything I can do to assist you please just let me know.
Emperor Norton Hears a Who?
Sep 17th, 2009
Tertullian Blatherskate @”We seek compensation for emotional pain and suffering, as well as financial disaster given the constant need to revive our dead chickens. We demand compensation!
We demand that the voice of the chickens be heard!”
I am with you on this Terualan. This sex bed nonsense is a complete distraction from the real tragedy in Second Life; the death of countless chickens! I say unless the legal dogs of war loose now upon the chicken killers and any who aid abate them, even The Lab! No longer should chicken farmers have to log in to face dead and wounded hens.
We are desperate though reasonable men! This Chicken Abuse Will be stopped
Ninety Nine Days Until Christmas
Sep 17th, 2009
@Corsi
I knew you were actually quite reasonable
Thanks for your very informative reply to my own comment. I still think some of the points I make stand in principle but I do take on board your own thoughts. I do actually understand your viewpoint and agree as to how things stand in the current system. Permit me to wish for a more fulfilling system though 
I would make one very small point though.
“I know you want to get stuff free.”
Actually I don’t, not even a little bit. In the current system that exists I actually spend a great deal of money supporting my activities in SL and I’m more than happy to reward the people who’ve put the time and effort into creating content
If the world morphed overnight into something akin to the ideas I’ve put forward, I’d be the first to sign up for building and scripting classes so that I could do my share. I’m the first to feel bad if someone gives me something and I have nothing to share with them in return.
janeforyou Barbara
Sep 17th, 2009
sex sells in PG sims….i took a look in search..i set it on PG only..typed in “Lesbian” 8 sims poped up full of “Adult” search words..all are sexclubs or nude beaches even shops… then i turned on “Mature” in search 19 sims with “adult” search words poped up.. after sept 15 all this are suppose to be set ” adult”
Zindra the “Adult” land and lots of other that do follow the rules set there land to “adult”. i know there are 30.000 Sims in SL.. but i had a email from the lab telling me what to do to do all leagal and i did it.. it pisses me off that The Lab dont chekk all this that abuse the rules and brakes the rules get away with it!!
Stroker and me and lots of others that advertise for sex items we sell are trying to do the right stuff.My business are not big, but i do like to have total ownersip on it.
wat
Sep 17th, 2009
@ Coke Supply
You mean the herald actually won’t publish something just because someone asked you not to? Since when did this website have any morals?
Jumpman Lane
Sep 17th, 2009
This is a publicity stunt. If your content is being stolen and you have the means, sue the thieves NOT LINDEN LAB. Linden Lab says all the right things about IP rights. Does all that is required morally and by law. There are legit channels of addressing content theft. Use them. I’ve heard “this” (The Lawsuit) referred as Stroker’s “way back” weeks ago (way back from obscurity) which I (personally) am supposed to have loved. Well I don’t. Just as I never thought sim crashing was cool, I don’t think anything that ATTACKS Second Life at its core (The Lab, god save The Lab)is ‘cool’. We LIKE Second Life, and though we’ve always admired Ol’ Stroke, we line up with the Lindens on this one! Yay Linden Lab! Boo Eros!
Obvious Schism
Sep 18th, 2009
@ Darien
Aah yes, I see where you are coming from now. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. Perhaps LL will wind the clock back sufficiently far in order that we can retrospectively have this discussion, armed with hindsight and the vision that a crystal ball brings.
Actually, I do think that LL have been sitting on their hands on this one and its long been a ticking time bomb. Too late for a bucket of water now, though.
Cats, bags, horses, stables etc.
Yours, Obviously
Ric Mollor
Sep 18th, 2009
Seeing how the comments have drifted a bit off topic already I might as well throw in my .02 also.
Why has no one mentioned that the whole economic model that exists within SL is fatally broken from the start? As the content system currently works it’s possible to.
*Mass produce any creation at zero cost.
*Keep virtually(no pun intended)unlimited inventory and transfer an unlimited number of items between unlimited users at no cost.
*Use items perpetually unless the creator has went to specific efforts to limit the items lifespan.
Given the above conditions it’s quite obvious that, with sufficient time, users will create enough free, full permission items to have major effect on the economy. Linden Lab has probably been aware of this situation for a very long time as it would seem to work to their advantage since the majority of their revenue is generated by charges for hosting services (virtual land) and not from transaction fees or Linden currency creation.
A world populated with free items is certain more attractive to potential users than one where a cost (both financial and *time based*)in incurred for each incremental upgrade and the ‘game gods’ of SL certainly understand that they are in direct competition with the many entertainment options available to online consumers.
Drifting further OT I fail to see how a ‘live’ building contest could resolve much as creation of quality objects for a 3D environment depends much more on use of ‘out of world’ tools for mesh and texture creation. The importation to ‘in world’ is the final step and should hold no surprises unless the rendering engine has undocumented bugs. That’s not how it is done in SL? Well, perhaps that explains why SL looks crude when compared to other games with much lower system requirements. :^)
Finally, ‘Linux’ was never a ‘for profit’ business that went bankrupt though there are many businesses that make revenue (and profit) from Linux related activities. It’s my understanding that the Linux kernel was created as a hobby project when Linus Torvalds observed that there were enough open source pieces to make a fairly complete operating system if someone wrote a kernel. The rest, as they say, is history with over 25,000 easily installable, *free* programs available for the current Linux platform.
Best of luck to Stroker/Kevin.
Darien Caldwell
Sep 18th, 2009
“Perhaps LL will wind the clock back sufficiently far in order that we can retrospectively have this discussion, armed with hindsight and the vision that a crystal ball brings.”
Careful now, someone may take umbrance and call you a ‘Smug Burgher’ or some other rakish term from a bygone era if you keep that up. :p
But yes, there is still a lot of events yet to occur, getting there is half the fun.
Johnny S
Sep 19th, 2009
@Ric
Spot on. The value of virtual objects inevitably trends towards zero, due to the dilution of the socially necessary labour time in their production (the Marxist analysis) or the drop in the marginal value caused by their non-perishible nature (the capitalist analysis). It all adds up to bad news for the virtual economy.
@Corsi
“Thus why it’s hard to find programs that will run on Linux”
Ever hear of Apache? The most popular server on the WWW? Runs on Linux?
I gave up Windows for Linux 6 years ago, and since then I’ve had no problem finding programs to do anything I wanted, which work better than the Microsoft equivalents, are continously refined and updated by the community around them, and which are free. In return I do what I can for the community. Others run profitable businesses providing support to the growing number of enterprises which have switched to open-source solutions to their IT needs. Everybody wins, except Microsoft.
Sinden Lucks
Sep 27th, 2009
Not sure exactly what people expect. Linden has allowed people to be ripped off right to their faces. Prove it they say… yeahp…
Atra Lupis
Sep 28th, 2009
Sorry Anya, your blathering concerning free account restrictions is really nothing more than the rambings of someone that has to compete with free accounts.
Your little idea would prevent most people from being able to see if they can even make a successful business within Second Life, as they’d be forced to pay even MORE than the average “free” account does to start up a business!
You may think that having a business in Second Life should only be for those who are “serious business people”, but that view wholly disregards the many successful businesses that are run by hobbists and/or “free” accounts.
As successful as some of them are, many barely break even as it is, adding the aditional $10 to their expenses could very well turn into the final nail in their coffins.
Then you have those who struggle to start up a business, most have other issues to worry about, without having to pay a premium just to try and bring in even a tiny bit of extra cash.
As for hobbists and those who create for fun or the community … (Begin sarcasm) Sure, make them pay for something that they do without true care for getting anything out of it. Why not? After all, it isn’t like they do anything at all that makes Second Life better for anyone! (End sarcasm)
Christ, I know a few people who would rather pull the plug than be forced to pay for a hobby or for the fun/joy of creating and bettering their community.
I also know at least one family that tried to make a little extra cash with a Second Life business or two … There was no way in hell that they could have continually paid a premium, just to see if they could make a business.
Let’s not forget that you’d also be forcing casual users to pay a premium, just to take a snapshot and store it in Second Life or even frame it for their rented homes. In addition you’d be forcing this same premim on people who build only for themselves, with no intention to sell to anyone.
In closing: If you don’t like “free” accounts and refuse to consider what I have said, well then let me know the name of your business so I can refrain from supporting your narrow minded ass.
Atra Lupis
Sep 28th, 2009
Sorry Anya, your blathering concerning free account restrictions is really nothing more than the rambings of someone that has to compete with free accounts.
Your little idea would prevent most people from being able to see if they can even make a successful business within Second Life, as they’d be forced to pay even MORE than the average “free” account does to start up a business!
You may think that having a business in Second Life should only be for those who are “serious business people”, but that view wholly disregards the many successful businesses that are run by hobbists and/or “free” accounts.
As successful as some of them are, many barely break even as it is, adding the aditional $10 to their expenses could very well turn into the final nail in their coffins.
Then you have those who struggle to start up a business, most have other issues to worry about, without having to pay a premium just to try and bring in even a tiny bit of extra cash.
As for hobbists and those who create for fun or the community … (Begin sarcasm) Sure, make them pay for something that they do without true care for getting anything out of it. Why not? After all, it isn’t like they do anything at all that makes Second Life better for anyone! (End sarcasm)
Christ, I know a few people who would rather pull the plug than be forced to pay for a hobby or for the fun/joy of creating and bettering their community.
I also know at least one family that tried to make a little extra cash with a Second Life business or two … There was no way in hell that they could have continually paid a premium, just to see if they could make a business.
Let’s not forget that you’d also be forcing casual users to pay a premium, just to take a snapshot and store it in Second Life or even frame it for their rented homes. In addition you’d be forcing this same premim on people who build only for themselves, with no intention to sell to anyone.
In closing: If you don’t like “free” accounts and refuse to consider what I have said, well then let me know the name of your business so I can refrain from supporting your narrow minded ass.
Natasha
Sep 28th, 2009
Corsi, about your free bed example: If I had the choice between a free bed, or one of yours or Stroker’s… I would choose the expensive ones, the freebie can be very nice but even the nicest freebies usually are only so-so in quality. Even a ripped freebie version of one of yours, if it were only for the fact that my concience is rather vocal.
It’s simple, quality costs money, in RL as well as in SL. And there will be plenty people who are very willing to pay for quality. I know I am.
PS: tip to all animation content creators: Motion capture plox!
It’s easy you only need 2 Wii controllers for it! (I’d do it myself but I’m lazy)
andrew
Dec 27th, 2009
I really don’t get those people that do not understand it this suit. The matter is that linden lab ITSELF states in it’s TOS that YOU will own the IP rights to things you create in secondlife. It was THEIR choice to give us the chance to OWN OUR OWN COPYRIGHTS to own our work,. So when they allowed us to own it, they CHOOSE THEMSELF to follow the laws related to copyrights.
They did not HAVE TO offer us the possibility to own our own copyrights, but they CHOOSE to do so because it made people enthousiastic and start a business in second life. They used the “You create it, you own” as a tactic to ATTRACT people to second and make money there and earn from those people. It is not more than logical that when you choose to give people rights, they will use those rights some day. It was fairly naive to think this would not happen. Honestly speaking, I do not think this came totally unexpected to linden lab. Big companies like youtube more or less ignore copyrights untill they are big enough, and then slowly after years of doing nothing, start to do something about copyrights if they’re really forced to do so by law. It’s more or less their business stratigy to ride on large amounts of copyright infringements till they’re known enough. Imagine youtube without copyright infringement a year ago or so, before the actual record labels were more or less forced to go on youtube themself? 90% of the interesting stuff on there (like music video’s) were copyright infringing material. They used all those infringing videos to their advantage to grow, become popular and eventually force the record companies to put their videos on yourtube themself, because otherwise some other person would do it anyway illegally. It’s a very sneaky business model, but because of the fact it takes so long to get copyrights and suits sorted, this gives these companies years the the oppertunity to grow and earn lots of money before changing their stratigies.
It’s not like we have to be SO GLAD that linden lab gave us the oppertunity to earn money from second life. Don’t get that wrong. When your’e buying a burger in macdonalds you think You are happy with the burger, but maconalds is MUCH MORE happy with your money than you are with your burger. They never payed US money. No, we actually pay EACHOTHER money when we buy stuff in second life. And yes linden lab makes this possible. But no not forget they earn from whatever we earn in second life. It’s not like I’m the only one earning from my products. They earn from each time I send money from lindens to paypal, they earn alot of money from tier. That server does not actually cost 300$ to maintain. It costs 50 bucks maybe. So in the end, all money we make, is money to them too. So it’s about time they stick by the rules they choose themself.
SL is not ‘just some game’, just like websites are not just made ‘for your fun’. A hamburger at macdonalds is also not just made for you to enjoy. It’s all just business. Business brings progress. Look at communist countries. They are all poor and have poor development. That’s just how humans ‘work’. We’re “made” to work harder if we’re rewarded. Just like dogs. The best way to learn a trick to your dog is to reward him afterwards. Second life would loose alot of it’s relative value if there was no money involved. It’s like designer clothing. In real life designer clothing is not actually better than alot of cheap clothing, but people like the idea of having a good item. To them the money represents the quality. It’s all in their mind of course. I’ve seen tons of noobs in second life asking for a good skin, while they were in fact already wearing a very good (famous) one, that was copied and free for them. They were happier after buyingan expensive poor quality skin. I’ve seen women saying men can get away with freebies, while they were in a store PAYING for other items that were in fact freebies too. The value is partly in their mind. Have you ever had 1 thing and loved it, but once you got more it made you loose your interest? It’s exactly the same with Gold. Gold is not actually worth more as a material. It’s just worth more because there is little of it. THAT is what brings the value of a product. If everything was free in second life, nothing would really have value. People would problably rent larger parcels because at least that would have a certain value. It’s all more complicated than it seems in the first place when it comes to value and satisfaction. People think their life would be great if they had endless amounts of money, but once you get more money, larger amounts of money will mean the same to you as more little amounts meant to you when you were more poor.
Coke Supply
Jan 2nd, 2010
All you people saying that free account holders should not be allowed to upload content are a bunch of little Hitlers. What’s wrong with people making their own clothes and profile pictures?