The Alphaville Herald

131 Responses to “Typepad Threatens Takedown of Herald Justice League Unlimited Exposé”

1. 

   Tuomy Boa
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   Actually to be able to enforce copyright, you need to either be the creator of copyrighted material or a member of registered organization.

   Kalel isnt creator of anything in that wiki and if he tries to register JLU as an organization, DC comics will sue him for everything he owns.

   @GLE, Kalel isnt allowed to save any personal information from people. and storing logs without approval of all people involved is against Linden ToS…so Kalel better AR himself or be ready to be called hypocrite.
2. 

   FrizzleFry
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   @GreenLantern Excelsior

   If you scroll back up he claimed copyright on a chatlog of woodbury kids going on about a jew camp and screencaps of a GPL licenced wiki, account info for pixeleen, etc, I should stick your post on my wiki then dmca you whenever you use that name. GreenLantern Excelsior is © FrizzleFry do not steal.

   Face the big picture, you couldn’t do anything about PN and resorted to playing inquisition with regular sl faggots to justify your existence, you got greedy and ended up playing faction war and it piled up into this shitstorm you’ve spent the last week or two doing damage control for, you don’t care if you went wrong on the whole anti griefer thing and where/when you did, you just want to keep what little you have left and will kick scream and bite for it.

   You went from teleporting to sims we trashed a half hour after we left to walking around sandboxes checking profiles for excuses to AR, or making up underage AR stories for whoever left your group or banned you from their sim, useless then, useless now.

   Lindens knew that and as the wiki said you were slowly being shunned by them, and now you’re dmca’ing chatlog quotes from a game you don’t own and doing mental gymnastics to justify it for damage control.

   Your rodney linden dox article is a perfect example, saying he’s a PN because he didn’t care about griefing, you know he isn’t, but you’ll say he is because you want to emafia him out of the job, I can imagine Kalel plays KotOR just to kill rodney’s npc over and over, doesn’t sound very superhero-y to me.

   My host has an email from kalel claiming that dodging bans in games is illegal and that shoopedlife was an illegal hacker tool used for ddos’ing things, that email was ignored, third times the charm kalel.
3. 

   Kiddoh
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   I wonder how Superman feels about not having any control over this situation.

   The Herald still stands and the articles are still there~
4. 

   Robble Rubble
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   @Kiddoh

   I bet he’s pretty miffed. I wonder if he’ll post in the comments of the slh himself. I don’t think so because he’s a big chicken.

   Bawk Bawk
5. 

   IntLibber
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   Evidently, Typepad’s staff are SL users..When Prok started defaming me, my company, and Woodbury this past fall, I made requests they take down the defamatory and copyrighted information, for them to comply with their own terms of service agreement with me as required by Barnes v Yahoo, only to be treated by their attorney as someone “making threats”.. Typepad has offices in San Francisco. How much do you want to bet there are shared professional and personal relationships between the staff of Typepad/SixApart and Linden Lab?..Legal.shennangans…
6. 

   Senban Babii
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   @GLE

   “You know, I have to call BS on this. If any of us were ever ejected and banned from someone’s parcel, that fact would be publicized instantly to the group, and none of us would ever return to that land. For that reason, your story about multiple ejections is bogus. In other words, names and locations or it didn’t happen.”

   Ahh, I wondered when someone would come up with the old “pictures or it didn’t happen” routine. I’ve spent far too many years on discussion boards, forums and the like to not expect it.

   Here are the facts. While many consider the Herald a tabloid rag (and on occasion it is and deliberately so and we all love the ranting that ensues, be honest now), I’m not the kind of person who will simply get handed a story and write it up without checking facts. I’m not like that in Second Life, I’m not like that in Meat Life, I’m not like that anywhere. Ask my friend who endlessly sends me news stories for critical analysis and the debates we subsequently have over validity of sources. Ask the people who’ve brought stories to my attention who’ve subsequently found their every word being pulled apart and asked to provide proof to back up their claims and evidence. Someone passed me an image recently in relation to this JLU matter and the first thing I did was check out the facts behind it rather than take it on face value. I’ve had people come to me making claims that they had abuse reported members of certain groups for griefing and yet couldn’t supply me with the AR email sent from LL to confirm it.

   If someone gives me something, I check its provenance. If it doesn’t stand up, I don’t discount it but I also don’t use it. You might be surprised at the information that I could have included in the stories I passed to Pix (as yet unpublished) but didn’t because doing so would have meant I’d used unchecked information that would have compromised the trust people place in the integrity of a reporter, even one who works for the Herald. I can’t check every fact down to the bare bones however, I can only make every reasonable effort to ensure validity and impartiality.

   I also know that a second layer lies behind me, that of Pix herself. I know for a fact that she’s very careful about what gets published so that we don’t end up in trouble. And I also know that we know things that the public doesn’t yet know about this copyright issue. But that’s a different matter.

   My point is this. I don’t say anything that I can’t back up if necessary. The person I spoke to in this instance is one of SL’s oldest residents and wasn’t even aware of this current JLU comicbook crossover event between The Astonishing RL and The Uncanny SL. I was talking about the JLU and he was the one who openly began telling me about the problems he’d had over time with JLU members turning up on his land and throwing their weight around. And yes, I could back this up with chatlogs etc etc. He also went on to point out that the JLU were a bigger problem than any of the groups normally labelled as griefers. I’ve no intention of publishing said chatlogs or naming names because a private conversation is a private conversation and unless I’m wearing my “Herald Reporter” group tag when I’m talking to someone, I’m not on duty so to speak. But so far I’ve not spoken to a single landowner who has had a good thing to say about the JLU. Not. One. If I were writing academically, you can be damn sure that every single point would be referenced. The Herald precludes such a writing style but that doesn’t mean I don’t approach anything I say without academic rigour behind the scenes.

   Now let me give an example of my critical analysis to prove my point. Earlier, someone warned us that the JLU were trying to use the IP addresses of everyone who had pinged their server from the links in the released wiki files. No proof was provided to back up this claim, no provenance. But doesn’t it sound like the kind of thing we’d all like to believe? So until it’s proved otherwise, it’s filed away under “possibly scaremongering propaganda”. That’s no disrespect to the person who posted it I assure you. I’m simply illustrating that while my personal feelings are very much against the JLU, I am also equally fair when questioning the evidence of both sides. A certain member of a certain so-called griefer group who posts here can verify that I question the materials that have been passed to me. I’m sure it’s frustrating for him at times but I have no intention of being led by either side unthinkingly.

   I’ll give you another example. When LittleLostLinden recently began his crusade against camping and bots, while his evidence occasionally checked out (and trust me, Pix and I dug round the grid to verify his claims), his anonymity and subsequent behaviour led me to suspect an agenda was in fact playing out. I had no intention of being part of that agenda and so I filed the story away under “pending”. Again, that’s no disrespect to LLL but I have no intention of being led blindly simply because of personal belief clouding judgement and critical thinking.

   Now, personal opinion time.

   GLE, you honestly do seem like you’re half sensible at times. Isn’t it about time you realised that you’ve allied yourself with some of the grid’s sleaziest characters?

   JLU members, isn’t it about time you questioned whether this group of yours has lost the plot and crossed the line from hero to villain? Sometimes your friends cross the line so badly that no matter how much we may care for them, we can no longer stand with them but must stand against them. I suggest you think about that, a lot. And that goes for you too GLE.

   btw, apologies for the tl;dr post 8D
7. 

   Tuomy Boa
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   private conversations between few people, logged without their approval and used publicly = invasion of privacy.
8. 

   Danziel Lane
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   Well, I look at this from Europe, and I wonder, why the discussion goes about DMCA and copyright (OK, hehe, cause Ms. Pixeleen got that mail) … here in Europe we would go to the start of it all, which would be the collection of private data and storing them on a database
   - without the consent of the person the data is collected of
   - without even telling them, that data of them is stored.

   Here we would not talk to DMCA lawyers, but ask authorities to investigate about the JLU people about misuse of personal data.

   Second: here you can claim copyright only if your work provides a certain level of crativity, which makes it a new one. You cannot simply copy chat into a database, add a title and claim: I created something completely new! Now I am copyright owner of that chat!

   Mixed together: If Kalel says in chat: “Danziel is a liar and a griefer and for his comment on the Herald site we will add him to our new database.” … Well, first there’s a lie or two in it, second, it’s not a text on a high creative level and third, if he really stores that into his database, he stored private data of me, without my consent and without telling me, and for that I would be able to report him to authorities (or ask a lawyer to do that for me).

   So, seen from here, from the distance, the first crime was to collect private data, the second was to use copyrighted (marked by the (c) in their comics) logos, as GLE confessed some comments ago, without the written consent of DC or Warner and then … long after these crimes they try to shoot back with DMCA claims against the Herald and so many others, without thinking, that the knowledge of their misbehaviour has spread wide enough.
   If you really were superheroes, you would show some backbone and have the courage to confess: ok, the JLU was wrong collecting private data, please accept our apologies.

   I really dislike superheroes that prove their backbones are made of jelly.
9. 

   Jessica Holyoke
   

   Jan 31st, 2010
   

   Lawyer pricing varies greatly. Three thousand a day equates to $300 per hour with ten hours a day. There are many lawyers out there who would be willing to work with you with payments and fees on a variety of cases.
10. 

    Gaara Sandalwood
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    GLE: “I don’t understand the JLU copyright on the Heinrich and Gaara “Jewtown” chat log, but I haven’t studied this stuff so I don’t know all the nuances”

    Er…..what’s so hard to understand? They had an alt in WU relaying group chat information, that’s all there is to know on the subject of that convo. As for it being copyrighted, I honestly can not see why or how it is/could ever be considered such. I do remember that(poorly)undercover JLU guy called Thanks JLU Wiki who posted that convo in a previous article, but again, that doesn’t explain rationally how anyone violated a copyright claim.

    Anyway, since shit seems to still be up, at least it’s a clear indication that the JLU are losing ground on these matters.
11. 

    Tux Winkler
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    I own the server the ‘leaked’ JLU wiki is on: http://jlu.sl4.me (I rent little bits of space out). Although as of yet I have had no threat to remove, there has been some really lame attempts to gain entry to the FTP. For the record, I will not be removing the wiki, if they want it removed they should contact the uploader!

    I honestly see the whole situation highly comical (no pun intended). There is no way public chat can be copyrighted. Nor can the images included (as they are already ripped from the comics).

    The fact that this little witch hunt wiki exists, brings proof that the JLU are far worse than the griefers the fight. Agreed a few particles are annoying, but a secret log containing RL info. LL should hardware ban them on the spot.

    I for one will be adding them to every ban list I have access too. They can go role play in someone elses back yard!

    As a final not, wouldn’t it be funny if someone added a link to the wiki in world, like the JLU have, so people could go and check out if they are listed – XD

    Too Funny!
12. 

    masa
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    @We
    “I don’t think any DMCAs HAVE been submitted here. I think Kalel or whoever is sending these e-mails just goes to the site and says ‘I own copyright take it down’”

    Going by the email exchange with another administrator that was posted before, this is probably true, but Six Apart is a “real company” that has to answer to their customers and knows how to correctly handle infringement notifications. They will not act without a request that meets the requirements of the DMCA (§512(c)(3)) and will help you provide a compliant request if you screw it up (as required by law; same section). Since the posts are still up, we can assume the Herald responded, which means the only recourse left for Kalel is in court – which he cannot pursue until the copyright is registered (§411, or copyright.gov faq “Do I have to register with your office to be protected?”).

    Six Apart’s actions are dictated entirely by law and what they do or do not do has nothing to do with their personal opinions or the legal standing of the situation.

    The only thing that has been accomplished is that Six Apart is now safe from any liability, and Kalel’s secret identity has signed an official legal document stating, under penalty of perjury, that he owns the copyright on all of the mentioned material.
13. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    Okay, here’s a thought.

    The JLU are self-appointed guardians of the residents blah blah, right?

    Well what if the residents turned round and said “we don’t want you, we didn’t ask for you, go away”.

    Would the JLU hang up their capes? Or would they decline to leave, informing us that the spying and the intrusion are for our own comfort and safety and that it was for our own good.

    Can someone set up a poll somewhere where people can put these issues to the vote? Something unambiguous so that we can get a reasonable guide as to what people really think of the JLU and their activities. And preferably, a poll that could not be gamed to mess with the results one way or another. Something transparent that will show the JLU how people actually feel. Anyone able to sort something out?
14. 

    marilyn murphy
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    @senban: omigod i love your outfit. its for sale i hope. and i wanna join your group. can i be speedy alka-seltzer?
15. 

    None
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    I’m starting to believe it would be better for both the Herald AND the JLU to go away for good.
16. 

    Kiddoh
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    @None: Haha, why the Herald?
17. 

    deadlycodec
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    @Tux Winkler

    iptables -A INPUT -s [IP] -j DROP

    I get people with Chinese (and sometimes Texan) IPs trying to crax my FTP “administrator” (on *nix lol) account too. Sometimes I don’t even ban them, but I recently added some new fw policies that automatically ban ips for a few hours when they match these brute force patterns. I think it’s funny. Most of these people couldn’t hack out of a paper bag with scissors.
18. 

    nebula/pinkbunni
    

    Jan 31st, 2010
    

    seeing all this crap makes me so glad i no longer play second life any more. who wants to come join me in playing farmville one face book or maple story.
19. 

    GreenLantern Excelsior
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @ Robble

    “Your reply to Senban is complete bullshit because even though members of your group have been repeatedly ejected and banned from Woodbury they just alt up and come back”

    I believe Kara Timtam and Kalel were banned from Woodburyland and Longcat at one time, but those sims no longer exist. They never tried to go there, so their inclusion on the ban list was amusing. I was ejected once from Longcat, but that wasn’t by the owner, and it only happened after the owner had left the area. There are a couple of JLU members who have been to the new Soviet Woodbury sim several times. We’re not banned from there and have never been ejected to my knowledge. I would still like to know the name and location of Senban’s mysterious parcel owner.

    I’ve never heard of any sim where a “landowner got so fed up of the JLU turning up on his land all the time that he had to keep ejecting and banning them,” which is why I’m still calling BS on Senban’s statement. I would love to talk with this alleged landowner to see why he dislikes JLU.

    @ deadly

    “The poor-man’s copyright is a myth dude.”

    Here’s what the Wikipedia article on copyright says:

    “In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.”

    That’s the myth I was talking about.

    @ We

    “I don’t think any DMCAs HAVE been submitted here. I think Kalel or whoever is sending these e-mails just goes to the site and says “I own copyright take it down”…”

    I have not seen any of the DMCA requests, but I very much doubt they are some kind of generic email message. When TypePad sends an email that says “Here is the list of content which needs to be removed:” and then follows with a very specific list of links and posts, I get the impression that they didn’t sit down and write that list on their own. They’re forwarding the information that was included in the DMCA request.

    “Well, I kinda doubt that any person from Warner Bros operating a Second Life sim (especially for Gossip Girl) is in any position to say whether copyright usage on a completely different section of their corporate umbrella is okay or not.”

    I agree with you, but I’m thinking that anyone working for Warner Brothers would have a pretty good feel for how their company treats fan-created content. If there was a potential problem, the employee might have responded with a warning that Warner might not like JLU using DC characters in SL. Instead, she thought it was kind of cool.

    “So it seems to me, for your group to contact DC and say “We’re using your copyright” and they say “Okay”, that means they just lost control of the copyright to your group…”

    That would make sense for a large group of people selling merchandise and comic books and TV shows, etc. We’re a small group of fans who clothe our virtual avatars in superhero uniforms. I believe that the criteria DC and Warner are going to look at is “Do these folks compete with us in any way that affects our profits?” If the answer is no, it’s not worth their time and money to come after us. As I said before, I believe our SL presence will stimulate some comic book sales and get some people interested in watching the upcoming live-action Green Lantern movie. And we don’t ask them for any money to pay for the free advertising we provide!

    “I wonder, more over, why use copyrighted existing heroes at all? Why not create your own? I can’t imagine you’ll get any more or less respect showing up as your own creation of a superhero in a sim as you would showing up as someone else’s creation, and from a legal stand point you’d be considerably more sound.”

    Right again. The reason JLU is still JLU is that it started with that name in 2006, and up to now there has been no reason to change. From my point of view, the Green Lantern character is instantly recognizable to many people (although they’re confused about why I’m not “the black guy,” since the only GL many of them know is John Stewart from the JLU animated series). They know this character is a good guy, so they approach me to report griefer problems or ask for help about Second Life or just to chat about comic books. I enjoy helping people, and the Lantern uniform makes it easier. If DC or Warner told me to cease and desist using the Green Lantern chest symbol and power ring, then I might want to have an alternate group ready to join and a different uniform ready to wear. So maybe some day I’ll get the chance to wear that white uniform with the red cape.

    In the JLU group meeting this morning we discussed these Herald articles. I don’t think anyone will object to my reposting some of the major points as long as no names are mentioned. More than one member has recommended that we should walk away and not post here, and the whole thing would go away on its own. And maybe it would die out after a while, but the articles keep coming, because there was a lot of information in that wiki. Every time a new article appears, it’s another chance for people to try to trample our reputation. If we don’t respond, our silence can be taken as an indication of guilt or weakness. So that’s why I’m here, not because I was ordered to stand here and be a target, but because I believe in the group and its goals, and most of all its people, and I want to make sure that our side of the story is heard too. I’m sure anyone else here would do the same if their group was the target.
20. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @Marilyn Murphy

    “omigod i love your outfit. its for sale i hope. and i wanna join your group. can i be speedy alka-seltzer?”

    It’s for sale, although I can’t take credit for its creation I’m afraid. I can’t actually recall off the top of my head the name of the store but I’ll happily find the lm for you later if you like? I actually almost wore it for my Post 6 article 8P

    (Oh, it’s actually on Xstreet I just noticed https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1259375)

    And you can totally join my group! At this rate we’ll need some more cardboard boxes to build a bigger fort in the garden 8D We’ll need a few supervillains to fight though. Does anyone want to take on the role of Doctor Cocktapus? O.o

    /me makes a cape out of a towel and runs round the grid shouting “WHEE! I HAS AN SUPERHERO!”
21. 

    Tux Winkler
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @deadlycodec

    Oh yeah, iptables, will look (not that these guys will get in). At first I though they used a dic attack, but the attempts was only every 3-6 seconds (like they was writing down each try – XD).

    Still, wouldn’t it be funny, if everyone listed in the brainiac wiki (brainiac was a bad guy btw – seems fitting – XD) filed an abuse report against the JLU members for using the chat logs, collecting personal information, defaming groups and individuals . . . the list is endless really. I wonder would these over excited role players claim Brainiac or Lex Luthor used a mighty mind control device, which only affects superheros, to force them to do such evil!

    I am sorry, I am dying with laughter!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fWUUXeKM
22. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @GLE

    “I would still like to know the name and location of Senban’s mysterious parcel owner.”

    I’m sure you would but I have no intention of revealing such information (see my earlier explanation). I will however say this. The person in question is a VERY longstanding resident of SL and has absolutely no connections to WU or w-hat or anything of that nature if that’s what you’re implying? Like I say though, I can back up everything I say with chatlogs and emails and screenshots if I was ever forced into a position where it became necessary.

    But as a taster, try these two comments from people who witnessed JLU members in action. Note that I’ve deliberately withheld names and locations to avoid retaliation from the JLU on these residents.

    “and he seemed like a sort of idiot to me, showing up in his hero outfit, but with no power to do anything”

    “they sounded like a bunch of ridiculous tools”

    (Note that neither of those quotes were from people traditionally considered as enemies of the JLU. They were from ordinary men and women on the grid who witnessed JLU activities.)

    Superheroes can act in certain ways in comic books because they are just comic books and a certain suspension of reality is called for; a suspension that appeals to those who lack power in their lives. But consider that film The Incredibles, where superheroes are called upon to account for their actions. You’re not above morality, you’re not outside the law. No one elected you, no one appointed you, no one oversees you, no one asked for you. You’ve set yourselves up as alleged guardians and proven conclusively that the cure is worse than the disease.

    If you were genuinely protecting people from actual danger, then it might be worth something. But you’re roleplaying being superheroes in virtual reality and allowing that roleplay to bleed from the screen into your lives and creating problems. If you want to protect people then do so. But stop fooling yourselves that you’re actual heroes because you absolutely are not.

    “Every time a new article appears, it’s another chance for people to try to trample our reputation.”

    No. Every time another article appears, it provides yet more proof that you are delusional about your self-appointed roles as heroes of the grid. You’re not heroes. You’re the equivalent of the mad old cat lady who peers from behind her curtains, making notes on the activities of her neighbours and calling the police every time she finds something objectionable.
23. 

    deadlycodec
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @GLE

    “Here’s what the Wikipedia article on copyright says:

    “In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.”

    That’s the myth I was talking about.”

    You going to believe Wikipedia over a copyright lawyer? Told you to consult a real attorney and see for yourself. Surely you know some since you’re a “cop”. Wikipedia has a lot of great information, but anyone can edit it and write half-truths based on rumor and conjecture, which is why in the media people aren’t generally allowed to cite Wikipedia as a source. Hell, they can’t do it when writing papers for school either.

    If you can’t prove copyright ownership in a court of law because the work hasn’t been registered with the copyright office, then do you have copyright at all? So the law can even say that you automatically have copyright when you create your work, but if the only way to prove it is to have it registered, then what the fuck does that mean? It means you’re an idiot who is shit out of luck.

    >That’s the myth I was talking about.

    So smug, and yet so much to learn. You’d think a guy with a “law enforcement background” would know at least some of this stuff.
24. 

    Marx Dudek
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    One word comes to mind.

    “SLientoLOLOLogy.” XD
25. 

    Jessica Holyoke
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    Fun facts: DC Comics characters are generally Copyright protected and Trademarked. This is because the character is the subject, the actual part, of the stories and pictures, AND they identify the publishing company.

    You can lose trademark rights by not enforcing. The same is not true for copyrights. You can lose the ability to sue one person for copyright infringement if you wait too long, but you don’t lose the copyright and can sue the next infringer. However, if you wait too long to sue someone for using your trademark, then the mark doesn’t identify the goods or service anymore and then you have lost the trademark to everyone.

    And yes the Berne Convention, and the 1988 Berne Convention Implementation Act allows for infringement suits without registration, however, you do not gain access to statutory damages and attorneys’ fees, only lost sales, profits or lost licensing fees. No RIAA type judgments are to be found here.
26. 

    Gaara Sandalwood
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    “In the JLU group meeting this morning we discussed these Herald articles. I don’t think anyone will object to my reposting some of the major points as long as no names are mentioned. More than one member has recommended that we should walk away and not post here, and the whole thing would go away on its own. And maybe it would die out after a while, but the articles keep coming, because there was a lot of information in that wiki. Every time a new article appears, it’s another chance for people to try to trample our reputation. If we don’t respond, our silence can be taken as an indication of guilt or weakness. So that’s why I’m here, not because I was ordered to stand here and be a target, but because I believe in the group and its goals, and most of all its people, and I want to make sure that our side of the story is heard too. I’m sure anyone else here would do the same if their group was the target.”

    Yesterday morning, I got on my computer, and found a system on it that was not there the prvious night, and spent a few hours getting rid of it. After that annoyance, I decided to get on SL and ask a random JLU member why they feel they could copyright what they claim to have such on.

    I IMed Kara Timtam and asked her various questions. The most she gave me in response was a statemennt that me being labeled as a raider was a mistake made by one of their own(proof they act on instinct without actually looking into shit), and a statement that she was told to have most of my questions answered by a lawyer(lol, seriously?)before telling me she would then mute me.

    They’re basically all clammed up now, trying to sort shit out and stating that they are right, without giving actual logical explanations in some areas of this event.
27. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    Disregarding the nature of the website in question, can anyone shed any light on this statement and any potential truth to it?

    http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Justice_League_Unlimited

    “Kara Timtam
    //snip//
    In Second Life, it has been confirmed that she is a Linden in addition to JLU, probably by threatening to shit in Phillip Linden’s IRL pool.”
28. 

    Kiddoh
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    “I believe Kara Timtam and Kalel were banned from Woodburyland and Longcat at one time, but those sims no longer exist. They never tried to go there, so their inclusion on the ban list was amusing. I was ejected once from Longcat, but that wasn’t by the owner, and it only happened after the owner had left the area. There are a couple of JLU members who have been to the new Soviet Woodbury sim several times. We’re not banned from there and have never been ejected to my knowledge.”

    That’s because they had their JLU groups hidden in their profiles, so they were either fraternizing with the enemy or spying (my money is on them spying).

    “And we don’t ask them for any money to pay for the free advertising we provide!”

    That’s because your free advertising is equivalent to a rapist advertising sex. Do you think anyone would want to buy anything from DC when a bunch of super-hero role-players harass them repeatedly?

    I’ll tell you, I wanted to play Mortal Kombat vs. DC, but the idea of doing fatalities on Superman made me feel lower than the guy that said “It would only take four shots, I wouldn’t even empty the clip.” Looks like DC lost a sale because of you guys. :3
29. 

    Tuomy Boa
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @GLE

    In most countries copyright is owned by the creator, not by the host.

    Also, chatlogs taken without Approval cant be copyrighted, just as you’re not allowed to publicize private RL conversations without the participants approval.
30. 

    Robble Rubble
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @GLE

    I added superman to the banlist myself then saw him flying around, sperging about on his “Pat” alt inspecting things.

    I’m not dumb, when I see someone in a two year old account that is still dressed as a newbie zipping through the dorms inspecting things I can safely assume it’s a spy.
31. 

    We
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @GreenLantern Excelsior

    “I have not seen any of the DMCA requests, but I very much doubt they are some kind of generic email message. When TypePad sends an email that says “Here is the list of content which needs to be removed:” and then follows with a very specific list of links and posts, I get the impression that they didn’t sit down and write that list on their own. They’re forwarding the information that was included in the DMCA request.”

    That’s a good point, though it’s possible that it was just an e-mail sent saying “I own THIS specific stuff” and lists everything in the article they think is theirs, I don’t know that much about DMCAs, but it seems like you wouldn’t be able to file one without some kind of legal proof of ownership. Working from the (I would say) established point that neither Kalel or JLU owns the Gaara chatlog, they could never legally file a DMCA over it. This means that either Kalel (or whoever is filing these) illegally filed a DMCA over it, or he simply lied and told TypePad he owned it, when he does not.

    “I agree with you, but I’m thinking that anyone working for Warner Brothers would have a pretty good feel for how their company treats fan-created content. If there was a potential problem, the employee might have responded with a warning that Warner might not like JLU using DC characters in SL. Instead, she thought it was kind of cool.”

    I would disagree to your statement that they would have a good feel for treating fan-created content. I don’t know the full situation, but it’s possible in fact that the person didn’t even work for Warner Brothers at all. When Corporations were big into Second Life, they never built anything on their own, and they rarely took direct managing of their sims (with the exception of IBM and a few others), they hired building companies like Rivers Run Red, Electric Sheep, Aimee Weber Studios, etc. to build the sim and often times to manage it afterwards. For example, The L Word sims owned by Showtime were managed by Electric Sheep, not Showtime.

    However, even if the person was an employee of Warner Brothers, any person getting stuck in a job of managing a sim in Second Life is likely to be pretty low on the corporate totem pole (probably even an intern), and unless they’re a CEO or part of the legal section, they’re in no position to make any statement regarding the companies treatment of copyrighted property in one of their branches.

    “That would make sense for a large group of people selling merchandise and comic books and TV shows, etc. We’re a small group of fans who clothe our virtual avatars in superhero uniforms. I believe that the criteria DC and Warner are going to look at is “Do these folks compete with us in any way that affects our profits?” If the answer is no, it’s not worth their time and money to come after us.

    As I said, Fan Art, Fan Fiction, etc. is a violation of Copyright, and HAS been prosecuted against by companies even though they made no profit off of it. Being a small group that violates the copyright just means you’re below their notice, this is often something they exploit purposefully as they don’t want to have to pursue every fan art and fan fiction that comes out, because of a.) the legal costs and b.) fan art can be free publicity (though not always good publicity). Just because you’re below their notice or not worth going after doesn’t mean they’re saying it’s okay or you’re not violating copyright. Even Kalel admits in one of these logs that the JLU group and usage is a copyright lawsuit waiting to happen:

    “[18:07] Kalel Venkman: Anyway, we looked at Legion of Heroes – too close to Legion of Superheroes – Second League, which limits us if we want to move outside SL at any point in the future – Justice Legion Unlimited – which is a lawsuit waiting to happen -”

    “As I said before, I believe our SL presence will stimulate some comic book sales and get some people interested in watching the upcoming live-action Green Lantern movie. And we don’t ask them for any money to pay for the free advertising we provide!”

    I would disagree personally, as I think the JLU and possibly even the GLC (though they are far less noisy than the JLU it seems), are giving a negative view to the characters and the properties. Obviously this is just my opinion as yours is that it’s positively reinforcing the characters. But we have “Superman” threatening to sue someone out of home and job, we have the JLU collecting information including real life information and distributing it in a secret wiki to anyone they think is a threat (apparently breaking the Second Life ToS in doing so), and we have a group of people in a game who decided to give themselves authority they don’t have to target a nuisance which is little more than a minor annoyance. My connection of this to the characters is not giving me a positive outlook on DC’s property I would say.

    Your group is little more than any other SL Police group who grants themselves power and thinks they know what’s best for others, the wiki is full of references of how few sims have “opted-out” of your service which prove that people want you around, but how many people have opted-in? Did you go to each sim and ask the sim owner “Can we police your sim even though we have no actual power to do so?” I don’t imagine so, and I bet were you to do so, you would have quite a bit more to add to the list of sims that have opted-out.

    Griefing is not so large of a threat as you make it, and as I said before, your group tends to make it worse. A griefer is someone who is looking to get an amusing reaction out of someone: the best way to fight them is to ignore them, they get bored and go away. The worst way to fight them on the other hand, is to dress up in Super hero outfits, take them extremely seriously, and follow them around filing abuse reports and collecting secret information. All it does is give them an extremely amusing target to grief. Hell, I’m not a griefer and even I think the JLU would be amusing to grief.

    “Right again. The reason JLU is still JLU is that it started with that name in 2006, and up to now there has been no reason to change.”

    And yet I notice from the wiki and from Second Life that there is a populated and established secondary JLU group called “League of Heroes”, that has the same purpose of JLU, possibly more members, and is less of a copyright timebomb. Why not abandon the JLU group and rebrand everything based off that? Here’s a reason to change, as Kalel said: it’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. Or is the JLU okay with continually and knowingly violating DC’s copyright as long as no one slaps their wrist?

    “From my point of view, the Green Lantern character is instantly recognizable to many people (although they’re confused about why I’m not “the black guy,” since the only GL many of them know is John Stewart from the JLU animated series). They know this character is a good guy, so they approach me to report griefer problems or ask for help about Second Life or just to chat about comic books. I enjoy helping people, and the Lantern uniform makes it easier. If DC or Warner told me to cease and desist using the Green Lantern chest symbol and power ring, then I might want to have an alternate group ready to join and a different uniform ready to wear. So maybe some day I’ll get the chance to wear that white uniform with the red cape. ”

    I find it kind of odd that people would approach someone dressed as a super hero with griefer problems, does that mean if I wore a superhero outfit, people would be coming up to me with griefer problems instead of to the proper people like Linden Lab or the sim’s admin? Would I not be able to wear a costume like that without being automatically assumed to be a part of the JLU or GLC? If I wore a super villain costume would they assume I’m a griefer? Why do you use someone else’s hard-work and creativity, and take it for yourself to make your identity? Perhaps you can stop having people look at you and recognize someone ELSE, and start having people look at you and recognize YOU.

    “In the JLU group meeting this morning we discussed these Herald articles. I don’t think anyone will object to my reposting some of the major points as long as no names are mentioned.”

    I would certainly like to re-suggest that you make it a point that JLU closes down the JLU-wiki as we know it and instead opens it up again as a public resource wiki for anti-griefer material. You could have information like: How best to set your land’s options to stop griefing, how to set your objects to group and turn on auto-return on the lot, how to file a proper abuse report, the best way to halt a griefer in their tracks (ignore them), how to manage mute button lists, turn off particles with a keystroke (CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+=), maintain a small amount of information on active griefing groups and weapons and how best to deal with them, etc. etc. etc. Stuff that could actually make it harder to grief sims and actually help new player land owners deal with griefing attacks.

    “More than one member has recommended that we should walk away and not post here, and the whole thing would go away on its own. And maybe it would die out after a while, but the articles keep coming, because there was a lot of information in that wiki. Every time a new article appears, it’s another chance for people to try to trample our reputation. If we don’t respond, our silence can be taken as an indication of guilt or weakness. So that’s why I’m here, not because I was ordered to stand here and be a target, but because I believe in the group and its goals, and most of all its people, and I want to make sure that our side of the story is heard too. I’m sure anyone else here would do the same if their group was the target.”

    I agree, and I’m glad you’re here so we can hear the other side of the story. More JLU members should come and defend this if they think it’s worth defending. I dislike that the JLU’s modus operandi seems to be entirely keeping things in secret, the JLU wiki is locked and closed, and the Justice League sim (last I saw) was closed off, though that I can understand because otherwise you’d be griefed daily. I think the JLU needs more transparency in their day to day operation, especially in the wiki, the secretiveness of it simply makes people behave with less-liability for their actions and results in embarrassing things like this wiki leak.

    Honestly, I think what’s trampling JLU’s reputation currently is not the articles and comments, it’s the wiki itself: full of paranoid information on griefers (and people you accuse of being griefers) to the point of getting real life information on people, some of which not even whom are not even griefers, and even more so it’s Kalel’s reaction to the wiki leak: these take-downs, threat of lawsuits, claiming of copyright on material the JLU doesn’t own, and the overall hypocrisy of making such a big deal about copyrights while knowing violating the copyrights and privacy of others.

    If actions speak louder than words, than the JLU’s actions are saying that they’re okay with copyright violation as long as they’re doing the violating and don’t get caught, that they’ll collect information on you – even real life information if they decide to label you a griefer (or maybe even if they don’t), that they’ll lie if it gets them what they want, and that Kalel is okay with literally ruining someone’s life over this.

    Perhaps the JLU’s reputation has already been trampled upon by the JLU. Perhaps now is the time for a remake: Drop the JLU group and switch to the League of Heroes, drop the old costumes and copyrighted material and make your own, take down the secret wiki full of paranoid information and put up a new public one with helpful information for land owners and normal people alike. Stop trying to take the power into your own hands, and start trying to give it to the people you claim to want to help.
32. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    No, it says the Herald has till then to do it.

    And, frankly, I have no idea what Venkman’s resources are. But if you think he’s as crazy as you say he is, it’s quite the gamble. Not one I’d want to take. Like I said, I don’t care what they do as long as they stay off my sim. But after that, who knows?
33. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    And “We” actually brings up a good point. If the Herald decides to counter-file, the first thing that happens is they have to reveal complete personal contact information so they can be sued. And then that information goes .. where? In Kalel’s wiki, to be stolen again? I know he doesn’t have my stuff. I read the wiki and looked for it, and he hasn’t got it. But I wouldn’t want it in there. People steal the thing.

    The rest of it is garbage, We. You really need to do a little reading on the basics before you open your mouth.
34. 

    GreenLantern Excelsior
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    @ Tuomy Boa

    “@GLE, Kalel isnt allowed to save any personal information from people. and storing logs without approval of all people involved is against Linden ToS…”

    This only applies within Second Life or the Second Life Forums.

    @ FrizzleFry

    “You went from teleporting to sims we trashed a half hour after we left to walking around sandboxes checking profiles for excuses to AR…”

    This is untrue, as I’m sure you know.

    @ IntLibber

    “How much do you want to bet there are shared professional and personal relationships between the staff of Typepad/SixApart and Linden Lab?”

    At this point, nothing would surprise me about this affair.

    @ Senban

    “…I’m not the kind of person who will simply get handed a story and write it up without checking facts.”

    That’s what I try to do too, and what I’m trying to do here. I’ve been burned too many times by jumping to conclusions.

    “And I also know that we know things that the public doesn’t yet know about this copyright issue.”

    Same here. Several of us have information that would help certain people and hurt certain others, but because we were asked not to reveal it, you can be sure it will never see print.

    “I was talking about the JLU and he was the one who openly began telling me about the problems he’d had over time with JLU members turning up on his land and throwing their weight around.”

    This is different from the original account of JLU members being repeatedly ejected and banned.

    “I’ve no intention of publishing said chatlogs or naming names because a private conversation is a private conversation and unless I’m wearing my “Herald Reporter” group tag when I’m talking to someone, I’m not on duty so to speak.”

    If you won’t back up an allegation with facts, then you shouldn’t post it in the first place. I’m not calling you a liar, but I won’t believe your account until I can talk to the source and verify the story. This is in line with the way you operate, or so you say: “Someone passed me an image recently in relation to this JLU matter and the first thing I did was check out the facts behind it rather than take it on face value.” I can’t accept your post at face value without checking out the facts behind it.

    “But so far I’ve not spoken to a single landowner who has had a good thing to say about the JLU. Not. One.”

    This very carefully-worded statement could mean any of several things:
    1) I have spoken to two or more landowners who had good things to say about JLU.
    2) Landowners have told me good things about JLU but I wasn’t using voice chat at the time.
    3) I have sought out landowners who dislike JLU while avoiding those who might have a positive opinion.
    4) After I heard the bad story about JLU I didn’t speak to any other landowners about them.
    5) If I ever heard a landowner say good things about JLU, I didn’t speak to him.
    6) I spoke to six landowners about JLU. One guy fed me a story about ejecting and banning and the others had never heard of JLU.
    I may have been born at night, but it wasn’t LAST night. I’m a veteran of many discussion boards too, so I know how words can be made to fit together very carefully to create an illusion. If you would state how many landowners you’ve interviewed, and say that all of them know and dislike JLU, then the statement will be easier to accept. If anyone is interested, I can provide a list of landowners and residents who are very happy with the response that they’ve received from JLU. In fact, I heard that some folks went to the Texas State Capitol sim recently to try to get one of the owners to stop working with JLU, and he told them to go pound sand, or words to that effect. I wonder if you or Pixeleen would be willing to go talk with some of these pro-JLU landowners and write an article favorable to JLU, to balance out some of the recent negative coverage.

    “GLE, you honestly do seem like you’re half sensible at times.”

    Thank you.

    “Isn’t it about time you realised that you’ve allied yourself with some of the grid’s sleaziest characters?”

    To characterize JLU members as “sleazy,” you would have to believe the anti-JLU baseless allegations and outright lies that have been written in the Herald recently. You should require the same evidence to form a personal opinion as you require to write an article for the Herald.

    @ Gaara Sandalwood

    “Er…..what’s so hard to understand? They had an alt in WU relaying group chat information, that’s all there is to know on the subject of that convo.”

    I didn’t know that. I was thinking it came from an IRC channel. So it could have been an alt in the Woodbury group, or maybe one of the Woodbury members relaying group chat information. I understand.

    @ Tux Winkler

    “Agreed a few particles are annoying, but a secret log containing RL info. LL should hardware ban them on the spot.”

    The Second Life Terms of Service and Community Standards do not apply outside Second Life or the Second Life forums. Linden Lab will not be doing any hardware bans because someone posted chat logs on an Internet wiki page.

    @ Senban

    “The person in question is a VERY longstanding resident of SL and has absolutely no connections to WU or w-hat or anything of that nature if that’s what you’re implying?”

    I would have guessed it was Intlibber, since he had a few JLU names on his ban lists for whatever reason, but he didn’t fit your earlier description of someone who didn’t know the wiki had been stolen.

    “(Note that neither of those quotes were from people traditionally considered as enemies of the JLU. They were from ordinary men and women on the grid who witnessed JLU activities.)”

    I’ve heard comments like that before, and not necessarily from “traditional enemies.” I always try to talk to the person to find out why they feel that way about JLU. Many times it will be due to a misunderstanding of our purpose. But those who make negative comments are a very small minority in SL, from my experience. The majority of residents who comment at all either compliment the avatar’s uniform, thank us for helping them, or want to know how they can join us.

    “If you were genuinely protecting people from actual danger, then it might be worth something. But you’re roleplaying being superheroes in virtual reality and allowing that roleplay to bleed from the screen into your lives and creating problems.”

    No matter how much Pixeleen likes to say we are “spandex tights fetish and role play paramilitary organization” (and I’m not sure why “fetish” was used there), JLU is not a role play group. JLU in its anti-griefer mode is nothing more than a Neighborhood Watch in Second Life. We dress in superhero uniforms so we will stand out from the background of emo goths, Naruto and Dragonball characters, and furries. But you will not see me arriving on the scene of a griefer attack shouting “Have no fear, citizens! Green Lantern will save you! Unhand that lolcube, vile miscreant!” I arrive quietly on the scene, IM the object owner to be sure the attack isn’t accidental, write the AR if necessary, then stay around until things are cleaned up to reassure any residents who may have been disturbed by the attack. This misconception you have about role playing is a symptom of a deeper, seemingly deliberate misunderstanding about JLU that I would not expect to see manifested in someone who considers herself to be a journalist.

    @ We

    “Your group is little more than any other SL Police group who grants themselves power and thinks they know what’s best for others…”

    The SL Police groups have bad reputations because their members sometimes try to order residents around like real police officers. JLU never does that. We train our members in the fact that they have no actual “power,” any more than any other SL resident.

    “…the wiki is full of references of how few sims have “opted-out” of your service which prove that people want you around, but how many people have opted-in? Did you go to each sim and ask the sim owner “Can we police your sim even though we have no actual power to do so?” I don’t imagine so, and I bet were you to do so, you would have quite a bit more to add to the list of sims that have opted-out.”

    Generally we do not patrol privately-owned sims unless requested (we don’t call it “policing,” because we have no “police” powers). We patrol mostly in public (LL-owned) sims such as the sandboxes, Infohubs, and Welcome Areas. If we happen to be in a privately-owned sim and see a violation of the CS or T0S, we have the same right as any other SL resident to write an AR on it. The difference there is that many times the sim owner or an officer of the group will be available to take care of the griefing, so if they are available our ARs would be unnecessary.

    “Griefing is not so large of a threat as you make it, and as I said before, your group tends to make it worse. A griefer is someone who is looking to get an amusing reaction out of someone: the best way to fight them is to ignore them, they get bored and go away.”

    I was once in a group where the leadership decided that “ignore griefing and it will go away” was a good plan. The philosophy was that since the sandboxes reset themselves every five hours, anything rezzed by the griefers would be temporary. The error in their thinking was that they forgot about the residents trying to build in the sandboxes and being bounced around by physical cubes carrying some of the grossest pictures you’ve ever seen. The other thing they forgot is that the Linden Lab, in their Knowledge Base, requests Abuse Reports from anyone, and if more people are affected, they want more ARs. “We encourage you to file reports on abuse you see happening anywhere in addition to abuse that targets you personally. Not every Resident is aware of the abuse reporting mechanisms, or remembers to use them in times of trouble, so help out your fellow Residents! Reports from multiple people show the RESI (Resident Experience Support Inworld) Team that an incident affected more people than a single report would. If twenty Residents are affected, we should receive at least twenty abuse reports from twenty different Residents, which can corroborate evidence.” Writing ARs on abuse makes things better, not worse, because it stops the abuse.

    “And yet I notice from the wiki and from Second Life that there is a populated and established secondary JLU group called “League of Heroes”, that has the same purpose of JLU, possibly more members, and is less of a copyright timebomb. Why not abandon the JLU group and rebrand everything based off that?”

    As you’ve seen in the wiki, the League of Heroes group is a topic of discussion in JLU. Right now there is no reason for us to abandon the JLU group and its superhero characters, any more than the Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica and Marvel groups in SL need to change. If DC or Warner orders us to stop using JLU, we can easily switch. Until then, there’s no compelling reason to change things.

    “I find it kind of odd that people would approach someone dressed as a super hero with griefer problems, does that mean if I wore a superhero outfit, people would be coming up to me with griefer problems instead of to the proper people like Linden Lab or the sim’s admin?”

    Maybe they would. Generally I’ve found that these are folks who are new to Second Life and don’t know how to write an AR. They’re being stalked and harrassed in a sandbox and looking for someone to help them.

    “I would certainly like to re-suggest that you make it a point that JLU closes down the JLU-wiki as we know it and instead opens it up again as a public resource wiki for anti-griefer material.”

    It’s a good idea to have the anti-griefer material available. Most of what you suggest is already part of the LL Knowledge Base. Whether it’s there or in the JLU wiki or both, a big problem would be educating people about where to find it. It’s nice to have it available but it doesn’t do any good if no one can use it. Maybe we could build a notecard with links to relevant areas of the Knowledge Base and hand it out to interested residents.

    “I think the JLU needs more transparency in their day to day operation, especially in the wiki…”

    That makes sense for a government agency that is responsible to the people, or for a politician who represents the electorate. A private SL group doesn’t owe anyone “transparency” though, unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by that.

    “Honestly, I think what’s trampling JLU’s reputation currently is not the articles and comments, it’s the wiki itself…”

    I believe it’s not so much the wiki as it is people’s reaction to it. Some folks are using it as an opportunity to stir up trouble and throw stones at JLU. It’s not working, though. As for copyrights vs. copyrights, JLU will stop using copyrighted characters and material if DC or Warner asks us to. The Herald has been asked to remove the JLU wiki material and has not done so. I guess that’s one difference between us.

    “Stop trying to take the power into your own hands, and start trying to give it to the people you claim to want to help.”

    This sounds great, but I’m not sure what it means. JLU is making some internal changes to keep this kind of thing from happening again…or at least not for a long time. Our reputation is the same as it ever was; the people who liked us before still like us now, and the people who didn’t like us still don’t. The overall result is that we’re still here, still helping people, went through a learning process and some drama, and came out the other side much stronger. We don’t have any power in Second Life, never did and probably never will. We’re just residents trying to help people the best way we can.
35. 

    Nelson Jenkins
    

    Feb 1st, 2010
    

    /me sits on the edge of his seat, stealing and munching on Ari’s popcorn, fully expecting a DMCA on the individual kernels he is consuming because they were part of a package that was originally obtained by Ari, nevermind the fact that they were created by someone else entirely

    Evening of February 1. I’m guessing TypePad had a good lol at these guys after reading all of this and just dropped the dispute altogether.
36. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @GLE

    I’ll try to address the points you aimed in my direction. If I miss any, forgive me but your post leaps around a little and I’m trying at the same time to fix a computer that one of my colleagues has killed

    “To characterize JLU members as “sleazy,” you would have to believe the anti-JLU baseless allegations and outright lies that have been written in the Herald recently. You should require the same evidence to form a personal opinion as you require to write an article for the Herald.”

    Hehe, you really don’t want me opening my mouth about now. If you wish to see my opinions as baseless and one-sided or misinformed or whatever, feel free to add a pinch of salt etc etc and consider them as hearsay or whatever. My opinions are not based on what I’ve read here or even what I’ve read in your wiki files. My opinions are based on the research I’ve carried out behind the scenes. Research which does not show the JLU in a very nice light. Research which shows that some of the core members are so deeply immersed in their fantasy that they are unhinged and delusional. Research which has proven that many of the incidents in the wiki files are exaggerated to give the illusion of the necessity of the JLU’s continued existence and righteousness of cause. Like I say, there are people in the JLU who REALLY DO NOT WANT me to get overly chatty in the current atmosphere

    “I would have guessed it was Intlibber, since he had a few JLU names on his ban lists for whatever reason, but he didn’t fit your earlier description of someone who didn’t know the wiki had been stolen.”

    Then you would be wrong if that had been your guess. I have never met Intlibber, I have never spoken to Intlibber. I once stood in the same room as him, at the first Post 6 Grrrl party, which I believe you also attended? That’s the closest I have ever come to Intlibber Brautigan. I don’t believe I’ve ever so much as looked at his profile?

    “This is different from the original account of JLU members being repeatedly ejected and banned.”

    I don’t play word games and don’t craft cleverly worded sentences. I could if you like though? When it comes to articles, yes. When it comes to comments, no. I simply don’t have the time for games of that nature personally. So let me reiterate – Landowner, got fed up of JLU members turning up and throwing their weight around, ejected and banned them as a bloody nuisance”. That should clear that up I believe? That was one landowner, I have talked to several. I reiterate that not one of them to date has had anything positive to say about the JLU. A couple had not heard of the JLU name per se but knew you as “those costumed idiots” (note, I’m paraphrasing here). I’ve already posted two comments from such people in a post earlier in this thread.

    “JLU in its anti-griefer mode is nothing more than a Neighborhood Watch in Second Life.”

    Really? So the public chatlogs I have of JLU members discussing caging and orbiting people to teach them a lesson (forgive me, I’m paraphrasing again) is the action of a neighbourhood watch? Personally I call it a vigilante group.

    “This misconception you have about role playing is a symptom of a deeper, seemingly deliberate misunderstanding about JLU that I would not expect to see manifested in someone who considers herself to be a journalist.”

    Hmm, nice obfuscation 8D When I write and research articles, they are subject to journalistic and/or academic rigour as far as is reasonable and appropriate. When I write a comment, I am commenting based upon my own direct experiences and opinions. I made that clear in a comment on one of the previous threads.

    “”Have no fear, citizens! Green Lantern will save you! Unhand that lolcube, vile miscreant!”"

    You should totally do this 8D

    The fact remains unaddressed. The JLU wiki as a concept is creepy and morally objectionable, especially as it is kept secret. If you want your group to be taken seriously and with some validity, then that wiki has to be publicly accessible and accountable and with procedures in place for people to search it for references to themselves and to be able to have incorrect data removed or corrected and it absolutely SHOULD NOT include RL information of ANY description. Until that time, you people are self-appointed guardians of nothing more than your own desire to be a secret society, roleplaying as superheroes and creating “supervillains” so you’ll maintain your raison d’etre. *If* the wiki was for personal use only, then that’s one thing but the information it contains can be used to create actual consequences for people who have no way to check if information held about them is accurate or current or objectionable.

    I’m not one to tell the Lab what to do but if I was, I’d instruct them to discount and ignore any and all abuse reports made by JLU members. I’d also make it a policy written into TOS that people abusing the abuse report system with endless false and exaggerated reports should be penalised, maybe by having their reporting function taken away? Your endless abuse reports clog the system and genuine reports are being delayed from attention.

    Question – why isn’t Kalel Venkman saying anything?
37. 

    Sean
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    Wow, didn’t think this would get so bad for you, Hope you end up okay, show these asses whose boss@
38. 

    We
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @GreenLantern Excelsior

    “The SL Police groups have bad reputations because their members sometimes try to order residents around like real police officers. JLU never does that. We train our members in the fact that they have no actual “power,” any more than any other SL resident.”

    NEVER does that? No member in the history of JLU ever? I think that’s a tall order you’re making there. People volunteer for Police groups such as yours because they think it gives them authority, people who volunteer to get authority are the people who want to abuse it. Obviously your group has no real power (except the ability to throw gas on any griefing fire you attend), but that doesn’t mean your members won’t attempt to abuse perceived power.

    “Generally we do not patrol privately-owned sims unless requested (we don’t call it “policing,” because we have no “police” powers). We patrol mostly in public (LL-owned) sims such as the sandboxes, Infohubs, and Welcome Areas. If we happen to be in a privately-owned sim and see a violation of the CS or T0S, we have the same right as any other SL resident to write an AR on it. The difference there is that many times the sim owner or an officer of the group will be available to take care of the griefing, so if they are available our ARs would be unnecessary.”

    Whether you call it “policing” or not doesn’t change what it is, policing doesn’t imply power, it just implies regulation. I notice one of the sims that has opted out “Aquatic Sandbox” is a private sim, which apparently your group evidently had to be banned from, I also see mention of Caledon, another group of private sims, that logs refer to which suggests you had intended to go there until one of the admins told you off.

    “I was once in a group where the leadership decided that “ignore griefing and it will go away” was a good plan. The philosophy was that since the sandboxes reset themselves every five hours, anything rezzed by the griefers would be temporary. The error in their thinking was that they forgot about the residents trying to build in the sandboxes and being bounced around by physical cubes carrying some of the grossest pictures you’ve ever seen. The other thing they forgot is that the Linden Lab, in their Knowledge Base, requests Abuse Reports from anyone, and if more people are affected, they want more ARs. “We encourage you to file reports on abuse you see happening anywhere in addition to abuse that targets you personally. Not every Resident is aware of the abuse reporting mechanisms, or remembers to use them in times of trouble, so help out your fellow Residents! Reports from multiple people show the RESI (Resident Experience Support Inworld) Team that an incident affected more people than a single report would. If twenty Residents are affected, we should receive at least twenty abuse reports from twenty different Residents, which can corroborate evidence.” Writing ARs on abuse makes things better, not worse, because it stops the abuse.”

    I’m not saying don’t send an abuse report, I’m just saying send the abuse report if they’re really that bad, then either mute them, turn off particles, sit down if they’re using push objects/weapons, or leave if they’re crashing the sim. Don’t even acknowledge their existence. A member of the JLU showing up in a sim to file abuse reports, something anyone in the sim can and likely already has does, just gives them reason to stay. Really it’d be better if your group dropped the costumes, super hero labels, etc. altogether. The problem is when you guys show up it makes the griefers want to hit the area harder, while I’m sure the JLU thinks that griefers tend to hit areas the JLU are in harder and more focused out of fear of the JLU, it’s actually because the JLU is one of their favorite targets to hit because you all take things far too seriously.

    “As you’ve seen in the wiki, the League of Heroes group is a topic of discussion in JLU. Right now there is no reason for us to abandon the JLU group and its superhero characters, any more than the Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica and Marvel groups in SL need to change. If DC or Warner orders us to stop using JLU, we can easily switch. Until then, there’s no compelling reason to change things.”

    Normally I would agree, but the Marvel groups and Battlestar Galactica groups aren’t filing take-down notices all over the internet claiming bogus copyrights while in turn massively violating copyrights of their own. For them it’s just fandom or role-play, for the JLU right now it’s massive hypocrisy. Here’s a reason to change: Show that you respect others copyrights, not just your own. If you want to issue take-down notices, threaten copyright lawsuits, and claim the moral high ground, maybe you should stop violating copyright yourself.

    “Maybe they would. Generally I’ve found that these are folks who are new to Second Life and don’t know how to write an AR. They’re being stalked and harrassed in a sandbox and looking for someone to help them.”

    And I hope you discuss with them that people dressed like superheroes are not the people to take ARs or abuse too and are just normal people with no power whatsoever.

    “It’s a good idea to have the anti-griefer material available. Most of what you suggest is already part of the LL Knowledge Base. Whether it’s there or in the JLU wiki or both, a big problem would be educating people about where to find it. It’s nice to have it available but it doesn’t do any good if no one can use it. Maybe we could build a notecard with links to relevant areas of the Knowledge Base and hand it out to interested residents.”

    A notecard is a good idea. The primary point however is to take down the giant secret wiki full of useless personal information on people, the suggestion to move to a public wiki with anti-griefer information was just an alternative to taking down the wiki entirely. I think there are some griefer-specific information you could keep up, like information on griefer groups (not “suspected” ones, but ones that are well established and known) or information on kinds of griefer attacks and how to combat them (like I said before, mute for spammers, sitting down for push weapons, turning off particles for particle bombs, etc.) but besides that, no personal information, no individual information, no chat logs, etc.

    “That makes sense for a government agency that is responsible to the people, or for a politician who represents the electorate. A private SL group doesn’t owe anyone “transparency” though, unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by that.”

    You owed transparency the moment you decided collecting information on people was a good idea.

    “I believe it’s not so much the wiki as it is people’s reaction to it. Some folks are using it as an opportunity to stir up trouble and throw stones at JLU. It’s not working, though.”

    Do you think there’s a reason for the poor reaction to the wiki? Would the JLU be okay if I had a giant secret wiki full of illicitly obtained chat logs of JLU meetings and operations, information on all the members including real life names, contact information, blogging sites, etc. where available? I imagine the reaction would be much the same, and that’s exactly what you’ve done here.

    “As for copyrights vs. copyrights, JLU will stop using copyrighted characters and material if DC or Warner asks us to. The Herald has been asked to remove the JLU wiki material and has not done so. I guess that’s one difference between us.”

    Well the difference so far is that Kalel has claimed copyright on a number of things he has no right to claim copyright on, DC and Marvel simply don’t care enough about you to bother claiming copyright, but that doesn’t change that you’re knowingly violating copyright on one hand while on the other slapping a person for supposedly violating your copyright. You can’t have it both ways. Either you respect people’s copyrights or you don’t. Right now your words say you do and your actions say you don’t.

    “This sounds great, but I’m not sure what it means. JLU is making some internal changes to keep this kind of thing from happening again…or at least not for a long time. Our reputation is the same as it ever was; the people who liked us before still like us now, and the people who didn’t like us still don’t. The overall result is that we’re still here, still helping people, went through a learning process and some drama, and came out the other side much stronger. We don’t have any power in Second Life, never did and probably never will. We’re just residents trying to help people the best way we can.”

    Do you keep a tally on “who likes you” and “who doesn’t” or is this like the “opt-in” and “opt-out” thing: “Presumed opted-in until proven otherwise”? Before this the JLU were mostly off my radar, too tiny and insignificant to make me notice. Now I’d say I’d rather be griefed than deal with the JLU; at least griefers recognize they’re being annoying and go away after a while.
39. 

    GreenLantern Excelsior
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @ Senban

    “My opinions are not based on what I’ve read here or even what I’ve read in your wiki files. My opinions are based on the research I’ve carried out behind the scenes. Research which does not show the JLU in a very nice light. Research which shows that some of the core members are so deeply immersed in their fantasy that they are unhinged and delusional. Research which has proven that many of the incidents in the wiki files are exaggerated to give the illusion of the necessity of the JLU’s continued existence and righteousness of cause.”

    Certain members do enjoy exaggeration, but that doesn’t mean they are unhinged or delusional. It bothers me how some of these stereotypes have been preserved and reinforced. Maybe you and I could get together and chat about this some day, on or off the record.

    “I don’t play word games and don’t craft cleverly worded sentences.”

    Thanks for the clarification.

    “So the public chatlogs I have of JLU members discussing caging and orbiting people to teach them a lesson (forgive me, I’m paraphrasing again) is the action of a neighbourhood watch? Personally I call it a vigilante group.”

    Discussing the idea of getting rid of a griefer certainly seems harmless. The JLU bylaws call for reducing a member to recruit status for any use of a “conventional weapon” during a confrontation with a griefer. I would be very interested to know more about what you heard.

    “The fact remains unaddressed. The JLU wiki as a concept is creepy and morally objectionable, especially as it is kept secret. If you want your group to be taken seriously and with some validity, then that wiki has to be publicly accessible and accountable and with procedures in place for people to search it for references to themselves and to be able to have incorrect data removed or corrected and it absolutely SHOULD NOT include RL information of ANY description.”

    As a long-time discussion board user, you’re probably familiar with the concept of private Administrator forums where the information posted can’t be seen by non-members, or even by current members if they don’t have the right access level. Are those private forums creepy and objectionable? Should they be immediately opened for access by everyone in the world so we can all see if our names are mentioned? Your answers are probably no and no to those questions. So why can a discussion board have private forums but JLU can’t have a private wiki? Doesn’t JLU have the same right as any discussion board administrator to keep certain information behind closed doors?

    “*If* the wiki was for personal use only, then that’s one thing…”

    The wiki was private information, locked away behind two levels of password protection, for the use of JLU members only.

    “…but the information it contains can be used to create actual consequences for people who have no way to check if information held about them is accurate or current or objectionable.”

    Ah, yes, the ancient “potential for abuse” argument. Everything I have should be taken away because some day I might go rogue and use a piece of it for evil purposes. This is sometimes also stated as “You’ll shoot your eye out, kid.” It turns out that most kids use their Red Ryder BB guns without doing evil with them. Only when actual abuse occurs should the weapon be confiscated. I think the wiki should have the same consideration. No JLU member ever called Tizzers at home, or sent Deadly Codec a magazine subscription, or bothered Frizzlefry’s employer with allegations of misconduct. If the information wasn’t misused, then there were no actual consequences, hence there is no problem. Now JLU has been trying to get people to remove the hosted wiki files, and one big reason is that it does reveal private information that was previously kept under password protection. I’m sure you would probably ask people to remove your private chat logs if they were stolen and published.

    “I’m not one to tell the Lab what to do but if I was, I’d instruct them to discount and ignore any and all abuse reports made by JLU members. I’d also make it a policy written into TOS that people abusing the abuse report system with endless false and exaggerated reports should be penalised, maybe by having their reporting function taken away? Your endless abuse reports clog the system and genuine reports are being delayed from attention.”

    If by “false and exaggerated reports” you are referring to the items in the large table published in the article “JLU Wiki Leak: Second Life Abuse Report Frenzy,” then I have to explain once again that those are JLU “Articles,” written to inform other JLU members about different residents, not Abuse Reports submitted to Linden Lab. This is exactly what I meant when I mentioned “a deeper, seemingly deliberate misunderstanding about JLU.” Maybe Pixeleen didn’t really understand the difference between Articles/Incidents and Abuse Reports. That would explain why the Herald article puts the two terms side by side. I would hate to think the author had planned to confuse people into thinking we submitted all those Incidents to Linden Lab. JLU does not submit false or exaggerated Abuse Reports.

    “Question – why isn’t Kalel Venkman saying anything?”

    The last thing Kalel said to the Herald about this issue was “I have nothing more to say to you.” I believe his decision still stands.
40. 

    Rob "N3X15" Nelson
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    If the JLU aren’t going to serve the public by making their anti-griefing stuff available for the public to learn from, then perhaps it’s time for someone to step up and make a wiki for people to contribute to? I’d be happy to put down the information I know about the PN, and countermeasures to popular griefing attacks.
41. 

    icallbullshit
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @ GreenLantern & We

    …and the rest of you extra-long-ranting asshats for that matter…

    TL;DR

    seriously GO GET A F’N! Life…this sh!t ain’t worth it. Ya kno?
42. 

    Tux Winkler
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @GLE

    “The Second Life Terms of Service and Community Standards do not apply outside Second Life or the Second Life forums. Linden Lab will not be doing any hardware bans because someone posted chat logs on an Internet wiki page.”

    Agreed, which is why I have no intention of taking down the little subdomain I host for a fellow resident! However, there is one point: your brainiac device, which recalls info into public chat. Thats right, then it is back in SL, oh, guess what, now it breaches TOS.

    —

    I would just like to mention how entertaining it was last night watching the JLU and the lanterns try to find an object shouting the address of the leaked wiki on Sandbox Island (seems some clever so-and-so figured a way to not allow the prim to be clicked so it cannot be directly reported). Anyways, I chatted with one such ‘trained’ Lantern member to see just how polite and respectful they really are (I told him I would use the chat log and he asked to remove his name, which I have done – but I will laugh about it forever):

    [2010-02-01 18:34:55]
    Lantern Man: I’m sorry?
    Tux Winkler: It’s Ok, I don’t expect an apology
    Lantern Man: Are you talking abou tthat annoying chat spam I’m trying to AR?
    Tux Winkler: trying, yes, thats it, I mean it is no coincidence you just happened to come here to report it. After the other ‘superheros’
    Lantern Man: I come here to build. I’m no hero, but I also don’t like faggots harrasoing me or others.
    Tux Winkler: who is harassing you?
    Tux Winkler: who is a faggot?
    Lantern Man: That fucking chat spammer you dumba ss.
    Tux Winkler: Oh, don’t take it out on me because you are having issues, why not just mute the owner?
    Lantern Man: Becaus it didn’t work.
    Lantern Man: I already muted the faggot.
    Tux Winkler: Who did you mute?
    Lantern Man: Kinda Beamish
    Tux Winkler: Oh then you will have to mute the prim then
    Lantern Man: I was trying, but all the stupid pirms around it pervent that.
    Tux Winkler: oh the other superhero prims?
    Lantern Man: Later man.

    I would also like to add, Kalel, GLE and the others who came to find the prim and failed to AR it directly refused to comment. For a group so keen to help us ‘mortals’, conversation is clearly not a strong point. I guess the time has come to keep silent, because every word will get posted to websites that aren’t hosted in the bat cave on the superheros supercomputer behind the superfirewall!

    XD
43. 

    Robble Rubble
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @GLE

    “I didn’t know that. I was thinking it came from an IRC channel. So it could have been an alt in the Woodbury group, or maybe one of the Woodbury members relaying group chat information. I understand.”

    No GLE quit lying, we talked one day in sandbox island extension and I told you exactly who it was and you admitted it was an external op for JLU. You know exactly who it was who was relaying chat information.

    Why are you guys making my job of moderating a sandbox so difficult?
44. 

    Robble Rubble
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    @Tux Winkler

    “because every word will get posted to websites that aren’t hosted in the bat cave on the superheros supercomputer behind the superfirewall!”

    Excuse me but the super duper computer is located in mom’s basement of solitude.
45. 

    Benedictus
    

    Feb 2nd, 2010
    

    looks like some scubbing of the site ocurred after all
46. 

    FrizzleFry
    

    Feb 3rd, 2010
    

    @GreenLantern Excelsior
    It is true, the best you’ve managed was making an alt in clown clothes, screencapping it and writing poems about us. You didn’t do a good job spying that’s for sure, we ended up stealing your sl accounts and wiping your base.

    The logic of going around trying to AR griefers who already hit their target and left is futile, by the time anyone left they would have 10 or so AR’s cooking, you’d add the 11′th after they were already logged out and pretend the ban only happened because of you, because you wanted linden appreciation.

    I still have that screencap of kalel bending over for frontier linden in gay yiffy club, the one frontier banned a guy for taking.
47. 

    Oh rly
    

    Feb 3rd, 2010
    

    quote:

    ‘The wiki was private information, locked away behind two levels of password protection, for the use of JLU members only.’

    And a 4-day member was given access to it, which is how you got the leak in the first place. And that account probably wasn’t the first to gain access quickly. Your argument about the wiki’s supposed privacy is invalid if all it takes is some social engineering to get access to all that information.
48. 

    whatever
    

    Feb 3rd, 2010
    

    I just love how you high and mighty self-appointed police nazis are trying to impose your worldview upon everybody else.

    Oh, and if you’re confused, I’m referring to you hypocrites here on the Herald. Well done, becoming the very thing you’re pretending to be fighting against.

    Dipshits.
49. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Feb 3rd, 2010
    

    @GLE

    I’ve honestly grown bored of this entire nonsense now and I’m not even bothering to read stuff anymore. But I will address this point I noticed.

    “As a long-time discussion board user, you’re probably familiar with the concept of private Administrator forums where the information posted can’t be seen by non-members, or even by current members if they don’t have the right access level. Are those private forums creepy and objectionable? Should they be immediately opened for access by everyone in the world so we can all see if our names are mentioned? Your answers are probably no and no to those questions. So why can a discussion board have private forums but JLU can’t have a private wiki? Doesn’t JLU have the same right as any discussion board administrator to keep certain information behind closed doors?”

    As well as being a forum user I’m also been topic moderator, a global moderator and even full admin on a number of boards, unrelated to SL I shuold add but still.

    On one particular board (a very VERY public name so far as internet forums go), I was given the key to the executive suite so to speak and got to see all the stuff that goes on that the vast majority of a board’s users are unaware of. Such as user files, private information and so on. I was even told explicitly “for fuck’s sake don’t ever reveal the fact that we keep such notes on our users because if it ever gets out, we’d be in serious legal trouble.” Sounds familiar, right? I stayed long enough to see just what kind of data was being gathered by this particular forum and then left because I could not condone the collection of data in this way, especially without the consent of those who were having their data collected.

    You see, I know the difference between right and wrong. The JLU don’t.

    When I left that particular forum, I could have thrown their activities into the public light and literally ruined them. But I didn’t, I walked away, I voted with my feet. If I’d joined the JLU and discovered that such files were being kept without the consent of those within them, I would likewise have walked away because to remain would have condone an immoral act. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who supports the JLU, supports immoral acts.

    That is all.
50. 

    Robble Rubble
    

    Feb 3rd, 2010
    

    Oh hey looks like the archive of the slherald’s recent articles I had saved is going to come in handy.

    @Kalel Venkman

    Hi I’m the mastermind behind the wrong hands and I’m going to continue fucking you with my now massive e-penis. I have a lot planned for you in February so have fun as I continue ruining your reputation.

    (I know you are too much of a pussy to post on the comments here but I know you are still reading.)

Leave a Reply