Could Sims 2 Baby BBQ Seriously Help SL Survive?
by Alphaville Herald on 01/04/11 at 12:14 pm
Or will Second Life users' hate and fear of change destroy the metavese?
by Omelet ex-Linden, concerned shareholder
Recently I was talking with my last two inside-the-Lab contacts - Sensipoo and Hubris Linden - about Second Life's trajectory, which inevitably ends in oblivion. As usual, Sensipoo Linden broke into tears at the thought of criticism of Second Life. Meanwhile Hubris Linden and I pondered the words of Linden Lab founder Philip Rosedale, who once warned SL's most dedicated users, “Try not to cling too tightly to what we have now... [coming] changes are sometimes going to be disruptive and painful.”
point and click navigation now - BBQ later?
Hubris reminded me that disruptive and painful change has been the key to destroying all player trust in the Linden Lab, so more of the same would certainly help. But what could the Lab do beyond Facebook integration and point-and-click avatar navigation to save Second Life - and upset current players? Then it hit us. Second Life needs to copy The Sims 2 with special Baby BBQs to meet the needs of the seriously underserved virtual cannibalism market.
After watching a few YouTube videos, the path forward was clear. Hubris Linden promised me that soon all Linden Homes will include realistic grills suitable for disposing of prim babies and Second Life will be saved - unless the current players make Sensipoo Linden cry again.
Senban Babii
Apr 1st, 2011
Omelet’s rants about how SL residents’ fear and hatred of change will be the undoing of SL have been amusing over on NWN.
But think about this.
Every change LL makes is met with resistance and rarely makes the average resident’s experiences better.
Every change CCP makes to EVE Online is met with joy and welcoming arms, making the average player’s experiences better.
One of these doesn’t change the game, just adds new depth and options and essentially allows the player to keep enjoying their current experiences but to have more options if they want them.
One of these arbitrarily changes the game, fixes things which aren’t broken and which haven’t been asked for and is constantly attempting to redefine the game into something their customers don’t generally want, causing them to leave in droves.
One of these isn’t just a provider but is actually inworld with you regularly, right there among you and also actually appoints average players to a council that actually gets consulted and has a say in the future of the platform.
One of these lives in an ivory tower and occasionally has what it thinks is a good idea which it then throws over the side of the tower without actually thinking about the effect or even whether it’s needed or wanted and tells the peasants below that the fact they are not happy consumers is what will destroy the world.
Well children, can you guess which ones apply to which company?
The fact is that LL is determined to turn the SL platform into something that is not what was sold to the residents and not what those residents want. That is why SL is dying on its feet Omelet and that’s why the residents are so resistant.
Learn from EVE. When SL is a footnote in history, EVE will still be going strong.
Also, loved the baby thing
Darien Caldwell
Apr 1st, 2011
“Every change CCP makes to EVE Online is met with joy and welcoming arms, making the average player’s experiences better.”
This sentence made me think about why that is. Then it kind of dawned on me. In Eve, there is a pretty limited number of things you can do (compared to SL).
So usually when the Eve developers make a change, it’s expanding the abilities offered to the player. A positive outcome.
In SL, you can already do just about anything you want. So when LL makes a change, it’s usually to reduce what people can do. It’s a very negative dynamic.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Apr 1st, 2011
“Every change CCP makes to EVE Online is met with joy and welcoming arms, making the average player’s experiences better.”
What nonsense. It’s internet law that ALL updates to ALL games ruin the game and ALL games are failing because the developers don’t listen to the fans NO EXCEPTIONS. Thank you for your EVE fanboi post but we all know you are almost certainly posting “why can’t EVE be more like SL? EVe is dying, OH NOZ!!!” in the EVE forum.
Disgusted
Apr 1st, 2011
This is truly disgusting!!! Anyone that would consider eating a bbq baby is very sick, virtual or not. I can understand all forms of change to progress but this is not progress this is barbaric. There must be some very sad individuals out there to think this crap up.
Anyone that would roleplay this in a family setting is super fxcked.
Sinead McMillan
Apr 1st, 2011
@senban and darien
yeah, the first pic embraces it.
also, i’d like to second that statement: “Every change LL makes is met with resistance and rarely makes the average resident’s experiences better.” how can that be? nwn and other sort of morons are actively trying to push it – sl – structurally and culturally in directions which cannot be healthy at all. it’s sad.
Senban Babii
Apr 1st, 2011
@Emperor
Actually with every passing update I’m more and more convinced that EVE is broadening the overall possibilties for players without dropping any quality. In fact the quality is improving beyond anything SL has ever dreamed of. Have you seen the new Carbon-based avatar creation engine? The detail and realism is probably the best available anywhere.
http://whenitchanged.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-eve-online-avatars.html
Just today I was reading a Dev blog about some of the upcoming additions in the pipeline such as pets that you’ll have to look after and mounts. These open up new ways to play EVE without affecting the original core game.
So as well as all the usual PvP, PvE etc that has been the core of EVE for years, you’ve now got the Incarna avatars and all the new ways to play that will bring, you’ve got Dust 514 in the pipeline for all the FPS players and so on. Increasing the breadth and depth whilst not only improving quality but doing so by listening to the actual players.
When was the last time LL released something like this video just to show what they had in the pipeline?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw
Am I an EVE fangrrrl? Yes. Do you know why? Because they’re doing all the things right that I honestly wish LL would do with SL. And all they’d have to do is go back to the days of charging for accounts and then provide a solid, expanding and deepening resident experience. And perhaps less is more.
Oh and I don’t think I’ve ever actually posted on the EVE forums
hobo kelly
Apr 1st, 2011
Wellsum, I swear you can almost smell them thar Baby Back Ribs a cookin’ an sizzlin’ all the way over here to Hobo Junction. Baste those little bastards real good now, ya hear, and maybe make a little tent over it with some of that thar aluminum foil whatnot to keep it from dryin’ out. An only turn it once per side sos you don’t mess up yur grill marks and all. An remember, it ain’t done an safe ta eat until that thar belly button pops out…
April Cordeaux
Apr 2nd, 2011
The idea of eating prim babies is exactly like the “Modest Proposal” by Jonathan Swift which was also a satire.
http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html
Yep
Apr 2nd, 2011
Anyone who would find even the slightest delight in such a rp needs to have their brain checked.
Being this story was posted on April Fool’s day, I think this is a joke.
IntLibber
Apr 2nd, 2011
Darien,
While there is some sense in your logic, it is also a fact that SL is a huge nest of emo hug-box hermits who wish nothing more than to crawl back in the womb.
Secondly, there is a financial aspect. The work ethic in SL is mostly one of entitlement one sees in welfare babies (conversely EVE and Entropia have a user work ethic that is more along the lines of “cut your whining, shut the fuck up and get back to work”), and a lot of people have a lot of money invested in their SL businesses, often these are businesses that are geared to making a profit off of some loophole in the system, so when jealous losers bitch at LL to close the loopholes, obviously the people making money off the loopholes are then going to bitch at losing their income source, and they will get revenge by looking at how the original bitchers are making their money and look into negating their income source.
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 2nd, 2011
@ Senban Babii
My philosophy has, and always will be, “trash SL and start anew”.
Nothing good can be done with a platform designed with 2002 technology.
Christ, we don’t even have mesh importing yet.
If some SL users were any knowledgeable they would take SL’s concept – build, script, design, congregate, etc. – and put it into a game that actually stands up to the other games out on the market today. I have yet to show SL to anyone in real life without them laughing. Cut the notification icons, the UI that looks like it was designed by a software engineer from 2005, and these silly marketing notions and just make a better fucking game.
I just need to make a list someday of all the things that would make SL better. Problem is, I’d need a bigger hard drive.
Yep
Apr 2nd, 2011
YAY!!! Go getem Tiger
Senban Babii
Apr 2nd, 2011
Sadly I agree with you Nelson. My thinking though is this.
Consider Windows XP. It came out at the time of Noah but it’s still functional and pervasive. So even though it’s now obsolete and pants, it’s still workable. But in the meantime Microsoft created the next generation products alongside, running them in parallel with the older models gradually falling away if you see what I mean?
SL as it currently stands is XP. It functions and we have a fond nostalgia for it. But LL should already have been looking ahead so that their next generation product was being developed alongside. We should now be either logging into SL Vista or SL 7 or at least being shown amazing promo videos of what it will look like, just like that EVE promo above.
Their first step has to be a completely new avatar creation engine. Ultimately the avatar is the centre of our experience and like Tizzers (IIRC) once wrote here, it’s all about the avatar. We need something that can stand up against the best currently available and preferably better. Look at how many avatar-related sites opened up once EVE adopted the Carbon engine? Given the really limited options, people have created some amazingly creative avatars and new options are currently being added. And that’s for a game primarily about spaceships! SL is all about the avatar, it should be SL that is generating massive numbers of fan sites and excitement about avatar creativity.
http://facecardgame.com/eve/
http://204.74.223.75/incarna/
Come on LL, raise your game or die. That’s how simple it is.
Orca Flotta
Apr 2nd, 2011
Yeah Senban, our avies are dear to us. Of course they are, they represent us in world so we want them to look neat. Prim and proper
But SL fails in many other aspects as well: since you mentioned Noah, wasn’t he the one who created the first JIRA about borked sim crossings, when his ark was returned to lost and found after he accidentally tried to navigate into a sim where an orientation island was? Also the restriction to only take 2 animals as passengers was a big disappointment.
Maybe LL should stop the “flowing improvements” approach, work on a new and better SL and introduce it with a BIG BANG once it’s ready.
Senban Babii
Apr 2nd, 2011
Actually Orca I think Noah was in fact a version of the first primitar
WRT your last line, what we’re talking about here is”release small and often” versus “don’t release until you have a complete finished product”. If someone mentions extreme programming here btw I’ll scream and fling poo
If we wait until LL has a shiny new and fully functional SL2.0, we’ll end up using the old version with all its attendant problems and so it grows increasingly obsolete and everyone wanders away in increasing frustration. By following “release small and often”, exactly as CCP successfully does with EVE, the product is kept fresh and up to date and mistakes can be corrected quickly instead of waiting for giant service packs or full upgrades.
marilyn murphy
Apr 3rd, 2011
when they levied taxes on land, it was going to cause sl to fail. when they apportioned prims to sectors of land, sl was going to fail. when the prim wars started, sl was going to fail. that was in 2003 btw.
i have been hearing that drum beat for so many years now, its a dull background. yes, if people keep seeing the death of sl long enough, some day they will be right.
no one mentions it here, and i am surprised at that, but as long as people can find anonymous sexual play in sl, its going to live on. you cant have visual sexual rp in eve. you cant in wow. you can on other sites that aim at it, but not with as much social crap thrown in as u can in sl. basically, and frankly, sl is a large chat room with visuals. oh and u can buy clothes, and sex stuff.
nelson, those friends of yours that laughed at it, probably raced home and opened an account and are now some good looking avatar fucking other good looking avatars in sl. you can never know if this is true or not. this is why sl limps along.
Pappy Enoch
Apr 3rd, 2011
It am a rite good idear. Ya’ll knows I gots me a warehouse full o’ orphan fake babies, an’ feedin’ ‘em done run thru all the cash I done got out o’ Miss Peetoonia from my court settlement.
I plans to open me up a BBQ stand at Ahern / Morris WA and rake in the dough with some Caroliny pulled long-pig BBQ.
SL am full o’ wonders and them am but the newest one.
Paul
Apr 4th, 2011
it is funny that several posters missed the allusion to the Swift satire. Way to go, public education!
Second Life is just fine, and they should make it better by changing it to improve usability for the flow of new users, and too bad to the long time users.
The long term hardcore ‘regulars’ constitute the smallest percentage of residents in second life, but they sure are vocal and they sure do make life hard for most players through their business and real estate monopolies and their ridiculous griefing and posturing. Why would LL privilege their interests? I wish they wouldn’t. They should dump the opens source viewers and continue to get rid of the silly idea of ‘ownership’ and make SL what it actually is for a good portion of the residents: a diversion, a social platform, a hobby…and make that work well and in a cost effective (for the residents) way.
Those old timers who have built real life careers out of SL would have more of my sympathy if they hadn’t have turned SL into an expensive, capitalist pigsty filled with hacker nonsense like emerald viewer and that redzone thing. A user should be able to go in SL, meet people with like interests, and build things with imagination, all for a reasonable price. Playing real estate baron, sex product tycoon, or copybot hacker might be profitable and fun for a bare handful of old time residents, but it really just makes the platform unappealing for the majority, who have only the barest appreciations for the topics that obsess the readers of the Herald.
Most of us just want to have pixel sex, build funny things if we can, and chat with friends. If you have contempt for that point of view, you are taking it way to seriously, and you are in a (wayyyy to vocal) small minority. LL will fold for sure if it continues to worry too much about that minority.
Senban Babii
Apr 4th, 2011
@Paul
“The long term hardcore ‘regulars’ constitute the smallest percentage of residents in second life”
Pareto rule.
Way to go public education. I think those were your words, right?
Pappy Enoch
Apr 4th, 2011
@Paul,
Them-thar babies ain’t Irish so I figgered them Sims-folks were bein’ literal instead o’ literary.
Paul
Apr 4th, 2011
@senban if you mean by that, that most of SL’s issues are the result of the actions of a small percentage of virtual world addicts, then yes that is my point exactly. However, LL is a business that offers a product, so it is an artificial environment that, unlike say a sorority or a country, they can manage artificially. If 20% of the population degrades their product, and if the product’s development (and profitability) is stymied by the complaints of a minority, they can (and should) change the product. Who cares what Prokoff or that Eros guy thinks? ….they are two people in the face of hundreds (thousands?) of people who try SL each day and decide whether to stay or not based on the quality of the experience.
It seems that SL has a nearly non-stop flow of noob’s but that the only ones that hang around for the long term are these metagamers, and we seem to be left with, over time, a smaller and smaller population. From purely a business point of view, it would seem ideal for LL to forgo the interests of the addicts (who, let’s face it, are basically best at creating pyramid schemes, artificially driving up mainland prices, invading your privacy, and whining) in favor of figuring out how to get a greater number of the masses of new potential customers to stick around to play the game and spend some money. If, for example, they made a viewer that would increase the rate of retention of first time SL users by 20% over the long run but that resulted in a handful of old timers howling and screaming in the forums…would that be a bad business move for the long term viability of Second Life?
@Pappy. Is a virtual baby ever literal!?! I am so confused!!
Pappy Enoch
Apr 5th, 2011
@Paul, this am a fake world where physics fo’ butts, bellies, and cha-cha-bingos make the front page at New Fake World Notes:
http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2011/04/second-life-avatar-body-physics.html
I reckons if’n that makes the news, you kin say what you wants baby literal (or literary) fake babies.
Either way, the fake world am startin’ to be less cornfusin’ than the real one. At least we gots our priorities rite: bouncy gals am the future o’ Second Life.
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 5th, 2011
@ Paul
Second Life is just fine
Are you being serious? Do you have some sort of diagnosed mental condition, or are you just plain stupid? I’ll go easy on you if it’s a condition and not just an unmotivated lack of knowledge through selfish, selective observation.
and they should make it better by changing it to improve usability for the flow of new users, and too bad to the long time users.
Sure, it’s like fuck the rich to feed the poor, but fuck the old to serve the new. For reference, I am from 2005. I don’t consider myself one of the hardcore oldbies, but 6 years under my belt (or, at this point, sagging grotesquely over my belt) seems to exude this aura of “addicted oldfag”, so I’ll just go along with that for our purposes. In short: I am one of the “long time users” you speak of.
The long term hardcore ‘regulars’ constitute the smallest percentage of residents in second life
… observed from absolutely zero credible research and ignoring the fact that the majority of accounts created today are abandoned within weeks, if not days…
but they sure are vocal and they sure do make life hard for most players through their business and real estate monopolies and their ridiculous griefing and posturing.
So let me get this straight – long time users are all businessmen, realtors, griefers, or politicians? Granted, I can admit to being the first, but is this necessarily a bad thing? Would you rather us all be Gorean roleplayers? There’s no “normal” Second Life user. They are all weird in some way or another.
Why would LL privilege their interests?
Oh, gee, I dunno… maybe because if they abanoned their entire creative userbase they would be killing off their own platform? I don’t know about you, but an economy composed of entirely 1- to 2-year-old content creators doesn’t seem like a very promising future.
I can understand where you’re coming from, though. Corporate greed is pretty killer in today’s society, particularly here in the States. (Sony seems to be the punching bag of this era, what with their DRM rootkits, aggressive legal moves, et cetera.) Let’s take a look, though. We can clearly see that the U.S. government is being swayed left and right by the entertainment industry’s lobbyists – what about Linden Lab? I’m pretty sure us content creators don’t have lobbyists. We don’t even have a trade group. Hell, we don’t even have a union! The last time I told Linden Lab my ideas was when they sent me one of their surveys. I don’t go to the office hours or anything. So how, exactly, is LL “privileging” our interests, never mind acting upon them?
I wish they wouldn’t. They should dump the opens source viewers and continue to get rid of the silly idea of ‘ownership’
Hold it – you’re proposing that we get rid of ownership? You mean, like, make everything free? No content controls? No permissions?
Are you insane?
No, really, I’m beginning to think you aren’t stupid, you just have some sort of learning deficiency. Do you know how Second Life works? Or even a basic economy? People create things and sell them to make money. They use that money to buy things they like. Then they need more money, so they sell more things. That’s how shit works. You’re basically proposing a currency-less system. People might create things, sure, but nobody will really put much effort into it because there’s no motivation. They won’t make any money, and it won’t matter because everything they need is free. Content creators will cease to exist. But no – it’s best for the new users.
and make SL what it actually is for a good portion of the residents: a diversion, a social platform, a hobby…and make that work well and in a cost effective (for the residents) way.
Diversion = yes. Not sure how this is relevant, but OK. Social platform = no. I challenge you to find one real life friend of yours that plays Second Life. It is not popular enough to be a social platform. Hobby = possibly. Again, like diversion, I don’t know what your point is here.
Those old timers who have built real life careers out of SL
… yeah, those… uh… 20 people or so…
would have more of my sympathy if they hadn’t have turned SL into an expensive, capitalist pigsty filled with hacker nonsense like emerald viewer and that redzone thing.
Emerald Viewer wasn’t associated with any big-bucks businesses in SL, and RedZone was an example of some crafty computer criminal exploiting the fears of said content creators. Most of the big-name businesses shunned RedZone once it was discovered it was a scam. Prices haven’t really risen that much since the old days – instead, quality has risen exponentially and prices have, at most, gone up 50% since 2005. If you wanna talk about a capitalist pigsty, look back when Scion, Nissan, Dell, Best Buy, and all those other “corporate pigs” were investing big money into SL. Those days are over. The only people bothering to make content anymore are those of us that don’t really care much for incomes – we just do it because it entertains us and generates some petty cash. Hell, if I build something and people want to pay money for it, who are you to say it’s wrong? I’m exchanging a product for a very small amount of money. I’d make more money selling lemonade. Should we also ban lemonade because people are paying more for it than they did back in 1990?
A user should be able to go in SL, meet people with like interests, and build things with imagination,
Of course.
all for a reasonable price.
Uh, no. It’s called a free-market economy. If people want to pay high prices, then that’s all fine and well. If people don’t want to pay high prices, then content creators will make no money and will be forced to lower their prices. To sell creations at forced artificial low values would scare away content creators, which is something you do not want to do in such a fragile, near-dead platform, and would provide no motivation for the common resident to work a little to keep the economy running.
Playing real estate baron, sex product tycoon, or copybot hacker might be profitable and fun for a bare handful of old time residents, but it really just makes the platform unappealing for the majority, who have only the barest appreciations for the topics that obsess the readers of the Herald.
Freeware is great and all, but you’re reeking of this “gimme gimme gimme” mindset. New products don’t just come out of thin air – people have to be motivated to create them. That’s why we have an economy. But again, I’m just repeating myself. I would love it if there were a game like SL where everything was free, but it doesn’t exist, and never will, since nobody would waste their time slaving over something like that if they won’t get any compensation for it.
Most of us just want to have pixel sex, build funny things if we can, and chat with friends.
I rarely indulge in pixel sex (and those that view SL as a platform exclusively for such nonsense, which I presume is you, should NOT be the ones dictating how the economy is run). I build funny things because I can (if LL imposed a prim tax or forced low prices to entice new users to come indulge at the expense of content creators, I wouldn’t be able to anymore). I chat with friends all the time, but do it more often on other platforms because, again, Second Life is NOT a social platform.
If you have contempt for that point of view, you are taking it way to seriously, and you are in a (wayyyy to vocal) small minority.
I’m taking it seriously because if people like this ran the game, there would be no content creation, and us repulsive businessmen would move elsewhere. SL would be left behind in the dust, to be run by Gorean roleplayers and teens looking for the “next Facebook”. The minority is only a minority (and is getting smaller) because LL is listening to the suggestions of YOUR ilk, making the game more appealing to consumers who will pay them money, not us content creators who keep the game working for very little compensation.
LL will fold for sure if it continues to worry too much about that minority.
Well, I have several content creator friends who hail from 2005-2006, three of which are possibly the most famed car manufacturers on the grid. They grossed around US$40,000 total last year before paying off their sim, their store locations, and their various debts, not including taxes (yes, their income is also taxed by the U.S. government in favor of using that money to essentially subsidize the consumers). Oh, and they had to split the money. Since none of them have full-time jobs at the moment thanks to our oh-so-helpful government, they are each forced to live off of around US$8,000 a year in reality. To say that these people should be condemned and further taxed and regulated because they scam and exploit the Second Life population is a totally bogus claim.
I also have a friend from way back in 2003 who was also a car manufacturer until around 2010, when he was scared off by your mentality. He offered a full city sim for people to drive around in, which eventually grew into a light RP sim. He never used his income for his own personal benefit – he donated it all to charities and other SL residents. Are these the kind of people you want to leave Second Life? Are they making SL drown in its own greed?
paul
Apr 5th, 2011
@Pappy: you da MAN brotha!
@ Nelson: LOL struck a nerve didn’t I?
You didn’t say anything that contradicts any of my points, and your argument is very weak as it mostly resorts to insults to my character.
If LL made a product that captured and retained the flow of noobs more effectively and made their experience easier and more fun, then it would not matter at all if all the same conditions they set led the old timers to disappear, including your car making buddies. If retaining more noobs and improving their experience made money for LL, then why wouldn’t they do it?
I know you are all immersed in your SL, and I am sorry if what I say is uncomfortable for you and your buddies, but really, if it were profitable and easy to use, SL would and could continue without ANY current residents or their creations. New content is always being generated by new residents. In fact, I know you don’t agree with me, but I would argue that without the land barons, capitalists, griefers, whiners, and other metagamers it would be a better experience for all. Don’t forget, the number of people utterly vested personally and economically in SL is in the larger scale very small, and is probably dwarfed by the potential of the flow of noobs if they did it right. Do I have actual figures to back this up? of course not, as I really don’t care that much (not being so vested myself), but I would bet I am not wrong about the basic demographic structure. I know it is hard when you are so vested but check it out: most SL users don’t know or care about any of the issues discussed in the Herald, and are just here to play as a hobby or diversion.
Glad to hear about the success of your autobuilding buddies. I hope SL continues in the same way for their sake. It could (and might actually) go under tomorrow. For sure there are many talented people and delightful content in SL but don’t fool yourself… do you really think $40,000 a year is a real business? In an artificial platform that could go belly up at any moment? They are not and never will be getting “taxed”..they are paying for the use of a privately owned service, a video game, regardless of the idealistic rhetoric from when the service was founded. several years of ad-farms, lawsuits, pyramid schemes, and griefing later, the inmates have proven they can not responsibly run the asylum.
Actually, content builders like your autobuilders are lucky that real professionals don’t take more of an interest in SL. Go check out the cars made by A.M. Radio that he gives away for free…if he made the same kind of cars your friends made as a ‘professional Second Life business”, they would be out of business in a week. Over the last year, I have shown at least three RL professional graphic designers SL, and some of the best builds I could find, and they were basically just amused.
SL businesspeople are choosing to play against a loaded deck. Freemarket? you aren’t serious are you? God bless them if they are successful, but you do realize how rare even their kind of success is? and how tenuous it really is? … once again, the majority of SL residents do not put the time, energy, or inclination into the game, and could care less too. When I read your response, you seem to be indexing a vast and profound reality that actually only exists for a relative handful of people.
I am sorry I do not know your exacting definitions of terms like “social platform” let me rephrase: most people come into SL to talk to other people. better?
Nelson, I am sorry that you are so vested in such a shaky (virtual) reality, and the seeming safety and lack of jeopardy it entails. If it all goes south, let me give you some advice: in the real world, where there are consequences and where professionalism is expected, when you have to face someone face to face, try not to attack them on a personal and unwarranted basis, even if you disagree with them. Calling them things like ‘unmotivated’, ‘selfish’, and ‘stupid,’ doesn’t work in the real business world, and you often end up marginalized and rejected.
Orca Flotta
Apr 5th, 2011
Calling them things like ‘unmotivated’, ‘selfish’, and ‘stupid,’ doesn’t work in the real business world, and you often end up marginalized and rejected.
But you and your useless n00b buddies are indeed unmotivated, selfish and stupid. With your overly long posting, that just proves how weak your reasoning is, you just marginalized yourself. Every oldbie can tell you, even if they are no content creators, they don’t have much time to waste in SL to just talk to other people. When we talk it’s mostly about events or products and our further plans. Or LL’s bad management.
There is nothing wrong with just hanging out in SL. Granted, many people have jobs and using SL for just recreational reasons, but why should anyone see those type as role model or target group for LL? Those ppl will soon leave SL because they don’t find anything to do in word. And now you want to penalize the few ppl who are giving them something to do? You want LL to force illogic, unusable viewers on us, you want LL to make live even harder for everybody who wants to build stuff or organize events, you want to punish everybody who shows a little bit of interest, dedication and ambition?
Sorrry to use this old american saying: Go away, SL doesn’t need you!
Orca Flotta
Apr 5th, 2011
… forgot to mention some basic facts for you, Paul:
SL is NOT a social platform! If ppl wanna socialize they can use crappy facebook or similar stuff.
SL is NOT a web application, the viewer is not a browser. If you wanna browse the net use Firefuck 4.0.
But SL is indeed a lot like RL. Always when it comes to politics (aka the interhuman, social interactions of ppl) it’s basically absolutely the same. It is ruled more or less by the strong, ambitious players. Your masses, the steady flow of uninterested n00bs, will have to deal with that. They must take what falls off by the wayside and shut up.
Also, to mention some stuff you got wrong as well: It’s almost never the oldbies who are griefers. They have better stuff to do than just wasting their time with unproductive, useless crap like grieving.
And, yes, oldbies do complain, they complain a lot. They are entitled to complain, based on their vast experiences in SL. Never confuse our complaints with whining, for it is two totally different things. By defnition we are not able to whine about anything in SL. Everything in SL is man made, caused by other humans. So we complain. You can only whine about the inevitable, i.e. forces of nature. If a hurrican destroys your house, if a freak flood wave flushes away your car, if your family dies in a burning inferno – then you whine.
If LL gives us bad management and stupid half-baked ideas – we complain!
Senban Babii
Apr 5th, 2011
I can see the worth in recruiting large numbers of n00bs actually and really it’s all down to LL’s ability to sell based on numbers. In order to make SL an attractive platform to other companies (such as their obsession with Facebook), they need to be able to show that the platform has high traffic, high concurrency or whatever.
Consider something related to LL’s obsession with FB. To those with FB pages, watch the amount of actual posts created by people on your friends list. The vast majority of people who created a FB page actually don’t do anything with it beyond posting maybe one or two photos and about three status updates before losing interest. And a high majority do nothing but occasionally sign in to snoop on their work colleagues or something similar. They’re not social networking but rather SnoopBooking. They don’t contribute anything at all to FB’s business model apart from contributing to the number of accounts, something that FB can use as a selling point when marketing its platform to other companies.
This is the problem that SL also faces. The vast majority of accounts are created and then abandoned after some minimal activity. The account still exists but isn’t accessed. The Lab is trying to gain numbers from associating with FB because it can then use those numbers as a selling point.
But the fact is that the vast majority of accounts will not contribute anything of substance to SL culture or content.
Consider another recent change that’s related. All new accounts are given the last name ‘Resident’. In truth though they should be given the last name ‘Tourist’. A ‘resident’ is someone who has engaged with and invested in the social structure of a place. Giving n00bs the name Resident is giving them something they’ve not earned. They are not residents until they start to contribute something, anything.
Consider one last thing. Those of us who have been around a while tend to overlook much because we have invested so much and for so long. But ask yourselves this. Imagine you were a brand new person with no experience of SL and you just this second created an account and logged in for the first time. You’ve no idea about alpha layers and redzones and lag and sim crossings and all that stuff. You’re just a fresh person standing there looking at this new place. Look around. Would you stay?
Romulan Reagan
Apr 5th, 2011
@Paul said
[Oldbies], let’s face it, are basically best at creating pyramid schemes, artificially driving up mainland prices, invading your privacy, and whining
I believe he is dead on with that and I’ve been here since 2005.
Yep
Apr 5th, 2011
“You’re just a fresh person standing there looking at this new place. Look around. Would you stay?”
Good question. Had I been involved with other video type games before discovering SL I would have known about lag (or what it’s like without lag) and had something to compare how well SL functions . So yes knowing about other games/platforms, I would have logged right off and deleted the viewer and never came back within minutes of being stuck in lag or bad teleports.
I do not know about others, but for me the lag and other issues have become worse and worse since 2006. Many thousands of dollars worth of new computers and upgrades to make the older computers work, I should have my head looked at for spending so much money trying to make something(second life) that is broken, work for me.
On the positive side, I have been able to network with others who enjoy what I do and found other games or simulaters outside of SL that work flawless.
One would think after the amount of years SL has been around it would run better and have zero problems like the other games do.
So my use of SL is nothing more than a 3-D Google chat window.
BTW Go getem Tiger
.
Senban Babii
Apr 5th, 2011
Good point Yep, your previous experiences would give you a point of reference. It was similar for me although I’m sure we played different games. But just imagine you were a complete n00b who had no idea what lag or crashes and so on were. Don’t think about user interfaces or anything of that nature. Just basing your decision entirely on the content that met you when you arrived inworld as a fresh-faced n00b today. The environment you found yourself in. The activities available for you to take part in. The people around you and what they were saying.
Would you stay?
Because it’s those things that will keep someone logging in *despite* the technical issues, don’t you think?
Yep
Apr 5th, 2011
I stayed because at the time my 128 MB of ram video card work along with the 512 ram I was using with my old pent.III computer was working just fine. By the time SL slid to a halt that even my Quad processer with 8 gigs of ram on win 7 64 bit and a gtx 250 graphics card with another gig of ram can barely run, I had made friends and other contacts. Like in Google chat, I log into SL just to chat and socialize. As for the other activities, I attempt to try them, get mad and think ” why did i even bother to try” and either log out or go back to standing around chatting.
This was just posted after crashing four times just now trying to leave one sim that only had the owner standing in it. I did have a nice conversation with the sim owner so not a total loss .
Senban Babii
Apr 5th, 2011
*cough*
i7 920 12 giggles of RAM, gtx 480 and so on
But I digress. The problem you’re highlighting is that the operating requirements of SL may be higher than the average user can handle or afford. This is an interesting point and as I type this I don’t know what the outcome will be. Let’s compare SL’s system requirements to say EVE.
http://secondlife.com/support/system-requirements/
http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=124
Now EVE seems to require slightly higher system specs but in all fairness the software is more demanding although it also runs better. My point is that if people want a high quality experience they need high quality computer bocksies. So how do we address that for that n00b on his fresh first day?
Consider this too. EVE has just discontinued support for SSE instruction sets. Yet the game is so compelling and people want the better experiences that they keep upgrading and coming back for more. Why don’t we see this with SL? Why are people not being compelled by this particular piece of cyberspace?
If there are more things to do, if the experience is compelling, people will upgrade. But if people are simply logging into SL to use it as a glorified chatroom then they would be better served by Yahoo messenger because to all intents and purposes they’d get the same value and wouldn’t need expensive computer bocksies.
But if LL is going to be targeting hordes of fresh-faced n00bs to come along, they’ll have to aim the system requirements at the lowest common denominator and that means the average resident’s technical experience will never be up to much.
But that’s not insurmountable! If the experience is compelling enough, if the experience draws you in enough, you will forgive a great deal of technical issues. It’s a trade-off between benefits and disbenefits. The trick is to make the benefits outweigh the disbenefits and that means a more active user experience and frankly, as I’ve argued with several of the ivory-tower monkeys, a large part of that is down to LL to provide, not the average resident. It’s not down to the residents to save their company and product. Sadly they just sat there and picked fleas off each other’s bottoms so I stopped trying.
I’d love to add more but right now I’m supposed to be writing a bunch of javascript regular expressions so unless someone wants to do it for me, I’ll have to pick up later
PS Sorry for all these walls of text
paul
Apr 5th, 2011
ss
paul
Apr 5th, 2011
@ Orca:
As a 4 year SL resident, nautical content builder, and part time sailor, I have to say I am actually thrilled to finally be flamed by the great Orca Flotta. But why didn’t you call me stupid for being an American male like you usually do when you have nothing of actual substance to say??? lmaooooo
Orca, you are wrong: whining and flaming like you people do on a routine basis gets you nowhere in the real world. I imagine that is why you all spend so much time in SL…you are not held accountable for that kind of behavior.
regarding “social platforms”, I addressed this point in my second post:
“I am sorry I do not know your exacting definitions of terms like “social platform” let me rephrase: most people come into SL to talk to other people. better?”
“Sorrry to use this old american saying: Go away, SL doesn’t need you!”
Of course it doesn’t need me. It doesn’t need you either…it doesn’t need anyone but paying customers, as it is a commercial business. That was my point =]
@Senban…exactly right. =]
Yep
Apr 5th, 2011
“i7 920 12 giggles of RAM, gtx 480 and so on ”
I am guessing you have about 3000 USD invested in a machine like this.
The average user should not have to take out a second mortgage to be able to log into a program
12 g of ram? I thought 8 was the limit. So I can add more?
Senban Babii
Apr 5th, 2011
@Yep
I’ve got 12 gigabobs of RAM sitting in an X-58 Pro E motherboard. CM Storm Scout case with a transparent side and all the little cabley things are illuminated. 3TB of hard drives and all the other geeky trimmings you can imagine. Imagine a Borg cube populated by angry Daleks hanging in orbit and you’ve got the idea
Oh and Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit can handle….well see for yourself
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7
But no you’re correct, the average user shouldn’t need something like this to log into SL. But seriously, you should see what SL looks like and moves like with every dial turned up to eleven
The problem is that SL has to cater to the average user’s hardware and that means at the lower end of the scale. And that means that the actual software can’t really be up to much. If we want a better SL experience we have to realise that a large part of that comes down to having better hardware.
Edna
Apr 6th, 2011
One phrase would fix SL – Throwback
The term “Throwback” used to be a bad thing like when you went to Walmart and saw some dude walking around with a mullet and black Rush concert tee shirt on. Now it is the in thing. As in Pepsi throwback to real sugar.
LL needs to dump all the improvements and throwback. Re-release the original viewer and do a database restore to February 2006.
Those were the days when SL was exciting and fun. We were flying around and caging noobs as they attempted to build on their First Land, bad mouthing Anshe, fighting over whether the sheep store or SLStreet was better, Profky was writing for the Herald and spewing nonsense against the fetid inner core, Liam Kino was building sims for movie releases and hosting technology fairs, Meteversed was hosting tech Fridays, and you could fly around orientation island with a wanker four times normal size hanging out and not get banned. Those were the days and if LL are smart, they’ll take SL back to that place.
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 6th, 2011
@ paul
You didn’t say anything that contradicts any of my points, and your argument is very weak as it mostly resorts to insults to my character.
Ah, my mistake. Guess you can’t take a hint. Here, let me spell it out for you:
“would have more of my sympathy if they hadn’t have turned SL into an expensive, capitalist pigsty filled with hacker nonsense like emerald viewer and that redzone thing.
“Emerald Viewer wasn’t associated with any big-bucks businesses in SL, and RedZone was an example of some crafty computer criminal exploiting the fears of said content creators. Most of the big-name businesses shunned RedZone once it was discovered it was a scam. Prices haven’t really risen that much since the old days – instead, quality has risen exponentially and prices have, at most, gone up 50% since 2005. If you wanna talk about a capitalist pigsty, look back when Scion, Nissan, Dell, Best Buy, and all those other “corporate pigs” were investing big money into SL. Those days are over. The only people bothering to make content anymore are those of us that don’t really care much for incomes – we just do it because it entertains us and generates some petty cash. Hell, if I build something and people want to pay money for it, who are you to say it’s wrong? I’m exchanging a product for a very small amount of money. I’d make more money selling lemonade. Should we also ban lemonade because people are paying more for it than they did back in 1990?”
There you go – one of many examples I could put here proving that I refuted your argument, and you have yet to do anything but restate it and claim I rely on exclusively ad hominem arguments. (Y’know, kind of like what the church does when scientists and non-believers disprove their ancient theories.)
If LL made a product that captured and retained the flow of noobs more effectively and made their experience easier and more fun, then it would not matter at all if all the same conditions they set led the old timers to disappear, including your car making buddies. If retaining more noobs and improving their experience made money for LL, then why wouldn’t they do it?
Ignoring your failure to explain why it would not matter if the content creators left, let me point out that this question must be rhetorical, because there is no way for LL to make money off of “retaining more noobs and improving their experience”.
News flash: noobs don’t magically make LL money. On a rare occasion one will pick up a premium account (like a complete dunce, I might add) or deposit some cash to buy some land or clean out a 1L resale shop (which would be quite popular in your fantasy no-business world) but this is far from the norm. In most cases, noobs will drain money off of other players by means of money trees, camping chairs, etc. and use it to buy cheap, copybotted junk, then parade it around like it’s the best thing in the world, thus scaring off more potential residents.
So yes, if LL could somehow monetize the stream of noobs trying out Second Life, it would be fantastic for them, and I would leave to let them pander to their uneducated newborns to pump up their payroll. Their platform would be horrid and it would take a marketing miracle to keep people coming, but I’d bet they would do it in an instant. However, they can’t, and they won’t.
SL would and could continue without ANY current residents or their creations. New content is always being generated by new residents.
Okay, so let me get this clear here. Noobs generating content is OK because they’re not land barons or greedy capitalist pigs. Their content is abysmal and/or copybotted (i.e. stolen from said capitalists), but they create it. However, once they get to a point of capitalizing on their creations and becoming an unofficial “content creator”, they are no longer welcome because they join the legions of businesses that, you claim, suck SL dry? Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t that just make SL a noob-only environment? What kind of person would want to join a game built from shoebox casinos on mainland property cluttered with plywood cubes falling from the sky?
Actually, content builders like your autobuilders are lucky that real professionals don’t take more of an interest in SL. Go check out the cars made by A.M. Radio that he gives away for free…if he made the same kind of cars your friends made as a ‘professional Second Life business”, they would be out of business in a week.
I looked around and couldn’t find any. Was it because they’re typical freebie junk? If he made quality, sculpted, professionally-scripted cars with all sorts of paint themes, add-ons, etc. (you know, sort of like the Dominus that still sells for over L$2,000) then I would be surprised if he gave them away for free.
I’m not sure why you put “professional Second Life business”. Do you make US$40,000 a year? I would say that someone who makes enough money to live off of it – albeit barely – qualifies as running a “professional Second Life business”.
SL businesspeople are choosing to play against a loaded deck. Freemarket? you aren’t serious are you? God bless them if they are successful, but you do realize how rare even their kind of success is? and how tenuous it really is?
Do you know what a free-market economy is?
A free market is a market in which there is no economic intervention and regulation by the state, except to enforce taxes, private contracts, and the ownership of property. – Wikipedia
LL does not regulate business in SL except to force upload fees and Marketplace commissions (taxes) and land ownership (ownership of property). Private contracts are still enforceable by real life court systems. LL does not enforce anything else. In fact, they barely investigate interpersonal contract breaches (such as failed deliveries) unless it’s a very large amount. I would say that falls under a free-market economy.
Like you go on to say, SL businesses have a considerable barrier to entry and can be overtaken quickly by a crafty entrepreneur. But wait – that’s also a trait of free-market economies. Oops! Proved my point there, thanks.
Nelson, I am sorry that you are so vested in such a shaky (virtual) reality, and the seeming safety and lack of jeopardy it entails. If it all goes south, let me give you some advice: in the real world, where there are consequences and where professionalism is expected, when you have to face someone face to face, try not to attack them on a personal and unwarranted basis, even if you disagree with them. Calling them things like ‘unmotivated’, ‘selfish’, and ‘stupid,’ doesn’t work in the real business world, and you often end up marginalized and rejected.
Ah, because I act in real life just like I do on the internet, right? I don’t know why you keep apologizing to me – I don’t consider it a problem to correct you in these matters, since I’m doing a small part to keep SL running as it should. But yes, you are right, if it does go south, I should learn to keep my mouth shut – after all, calling my several employees in my small business “unmotivated”, “selfish”, and “stupid” really does seem to have me, the boss, become marginalized and rejected. :3 Oh, right, you meant my other job, the one where I am an underling… have you done jury duty lately? Talking nice about a defendant during a criminal trial doesn’t win cases, sorry. Thanks for the advice, though.
nautical content builder
Are you one of those people who sells buoys on the Marketplace for L$200, no-copy, and 30-some prims each?
If you had provided your actual name, it would’ve been easier to prove this, but whatever. Posting anonymously really does give your argument a nice foundation of trustworthiness.
whining and flaming like you people do on a routine basis gets you nowhere in the real world.
Are we talking government or corporations?
If we’re talking government, then forget it, they do what they want and us lowly citizens generally get shafted one way or another.
If we’re talking corporations, you have clearly never been involved in business of any kind. A business typically creates a product or service to fit the needs of a market (customers it sells shit to). If a customer is “whining” that they want product X, no corporation would continue selling product Y, which is a variant of X that nobody seems to want to buy. The overhead of all that equipment needed to manufacture products or maintain services needs to be paid off somehow, and if that company sees a vein of cash in something that customers are asking for, typically they’ll jump right on it. Hence, whining does get you places. (See the phrase “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”.)
Of course it doesn’t need me. It doesn’t need you either…it doesn’t need anyone but paying customers, as it is a commercial business. That was my point =]
How does it intend to attract paying customers? “Hey! We’ve got this cool product from 2003 that nobody’s supporting anymore. Yeah, some guy made a bunch of beds back in 2007 and you can have sex on them – cool, huh? Hey, check out this new creation we made, it’s called Kart 1.0. You can drive around and everything! Hot shit, eh?”
It doesn’t need anyone. At all. If they wanted, they could keep it a private little experiment for themselves. However, they LOVE it when people pay them money for virtual land and premium accounts, and they LOVE it when people waste time and basically build up their own game for them with new creations. As compensation, the consumers get entertainment and the creators get a bit of money. Product grows, that’s it.
In your little crack-pot world, LL would generate new content on its own. Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the past 5 years, you would know that LL-created content is – in a word – bad. Flip through your Library sometime. Most of that is Linden-built. Now go to the Second Life website – almost everything shown off to advertise their platform is – guess what? – resident-made. Even Lindens know that they can’t keep SL going without resident contributions.
@ Senban Babii
CM Storm Scout case with a transparent side and all the little cabley things are illuminated.
Are they blue? You know that blue LEDs keep your computer cooler, right?
Consider another recent change that’s related. All new accounts are given the last name ‘Resident’. In truth though they should be given the last name ‘Tourist’. A ‘resident’ is someone who has engaged with and invested in the social structure of a place. Giving n00bs the name Resident is giving them something they’ve not earned. They are not residents until they start to contribute something, anything.
I just have to point this out, because this is just so ironic that it makes my head spin.
You remember those car creators I told you about that live off of SL right now? One of them got this email the other day:
Congratulations! You have a new rank in secondlife.
From: Lexie Linden
To: XXXX XXXXXXXXX
Sent: 04-01-2011 01:02 PM
Add Lexie Linden to Friends
Ignore Lexie Linden
Congratulations, XXXX XXXXXXXXX!
As the result of your contributions to the community, you have earned a new rank. Your new rank is Resident.
We appreciate your efforts and hope you will continue to be an active member of the community.
Thanks!
The secondlife Team
Yeah, after 5 years of work he got pushed back down to the level of a n00b. I think.
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 6th, 2011
@ myself, because I am a typocat who makdesd the typos at 1 in the morning
I’m not sure why you put “professional Second Life business”.
Meant to ask why you put that in quotes.
Senban Babii
Apr 6th, 2011
@Nelson
”
“Are they blue? You know that blue LEDs keep your computer cooler, right?
I did have green and red but it made it look like a Christmas tree. Now they’re all green for that interior of a Borg cube look
Actually I wanted to find some little Lego Borg and put them all round the inside in little alcoves but so far I can’t find any
The whole idea of rankings in SL has potential but it needs to be merit based, not based on numbers of hours logged in, numbers of posts made on forums and so on. People do love to level up their “characters” (using the term loosely) and gain new abilities. I’ve always been amazed that SL didn’t incorporate such a levelling system. As it is, a first hour n00b has access to the exact same things as a six year resident who builds quality content or runs a popular club or whatever. Sorry to use EVE for comparison again but consider how access to the bigger and better ships etc is restricted by having to build various skill trees over extended periods. N00bs should have enough ability to keep them interested but if they want more, they should have to have gained a certain amount of time and experience inworld, gaining new capabilities over time. Certainly I absolutely don’t think just anyone should be able to start running businesses or selling content. There should be some kind of business licence required, gained over time and which could be taken away if certain rules aren’t followed. That’s probably a different discussion though.
Orca Flotta
Apr 6th, 2011
finally be flamed by the great Orca Flotta. But why didn’t you call me stupid for being an American male like you usually do when you have nothing of actual substance to say??? lmaooooo
Ya, keep on laughing, ignoramous. You have just proven to be one of those stupid american males. Wanna hear my reason? (Although I’m guessing you stopped reading nowand are already thinking of some snarly reply.
1) You are probably an avid reader of the SLsailing forum. And you are probably one of the USS fanbois. And, as most of those guys do, you just don’t get it. I tell you for the umpteenth time I did never flame anyone in any forum! Period. And you ppl keep on attacking me for the same non-reason, over and over again. That’s tiring. And that’s why I asked Nomad to please delete my account. So you can go now and have fun ín the moribund forum.
2) I always have something of substance to say (if you lot let me that is, and don’t attack me and make me waste my time in stupid little fights for all the wrong reasons instead of reading and comprehending my reasoning), so your reply here just proves that you are as least as useless as I am. But in contrary to you I’m not a nitpicking meanie.
Orca, you are wrong: whining and flaming like you people do on a routine basis gets you nowhere in the real world.
Jeeze, you really don’t get it.
I am neither whining nor flaming. Boy, start your brain. The only one whining and flaming in this thread so far is YOU!
Also, this isn’t the real world but SL. Whining and flaming gets you nowhere in neither realm, right. But did I ever say it gets me somewhere or I do wanna go somewhere? No, I didn’t. I’m just sharing my opinion, feel free to discuss. Your brainless attacks won’t get you anywhere neither.
Why do I get this stupid notion that I’m feeeding a troll here?
I imagine that is why you all spend so much time in SL…you are not held accountable for that kind of behavior.
Right, we don’t. BUT I’m in SL exactly how I am in RL and I’m always aware of my actions and behaviour.
What I read from your remark is that you are just a bit jealous because you’re the odd kid out, the one that doesn’t get the idea, the one with less fun then all the cool and intellligent kids. You are pissed off with SL (for all the wrong reasons I might add) and now desperately trying to find someone to put the blame on. Sorry, you fail.
“Sorrry to use this old american saying: Go away, SL doesn’t need you!”
Of course it doesn’t need me. It doesn’t need you either…it doesn’t need anyone but paying customers, as it is a commercial business. That was my point =]</i<
Wrong. LL is a comercial business, SL is a platform. One you are obviously unable to adapt to, recognize it for what it is and enjoy it. Let's compare SL to the sport of football (soccer if you're american): FIFA is the commercial business, football is just football. You don't like that game? Fine. But please don't attack the players for doing quite fine in that game and having fun with it. Football doesn't need you, it will be around for generations to come, as it always was, Same with SL.
Sure FIFA / Linden Lab will change the "product" Football / Second Life and sure we will either embrace those changes or complain ("bitch, whine, moan" in brainless speek) about it. Some of us will leave, some will stay, new players will enter the arena.
That's all just natural and no reason at all to attack single players.
Orca Flotta
Apr 6th, 2011
Paul wrote:
Actually, content builders like your autobuilders are lucky that real professionals don’t take more of an interest in SL. Go check out the cars made by A.M. Radio that he gives away for free…if he made the same kind of cars your friends made as a ‘professional Second Life business”, they would be out of business in a week.
Nelson replied.
I looked around and couldn’t find any. Was it because they’re typical freebie junk? If he made quality, sculpted, professionally-scripted cars with all sorts of paint themes, add-ons, etc. (you know, sort of like the Dominus that still sells for over L$2,000) then I would be surprised if he gave them away for free.
I’m not interested in cars but I found a very nice looking powerboat by AM Radio. Too bad it’s super primmy and even worse it’s got no engine. Almost 300 prims for a piece of deco? I imagine his cars would fall in the same category.
But that’s besides the point because AM Radio is a very good builder, an artisan. That’s right, his sims and installations are art, no business. With 300 prims a builder can create the most exciting shtuffz. With a 32 prims limit for actually working vehicles it becomes a whole different ballgame.
So Paul fails once again with his example. He compares apples to oranges.
BTW, AM Radio is an oldbie, so acccording to Paul’s logic he has no place in SL anymore and should be gone. Talking about contradictory statements
Romulan Reagan
Apr 6th, 2011
@Orca Flotta said
I always have something of substance to say
no, you don’t.
Orca Flotta
Apr 6th, 2011
no, you don’t.
3 options for me to react to this attempt to insult / humour me:
1) the decision if what I say is of any substance, is best left to me. So if I find it substantial it’s enough to justify my statement.
2) of course you had to get hung up on the most insignificant part of my post. Can’t you find any real arguments? Do you really wanna join the ranks of trolls like this “Paul” character?
3) yeah, you got me there … /me awkwardly blushes and giggles
Chose which one suits you best or – since I have my generous day – go ahead and keep them all. I don’t care either way.
paul
Apr 6th, 2011
talking to you guys is like watching Animal Planet for few months then
actually going to the zoo and smelling the cages for yourself. It is fun, but I feel a little bit dirty!
Nelson, yes yes yes, I MUST be one of those kind of builders.. we suck. We aren’t the REAL kind of builders who take SL seriously and make $40,000 a year. How silly of us to try our hand at slapping some prims together and making a few L$ to pay our tier on an online video game. We need to get serious about our virtual lives and come up with something important like a chicken breeding pyramid scheme.
Nelson, if 40,000$ year is a successful business to you, and AM Radio’s builds are cheap freebie knockoffs, and SL is an actual free market, then hey, what can I say, you win the argument!
Orca…look at you! you are so smart! I LOVE Mark Twain White! He is the best thing to EVER happen to Second Life! How could you not love dozens of Stepford Wives sims populated by happy serene citizens?…it so creative, edgy, and wonderful.
You are the same person in RL as you are in SL? really? how does that work for you?
I am glad you two found such a stable, profitable, and fulfilling reality as SL!
Orca Flotta
Apr 6th, 2011
Orca…look at you! you are so smart! I LOVE Mark Twain White! He is the best thing to EVER happen to Second Life! How could you not love dozens of Stepford Wives sims populated by happy serene citizens?…it so creative, edgy, and wonderful.
You don’t expect me to get that message or do you? I’m not a hufe fan of MTW and god knows I had my fair share of fights with him … like every thinking member of the community had. That’s it. MTW wasn’t the subject of my argument. I suspected you to be one of his fanbois but since you so conveniently refuse to give any hints about your real SL avie all I can do is guess. So did I guess right? Obviously not, since now you turned around again and joined the rankes of USS haters.
So for me, my conclusion is this: you are a slimy slippery hater troll. And that is not flaming but a conclusion based upon your behaviour in this forum.
You are the same person in RL as you are in SL? really? how does that work for you?
Thx for asking, works quite fine for me. It’s not the easiest life to always stand tall, don’t bend over and refuse to being phugged by idiots like you … but at least I kept my integrity and can look at myself in the mirror. You otoh shouldn’t try that.
BTW, making 40.000 US$/year from a stupid internet game is indeed a very successful business in my eyes. I wouldn’t spit on it. But AFAK it was you who was so vehemently arguing against those business types, making so much money from SL. Now they are not successful enough?
Honestly, what are you smoking?
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 6th, 2011
@ paul
You’ve passed the troll mark on my self-conflicting-ometer.
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
Let’s review. I made the argument that LL would perhaps be better served by making SL more user friendly for noobs, who would then boost the economy of SL overall by buying things and making new things, and that perhaps it was a bad strategy to worry too much about the interests of a vocal minority of oldbies who have built a tenuous living out of SL.
In response:
Orca Flotta has called me Stupid, a useless noob, unmotivated, selfish, slimy, a hater, a drug addict, weak, long winded, a USS fanboi, a failure, brainless, jealous, and pissed off.
Nelson has called me: Stupid, diagnosed with a mental condition, selfish, insane, a learning deficiency, and that those of ‘my ilk” surey living in a ‘crack pot world.’
They both also called me a ‘troll’. If I understand the the word correctly, it means that you are just causing trouble and drama rather then contributing to a productive online conversation. So my question is, does all the name calling that Orca and Nelson engage in because they do not agree with my argument constitute accepted dialog on this forum, such that I am the one who is a troll and they are the reasonable ones? hmmm…
At least Nelson has an argument. I don’t agree with it. I think that conceptualizing the SL economy in anyway as analogous to the real world is a dangerous proposition. Who would invest their professional time and money in something as unstable and rigged as SL? And for what, $40.000 a year? If you don’t agree with me, fine… does that make me stupid, selfish, insane, etc? really?
Or maybe, part of the problem is that if you are so vested in this virtual world emotionally and financially, and you actually KNOW how tenuous that virtual world really is, it is just kind of unbearable to be reminded of that fact. Ergo it is much easier to shriek at me and call me names =].
Nelson, you completely misunderstood my point about AM Radio. That guy clearly is as close to a professional graphic designer in SL as they come. He builds sims as art installations, and clearly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about making money or the “SL Economy”.. and, if you have the patience to explore his beautiful sims for a little while, you get rewarded with free builds, such as the boat that Orca mentioned. Imagine that, a sim in SL that is not constructed to look like a god awful shopping mall dispensing cheap goods and freebies. My actual point was not that he competes with your friends…he clearly could care less about that. But if he did decide to do that, and teamed up with a professional programmer… his product would destroy those of the talented amateurs that constitute the majority of the builders and scripters in SL.
Thankfully, he doesn’t do that, and instead seems to just enjoy SL as a creative outlet and a social platform., and he welcomes other residents to enjoy them as well if they like. If you meet him, he is very friendly. Oooops! I missused the jargon again… I am sorry..i didn’t mean “social platform” .. i meant… a platform for social interaction…i mean a forum for social interaction..social activity in a platform.. a place to talk to other people? nah… f*ck u and your lEet appropriation of terminology… a social platform works just fine a word…sorry to be an insane stupid selfish unmotivated fanboi brainless pissed off slimy mentally ill troll.
ok back to work for me!
Yep
Apr 6th, 2011
“You don’t expect me to get that message or do you? I’m not a hufe fan of MTW and god knows I had my fair share of fights with him … like every thinking member of the community had. ”
MTW is a power hungry moron. If something is being put together, if he cannot be in charge of it, he trys to destroy it. His little empire in the blake sea is falling apart as more and more people get tired of his nonsense.
“if you don’t follow my rules even in the linden sims.. I will ban you from over 40 sims.” Is his banner broke? I do not know, there is nothing MTW has that I care about.
Funny I see this jerks name in this forum right after attending a meeting against MTW policies governing the blake (lag) sea.
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
“MTW is a power hungry moron. If something is being put together, if he cannot be in charge of it, he trys to destroy it. ”
the most accurate thing said on this thread yet!