Could Sims 2 Baby BBQ Seriously Help SL Survive?
by Alphaville Herald on 01/04/11 at 12:14 pm
Or will Second Life users' hate and fear of change destroy the metavese?
by Omelet ex-Linden, concerned shareholder
Recently I was talking with my last two inside-the-Lab contacts - Sensipoo and Hubris Linden - about Second Life's trajectory, which inevitably ends in oblivion. As usual, Sensipoo Linden broke into tears at the thought of criticism of Second Life. Meanwhile Hubris Linden and I pondered the words of Linden Lab founder Philip Rosedale, who once warned SL's most dedicated users, “Try not to cling too tightly to what we have now... [coming] changes are sometimes going to be disruptive and painful.”
point and click navigation now - BBQ later?
Hubris reminded me that disruptive and painful change has been the key to destroying all player trust in the Linden Lab, so more of the same would certainly help. But what could the Lab do beyond Facebook integration and point-and-click avatar navigation to save Second Life - and upset current players? Then it hit us. Second Life needs to copy The Sims 2 with special Baby BBQs to meet the needs of the seriously underserved virtual cannibalism market.
After watching a few YouTube videos, the path forward was clear. Hubris Linden promised me that soon all Linden Homes will include realistic grills suitable for disposing of prim babies and Second Life will be saved - unless the current players make Sensipoo Linden cry again.
had enough
Apr 6th, 2011
MarkTwain White aint shit without his lips around Blondin Linden’s cock.
Orca Flotta
Apr 6th, 2011
@ Yep & Paul:
As said earlier, I can’t and won’t agree or disagreee with you on the part of MTW and his little estate. Neither his person nor his politics are subjects of this discussion. And I refuse to discuss community internal stuff with shady anonymous posters who hang around in the dark corners of SL’s diaspora.
@ Paul:
LOL, excuse me for loling out loud, but that was actually the worst summary possible … ever! Full of lies and badly ripped out of context semi-truths.
Go on, young man, make a complete ass of yourself by convincing yourself of how righteous your silly argument is and how badly we victimized you.
Just FYI, you are off my christmas list.
Enough time wasted on this bullshit for today, me has stuff to do in world. Bubye
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
at Orca:
I am not complaining that you victimized me. Where did I you see that? I am pointing out that calling people names is not an argument.
At least Nelson sort of had an argument. He says that despite my characterization, SL is a free market where can and do make a viable living, and that contrary to my assertions, the oldbies contribute productively to that process. I don’t agree, but I am not calling him names over it.
You say I lied and my argument is bad. How exactly is it lies? and how is it bad? Can you offer a counter argument without calling me names? Am I a ‘troll’ for asking you to actually mount a constructive argument rather then just shrieking hysterically at people you don’t agree with and then stomping away like a spoiled child?
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 6th, 2011
@ paul
I usually don’t argue with trolls, but this just has to be said.
Let’s review. I made the argument that LL would perhaps be better served by making SL more user friendly for noobs, who would then boost the economy of SL overall by buying things and making new things, and that perhaps it was a bad strategy to worry too much about the interests of a vocal minority of oldbies who have built a tenuous living out of SL.
And I proved, in so many words, that noobs are not as profitable as long-time users. They don’t dump money into SL and their creations are not very good on average. Sure, like I said, there’s the rare one that picks up a premium account, dumps their life savings into L$, or is actually a professional modeler/designer/whatever-the-fuck before they join SL, but the vast majority of accounts created are by everyday idiots that end up fueling the copybotted “black market”.
Orca Flotta has called me Stupid, a useless noob, unmotivated, selfish, slimy, a hater, a drug addict, weak, long winded, a USS fanboi, a failure, brainless, jealous, and pissed off.
Nelson has called me: Stupid, diagnosed with a mental condition, selfish, insane, a learning deficiency, and that those of ‘my ilk” surey living in a ‘crack pot world.’
Hello, welcome to the internet! Have a nice day :3
They both also called me a ‘troll’. If I understand the the word correctly, it means that you are just causing trouble and drama rather then contributing to a productive online conversation. So my question is, does all the name calling that Orca and Nelson engage in because they do not agree with my argument constitute accepted dialog on this forum, such that I am the one who is a troll and they are the reasonable ones? hmmm…
A troll can be one of many things. Someone who constantly contradicts himself (you) can be called a troll. Someone who states an argument and ignores all conflicting evidence (you) can be called a troll. Someone who makes a stupid mistake then claims they were just trying to push our buttons (you) can be called a troll.
At least Nelson has an argument. I don’t agree with it. I think that conceptualizing the SL economy in anyway as analogous to the real world is a dangerous proposition.
Why? SL is a free-market economy. I’ve already proven that. To back up and simply say “well, you can’t make that connection” and then parade around your tired, disproven argument is completely illogical.
Who would invest their professional time and money in something as unstable and rigged as SL?
Somebody who can’t get a job in today’s shitty economy perpetuated by feel-good handout governments wanting to support the unskilled with free money? (Hint: this sounds a lot like your noob-friendly world.)
And for what, $40.000 a year? If you don’t agree with me, fine… does that make me stupid, selfish, insane, etc? really?
It’s stupid to keep restating your point like this and ignoring all contradicting evidence (see religion). It’s selfish to claim you are right by pretending your argument wasn’t blown to smithereens. It’s insane to keep trying to make a point here in these comments and deal with us nuts.
Or maybe, part of the problem is that if you are so vested in this virtual world emotionally and financially, and you actually KNOW how tenuous that virtual world really is, it is just kind of unbearable to be reminded of that fact. Ergo it is much easier to shriek at me and call me names =].
Oh no, believe me, I am quite assured that SL is on the verge of death. It’ll take just one stupid move by LL to kick us out and ruin their own platform.
Nelson, you completely misunderstood my point about AM Radio. That guy clearly is as close to a professional graphic designer in SL as they come. He builds sims as art installations, and clearly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about making money or the “SL Economy”.. and, if you have the patience to explore his beautiful sims for a little while, you get rewarded with free builds, such as the boat that Orca mentioned. Imagine that, a sim in SL that is not constructed to look like a god awful shopping mall dispensing cheap goods and freebies. My actual point was not that he competes with your friends…he clearly could care less about that. But if he did decide to do that, and teamed up with a professional programmer… his product would destroy those of the talented amateurs that constitute the majority of the builders and scripters in SL.
Well, even if he scripted his boat, it wouldn’t work because it’s too many prims. And if he did and started to compete, he’d be one of those selfish, capitalist pigs, remember? The ones that you don’t like?
Thankfully, he doesn’t do that, and instead seems to just enjoy SL as a creative outlet and a social platform., and he welcomes other residents to enjoy them as well if they like. If you meet him, he is very friendly. Oooops! I missused the jargon again… I am sorry..i didn’t mean “social platform” .. i meant… a platform for social interaction…i mean a forum for social interaction..social activity in a platform.. a place to talk to other people? nah… f*ck u and your lEet appropriation of terminology… a social platform works just fine a word…sorry to be an insane stupid selfish unmotivated fanboi brainless pissed off slimy mentally ill troll.
SL isn’t a social platform, but okay. Call it what you wish. Just don’t call it good.
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
@had enough:
I get the sentiment, but I am not sure if that is completely true. It might be part of it, but the other part of what makes a person have some political weight in SL is if they can and do spend a ton of their own money on a video game (which naturally pleases those who own the video game company), and then spend hours a day watching over it obsessively to protect their interests. You can’t fault Blondin Linden or Mark Twain for that. Whether what they cook up together is in the best interests of everyone else or future noobs is another matter all together and goes to my original point.
Yep
Apr 6th, 2011
dancing around while singing ” Go Tiger… Go Tiger… Go Tiger Go!!!”
Reader
Apr 6th, 2011
Nelson,
One simple observation – may be worth considering:
You’re beginning to rant and rationalize a bit too much like Prok.
Work on that…
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
@nelson.
First let me say i appreciate that you are willing to argue with a troll. Your graciousness knows know bounds.
“Noobs are not as profitable as oldbies” (sorry i don’t know how to make italics in here, I apologize for the paraphasing)
That is true, so long as the majority of noobs leave the program after one try. Imagine if just 20% more noobs stuck around a bit longer and started to build stuff, buy stuff, and sell stuff? The fact that such noobs are ‘rare’ supports my point. LL should make the experience more appealing so that they become ‘less rare.’ Also, you seem to characterize a group of oldbies that has always existed and is never augmented. SOME noobies become oldbies dont they? I have a 2008 born-on date… I sell enough product to cover a good percentage of my tier. Does that make me a noob or an oldbie? (can you or Orca answer that question without insulting me? give it a try!) I would submit that the opinion that oldbies are or will be the only ones that create anything of value is a bit dubious.
“A work in SL because I can’t get a job due to the economy”
Ahh well at least you realize that it is not as ideal as a real job. I know other SL businesspeople who have told me that the pressures of the real world are part of why they work in SL due to physical or mental handicaps. For myself, I build to amuse myself, and if it helps me pay tier, all the better. The second it starts to be stressful or burdensome, I remind myself that I have a RL job that involves real money rather then spacebux and is in an actual economy rather then a pretend one owned by a privately owned video game company that could fold at any minute and that allows other players to rip off my product whenever they want.
“It’s stupid to keep restating your point like this and ignoring all contradicting evidence (see religion)”
I wasn’t restated my point to make my point again. I restated my point to point out that you calling me stupid is not a valid answer to my point. In my opinion and personal experience, calling a $40,000 a year business that yields you $8,000 a year in actual money after expenses, while seemingly a paragon of success in SL, is not, in my opinion very successful by RL standards. By all means disagree with me, but I am not stupid or selfish for having this opinion.
As to religion, I worry when I see SL residents talk about SL as real place (as opposed to an artificial construction owned by a private company), which, on some level, makes SL “reality” and the Lindens “Gods.” The combination of that passion, emotion, and investiture people have in SL with the simple fact that it is run by a bunch of tech yuppies working in some cubicles in Silicon Valley makes this scene similar to the worst that religion has to offer. I bet the “Gods” LOL about all of us and our (seemingly life and death) Second Life issues after work while they have a beer.
“I am assured that SL is on the verge of death”
Good… that is the kind of perspective you need to wisely invest your time, emotion, and money.
“AM Radio’s boat is too many prims”
/me rolls eyes. Yes yes, the best vehicles in SL are certainly non-attachment vehicles. But once again that wasn’t my point.
My point is,(please read carefully this time) in my opinion, AM Radio is an example of someone who has graphic skills that are on a RL professional level. In the act of creating builds in SL seemingly for his own amusement, he textures prims in such a way that is superior to just about any of the ‘professional’ and commercial SL vehicle builders. My point was, imagine if someone with his kind of ability decided to spend the time and energy creating a vehicle business in SL. I don’t know cars much in SL, but I do know boats… with all due respect to Trudeau, AM Radios builds and textures are better then any commercial boat builder in SL…and he does it without even trying.
I think AM Radio is an example of the BEST of SL… creating cool things for people to experience without the power-mongering, crass capitalism, pyramid schemes, etc. What I would like to see is a video game that encourages more effectively what people like AM Radio (and also those of us who are lesser skilled as we make our silly little nautical buoys for sale for 50L) do.
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
Nelson, I just reread your post and I missed this nugget in my response:
“It’s insane to keep trying to make a point here in these comments and deal with us nuts”
we finally agree on something!!
Reader
Apr 6th, 2011
“SL isn’t a social platform, but okay. Call it what you wish.”
More commentary….
Life (amongst humans) is a social platform, therefore, life (interaction) in SL (created by humans) is thereby enabling communications with or in conjunction with expressed (demonstrable) creativity, which solidly defines SL as a “social platform”, no matter how you slice it.
Any multiplayer extension of a “true” video game can just as easily be called or defined as a “social platform” – SL is even MORE SO skewed towards that definition and it’s (apparently) not a video game in the classical sense – although some believe it to be so by way of self rationalization. But with those semantics aside, you can continue the debate, it’s interesting watch.
Paul
Apr 6th, 2011
@reader:
Cheers!
I have to admit that I use the expression ‘video game’ in an aggressive and rhetorical fashion to bring home what I regard as an important point: In the end Second Life is a commercial service owned by a for-profit company. Our (often considerable) emotional, social, spiritual, creative, economic, and time commitment to this social platform is at undertaken at our own risk, and just because it is your real world doesn’t mean that it won’t suddenly be pulled out from under you. Does anyone remember Excite! chat??
Orca Flotta
Apr 7th, 2011
@ Reader:
I’m sure Nelson was talking about what is known as social platforms nowadays, i.e. Facebook. And SL definately and fortunately isn’t anything like that.
@ Paul: You’re unbelievable, really. I’m about to tear my hairs out here with almost every sentence you’re hurling at us.
I won’t answer all of your accusations and insults now, since I’m sure you have again some carefully laid out traps installed, ready and waiting for me to trip in. That’s why I called your way of arguing slippery and slimey.
But know what? Okay, you win this! I guess I must apologize now. So I apologize for taking my SL to seriious. I apologize for my interest in this game and the people in it, friends and unfriendlies. I apologize for being happy and content. I apologize for my lack of cold blooded cynicism. I apologize for my lacking elegance when it comes to english rhetorics. I apologize for seeing exactly your errors and mistakes but being unable to point them out clearly enough so that even an arrogant idiot like you would understand.
And lastly I don’t apologize for thinking that you are an obnoxious internet bully.
Good bye …
/me stomping away like a spoiled child
paul
Apr 7th, 2011
@Orca
/me shrugs. What else could I expect from a European woman?
Orca Flotta
Apr 7th, 2011
@ Paul:
the same you could expect from any sane women anywhere; to steer away from senseless brutes like you. I dunno what my european heritage has to do with anything anyway. Try to stay on topic once and stop your smoke and mirrors (and vaseline) trickery.
But ok, let’s give it one more try. But I’ll take the same freedoms like you and will just ignore your questions and points and will instead just freely grab what I still have in memory.
Your initial idea of making SL even more n00b friendly is just plain bad. As if what LL did with the introduction of V2 wasn’t bad enough already, what else do you expect them to do? Kicking all content creators out? Yeah why not, let’s just keep the dummies in game, have us standing around on a green lawn or hang out on some orientation island … and chat all day … and leave SL after 3 days because we are bored. Is that your idea of a n00b friendly SL? An experience without an experience? No steep learning curve, no creativity, no effort needed. Cool, bring your friends and let’s enjoy this wonderful new world together.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 1-0
Come on, pants down, give us clear examples of why oldbies are so bad for SL. If possible something real, not just hurled wrong accusations of us grieving and having the super big financial empires.
My account (not that it’s any of your concern) is on less then 4000 L now, every n00b can be richer in a matter of seconds.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 2-0
Oldbies are not griefers. Griefing is done by stupid, uncreative boys of every age. The avies they use are indeed mostly only 1 day old and never being used again. Griefing is a question of the mindset, not of the age in game.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 3-0
I don’t know about you and how rich you are in RL but if any business in SL makes an annual profit of 40000 $ (your figure, not mine) I call it a damn success. I bet many people have regular jobs and earn less.
How you come to the equation that 40000 $ = 8000 $ in a later post is and probably will always stay a secret.
Anyway, even if a business creates the amount of 8000 $ it is a frigging success. It’s more than enough to pay tier and upload costs, not bad for a hobby. So damn freakin’ \o/ YAY! \o/.
I’d be happy to even have 8000 L.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 4-0
First you argued we oldbies are having the super big financial empires, only to tell Nelson at a later point that his entrepreneurial buddies are not successfull enough. That, Paul, is bad bad style. We already learned in school when we were little not to use such cheap tricks.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 5-0
Then you bring AM Radio into the game, as an example of where Nelson’s buddies could do better. And again you decide to ignore all counter arguments.
AM Radio doesn’t run a business.
AM Radio doesn’t need to deal with prim limits and manageabiity and handlling of his creations.
But you, in your arrogance, dismiss all those reasons and give us AM Radio as an example of how to run a successful business, second life, whatnot?
Again you didn’t realize how badly you were contradicting yourself there: AM Radiio is an oldbie and I bet he’s damned interested in his SL, not just a hanger n00b.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 6-0
At some point of this pseudo-discussion you argued we oldbies are taking SL too serious. Excuse me, how serious anyone takes their hobby is exclusively up to them, not for you to decide. Not everyone can and want to be such a non-chalant prick as you.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 7-0
On the other hand you dismissed our counterattack that you must be uninterested in SL. See, that makes you the griefer here. Ever heard of social grieving? That’s you, boy!
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 8-0
If I could be bothered re-reading all your garbage I’d easily find a dozen or so more points to score against you. But what for? For a silly pseudodiscussion about a silly non-topic like the future of SL? For showing some troublemaker how wrong he is in every aspect?
No, I’l take your own advice to heart and just blandly decide not to take things so seriously anymore, particularly not a bad apple like you.
paul
Apr 7th, 2011
@Orca:
i called you a “european female” because one of your favorite debate tactics when you get frustrated is to say people are wrong because you they are “american males.” In english we call that “sarcasm.”
Making SL more noob friendly is a bad idea? If SL could be better for noobs, couldn’t those $40,000 a year businesses turn into $41,000 a year business? That is quite the notion to say that a company such as LL should not improve their product to retain their product!
When did I ever say they should kick content creators out of the game?
Hmmm examples of a bad oldbies. Ok. How about the people that made ad farms? the real estate barons with their automated parcel buying software? People that buy entire sims and make shitty builds just to make malls, vendors, sex clubs, for a profit that are a blight on the landscape of SL. Little napoleons like Mark Twain White. There you go… enough examples?
Griefing. Yeah to grief doesn’t take ANY knowledge of SL at all, so anyone can do it! is that what you are saying? In anycase, what I actually said was not that oldbies were griefers….but that that SL should make a product where griefing, hacking, and copyboting is harder. For example get rid of alternate viewers.
AM Radio. LMAOOO Ok let me try to explain tis again, and I will go even slower this time so you can understand. I never said that AM Radio ran a successful business. I said that he was an excellent graphic designer, and that if he decided to run a business he would probably outcompete a lot of businesses that operate in SL. You and nelson should read that carefully a couple more times before you tell me again how AM Radio doesn’t actually run a business.
Plus, I never said that i wanted LL to ban Oldbies. What I said is, they should make a product that improves the noob experiences and that makes it harder to do things like grief, hack, pyramid scheme, which many oldbies excel at. My other point about oldbies was that often their whining and conservatism often seems to stifle any innovations that SL might try. As I said, I think AM Radio is an example of what is great about SL.
“First you argued we oldbies are having the super big financial empires, only to tell Nelson at a later point that his entrepreneurial buddies are not successfull enough. That, Paul, is bad bad style. We already learned in school when we were little not to use such cheap tricks.”
Nope. First I argued that some people run businesses that make it difficult for noobs to enjoy SL…for example the real estate brokers that drive up mainland prices. I also said that the number of people in SL that make actual real money to make a living is very small as a percentage of the people that play SL, or the noobs that try SL every day. This was to point out that people that do or try to make a living in SL are actually a small minority, despite how vocal they are. Nelson then tried to impress me with a ‘successful’ business that earned $40,000 a year, but after expenses, each person got $8,000 a year (or something). My point was not that that was a bad business, it sounds very successful by SL standards (and is thus in the very very small minority). By RL standards it is NOT a successful business.
Sure, take SL as seriously as you want..that is indeed your choice. All I was saying was maybe it would be prudent to consider your emotional and financial investment in a place that is run as a private for profit business and that could go out of business itself any day.
Thanks for the response Orca =], you even got through it calling me only one or two more bad names!!! look at you go!
Yep
Apr 7th, 2011
“Oldbies are not griefers. Griefing is done by stupid, uncreative boys of every age. The avies they use are indeed mostly only 1 day old and never being used again. Griefing is a question of the mindset, not of the age in game.”
Most of the griefers that I have met are noobs who found SL came to explore and became bored. So they are just getting their lulz before they are banned and really do not care. The ones who do make another account have found something fun in their griefing ( a sim owner shrilling) and this keeps them coming back.
Senban Babii
Apr 7th, 2011
@Paul
“My other point about oldbies was that often their whining and conservatism often seems to stifle any innovations that SL might try.”
Omelet? Is that you?
Orca Flotta
Apr 7th, 2011
@ Yep:
Yep, exactly. It’s also guys like our little Paul here, who keeps on and on and on until one is so repulsed and disgusted and ready to leave the party … only to be yellled at one’s back that this was to be expected from european women.
Sorry, just can’t get over that obnoxious prick.
… talking about him …
@ Paul:
You still there? OMG, your sillyness knows no bounds. But are you aware how bad that makes you look, even if you should achieve by a small chance to make one or two tiny points?
Maybe if you would stick to any topic and don’t come up with new stuff all the time it would be nicer to talk with you. And trying to use things everybody knows as an argument against me? Are you a bit metal or what? I’m quite aware that SL is run by LL as a commercial product, and I refuse them calling me a resident when I’m in fact a paying customer. So why do you deem it necessary to teach me that?
When I say I take my SL seriously, I’m not talking about investments of any kind. But talking about the stuff I do, about my friends and sports buddies, about my fun.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 9-0
My favourite tactic? Heck, I don’t have any tactics. If you think in those terms you shoud really get your head checked out. And btw, even if it’s tottally uninteresting, you are so utterly and completely wrong in your assumption, it’s almost criminal.
I think you’re wrong because you are american?
How sick are you? That’s no reason, no argument. I would never think in such fucked-up ways.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 10-0
Making SL more n00b friendly is not an idea per se, it’s in LL’s interest and their responsibility to make SL more friendly for everyone.
But if they do it on my expense, if they slowly ruin my experience, I’m not a happy buny anymore and complain. So, contrary to you I welcome all open source 3rd party viewers. As long as they give me the functions and the GUI I need and want I’m a happy camper.
And as far as I recall it, you indeed said something to the extend that SL would be better without us oldbies.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 11-0
You fuck, you dare lecturing me about AM radio??? Your arrogance is realy appalling. Telling my for the umpteenth time stuff every kid nows won’t make your weak point any stronger!
So what’s your point? AM could torpedoe the other content builders rght out of the water … if he wanted? Maybe. Maybe not. It realy doesn’t matter. That is comparing apples with oranges in any language and in any book. Because AM makes art installations, other peopel are building vehicles, and again other people are making clothes, houses, gadgets. SL is a creative outlet for the content creators. If they sell their stuff or give it away … who cares? I leave it to their own discretion, maybe you should learn that as well: Leave people alone and stop being a goddamn pest!
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 12-0
About businesses, yes, really successful business owners are only a small minority, here SL is exactly like RL. But they also bring in good revenue for LL, unlilke those hordes of n00bs who just wanna have fun and don’t contribute to the exprience in any way.
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 13-0
And yet again, if you fucking blabbering idiot dare or even think about congratulating me for not using many swear words on scum like you, I … well, I won’t do shit. And that’s exactly the only reason why emotional rapists and abusers like you are still around in the internet: you can slander and insult others, burn them and hurl accusations on them, you can contradict yourself over and over again, because you are an anonymous basement dweller, a internet bully. And now give the laptop back to your mum, she has better use for it than you.
Look at you go (away)!
*** Scoreboard Orca vs Paul: 14-0
PS: I kninda know exactly what Paul’s response will be. And I shall be damned if I reply to his slander again.
Orca Flotta
Apr 7th, 2011
Hmmm examples of a bad oldbies. Ok. How about the people that made ad farms? the real estate barons with their automated parcel buying software? People that buy entire sims and make shitty builds just to make malls, vendors, sex clubs, for a profit that are a blight on the landscape of SL. Little napoleons like Mark Twain White. There you go… enough examples?
(Nelson gave a short instruction of how to format text in italic, maybe you should read his posts more carefully)
Anyway, I just couldn’t refuse to pick out this example of your bad style before I take my leave.
What’s wrong with people buying entire sims and doing whatever they please on their own land? You and me might find their builds ugly, we might even find sex clubs undesirable. But it’s not our concern to judge.
Ad farms may not be pretty but again, they belong to someone. Someone else, not you. Not your business. BTW, LL took it on themselves to buy back as many of them as possible and clean the mainland. It’s LL business as grid owners. If they don’t like adfarms or are told by many many customers that adfarms are no good, they can act or don’t act.
Automated parcel buying, yes, it’s bad. I fell victim to those fucks myself once. LL refused to do anything against it, so I guess in generally accepted terms I was just a careles idiot. So what now? Do you expect me to start some meaningless campaign in the comment section of a yellow press mag?
Little Napoleons like MTW are indeed just that: Little. They may trouble you if you have to deal with them, but that’s interpersonal stuff and has nothing to do with his age in game. And neither with his really little estate (which is nicely done by the way). I bet he was exactly like that before he entered SL, and he will continue after leaving SL..
So if you ask me if it was enough examples, the answer is no. Apart from the fact that all your examples are not valid, they will still be just that: examples. Examples never make a strong argument. Give us some empirical data to work on and make up our minds. Then we can start to talk.
If analysis of said data shows that in the end it’s me personally causing SL to die I shall not hesitate one second and delete my acccount.
Reader
Apr 7th, 2011
This here reinforces the fact that SL is indeed a “social platform”.
Orca – “When I say I take my SL seriously, I’m not talking about investments of any kind. But talking about the stuff I do, about my friends and sports buddies, about my fun.”
And I applaud you for admitting taking it all so seriously. You should be commended for that. /me pats you on the back
And to the nay-sayers who think Facebook is somehow the epitome of social platforms (and defines the new ‘classical’ definition of such), let’s just say they need to get their head examined when they state such loosely constructed axioms like how SL isn’t like Facebook.
So let’s compare:
Facebook is a communication platform with inherent “about me” capabilities [either true or virtually skewed to varying degress of exaggeration - meaning creatively conjured] – ah – so is SL.
Facebook lets you engage “challenging tasks” with gaming flavor if you so choose, Farmville, Mafia Wars, you name – ah – so does SL although not as apparent in structure [all the time...]. Breeding and distributing chickens, rabbits and horses or Zyngo doesn’t come to mind?
LMAO, come on now……
Facebook lets you align yourself with school, work or family affiliations – again for communication purposes – by linking and joining groups and making friend linkages – ah – hmmmm – so does SL.
and lastly, Facebook by virtue of its construct is a communication (e.q. the primary mode of being defined as a “social” mechanism in the first place] or social platform in both the classical and contemporary definitions of such – and oh yeah, you guessed it – so is SL.
Is it a game? to many
Is it a social networking site? to most
Is it a “social platform”? ah, you bet it is – and again – it is no matter how you slice it.
Sidebar:
The rest of you AH that seem to monopolize the channels here, with predictable regularity (even those of you who are NOW adamantly against loggin into SL), you’re all getting just a bit too long in the tooth if you ask me (and I realize you didn’t…..) with all this rant & spew.
And we all know what tooth decay leads to now don’t we? Prokofy-itis. Work on that, because you doth protest too much and it’s affecting your judgement – what little you may have left. Shit, the Orca score keeping thing itself exceeds most the brainfart BS Prok ever got away with. Seriously, maybe that’s the problem here; your ‘serious business’ take on SL is becoming exceedlingly threatened by the likes of Paul. And know this, just because some of you don’t log into SL anymore, that e-lifestyle has tainted your r-lifestyle because you’ve either moved on to different platforms and/or you’re living out the “serious business” here on the AH.
I often wonder what many of you thread-rant-got nothing better to do-e-junky-regulars on here would do if the internet was never , ever invented (introduced) into your little spheres of existence? Would you be acting out in RL in all the ways most societies look down or frown upon? Would prank phone calls, ringing door bells and setting fire to bags of dogshit on door steps have kept you assumed into these later stages of your life? Maybe having a place to rant like this to no end keeps you off the streets and the resultant social redeeming value is actually a plus and not a minus on aggregate – hmmmm – interesting thought if I do say so myself.
In the words of the Joker,
“Why So Serious?”
Paul
Apr 7th, 2011
@yep. I take the point, and I am sure there are a lot of noob trouble makers, but I wonder who does worse damage: them or ‘oldbie’ griefers. Are those JLU doods that I read about in the herald with their database of SL users noobies? Is the guy that made Redzone a noob? The people that made Emerald Viewer? are the woodbury and pna guys noobies? The person that developed automated land buying software? The people that make and use copybot software? Once again, like with “social platform” I maybe tripping over my lack of knowledge of the jargon used in these discussions… maybe ‘griefing’ means something very specific. I generally mean it to mean anyone who uses their Second Life experience to degrade the experience of another resident in a deliberate, callous, and selfish manner.
@senban. =] I know not of this Omlet you speak, although i rather like omlets, especially with green onions. (honestly, I am not this omlet person)
@Orca. You are still insulted (is the jargon “butthurt”???) about my ‘european woman’ comment? you don’t think it was fair? Of course it is not fair. As I already explained, I was being sarcastic, because of the large number of times I have seen you try to insult people (including me) by calling them “American Males.” Why is it not fair for someone to call you a “European Female”, but it IS fair to dismiss someone’s point of view because they are an “american male”? Do you know the meaning of the word “hypocrisy” as it is used in English?
I don’t understand why you are so upset about my description of AM Radio. Both you and nelson continue to misunderstand why I brought him up in the first place, I was simply trying to explain to you both why I used him as an example.
Let me give you a hint on how you and nelson can easily counter my argument, and thus save the herald readers another round of this inane line of argument. Instead of you and Nelson continuing to say “PAUL YOU ARE A SELFISH STUPID LIAR!!! AM RADIO DOES NOT RUN A BUSINESS AND HIS VEHICLES ARE HIGH PRIM AND YOU ARE STUPID PAUL!!!” try saying: “BUT PAUL, I DONT AGREE…THERE ARE MANY COMMERCIAL VEHICLE BUILDERS IN SL WHO ARE AS OR NEARLY AS TALENTED IN GRAPHIC DESIGN AS AM RADIO, AND THEY MAKE A GOOD LIVING BUILDING AND SELLING VEHICLES IN A FREE MARKET”
My only reasonable response to that would be, “I don’t agree, but you could be right” (unless, of course, I decided to adopt your debate tactics and call you a selfish jerk rapist).
Speaking of which, Orca please explain to me how I am “Emotional Rapist.” Don’t you think comparing a disagreement over the business strategies of an online video game to “rape” is an insult to people who have actually been raped? Violence against women is a serious problem (read about what is happening in Egypt right now, for example). Don’t you think comparing our little debate to rape demeans the seriousness of actual rape?
Orca, all I have done is express an opinion. I have never yelled at you, called you names, or said your point of view was stupid or wrong. I have just made my argument, and tried to clarify when I think you or nelson have mischaracterized my argument (which, frankly, you both have done constantly). It is fine that you do not agree with me, and that you have a different opinion. That does not make you stupid, ignorant, selfish, or whatever other names you have called me.
Orca, is it at least possible for you to say: “Paul, I know you believe what you believe, and you have a right to believe what you believe, but I do not agree with you.” From that point of view, we could have a productive discussion where we share opinions about SL and its future, a topic that we both (as well as the others in this forum) seem to care about.
If it is not possible, I am left to believe that in Orca Flotta’s world, all it takes for someone to be an “Emotional Rapist” or a “Blabbering Idiot” is that they have a different opinion then Orca Flotta.
Reader
Apr 7th, 2011
**type fast spell check later doesn’t always work well**
**corrected, sorry**
This here reinforces the fact that SL is indeed a “social platform”.
Orca – “When I say I take my SL seriously, I’m not talking about investments of any kind. But talking about the stuff I do, about my friends and sports buddies, about my fun.”
And I applaud you for admitting taking it all so seriously. You should be commended for that. /me pats you on the back
And to the nay-sayers who think Facebook is somehow the epitome of social platforms (and defines the new ‘classical’ definition as such), well, let’s just say they need to get their heads examined when they state such loosely constructed axioms, such as how SL isn’t like Facebook in the modern sense. Ha!
So let’s compare:
Facebook is a communication platform with inherent “about me” capabilities [either true or virtually skewed to varying degress of exaggeration - meaning creatively conjured] – ah – so is SL.
Facebook lets you engage “challenging tasks” with gaming flavor if you so choose, Farmville, Mafia Wars, you name – ah – so does SL although not as apparent in structure or presentation [all the time...]. Breeding and distributing chickens, rabbits and horses or Zyngo doesn’t come to mind? LMAO, come on now……
Facebook lets you align yourself with school, work, family or friend affiliations – again for communication purposes – by linking with friends & joining groups – ah – hmmmm – so does SL.
and lastly, Facebook by virtue of its construct is a communication (e.g. the primary mode of being defined as a “social” mechanism in the first place] or social platform in both the classical and contemporary definitions of such – and oh yeah, you guessed it – so is SL.
Is it a game? to many
Is it a social networking site? to most
Is it a social game? Many griefers think it is and it keeps them coming back for more…..
Is it a “social platform”? ah, you bet it is – and again – IT IS no matter how you slice it.
Sidebar:
The rest of you AHers that seem to monopolize the channels here, with much predictable regularity (even those of you who are NOW adamantly against logging into SL), you’re all getting just a bit too long in the tooth if you ask me (and I realize you didn’t…..), with all this blah blah blah rant & spew. And we all know what tooth decay and gum disease leads to now don’t we? Prokofy-itis. So work on that, because you doth protest too much and it’s affecting your judgement – what little you may have left. Shit, the Orca score keeping thing alone exceeds most the brainfart BS Prok ever got away with. Seriously, maybe that’s the problem here; your ‘serious business’ take on SL is becoming exceedlingly threatened by the likes of Paul. And know this, just because some of you don’t log into SL anymore, that e-lifestyle has tainted your r-lifestyle (possibely forever) because you’ve either moved on to different platforms and/or you’re living out that residual “serious business” here on the AH.
I often wonder what many of you thread-rant-got nothing better to do-e-junky-regulars on here would do if the internet was never , ever invented (introduced) into your little spheres of existence? Would you be acting out in RL in all the ways most societies look down or frown upon? Would prank phone calls, ringing door bells and setting fire to bags of dogshit on door steps have kept you amused into these later stages of your life? Maybe having a place to rant like this to no end keeps you off the streets and the resultant social redeeming value is actually a plus and not a minus on aggregate – hmmmm – interesting thought if I do say so myself.
In the words of the Joker,
“Why So Serious?”
Paul
Apr 7th, 2011
@ reader
Sorry, I was finishing my long winded rant while you were posting your long winded rant =]. Right on brotha, you are an officer and a gentleman (or gentlewoman).
For me, a major difference between FB and SL is that on FB, I am my self, but in SL (and in here), I create an anonymous identity that gets away with lighting bags of shit on fire on peoples doorstep. Online identity creation (and the degrees of intimacy and accountability etc that goes along with it) is a fascinating thing. FB is just another mode of communication i use like a phone or email. SL is a (mostly) private fantasy where you can get away with stuff (like being a pirate or an animal or the ruler of a small empire) that you can’t be in RL.
I am sure it is not the case for everyone, but everyone in my RL knows I use facebook, but very few know about my SL use..and those that do, their reactions range from benign amusement, to kind sympathy, to overt contempt. Not so with facebook. (for some reason, I bet this is gonna result in Orca or someone screaming obscenities at me again).
Senban Babii
Apr 7th, 2011
@Paul
Just so you know, “Omelet” refers to the writer of this particular article (there was an article at the head of this dramafest
).
“Omelet Ex-Linden” refers to Hamlet Linden a.k.a. Wagner James Au who used to be a Linden and who writes and edits New World Notes. The reason I made the crack about asking if you were Omelet is that you made the exact same argument that he’s been making in a series of articles in his blog recently.
The thing is Paul, you actually do make some valid points. The primary reason why I myself no longer log into SL, haven’t done for months, probably won’t again and can’t even remember my password is because of all the crap that LL allows to run on their grid. Sure they eventually get round to doing something about it months after the residents have complained until they’re blue in the face but too slow, too little and too late. And Redzone is just the latest in a stream of such problems. I used to go to live music events but now that my streaming media is turned off, there’s no value. I never personally lost interest in SL. I simply lost interest in SL as it currently exists but the concepts and underlying ideas still interest me, otherwise I’d not even be bothering to discuss these things here and elsewhere. SL itself still interests me too but the Lab has got a hell of a lot of damage control and rebuilding of customer trust before I’ll bother trying to remember my password.
Now you’re quite right, a lot of those issues have come from what’s being referred to here as Oldbies, that’s unavoidable. But what you’re in effect proposing is keeping everyone in a state of blissful n00biness, wandering the grid like passive consumers but never gaining any experience or ability. That will never work of course. You need experienced residents just as you need fresh-faced n00bs. We don’t need to make SL more n00b-friendly. We need to make SL better for every resident, new and old and when I say we I mean they as in Linden Lab. But if LL pisses off the older residents, they’ll simply walk away as many do every day, taking their content and logged-in hours with them. Less blogs being written, less new content being created. So by all means, cater purely to those fresh-faced n00bs but when they come they’ll find nothing waiting for them and they’ll leave again. Either that or they’ll be forced to start from scratch just like it’s 2003 all over again.
And maybe all that will be left of the first SL civilisation will be a giant Philip Linden statue sticking out of a beach at a lopsided angle while someone pounds the sand with their fists screaming YOU MANIACS YOU BLEW IT UP DAMN YOU ALL DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL
Reader
Apr 7th, 2011
@ Paul,
In principal I agree with you that FB is more or less true identity based and SL is more skewed to the anonymous (again…to varying degrees) but the question isn’t really about open & transparent social communication vs skewed and anonymouse social interaction, I was simply ranting against the (illiterate) machine in here that state SL isn’t a social platform. They are both social platforms, they just aren’t serving the same “end game” if you will at all times, with SL tending to be me more fantasy based – but then again, there are no hard & fast rules on this. There’s lots of folks fully transparent on SL that use it as a social platform, just as their are lots of anonymous accounts on FB. No clean lines of distinction in the final analysis. FB is more widely know so it’s perceived as “this” or “that” by the masses; SL caters to a smaller, select group of society. That all said, SL is a social platform – no doubt about it – even if the social interaction demonstrates much wider degrees of freedom.
We can disagree about varying “degrees” of this and that, but on a foundational basis, both are social platforms.
Anyway. I’ve been enjoying the debate without any need to publicly keep score, LMAO – and it’s clear where the logic is falling on most of the key points.
Cheers!
Axel Oakleaf
Apr 7th, 2011
@Reader
This.
It is a social platform,many companies and organizations use it for meetings and training,like the US Army.
http://www.myarmyonesource.com/CommunitiesandMarketplace/VirtualWorlds/SecondLife/default.aspx
hobo kelly
Apr 7th, 2011
the bugs told me man. word up. the bugs said that there be trouble comin’ to the Blake sea. the bugs are all going there. they have their little bug straws too. the bugs said that you can drink the Mark Twain milkshakes, and then snort the White. or maybe it was the other way around… i’m going there too. if I find a bug that no longer needs its straw I will report back…
Paul
Apr 7th, 2011
..
Axel Oakleaf
Apr 8th, 2011
What is this i don’t even
Orca Flotta
Apr 8th, 2011
Guys, I can tell you what the difference is between SL and FB:
SL is a 3D game-like environment. A blank canvas for anyone to paint on. You can unfriend everybody, leave all 42 groups, clear your profile and have your peace and quiet. Heck, stupid me, I can just use an alt and have the same effect. I often do exactly that. No social interaction, no networking, no platform. Heavenly silence and finally some undisturbed me-time. But I’ll still be in SL and still have my fun.
I have no clue about FB, don’t have an account there and won’t probably ever need one. But AFAIK it’s static and 2D. So it doesn’t have any appeal for me. But I guess it’s all about social contacts with people I’ll never meet in RL or even have the intention of meeting. And a lot of self-promoting and stuff like that. In other words: a totally boring and undesirable piece of software.
But ok, SL is a social platform, just with many really socially challenged inhabitants.
@ Senban and all others who don’t log into SL anymore:
Heck, people, what are you doing all the time in SL? I’m getting around fairly much but I never had any problems with Woodbury, JLU, Redzone and whatnot. I only know about them from reading the Herald. And reading the Herald I only do because my connection is often too weak to allow me to log into SL. I was hinted to the fact that I was on some list of the Emerald guys, although I only used their viewer very briefly, and nobody could tell me what effect my name on their list would have on me or anyone else. So I chose to ignore it and just get on with my SL. Really have better things to do than cariing about boring geeks and their shenanigans. They may do what they fancy. But what I will never allow anyone to do is driving me away from SL, not those geeks and not the labbers. Woodbury, JLU, Redzone, Emerald, did they have any real impact on your SL? And if so, in how far?
paul
Apr 8th, 2011
@hobo… dish man dish. or get a herald reporter on the story???
@reader. Definitely a matter of degree. ALL of these online social platforms require a different kind of impression management then in RL, although I haven’t quite wrapped my mind around what it is. Whatever it is, however, somehow it often allows people to call each other such hateful things like “emotional rapists” without much consideration lol.
@senban. Yeah I think that Planet of the Apes scene is where SL is going. Unfortunately, I am not sure who is to blame more. Who is the ‘you’ in “you blew it up!!!” LL or the residents?
time to be done with this thread? I am off to the coast for the weekend. Take care all!
hobo kelly
Apr 8th, 2011
so like i followed the mucous trails to the contested waters today. the smell of rotting fish carcasses reminded me that I was near to where I didn’t want to be. i saw a plane land on the water. i saw a swarm of Weavles surround it at 11:11am. They were secret service Weavles. Maritime Tactical Weavles to be precise. so many bugs are coming into the Blake sea that the MTW has more than it can handle to keep them under control. soon the straws came out. the MTW began sucking the life out of the poor plane. wrong place at the wrong time. didnt even have any Bugs in it. just a crazed feeding frenzy. but some Free Bugs did show up and decided try to save the plane and join the fight against the MTW. the fight got out of hand and the AR’s began to fly. and so did I. I knew that this was just the outer defence ring, pirate triggered as you approach the MTW core…
how it all began:
http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/04/pixeleen_mistra.html
.
Senban Babii
Apr 8th, 2011
@Orca
In my case, there were no specific issues for me with any of those groups. In fact I’m going to go so far as to say that Woodbury shouldn’t be on that brief list because in the occasional dealings I had with them (some a lot more than others), they were bright, intelligent people. Their only problem really was the few bad apples hiding among them.
The real issue for me was simply the fact that LL allowed and sometimes even encouraged various people to act in unethical ways to the detriment of their user base. There was Lab collusion behind the JLU wiki, behind Emerald, behind etc etc. They only ever got off their backsides and finally did something when people had literally screamed about it for months.
Now none of those particular issues affected me personally. I don’t have any alts so Redzone didn’t affect me. I didn’t use Emerald either. And while I may have annoyed the JLU considerably by helping to expose their crap, they never launched AR parties at me or whatever.
But it was the principles behind these things that drove me away. The fact that what should have been a bit of enjoyable recreation was turned into a constant concern about what the next thing to be exposed would be. It’s one thing to have social drama between groups/factions, that inevitable and natural but when people are allowed and even encouraged to turn the very environment against you then it sucks the pleasure out of logging in. Trust me when I say I had a very active SL over the years (I won’t bore you with the list of things I’ve been involved in, some are here in the Herald, some are in my blog or Flickr or whatever if you’re really that interested). But I don’t trust the Lab to protect my privacy or safety so they can bugger themselves with kippers.
They won’t even protect my rights as a consumer under copyright law in the very country where they are based. So why should I endorse them with my presence and custom?
“I only know about them from reading the Herald.”
Ignorance is not bliss. It’s just ignorance. If it wasn’t for the Herald exposing these people, they’d likely go unnoticed or marginalised. Even Omelet Ex-Linden tried to downplay the Redzone fiasco in his blog. Nothing to see here, don’t make a fuss, happiness is mandatory, trust the Computer, keep logging in and spending you valuable cash cows, moo for us baby.
But that’s enough about me
@Paul
“Who is the ‘you’ in “you blew it up!!!” LL or the residents?”
Primarily LL.
Senban Babii
Apr 8th, 2011
@Paul
“Who is the ‘you’ in “you blew it up!!!” LL or the residents?”
Primarily LL.
I need to add one small point here. LL didn’t necessarily create some problems, that lies with certain members of the user base. It’s inevitable that there will be people in any society who seek to control the other members of that society and to take advantage of those other members.
The problem is that LL did nothing to prevent it and even endorsed it frequently and so ultimately the blame lies with them.
Hopefully that makes my point more clearly for you Paul?
Orca Flotta
Apr 8th, 2011
Ignorance is not bliss. It’s just ignorance. If it wasn’t for the Herald exposing these people, they’d likely go unnoticed or marginalised. Even Omelet Ex-Linden tried to downplay the Redzone fiasco in his blog.
@ Senban:
You’re dead on about the ignorance. But in today’s fastmoving world one can’t know it all anymore, one has to stay ignorant of some stuff. I consider myself a generalist rather than a specialist so I know a litttle about a lot of stuff. It would be a fulltime job to keep track of the shenanigans of some techno kidz in SL, which would mean I’d have to let other far more interesting things fall by the wayside. SL is only one of the many things I do. Even with a reduced online time of only 6-12 hours/day I just don’t have the time to scramble for stuff that doesn’t interest me or affect my litttle niche in SL.
I only started reading the Herald more intensely since my connection went from bad to worse. And I read it purely for entertainment value. Now Omelette’s blog I stopped reading since it’s too technically inclined and bores me to tears. Also it isn’t about SL exclusively anymore but covers BM, Sims online, Minecraft and the likes. I rather stay decidedly ignorant of those.
Senban Babii
Apr 8th, 2011
Absolutely Orca I agree. We have to select what interests us and what doesn’t. But we also have to look at what affects us and what doesn’t.
For example, in EVE I have virtually no interest whatsoever in PvP so reading posts on the EVE forums about pew-pew might be tangentially interesting but overall not worth my time.
But if a scam of some sort is being perpetuated then it is something that could affect me so I read up about it to protect myself rather than because I’m interested in it.
Incidentally I fly an Orca in EVE
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Orca
Pappy Enoch
Apr 8th, 2011
“YOU MANIACS YOU BLEW IT UP DAMN YOU ALL DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL”
I knowed it were them damned dirty apes, like I been a-tryin’ to tell y’all.
They aims to blow up the fake world. Stop ‘em!
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Apr 8th, 2011
Senban Babi @ “The thing is Paul, you actually do make some valid points. The primary reason why I myself no longer log into SL, haven’t done for months,…,”
Sure, with your Senban account. As for your alt,..
Orca Flotta
Apr 8th, 2011
somehow it often allows people to call each other such hateful things like “emotional rapists” without much consideration lol.
… and that one sentence again proves that you are indeed what is defined as an “emotional rapist”, because …
1) you misinterpret a thoroughly made observation as “hateful thing”
2) you accuse me of not considering my statement
Not only are you dead wrong in both points but by doing so you are invading my personal space, you are intrusive. You did so on various occasions throughout this debate.
Telling Nelson and me how we should formualte our responds to you is more than just a bit brashy, it’s an atrocity.
So,even if you were right in all your arguments I’d still hate you.
@Orca. You are still insulted (is the jargon “butthurt”???) about my ‘european woman’ comment?
No, I’m not buthurt, I’m amazed about how stupid your reasoning is.
you don’t think it was fair? Of course it is not fair. As I already explained, I was being sarcastic,
No, reacting to something you misunderstod in the first place doesn’t make it sarcastic … it just stays stupid.
because of the large number of times I have seen you try to insult people (including me) by calling them “American Males.” Why is it not fair for someone to call you a “European Female”, but it IS fair to dismiss someone’s point of view because they are an “american male”?
Oh did I? Sorry I can’t remember having put you in place any time before. See, you are loud and obnoxious but you stil fail to leave a lasting impression. “American male” isn’t an insult as such, only if you construct it as such in a matter of self-concept.
I probably failed in explaining to people that I mean to have found a certain manner of debating that seems to be of a typical american descent. Very opportunistic, wiggly, harsh, two-faced, aggressive and goal orientated. You always must win, as if this was a sport or so (that’s why I started my silly scoring system).
Do you know the meaning of the word “hypocrisy” as it is used in English?
In fact I know it only as used in english, since all other languages have different words for it
Doesn’t matter anyway since it doesn’t apply to me.
I’m not insulted and neither am I butthurt by being called an european woman, since I am indeed just that. No reason arguing this little insignificant fact. But I am insulted and butthurt by your intrusiveness again. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, ASSHOLE! You don’t have the necessary intellectual means to interprete and diagnose what’s going on in there.
I don’t understand why you are so upset
… and yet again, stop your false interpretations. You can’t know if I’m upset, so leave the wrong accusations. I gave my opinion about him, that’s all.
about my description of AM Radio. Both you and nelson continue to misunderstand why I brought him up in the first place, I was simply trying to explain to you both why I used him as an example.
.. you’re doing it again. How dare you, insisting on the point that we misunderstood you? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Let me give you a hint on how you and nelson can easily counter my argument, and thus save the herald readers another round of this inane line of argument. Instead of you and Nelson continuing to say “PAUL YOU ARE A SELFISH STUPID LIAR!!! AM RADIO DOES NOT RUN A BUSINESS AND HIS VEHICLES ARE HIGH PRIM AND YOU ARE STUPID PAUL!!!” try saying: “BUT PAUL, I DONT AGREE…THERE ARE MANY COMMERCIAL VEHICLE BUILDERS IN SL WHO ARE AS OR NEARLY AS TALENTED IN GRAPHIC DESIGN AS AM RADIO, AND THEY MAKE A GOOD LIVING BUILDING AND SELLING VEHICLES IN A FREE MARKET”
My only reasonable response to that would be, “I don’t agree, but you could be right” (unless, of course, I decided to adopt your debate tactics and call you a selfish jerk rapist).
… and yet again!!! Have you ever thought about the possibility that we didn’t want to say it with your words but chose our own, which are much better than yours anyway? At least in case of Nelson who has the advantage of being a natural born english speaker.
We countered your argument by telling you were you err and how it is not applicable to your reasoning. That’s all. Everything you said later is insignifiicant
In fact every single sentence you wrote after your ultrastupid first posting is insignificant and dispensable.
My turn now to become intrusive and try to fuck with your brain:
Paul, you wanted to cause a stirrup, didn’t you? Congrats, that you managed indeed. Quite a huge pile of stinkapoo you created here. Singlehandedly. All in a day’s work.
And since you received the well earned flak for your poorly thought out and (purposely) poorly worded attack you’re trying to wiggle your way out of this dilemma of yours. Sorry, you FAIL!
Have a nice weekend everybody.
Senban Babii
Apr 8th, 2011
@Emperor
“Sure, with your Senban account. As for your alt,..”
Really? Which alt would that be? Feel free to list it/them. No really.
Last time I myself logged in was a few weeks back when I logged in for less than a minute so I could collect the two tsunami bears I’d just bought on the marketplace to support the Japan fund. Before that was back in January (I think). I vaguely recall logging in twice during December and then only briefly, once I think was to set my groups so they wouldn’t show on the web-based profiles because you might recall there was that initial annoyance where everyone’s groups were suddenly being shown or whatever it was? Oh and last time I logged in I also removed my payment details (although I still show as having them on file for some reason but there’s no payment method attached anymore). Would I do that if I was coming back? Nope. I no longer even monitor my SL FB page and there’s been a note on there for months now saying as much.
There you go, that should make you all warm and fuzzy my little cupcake. But hey, feel free to list any alts you think are me. I’m actually curious to see who you think I am. Is it somebody famous? Oh please say you think I’m Pappy or something XD
hobo kelly
Apr 8th, 2011
Just then Blondin Linden opened his eyes. and shook his head. “jesus, I’m dreaming of MarkTwain White and Prokofy Neva again…” he thought. “What can it mean?” Just like a thorn or a splinter stuck somewhere under the skin, something in Blondin’s past was still trying to get out. like a prarie dog. he shifted uncomfortably… “if I concentrate on my breathing maybe I can regain control, OF MY OWN MIND…”
The Prarie Dog kicked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duM2ttpqT5Q
Nelson Jenkins
Apr 8th, 2011
I feel sorry for you guys for having to deal with Paul.
That’s why I’m offering, for a limited time only, 50% off of my new stress-relief product, Troll-Ignore! For the low low price of $9.99 for this weekend only, you too can ignore trolls and move on with life.
With my product, thousands of satisfied customers no longer answer troll questions. You can be one of them! Call 1-900-NO-TROLL to place your order. Operators are standing by.
marilyn murphy
Apr 8th, 2011
@pappy: i used to date dr. zaius. he was a nice ape if you get to know him. he got a lotta bad press over that human thing. we stopped seeing each other cause he broke a date to go to some forbidden something somewhere. so kinda a bastard too.
Obvious Schism
Apr 9th, 2011
Beware the power of Gravatar!
http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/11/babyfur-week-in.html
Gundel Gaukelei
Apr 9th, 2011
Making SL more userfriendy for old AND (its AND, not XOR, stupid) new users was nothing, a pluggable UI in the client couldn’t have solved. So effectively SL went down the drain for failing on a task thats considered a basic design pattern in the world of UI design:
——————————
Pick one UI:
(*) Default (simple new user friendly webbrowser alike)
(_) Advanced (way more nifty buttons)
(_) Expert (blinkenlights on steroids)
(_) Custom [Load XML layout.../Start GUI Editor]
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Thats all that would have been nessessary.
paul
Apr 9th, 2011
wow Orca you keep coming back for more. You are the perfect victim. I had to laugh out loud when you said that the ‘pile of stinkipoo’ was a solitary act on my part. You are my partner in stinkipooness, sweetheart! and I never once raised my voice or called you names.
Senban, I totally get it… many older residents of SL clearly feel aggrieved by LL and mourn the passing of their brave new world. I am sorry that you all feel such a loss. There has been and continue to be great things about SL, but for gods sakes, a little perspective is necessary. How could LL continue that idealism in the face of copybotting, adfarms, pyramid schemes, and child p*rn? A webbased SL market was a horrible idea as it empties out inworld shops…but some greedy f*ck resident thought of it first when they made xstreet.
This has been instructive though. If Orca is a fair example of those who are vested heart and soul in SL, no wonder the oldbies have such a hard time facing how tenuous their SL lives really are in the hands of a for profit private video game company.
All I really ever said was that the oldbies might do themselves a favor by acknowledging the reality of that situation, and Orca really illustrates well how difficult that seems to be. Oh well…. best of luck =]
Senban Babii
Apr 9th, 2011
@Paul
“How could LL continue that idealism in the face of copybotting, adfarms, pyramid schemes, and child p*rn?”
This is a good question so I’ll share my thoughts.
The brave new world as you call it had enough space in it, physically and philosophically for virtually everyone to have their own piece of it and be happy. And that even includes room for people to try and take advantage of others through pyramid schemes, that’s just the human machine in action. Same for adfarms, that’s just marketing ingenuity as much as they were an occasional eyesore on the grid.
The problems arose quite simply because individuals and groups arose who attempted to in effect take control of the Second Lives of others. And I don’t just mean internally to the world through politics (because that’s normal and acceptable) but externally too, metagaming the experiences of others through corrupt viewers, external databases of alts and so on. And Linden Lab ENDORSED it all, only withdrawing support when those things became politically hot potatoes. Not once were they seen to be proactively doing the right thing to protect the residents from those trying to create problems for their own greed and ego.
If LL wants the residents to stay, they need to do something to restore confidence. It’s that simple. Because ultimately, what’s killing SL and LL is the customer’s lack of trust and confidence in the provider.
hobo kelly
Apr 10th, 2011
so the bugs showed up again. they came right into my bunker through the walls saturday night. right when things were really getting good. ain’t that the way it always goes. like gout or something. right when things are really getting good, *things* start to edgecast, then they start to sausage cast, then comes the word salad spewing fourth from the Saladshooter, then the technocommunists bugs all start to chatter their mandables when you start talking like that. lordy. “We hired and trained you to be a spy in the Blake sea” the main bug, the biggest bug started to say. “you haven’t even tendered a report yet. some spy you turned out to be…”. talking bugs are bad enough, but when they come through your walls right into your hobo bunker, you don’t let them talk to you like that. not in your own bunker you don’t. “Dont start bugging me already” I bleared, blearly blurted out, to the bug. “So far I have connected Pixeleen Mistral and Mark Twain White at the very beginning of your whole bug laden mess” some spittle may have actually flown across and hit the bug because it blinked and cleaned its video pods or whatever they were just then, with its feeler. “and furthermore I think we have seen how some kind of extortion against Linden Labs was used to secure some kind of tastey deal, because the MTW is still patrolling in full force around the Blake…” the bug looked like it was falling asleep… “You’re forgetting someone” the free bug said, modulating some bug puke that spontaneously came out of its bug mouth while it was bug-talking. “blurf barf, read this, it might blurf barf, help you out. the interesting parts are in the comments. shes giving it to the MTW and Heidi the JLU agent in one post, blurf barf..:”
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/01/the-lindens-cross-the-bloodbrain-barrier-the-sea-of-fic.html
hobo kelly
Apr 10th, 2011
“i know that the MTW used to live on Ravenglass with this prokofy neva character that you showed me the link to, ive done my homework you know, and I read about a whole battle that started there as the MTW attempted to take over Ravenglass and rend control away from its owner neva. and since Woodbury used to live there too, on Ravenglass, and you add to that the Herald Connection… it makes me think something is going on. it makes me think that the whole region is on fire…”
“Blondin Linden is still asleep. he only thinks he’s awake” the bug oozed blurping sounds out of its bug mouth. it was still talking. i was wishing for the trip to top out. “we give him occasional Bug Juice injections with our little bugpositors. you call them bug straws. he never really wakes up. with us in his head, we give him soothing hallucenations that allows him to carry out his daily duties without going insane. in return he tells us certain things… things like how Woodbury has returned to a fairly high presence in second life, all under the radar of course, and how one Tizzers Foxchase is stepping up with an Official Petition to Remove Prokofy Neva from second life…”
My jaw dropped open. If I was a full on Secret Bug Agent and had turned into a bug, I guess I would be oozing bug juice down the edge of my mouth which would be frozen in disbelief right about then. “the whole region IS on fire” i thought to myself. it will crackle and flareup worse than grilling a Zooby Prim Baby over too many coals. I clicked the bug link to have a look:
http://www.petitiononline.com/banprok/petition.html
Axel Oakleaf
Apr 10th, 2011
I’m 33 and what is this