The Alphaville Herald

306 Responses to “JLU Shamed – Green Lantern Excelsior Turns His Back on SLUniverse”

1. 

   GreenLantern Excelsior
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   “The group “Justice League Unlimited” (JLU) within Second Life have been shown to be harvesting data of many Second Life users without consent. This data includes, but is not limited to IP addresses”
   Lie

   “real and fake chat logs”
   Real – yes. Fake – lie.

   “There are multiple accounts of in-world stalking.”
   Exaggeration. Writing Abuse Reports on griefers is not stalking.

   “Some of which have allegedly been perpetrated with a hacked viewer to override the privacy controls.”
   Lie

   “JLU has utilized intimidation”
   Lie

   “submitting fake chat logs in Abuse Reports”
   Lie

   “JLU members have also abused the “AR” system via “AR Parties” where multiple members would be tp’d in to Abuse Report a targeted Second Life User to get a quick ban.
   Lie. This is not abuse, it is what Linden Lab wants residents to do, i.e., “File reports on any abuse you witness in addition to abuse that targets you personally. Not every Resident is aware of the abuse-reporting system or remembers to use it, so please help out your fellow Residents! Reports from multiple people underscore the seriousness of an incident.”

   “Furthermore, they have allegedly utilized a scripted security device with alt recognition”
   Exaggeration, ancient history, was used back when alt recognition was not a ToS violation

   “and appear to have some form of IP tracking involved being utilized, perhaps in conjunction with the SL group “**Police Department**” security trackers.”
   Lie

   “Screen shots, database table rips and a list of over 5,800 Second Life users have been obtained from the illegal JLU Wiki page.”
   Lie, the wiki is not illegal

   This is typical Tracer behavior. It’s too bad that some people will be fooled by it.
2. 

   Tracer Graves
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   Also, I’m not the one who swore an oath to protect the secrets of my compatriots in spandex, GLE. Nothing you say can be trusted.

   Anyway, you want to go back on forth on who is more truthful? Please list a SINGLE lie I’ve told. I’ll be happy to concede if you can demonstrate this to me.

   And I’ll pick an easy subject for you to answer since you’ve already gone in depth on the subject publicly. What are your feelings on the actions of Sen. Joe McCarthy of ‘McCarthyism’? Because guess what, I can link to your prior discussion and your opinions ARE relevant to this whole situation.

   http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/showthread.php?t=9982&highlight=Joe+McCarthy&page=2

   If you can ethically justify the actions of one of the most vile politicians in American history, then who knows what you are justifying with the organization you’ve sworn an oath of secrecy to.
3. 

   pixielovestopostrlinfo
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   Remove thelistsl link
   it contains rl info on jlu members, etc

   Warning, if you do not legal action will be taken.
4. 

   pixielovestopostrlinfo
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   pixie, thelistsl blogspot you posted contains rl info

   Please remove the link
5. 

   Tracer Graves
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   You’ve contradicted the very chat logs you said were real in the SLU thread, GLE, and you posted an RL disclosure within that very thread. You personally contacted the sister of one of your group targets. There are multiple screenshots, chat logs and other leaks demonstrating that you and your organizations are the ones not being truthful.

   Having AR parties is not what Linden Labs intended. And please tell me why there are screen caps in your wiki of one of your members utilizing an alt recognition feature from either the PZ or PoliceDepartment HUD. Tell me why ZenMondo can’t take screenshots of that HUD, and don’t tell me because it’s “in development”.

   Please folks, take a look at the links provided on this page and on the sidebar of the petition. You’ve collected and compiled SL and RL information of your targets into a single wiki, which is against the ToS and against cyber laws.

   Consider this an indictment, GLE. It’s up to LL to verify the logs, screencaps, and other claims. I can’t do that, but these are not things i’m making up. I’m not exaggerating, I’m relaying the many, many accusations against you. Ones you should not take so lightly and merely try to hand-wave away, like you are doing. I JUST posted chat logs of you volunteer to RL harass someone. LL has the capability to verify those chat logs and the were pulled from YOUR wiki.

   You can whine and complain, but your online vigilanteism has gone too far and I urge everyone reading this exchange to look into these matters for themselves and come to their own conclusions. And I ESPECIALLY urge Linden Lab to launch a formal investigation and I’m not alone. Far from it.
6. 

   bronxelf
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   ug. 152 comments.

   All I wanted to say is this:

   GLE, please stop abusing how math works. I’m asking nicely.

   The assumption that everyone not participating vocally in *one* thread, in *one* specific location is actively supporting you is ridiculous. All it means is that everyone else is an unknown value. That’s *all* it means. It does not imply condemnation, but nor does it imply support. It is strictly unknown.

   There are people who support the JLU.
   There are people who do not support the JLU
   There are people who know about the JLU and do not care one way or the other.
   There are people who don’t know about the JLU at all.
   There are people who will learn about the JLU and make a judgment about them.
   and There are people who will learn about the JLU and never care.

   You do not know the actual value tables for any of these things. You don’t even have the correct value of the people speaking out against you *in that thread*, as you picked the most recent 15 pages you had available to you at the time.

   It’s lousy math. Lousy math is lousy. Stop that.
7. 

   Tracer Graves
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   Also, I’m registered as Tracer Graves on both sluniverse.com and secondcitizen.net. I welcome anyone and everyone to scour through my posts to find out what ‘typical Tracer behavior’ is. I also welcome them to do the same with GreenLantern. I think our patterns of behavior will be quite clear to anyone who chooses to do the research.
8. 

   Micaela Darkwatch
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   Lying? Hello kettle. You straight out denied fishing for people personal information when I asked you. You matter-of-factly stated that all that information WAS NOT USED.

   Then, lo an behold, there it was. You, GreenLanter Excelsior, telling your comrades-in-arms, what information you have. It was YOU, stating:

   “I have a nice anonymous email address and would love to get
   the ball rolling by sending him a message: “XXXXXX Griefing goes offline as of right now or everyone you know finds out who you REALLY are.”

   You are a liar. You are a serial stalker. You are despicable.
9. 

   We
   

   Aug 28th, 2011
   

   Best thing about GLE calling all this stuff lies? Is we have no way to verify, JLU is a no-accountability organization, which is why it in no way exists for the public benefit.

   All we know from the leaks is that the JLU lies about things to the public (like lying about removing Joshua’s information from their wiki), and that they’ve discussed alt detection systems, sending threatening e-mails, gathering real life data for the aforementioned threatening, stalking people’s families via facebook or even phonecalls, and that Kalel threatened to gun down four people at his door step and doesn’t see anything wrong with that.
10. 

    Nelson Jenkins
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @ GreenLantern Excelsior

    I have been hesitant to call you out on your bullshit, GLE, and the JLU as a whole, but this is absurd. It’s time the JLU man up and stop hiding behind their shield of feigned benevolence. Don’t want to fess up what you’ve done? Suffer the wrath of public outcry on privacy grounds, much like zFire did – you know he got sent back to jail, right?

    “The group “Justice League Unlimited” (JLU) within Second Life have been shown to be harvesting data of many Second Life users without consent. This data includes, but is not limited to IP addresses”
    Lie

    Prove that the PhantomZone system does not harvest IP addresses or any other identifiable data of Second Life users. Allow an independent investigative commission outside Linden Lab to audit your database and all source code of the system. Until you complete this and the commission publishes a report stating that JLU does not participate in data harvesting, I will not believe what you say, and neither will any other competent internet user.

    “real and fake chat logs”
    Real – yes. Fake – lie.

    Regardless of the Second Life Terms of Service being only applicable to the Second Life service, publishing real chat logs outside of Second Life without consent is not acceptable behavior. Until all chat logs on your Wiki are confirmed by all participants, I will assume that they are fabricated by JLU for the purposes of banning people they do not like.

    “There are multiple accounts of in-world stalking.”
    Exaggeration. Writing Abuse Reports on griefers is not stalking.

    Not only is this an absolute truth evidenced by their in-world “manhunts”, JLU has been witnessed stalking residents in real life – see SLCC – which is a serious crime. Until you can disprove Second Life residents being stalked and “monitored” at SLCC and residents being stalked in-world, I will assume that JLU is responsible for stalking, which, by the way, is a misdemeanor in California under C.P.C. 646.9(a), regardless of whether in-world or out.

    “Some of which have allegedly been perpetrated with a hacked viewer to override the privacy controls.”
    Lie

    I cannot confirm this statement, but given your track record so far, I would think that it’s the truth.

    “JLU has utilized intimidation”
    Lie

    Once again, truth. Notwithstanding the obvious extent of intimidation in-world, JLU has illegally used the DMCA to issue frivolous takedown notifications on content that puts them in bad light. This is called intimidation, much like a mafia would off a squealer. So until you can disprove this point without a one-word answer, I will continue to believe that JLU is similar to a mafia or terrorist group in this manner.

    “submitting fake chat logs in Abuse Reports”
    Lie

    I cannot absolutely confirm this statement either (although it is only because I am too lazy to research it) but I assume you have created fake chat logs, and there would be no other purpose to make them than to use them in abuse reports.

    “JLU members have also abused the “AR” system via “AR Parties” where multiple members would be tp’d in to Abuse Report a targeted Second Life User to get a quick ban.
    Lie. This is not abuse, it is what Linden Lab wants residents to do, i.e., “File reports on any abuse you witness in addition to abuse that targets you personally. Not every Resident is aware of the abuse-reporting system or remembers to use it, so please help out your fellow Residents! Reports from multiple people underscore the seriousness of an incident.”

    It is truth. You practically admitted that JLU does this in your response (and it is widely documented) so it cannot possibly be a lie. You are no doubt aware of Linden Lab’s emergency report kick feature, which automatically kicks a user if enough residents report them and bumps the case to the top of the list. I have confirmed this feature with someone knowledgable of Linden Lab’s governance system. You purposely abuse this system to get a quick ban. There is no questioning this fact.

    “Furthermore, they have allegedly utilized a scripted security device with alt recognition”
    Exaggeration, ancient history, was used back when alt recognition was not a ToS violation

    I say again, until an independent commission issues a report on the system, it is not “ancient history” and will remain a serious issue until Linden Lab addresses it. You obviously are quite aware of Linden Lab’s eventual cave-in on the RedZone scandal; I have no doubts this will follow the same course and your group will eventually be disbanded.

    “and appear to have some form of IP tracking involved being utilized, perhaps in conjunction with the SL group “**Police Department**” security trackers.”
    Lie

    Your wiki states that you integrated the PhantomZone system with Police Department’s trackers. I wouldn’t be surprised if this information was removed upon it being made public, but once again, I am waiting for the independent report.

    “Screen shots, database table rips and a list of over 5,800 Second Life users have been obtained from the illegal JLU Wiki page.”
    Lie, the wiki is not illegal

    The Wiki is very much immoral, if not illegal. In fact, given JLU’s generous abuse of the DMCA takedown process, I am surprised that nobody has issued a takedown notification on the content in your Wiki. Once again, you assume the only governing body in Linden Lab is law. The zFire incident showed us that the will of the people is what shapes Second Life. When this scandal pops, it does not matter if the Wiki is legal or not, because it will be made irrelevant once all JLU leader accounts are banned.

    And on that note, I expressly forbid you to reference my account name or any of my work in your Wiki.
11. 

    Astolat Dufaux
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    “The people I listed as “anti-JLU” were those who posted “JLU sucks” type messages.”

    I’d like to know what I specifically said that you interpreted as “JLU sucks.”

    I’d also like you to refrain from using my name in any future postings you make that would imply I am in some way connected to ANY griefer groups. I DO NOT condone griefing, and I have never had any associations or memberships with groups you claim to undertake griefing activities.

    To continue to do so is libelous. Trust me, I know the legal definition.
12. 

    We
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @Nelson Jenkins/ GLE
    “submitting fake chat logs in Abuse Reports”
    Lie
    I cannot absolutely confirm this statement either (although it is only because I am too lazy to research it) but I assume you have created fake chat logs, and there would be no other purpose to make them than to use them in abuse reports.

    The claim of false chat logs in AR came from here:
    http://thelistsl.blogspot.com/2011/08/jlu-false-ar-log.html

    [18:34:31] The Dark Knight (maverick.grunfeld): And I’m reaching again, in this last blog post, Tux and Atlas have an exchange where Atlas makes a few remarks that aren’t so favorable about Kalel.
    [18:34:46] Jeremiah The Time Dragon (jeremiah.pintens): Blog post, outside of SL
    [18:34:50] The Dark Knight (maverick.grunfeld): If we grab that and bring it back inworld as an AR, I wonder if it will fly.
13. 

    dagooch
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    What kind of sick, morbid, twisted person would contact real life relatives of someone on their childish hitlist, especially when they are terminally ill? And phoning a mortuary? WTF?

    That’s some sick shit man. Get help whackos.
14. 

    Micaela Darkwatch
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Hearing that GLE? The storm is coming GLE. It may be just a little one. But it’s building up. More and more people will hear of the JLU’s actions.

    It’s hard to get the smell of shit out of your nose, once you smell it. It’s even harder to get rid of the stain of shit.
15. 

    Tracer Graves
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Also, I’d like to point out the wording of the petition. It begins with this:

    “The group “Justice League Unlimited” (JLU) within Second Life have been shown to be harvesting data of many Second Life users without consent.”

    Well, they have been shown based on the leaks being revealed. No lies there.

    “There are multiple accounts of in-world stalking”

    There are.

    “JLU has utilized intimidation, “alt” accounts for the purpose of gathering information against targeted information, submitting fake chat logs in Abuse Reports, among other things. JLU members have also abused the “AR” system via “AR Parties” where multiple members would be tp’d in to Abuse Report a targeted Second Life User to get a quick ban”

    In retrospect, I should have said “allegedly” and have changed the petition as of a couple minutes ago. These are all based on first hand accounts, chat logs, screen shots or other disclosures. I have not invented anything here.

    “Furthermore, they have allegedly utilized a scripted security device with alt recognition and appear to have some form of IP tracking involved being utilized, perhaps in conjunction with the SL group “**Police Department**” security trackers.”

    Please note the use of the terms “allegedly” and perhaps in regard to the IP tracking accusation. I’ve also VERY recently received information that the IP information may not have come from an IP gathering exploit but via other means (IP dump in early July). Not sure here. But I accounts still indicate that JLU and the Police Department compared databases. Not sure who any additional players would be.

    “The signers of this petition ask that Linden Lab immediately investigate and, if warranted, take formal action against Justice League Unlimited, **Police Department** and the members implicated in the multiple leaks from their illegal wiki page for their potential ToS violations, and take steps to have the data collected by JLU and **Police Department** be deleted and made permanently unavailable.”

    This petition is a call for Linden Lab to formally investigate and take appropriate action in response to any ToS violations and to take any other appropriate actions against the groups and individuals involved based on the findings of said investigation.

    The signers of this petition have no actual power over these matters but simply want Linden Lab to exercise due diligence and enforce their own Terms of Service.

    Thanks
16. 

    pixielovestopostrlinfo
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    thelist sl also discloses public information
17. 

    thelistisstupid
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    thelistsl posts rl information on their blogspot

    Pixie, dmcas will happen if you do not remove the link to it.
18. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE
    “Senban, you are probably listed as a “personage” because you write articles.”

    Thank you for taking a moment to clarify this. It’s what I’d basically expected but it’s good to have that confirmed.
19. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @Micaela Darkwatch
    “More and more people will hear of the JLU’s actions.”

    Push it in the direction of the mainstream tech and gaming media. That will not only expose the JLU to a wider audience, it will create difficulties for the image of SL and LL will be forced to take action rather than allow their product to take yet another credibility hit.
20. 

    GG3
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE

    Go to hell, you self-righteous prick
21. 

    /b/
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Funny thing is that JLU is a griefer group right, but there are also other griefer groups in SL too.

    Skills Hak = Creator OF CDS & His content creator friends using it this system needs to be removed.

    Phantom Zone By: JLU Needs to be removed.

    Smiggles Decuir & Her Copybot friends from GOR needs to be removed from teh grid.

    DarkMatter Steamer & All his buddies need to be removed from this grid for making countless threats to people, and blackmail.

    When is LL going to Listen and do something about any of this I mean friends I know have been harassed by all these people in SL and LL does nothing nor takes an abuse report seriously.

    Lets not even talk about the Land Owner Gropus that will do nothing about these griefers but support them and let them stay there and tell me to deal with Linden Lab when they are obviously using a sim they own for theft and stealing from our creators then sharing on torrents Are You SRS?

    Dont Rent Land To Griefers, Dont Support Griefers, Abuse Report Griefers & Those helping them!
22. 

    GG3
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @dagooch

    People who believe they can get away with anything, people who take a game to the extremes, and try to ride under frivolous game activities as an excuse to substitute their urge and need to control, like someone shooting a watermelon cannon. Yes, they believe watermelon cannons and chicken pot-pie’s give them an excuse to harass people RL, file fake DMCA reports, stalk people RL, or call people’s families in rl. Can anyone see the point of the insanity here?

    This is the very reason why it’s dangerous to mix virtual reality with reality, with all the weirdo’s and stalkers out there on the internet, SL is no different for these type of people to gather at as well, even under cutesy names like “Justice Leauge Unlimited” Or “PD” or any other group bent on censoring/controlling others.

    This has gotten way above and beyond some silly “griff0ring”, and it’s partially due to the fault that people have a tendency take Second-Life TOO seriously. A virtual game is suppose to be a place where you can do virtual things, not criminalize people over frivolous stuff.

    I’ve gone to other games and platforms in the past, and I haven’t seen as much bigotry on this level then I have at Second-Life. Ever. People are much more friendly/relaxed anyway then they are here, and can take a joke or two, the game doesn’t run them. On Second-Life however, it’s like jumping from hoops and kissing toes on the mighty Kings and Queens and don’t you “DARE” step on their highness foot or else attitude.

    What’s the age majority of the JLU? A bunch of grown men and women old enough to have kids, yet their running around on SL calling up people’s own children to confirm their deaths because of a few spongebobcubes?

    Inhumane, and evil. Would the JLU like that if someone(s) called up their sons, or their daughters on their deathbeds to confirm if they were alive or not? Over a game? A bunch of strangers, stalking people RL? Using Avatar information from SL for blackmailing/intimidation purposes?

    Who the HELL do they think they are? They were stalking Tux fellow all over the place in-game too, to the point he had to suspend his account just to get away from their craziness.

    This is the type of people woodburry university students had to put up with/deal with? And now they got smooshed/censored out of existence no thanks to LL butt-budding JLU in all their wickedness and the JLU riding off people’s wants and emotions.

    I’ll tell you one thing…tizzers made the game look fun. I go to SL bored silly and under a bunch of frivolous rules…what’s the point of a virtual world if your prohibited to do virtual things? It’s not very creative, and it limits people in a black and white perspective. No fun, no color…then you have the JLU, stalkers of the internet.
23. 

    Cathiee McMillan
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE,

    I never spewed any hate on the JLU.
    I have been trying to ask you all questions. You all seem to avoid questions about the Legal issues around your Wiki.
    To this date what you or your leader has failed to supply to us.
    1.)Your groups Internet Security Policy
    The amount of SL and RL data you have collected on people and stored it in 1 place. And that your Leader has Said that he is working with Law Enforcement. Would require him to have this type of Security policy. Please post this policy that you signed and read. and giving us the last time it was tested.
    This would be what i am looking for with the ISO 27002 Security Policy
    Reporting Information Security Incidents – 13.1.1
    Guidelines for identifying and reporting a security incident.

    2.) GLE are you all not breaking Lindens TOS with the sharing of SL and RL information in you private chats on your Island. As well as disclosing alts?
    Have you ever told a member in chat or IM that you know so and so’s alt is this person? to help you control griefing?
    You can not Break the TOS and defend it. Doesn’t work that way.
24. 

    GG3
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Your so deep in the game your lost in “Limbo”
25. 

    GreenLantern Excelsior
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @ Tracer

    “And I’ll pick an easy subject for you to answer since you’ve already gone in depth on the subject publicly. What are your feelings on the actions of Sen. Joe McCarthy of ‘McCarthyism’? Because guess what, I can link to your prior discussion and your opinions ARE relevant to this whole situation.”

    McCarthy’s tactics were extreme, but his heart was in the right place. He was trying to protect the US from Communist infiltration. I urge everyone who’s interested to read that thread and form your own opinion. There are several interesting articles linked from that page. Here’s an excerpt:

    “McCarthy’s detractors, Communists, and Soviet sympathizers never anticipated two things: One, the Venona intercepts and their subsequent release; Two, the collapse of Communism and the opening of Soviet files.

    From 1943 until 1980, unbeknownst to virtually everyone, the National Security Agency intercepted every Soviet message going from or to the United States. It was not until 1994 that their existence was even acknowledged, and 1995 when the first 1,400 of 240,000 intercepts were released to the public. Their content was damning and supportive of the contentions of not only McCarthy but Whittaker Chambers, Elizabeth Bentley, Hoover, and others.

    The collapse of Communism opened files of not only internal Soviet spy documents but also gave the FBI, CIA, and American scholars access to the files of the American Communist Party that had been hidden in a Russian warehouse since 1950. The cat was out of the clichéd bag.”

    “Having AR parties is not what Linden Labs intended.”

    How in the world would you know what Linden Lab intended? Are you a Linden Lab employee?

    “You’ve collected and compiled SL and RL information of your targets into a single wiki, which is against the ToS and against cyber laws.”

    The Second Life Terms of Service apply only within Second Life and the Second Life forums. Linden Lab has no jurisdiction outside Second Life. As for the “cyber laws,” I have yet to see a single law cited in any of these discussions. Apparently there’s an opinion that pasting information found in a Google search into a web page is somehow immoral, unethical, or illegal. That is nonsense.

    “I JUST posted chat logs of you volunteer to RL harass someone.”

    I had forgotten about that. I was surprised to see it, and I’m not proud that I said it. An action like that would be unethical. Luckily, it never went any farther than the discussion stage.

    “I urge everyone reading this exchange to look into these matters for themselves and come to their own conclusions.”

    I agree. Don’t go by what Tracer says, because he posts exaggerations and lies. Do some research on your own and talk to some JLU folks.

    “Please note the use of the terms “allegedly” and perhaps in regard to the IP tracking accusation.”

    Tracer believes that he can accuse anyone of anything as long as he uses the words “allegedly” or “perhaps” in the accusation. Again, this is typical Tracer behavior.

    @ Astolat

    “I’d like to know what I specifically said that you interpreted as ‘JLU sucks.’”

    It may have been this, on page 209 of the thread:

    “I take exception with the JLU gathering that kind of medical information for undetermined reasons.
    I also take exception because there are people here who are concerned about their privacy because they have been stalked in SL or RL.
    There is evidence of wrongdoing by the JLU. There are people here who are in contact with LL and local law enforcement about their options.”

    As I said, I looked at 15 pages and didn’t take a lot of time doing it. I just wanted to get a quick idea of how many distinct users were opposed.

    “I’d also like you to refrain from using my name in any future postings you make that would imply I am in some way connected to ANY griefer groups.”

    I don’t even know you other than by reading your posts on SLU. If you believe I’ve said that you’re in cahoots with the griefers, then you’re mistaken.

    @ Senban

    You’re very welcome.
26. 

    GG3
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE

    Excuses. LL’s TOS is not above Real-Life laws, nor does it give you an excuse to abuse them for your own purposes/witch-hunts.
27. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE
    “I had forgotten about that. I was surprised to see it, and I’m not proud that I said it. An action like that would be unethical. Luckily, it never went any farther than the discussion stage.”

    That’s a politician’s answer if ever I heard one. So how many incidents were actually actioned by yourself and others? If they come to light will we see apology as policy once more?

    “McCarthy’s tactics were extreme, but his heart was in the right place.”

    Okay, let’s look at this. Let’s say that for a moment McCarthy’s heart was indeed in the right place. What about the people below him? And the people below them? And so on? Because just as in the McCarthyist era, it only takes a very small number of corrupt people with power to suddenly start adding people to lists just because they voice an opinion or ask a question. How many people were added to the lists of communist party members who were in fact not communists purely because someone wanted to take a competitor or an opponent out of the running? It happened during the McCarthy era, it happened pre-WW2 in Germany and you people do it right now (yes, I’m aware I just broke Godwin’s Law but I’m not comparing you to the Nazis, I’m giving examples of how power can corrupt).

    Now, X Files fans will remember an episode called Travellers. Remember when Agent Dales says “I’m no Communist” and Cohn says “You are if I say you are”. And just like people were able to threaten, intimidate and control the American population through controlling the lists of who was labelled a communist, the JLU are doing exactly the same by controlling who is allowed to log into SL and where they can go when they do. I’m sure there are people in the JLU who believe they’re protecting the grid, just like there were people in the McCarthy era who believed they were protecting their nation but the JLU is riddled with people who are corrupt and morally repugnant and no one voted them into position and thus no one can vote them out. And of course, anyone who goes against them is automatically one of the bad guys (I’m living proof by GLE’s own admission) The only way forward is to abandon the grid to the point where LL’s business is threatened and then they’ll have to do something to protect their own interests. Otherwise they simply don’t care.

    Consider this. I was added to a list of people purely because I have been outspoken about JLU activities. I don’t copybot, I don’t grief, I don’t do anything. Yet I’m on a list because I raise awareness of JLU corruption by writing articles and posting on forums *outside* of SL.

    “Are you now or have you ever been………”
28. 

    Gundel Gaukelei
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    [14:53:28] Pete Linden: Per my note, I appreciate this being off-the-record so that we can speak frankly about it.

    Is it just me mistranslating the term “off-the-record” or …?
29. 

    Marx Dudek
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    “I went through the 15 most recent pages on that SL Universe thread and noted the members who really really really dislike JLU. Here’s the list:”

    No matter how hard I try, I can’t ever get on any of the good lists.
30. 

    Ryokashi
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE

    I never simply posted “JLU sucks”. I gave valid reasons. I showed examples. I think it is a fair assumption to say I was quite annoyed to have multiple accounts suspended by you however. I mean that leaked group notice shows plenty, you mass ARed yet another account of mine, this time for age, just to get me to shut up. The only form of “griefing” you have on me is being a member of The Wrong Hands, which is not a banned group despite what you seem to be insisting.

    I am not against every operation the JLU has taken upon themselves. I am all for your charity work. I am against you collecting other residents real life information and using that information to intimidate them out of opposing you.

    You saying the petition is lies is absolute bullshit. Name ONE THING in the petition that has been shown to be 100% false. If it is the hacked viewers thing, please explain to me why Sairi and WriterOfPoetry were able to spy on us in Superville by locking their voice into the parcel, while they rezzed a chat spy nearby and watched us from the adjacent sim.

    Now that I DO have my account back, I don’t even want to login to it because I know you fucks are going to do everything possible to try and get me banned.
31. 

    Ryokashi
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    And don’t try to deny the logs of Kalel and Maverick editing Skype logs to look like they came from inworld to report them. You yourself admitted they were accurate.
32. 

    Doctor Yootz
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE,
    “Do some research on your own and talk to some JLU folks.”

    The JLU folks were and still are very welcome to discuss that topic with us. Specially Kalel as the leader of the JLU. But so far i havent seen a single post from him.
33. 

    LOL
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE aka “Greatest Looser Extraordinaire”

    1, in your last post it sounds like you are comparing your group to the NSA. Do you actually think the JLU is the NSA of SL? or are you trying to confuse people by going off topic with an innacurate history lesson?

    2, you have avoided this question before, so I will just say it again. Do you have permission from DC COMICS to use that Image as your avatar? Furthermore, do you have anytype of Permission from any comic book press to use thier Chracters, Names, Logos & Trademarks in SL?

    3, Are you really so angry because the actions of your group and yourself have been thrust into the spotlight? Or does the anger come from the fact Ryan Reynolds played the green lantern not you, and the movie TOTALLY SUCKED!

    4, Do you have Green Lantern bed sheets?

    5, Does Kalel come to your house IRL and build pillow forts for the two of you to play super heroes?

    6, to quote your last post, … “How in the world would you know what Linden Lab intended? Are you a Linden Lab employee?”…
    ——> Are you a Linden, Do you know what the lab Intended?

    ??????????
34. 

    /b/
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    I still remember when JLU accused Harrold Railler of beign a griefer when fact is he wasnt fully a griefer, but others and friends of MDV Estates owners were griefing him with Traps, Graphics Card Crashers You Name it…

    Funny thing is that I found out that MDV Estates supports DarkMatter Steamer & All his lil Copybot buddies, not to mention that DarkMatter Steamer has been making more Threats towards my friends account accusing them of griefing threats IN IM, you name it.

    Their Bloodlines Clan has had interactions with his, and for that they are doing illegal things in SL.

    Why would LL allow such people to even remain in SL is beyond me I mean my friend has a full sim maybe two and yet they do not have any illegal content out at all nor do they condone to any illegal actions in their Sim, so why have other griefers doing this for example…

    MDV Estates is a known griefer sim they banned a friend along with harold railler without any type of reason at all only because they accidently exchanged a cuss work Fuc* you to an admin clearly on mistake, banned them from all sims even those who were paying real cash, and they couldn’t visit their land.

    What type of Estate company is this lol!!!

    I get Lulz from knowing what JLU supports, and No I do not condone to griefing in SL either but I Get Lulz too LULZ LULZ!!! /b/ Wut?
35. 

    had enough
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @pixielovestopostrlinfo

    Aww what’s the matter you butthurt little faggot? Your kind has been posting other peoples RL information on the JLU website.

    Why don’t you go suck a furfag.
36. 

    Nelson Jenkins
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @ We

    Thanks for the link.

    @ GreenLantern Excelsior

    So now I’ve confirmed that you have feigned chat logs, further turning more of those “lies” into truths. Are you going to address any of my points yet, or are you too busy spouting this bilge about communism?

    “Having AR parties is not what Linden Labs intended.”
    How in the world would you know what Linden Lab intended? Are you a Linden Lab employee?

    The point still remains: are you implying that Linden Lab intended for groups of vigilantes to abuse the emergency AR kick system to ban people they don’t like using fake chat logs and then DMCA their websites with “your copyrighted content” while you host copyrighted content on your Wiki and use copyrighted trademarks to refer to yourselves?

    “You’ve collected and compiled SL and RL information of your targets into a single wiki, which is against the ToS and against cyber laws.”
    The Second Life Terms of Service apply only within Second Life and the Second Life forums. Linden Lab has no jurisdiction outside Second Life.

    Linden Lab cannot do anything outside of Second Life but they can act on information discovered outside Second Life to perform governance actions in-world. If a sex offender joined Second Life, are you saying they could not do anything about it unless the sex offender committed a TOS violation? It is a private world, Linden Lab has the final say in who can stay. They can ban you for any or no reason.

    As for the “cyber laws,” I have yet to see a single law cited in any of these discussions. Apparently there’s an opinion that pasting information found in a Google search into a web page is somehow immoral, unethical, or illegal. That is nonsense.

    Notwithstanding the obvious privacy laws discussed during the RedZone issue, the law you are looking for is stalking. C.P.C. 646.9(a), like I said before. Really, look it up if you don’t believe me, it applies to the internet as well. Tux could have several members of the JLU arrested for stalking and conspiracy if he wished. Perhaps you did not read my comment at all.

    “I JUST posted chat logs of you volunteer to RL harass someone.”
    I had forgotten about that. I was surprised to see it, and I’m not proud that I said it. An action like that would be unethical. Luckily, it never went any farther than the discussion stage.

    You should run for public office, that’s a good excuse.

    “I urge everyone reading this exchange to look into these matters for themselves and come to their own conclusions.”
    I agree. Don’t go by what Tracer says, because he posts exaggerations and lies. Do some research on your own and talk to some JLU folks.

    We are not allowed to talk to “JLU folks” other than yourself because JLU is in cover-its-ass mode and won’t discuss anything with anyone. And given the laughable counter-arguments you provide, I doubt anyone would gain anything from talking with other JLU members. I have, however, done some research on my own, and concluded the same exact thing. There are research methods other than “read the Wiki and trust it 100%”, which seems to be your only source of information.

    “Please note the use of the terms “allegedly” and perhaps in regard to the IP tracking accusation.”
    Tracer believes that he can accuse anyone of anything as long as he uses the words “allegedly” or “perhaps” in the accusation. Again, this is typical Tracer behavior.

    It’s also typical lawyer, law enforcement, and journalist behavior. You know, those people that JLU always avoid because they find out what’s really rotten in your organization.

    “I’d like to know what I specifically said that you interpreted as ‘JLU sucks.’”
    It may have been this, on page 209 of the thread:
    “I take exception with the JLU gathering that kind of medical information for undetermined reasons.
    I also take exception because there are people here who are concerned about their privacy because they have been stalked in SL or RL.
    There is evidence of wrongdoing by the JLU. There are people here who are in contact with LL and local law enforcement about their options.”

    That doesn’t scream “JLU sucks” to me, it screams “I’m worried that this is getting out of hand”, which is a totally rational response to someone compiling a mostly-public Wiki with compilation of people’s medical history, location, name, et cetera. That is along the lines of Encyclopedia Dramatica and /b/ in general.

    Once again, I expressly forbid you to reference my account name or any of my work in your Wiki.
37. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Part of the problem we have right now is that the JLU have got their fingers in their ears and don’t care. They won’t be persuaded by debate about morals and ethics because they simply don’t have any.

    Therefore the only way forward is to leverage LL itself. We need a concerted, rational approach to make them understand that we won’t log into SL or put money into its economy while they implicitly endorse the JLU and its actions. That means really not logging in and that means writing official letters to LL stating our concerns and what we expect as their customers. Until LL sees a real world effect such as a huge drop in the numbers of people logged in and a huge drop in the economy, they won’t do anything. If you want the JLU out, that’s the way forward. Can someone suggest the best official channels to direct our complaints to LL?

    @Ryokashi
    “Now that I DO have my account back, I don’t even want to login to it because I know you fucks are going to do everything possible to try and get me banned.”

    Exactly one of the reasons why I don’t log in any more. The JLU added me to their list purely because I was an outspoken opponent of their methods and motives and not for anything I did inworld. If I don’t log in, there’s no valid way they can say I did anything that constitutes a bannable offence.
38. 

    Anguissette
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @GLE

    Thank you for trawling the SLU in order to collect data, then collating it into a creepy little list, then naming me here in that list. And thanks for proving you didn’t pass first grade math and are really out of touch with logic and reality in the way you reached your incorrect conclusions about what the stats behind that list meant. Thank you also for trolling here compulsively in a stalkerish way, and taking such a truly creepy personal interest in the other people who post messages, and then nastily replying to them. And thank you for all the other creepy things you do that make us all feel so sick that we turn a little green and want to throw something in anger. And thank you too for making us all hope to god you never start stalking us or anyone we care about.

    Also, thank you for being such a prince among men, and for being so nice to women, children, the disabled and the dying, and always so polite and courteous to everyone else as well. AND YES, THAT’S SARCASM.

    You, sir, are no superhero. Superheroes conduct themselves with honour. Superheroes protect the vulnerable, the sick, the weak and the helpless. They respect the fairer sex too. But you don’t. You just stalk and harass and niggle them. Shame on you! You have sold out the lofty and noble ethos of superheroes. And you continue to attack others in petty, desperate, ignoble ways. I can’t imagine any true superhero doing such a thing.

    Instead of just standing there pointing at people who disagree with you and yelling back childish replies, take a good hard look at yourself. Think it through. Realise that people aren’t criticising you out of boredom or spite. They have REAL concerns. Justifiable concerns. They are genuinely disturbed by you and your companions’ behaviours, which go so far beyond the norm that we wonder what other disturbing, abnormal thing you might do next. You have clearly lost sight of the big picture. So stand back, and try, try, to refocus on it.

    I hope you come to the right conclusion, and change your ways, really I do. I am an eternal optimist, and I really do have high hopes that wrongdoers can reform.

    But if you don’t, I hope you sweat on it, fearing that knock on the door that means the law is there to close down your little stalker ring and that heinous electronic ‘stalker wall’ database we all know you and your buddies have.

    If you’re a gentleman, you will accept this advice like one. If you’re not a gentleman though…well, I guess I shall see what kind of reply this gets. I am sure, though, that it will say more about the kind of person you are than the kind of person I am.
39. 

    Bunjie
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @had enough

    Bro, Bro, Bro enough with the furfag insult it’s “old hat”, this is 2011 and most here are probably what you seem to find repulsive for no other reason than “because”, so find a new one.

    @Nelson Jenkins

    “Once again, I expressly forbid you to reference my account name or any of my work in your Wiki.”

    I look forward to seeing it in the next leak lol.

    @Everyone else

    You might want to think about not partaking in his magicians act, it’s a slight of hand trick by allowing him deliberately post RL info on SLU to get temporarily banned, this after he was told several times not to do so and looks to be his way out.

    To me It seems to be a trick to take your eyes off what the public might see as “more legitimate” boards at the SLU (no offence), because SLU is populated with stores and brand avatars who residents follow blindly.. not least for the free gifts!

    I have the sense GLE is distracting you here away from high traffic prying public eyes and once click wonders, while sending “puppets” and other Green Lantern group members to bump old comment’s to make their group “look better” in the public eye and in Linden Labs future eyes.

    All this to save the Green Lantern group and it’s use of iconic imagery, so they can feel they have some value in life.

    Basically it looks like hes taking the fall here where not many will visit (no offence), while you’re all distracted with attacking with him, and he can just denigrate the argument into “that site sucks anyway”, and “it’s full of bad apples”, while SLU stagnates and he claims people don’t care as it’s gears slow down.

    But I guess I’ll get in on this game,

    I expressly forbid you to reference my family in any future accretion of my loud mouth work about your Wiki.
40. 

    Bunjie
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    If what I said above doesn’t make sense, now that I read it again it’s a little messy but it’s because I’ve been chugging heart burn “gaviscon”, I feel drowsy lol.

    /me curls up in a ball and goes to sleep.
41. 

    We
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Wow GLE actually supported McCarthy? That’s a new low. Though he also seems to support Joe Arpaio, so maybe this is a low, but not that new.
42. 

    SlShapeshifter
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Better cover myself….
    I expressly forbid you to reference my account name or any of my work in your Wiki.
43. 

    Nelson Jenkins
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @ Bunjie

    It gives me a little more leverage if I want to file a DMCA. I’ve done it before in-world, I’d be happy to do it with their webhost and domain name provider (i.e. they lose their hosting until they find a new one and their domain name forever). Glad people are starting to catch on though.
44. 

    Tux
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    So I sent Kalel and email requesting that I be completely removed from his wiki. To To which he replied (yay).

    I’ll summarise it as I will be needing it as a whole and undisclosed. But basically he said this:

    - Your facts are wrong.
    - You have made wild accusations.

    - Do not contact me again.
    - You have harassed me.
    - You arranged for my systems to be hacked.
    - You arranged for the content to be stolen.
    - You arranged for the content to be made public.
    - You constructed a tracking system.
    - You tracked IP addresses of my friends.

    - I give you notice not to contact me again.
    - Contacting me violates anti-stalking laws.

    My facts are from the already leaked information, which has been approved as fact by two JLU publicly and three in IM (thats right they have spoken to me *gasp*). And the brief contact we have had is also not harrasment (even by LL’s TOS). He has now redacted his accusation of me hacking his system in preference to saying I arranged it. Then I arranged for it to get stolen and published. Which is why I am waiting for the next leak?

    Now a fact, I did make a tracking system. But tracking IP’s? I would love to hear that explanation.

    I accept his notice of me not to contact him directly. However I wonder if its seen as harassment if he is contacted in a legal form? And it doesn’t violate anti stalking laws when my personal information is being held.

    Kalel, if you read this I would like you to remember, the internet is my business and your fantasies are not the law!
45. 

    Dontspill McGinnis
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    @ GLE

    I guess the “open debate” part didn’t work out so good for you, but it is nice to see that you still believe that somewhere, somehow, there are residents that support your group and It’s actions.
    From the information that Tux posted last, I’d say that number was exactly 45, and dwindling.
    Care to pass further comment, for comedic value if nothing else?
46. 

    Tracer Graves
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    “McCarthy’s tactics were extreme, but his heart was in the right place. He was trying to protect the US from Communist infiltration”

    That’s all I wanted to hear GLE. Thanks for playing
47. 

    Astolat Dufaux
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Yes, I said “I take exception with the JLU gathering that kind of medical information for undetermined reasons.
    I also take exception because there are people here who are concerned about their privacy because they have been stalked in SL or RL.
    There is evidence of wrongdoing by the JLU. There are people here who are in contact with LL and local law enforcement about their options.”

    How is that saying the JLU sucks?

    If you remove the words “I take exception,” everything I said there is factual.

    I DIDN’T SAY “JLU SUCKS BECAUSE…”

    Good grief… a person can’t even express concern — somehow that makes me a dangerous dissident.
48. 

    Tracer Graves
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Astolat, are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
49. 

    lolol
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    the JLU and the SLU need each other.this gives the drama queens something to shrill about.
50. 

    hobo kelly
    

    Aug 28th, 2011
    

    Woodbury, Woodbury,
    we sure need you now…
    Memes are required,
    to bury some sow…
    Hogs and dogs and JLU
    with a little help
    They will soon be through.
    Wrong Hands and
    strong hands
    Free Avatars, all…
    Now is the time.
    This is The Call…

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