The Alphaville Herald

435 Responses to “Interview with Anonymous, on Alphaville’s Bondage, Discipline & Sadomasochism Community”

1. 

   Billy Bob Thornton
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   not to Mention that he was Banned from Every Home in the BDSM community…and dyerbrook…nice way to snake out of the Gorean comments…;) but then again…ignorance of a subject should call for a silent tongue
2. 

   Billy Bob Thornton
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   oh BTW ..one question that has not arisen ..just how old …or young are you dyerbrook?…I personnaly am 37…but then again….A/all that know Me …already know that
3. 

   toy
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   toy can assume You dont wish to come to her home and talk?
   toy can also assume that You know it all so what anyone may say to contradict You is wrong?
   Are You honestly that selfcentered that You close out any offer to discuss things, other than here. where it seems You have choosen this option as Your personal soapbox for recruitment to Your narrowminded ideals?
   Are people to accept what You say as the final word??
   Are You the messiah??
   oh my… this does put a certain cult slant on Your ideas…..
   but please ramble on, toy finds You both amusings and rather pathetic

   the following is a small offering of what Gor is. as a Gorean it is what this girl truely believes in and any attempt to change her mind will only be met with pity and scorn

   “You may judge and scorn the goreans if you wish. Know as well, however, that they judge and scorn you.
   They fulfill themselves as you do not. Hate them for their pride and power.
   They will pity you for your shame and weakness.”
   —- What is Gor? ……..
   Gor was created in the novels of John Norman,who presented an alternative style of humanity….
   Scientifically in the books, Gor is a planet, similar to Earth, on the opposite side of the sun.
   It is hidden from view from the Earth bythe “Sun-Shield Theory”,
   which states that the planet Gor has the same orbitital plane as Earth,
   and maintains that orbit as to always keep the Sun as a direct block between Earth and Gor..
   It is a barbaric world, ruled by steel and concerned with honor, where the institution of human slavery is an accepted and integral part of the Gorean culture……. In todays society however, Gor also exists on Earth, as a daily part of life for those who live by the philosophy and beliefs set forth in the books of Gor…….Gor is a State of Mind, a set of beliefs. Gor exists in the head, and inthehearts of Goreans. We choose to follow the teachings and codes, the honor and beliefs in real life…
   Goreans, both men and women, are deeply passionate and emotional people, and openly express that passion….Their deep love for life and freedom of their natural selves is neither hidden or suppressed……. Gor is about honesty as to who you are and why……. It is a life of free men, women and slaves…….
   A life that’s built with Honor, Trust, Respect and Loyalty.

   Gor is Unjust. Gor is Unfair. Gor is just Gor.

   jashi Va,

   falara kajira toy
4. 

   Darksoul
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   You’re right, it’s NOT a TOS Violation to spoof another Sim, however it is one to call a fellow Sim a N—-r. Keep digging a hole. But, dyerbrook, if you’re still in game, I graciously offer the same opportunity that toy has to come visit My home, and learn for yourself that I’m not violent nor the leader of some nebulous cult. My sub and I both enjoy having company, as well as a good discussion. Please do pay U/us the honor of a visit. You might even have a chance to meet My RL wife while you’re there, she’s quite the hostess as well.
5. 

   brigit
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   all that know me…..know that fun is my game…and i invite you as well to come and visit and talk…..

   lets see if you are up to the challenge…i am assuming that when you have visited these homes of those you claim to know you perchance came in with the same closed mind you have exhibited here…which explains your lack of seeing all the funny things that go on there…….the great pumpkin robbery……the holding of teddy bears hostage over the swimming pools…..many many stories and jokes are told daily just like in vanilla houses….OOPS…..are we sounding like everyone else again…..

   are we sensual ….you bet we are…*sits with legs crossed…her very short skirt rising up on her tanned thighs…*…..are we sexual….some are and some are not……it is a matter of choice….are we violent….nothing is ever done to anyone here that is not discussed …and agreeded upon ahead of time…with delicious outcomes…are we bigots…..or do we discriminate….no ………those coming in that have in their bios…..that they hate fags…are educated and booted…..bad language is not tolerated…no cursing and if it is done they are booted…….

   show me some bios in the BDSM Community that poke fun at and make light of the vanilla world…

   cheer time…..rah rah rah….sis boom bah…. you’re just mad…your life is sad….ha ha ha…

   Oh and BTW…it was myself ….Davis…Navada… and Anjal (brother and sisters) that were sitting around one day playing around and decided to start…SOS…Society Of Subs….not because we thought poor subs….but to have a place to let those that had not decided what they wanted to do yet have a place to stay and just have fun….no pressures from anything….we skill in these places and just sit back and talk…….

   that is what safehouses are…..a place to learn and live with other subs like yourself….about the lifestyle YOU AS A GROWN ADULT have chosen to indulge in…….

   Tag Your it….no tag backs….*runs from the room her thick soft curls trailing down her back*
6. 

   Darksoul
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   uh oh….the SOS…..that evil subbie union that intends to dance nekkid on the decaying bodies of Us Dom/mes after you strike and let Us starve to death cuz We gots no cooking skills…..must find the leadres and be violent with them, strike fear in them so they don’t strike………DOM/MES UNITE!!!!! Oh yeah…….that’s right, We are united into a far reaching evil cult……pfffftttttt
7. 

   Shi
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   A lesbian with whom I discussed my concerns, after expressing dismay that so many women could submit themselves in this fashion, said “but no one would buy the game if you couldn’t RP the way you want.” OK, fair enough. But would we see so many parents and soccer moms and Bible Group dads buying this game if it showed Lady Julianna with her whip and a scanty outfit, in front of a prison cell with a human posed as a bound pony? Hardly….

   ~smiles~ “advertisment is a funny thing”…personally, i think …a sexy slut with her legs parted, ~kneeling~ ~licking the leather boots of her Master ~ or perhaps …a slave, flickering the pearl of her Mistress as she takes the “nadu” posistion? ~giggles~ that is my opinion ” of what would sell”..~hiding a grin~..as for “everything” else that has been said …well, its silly! a ploy for attention.

   This girl does not care what you or anyone else thinks…i love “my cult” and i love my “abuse”..~laffs~…~tracing her parted lips with her tongue~

   ~rape my soul~

   love, shi xo
8. 

   Shi
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   position**

   ~smiles~

   ~curtsies~
9. 

   gyrryl
   

   Dec 25th, 2003
   

   ~giggles~
   i have never heard the gerbil anecdote, can someone fill me in?
   ~giggles~

   ~shakes with fear~
   oh, a dungeon!…oh my…please no one lock me into a TSO dungeon and whip me with an imaginary whip…oh, that is scaring me…oh stop…
   ~shakes with fear~

   “The group members constantly use violent play and subordinate others and engage in a 24/7 propaganda barrage to prove that is not what they do.” ~dyerbrook~

   yes one time Master Dante slapped me so hard, my sim landed in the lot next door…oh, He’s mean..oh ooo…i’m scared…someone save me from the evil Dom/mes…help…help…i am just a wee innocent victim of a propaganda barrage…ooo, my weak mind, unable to resist…ooo…someone save me

   (wait, i forgot we don’t have a sense of humor )
10. 

    Alina Davis
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    This posting stream is a very interesting read and I had no intensions of posting but I do have a few points to make… I am a Domme and have recently moved to the Thorns and Petals neighbourhood because I have friends there… I do go to lots in the Rose Thorn Gardens area as well.. when I skill with Mine, I receive a lot of IMs from “vanillas” (people not in BDSM)

    1.) “vanilla” people have IMd Me in game and asked if I’d be their Mistress and teach them of BDSM – not the other way around
    2.) “vanilla” people have IMd Me in game and asked Me to tie them up and do what I want to them (give Me a break)
    3.) I’ve been IMd on “vanilla” shopping lots and asked if I want to be “Beeped” (you figure out what the beeps for )
    4.) I’ve been approached by many “vanilla” honestly asking to know more about the BDSM community and asking Me not to reveal their intentions to anyone… openly telling Me they don’t want their friends to know they are actively looking into BDSM because of their fear of what theses so called “vanilla” friends will say
    5.) I have been IMd by “vanilla” lot owners (after some “vanilla” reading My bio has started harassing Me in room) and asked if I’m ok… if I’d like for the harassing person to be kicked

    I guess I’m just confused why O/our community is being attacked here in this post… what is suppose to have happened to others by U/us (meaning BDSM people) has happened to Me from “vanilla” people that I’ve never met let alone talked to. I don’t intend on moving from AV, this is My home and where My friends are.

    I am curious about the cult aspect continuously brought up when talking about the BDSM community… I have never been accused of being in a cult before LOL so I have a question to ask: do these points show that the group of people are a cult?

    The person in question was harassed because he did not:
    1.) conform to the leaders way of thinking
    2.) continuously did the opposite of others in the group even after being ordered not to
    3.) he was disciplined because he had a difference of opinion than the leader and expressed it in the open for all to see
    4.) he is being accused of being an “instigator” within the group he is in
    5.) his family members are also being “tagged” as instigators

    Merry Christmas to E/everyone!
11. 

    Stella Luna
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    A couple of points, because I feel like airing my own opinion.

    First, I’m finding it tiresome that, virtually everywhere you go these days, not only do you find that the environment is toxic and unsafe for kids, but, even worse, NO ONE CARES. Jeesh, this IS supposed to be a game where young teens can play. BDSM people don’t need protection, kids DO. Yet you BDSM folks, with the entire internet at your disposal, apparently feel that your ‘right’ to be present and vocal everywhere trumps all. If you did all voluntarily remove yourselves to another city, or from the game entirely, that would affirm that you do in fact understand the principles of respect and honor, as it applies to others. At the least it would demonstrate that you understood that adult-only games are, perhaps, best conducted in adult-only venues. I know I’ll be hearing outraged cries about individual rights. I know all about them. I also know that, in civil society, people take time to consider that just because they can doesn’t mean that they should.

    Other points:

    Posted by Billy Bob Thornton:
    “I am Gorean lil lady..and you were correct…you know nothing of Gor…yet you have tha audasity to speak of it…silence your tounge…”

    Well, really, where are all the free-speech advocates now?

    Worst of all was “toy’s” paean to slavery. Trying to turn the idea of slavery to represent true freedom is so bizarre, so twisted, that I’m thinking I shall ever associate it with BDSM. If you look ever so briefly at the history of REAL slaves, it was not a voluntary condition, and in fact by actions that cost more than anyone can calculate, people in these circumstances frequently made it clear, in stories, poems, songs, whatever outlet they could use, that while their physical life could be constrained against their will, their hearts and souls would be free, and that was something to be treasured. Everything toy said in her post is a ludicrous perversion of that simple idea. It’s just dressing up the notion that it’s liberating to throw your soul away; just make sure you pick the VERY BEST trash can, one that’s worthy. Actually, my first thought after reading that one was “My God! Maxis didn’t need to bring pets to TSO, they were already here, in these BDSM houses!” Except they look like Sims. And I’ll put money on my dog having more dignity, and sounding less ridiculous.
12. 

    Linderella
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    Stella Luna,
    Since you came to my home and acknowledged you are a friend of Dyerbrook’s and in fairness to my assorted BDSM family members, I will not and I ask that they do not respond to any of your remarks since it is known that you are one of Dyerbrook’s cult-like followers.
    My only rebuttal will be to the following:
    “Posted by Billy Bob Thornton:
    “I am Gorean lil lady..and you were correct…you know nothing of Gor…yet you have the audacity to speak of it…silence your tongue…”
    Well, really, where are all the free-speech advocates now?” ~Stella Luna~

    Billy didn’t say not to speak, he said to silence your tongue if you are not educated on the subject at hand. It is always a good idea not to speak of something you do not know. So your statement that he was speaking against free-speech is ridiculous, uninformed and inaccurate.
13. 

    Billy Bob Thornton
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    ty linde…and yep..on the nail head…as far as leaving…respect….what do you know of respect…wheres all the parents of these 12 to 16 yr olds that ask to cyber w U/us…give Me a break…My kids…do Not play this game unsupervised…as it is rated Teen…hmm does everyone remember quite what that rating means??
    as far as the slavery deal….pls…do educate yourself a lil bit…not shut up…but educate yourself of Gor..and the slaves role in it pls…as W/we are not supporting the old style of slavery…as Our slaves…*Chose* to be such…but then…I am sure you already know this
14. 

    Billy Bob Thornton
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    oh sorry..just a footnote..not that My words get twisted…that timeperiod w the 12 to 16 yr olds was when I was ~vanilla~..and roomie in a romanve lot
15. 

    Billy Bob Thornton
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    *romance
16. 

    shi
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    i, for one am quite happy with Maxis’ decision to add such an imaginitive feature as ~puppy play~.

    ~laffs~

    besides….i want to be whipped, flogged, paddled, spanked, cropped…..i love my ~play~

    and not to forget, my very favorite, being a Master’s masochist….~knife play~

    Very yummy! ~smiles coyly~

    Love,
    Shi xo
17. 

    toy
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    toy is soooo pleased dyerbrook found a single, likeminded friend……. must be one of those ‘soccer moms’ he has spoke of in the past
    stella, are you trying to ‘recruit’ toy from what she believes in? are You also a messiah, one who attacks things she knows nothing about?
    You point your finger at toys beliefs and tell this girl she is wrong in her beliefs…… how presumptious to think what you believe is right and someone else is wrong
    but toy will keep being Gorean, afterall it was the last choice this girl made, and toy couldnt be happier toy wouldnt care if no one else came to the Gorean lifestyle, its not something one simply decides to be, its inside a Gorean.. toy would also ask what knowledge You have of Gor? have You read the books? have You studied the philosophy? It is very easy to sit safely at You keyboard and tell others that their beliefs are wrong… it is also easy to ignore these rantings of the uninformed
    In the past toy also has had IM’s by people asking ‘how can I be Gor?’.. toy always answers those IM’s….. ‘It’s not something one decides to become.. one is Gor or they arent, its that simple’… that certainly doesnt sound like ‘recruiting’ to this girl
    Point fingers and spout uninformed meanderings all you wish….. toy will sit back and be content, happy and above all Gorean
    In closing toy will add her letter she wrote to her Mistress at the 5th month being collared

    To Mistress,

    Your girl writes to You today as she reflects on her past month’s service to You. She thanks You for keeping her,
    for allowing her at your feet, the place she is happiest of all.
    There are so many things she is grateful for in Your collar…
    she offers a few thoughts to You and hopes You find her words pleasing.
    Your girl cherishes the time we share, Mistress. Things, at times,
    have kept you away from Your girl these months.
    She knows there were occasions when it was difficult for You to be with her,
    but You somehow knew when she needed You most, be it emotionally or spiritually…
    and You managed to find a way to care well for Your property. She values each precious moment with You,
    and strives to make you happy and comfortable.You taught her focus, Mistress.
    She was a bit lost before she discovered this place. She is lost no longer, she knows You own her,
    resonating deep in her heart and soul. You gave her a purpose, more than just serving You when You are here.
    It lingers throughout the day and night, reminding her that she serves You in all she does,
    even when we are not together. She cannot thank You enough for giving her purpose and focus.

    Mistress, You gave her confidence. She cannot thank You enough for believing in her ability to learn,
    and to tackle projects which intimidate her. You allow her to stretch and grow in so many ways.
    As each challenge is met, You do not let your girl coast on her past success,
    but expect her to continue to strive to produce work of equal or higher value.

    Your girl is grateful, Mistress that You allow her to reach out to friends.
    At times, there is a need deep inside for friends who are peers, who understand Your girl’s turmoils or doubts,
    who help keep her focused and on the right path, or simply wish to share in her joy.
    They provide her with inspiration and motivation when she feels she is struggling,
    and it is a wonderful feeling to see them find happiness and grow in their own journey.
    Thank You, Mistress, for allowing her to cultivate friendships which are supportive and rewarding.

    You allow her to express her feelings and ideas. Knowing we come from such vastly different backgrounds,
    she is grateful that You find her opinions of worth and her thoughts on a subject have merit.
    You also taught her the difference in knowing when and how to share her feelings and opinions,
    and that is a lesson she will always treasure.

    Thank You for finding her of value and for encouraging her development,
    for guiding her to areas of growth that will please You. For making her try new things,
    for exploring with her……for exploring her! *grins*

    You have given this girl rules and guidelines for behavior which will please You.
    This girl is grateful that You will accept no less from her than to be obedient,
    and pleasing within the spectrum of these policies and of Your rules. You hold Your girl accountable,
    You accept no excuses, and are consistent in Your corrections, so that this girl may continue to learn.
    You are steadfast in Your expectations that a girl belonging to You be obedient and pleasing,
    she promises to strive her hardest to be what You wish her to be.
    Thank You, Mistress. Your girl is so appreciative of the punishments You grant by Your own hand.
    Knowing her as You do, You know dang well how her heart and belly ache
    when she thinks she has displeased You.
    There are the times You allow us discussion so that she understands the purpose for Your demands.
    She thanks You for your decisions to explain to her and to allow her to reflect on her behavior.
    Then there are the times when You punish her with no discussion at all.
    Those lessons, too, are learned quickly as she desperately wants to get back in Your good graces.
    Thank You, Mistress for teaching her how she can better serve You.

    Words cannot express the feeling when You allow her at Your feet
    when she knows there are hundreds of other girls who would love to be there.
    She never doubts for an instant that her position there is a gift from You.
    You make it clear to her that You expect certain things from her
    and she knows that if she does not meet those requirements, another girl will.
    She thanks You for never allowing her to get lazy or to take You for granted,
    or get secure enough to slack off in her service to You. She aches so to please You, Mistress…..
    always and forever to please you. Above all else, Mistress, thank you for being the woman you are,
    and bringing out the slave in her.

    Your humble slave,
    toy
18. 

    Darksoul
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    To quote stella “you BDSM folks, with the entire internet at your disposal, apparently feel that your ‘right’ to be present and vocal everywhere” Why yes, stella I do feel it’s My right to be anywhere and as vocal as I want. It seems it’s you My dear who wants to turn the clock back, if not to the days of slavery at least to the early 1960′s. I’m assuming from your tone that you would be most comfortable in saying, “Darksoul is (pick one) pagan, BDSM, has a vampire fetish…..so He needs to sit at the back of the bus and keep His mouth shut……and I don’t want Him to drink from My fountain either. I like many O/others here are intelligent enough to monitor My kid’s online time and know what sites they visit and what games they play…..are you? I bet you have one of those cute little bumper stickers that say “my child is an honor student, blah, blah”…..that’s really nice….and I bet you consider yourself a feminist too….ain’t that just sooooooo cuuuute?
19. 

    Stella Luna
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    Come on, folks, is this the best you can do? Linderella, I liked your post the best. Why didn’t you tell all? I visited you to see if you’d help me play a prank on Dyer. You refused, which was fine. Yes, I’m friends with Dyer, and it’s kind of amusing that he spent an hour on my lot yesterday telling me his views about BDSM, and I was unconvinced. What changed my mind was reading these posts.

    Um, last I noticed, telling people to ‘hold their tongues’, about anything, is an attempt to close down the dialogue. Maybe I’m wrong. And I don’t really need to educate myself about ‘slavery’. I have a dictionary too. All you’re saying is that your ‘group’ has managed to make up your own definition of slavery. Works for you, not for me.

    Frankly, however, these posts are becoming a bore. I skipped the mistress letter, I failed to see the relevance. Darksoul resorted to a personal attack, which I’ll wave aside because what’s more important is that he missed the point completely. It’s not about having the right to be somewhere or not, that’s not in dispute. What’s revealing is your zeal to make sure your presence IS everywhere, whether kids are around or not, just because that’s the way you want it. Is this what being grown-up has come to? “Kids, move aside, because the world is my playground and you’re out.” Actually, that’s probably the way it will be, it’s true that few seem to be concerned. It is, in fact, not much of a personal issue for me at the moment. My kid’s too young for the Internet at all, lol, too young for an honor roll, too. But I’d sure hate to see the day when he comes home from school with a BDSM pamphlet, saying “Look what we learned about today…”

    Anyway, as I said before, it would be interesting to see if anyone can cough up a cogent reply.
20. 

    Darksoul
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    Stella, why do you contradict yourself?

    From one post: “Yet you BDSM folks, with the entire internet at your disposal, apparently feel that your ‘right’ to be present and vocal everywhere trumps all.”

    From your next post: “It’s not about having the right to be somewhere or not, that’s not in dispute.”

    You can’t have it both ways sweetie. Which is it? Do I have a right to be anywhere I like or must I sit at the back of the bus. And My last post wasn’t really a personal attack, but sarcasm pointed toward those of your narrow minded ilk. Trust Me, the post I thought about WAS a personal attack and I refrained. Hmmm, guess they turned off your sarcasm detector in prep school?

    Have a nice day dear and come back when you can debate with U/us, not yourself. Self-contradiction ain’t pretty when it’s in print for A/all to read.

    And BTW, hold your tongue if you have no knowledge of the subject does not end a discourse, it’s an invitation from My friend Billy to learn more. Now learn what STFU means….that one will truly end a discourse Be Well

    Darksoul

    “What I am is what I am are you what you are or what?” – Edie Brickell
21. 

    toy
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    why of course stella. skip over what YOU assume to be irrelevant, but toy wont skip any of your rambling…… its juist to cute

    so tell this girl. are you sent to free this girl Abe?? whether she wishes to be or not…. how presumptious can one be???

    be damned what others believe unless it conforms to what you believe…. that about sums up your viewpoint so be sure not to post again since since what anyone else may say is opposite of your beliefs….. if toy was to ‘conform’ to what you believe to be right…. wouldnt that make this girl as much of a slave as she is now? to follow blindly what someone decides is right?

    toy would still be a slave but a VERY unhappy one

    hmmmmmmm…… toy will also add a bit more of her beliefs…… so be sure not to read the following stella

    The Tao of a slave girl
    The slave girl follows the Tao. She walks her path in perfection.
    As the flowers, she bends against the wind’s strength, Thus her beauty endures.
    Freed from illusions, she sees truth. The constructs of ego are cast off.
    The contrivances of self are abandoned. Without modesty or shame, she stands as herself.
    Like the water, she adapts and yields. As her will is bent, thus does she overtake.
    In being conquered, she wins her greatest victory. Without sword or shield, she pierces the heart.
    The chains upon her are heavy, yet her way is light. Though in bondage, she is yet free.
    She owns nothing, yet obtains everything. She becomes nothing, and thus becomes everything.
    She is endlessly amenable, and finds her center. In losing herself, thus does she find herself.
    Her love is without reservation; Without reservation, it may be taken by any.
    It is a well without bottom, a spring that does not dry up. The more it is taken, the more she gives.
    While remaining ceaseless, it stays pure. Because it is pure, it is without reservation.
    Deprived of striving, she does not pursue happiness; Thus, happiness comes to her.
    In the thousand-fold choices, her purpose is clear. Though chaos abounds, she has order.
    She knows her place, and thus moves everywhere. She knows her purpose, thus happiness dwells within her.

    jashi Va

    falara kajira toy
22. 

    toy
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    hmmmmmmmmm…….. to quote…..
    ~Anyway, as I said before, it would be interesting to see if anyone can cough up a cogent reply.~
    toy assumes by ‘a cogent reply’ one that agrees with You.. so sorry but toy may be a slave but toy can think for herself. toy does not to wish to be a disciple of dyerbrooks warped ideals as it appears you have become
23. 

    Billy Bob Thornton
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    ok..so you want to go with that route…like Mom always said..”If you dont have something nice to say to someone…just keep quiet”….and as I recall…W/we didnt start this ..oh…and I am sure that Most moms have set that one across your ears
24. 

    toy
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    hmmmmm. toy thinks of another pertinent quote that appears to be fitting to any who wont read something because of ‘narrow minded’ thinking

    “You cant teach pigs to fly”
25. 

    Rory Gallagher
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    Seems to me Alina’s account of her experiences in the game has provided interesting proof of Dyerbrook’s point that the BDSMers recruit. Look at all the responses you get from the “vanilla people” to your exhibitionist and blatant profiles. If you didn’t have profiles like that flaunting the BDSM thing, you wouldn’t get those types of IMs, would you,hmmm? Seems to work pretty good to recruit folks to your scene, even more than you like, and even the types you don’t find appetizing. And how can you expect them to understand your intricate belief system, that seems more complicated than the most orthodox forms of the world’s major religions?
26. 

    toy
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    OOOOooo…. it seems dyerbrook has another recruit hehehehe…… toy would like one informed person to step forward and state if, and when they were recruited into BDSM or Gor

    there are none

    people who come to BDSM are doing what they want, not being ‘recruited’ and rory.; read back it is NOT any in the BDSM/Gor community that started this. who started it is those who want to restrict or control our rights of free speech and our right to be where we choose. and that isnt at ‘the back of the bus’ please be informed before speaking of things you know nothing about
    LEARN

    Lessons Learned

    I have always believed that each relationship, good or bad, teaches us something about ourselves. The lessons learned from each encounter are priceless. My relationships in online Gor have taught me some of the most valuable (and difficult) lessons of my life.

    I have learned that there is a difference between being proud…and being prideful.

    I have learned that in the phrase “Free Woman,” the emphasis is on “woman”….. not on “free.”

    I have learned that not everyone is as honest as I am…. nor do they wish to be.

    I have learned that my truths are just that…. mine.

    I have learned that sometimes we speak not to be heard… but because we need to say it aloud.

    I have learned that enemies are sometimes friends… in disguise.

    I have learned that if we allow ourselves to look closely at an enemy…. we are sometimes surprised to find….. an ally.

    I have learned that “you can’t teach pigs to sing.”

    I have learned that those who wish to learn, will… with or without guidance… and those who do not wish to learn, won’t…. no matter how much guidance is offered.

    I have learned that while we must walk through the fire to touch the magic.. sometimes plunging headlong into the fire… only lands us in hot water.

    I have learned that admitting our failures and owning them takes tremendous strength… and makes us stronger.

    I have learned that the honor of a man is in the strength of his will… and the honor of a woman is in the strength of her heart.

    I have learned that those who sweep us off our feet… are usually the same ones who drop us on our butts.

    I have learned that while exploding passion is exhilirating… it is also momentary.

    I have learned that the quiet, smoldering loves are the most profound.

    I have learned that even between those who care… where we assume they know what we mean… that is not always true.

    I have learned that sometimes the most underused two words in the english language… “I’m sorry,”… are sometimes the most important.

    I thought I had learned that my ability to forgive was boundless…

    Last night, I learned that is not true… there is a limit to my forgiveness…

    Some things are unforgiveable.

    And in that lesson… in allowing myself not to forgive… I find freedom.

    jashi Va

    falara kajira toy
27. 

    Tygar
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    I feel I must Say something in this throng of information…I know that their are many out there that do not understand BDSM , Gor, or any of the ways in which I live My life…And yes I say My life for it is a huge part of My REAL life…I have had a slave for 3 years…She obeys Me and is Loved by Me…A love deeper than Most marrages of today. There is a connection beyond words between Master and slave…A love that you cannot know unless you have been there. I do not nor will I ever “recruit” anyone to my lifestyle….I will speak of it Passionately however…For it is My heart. My bio is my bio…Part of the “freedom of speach”….It presents a clear and present danger to no one. I speak of BDSM and Gor only with those that are interested. I do agree with shi , that these posts are mostly a shameless way to try to “con” alot of BDSMer’s to going to Sociolotron. Which, I must say is a fun place, But I wont be leaving AV for it. W/we of Rose Thorn Gardens, and Thorns and Petals, and all the other BDSM/Gor communities are who WE are. You dont have to like Us. If you are worried about your kids, then teach them. They will grow and learn and make their own way. I fault no one for dislikeing BDSM…but I cant say I dont like shark meat…I’ve never had it…Same goes with BDSM…Dont say its evil and wrong…untill you learn about it….

    Http://www.cuffs.com
    Http://www.castlerealm.com
    http://www counter-urth.com

    There are 3 websites to read and learn from. If you truely wish to understand U/us. If not Leave U/us be. We do not mettle in your affairs, Do not mettle in O/ours

    I thank you….

    Sincerly
    Tiger …*Claw mark left behind*
28. 

    Carmen Ray
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    Greetings to A/all, Darksoul, Bill, Lin, Tiger, brigit, shi, toy, and do pardon A/all others of the comunity which have writen well thought out posts, Do pardon if I do ramble on or loose My thoughts happening of Most times but those who know Me know this.

    First off, of I have known when I was missive of going to skill houses and being harrased by ignort people, of one that sticks in My mind of PROUDAMAIRICANMARIN it was most amuseing to Me even one that say they fight for O/our countrys freadoms would be bigited and closed minded.

    dyerbrook I do pitty you in many ways, for you do say a cult for W/we say it is a life style to you consider the amosh a cult, or the budist a cult, they have differnt ways of liveing their lives and do not ask others to join nor interupt their way of life as do W/we as of the same.

    The sexual play of the lifestyle is to each T/their own some wish light to none others wish for stronger deeper needs to be meet, But it is neither abusive nor anything close to tramatising, there is always a safe word used in play when said word is said the scene stops still and T/they talk about what has happend, safe sane consentual.

    Of a slave to a submissive the slave still makes the first choise to become a slave so they do have rights some say it is a deeper submission, altho never a slave Myself I will not comment but of the One I was truely and completly devoted to I was truely at peace and happy being with Her.

    The lifestyle is differnt for A/all yes there are some arguement in the family from time to time but Do know this W/we do love and stick up for each other in time of need, do you release how the city of Alphaville would change if the BDSM comunity really left, Or better yet stayed but boycotted all houses others then O/our own, then you would relase that W/we are a large part of the city and just as much of a right to be able to do what W/we wish in O/our homes and with O/our simmy lives, and to venture out if not bring harm to a nother witch W/we do not.

    Of bringing others into the comunity I have been IMed before many times by Many that wish information and knowlage And as they were respectful I happily helped, I have brought some of My closer friends into the lifestyle and T/they are happier then ever been Oh and Kaisey My dear friend that I interdused into the lifestle is the Owner of Razorblade Kiss, the house name is of a song I beleave you Putz if you would read the house bio

    I have ranted long enough, I probly have more on My mind But I am sick and spelling crap right now so do pardon while I respectuly leave you dyerbrook and others of closed minded and ignorate people to your own acords,
    Be well I and I hope one day you learn to open your clouded mind to the wonders of all walks of life around you and I bet on that day you will relaise that you have waisted away for so long shuting out so many that would befreind you if not the way that you are,

    Good night to A/all

    embraceing All life around to learn and grow daily
    Carmen Ray
29. 

    Kaisey
    

    Dec 26th, 2003
    

    Well being I was directed here as My house name was mentioned.. I honestly had no intention of getting involved in this, for I will probably not word things as nicely as others in Oour community have.

    But for clarifaction, My house name ‘Razorblade Kiss’ has been My houses name since before I even joined the community. I am a DJ with a radio station, and am very into music, and Razorblade Kiss is a song by a band called HIM, that My husband picked out for Oour new home. The name in no way ever related to Oour lifestyle obviously since Wwe had the name before then, it is just one of Oour special songs. Maybe it is best to ask before assuming what you do not know.

    Taking My leave now.
30. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Well, as I said, keep talking. You are providing reams of interesting material for people to study your cult and perhaps rescue their loved ones from it. Here we see it’s even worse than we thought, once again. People who weren’t in the group before TSO were lured into it once they went online. Why, that’s a right-wing senator’s dream for controlling the Internet. Oh, you say, it was all voluntary! And look, all those vanilla people just begging to be spanked — why, they even become a nuisance! But that merely shows what a menace to the community you have become. It’s like crack. People voluntarily took it or didn’t take it…but it was pretty addictive, wasn’t it? When something becomes this disruptive in a community, then it undermines the fabric of society, which is based on non-violence and non-coercion and non-slavery. Then we have to question its right to spread so aggressively. And that’s exactly why I’m here. I surely didn’t begin with that question. I thought it was more of a question of challenging people in a very dubious sub-culture to explain why they thought they could so aggressively wander through the game. And now I see that it is far more of a threat to the diversity and freedom of AV than even I imagined. They are only too happy to shove and push anyone who disagrees with them out of AV. They are only too happy to taunt and humiliate and bludgeon anyone who disagrees with their lifestyle. They don’t just say “You know, it’s my thing, I paid money for the game and subsription just like you did, leave me alone to do my thing.” That I could accept. Instead, they say “perceive us as good, OR ELSE.” “Hold they tongue if you know nothing, wench OR ELSE.”

    My suggestion that YOU go to DG is about creating a separate, hard-core adult server so that I don’t have to sit in an ordinary vanilla skill lot and get a face-full of this “Greetings A/all” crap from slaves. When I IM the lot owner and she tells me how uncomfortable she feels about it but how intimidated she feels about telling them to stop, I feel I must speak out.

    Indeed, this is a hallmark of the cult. What BDSMers *delight* maliciously and gleefully in doing is playing *gotcha*. They love to have some arcane practice or notion of their own and spring it on the unsuspecting world, trying to trap them in their “kneejerk reactions” and then triumphantly bellowing that those vanillas are bigots and cretins. Everyone is *supposed to know* that Razorblade Kiss is a song, and was the couple’s lot title *before* they were in BDSM. Well, yuck, what a lot title! It’s violent, it’s aggressive, and it is sinister in a world where RL teenagers cut themselves with razor blades in ritualized psychotic behavior. It’s an anthem of BDSM web pages all over the Internet (just google the term) and yet you feign innocence, like it is just a song, just a lot title. No one is every allowed to have the natural, normal revulsion and disgust at the thought of lips being slashed by a sharp razor blade. Instead, we are to turn meaning on its ear, and accept pain as pleasure and razor blades as instruments of love. It is so typical of the perversity of this cult that it flaunts the perversity, plays *gotcha* on the easily intimidated with the perversity, and then in indignant, outraged umbrage, claims victimhood. Well, guess what, it’s a load of crap. Violence is violence, pain is pain, razorblades are ugly. It’s OK to say that. Saying that is the norm. Saying that is not wrong. Saying that is not bigoted. Saying that is not a cult.

    Hilariously, impishly — like the demons of hell itself– you try to fling back the idea of culthood on two or three people who are just friends, good friends in the Sims, not in any kind of ritualized group with its own secret language, codes, symbols, practices and “gotcha” games like yourselves. It’s so indicative of your cultlike nature that people who are just friends — even a free person in the free world like Stella, who was *not* convinced of my arguments against BDSM (and therefore is a good example of the proof of diversity of opinion that makes a non-cult, and which is absent in your circled wagons). Funny, I didn’t convince her with my rational arguments, but like others, she came away sickened by the messages on these boards and decided maybe there was something to it…

    Probably it would be a good idea if BDSM followers went to sociolotron. It’s a particularly malicious game, but it could also contain the type of hate and attacks that BDSMers wish to be free of in TSO. In TSO they will thrive as they will never be able to thrive anywhere else, because of the PC TOS.

    The problem with this discussion is that it is taking place in a funnel with only a slew of BDSMers and myself and perhaps a few friends who themselves are now intimidated. I might add that when I declared victory on the Stratics boards, it was premature. Now the mods have removed the entire threads about the SSG and BDSM which were very interesting, with all points of view, even though they did not single out specific Sims or neighborhoods for any particular attack. So the entire debate is silenced. Still, as BDSM rages through AV, people will begin to push back. More and more people will take interest. It might be the board of trustees of the University of Michigan. It might be the conservative media. It might be Maxis itself. But sooner or later, someone will cry “Hold, enough!” The game sells not because it has as domme with a whip on the cover, but because it is rated “teen”. If it can no longer support that claim, it will be attacked, and by people who are not as thoughtful and liberal as I am. Those people will eventually pull the plug on the whole game, and it will all be because hard core adult players did not want to ask Maxis to create a separate server for them. Maxis/EA now have their head in the sand. They think that if they suppress the debate on the Stratics board and respond only to the most plaintive pleas against obscene language on lots that they can finesse this very thorny (to make a pun) problem. But they will have to face up to it sooner or later.
31. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Oh my goodness, what a long thread! And my name keeps coming up, lol. My picture is on my website Bam, and I will say that men have fallen at my feet in real life as well as in sim life. I have never lacked for attention. Dyerbrook, aka Lord Cheetah, I thank you for your red link and wear it as a badge of honour, for I earned it by standing up for my friend Lord Cougar and confronting you, in my home, for your insult to him. Not to mention, it just enhances my scary Domme reputation, lol. And I asked no-one to retaliate or attack you. That is your way, not mine. You are powerless.
32. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Oh, and a cult? Well, if this is a cult and I am leader, I would like everyone to wear a cheese hat in my home from now on.
33. 

    Alina Davis
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    To Rory Gallagher,

    My accounting of what I have experienced as a Domme from the “vanilla” has nothing to do with My bio. As a matter of fact, if you look in game at My bio you will see it says nothing of My BDSM background. Also, I just moved into Thorns and Petals neighborhood 6 days ago. All that I listed above happened when I was in a “vanilla” neighborhood. Take a peak at My bio, not one word states BDSM and yet I still receive IMs as if it does. LOL not even the BDSMers knew I was a Domme when I came onto their lots. Last night I was called “sis” rofl
34. 

    Mikal
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    i just wanted to say ..i am a beta tester as well. i started way back in September of 2002 here in wonderful AV. i was never recruited into BDSM. None came to my skill house nor my money lot. i had always had the interest to be part of D/s. D/s is a totally different aspect. D/s is a lifestyle and BDSM is part of it with some relationships, but not all. i will not be leaving AV as this is and always has been my home. Nor will i allow someone who has no idea of what he speaks of try to convince me that i’m in the wrong. And as toy said …i also come from a very loving home life. i was raised in a Christian family with my father as pastor. i was never mistreated as either a child nor as an adult. You need to get all your facts together before you start spouting off at the mouth. And by the way, i go to skill lots all the time, and i’m welcomed openly. i do not discuss my lifestyle nor do many ask me about my lifestyle. i’m usually left to myself..and am usually quiet. If i can let you be then i suggest you do the same to U/us in the community. And i am free to answer any intellegent questions that i am asked. i am a submissive……and intellegent, free thinking man, not a robot. i submit because i wish to, not because someone is twisting my arm to make me. If you don’t want to be around U/us, then stop coming to O/our lots.
35. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    And I love you my darling Mikal We have been together for more than six months now. Ours is a real and caring relationship. And if I like to spank, and you like to be spanked, then that is our business and no-one else’s.

    And Dyer, aka Lord Cheetah, my Mikal is all man. I cannot say the same for you.
36. 

    naadirah
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Greetings A/all and Dyerbrook
    i just wanted to join sis toy and brother mikal in the fact that i grow up in a loving family:)

    Merry Chrismas to A/all and Dyerbrook

    i love You Master

    naadirah submissive to Master Darksoul
37. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Re: “need to get all your facts together before you start spouting off at the mouth.”

    Again and again, we are told that each positing of a position, each formulation of a point in what should be a debate is rendered inauthentic and erroneous because someone hasn’t “gotten his or her facts” together by studying all the arcane lore on such hideous sites as castlerealm.com If you want to truly shudder, and truly worry for our world, read Lord Colm’s essay on “Depersonalization.”

    For shame!

    Yes, I gathered some facts, you all, and I got them from your lovely Lady Julianna. It is she who says that 85 percent of you were abused in childhood. That’s why I made an assumption that toy would have likely fallen into that 85 percent. She haughtily tells me it isn’t so, that she’s just a farm girl with a loving family. Well, something is wrong, somewhere…

    And if being a sub or a dom is your idea of what “all man” is, Lady Julianna, I’m happy to be less than a man, because then it means I am human.

    BTW, Lord Cheetah is not necessarily played by the human who is Dyerbrook…and you’ll be kept guessing…
38. 

    brigit
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    first of all my apologies to Lady Alina as that was me who called her sister….*bows her head in shame*…..but it is because like You say…i had no idea from Your bio that You were a Domme…

    now just a short post this time…..i think you dyerbrook…..need to move to DG….and get a BJ as soon as possible…as it might releve some of the undue pressure that is making your head swell with all that nonsense you keep sprouting….

    is it time for another cheer…from the cheerleaders of the Alphaville BDSM Community as dyer so aptly put……

    rah rah rah…..sis boom bah….your a closed minded man….your ideals are bland….and we’re glad that we are what your not….
    *jumps up high…with the short crop top slipping up too far…oops*….sorry dyer….( * )( * )
39. 

    gyrryl
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    ~runs out to the field to join sister brigit in her cheers~
    Two Four Six Eight…
    Who do we appreciate?
    Anyone who knows how to spank
    Cause Dyerbrook, your ideas’ tank.
    Coercion is your middle name
    And me, I’m the one no one can tame.
    Two Four Six Eight
    Who do I appreciate?
    Masters! Masters! Masters!
    ~winks at Sir Tiger Joe Franklin in the bleachers~
    ~waves to Master Bastian Dante over on the sidelines~
    ~blows kisses to Sirs Darksoul, D’Marco and Stealth Badger~
    ~bows to Vana’she Billy Bob Thornton~
40. 

    brigit
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    a friend wrote this……in the bio for their BDSM PROPERTY once…….i thought i might share it with you…..

    Sometimes ones hopes ones dreams ones innermost desires are considered by the world as being dark and sinful. These pleasures cannot be freely expressed without fear of ridicule.

    In this property ridicule is ridiculed, fear is a part of pleasure, and freedom reigns above all else……………..

    so there…..*sticks out her tongue*…that is to you who ridicules and tries to belittle the lifestyle that makes so many complete….i for one am only complete when pleasing my Master.

    you know they say….don’t sweat the small stuff.. you dyerbrook…are small stuff….

    Sir Matthews girl……….brigit
41. 

    sugar/nikristai
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Wow,
    what a difference a few days makes… sheeesh… at any rate. I’d like to address some things also. I whole heartidly agree with the fact that parents are responsible for thier children not the world… I am a mother and I do not in any way expect anyone else to teach my child anything… there are things in this world that I wish werent true… the homeless mothers and children here in the US… or the millions of orphaned children who’s parents died from AIDS in Africa… but instead of letting my child believe that the parents here are bad because it looks like they cant provide from thier family… or instead of letting him believe that the Men and Women in Africa are sexual, drug addicts… I, ME, and my husband, noone else TEACHES him that these people suffered from horribly tradgidies…some of them probably could of prevented it… but I gaurentee most couldnt. I teach him that there are men in the world who love men… and women in the world who love women (his aunt, my 17 yr old sister is one of them) and I teach him that no matter what… God, yes I said God… because I am a born again christian and have been for 8 yrs LOVES them no matter what the world thinks… because HUMANS view points will always be warped in some way shape or form. I teach him to love God, himself and the world around him… I teach him to not judge… to know the facts for himself and base opinion on what he knows for himself… not for what anyone else says. I teach him that sex is a part of life…its apart of everyday human and animal life. I teach him that when you grow to an age of accountability… YOU are responsible for YOU… but untill then… I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU … what he sees, hears, feels, touches, and learns is my responsibility…so if you want us to be responsible for your kids and what they are learning… your proving that you are a slacker as a parent.

    TSO did not in any way shape or form bring me into this lifesyle…(BDSM is not a lifestyle it’s a kink… D/s is a lifestyle) I have been submissive from the age of a small child… my mother to this day.. with no knowledge about me being a sub tells me stories of me “serving” others all the time. I LOVEEEEEE submitting to my husband… and in fact in the vanilla world someone plays a Dominant role and someone plays the submissive role… they usually say its the person who wears the pants in the family who plays the Dominant role *winks* D/s just takes those roles and emphasizes to the point each person desires. I do not call my husband Master, although I would love to, but He thinks its silly only because of our spiritual beliefs… LOL actually I did the other day when he was very crabby and it got him right out of his bad mood cause he laughed at me so hard.

    I am not saying that I am perfect by any means cause if I was, I’d be at home with Jesus thank you very much… I am saying that people have differences in how they choose to live thier life and what they believe… but hmmm think thats called free will and isnt that what every person wants??? Freedom to choose what they want for thier own life based apon thier emotions for said thing??? Toy chooses to be a slave because that is what makes her happiest, shi chooses to be the way she is because that is what makes her happy… you choose to be what you are because that is what makes you happy… brigit chooses to be a fun loving sometimes brat because that is what makes her happy… Sir Bastian Dante chooses to be a “jerK” (i think thats what was said not sure though) because that is what makes him happy… I choose to submit online to my Master and in real life to my husband because it brings me tremendous joy to serve and make others happy. If my husband said to me… can you come soak my feet and rub them and cut my toenails and rub lotion all over them… I would not because I feel I have to… but because He protects me, guides me, provides for me and His son and I love Him and want Him to be happy… because that is MYYYYY true joy… seeing Him and my family happy.

    Society deams me as weak and unintelligent…but ask my online Master (Stealth Badger) or any one in the BDSM community how weak and unitelligent I am?? Hell ask my husband (Mr Poxx)… I assure you He and the others will tell you I am very strong willed and quite intelligent. I may not use all the big words some of the others have here… but I get my point accross in a well spoken manner. As far as weak goes, I am far from it… I have seen more tradgedy and heart ache than I wish on my worst enemy and I am still going strong… and happy.

    Moral to the story…we are human, we have differences in opinion on how to live life…but I and if I look at the posts right…or anyone in the community will not tell you how to live your life. As a christian I have never been one of those preachy christians who go about telling others you are going to hell, because frankly I’m not God so how the hell do I know where your going. As a a person who I can now say is a D/s lifestyler I will not tell you wow, you should be a Dominant or you should be a submissive… but if you come to me and ask me about Jesus, I will gladly share my experience and knowledge on what He has done in my life. And if you come to me and ask me what it is like to be a submissive I will happily tell you my story of how I came to this lifestyle.

    I just wanted to share to let the “vanilla’s” in on what is percieved to be so horrid and awful and wracked with violence. My husband I only participate in spankings with his hand… although I would like a lil more (Im a tad bit masochistic) He doesnt want to do more than that… and you know what? That is fine, because we are doing what works for us, not what the “CULT” of BDSM lifesyle says *eyeroll*.

    In the end we all live here on earth and in TSO land together and are going to have to learn how to get along or at least agree to disagree. The BDSM community has made it abundantly clear that if people tell us wich houses we are not welcome at we will spread the word and not go to those houses. See respect… its all about respect.
    No matter what differences of opinions I have with anyone, I try to be as respectful as I can and at least show some kind of compassion or caring for any said person. Because in the end of the day, I might need that person to support me in some way.

    I often wonder what would we be like if we didn’t accept other forms of alternative lifestyles… granted we have a ways to go, but its getting better each day. I would be in fear of my sisters life before the womans movement happened.

    I am not trying to change anyone’s opinion… that wasnt my goal… the goal was to shed some light, to gain some percpective… to show that I as an adult choose to live my life the way I choose to live it and you as an adult choose to live your life the way you live it… and that children should be guided by thier parents not by the world around them.

    Sarah(RL name)/sugar/nikristai
42. 

    toy
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    ~throws up her hands in disgust~

    once again it is obvious, actually everytime dyerbrook posts, he is the one trying futily to ‘recruit’. What diety has appointed YOU this girls saviour?

    toy has invited you to come to her home to discuss differences but you, as usual, ignore this and ramble blindly on

    Your main goal seems to be to get us out of AV and be the leader of YOUR cult This girl sadly will burst that bubble, she will remain in AV. toy is very happy in AV and seeas no reason to leave Hmmmmm….. Your the one that is unhappy, may toy suggest a move for You instead? Perhaps DG ~smiles sweetly~
    As far as socilotron goes.. toy likes TSO/AV better and the last girl knew she was still allowed to live where she wished which isnt ‘at the back of the bus’
    toy begs You once more to learn of what You speak before spouting illinformed ramblings over and over…. but the that would remove the ‘fun’ factor of reading Your posts hehehe
    You should really just copy and paste Your posts since they say the same thing repeatedly
    But then what else would bring this much humor.. or is it that Your a ‘closet clown’ and enjoy being laughed at?
    toy has never heard of, or seen, a member of this community try to recruit…. and would like for You toy bring one person forward who has. toy has never seen where it is written that BDSM/Gor is a cult… other than Your humorus ramblings we have no ‘leaders’ what we do have is respect for ones who have shown honor and respect for others…. we do have people who go out of their way to be polite… we do have people who will fight for their rights
    toy anxiously awaits Your next copy and paste post
    A Gorean master/slave relationship is by definition a type of D/s relationship, given that it is founded upon ideas of dominance and submission. Indeed, a Gorean master/slave relationship differs from a TPE relationship only in two aspects: the use of rituals and language from the novels, and the underlying foundation upon natural order as opposed to simple personal preference.
    However, “Gor” as a whole, as a concept, spans far more than the master/slave relationship. As many other able writers have pointed out, Gor the philosophy is not about slavery per se; slavery is simply one of many specific practices deriving from that much broader set of ideas.
    Allow me to present an analogue:
    “Self-sufficiency” can be a philosophy, a way of thinking and feeling about how to live one’s life. There are many who seek to reduce their dependence on their fellow man to lesser or greater extents, in many different ways. “Gardening” is a specific practice, one which devolves naturally from a philosophy of self-sufficiency, but which is also practiced by many who do not subscribe to those ideas, that way of life. Note also that there is no requirement that one garden in order to be self-sufficient; one can follow the philosophy without engaging in that specific practice, and vice versa. To speak of the self-sufficiency movement as a “subset” of gardeners is self-evidently ludicrous to the extreme, and anyone who does so is obviously missing the broader aspects of the philosophy completely.
    So, too, with Gor and BDSM. Gor describes a set of ideas. Those who subscribe to those ideas may be more likely to engage in some of the practices known collectively as BDSM, but there will be many who live by the philosophy without ever engaging in that practice, and many who engage in that practice without any wish to explore the philosophies, or indeed engage in practices which are completely counter to the ideas of the philosophy.
    BDSM is *what* you do, if that is what you want to do. Gor is *why* you do *whatever* you do, whether that involves BDSM or not.
    Wish I knew what all the confusion was about…

    falara kajira toy
43. 

    Mikal
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    First of all, Mistress i love You too Now, to have my say. A man is one who can stand up and decide what he needs for himself. i am standing up now and telling the world that i need to be submissive, i enjoy being submissive and if you have a problem with that fact then that’s just it…it’s you that has the problem, not i. A man doesn’t sit there smug behind his computer and tell others how they should or should not live their lives or how they are living is wrong just because my lifestyle isn’t what you think it should be. Who decided that you were the moral police? Why do you consider my lifestyle a threat when all i am doing is serving someone i care for and who cares for me? Why don’t you think about the vanilla sims that place in their bios racist style writing or violent ethics? my bios is neither racist, bigoted nor violent. i am not hurting anyone nor is anyone hurting me. i don’t go scening on vanilla lots. i don’t do anything on vanilla lots that i wouldn’t do as a vanilla sim. Since this is the case, why do you have such an issue with it? i think it’s because you are more jealous over the fact that T/those of us are actually happier then you ever will be, because W/we have found what truly makes U/us happy. By the way…my vanilla friends…support me 100% in this lifestyle, they do not try to “change” me, nor do i try to convince them that they should try BDSM. So, i have said my peace, and i will go now back to my wonderful house in AV and visit with my wonderful friends… See Y/you A/all soon is AV my F/friends.
44. 

    Lord Gavril
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Good Day A/all

    I’m here to respond to Dyerbrooks inability in letting adults be adults. You’ll find it truly hard getting anywhere here, you have run into the most stubborn lot of people Dyerbrook who wont back down. Your frustration is mounting Dyerbrook, even with your comments of,
    “You are providing reams of interesting material for people to study your cult and perhaps rescue their loved ones from it.”
    You are bubbling over with anger. Your friends have found bdsm, have become very interested, and you feel left out. Almost like a scorned lover.
    I will admit, you have offended Me, but this I am used to when the topic of bdsm is broached. You see Dyerbrook, you are one of the sheep that follows. This is Extremely obvious to Me as I read you words and the temper in which they are delivered. How dare We get out of line, and Not follow everyone else? Well, the term coming to mind is ‘free thinking’ when a person is able and Not Affraid to do this, they tend to stop doing what everyone else is doing, and be Themselves.
    Onto the recruiting thread. I havent seen to date in anyones profile ” Come to bdsm its great” Peoples profiles are their advertisments of who and what they are. If a person reads the profile and it interests them, they go check it out. Is this not how You do things in tso Dyerbrook? go to the places that interest You?
    By the way Dyerbrook, please educate yourself on the difference between bdsm and D/s I’m getting tired of you squishing the two into one.
    They are not mutually the same, and need to be discussed as different entities.
    There is something I do agree with you on. Alphaville should be a adult server, it does have the perfect name to be one.

    I refuse to make this into a long diatribe, so here I end, for now.

    Be Well

    Regards

    Gavril
45. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Well Dyer, you are at least Lord Cheetah some of the time. I have no doubt that I spoke with you on that day and you confirmed it when you mentioned that I said 85% of BDSMers were abused. I said that to Lord Cheetah, and if you know this, you are he. Perhaps your wife plays him too, I don’t know, and I don’t really care. We have your number.

    But, I would ask one favour. Do not break your red link with me, for as I said before, from you, it is a badge of honour and courage for me. You entered my home. I did not enter your home or find you on a skill lot. You were being disrespectful of a friend and I confronted you on it. Wearing a red link for a friend is not a disgrace.

    I have a question for you. Why did you write your name, Lord Cheetah, on the board for Dom/mes seeking subs? What would you have done with any sub who replied to you? I think you would have been abusive. I removed Lord Cheetah’s name from the board. Or were you really wanting a sub to try our lifestyle? Are you, after all is said and done, a hypocrite?

    You are powerless. You can do nothing to us. None of us are foolish enough to reply to you with profanity, so you have no grounds to report us to Maxis on. Your red enemy links mean nothing to us and don’t bother us in the slightest. Like most powerless men, you squawk and make a good deal of noise. And the truth is, we in the lifestyle do love a good debate and discussion, so even in this you are providing us with pleasure.

    *waving mosquito away*
46. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    RE: Lady Juliana, so far, thank God, “being disrespectful” isn’t a crime in the game in the way you imagine it is, and making a spoof Sim of someone who has entirely too high an opinion of himself is one of the standard ways in which the game is played, and I’ve been on the receiving end of it many times, without ever pressing my “complaint button”. Whatever complaint you filed, it had no effect, and I invite all readers to go view Lord Cheetah’s profile in the game to see just how “disrespectful” it is LOL.

    When Lord Cheetah put his name up on your board, it was merely to engage in one of the ritualistic activities on your lot, as part of the spoof, and not to actually engage some real sub. Obviously, no real sub could come forward because you control the boards, and immediately removed it. If some real sub had come forward, I would have merely chatted with them and moved on my way — I’m certainly not out to use this game to establish abusive sexual relationships as so many are. This “disrespectful” spoof contains lines like “I am Lord and Master of All I Survey! (now where did I put my car keys) and has received a number of cheerful responses from both BDSM and vanilla people in the game who perhaps less of a grim sense of virtuality than you do.

    And let me disabuse many of some notion you’ve picked up along the way. I don’t have any close friend or Sim wife or former Sim honey or some such who “went over” to BDSM such as to cause me to have a personal bear with this lifestyle. No, I merely noticed as 4 people went over to it with whom I had casual friendships in the game.

    Once again, challenging the morality and philsophy of a movement is not “the moral police” but indeed, labeling such a challenge “the moral police* IS the moral police! The “moral police” would be asking that you be banned. I’m asking that you move to an adult server if Maxis could establish one.

    I speak for many in AV who are disturbed by the spread of BDSM but are intimidated from saying or doing anything by being bullied and bludgeoned with the charge of bigotry. I am fearless, and always have been in AV.

    There should be a separate adult server. It should not be AV, because I and others who have even more vested in their specialized neighborhoods do not want to be forced out.

    Let me spell out that I didn’t go after BDSM, or go on to their lots to harass them — an assumption you make based on narrow-minded, hate-filled fear that the world doesn’t like you — and in that, you’re more than half right. Like others, I saw lots of BDSM lots appearing, was disturbed by the philosophy behind them, but figured it was a private matter on someone’s lot, let them do their own thing, just as anyone should do their own thing as long as it involves consenting adults. But then one day, as I was on a plain vanilla lot, we got a visitor who was into a very raucous form of BDSM play. She was one of Alpha Wolf’s subs or consorts, the very Sim whom Lord Cougar and other BDSM leaders have sometimes condemned using their Sim profiles, and even mistakenly thought was me or associates from SimAlbums. It is not. I mentioned to this Alpha Wolf sub (he has since said he left the game for SL on his profile) that I was disturbed by her violent lifestyle and antics. It was the mildest of comments. She then unleashed a torrent of abuse on me. She stalked me in the game, and kept doing “worship” and “grovel” and accusing me of secretly desiring to make her a sub. She pestered and pestered me and others on this lot until finally she was booted, but then came back before the lot owner could managed to fix up the admit list. She and her “lord” then began to harass me in the game. So I took a second, much more serious look at BDSM. I decided to visit lots and read web sites to educate myself — that’s why these constant taunts for me to “educate myself” (actually a code word for “indoctrinate myself) are so off the mark. On my very first visit to Lord Cougar’s lot, where he holds lectures on his 41-point path to becoming a BDSMer (you wonder if anyone ever sat through it all LOL), I suddenly caught sight of a familiar Sim. She was someone I had been friendly with in the game, not a close friend. She was kind and nice. But in the game, she was intimidated by the SSG and its controlled radios, and had expressed fears about it and didn’t even want to talk about it. Next thing I know, I see her on this lot, sporting a rose on her profile and stuff about “Him” with the caps, etc. In surprise and concern, I merely asked “What are you doing here? How did you get into this?” For this rather mild question, I was accused of harassing a guest (a one-line question is hardly harassment), booted from the lot, and deluged with a slew of IMs from her “lord” who actually pretended not to be a lord and not in the lifestyle because he was hiding it for some reason — something that definitely prompted my suspicion. This sim evidently had one of those “any problem with me take it up with my lord” kind of deals going on so that I was booted before we could even have a conversation. Later, she IM’d me angrily and told me she had given her consent to be in this lifestyle, and that she was not weakminded as I had suggested — and I had suggested it precisely because I saw her fear and reluctance about the SSG and figured she was susceptible to indoctrination.

    There are many other experiences but I won’t take the space to recount them. They are enough to raise some red flags for me that at least some end of the BDSM spectrum is a cult. BTW, I had a conversation with Mr. Bonewits about this, and he opined that indeed any BDSM house could be a cult, merely because anything can become a cult, and various forms of sex and online games can also become an addiction. He pointed out that at any time, a Sim could log-off or delete, suggesting that it couldn’t be much of a cult, because it didn’t control RL time, assets, relationships, etc. I thought that was a very reasonable argument against my concerns about it being a cult, but it was NEVER the argument I got from any of you, was it? Hmmm? Why? Because for so many of you, it does *indeed* extend to RL and indeed you *would* likely feel pressure if you suddenly dropped out and many of you *have* given out your RL data such as to open yourself up to pressure, subtle or unsubtle, have you not?

    The flaunting and taunting behavior in these posts, the lack of cogent arguments (I’m with Stella on that one) are why we all need to be concerned about BDSM. And Lord Gavril, BTW, you had better police *your own* community with your lord-powers because *they* are the one who conflate the lifestyles into one euphemism, BDSM, not me. Clearly, it is a spectrum, and clearly, those who are in the milder end of the spectrum don’t want to be held to the violent and coercive behavior of others at the extreme end. But their method for dealing with this is suspect — circling wagons and refusing to admit there is a problem.

    Urizenus might find this all an amusing exercise in linguistics of the sort he studies like a dead frog pinned on a mat, and he may deny any validity for genuine dialogue about what is acceptable in a community based on some universal standards. Yet he was the one who got all hysterical about an Internet histrionic case (the boy and his beaten sister) and blew the lid off Evangeline — the kind of phenom we founders have seen constantly and ignored or used our ignore button for. For him, from that posture, to suggest that there is something not “balanced” or not “sharpened enough” or “out of line” about my concerns about violent, coercive game play spreading in AV– well, there are no words to express such hypocrisy.
47. 

    Darksoul
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Quoting dyerbrook once again “the fabric of society, which is based on non-violence and non-coercion and non-slavery.” Where did you learn this dyerbrook? A human society which isn’t violent? OMG, this only shows your ignorance of the world in general and ALL of human history. Forget the BDSM and D/s issue, that statement was just patently stupid. Open a history book dyerbrook, show Me any period of human history that has been non-violent and I’ll bow out of this convo in a heartbeat just to honor your great wisdom……falls off My chair laughing maniacally.

    Next quote “More and more people will take interest. It might be the board of trustees of the University of Michigan. It might be the conservative media. It might be Maxis itself. But sooner or later, someone will cry “Hold, enough!”
    Sigh….U of M may find it interesting to study an online subculture…but to concern themselves in the goings on in a game? I don’t think so. The conservative media? Rush Limbaugh? The oxycontin junkie……pffffttttt. The Spotlight…the mouthpiece of neo-nazis in the US……riiiiggghhhhttt. I would think that any media, except for the obvious online and tech media such as Salon and Wired would take very little interest in an online game. If the media takes that much interest in a game, it will probably be those in which killing and maiming are the true purpose of playing. The Clinton era is over dyerbrook, so the conservative media has no purpose anymore, it’s just so much noise in the background. Maxis, pull the plug on the game? Yes, let’s A/all email them and ask if they have any interest in shooting a cash cow.

    Apparently dyerbrook, you missed out on learning that the internet is the last frontier, the only remaining bastion of free speech in a world ruled by despots, and brainwashed by corporate controlled media, the only true purpose of which is to promote crass commercialism.

    In closing, Howdies and props to A/all My friends and family involved in the thread….My darling naadirah…Billy Bob…Linderella…Tiger Joe…brig…sugar…toy…..Lady Julianna….Lady DeMary…gyrryl….Gavril…shi……..Tabby Rasa….Mikal….Alina (pleasure to meet You since We haven’t met yet in game)…..Kaisey(look forward to meeting you as well)….and Ms Carmen Ray …..I think that covers E/everyone, if I forgot A/anyone, chalk it up to brainwashing by the cult……muhahahahaha……..farewell till the next post.

    “Of all the strange “crimes” that human beings have legislated out of nothing, “blasphemy” is the most amazing, with “obscenity” and “indecent exposure” fighting it out for second and third place.” Robert A Heinlein

    Darksoul
48. 

    Linderella
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    “The flaunting and taunting behavior in these posts, the lack of cogent arguments (I’m with Stella on that one) are why we all need to be concerned about BDSM.”

    My God, you and Stella are the ones who have no cogent arguments. You keep spouting the same rhetorical nonsense over and over again WITH NO PROOF!

    You say vanilla lots want BDSMers off of them, I tell you to send me the names and we will not frequent them but do you? NO! You just keep saying it over and over again.

    You say we recruit and we ask you tell us who but do you? NO!!!! You just keep repeating yourself over and over again. Come up with some PROOF already…repeating your same statements over and over doesn’t make them true. And since apparently your entire education of BDSM came from ONE, JUST ONE conversation with Lady Julianna, I am thinking you have a great deal to learn.

    Until you can come up with some PROOF, some cold hard FACTS, you are just blowing wind up those short cheerleader skirts on brigit and gyrryl.
49. 

    brigit
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    ok am i the only one that just noticed that dyer just got confirmation that this in no way was a cult…..JUST as we have told him all along…*hands him a Q-tip*…..yet even as he tells us this he twists it around because we did not say it in exactly the same way as this Mr. Bonewits………

    *thinks….twisting words*….i see a pattern developing here….*laffs*

    ah well it does make an interesting read however…and all those words to say what….you guys scare me…..you have more friends than me…the idea of spanking a bare bottom while the moans of estasy fill the room as two consenting adults fulfill their intimate desires …make me cringe….what is it…..

    *shrugs*…..really it doesn’t matter….you have become insignificant….only fodder for us to eat away at as we read your ramblings….

    as previously stated….none of us are leaving we are staying……we will be loving one another in ways you can only imagine…….

    Sir Matthews girl………………brigit
50. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Dyerbrook, I am sorry that you met one of the less committed to manners sims in our community. We are not all like that. I am sorry that you were harassed. There are good and bad in every group, and most of us would never have done that to you. I apologize on behalf of the community for that; it was wrong. I can understand you being upset by that. But do not judge us as all being the same. Good manners are important to us, and they are very important to me.

    I have never made anyone an enemy, but I have been tagged myself, and always on my property.

    You are wrong about how the community started and grew. It began with only a few of us in Alphaville. Two of us, Jax and I, created Rose Thorn Gardens with our two houses. Then another joined, and another. Word spread that there was some activity happening in Alphaville, and like many, people realized the other cities were dying and that there were more players remaining in Alphaville. You need lots of players to get study speed up and money making potential up. Many moved here for that reason, just like other sims, and joined our community.

    The BDSMers were always here in TSO, just spread over different cities. It was the dying city phenomenon that brought us here, and we were delighted to band together. We named our community Rose Thorn Gardens because roses and thorns are symbolic in our lifestyle, and we knew that those in the lifestyle would understand immediately from the name what we were all about, while the vanilla would not pick up on it. It was never our intent to recruit. We put our lifestyle affiliation on our profiles so that others like us can find us and meet us, just as many gays, lesbians, Christians, and other group members do.

    We are amazed at how word spread to other BDSMers in other cities, and how the community grew. Neither Jax nor I expected it would grow this big, but we are happy it did.

    There is no sinister large machine at work here. No cult, no leaders. My name rises again and again simply because I have been here a long time and a lot of people know and respect me. If I were to proclaim myself leader, Queen of Alphaville, I would be laughed right out of the community, and rightly so.

    I am afraid you overestimate us. Sheesh, I wish I were that well organized! I would head straight for my kitchen cupboards where organization is needed, not set out to start a cult!

    But if you wish and are fixated on this idea, you could ask people to wear the cheese hat in my presence.

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