The Alphaville Herald

435 Responses to “Interview with Anonymous, on Alphaville’s Bondage, Discipline & Sadomasochism Community”

1. 

   Dyerbrook
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   It’s curious to me, Lady Julianna, that you do not know of other leaders who more intentional agendas than you describe because I have direct testimony quite different from your home-spun tale of two ladies getting together to form a kind of “different” sewing-circle…

   Darksoul has listed 15 recruits to the lifestyle, and yet he continues to go on barking about how there are no recruiting techniques. Huh? We’ll have to agree to disagree. On the Internet, it is impossible to know fully what you are dealing with. I have no idea whether Darksoul or any of you have ever gone to college, studied the classics, read anything besides Chomsky and your XBOX game manuals. When I say “fabric of society” I mean something that makes a society cohere, something that it aspires to, its goals and aspirations as a binding factor. Darksoul, you are mistaking the phenomena of war or violence and crime in society as somehow then “the fabric of society” when the term “fabric of society” is never used to mean “everything that happens in a human society”. Of course there is violence, crime, and war. Yet it is the value of society to curb crime, and it is not the norm or the standard to permit violence in everyday relationships. Indeed, in the last 20 years, great strides have been made in the U.S. to end the tyranny of child abuse in the private home; to end domestic violence against women; to end hazing on sports teams; to end violent hate crimes against gays. Great strides, but never enough progress. Those are the aspirations of society. Non-violence is a value. Of course, the same people who might want to end that personal violence will subscribe to the war in Iraq. Maybe they believe it is a just war, that it was designed to prevent or punish the greater violence of Saddam killing 300,000 of his own people and harming his neighbors. Maybe it isn’t a just war because a just war, in the Aquinas definition, would be a war that restored the peace *and this one has not*. These are debates rational people have in a civilized society. But they don’t claim that violence is woven into the warp and woof of society as a *value* — as you do.

   What you have done with your cult is to play-act — as only spoiled, rich Americans with way too much leisure time on their hands could do– the kind of violence that my grandparents experienced in the Soviet GULAG against their will, leading to their deaths, or that other peoples’ grandparents experienced against their will as African-Americans, or as Jews during the Holocaust. You prettify it by saying it is done with consent but you are not convincing.

   Again, none of you used the Bonewits test for a cult — can you delete the Sim or log off and get away from the “lifestyle”? You don’t wish to get away…Will you let others go? It remains to be seen, given the powerful binding factors you wield over their souls, virtual and real.

   Brigit, far from having any kind of confirmation that this isn’t a cult — I began with a query and hoped to hear good arguments — I have even more concerns by the way in which so many of you have chosen to conduct this debate — by chanting the tenets of your indoctrination rather than reasoning by logic and sanity.

   Darksoul’s comments about the Clinton era being over, and the conservative media having no role is just plain perplexing to me. The media is even more concentrated in the Bush era, and even more in the hands of conservatives. And conservative media can include USA Today and the Wall Street Journal, not sectarian papers like “The Spotlight”. I have no idea what kind of board of trustees the U of Michigan has or who they are, but I posit them as a theoretically conservative body, in at least the PC mode of thinking, hmm, maybe they don’t want a professor of their college or a server on their network to be devoted to hundreds of adulatory posts about the BDSM lifestyle. It’s just a thought.

   The notion that the mainstream media ignores games, except for Salon, is silly. Time and Newsweek all featured cover stories on TSO. If it grows more in the direction of BDSM, believe me, they will be back to take a second look and we’ll see rueful editorials about the ways of human communities left to their own devices under the restrictive TOS that make it impossible to provide any kind of free discussion that empowers and enables everyone to feel they can have a stake in their community, and prevent it from turning into “The Slums” as one blogger has dubbed it.

   Several have asked for names as if they are HUAC. Huh? These people who expressed dismay or discomfort to me privately about BDSM certainly don’t want to join a fight with you because they wouldn’t want to face even a tenth of the taunting and flaunting that you have subjected me to. I certainly won’t publish their names, they can speak for themselves if they ever feel they are in a permissive environment. But they are not…

   There are several people who play Lord Cheetah and they may disagree about red-linking. I personally don’t believe in red-linking. Dyerbrook has only red-linked one person in his entire Sim lifetime, despite getting literally hundreds of red-links over the ages. It seems to me that particular red-link from Lord Cheetah on Lady Julianna serves a useful sociological purpose to draw others into discussion. It already has.

   A Russian novelist of the 19th century, Maxim Gorky, described how villagers turned to fighting and drinking vodka in the long, boring and cold winters of Russia. Their lives were incredibly dull. Violence was a form of diversion. “A scratch embellishes an empty face,” he wrote. Indeed.
2. 

   Linderella
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   “Several have asked for names as if they are HUAC. Huh? These people who expressed dismay or discomfort to me privately about BDSM certainly don’t want to join a fight with you because they wouldn’t want to face even a tenth of the taunting and flaunting that you have subjected me to. I certainly won’t publish their names, they can speak for themselves if they ever feel they are in a permissive environment. But they are not…” ~Dyerbrook~

   We do not taunt nor do we flaunt. You are the one taunting us with your Lord Cheetah characterization. None of us are snooping around pretending to be vanilla to spy on you. We could care less about you or your ideals or your stupidity or your lack of education. Some time back there were a chain of Skill houses which featured Extreme in the title. They made it clear they did not want anyone from our community skilling at their houses so we quit going. We didn’t taunt them nor did we flaunt them, we just went to skill elsewhere. For you to go around telling people “if you tell the BDSMers you don’t want them in your skill house, they will taunt you or flaunt you” makes you the worst of the worst, a liar and instigator of discrimination.

   “Darksoul has listed 15 recruits to the lifestyle, and yet he continues to go on barking about how there are no recruiting techniques. Huh? We’ll have to agree to disagree.” -Dyerbrook

   Darksoul mentioned 15 people he knows in game. You accuse him of recruiting them. God, you are such a moron. Wake up and smell the coffee. However, the 15 people mentioned do all agree that you are an ass.

   “I have no idea whether Darksoul or any of you have ever gone to college, studied the classics, read anything besides Chomsky and your XBOX game manuals.” ~Dyerbrook~

   This is why you keep repeating yourself, the truth is revealed…you have short term memory loss. I stated I was an educator. You have to have a degree for that.

   I am hoping that brigit will now post another own of her lovely cheers. She is such a delight. And a lovely girl.
3. 

   Dyerbrook
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   No where did I say Darksoul did the recruiting, I said he listed 15 people who had been successfully recruited to the BDSM lifestyle — by all sorts of means. I don’t have short-term memory loss, even in a debate with 101 posts. If you are an educator, you would have gone to some kind of college, but I have no idea if you ready anything other than Chomsky and its equivalent, especially since you don’t question at all the idea of an educator holding to the views you do in this lifestyle. The example you mentioned of the Extreme lots is interesting. But they probably had some stamina. Along the way, you and others no doubt accused them of being bigots and intolerant, hmmm? What did it take? And why aren’t they in business any longer? And just what was it you did on their lot besides saying “Hi A/all” and going on AFK which is what most BDSMers claim they do on vanilla lots? I would hardly characterize Lord Cheetah as “snooping around pretending to be vanilla”. If you read his profile, you would see why *within seconds* of appearing on BDSMers he was booted, especially by roomies on the lot of the object of his parody, who had no hesitation about kicking him merely because their beloved was parodied. There was no case of misunderstanding, believe me. Brigit can go on mooning me and sticking out her tongue and lifting her skirt and doing other things that people find vulgar. Once again, my request is that she, and you, and the rest of the BDSM gang establish with Maxis an agreement to have a separate adult server, and that it not be Alphaville, because that has already established neighborhoods not into BDSM. End of Story.
4. 

   Linderella
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   As we stated before and I am now stating again, we are not leaving Alphaville nor will we ask Maxis to give us an adult server. If you feel we should be banned or removed from Alphaville, why don’t you tell Maxis? Oh that’s right, you already did and they ignored you…poor pitiful Dyerbrook…ignored, unwanted and uninformed.
5. 

   Lady Julianna
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   We have no intention of leaving Alphaville. We do not have to do anything just because you demand it, and we will start no such discussion with Maxis. You are the one bothered and upset, not us. We are happy where we are.

   I was also a beta tester, but Julianna is not on my founder account, so forget the attempt at founder snobbery. I first started out in Alphaville, and have returned as Julianna. You have no more right to be in Alphaville than we do. We all pay for our accounts, we all have the right to play where we wish.

   You are truly getting desperate if you are going to resort to academic snobbery. I have attended both college and university for your information, specializing in creative writing in college and psychology in university. I find many educated and intelligent people in our community, more so in the general sim population, and I find that in itself interesting.

   I am tired of your moral superiority, founder snobbery, and academic snobbery. Oh how the self-righteous make me want to puke. Such arrogance is the hallmark of youth. You will be humbled as you grow older.

   Squawk away little man. You are entertaining us well. *Putting on my cheese hat and munching on popcorn* Can you dance?
6. 

   Roberto
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   Hello A/all. Just had to pop in and say hello. i also read what was said in regards to the Holocaust. Hmmm…i’m Native American and my ancestors were pushed off of our land, beaten, killed, just for being a different color. For not practicing the same religion. When my ancestors tried to live as the white man said we should, we were further ridiculed, beaten and finally pushed to live on a reservation in a land unfamiliar to my nation. Knowing that, why would i deign to change my lifestyle only to be ridiculed, beaten and again pushed out of what is my land. i was a founder, first home here in AV, and this time, i will not roll over and let others walk all over me. If you have a problem with that, then so be it. i suggest this time that you be the one to leave, for this Native American refuses to leave his land anymore.
7. 

   gyrryl
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   I’m a founder, I’m a founder,
   I’m a founder, wooooo

   So is sister lulu and Master Dante too
   And Sir B, Sir Billy, Sir Roland, just to name a few
   And if you check our other lots there’s plenty
   more for you

   I tested with the rest and learned my lessons well
   Cause I know AV is heaven and Dyerbrook can go to hell

   gooooooo Rose Thorn Gardens
   Thorn and Petals too
   Fight Fight Fight
   for the Red White and Blue
8. 

   Carmen Ray
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   “I’m asking that you move to an adult server if Maxis could establish one.

   I speak for many in AV who are disturbed by the spread of BDSM but are intimidated from saying or doing anything by being bullied and bludgeoned with the charge of bigotry.”

   funny I have never been told that My persance in ANY home of BDSM nor vanilla was afencesive to A/any in the home.

   There is or was I have not been to her home in a while, a home owner that was protective of My sub while in her home, she was vanilla and was careful of what happend in her home, I have a great deal of respect for her. It didn’t matter who was in her house she watched out for all and knew many BDSMer’s and D/s and came to her house to skill.

   Oh and for those that you say are fearful of not wanting to speak up and say that they do not wish U/us at their home I have a feeling they releaise how much of an Impact this comunity has if not wanted in a perticuler lot. I know many that are not BDSM or D/s but would not go to a place that discrimiates to them nor anyone… so they would be looseing out on MANY.!

   Oh and for your coments dear of the fact that many that were not in the lifestyle before came and now are even in RL, hun know this for many it is a steping stone able to venture into something T/they had ideas or interested in but not very sure, comfortable and finding a completness with in T/their self T/they venture into RL if able to.

   Oh one more thought before it flutters away with the sorry exsuses of problems that you keep tring to say W/we have or bring….. Of all these others that don’t like U/us why is it that only two have shown you and the other women,???
   hmmm inquiering minds with to know…
   W/we many of the comunity have posted to show and give our thoughts, of this discution but it is seeming as many have already known that it is really not a larger issue but Your issue, I do hope that you will relaise this some time soon, altho I know the comunity is rather amused by this, only able to show that all your “claims” are false….

   Carmen
9. 

   Darksoul
   

   Dec 27th, 2003
   

   Dyerbrook, what’s this about you telling My sub that you had told Me personally to keep BDSM on My own lot…….only because she greeted the house she met you at politely? Methinks that someone that is trying to be a spokesman for all of AV would at least try to be polite to those you are trying to save from the “cult”. Isn’t it the subs that you feel oh so sorry for? Remember, in being rude, you lose your chance to “win their hearts and minds”. Oh, and BTW I an NOT naadirah’s “hubby”. He happens to be another Dom in game.

   Now for another dyerbrook quote: “Again, none of you used the Bonewits test for a cult” I did, scroll up about half a page, see it for yourself again in black and white, you replied to it as a matter of fact…..selective memory or short term memory loss dyerbrook?

   Next : “as only spoiled, rich Americans with way too much leisure time on their hands could do–”
   Hmmm, are you now privy to O/our personal finances? Most of U/us, contrary apparently to your beliefs work everyday to put bread on the table for O/our families…..and you’d be quite surprised how many in the community don’t even live in the states. A journalism teacher taught Me a long time ago to never assume anything. The meme that she used was that to ASS/U/ME makes an ASS out of U and ME.

   “Xbox”? nope, don’t buy microsoft products, and before you ask, no I didn’t buy Windows XP.

   “When I say “fabric of society” I mean something that makes a society cohere, something that it aspires to, its goals and aspirations as a binding factor.” For this one, I must applaud you personally dyerbrook. If you only knew what you have done for us, you’d be proud…..for several months, the community of AV D/s-M/s-Gor-BDSM has been fractured, split into little cliques for some good and some not so good reasons. You dyerbrook have done more to bring this community together, to make U/us speak with one voice than A/anyone ever has in the past. In providing U/us with a common threat, much like terrorism has the United States, you have made U/us stronger. I thank you Sir Dyerbrook. /sarcasm off
10. 

    toy
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    dyerbrook, you are just becoming tooooo funny now You ‘claim’ you have heard from so many that have been ‘recruited’ ‘abused’ ect. ect… by BDSM…. hmmm toy just realized you have backed off from us who are Gor. how interseting…;. but thatas beside the point.. toy wonders now why none of these so-called limitless people who have been harmed, recruited ect. ect… do not step forward to your aid? Oh. toy know expects to hear that they are in fear hehehe… but since you are the self-appointed Messiah of your cult toy can understand
    toy looks forward to your next posting but it really wouldnt be neccesary since you only copy and paste the same drvel over and over

    WAKE UP!!!!! we are staying in AV

    Slave’s Wish
    Allow me the strength to please us both.
    Allow me the spirit to feel the needs of others.
    Allow me the serenity to find peace in service.
    Allow me the self-love to expose myself.
    Allow me the tenderness to comfort.
    Allow me the light to show me the way.
    Allow me the wisdom to be an asset.
    Let me demonstrate, each day, my love and trust.
    Let me surrender completely.
    Let me accept punishment with grace.
    Let me learn from my mistakes.
    Teach me the perseverance to answer questions I can’t fathom.
    Grant me the power to give what is asked.
    Help me love myself.
    For it is my greatest wish, my highest desire:
    To complete Her life, as She completes mine.

    falara kajira toy

    BTW… toy would say she wishes she had been ‘recruited’ it would have allowed this girl to find herself much sooner than it did
11. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Darksoul, when your “sub” appeared on a vanilla skilling lot and said “Greetings A/all” I said, “I’m a free person in a free world and I don’t care to be greeted in that fashion. As I’ve told your Sim hubby, you should keep on the BDSM RP on your own lot.” Well, EXCUUUUSEEE ME if I didn’t know the difference between Sim hubby and the multiple relations of subs and doms, but the point holds. We can’t be expected to understand your arcane cult, and indeed, we could study endlessly, and we’d always be in the wrong, wouldn’t we? And that’s how you’d like to keep us, forever in your thrall, forever “in the dark” and “without knowledge” so that we can *depend on you* to enlighten us about your dark ways. Extraordinary, hmmm?

    Indeed, why I could make such a comment to your sub, coming fresh from these boards, is that some of you have said in this debate that you don’t go to other lots and do keep it on your lot or at least tone it down. I find the “A/all” greeting offensive because it implies that everyone on the lot is somehow a potential candidate — a recruit? — to this lifestyle and that’s insane. I don’t deserve either a capital A or a lower-case A in being addressed because I am free and treat others as equals.

    Many of you keep harping on examples of lot owners who are protective or at least not discouraging of your lifestyle. But you aren’t vanilla, and you haven’t talked to them as I have. Last night, going to skill lots, I found every single owner or roomie in charge of a dozen skill or money lots was uncomfortable, dismayed, unhappy, disturbed by the spread of BDSM. They’re not going to say that to you, duh. But they felt they could do nothing about it because “whatever floats their boats”. They felt that sometimes, they would maybe nudge someone who seemed to be RP-ing too hard and scaring away guests, but basically they did nothing *because they did not want to be accused of being bigots* consciously or unconsciously. They say “whatever floats their boats” even as they express dismay that in floating their own boats, the BDSM community has challenged the equilibrium of the whole boat of AV and indeed TSO.

    If you put the matter to a free and fair vote of every citizen of AV, with privacy of the vote, even with all the subs doing what their doms and dommes told them to do, and even with all the cheerleaders, there would be a collective decision to have a separate, hardcore adult server to keep BDSM separate. There’s no question of that. If you doubt that, you would never have had to storm AV in as large and as intentional a community as you have.

    There is unlikely to be such a vote or such a server, because Maxis would prefer to keep its head in the sand about it.

    I’m not going to go on speaking for intimidated people in a threatened society. Let them speak for themselves, it isn’t even a requirement that they put their in-game Sim name here on this blog. If they don’t come to post, they do come to read, and they IM me in silent acquiesence. It’s enough for me.

    Darksoul, do you have a learning disability or something? I myself suffer from dyslexia and disabilities but not short-term memory loss. When I said “none of you were using the Bonewits” test obviously that was a reference to Bonewits’ direct comment to me, just mentioned in the previous posts about three times over, about the ability to get out of a cult quick by logging off or deleting your Sim. It wasn’t about his overall test which you filled out, and which I filled out, in completely different manners. Your desire to play “gotcha” as if I was a member of your cult and enjoyed being coerced and shamed is really unseemly.

    People said that the U.S. created a magnet for terrorists and united the terrorist world and their supporters by attacking Iraq. It may be so. Others said, OK, let them fight those magnetized beasts where they are magnetized, at least they have become more visible now and everyone can see what louses they are, willing to kill their own people to make a point.

    If you have united so as to remain silent about the extreme ends of your spectrum, including Gor — unlike some of you in private conversations — then you have opened up the means by which the soccer moms or the right-wing congressmen will hang you. It won’t be my fault. I was begging you to differentiate…
12. 

    Linderella
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    “Many of you keep harping on examples of lot owners who are protective or at least not discouraging of your lifestyle. But you aren’t vanilla, and you haven’t talked to them as I have. Last night, going to skill lots, I found every single owner or roomie in charge of a dozen skill or money lots was uncomfortable, dismayed, unhappy, disturbed by the spread of BDSM. They’re not going to say that to you, duh. But they felt they could do nothing about it because “whatever floats their boats”. They felt that sometimes, they would maybe nudge someone who seemed to be RP-ing too hard and scaring away guests, but basically they did nothing *because they did not want to be accused of being bigots* consciously or unconsciously. They say “whatever floats their boats” even as they express dismay that in floating their own boats, the BDSM community has challenged the equilibrium of the whole boat of AV and indeed TSO.” ~Dyerbrook~

    ENOUGH! No one is complaining about U/us except YOU! If they honestly had a problem with U/us, they would say it to O/our faces as had many many many a property owner before them. We don’t flaunt, we don’t taunt and we sure as hell didn’t ask for the downfall of the Extreme lots. The fact that they fell when we stopped skilling there means only one thing ~ there are a lot more of U/us than you realize.

    Darksoul’s naadirah as well as all of U/us in the community will continue to address people when W/we enter a property as “Hello A/all” not to piss you off or to annoy the everyday missionary style sims but because it is the way W/we choose to address each other. I do not believe anyone said that she was in particular addressing you. And apparently, you were the only one vocal enough to discriminate against her. Trying to put her on the back of the bus again, huh, Dyerbrook? Maybe you weren’t around in the 1960′s but when Martin Luther King Jr. spoke of His dream, He didn’t say some people should be segregated. That would be discriminatory. But you don’t see it like that, trying to send us off to some less populated place. The history books are filled with people like you, usually not spoken of very highly or well, sometimes described as a “Dictator” or “Despot” or “Tyrant”, not words with pleasant connotations, are they?
13. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    I’m glad you raised Martin Luther King. One doesn’t have to be old enough to know him to appreciate his teachings. For example:

    “We must forever continue our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.”

    “If you sow the seeds of violence in your struggle, unborn generations will reap the whirlwind of social disintegration”

    And there are many more sayings about the wrongfulness of violence. Yes, the wrongness of violence! That you believe that violence can legitimately be used in sexual play and as the basis of a entire arcane and intricate lifestyle is wrong, and I will go on saying it is wrong. The preacher Martin Luther King would never in a million years have condoned your violent, coercive lifestyle — never in a million years. Your distorted appeal to his notions of fighting discrimination as applicable to preserving the freedoms of your cult to undermine society are just pathetic, and transparently so.

    To speak these obvious truths does not make me a tyrant or a dictator, but a person with some kind of moral standard based on the achievements of Judeo-Christian and other civilizations of the last 2000 years.

    Going to another server to pursue your hardcore violent and coercive sexual games is hardly the equivalent of blacks being sent to the back of the bus in America, and that you would trivialize their misery in that fashion speaks volumes more about the perversity of your cult.

    Others among you have asked, then, for me to go to the “back of the bus,” i.e. Dan’s Grove, so they are none too concerned about sending people to the back of the bus — Urizenus was first among them to say “why don’t YOU leave”. But let’s keep in mind that this notion of a separate, hardcore adult server is only a hypothetical option. We do not have a game company that is (yet) interested in the higher matters of community formation. All debate on this subject is censored. In the mean time, I plan to use my ignore button or boot button for those who come aggressively in pursuit, and I suggest that you do the same.
14. 

    toy
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    hmmmmm. to quotes……. ~I find the “A/all” greeting offensive because it implies that everyone on the lot is somehow a potential candidate — a recruit? — to this lifestyle and that’s insane. I don’t deserve either a capital A or a lower-case A in being addressed because I am free and treat others as equals.~ Honestly now can you say PARANOID????? a simple greeting now is somehow a recruiting item?? toy is sorry to say this dyerbrook but you are rapidly approaching the edge of needing psychological help

    Qouting again ~”Last night, going to skill lots, I found every single owner or roomie in charge of a dozen skill or money lots was uncomfortable, dismayed, unhappy, disturbed by the spread of BDSM. They’re not going to say that to you, duh. But they felt they could do nothing about it because “whatever floats their boats”.~

    again. can you say PARANOID??? toy will repeat once again and will type very s-l-o-w-l-y so thay you might listen for once… why dont these hypothetical people step forward here in defense of you? Perhaps they have a bit of something that you apparently lack… “COMMON SENSE”

    Quoting once again…. ~”If you put the matter to a free and fair vote of every citizen of AV, with privacy of the vote, even with all the subs doing what their doms and dommes told them to do, and even with all the cheerleaders, there would be a collective decision to have a separate, hardcore adult server to keep BDSM separate. There’s no question of that. If you doubt that, you would never have had to storm AV in as large and as intentional a community as you have.”~ ummm the last toy noticed there are numerous places to post a vote like what your saying… what is holding you back form doing so? PARANOIA????

    Quoting once again ~”When I said “none of you were using the Bonewits” test obviously that was a reference to Bonewits’ direct comment to me, just mentioned in the previous posts about three times over, about the ability to get out of a cult quick by logging off or deleting your Sim. It wasn’t about his overall test which you filled out, and which I filled out, in completely different manners. Your desire to play “gotcha” as if I was a member of your cult and enjoyed being coerced and shamed is really unseemly.”~ have you taken the test while thinking of what your ideas are?? toy notices that if you did this it may be apparent that you are trying to start or foment a cult

    and one final quote ~”If you have united so as to remain silent about the extreme ends of your spectrum, including Gor — unlike some of you in private conversations — then you have opened up the means by which the soccer moms or the right-wing congressmen will hang you. It won’t be my fault. I was begging you to differentiate…”~ um this is getting repetive PARANOID!!!!!!!
    where is this support of yours that is screaming to be heard or recognized? toy sees no one here or in TSO who spouts the drivel that you are convinced exists… really now dyerbrook… slow down on the meds they are really starting to effect your thought process

    oh excuse toy a moment the phone is ringing. perhaps its a right wing congressman that is soooo interseted in this and going to order this girl to DG

    toy in all seriousness will talk to her uncle next week about this situation.. he happens to be a US Senator and he also enjoys a good laugh

    falara kajira toy
15. 

    toy
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    umm dyer…… your trying to twist a wonderful mans teachings to start your own anti-BDSM/Gor cult sorry. but it is obvious you are becoming desperate now

    toy would like to congratulate you on one item though It seems you hve realized that sending us to the ‘back of the bus’/DG would fail toy thanks you for backing off of th meds, see how it opens ones eyes to the obvious

    falara kajira toy
16. 

    Linderella
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    “And there are many more sayings about the wrongfulness of violence. Yes, the wrongness of violence!” ~Dyerbrook~

    The problem here is your perception of violence. In my Webster’s, violence is defined as “physical force used so as to injure, damage or destroy, extreme roughness of action”. By this definition, the BDSM lifestyle is non-violent. The Dom is not out to cause injury or damage. It is consensual play between adults. You may not enjoy pain with your pleasure, but that does not mean we would deny you that pleasure. Nor would we tie you up and beat you to force you to learn to accept our pleasure. To each his own, we always say. We live our lives for our own sake, our own happiness and our own desires. When you try to tell us what we are doing is wrong, that means you are judging us. We never said your missionary, same as before lifestyle was wrong. It is different but it is not wrong. We will continue to let you live it with your soccer mom and your Range Rover in the driveway and your BMW in the garage. But that is not the life we choose for us. We have the right to live our life the way we want to. I live in the USA, we have a Declaration of Independence that says just that “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”. Getting spanked before sex makes me happy. Live with it.
17. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    I don’t have a soccer mom, a Range Rover or a BMW, and I like it crab-style, not missionary style. ; ) That you can erase the meaning of the word “violence” by inserting the notion of consent is what is your perversity. The very term “vanilla” contains a perjorative. Couldn’t there be vanilla with sprinkles on top? The fact of the matter is, the lifestyles that you enjoy are zoned and curbed and discouraged in most communities of the U.S. There’s nothing somehow peculiar about what I believe. Even if I had a soccer mom, a BMW, etc. that would not change.
18. 

    Lord Gavril
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Good day A/all

    Tell Me Dyerbrook, why are you here, truly. You seem to be beating a dead horse. I also cant stay away from thinking, you certainly have load of time to post forth the missives you do.
    You have said your points, some are valid, which folks have said as much on, but, you have a need to do this it seems. So whats your story Dyerbrook, have you decided to take the reins of leadership for these unfortunates that cant seem to cummunicate on their own behalf? I’ll give you one thing again Dyerbrook. You do have a loud voice, albeit only one.
    In ending, I’ll make a comment to your point of policing My community better. Well, these folks are adults, and I do trust them to handle their affairs, themselves.

    Be Well

    Regards

    Gavril

    *Burn any books lately Dyerbrook?*
19. 

    toy
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    pure farce dyer. name one place in the US where what the following quote of yours holds true

    ~I don’t have a soccer mom, a Range Rover or a BMW, and I like it crab-style, not missionary style. ; ) That you can erase the meaning of the word “violence” by inserting the notion of consent is what is your perversity. The very term “vanilla” contains a perjorative. Couldn’t there be vanilla with sprinkles on top? The fact of the matter is, the lifestyles that you enjoy are zoned and curbed and discouraged in most communities of the U.S. There’s nothing somehow peculiar about what I believe. Even if I had a soccer mom, a BMW, etc. that would not change.~

    as far as being called ‘vanilla’ is that any worse than You calling us cultists? toy fears not and there could be many other terms used but vanilla is one that is fitting. vanilla as in ‘straight laced’ and just what is wrong with a BMW??? hehehehe
20. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    *yawn*
21. 

    Linderella
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Besides which, my dear toy, since I pointed out to him that by Webster’s own definition, we are not violent as he so stated, he now backpedals to say okay maybe you are not violent but you are perverse.
    So let’s see what Webster’s has to say about perverse: “deviating from what is considered right or good; wrong; improper, etc. or corrupt, wicked, etc.; perverted”
    Well that is a fairly open definition. What Dyerbrook considers right vs what I consider right leaves a big open window for perversity. Let’s try another definition, shall we?
    Webster’s second definition of perverse is “persisting in error or fault, stubbornly contrary” and the third “obstinately disobedient or difficult; intractable”
    Gee, I think Webster’s 2nd & 3rd definitions of perverse describe you, Dyerbrook. So I think you are the perverse one here, not U/us.
22. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Dear Linderella,

    Webster’s definitions don’t refer to what I personally think, they refer to what is generally accepted — the standard — of the community of English-language speaking people around the world. That you would think these definitions had to do with my own personal judgement is just too hilarious! ROFLMAO! As far as stubborness, well, I know it can be a surprise to find someone who stands up to you, since you’ve been so busy standing up to everything that everyone else believes in so long. But there you have it. And far from back-pedalling, I continue to maintain that you are engaged in a violent, coercive cult. A violent, coercive cult, and that becomes more and more explicit with each succeeding post.
23. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Sometimes, you can talk and talk, and really, it will never sum up the points as well as your opponent in a debate. And here I’ve discovered this lovely little ditty on a Sim on Lady Julianna’s lot, and anthem for the BDSM crowd, a set of postulates that are breath-taking in their perversity and their violence, both to the human body, the human soul, and to meaning in general. Here they are:

    Slave screams he thinks he knows what he wants
    Slave screams thinks he has something to say
    Slave screams he hears but doesn’t want to listen
    Slave screams he’s being beaten into submission
    Don’t open your eyes you won’t like what you see
    The devils of truth steal the souls of the free.
    Don’t open your eyes take it from me
    I have found
    You can find
    Happiness is slavery
    NIN

    It’s very simple. There are some people — you all are among them — who find these lyrics inspire them and are “just fine” and are “protected speech” and are many things that make them feel warm and cosy.

    And there are others who are chilled to the marrow of their bones that our society should produce such things in the name of freedom. And I will go on being one. Sometimes, life is about choices. AV also has its choices. You can choose whether you want these lyrics to be the anthem of AV or TSO, or not. I do not choose them. I have placed my stake in the ground.
24. 

    Ummah
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Okay dyerbrook please tell Me what kind of person is in to D/s, M/s, and BDSM? I would surely like to know. I don’t think I was coerced or brainwashed into joining. The only coercion I see is on your part to “save” U/us and O/others like U/us from what? O/ourselves… You know the funny thing is you are striking out at people who are very loving and kind all because you and your tender sensibilties are offended. W/we are into the Lifestyle by choice. It is Freedom of choice that frightens you ?
    Or the the fact that W/we indulge in O/our fantasies or is it that you are intrigued and ashamed by the little thoughts that go through your mind?
    Most of U/us know who W/we are dyerbrooke and that is what led U/us to this Lifestyle…Is it a perversion?(I will not quibble with semantics here) or is it people who live a better Real Life because they choose to Role Play something as different as D/s. As to why some one would portray a Dom/me or a sub it has to do with personalities..A person who has a very strong will and is always in control may choose to be a submissive for the very reason of giving up control to someone else. It is not just sexual but emotional as well. Oh and btw dyerbrook, I AM the vanilla with sprinkles……..I’m just your average suburban working mommy with a bit of a kink. (and Darksoul’s wifey FYI)

    Ummah
25. 

    Mikal
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    i just had to respond to the fact that you have repeatedly said that lot owners feel threatened into allowing BDSM players onto their lot. During some investigative research, i have found that lots 1 – 15 in the skill category say that they have no problems with any member or any group coming to their property to skill. They all said that as long as don’t pick on other guests, aren’t rude, and behave they do not have a problem with their presence on the property. The same was true of the money lots. As long as don’t steal, bother other guests, nor cause trouble they do not have issues with BDSM players being on their lots. Some curious comments did come up however. Certain sim names kept creeping up, and a group called SAP was listed as unwanted on certain properties. All properties said no taggers, theifs nor liars welcome. One house supports all radio stations and all groups. Taggers are not welcome however. Every house that was asked, the same was said. All are welcome. i find it very interesting that you say they said one thing, and another vanilla sim, a sim that is not affiliated with BDSM, gets a totally different response. Hmmm….since a lot said liars aren’t welcome…….hmmmm…oh well….guess time will tell….
26. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    hmm.. Good job Mikal I am very proud of you dear. So Dyerbrook, you are a group of one? Or should we count Lord Cheetah as well as two? Where are these others you talk about? I don’t see anyone else posting with you here.
27. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Last night, as I said, I went to a dozen lots, in skills, money-making, and greening (coffee), oh, and also one in romance. I did not hit lots no. 1-15 in the top slots in skills, it is a different sample than what Mikal hit. Because Mikal has BDSM displayed on his profile and is part of your lot/circle, *of course* the lot owners are going to say they don’t have a problem with BDSM. They would take it as a polite question that they must answer politely or feel the wrath of the “mind your manners” crowd. They don’t like it, but they want to go along with the PC crowd and feel that no one can accuse them of being bigoted — they are lot owners, and they want visitors.

    I’m not going to forcibly out those people who made these comments to me, nor drag them by the hand or hair to come and “testify” as you are clearly doing. I don’t use those methods of coercion. If they don’t chose to make a comment publicly, that’s their choice. I’m merely reporting to you what I found. You can take it or leave it. It is a sign of distress, but because it isn’t coded with the special arcane “uncle” word that you contract between dom and sub, you do not choose to hear it and you beat it into submission by slamming me with false charges of lying. What these people told me was from their hearts. This isn’t a lie, but what was told by one vanilla to another — that *they are made uncomfortable by your lifestyle, don’t like it, and don’t want it to take over AV*. ***They are distressed by it***. They may tolerate the presence of BDSM because they dont’ like conflict or friction in the game. Most people don’t.

    Can you understand those subtleties? I think not. It doesn’t matter if you have bullied people into saying they love having you — whether subtly, with the fear of being labeled a bigot — or more harshly, with the fear of the whip. It doesn’t matter, because we know the truth. There are a great many people frankly dismayed at what you represent, which is the breakdown of society in Alphaville. Dress it up as you like, but that’s what it means.

    Oh, and I heard another thing today that surprised even me. Another Sim told me knew of something like 4-5 Sims who were once in BDSM, but left.

    Left?!

    Why?

    There were too many rules. LOL.
28. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Mikal went in as another sim he has who is vanilla, no BDSM on his profile. And if you know 4 or 5 who left, then it can’t be a cult. Yes, we do have rules to protect subs and we police ourselves. Your arguments grow more hysterical and whiny little man. Give it up. You are alone, powerless, and there is not a thing you can do about our presence except whine.

    Small men are like small dogs. They tend to yap a lot.
29. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Comments gathered just now from prop owners or roomies in charge of props on the top 15 skill list — oh, so different than the comments you gathered!

    1. “I am ok with their presence as long as their conversations in the room dont become to graphic. If that occurs I ask them to tone it down and if they dont they they are booted and banned.”

    2. “I support peoples right to choose a life whatever they want.”

    3. “Explain to me what BDSM and then I’ll answer.” [Still didn't get it after several more sentences but then couldn't figure out what to think].

    4. “I don’t agree with it but they never cause any problems here so why not.”
    [Do you find it disturbing?] “Yes, a little. I have noticed a lot of them around.”

    Let me suggest to you that this is very different sentiment than what Mikal claims to be tapping into. This is the sentiment of people who *are uncomfortable*. Can you understand that? Their discomfort might well grow. And they’ve had actual experiences where they feel the RP has gone too far, and they have asked people to leave their lots, or even booted them.

    Now that would suggest that explicit RP should be kept in private on romance lots rather than flaunted on all the generic lots *as a matter of courtesy and manners*.
30. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Lady Julianna, you hope to achieve by insults what you cannot achieve by intelligent argument. This little yapping dog isn’t biting LOL.

    Mikal’s vanilla sim is probably one of the less-better-kept secrets of AV and IH LOL.

    Another lot owner just commented. “I tell them to tone it down.” Interesting. There is a *need* to *tone it down* perceived in the community. Will you heed it?
31. 

    Linderella
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Stop trying to coerce U/us into your violent, perverse way of thinking, you narrow-minded, narcisstic blowhard. The more you talk, the more W/we laugh at you behind O/our little sim hands.
    NO PROOF.
    NO PROOF.
    NO PROOF.
    You have your grimy little mind set and nothing anyone can say is right, only what you think is right. Think again. I will repeat that as a citizen of the United States of America, I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This is my basic right, earned and fought for by my ancestors who were in this country during the revolution. No one is going to deny me my rights. NO ONE. Especially not a narrow-minded BIGOT like you. I have the right to be spanked, whipped, tied up, branded, collared and to do all of those to another consenting adult whenever I want. If you don’t like it, tough! Neither you nor any other despotic tyrant will ever take away my basic freedoms as a citizen of the USA. So give it a rest!
32. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Toning it down does not apply to me since I almost never go into the vanilla community.
33. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Linderella,

    Stop trying to coerce me into your violent, perverse way of thinking, you narrow-minded, narcissistic blowhard. The more you talk, the more I laugh at you behind my little sim hands.
    NO PROOF.
    NO PROOF.
    NO PROOF…that your violent cult is right.

    You have your grimy little mind set and nothing anyone can say is right, only what you think is right. Think again. I will repeat that as a citizen of the United States of America, I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This is my basic right, earned and fought for by my father who came to this country in search of freedom from political oppression, and many other old and new immigrants. No one is going to deny me my rights. NO ONE. Especially not a narrow-minded BIGOT like you. I have the right to declare that your choice to be spanked, whipped, tied up, branded, collared and to do all of those to another consenting adult whenever I want *is questionable* and *is immoral* and *is destructure to the fabric of society*. If you don’t like it, tough! Neither you nor any other despotic tyrant will ever take away my basic freedoms as a citizen of the USA. So give it a rest!

    And by the way, you’re rubber, and I’m glue, and whatever you say to me bounces of me and sticks to you.
34. 

    Mikal
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    You should actually read before you post. i went in, as Mistress said as a vanilla sim..no bdsm on my profile. I asked about not just BDSM, but other groups as well. If you wish i shall quote a few, leaving out the names of them for their protection, as you have also done. “I support all radio stations and groups although taggers are not welcome”. “I do not disgrunt against any group. All are welcome at my house”. “As long as they don’t steal, bother other guests, i see no reason why they should be banned from my lot.” “All are welcome as long as they mind their manners.” ; “I have no problems with any group coming as long a don’t start trouble”, and one last one, “Scammers, SAP members are not welcome at my property.” So, just because i talked to the top lots, that means it doesn’t represent the city? But all the lots you talked to do? Hmm…sounds like someone got his undies in a knot and can’t seem to get it undone.
35. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Mikal, what part of “tone it down” didn’t you understand? And what part of “the vanilla sim is the least-best-secret” didn’t you understand? And what part of “uncomfortable” didn’t you understand? Or have you lost all reason? I talked to the very same top 15 skill lots, duh, just now. I had interesting conversations with them. I reported them faithfully, even if they didn’t represent my point of view. In fact, some of them represent your point of view. But what I captured, and which you didn’t capture, because you don’t want to hear it, is the level of discomfort people are experiencing, and the desire to tone it down. I guess we can’t expect you to “mind your manners” in the same way that you belligerently demand of all who visit your lots.

    I’m just about done with this conversation. I don’t see any new points emerging. Until someone new comes along with some unsaid point, I don’t feel it is worth replying. It may be important to you always to be right, and always to have the last word. It isn’t important to me. “You have not convinced a man because you have silenced him.”
36. 

    Lord Gavril
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Good Eve A/all

    I dont want to be understood by the masses.
    The fewer folks who enjoy what I do, the more pleased I am. I get a nice warm feeling knowing you truly dont get the what and why of what I do for pleasure.
    Dyerbrook, some folks just arent meant to get what it is We do for fun, pleasure etc. You seem to be one of them. This in itself is fine, but you cant change people, and their curiosity to know about new things. People will come and go from bdsm, D/s, TPE relationships etc. The trick is, are you going to judge all of them for doing what they feel they must at the time?
    I think what you need to ask now, is, why do We enjoy the spankings, floggings, whippings and other fun filled activities. The body is a very interesting toy, meant to be played with. When One cares to find out about it of course.

    *Endorphins, a truly wonderful thing*

    Be Well

    Regards

    Gavril
37. 

    Mikal
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Hmm…seems like i stepped on someones toes just now…and seems to me like you believe that you are the only one who is right and that only what you report to be true is true. That is such a lopsided point of view that it is not even remotely funny. Only you seem to wish other groups, other than those that you deem worthy, to leave AV. rolls eyes…sheesh…i hope that i did silence you for i sure wasn’t trying to convert you….only actually show that not all are wishing U/us to leave or are uncomfortable with O/our presence. You say that i only here what i wish to hear? i believe that that would be that you only hear what you wish to hear, i am open minded and hear and listen to all….can you actually say the same about being open minded? i think not…….have a wonderful evening A/all…..i refuse to discuss this with Dyerbrook any longer as he is a close minded person who has stuck himself up on his horse and has designated himself as the only one who knows what is best for AV and all in the city.
38. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Why are you still responding? Or more importantly, where is this group you spoke to me of? Why are they not here rallying to your cause?

    You are alone, powerless, only able to make loud noises. If there is to be a loser in this discussion, it is you, for you stand alone. We stand with friends and community around us. I pity you little man.
39. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Why are you still responding? Or more importantly, where is this group you spoke to me of? Why are they not here rallying to your cause?

    You are alone, powerless, only able to make loud noises. If there is to be a loser in this discussion, it is you, for you stand alone. We stand with friends and community around us. I pity you little man.
40. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Regarding the group of people who are unhappy with your cult:

    1. One has filed a petition against you for transmitting pornography across frontiers and publishing the URL on your profile. Why should you get to keep your URL in the game, but http://www.alphavilleherald.com is banned, or for that matter, my website?

    2. Another has cancelled a subscription, appalled at the spread of BDSM, and has filed a letter with Maxis asking them to create a separate adult server and to take a closer look at BDSM in the game.

    3. A third has gone to play other Sims in other cities because AV has become such a low-life place.

    And so on. Who cares?
41. 

    Darksoul
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    So you want AV to have a theme song huh dyerbrook?
    I submit nickelback…….

    I like your pants around your feet
    And I like the dirt that’s on your knees
    And I like the way you still say please
    While you’re looking up at me
    You’re like my favorite damn disease
42. 

    Ummah
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    How about this one……

    Domination’s the name of the game
    In bed or in life
    They’re both just the same
    Except in one you’re fulfilled
    At the end of the day

    Master and Servant…..Depeche Mode
43. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    My website url is not on my profile. Look again. It never was on my profile.
44. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    I am sure Maxis is aware of my website and finds it not objectionable. There is no pornography on it, no profanity, no nudity. There is creative writing there, and general info on BDSM. None of this violates TOS.
45. 

    Darksoul
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    How do you transmit porn thru a game with no file transfer capability?
46. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 27th, 2003
    

    Even my stories, BDSM theme or not, do not contain sex. There is no graphic or described sex on my website at all.
47. 

    brigit
    

    Dec 28th, 2003
    

    Quote….from dyerbrook…8:53pst 12/27….Your rubber and i’m glue…what ever you say bounces off me and sticks to you….um nooo your glue you just said so…..duh…..

    ah well i see it is easy to get ones thoughts all jumbled up isn’t it dyerbrook…..

    ok cheer time

    rah rah rah…..sis boom bah…..your such a prude …and really rude….while manners we keep….you act like a creep….la la la….spank my bum…..i’ll end this now….my cheer is done….

    and i heard Him exclaim as He rode out of sight…..Happy spankings to all….and to all a good night……….

    *sticks up finger beside the middle one at dyerbrook as she is not allowed to use the middle one*

    Sir Matthews girl…………….brigit
48. 

    sugar/nikristai
    

    Dec 28th, 2003
    

    Ok Im back again… sorry was having fun with my hubby in RL today… I find it hilariously funny that I posted some very valid comments and they were ignored… Was it because I didnt attack anyone personally and actually said things that made sense??? I would certainly hope so and if thats the case *pats myself on the back*

    Ive noticed that the person attacking the community is grasping at straws for argumentative material LMFAO wich is just funny in and of it self.

    If you are an adult and your whole main worry was an adult server to protect the children (which was your original statement) why cant AV be the adult server??? Because you are offended by our way of life??? Are you offended by Gays and Lesbians??? D/s is an alternative lifestyle…some CHOOOOSE to get spanked, flogged, whipped, and tied up… some CHOOOSE not to do any of those BDSM kinks, rather choosing just to submit mentally and emotionally. Do you tell someone who has a foot fetish that they are a morally corrupt person??? Spankings, floggings, whippings, and being tied up are all kinks… some like one thing others like another thing… some like a combo of both. I myself like to be tied up and spanked with a ping pong paddle the most (a christmas present I gave hubby this year)*smiles big*

    I have NEVER EVER gone onto a “vanilla” lot and roleplayed in anyway… and I’ve never seen anyone else from the community roleplay on a “regular” lot.

    The fact that you didnt respond to things I had to say and the fact your grasping at rediculous things like trying to claim that Lady Julianna is sending porn out or has porn on her sight is just so gosh dayum hilarious and shows that you truely are in your fight against adults living thier life the way they want to live it all on your own.

    *kneeling down in front of her Arianei’gi resting on her heels placing lil kisses all over His feet as she runs her hands along the back of His calves* Now this is where I love to be *smiles big*
49. 

    toy
    

    Dec 28th, 2003
    

    wow dyerbrook 3 nameless people you now claim. OMKG this is overwhelming toy better pack her bags and head out the door to DG PUHLEEZE get serious dyerbrook you are putting yourself up as a complete laughing stock throughout AV toy once again asks.. why dont these so called patriots of yours step forward or is this lil slave girl to frightening to confront?

    but then again for anyone to step forward and be counted beside you would also be shown as a laughing stock so rave on dyerbrook you are nothing but entertainment and rather pathetic now

    falara kajira toy ™
50. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Dec 28th, 2003
    

    All of you are invited to look at my website to see for yourselves that Dyer does not know what he is talking about. You will see that there is no pornography on it, no nudity, no profanity. Read my BDSM story there… no sex in it. As for violence, you will find more in kids’ shows on TV.

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