The Alphaville Herald

255 Responses to “Interview with Gorean Mistress Maria LaVeaux and her slave, Toy”

1. 

   Urizenus
   

   Jan 4th, 2004
   

   Gee, a Stratics moderator killed an interesting discussion thread. Now there’s a surpise. Dyerbrook, you can invite those people to participate in this thread, or we could open a new thread to accomodate them here.
2. 

   Dyerbrook
   

   Jan 4th, 2004
   

   I doubt they will want to come over to a thread where they will be slammed to death for saying the kinds of things they innocently said over there, but I will invite them — although I don’t know hardly any of them or their names in the game.

   Let me also point out that when I talked about how we “went a year without BDSM” you all know EXACTLY what I mean. That doesn’t mean that there’s wasn’t a house here and there. There was Roissy, there were a few others in Alpha and elsewhere. But they weren’t an organized, intentional community with malice aforethought. And that’s what they became in recent months. As one BDSM source told me, and as another told a Sim close to me, they had a plan to come in AV en masse, to form a big neighborhood, so that people who were “close-minded” and “bigots” couldn’t keep them from growing and doing their thing. And what they do now isn’t just stay in one lot and do their thing as they might have once done on Roissy or a few others. They fan out all over AV and aggressively pursue their lifestyle, to the dismay of everyone in their path.

   Last night, as I sat on a skill lot with 3-4 of them stalking and harassing me, and play-acting their BDSM shtick with the master-this and mistress-that, a 19-year-old boy, self proclaimed, was sitting on the couch. And I pointed out that while these BDSM authoritarians bar under 21 from their lots, and count themselves as such good policemen in doing so, in acting out their routines in ordinary skill lots, every under 21 under the sun is exposed to them and their profiles and their antics. And THAT is the problem. And if you don’t get that, you’ve lost all reason and sanity.

   The BDSMers thought the lot owners and roomies were oh, so, tolerant and oh, so unlike that narrow-minded kook Dyerbrook. But later, I asked the roomie in charge what she thought of BDSM. She hates it. “I would call no man master,” she said. What was her plan to deal with it, and the fact that kids were in the room under 21? “Well, I’m going to watch the convo, hun, and if it gets worse, I’ll boot them.” What a thing to have to add to your concerns in running a lot.

   I’m heartened by the Stratics thread, which is the first one that as ever been allowed at least to stand, locked, unlike those UNTHREADS in which I and Tommy Morta and others take part in which are simply wiped off the board as if they never existed. I hoped this remains locked, but not an UNTHREAD down the memory hole for a time at least…but hurry to read it because there is always that risk.
3. 

   toy
   

   Jan 4th, 2004
   

   toy wishes now to add something again that is about what it is to be a Gorean slave

   this is something toy has used many times in the past for explaining what a kajira feels and what a kajira is

   ~What is a Gorean slave girl?~
   A Gorean slave girl in the books had no choices from birth.
   She was born into slavery and kept or sold depending on the whim of her owner.
   A Gorean slave girl on Earth (on-line or off-line) has a conscious choice.
   Although her belly tells her she is slave and she aches to serve and please,
   she CAN make the choice not to allow herself into slavery. Should she chose to follow her natural instincts,
   her belly will tell her which collar to beg…..and once the Free places Their steel on her,
   she has no more choices – she obeys Them totally or she fails being what she is.

   In either case, (on Gor or on Earth) the slave girl’s sole purpose is to please the Free
   and her Owner in particular. In either case,
   she is acutely aware of the Natural Order and that her place is at the feet of the Free.
   She has a belly-burning need to please that goes way beyond desire. It consumes her mind,
   body, heart and soul and she is helpless to do anything but respond to it.
   A slave girl does not have to be taught her purpose…she feels in her belly the ache to serve and to please.
   We hear that a hundred times a week in online Gor… but it is, quite simply, the truth of it.
   Her tummy physically pulls in her, cramps and contracts with ache and need to serve and be found pleasing.
   Her heart rejoices each time she is told she has pleased a Free Person
   and aches when she has been found not so pleasing. Her Owner becomes the focus of her life….
   she awakes from sleep in the morning thinking of her Owner…spends her day wanting her Owner,
   thoughts of her Owner and being with her Owner consume her…
   deep joy and excitement overtake her when she is with her Owner…
   she drifts to sleep at night with thoughts of her Owner, awaking,
   often in the night with the fever and ache for her Owner….
   then, morning comes and she wakes to thoughts of her Owner again…..
   She feels her slavery to her Owner all the time, no matter what she is doing or who she is with.
   When she is not with her Owner, she yearns to return to her Owner as quickly as possible.

   She gives herself to her Owner totally… surrendering herself to her Owner and her Owners will,
   holding nothing back. She aches for her Owners teaching and her Owners guidance in order that she can learn
   to be a slave most pleasing to her Owner. Kneeling at her Owners feet,
   listening to her Owners instructions absolutely overwhelm her with happiness
   as she feels she can take one more step to being what she so desperately needs to be:
   a slave that pleases her Owner.
   She knows that she must act in a manner that would bring her Owner pride
   and happiness in her Owners possession. She wants to be worthy for her Owner.
   She is obligated to make her Owner aware of her needs, desires, thoughts and questions.
   her Owner has no responsibility to react to these things should her Owner chose not to
   but her Owner must be told everything…. for how else can her Owner make decisions for her.

   she knows that if she forgets her place or is found displeasing by her Owner that her Owner will punish her.
   she knows that her place at her Owners feet is tentative at best….
   that she had better behave or her Owner will send her away.
   her Owner is strong enough to punish her or toss her aside if
   she does something her Owner finds unacceptable. her Owner may care for her, even deeply..
   her Owner might even love her in her Owners way…
   but that will never stop her Owner from discarding her if she displeases her Owner.
   It will always be her Owners choice to decide if she is worth punishment to be taught a lesson or not.
   If not, out she goes!!! There may or may not be love for the Owner..
   but an on-line slave girl surely saw in the Owner something that drew her to her Owner, specifically..
   something that made her beg her Owners collar and not that of another…
   and it is a natural evolution of the slave girl’s heart (although not always) from devotion, adoration,
   trust, commitment, obedience… to fall in love with the Owner who owns her, disciplines her, cares for her.

   In short *smiles as she looks above and realizes there is nothing short about her ramblings here*…..
   The Gorean Slave Girl is a piece of property. Owned by a Free person who can do with it as He/She wishes.
   The slave must obey immediately and without hesitation or question.
   The property is strictly held for the pleasure of it’s Owner and if it’s Owner finds no pleasure in it,
   then it will be thrown out. However, if the slave IS found pleasing, then there are no boundries to the joy,
   gratification and delight that both Owner and slave can experience with each other.

   this girl thanks you for your patience

   toy lives with this inside her and gives thanks each day that she discovered herself and was never discouraged in her learning.
   toy has also found so much support through even the hard times when she was confused and many just spoke to her with understanding

   toy will forever be grateful for the support she has always recieved by others

   falara kajira toy

   kari braksa
4. 

   Catseye
   

   Jan 4th, 2004
   

   Dyer Dyer Dyer *chuckles*

   THANK YOU….

   you have done more for our community in the past week than we have done for ourselves please keep it up…

   Yes you are our recruiter think about it your getting people curious enough to ask questions and come to the BDSM houses and look what really goes on there thank you you Have actually gotten the community to come together as one to speak out against you thank you… you are like the Japanese were when they bombed pearl harbor like Osma when he ordered the WTC attacked we are now united thank you…

   your statement “BDSM involves performing activities that in any other setting — and often in this one — would be crimes of assault or kidnapping or enslavement.”

   fails to mention consentual maybe it was meant lets look it over…

   Boxing is Assualt yet legal and a teen activity
   Wrestling is Assualt yet legal and a teen activity
   Football (US) is Assualt techinally and legal and a teen activity
   Paint Ball is Assualt and legal and a teen event

   hmm but they are consentual

   Enslavement… how can you enslave someone who doesnt wish to leave?

   Kidnapping.. How can you Kidnap who wishes to stay close to you?

   you go from morality to legal or try to yet you just cant reach your goal but ok say you *cough* win who’s morals are we going to use?

   Germany Legal drinking age is what 13? prostitution is legal

   the Netherlands Legal drugs Prostitution

   Canada Legal marijunia in some cases

   Arabic? Harems

   US? have to drop gambling in game for under 21
   Have to drop love lots in game for under 16
   have to drop taverns and bars in game for under 21
   Have to figure out which State laws apply as well..

   Sodomy illegal so no Homosexual’s allowed

   Hot Kiss must be dropped Sexual content
   Dip Kiss dropped Sexual content
   Grovel BDSM action
   Worship BDSM action
   Sexy Wiggle Sexual content

   and you know what happens when all of that happens? you can log in and talk to the other poor guy that is in game who cant afford to go to THERE… or some other game where it is actually fun…

   Your scattergun is running out of Ammo.. but please please PLEASE reload I love answering the questions you are raising to those who didnt notice or have an idea what BDSM was til you started ranting and raving…

   we do not ban over 21 we activally try to ban over 18 from our lots.. and yes I agree some lots are not as strict as others but we do try to police our own..

   Thank you again Dyer
5. 

   Catseye
   

   Jan 4th, 2004
   

   LOL edit the above to

   we do not ban over 21 we activally try to ban under 18 from our lots.. and yes I agree some lots are not as strict as others but we do try to police our own..

   Thank you again Dyer
6. 

   Darksoul
   

   Jan 5th, 2004
   

   Stalking dyer? I think not, skilling quietly, being O/ourselves, then you insult us by calling U/us freaks and run. You’re a sniveling little coward dyer, you can spout off here all you want, but you certainly don’t show yourself to be brave in game, now do you? Yes dyer, when meeting T/those from the community, you run back to your locked little home, so you don’t have to face reality. Myself and mine were there to skill and had no idea that there were two subs on the property that W/we didn’t even know, until you started rambling on about freaks and ran away….then P/people wanted to know what was going on and W/we discovered that the other two subs were there. Stalking, conspiracy….nope……just a twisted little man with his paranoid world view. Yes dyer the world IS out to get you, I will say that just so you’ll continue to barricade yourself in your house behind the iggy button. That’s a good place for you to be. Ohh BTW, a teenager that was there was so impressed by your objection to U/us that she put on her bio in a joking manner that she was a sub belonging to another teen girl there….tsk….tsk….contributing to the delinquency of teens…..you should be ashamed of yourself. You should be reported to Maxis Methinks.

   Darksoul

   Darksoul
7. 

   brigit
   

   Jan 5th, 2004
   

   jerag Toy……….your words are my feelings exactly….for my Master…..there is not one minute of the day when He is not right with me… His words follow me wherever i go… i go to sleep thinkng of Him and my first thought for the day is of Him….

   we are very similar…..when our slave/sub lives meet the one………the one intended for us all along………we can both feel this pull…this intense feeling in our gut…our belly that pulls us and cramps……when we are not near …or when we need to come up with new ways to show our deep submission ……..

   i see differences yet many things are exactly the same for the committed partnership’s that are started here…for slaves and subs alike..the ones where a true connection is felt and grows ……

   this is how this sub woman….brigit/ana feels about her Master ….Matthew Gilham has taken everything this girl has to offer….and only made it better…..made me better

   i was so very worried that once He left the TSO game it would be devistating for me….and it was tramatic i must admit…but i was not abandoned nor was i left…..i was taken to yet a new level in our relationship….in His ownership of me… and it only gets better…

   i tell Him every single day how grateful i am that i was the lucky one….that it was me that was chosen to belong to Him as i know there were and still are many who would jump at the chance to be in my place…..

   yes sister/jerag Toy i am a grateful sub that has the same deep feelings….i may not call myself a slave….but if it was what He wanted at this point ….yes i would be His slave…willingly and gratefully to be allowed to lie at His feet and do what ever He wished now and forever…..

   Sir Matthews girl………..brigit
8. 

   Urizenus
   

   Jan 5th, 2004
   

   Here is the Stratics thread that Dyerbrook was talking about up above. Judge for yourselves.

   http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/sims/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tsogeneral&Number=45032&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1&what2=postlist&selv=&vwhich=
9. 

   Catseye
   

   Jan 5th, 2004
   

   Thank you Uri for posting that link there was some good reading in there showing what most of us believe live and let live…

   also I noted that it was locked because it could become raunchier not that it was raunchier…

   I personally agree on most of their view points with 13 year olds etc but we can only keep the honest kids out dishonest ones can get around anything and I seiously doubt any wanting to learn about BDSM turn to TSO to do so when there are more hardcore sights out there… plus they can just log into any chat room and learn it is the parents responsibilty to know what there Kids are doing both real and virtual my son wont be on the net until I think he is mature enough to do so… as I wilk not partake in a scene with someone I do not know for a bit so I can determine they are of age… Simple we only can ask and watch to police but most of us ask and do watch where the others do not and I am speaking of the love lots..

   Would there be a problem with a BDSM skill house? I ran one for a few months and broke into the top 20 with it BF Slave to Charisma there was no Sexual activity going on in there after all we were an all age lot and I met some people who were nice..

   but what bothered me was those that came in and were rude to the subs because of the way they chose to play that was wrong in my eyes and I did let them know about it… even one apologised in public for their narrow minded ways
10. 

    Acid_Zebra
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    wow.

    let me reiterate:
    wow.

    Not being a sims online player, I cannot begin to tell you how weird this all sounds.
    Being (in my own opinion) a reasonable, rational (hah) male 30 years of age I have to wonder;
    are you all a bunch of loony freaks, or is my moral compass hopelessly outdated? Am I a dinosaur?

    BDSM in online games?
    Gor (as in Gor the pulpy SF stuff right)?
    Shadow governments?
    People speaking of themselves in the 3rd person?
    Random accusations of people being cultists?
    (what, you suspect they will all commit mass avatar suicide or something? virtual Waco?)

    and what the ^#@# is ‘to glove somebody’?

    and what’s with the U/us W/we thing?

    To each his own is my creed, but I still ended up feeling uncomfortable after reading this entire thread.

    (15 mins later)
    I went out for a bit to mull this over.
    a) I need to have a look at this Sims Online.
    b) Most of my being uncomfortable stems from totally not understanding this whole dom/sub thing. It is simply not in me. I have a reasonable amount of control over myself (and that took a long time), I don’t want the burden of control/responsibility over another.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am not for it or against it, it is simply very foreign to me.

    But do explain that glove thing, sounds kinky *grin*

    Be well ppl.
11. 

    brigit
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Acid……when Y/you play sims online there is an interaction that has Y/your character throwning down a GLOVE and in doing that Y/you make the person targeted an enemy……thus the red balloon Y/you may have read about….

    and the Y/you thing…..the capital Y …..is a respect thing….in our Role Playing….Y/you the capital is directed towards any Dom or Domme reading and the small y is directed at all subs or slaves….it is mearly another facet of RP to us whom embrace the BDSM world…..another way to show respect to our Masters/Mistresses

    Sir Catseye i agree Sir that many times while at home there were many people that would come by to just cause trouble…..to call someone a name or try to taunt…..yet in the end as usual just like _yerbrook they were the ones that were shown to be an A _ _………

    Sir Matthew’s girl…………brigit
12. 

    toy
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    toy wishes also to thank You Uri for that thread above……..

    toy read it all and found all very open minded answers and saw no overwhelming disgust or abhorance to what others believe and are….

    for the most part the replies to that thread were, ‘live and let live’ which is really all we ask

    toy would have replied to it but its locked and as usual toy is banned at stratics once again hehehe

    falara kajira toy
13. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    I am not responding to Dyer, just trying to clear up something else for everyone else, just another thing that he has said that is untrue. He keeps pointing to this Stratics thread as proof and support for himself, claiming it demonstrates that he is not alone and that there are many others who feel as he does. I took a look at the thread and did a little scoring.

    I rated each of the 17 posters as feels BDSM is wrong in the game, neutral, and feels people should be able to play as they wish in the game. Here are the result.

    Those who feel that BDSM is wrong in the game: 2. I will, unlike Dyer, name names: paupsers and Harvey.

    Neutral 3: Beatty, Katheryne, and DefLeppChik.

    Feel people should be able to play as they wish to in the game 12: KithKanathalasan, Charme, HoneyBuns, Smoorefu, Allison Chains, Lieonel, Camber@Alpha, YoungUn, Amparo, Poet, Acqlenn123, and CreekGirl.

    So, 12 out of the 17 posters in that thread that Dyer claims as supporting his view and his cause actually expressed that they felt that people should be able to play as they choose in the game.

    Dyer has in his lying about tagging people, alter sims, and now regarding this thread totally discredited himself.

    Silly and stupid little man.
14. 

    Paper Lane
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Happy New Year!
    I hope you guys had a great holiday season, and I’m looking forward to finding out the dev’s happy news…
15. 

    Mistress Maria LaVeaux
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Good Morning Acid.

    It is a genuine pleasure to read your post. A truely reasonable reaction from someone who doesn’t understand our lifestyle, and is fairly sure it isn’t for him/her.
    I wish others could learn by your example chere.

    Allow me to hopefully set some of your discomfort to rest. No,, what we do isn’t for everyone, and we don’t really wish to see it become so. My toy feels a need deep within herself to serve in a very personal way, as i feel a need to nurture and guide.(Speaking for myself this is really what is at the heart of Dominance for me.) I know, the sexual aspects of what we do, and the aspects of physical control and discipline Make people uncomfortable, but as most of it takes place in the privacy of our own bedrooms,(Or Dungeons ~Wink~), there is no real need for you to even concern yourself with it.
    (Another personal note, I do not now, nor have i ever engaged in open sexuallly explicite scenes with anyone in a Vanilla lot. have my own sense of decency that will just not allow such behavior for myself or those i care for.)

    I am glad your reaction to the various things you have listed
    (“BDSM in online games?
    Gor (as in Gor the pulpy SF stuff right)?
    Shadow governments?
    People speaking of themselves in the 3rd person?
    Random accusations of people being cultists?”)
    Was to say you had to check TSO out.
    You are uncomfortable through lack of knowledge and/or exposure, and you wish to See for yourself,, Learn more, form your own Informed opinions rather than submit to a reflexive negative reaction.
    That is a sign of an open and progressive mind. You can come to me, or any in our community, to learn about us, we will answer willingly. You may leave us Still with the idea it is Wrong for you, and that is fine. At Least you will walk away with a Fuller understanding. either way, I do detect from your post, a willingness to just let us be, even if you do not agree with what we do. for that chere, from me, and my community,, Thank you.

    It was your John Addams i beleive who was quoted as saying, “I may not agree with what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it”
    Thank you Acid, and i look forward to meeting you in game.

    I want to address one thing else,
    twice it has been inferred that the books of John Norman, The Gor Series, are just cheezey pulp novels. to this i have to answer,,
    Yes,, they are.
    I have personal knowledge that Mr. Norman was given a special award from a Vancouver based sci-fi litterary committe for the Greatest disservice to the genre of Science fiction on the Grounds that he “Plagerizes himself”. I have no illusions that these books will find a place in academic circles along side the works of byron, or shakespear, A bust of norman will never reside between Socratese and DesCarte.

    But what does any of that matter? Whether a Book is a great work of literature, or a cheap dime store paperback, it puts out the Ideas of an author, it exposes us to yet another point of view, Well written or not.
    Books are a wonderful thing. All Books.
    We in the Gor community have taken something from these books that we find to be a positive influence in our lives. For myself, i can say i have gained similar positive influences from Hundreds of other books besides.

    Read. Knowledge is truely power.
    And don’t get caught up in any sort of academic snobbery, How can you really know if a book has value for you unless you read it?

    Thank you.
    Maria.
16. 

    Cocoanut
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Well, I hope the discussion is not over, because I want to put in my two cents. Or 222 cents. I’ll make it easy for you by listing my comments by number:

    1. Dyerbrook is not a 60-year-old woman.

    2. I like Dyerbrook very much.

    3. I found Dyerbrook on my own in the game, quite some time ago.

    4. I also found some BDSM people on my own in the game, quite some time ago.

    5. I have noticed that the BDSM community is quite large now compared to when I first noticed a few of them, which was probably around February.

    6. When I first met Dyerbrook, he was not concerned about the BDSM community, and it was not nearly as large as it is now.

    7. I have always disagreed with Dyerbrook as concerns the BDSM community. I have listened to his concerns, and followed his reasoning, and I have still disagreed with it. This has not affected our friendship. In fact, I think that we can discuss it and even joke about our differences is a sign of a good friendship. I respect his views, and his mind, and he respects mine. I very much enjoy having Dyerbrook as a friend, whether or not I agree with all his philosophies.

    8. I have no idea whether Dyerbrook has ever gloved anyone or not. I have never seen him do so.

    9. I do know that BDSM people follow him around to harrass him. I have seen that. It has become difficult to visit with him on any lot due to the numbers of BDSM people who drop in to give him an enemy balloon or to annoy him in some other way. Of 5 people who may drop in on a given lot, four of them will be BDSM people looking for a little of this sort of action.

    10. Both before and after the Dyerbrook/BDSM conflict arose, I have been to BDSM lots, both just to make new friends (without realizing that it is a BDSM lot), and specifically to satisfy my curiosity about BDSM. In other words, I have considered myself friendly with BDSM people, apart from my curiosity about it, and regardless of whether specific people are BDSM or not. I see them as people, rather than as a lifestyle.

    11. Recently, I went to the 41-point lot because it piqued my curiosity, but this time, also specifically because I knew of Dyer’s concerns and wanted to find out more for myself. (Lord Cougar is a GIRL???!?!?!??) The lot description said that curiosity was ok, so I took advantage of that to satisfy my curiosity and hear about the BDSM philosophy, the 41-point plan, and other concerns.

    12. While I was there, I also observed the lifestyle and decided I myself could not personally stand it, either as a Dom or a Sub. It bothered me on many levels, and also seemed quite stiff and boring to me. (Now a little bondage and dominance type stuff in sex play, I could go for, but generally in a turn-around-is-fair-play mode, and definitely not as a pervasive sort of master/sub lifestyle.) I will add, though, that even finding OUT about the lifestyle is somewhat difficult, since one is always walking on eggshells not to break some arcane rule, such as asking someone something who isn’t allowed to speak, and also some Doms apparently require a sort of artificial super-respect from everyone, whether in the lifestyle or not.

    13. Still, I did fine, and they did fine, and things were explained to me, and I left feeling that I had had a reasonable discussion with reasonable (given their constraints) people, and that we would be friends, albeit friends with not a whole lot in common.

    14. Despite my observations, and discussion with Dyerbrook, I have not been convinced that it is a bad thing, or in any case, any worse than the other sexual things that go on in the Sims or elsewhere. (And, as you might have guessed, I have seen quite a bit because I am curious about everything and pretty tolerant of just about everything.)

    15. I have desired and still desire to be friends with people, regardless of whether they are BDSM or not, or whether or not they are against BDSM. In other words, I remain more interested in learning and in friendship, and will remain so until such time as I may be convinced that the BDSM community is actually harmful, if indeed, I ever am, which looks doubtful. I have also desired and still desire for BDSM people to consider me as a friend.

    16. It does worry me, though, that there are some in the BDSM community who are willing not only to harrass Dyerbrook, but go so far as to search out additional people through friendship webs and put them automatically on ban and ignore. Other friends of mine have had that happen to them. I even had to check my web real quick to see if I would automatically be an “enemy”. If so, that would be so very unfair. The example of me should be enough to convince you of that. I would like to think that I would be welcome in BDSM lots just as I have been in the past, regardless of my friendship with Dyerbrook or anyone else.

    17. Dyerbrook has no problem with my being friends with BDSM people. But if BDSM people have problems with me being friends with Dyerbrook, and I am forced to choose, I will choose Dyerbrook.

    18. To the guy above who has not played the game and ran across all this, I would like to say that MOST of the game has little to do with all this, or with gloving, or any other possibly negative aspect. Most of the game is quite innoculous and relatively wholesome fun.

    coco
17. 

    Cocoanut
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    skip that “L” in innocuous.
18. 

    Linderella
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    It is sad to see _yerbrook so overcome with paranoia. I ran into him on a lot, where I went to make gnomes and visit with my friends Oviagras and ‘Hotlanta. When I landed, I was greeted with the following conversation:
    Dyerbrook: “They are coming here to stalk me. If you want to have them in the name of lifestyle tolerance, you will see how your freedom disappears.” (To me, that almost sounds like a threat.)
    ‘Hotlanta: “so you hide here? LOL”
    Linderella: “hello Ovi, how are you?”
    Dyerbrook: “Read http://www.alphavilleherald.com to find out more about this.”
    Linderella: “Hotlanta, long time no see.”
    ‘Hotlanta: “Hello linderella”
    Dyerbrook: “Cults!”
    Dyerbrook has left the property.

    Dyerbrook is making up this stalking and threatening stuff to try to wean people to his side. I have the screenshot of my visit. I never even addressed him. Why would I? I wouldn’t waste my time. I have too many friends in game to worry about a little flea like him.
19. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Correction Cocoanut.. Lord Cougar is definitely male. I have spoken to him in voice chat in yahoo, and he has a lovely, male, bass voice.

    To clarify, Dyer sent two people in to check out the lot. I was checking webs looking for people connected to him or to Evangeline and his friends to prevent harassment and tagging of my friends and I. You must remember that Dyer came into my home uninvited as Lord Cheetah to glove me. These two people objected to the boot and ban, and I told them to talk to me again in a couple of weeks and I would readmit them after the dust settled from all this silliness. The one told me that Dyer had gone over the edge and that they were no longer on speaking terms with him. Then, lo and behold, I see reference to my boot and ban made by Dyer, so these two friends of his were obviously lying, obviously still very much on speaking terms with him. You know who you are, and you need not bother to ask me to lift the ban, because you lied to me and I will not.

    I feel uncomfortable with friends of Dyer’s who may be on my lot, feeling that they are there to spy, to gather information to use against us here and elsewhere. With friends of his around to report back to him, I would feel every word said, no matter how guarded, would be misinterpreted and twisted.

    So, I choose not to have friends of Dyer in my home, and it is my right to make that choice. Besides, from what Dyer has said, I can’t help but feel they would be happier in their own communities and not in ours.
20. 

    Cocoanut
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    “You must remember that Dyer came into my home uninvited as Lord Cheetah to glove me.”

    No, you need to understand that I have not been involved in this or any of the ins and outs or chronology of any of the drama of any of it, so I don’t remember this, didn’t know about this, and never saw any such incident.

    But I have seen the harrassment of Dyerbrook. And since that is what I have witnessed myself, I think it is encumbant upon me to point that out on this message board, where people are being led to believe nobody ever did that to him. They are doing it to him. They are doing it to him every time I see him! By “they” I mean people with BDSM in their profiles or their lot profiles. And they should realize they are not just doing it to him, they are making things unpleasant for everyone else who is around, too, including those, like me, who may not share his views on this subject.

    Your policy of not allowing Dyerbrook’s friends onto your lots would, then, I have to conclude, mean that if I want to be friends with him, I had better forget about you. I have never been at any BDSM lot to perform any sort of “spying” for him or anyone, in my visits to any BDSM lot in any city, either before, or after, I met Dyerbrook.

    Actually, after I visited Lord Cougar and his 41-point lot (by that point I knew Dyerbrook was unhappy about the presence of BDSM lots on the game), what I reported back to Dyerbrook – in a discussion between adults, not as a spy! – was that I didn’t see any signs at all of any kind of allowing of any minors on the lot; in fact, quite the contrary. At the same time, Cougar took time to answer all my questions, and I feel we had an enjoyable conversation, and the others on the lot were very pleasant to me also. (Maybe you could ask him; he would probably remember the conversation.)

    So I would hope he wouldn’t take such a narrow view as to exclude me or anyone else from his lot on the basis of my or their being friends with Dyerbrook, but rather only on the basis of our behavior toward him, just as you would judge anyone else. Banning people on the basis of who they are friends with is more along the lines of paranoia, and less along the lines of free speech and free enquiry and free FRIENDSHIP I would like to see from anyone.

    Yes, for the most part, I am happier not doing BDSM activities than I would be doing them; just as I personally prefer a heterosexual relationship and not a homosexual one. But this notion of happier in “my” community versus “your” community – I was under the impression we lived in the SAME community! I know there are different “communities” within it – of all kinds, including age, race, special interests, or sexual orientation – but I just never thought of them as being very exclusionary or as an “either-or” proposition. I tend to flow rather freely through all of them, enjoying all of them.

    Of course it is your right not to have friends of Dyerbrook on your lot. But I feel this is a mistake on your part, preventing you from getting to know me or other people. In fact, there’s something kind of wrong here – “Any friend of my enemy is my enemy, too?” Or something like that. Without even getting to know me, first. In short, you are judging me because of what a friend of mine thinks. I mean, although I can understand the practicality of your point of view (protecting yourself from further distress), I don’t think it is worth holing up for, or passing judgement in advance on other people based on their friendship webs.

    I was afraid that this business all meant I would have to choose between Dyerbrook and you, but I really couldn’t believe it would come to that. That is just so, I’m sorry to say, narrow-minded! That is not what this game is supposed to be about at all. To me it’s all kind of like, oh, you’re friends with HIM? Well then, I hate you, too. And if you have power in your community, I imagine you also have the power to make sure a lot of those who are in it (particularly your subs) snub me as well. Your loss.

    In short, I am not happy with your answer, and this all irritates me a great deal. It disturbed me quite a bit the other night to realize I had unknowningly gained enemies simply by being Dyberbrook’s friend. But his friend I will remain, unless I myself decide not to be.

    But of course it is your right to ban me sight unseen, so don’t forget to put me, the dangerous Cocoanut, on your ban and ignore list. It’s your right to spread the word about that, too, if you like. Okie dokie.

    But I really don’t think you necessarily speak for all the other BDSM people. For the future, I will make it a point to avoid your lot (once I figure out which one it is), if that makes you happy, but I don’t plan on avoiding everyone ELSE in the world who happens to be into BDSM until I find out first-hand that I am banned by them as well for being friends with Dyerbrook.

    In any case, you and everyone else are always welcome to visit at any of my lots, as always.

    coco
21. 

    Mistress Maria LaVeaux
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Cocoanut,

    Good evening chere.
    For my part chere, I want no part in an “Us against them” battle either. My cheif arguement with dyer seems to be that he has already closed his mind towards us. I, if you read the other postings only lost patience with him after my invitations to him were twisted by him into ann attempt to “Reel him in”. I meant no such thing.
    My home is called Dark Virtues, and if you choose to visit me, I would welcome you, as i would have Dyer had he come with the idea of opening his mind a little.

    You sound a reasonable person, and i am not in the habit of condemning people through association.
    My invitation stands chere. Enter and be welcome.

    Maria.
22. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 5th, 2004
    

    Cocoanut, you remind me of those good and earnest Quakers in the 1930s who used to go over and try to talk peace to the Soviets, even as their brethrens stared up with eyeless sockets from mass graves far out of sight…

    If you need to cut a balloon or cut me off your bookmarks or announce that you’ve decided to “dis” me so that you can continue your curious explorations, by all means, do so, you’re a free woman, and I would only respect you for knowing your own mind and following it, which is more than I can say for these Gorean slaves.

    I had forgotten that Oviagras was friendly to the rose-and-thorn gang — I remember he used to have kind of a nasty profile and I remember someone on his lot, a female roomie, once said to a friend of mine that she would pay per skill point and then didn’t produce after the points were made, but ah, well, what can you do, it’s the Sims. And OF COURSE you all were stalking and if you happened to be friends with Oviagras, what of it? Because we’ve had the patterns tested. Other Sims unrelated to me have gone to all these same skill lots and you never show up, ever, for days. It’s only when I visit them that you descend en masse. I am SO GLAD that Cocoanut is such a friend, and a truth-teller, that she has stepped up to the plate to proclaim that, because it helps to unmask you, and it helps to make the point that you are all a cult, and if not a cult, a malicious sub-culture bent on the destruction of society. So keep it coming…

    As for these people “spying” for me, you have got to be kidding. Would I be so stupid to send as “spies” people who are in my balloons? Come off it. These people were curious themselves, and *didn’t believe me*. They thought I was off my nut for going on about this cult stuff. They went over as free people, to see for themselves, freely. You’ve all been masters and slaves for so long, and you’re in such a fog, that you no longer can recognize freedom, and you think the entire world behaves as you do, like master and slave. Pity.

    Nothing you’ve said has convinced me otherwise. You’re a menace, and now you’ve been exposed as one so it’s not just my ravings. *This is how you are*. Now, is there something somehow illegal about landing uninvited on someone’s lot and gloving them? Of course not. It’s been done to you, to make a point, and you are dishing it out to whom you think is guilty of gloving you, and it’s the usual round of mountainous vengeance. No matter. You’ll get tired of it in time and go back to your lairs. But know that every time you go out a’hunting to glove me, you turn off every lot leader and visitor in Alphaville with your viciousness, and they can see you for what you are.
23. 

    Raieyana/ra'naa
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    OK, personally I am sick of the ranting…. I have a few points that I would like to bring up.

    First and formost, Dyer makes us all out to be Mind controlling Tops and mindless bottoms. This is NOT the case. Real life or sim life…this is considered role play. We ALL have our own minds and own thoughts and readily offer our opinions. (Have you ever seen toy in action? or brigit? or even me for that matter…)If I told my sub the sky was purple, I would expect him to reply “yes, and what a beautiful shade of purple it is.” but we both know fully well the darn sky is not purple. Everyone did this sort of thing as a child….pretending and playing a part, AND any couple whos been married a while has tried to spice it up in real life by playing “teacher/student, Doctor/patient” role, etc. That’s it….we have brought our own personal interests into the game…why condemn us, when others have “strip clubs” and “brothels” where they openly cyber? I think BDSM lots are much calmer then those type of places—only one womans opinion though.
    My next point would be that the community has grown in the past months since I arrived. Some folks are legit members, MOST are not. Have you ever made a character for the sole purpose of exploration…then forgot about it! All I am saying is, that some of these people claiming to be part of BDSM are not and therefore give the rest of us a bad name. We pride ourselves on respect and where is the self respect in open cybering for anyone and everyone to see. When I “scene” I do so in IM or I lock my house to do it in room. I think I speak for others when I say, any self respecting player would take the same care in preventing others from seeing things they should not.

    And for my last point…Two months ago, I had a character in Fancy Fields. I wanted to delete her so I transfered my house and all my belongings to my husbands account and asked him to sell the house for me. He did so, he sold it to a woman who then in turn gave it to a couple as a gift. They all went over to the lot, he gave them a tour, including the dungeon. This couple went on and on about how much time they would be spending in the dungeon and how they were going to leave the house as it was BECAUSE it had a dungeon. They proclaimed themselves to be a closet D/s couple. (as did the woman who bought it for them. She was Mistress a short time to a well known Dom from AV and BF.) This couple was none other than DYERBROOK and another sim who I will not name (as to not embarass her).
    All my husband and my word against his, BUT the 4 of them had a conversation about the AV BDSM scene…he admitted his beef with a few members there and his girlfriend even admitted to being in the scene at one point in time and knew all of us. She was his Domme….our dear Dyerbrook was her sub….
    OH how I wish TSO had archives….
24. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    I have never in my life had a Sim in Fancey Fields. Again, that is easily established by calling up Maxis and asking them to confirm or deny this. That’s just plain silly. It’s just more slander. I have never been a closet D/S couple with any other Sim or for that matter, even any couple of any type with any other Sim such as to buy a house, let alone put a dungeon in it. Oh, how I wish YOU had a screenshot of such a preposterous thing, because it is all untrue. I know it’s hard to believe that someone can mount a critique against your lifestyle without having some personal beef. I have no experience with BDSM in the Sims or RL and don’t plan to have any. It’s a philosophical dispute, not some grudge. And your comments about role-playing don’t add up — many BDSMers announce that they are BDSM in RL and belong to RL scenes that are real, not role-playing, involving actual violence, not pretend violence. That’s my main problem with it.
25. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    P.S. Of course there is nothing to stop anyone from going into Fancey Fields and making a Sim called “Dyerbrook” — this is done all the time. It would be interesting for someone in FF to do a search and see if there is actually such a Sim. Since my dispute with BDSM became public only in recent weeks, I can’t imagine how any Sim with any age of less than 3 weeks would have any credibility. I really find it hard to believe such a unique name as this, known in the Sims community long before TSO, could have been used in FF just “by accident”. Let you or your husband come forward with this other Sim’s name, and let’s examine the facts here. I assure you I have no Sim in FF and never had one.
26. 

    Mistress Maria LaVeaux
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Good Morning Cocoanut

    I looked over dyers response to you. I am sorry that your choice not to condemn us out of hand has caused Dyer to appearantly “cast you out”. He now, obviously sees you as part of the “greater problem” now and as such, even tolerating us makes you as “bad” as us in his eyes. We on the other hand are not quite so “Cultish” in our outlook. (I am sorry, I just couldn’t resist that one chere. Lol)
    For me, A friend is a Friend even if we disagree. You and i may never see eye to eye on my lifestyle chere, But i would still Value talking to you. After all, If one is so insecure in their choices, that they Cannot even tolerate the presence of a dissenting opinion, they shoud Really Re-evaluate their position.

    Be well.
    Miastress Maria.
27. 

    Catseye
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    n 1: an act of aggression (as one against a person who resists); “he may accomplish by craft in the long run what he cannot do by force and violence in the short one” [syn: force] 2: the property of being wild or turbulent; “the storm’s violence” [syn: ferocity, fierceness, furiousness, fury, vehemence, wildness] 3: a turbulent state resulting in injuries and destruction etc.

    Above are definitions of violence note the word resists…

    consenual again shows no resistance..

    Yes I pratice BDSM in real life I spank my wife in the bedroom I use scarves to secure her to the bed as well when she wishes me to I try to fulfill a need she requires and asks of me..

    of course in some southern states the schools still give swats as punishment to students and do not even have to inform the parents of such actions until they are completed…

    Dyerbrook you have this image of what is BDSM yet you admit you have never took part in the lifestyle so how can you say you know what it is? same as this you know what cold is but can you tell me how -40 feels? or even -60? trust me until you experience it you do not know..

    yes it is not for everyone and many stop after the first time real for they find it to be not them… trust …. trust is the foundation of such a relationship the trust that the Top will not step over the line.. but then trust is a foundation of a non BDSM relationship as well trust that your partner will remain true and faithful…
28. 

    Lola
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    there are a LOT of replies here and honestly I haven’t read them all to see if anyone has brought this up, but. . ..
    in both of the interviews I’ve read on this site where the gors being ‘a cult’ was brought up, I always took that to mean in the sense that this book (or books) they get their source material from has a ‘cult status’ or a ‘cult following’ , like The Rocky Horror Picture Show or any number of ‘niche’ things. I don’t think the original comments were meant to mean ‘cult’ in the mind control-purple robes-compound in Texas sense. That’s my interpretation at least.
    I’ve been to a few BSDM houses and a GORhouse or two in alphaville, although I am strictly vanilla and only visited properties advertising things like ‘Dom/s but all are welcome’. I found the Gor house a little strange but I think someone watching my friends and I have a Monty Python party might think we’re pretty strange too. ^.^ The BSDM houses honestly are not so different from other romance properties, sometimes it is really hard to tell the difference.
    As for BSDM infiltration of Alphaville or past discussions of ‘giving them their own area to keep to themselves’, once you start doing that, is there going to be a seperate area for gay properties, then split things up in to places like Whiteyville ? I think that’s all a little bit silly. Read the Property description before you enter it, I think i am accurate in saying most all of the BSDM houses post their affilitation right there, so if you see that, just don’t go on the property. As for harrassment and entering other people’s properties, it works both ways. People should be respectful of other guests because one ‘jerk’ just makes the whole house get riled, and most of all, people should be respectful of their hosts, because you’re in their house.
    In such a small area (compared to the Real World here), there’s got to be a certain amount of Live and Let Live, because everyone in Alphaville is there for the same reason: to have a good time and get Away from the stress, and bigotry, and strife of Real Life for a little while.
29. 

    Mistress Maria LaVeaux
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Another differing, yet Balanced view point.
    Thank You Lola.

    I am more encouraged by this sort of post, it shows the True, and Honest feelings of Vanilla’s in AV who are not interested in being part of our lifestyle. I have met many like Lola. I am friends with several who will never Hold, or Wear a leash, But Friendship IS possible, because they Know we are not the Monsters that some would paint us to be. We Joke, and tease each other. But we Respect each other, and Respect is the Key to coexistance.

    Thank you again Lola.
    The Doors of Dark Virtues are open to you, Drop in some weekend when my toy will Dance for us, It is quite an enjoyable show.

    Mistress Maria LaVeaux.
30. 

    Billy Bob Thornton
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    aye Lola…Most homes are the same…I have been to some vanilla lots that make My head look twice..LOL…as far as the Goreans…sorry We are not a cult…and in _yerbrooks last posts on the previous threads…he was in fact calling us a mindless cult ~shrugs~ as far as stalking…well..kinda hard to stalk someone that has you on ignore…lol and as was stated before in the previous post…segragation is in fact ~Illegal~ in the good ole US, ,Makes Me wonder where _yer is from…and before he spouts it off…I was a soldier in the US Army…so everytime he spouts off about military things I cant help but laugh. as I have spent a few years during the cold war on a cold border. so I doubt that he will educate Me on that one

    Be Well E/everyone
31. 

    Mistress Sly
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Greetings all,

    I have been waiting for the flaming to die down before I commented on this article. Let me give you all some background on me, I have been part of Sims online since beta testing I started the end of July 2002. I have seen many BDSM lots over all the cities since that time. I do understand why most know see neighborhoods of BDSM lots because most who are interest in the community want to be near like minded people. There was a time were the city to be in if you had any thoughts of BDSM was BF. In real life I have been part of the leather community for 26 years.

    On your point Maria of those in the BDSM community not liking Goreans. I wonder if you mean the real BDSM community or the online community of chat rooms and IRc?

    The reason I ask is because I know in many chat room on yahoo there is problem with people who say they are Gorean and those who say they are D/s. I know of one Mistress for female subs room in yahoo chat that won’t even let those talk about Gor. My feeling on that is that if they just stopped and talked more they would all find that both have much in common. M/s, D/s and Gor are all based on a power exchange.

    In the beginning of Gorean IRc rooms woman could only be free or slave and could not own same sex slaves, so much has progressed. In the real leather community we accept those who have trained in Gorean methods and at many of our events there are workshops on Gorean service and positions taught.

    I have only visited a few house this time around in Alphaville but those I have have always ask those they do not know to read the sign out front about the lot being 18 years old or older and are always willing to answer any question people may have. I have only been part of one group trying to taught basic BDSM and I did get a little worry when he/she who was teaching was only reading material he/she found on the internet this person could not speak from experience only read from some site on the internet. There is so much more to BDSM then what is on the internet, and most that is is very basic. I believe to teach you have to have experience in the art not just knowing how to find info on the internet.

    All in all I think this article is very well done, and that Maria and toy have spoken from there experience. I believe that any community starts from people getting together to share ideas, and that you have a long group of people both in and out of the scene besides maybe a few who are interested in sharing them. I advise that you not over look those who do not understand you completely those can be your best teachers.
32. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Re: “I looked over dyers response to you. I am sorry that your choice not to condemn us out of hand has caused Dyer to appearantly “cast you out”. He now, obviously sees you as part of the “greater problem” now and as such, even tolerating us makes you as “bad” as us in his eyes.”

    Geez, I don’t know where you get THAT interpretation. You must be on drugs. There is no way that what I have written could be so construed. I’ve written a thank-you note to Coco in-game and she knows me well. I’m just joking with her that earnest idea that you all are reasonable and can be talked to reasonably and in a friendly spirit, which as all can see, is not the case. She knows me, and TMOT, she does not feel “cast out” nor is she “cast out” because we are free people, not living in a cult as you are.
33. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Lola, your point would make sense if it was just a matter of reading people’s lot description, and then deciding to enter or not, according to one’s taste and tolerance for such things. But that’s not it at all. This is a “community” bent on taking over, on harassing those who disagree with its philosophy, and in spreading out to all the “vanilla” lots and flaunting its stuff and taunting all those who show dismay, calling them “bigots” and “narrow-minded”. They don’t remain on these lots, they fan out, they recruit. Yes, recruit — how else do their numbers grow? Recruitment means advertising everywhere on profiles and websites and attracting newcomers and subjecting them to rigorous indoctrination. I refer you to the Stratics board, where one Sim even talked about how a dom kept trying to get her to be a sub despite her rejection of her advances — now, gee, that’s not supposed to happen with all that safe, sane, consensual crap, is it?
34. 

    Catseye
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Recruitment means advertising everywhere on profiles and websites and attracting newcomers

    hmm Dyer like this thread? did cocanut get her curosity piqued by reading these posts and come to see for herself?

    and yes YET again you make yourself a hypocrite in your own posts..

    “She knows me, and TMOT, she does not feel “cast out” nor is she “cast out” because we are free people, not living in a cult as you are.”

    So we are not free people? we are not allowed to make our own minds up? we are supposed to follow your shallow thinking and we are a cult if we do not agree with it?

    being free means able to choose the lifestyle we wish to live.. pratice what you preach you have brought us together to defend our way of life and still you are trying to make it black and white in a colorful world.. at least my talks with Phin he shows some intelligence where as you have yet to impress me
35. 

    Raieyana
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    I do not have screen shots of the actual conversation, exchanging of house speaking of BDSM or the dungeon BUT I do have screenshots taken of me speaking to the sim about the property exchange and the persons who moved in. She remembered the who incident and Dyerbrook being one of the parties involved. She even goes onto say how nice he is. If ANYONE wants them I will email them. But I will say that he has since deleted Dyerbrook in FF, whether he did it today or a month ago, I dont know but I have the proof that he was in FF and did become a roomie at a house that was bought from my husband.
36. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    Please do e-mail them to me at the e-mail shown here. Surely you have the name wrong. Or someone has done this as a prank. I assure you that I have never had a Sim in FF. And I will be sure to file a complaint about it.
37. 

    Dyerbrook
    

    Jan 6th, 2004
    

    OK, I just made a Sim in Fancey Fields to test the system. If it was true that there was a Sim there named “Dyerbrook,” the system wouldn’t have let me make such a Sim with that exact name, I’d have to make it “Dyerbrook-” or “XXDyerbrookXX” or something like that. Maxis purged the server some weeks ago, so that any Sim at least a month old, even if deleted, would still be on the server and would prevent me from making this name. So your claim is patently fraudulent. Now that I do have a 0-day Sim there, please give me the names of anyone in FF who claims to know this faux-Dyerbrook and I will interview them and hear what they have to say. You think you can just publish any untruth you feel like in this tabloid, but the truth will out.
38. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    Mistress Sly, the BDSM 101 you were given on my lot was written by me. You might also hear it at my friend Lord Cougar’s lot with some of his own personal additions, because I sent it to him. I wrote it because of all the questions I was continuously receiving at my home. I sat down and thought carefully about how I could best answer the questions I was receiving and wrote BDSM 101 to be consistent in the basic information I was giving out.

    The only website you will see BDSM 101 on as given at the Rose is my own, because it is mine.

    Some of the sub and Dom lectures are taken directly from http://www.castlerealm.com, simply because they are excellent and well expressed, and I could not improve on them. Their source is acknowledged. Others I have written myself.

    Have a look at our learning centre at http://www.bankhead.net/BlackRoseCastle. In the list of lectures there you will see full credit given to the authors of each article, and you can see for yourself which I have written myself.

    To be honest hon, with your background and years of experience, I think you would benefit more by asking questions and asking for the opinions of others present in the house rather than seeking a teacher as such. And of course all of us would love the opportunity to jump into such a group discussion. As you can see here, and as I see in my house, we do love a good discussion. *Smile*
39. 

    Mistress Sly
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    Lady Juliana,

    Just FYI, it was not your lot I was on when this happened. Also FYI, yes I go around check out what is being taught on the internet. So I will from time to time drop into chat rooms or lots on the Sims Online that advertise lectures or workshops. I am not looking for a teacher, I have many wonderful real life mentors.

    If the BDSM 101 lecture is yours and was read completely it is lacking.

    1.Safety, Is the person you are getting involved with who they say they are? Defining the relationship is it role play or training you can take into real life? How to make sure what you are doing is BDSM and not abuse, yes you can be abused online. Who do you trust? when you can’t talk to your real loveones about this where do you go?

    2.There is more to BDSM 101 then just D/s. The person only defined Master and Submissive. If you are going to define roles then define all of them
    Master/Mistress, Top/Bottom, Submissive/Slave, Basic Gorean relationships.

    3.The differents between online and real life.

    I believe that a lecturer should prepare there own lectures and not read from someones elses. I believe that they should be prepared to answer many different questions and then refer the person to reference material online but not say hold on I have to find that answer online. I believe that this lecture was way too short and the person presenting it could not answer very basic questions. I was very shocked when the lecturer said this concludes our lecture on BDSM 101 after about 10 real time minutes.

    On a side note Julianna, please do not call me “hon” I wouldn’t call anyone anyone “hon” and wish not to be. Thanks in advance.
40. 

    toy
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    toy would point out if every aspect of D/s, M/s, Gor/BDSM was covered in a short introduction to BDSM no opne would stay to listen to it all simply because it would take hours to cover everything involved….. The short summation that Mistress Julianna gives in her BDSM covers the basics and in doing so if one is interested She is always willing to explain further, as are most people in the community….. toy does believe it is a very good essay that does cover the basics and has used it herself from time to time

    falara kajira toy
41. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    Thank you toy, you are quite correct. The purpose of BDSM 101 is just to provide the bare bones. There is no way that I could teach someone all there is to know about BDSM in one lecture. Often after hearing that, the person decides this is not for them. Those who are interested do go on to learn more. Yes, it is good for them to ask questions and I encourage them to, and I am not the only person they should listen to. I do not provide formal training. BDSM 101 is meant to answer the basic question “What is it?”

    And there is nothing wrong with pointing them to Castlerealm.com for a start. There is good information there. Of course they need more sources than that, and if they want to learn they will find them. One must do their research and not be lazy in addition to asking questions of those in the lifestyle.

    Rather than attack what I do, why don’t you create an all encompassing educational program then? Let us see you do better.

    I am miffed at such an attack. It was undeserved. I received you into my home graciously. I don’t want to hear any further criticism from you on what I do until you show me something that you have made that is better.
42. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    Yes friends, my patience grows thin.
43. 

    Mistress Sly
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    Well I am surprised that you have attacked me. No where in any of my posts here have I said that the material I heard was yours. Please look above again and reread my posts with an open mind. You have only assumed it and therefore taken it personal. I have not said anyone’s names or pointed any fingers at you or any other individual. You are the one who that has claimed ownership without even knowing of which house I entered and received the information. I cannot help you to access the original author’s name for I the person who read it did not tell me from where their sources came from.

    If you or any other Sim player needs proof that I know what I am saying in regards to BDSM, just Google my name, Mistress Sly. You will see many events I have presented at, including those internationally. Also, if you wish to delve further into my background, you can find my profile on yahoo by searching for mistress_sly.

    I am presenting in Boston this weekend at Boston Fetish Fleamarket, two courses Corsetry and D/s 101, and if need be, will continue to post further workshops I am teaching throughout the country once I have the schedules solidified.

    Anyone that has any questions regarding BDSM or any of its components may contact me by leaving a message via a Sim phone.
44. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    This is good Mistress Sly that you are so experienced and knowledgeable. You are potentially a great resource to our community, and I hope that you will consider holding some events such as you mention in game. It would be enriching for us all.

    I am not sure if it was my BDSM 101 you heard or not, but it probably was. I would like to point out that I do discuss in that lecture limits, safewords, the “safe, sane and consentual” credo, and the potential for both physical and psychological harm, and I caution new subs not to throw themselves at the feet of the first Dom/me they encounter. I also outline that to be Dom/me involves responsibility.

    Okay, so we bumped up against each other and we got our backs up. This can happen at times between two Dom/mes. I look forward to better times, and I truly hope you do host some workshops in game. We all continue to learn always.
45. 

    shi
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    ~curtsies to All~

    Ms Coco ~smiles ~ one word..’slick’..Your post was pretty and all but….one comment you made..was quite ugly… and smacked of malicious intent…” (Lord Cougar…a girl?!?!?!) ~rolling her eyes~ an interesting post simply…gone bad. okie dokie..~winx~

    ~ignores the babble of the one, dyerbrook that refuses to accept what He will never change..~laffin devilishly~

    One can not change what is in one’s ~heart~

    This girl has never met Mistress Sly in all her days on tso and would love and be honoured.. perhaps..the opportunity. ~her smile widening~

    “Safety, Is the person you are getting involved with who they say they are? Defining the relationship is it role play or training you can take into real life? How to make sure what you are doing is BDSM and not abuse, yes you can be abused online. Who do you trust? when you can’t talk to your real loveones about this where do you go?”

    This girl /must/ say..she, also believes there (and speaking of her experiences) are “huge” differences between real life “TPE relations” BDSM from the ones conducted “online”. Either/or..is based on very “basic, but profound” foundations..one being..trust. IRL..Submissives do not go through Dominant after Dominant and vice-versa. A Male Dominant isn’t putting on His lipstick to be Mistress ‘so and so’ the next day(unless ofcourse its a kink of His or hers ~blinks, smiling coyishly~…and yes, online abuse ~exists~.. this girl is living proof of “online abuse” and this girl will answer any questions asked of her… concerning /only/ experiences she has endured and experienced “herself”. This girl also knows of many that have been “online abused” in the vanilla world (being men threatening the lives of women, children..looking to possibly kidnap, rape, kill an innocent child or a Dominant taking advantage of one’s complete submission..~whispering~ IN GAME)..point being..Violence is Everywhere. Girl is sure aol tried to keep the “internet bible belt” pleased as well. ~smirkin~ As this girl keeps repeating….

    ~poking with her fingertip, as a mommy would her small children~..Your fight is /not/ with the BDSM community of Alphaville on “The Sims Online” ..~with an amusing smirk upon her face~

    “There is so much more to BDSM then what is on the internet, and most that is is very basic”

    This girl agrees..but, this girl can and is able to seperate those that have a true heart, ones ~dedicated~ from those who just “play”.

    As far as any seminars, speeches…this girl has never “heard” or participated in any of the discussions as her opinion is ..well..most of the time..” un-welcomed ” by many. ~smiles~ This girl has recommended those “clueless” to the website of castlerealm..for its a more “basic outlining” of a D/s lifestyle and lovely for beginners/newbies/curiosities.

    This girl is very grateful for the targeted, original article written for “attention” on the BDSM community…for now, we have delicious newcomers..and a more insightful look on whom we call or once called …Friends/Mentors..what have you.

    ” ‘Is it wrong for the tree to be a tree, the rock a rock, the bird a bird?’ I asked.
    ‘No, no,’ she said.
    ‘Why, then,’ I asked, ‘is it wrong for a slave to be a slave?’
    ‘I do not know,’ she said.
    ‘Perhaps it is not wrong for a slave to be a slave,’ I said.”

    John Norman, Explorers of Gor, p. 176

    “We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.”
    Sir Winston Churchill

    ~kneels deeply by her Higher Authority’s feet~

    ~whispering the words that so many hate, hiding her devilish little grin~

    Freedom is Slavery
    Pain is Pleasure

    Love Always,
    shi xo
46. 

    shi
    

    Jan 7th, 2004
    

    correction:

    ~pokes dyerbrook and co~ ~laffs~ he’s like mikey and likes it. Mistress Stella said so..~giggling~ ~winx teasingly~

    ~curtsies~

    shi xo
47. 

    Mistress Maria LaVeaux
    

    Jan 8th, 2004
    

    Bonjour Mistress Sly
    and thank you for posting on the subject of our interview.
    I did not state thay Mainstream BD/SM people “Disliked” us, only that we are viewed with a certain Mistrust.
    A greater portion of this is due to our perceived arrogance generated by out natural pride. Another factor is our practice of eschewing use of a safe word. Many worry that we are not sufficiently in control of ourselves, and lack of safe words might lead to abuse of our slaves.(A Valid Concern and A reason why I activly encourage people to use one if they are new to the Gor Lifestyle until such time as sufficient trust and experience has been established.)A frequent concern i have heard is that, Because our Kajira are property, we treat them as less than people, that we are unconcerned with their wellbeing. I refute this every day by just being with my toy in the presence of others, our love for one another is very well known. We are of sterner stuff than many of the mainstream We follow something of a Structure where Dom/mes are free to make whatever rules or styles they choose. Even our Kajira, Known by the nearest English term as slaves are of a more Highly Disciplined, and Prouder cut. (Again, our perceived Arrogance. Lol) This is one reason why, despite my Gorean background, I have always approached the Mainstream with open hands, Wishing to nurture understanding between us. My Friendship with Lady Julianna is a Prime example of the Special friendships that are Possible when we just open ourselves to one another and trust.

    On my Knowledge of other Gorean sites, I freely admit, my exposure to them has been as an observer only. I focus my life in TSO. But i am a constant consumer of their writings. One always needs new and varied opinions to shape ones own outlook. as to my personal experience, I am 29 years old, I have been in the Leather life since i was about 17 My first three years as a sub. Though i had little experience with Goreans,, My way of acting as a Mistress was very much in their style. A style i brought with me to TSO.

    Regarding BD/SM 101. I was present when it was written, and on it’s first presentations. The Intent of it has always been as a relativly simple introduction for people Vanilla’s who have had no exposure to us at all, and should never be represented as “All there is to know”. We all agree that there is much MUCH more to who, and what we are. I think you would also agree that, being something of a journey of self discovery there is much that cannot be covered in any lecture, my experiences with training and nurturing my Precious toy have been a very personal experience, and could never be represented in a lecture as a “How to”. That is because both toy and i are strong individuals and what we do for each other wouldn’t necessarily work for others. Discussion groups, Essays, lectures and training sessions covering the various additions you outlined are all available within our community, I myself have been approached to speak on Gorean Philosiphy at another house. My toy has done a Gor 101 lecture as a cursory overview of who we are. If you don’t find one talk covers everything Ma chere, There are many, others. The Community has helped us in this sharing of knowledge and experience.

    I would also like to say, i Hope My Lady Julianna and you are going to Meet and speak more, I read her posts, and yours, and i can read no intent to attack on either side. (I can pretty much assure you of this Sly, as i know My Lady very well, and she is a very open and loving person.) I know My Lady meant no offence by the term “Hon” she did not intend it to be condescending. We are a close community in AV and such familiarity between Dom/mes is common.Again chere,, No insult is intended.

    Since you are already in AV chere, I look forward to seeing you at my door in the near future. try to come on a Friday, or Saturday night, as it is usually then when my toy Dances, and that is something i enjoy sharing with others. My property is Dark Virtues.

    Enter and be welcome.
    Mistress Maria LaVeaux.
48. 

    Lady Julianna
    

    Jan 8th, 2004
    

    Merci ma belle amie. You certainly perceive the situation correctly, at least from my perspective. You are so wise.

    I do use the word “hon” a lot. It is not meant to be condescending, you are correct. I use it to pull people closer, in a friendly way, a sort of verbal putting my arm around one’s shoulders. There was no sarcasm intended in it. This medium does make communication difficult at times, for we cannot not hear vocal tone nor see facial expression or body language.

    I am also sincere when I say that I hope Mistress Sly will share some of her knowledge with the community. I for one would be sure to attend any in-game workshop or presentation or event she might host.
49. 

    urizenus
    

    Jan 8th, 2004
    

    Hey, this interview has been blogged by Boing Boing, and it was brought to their attention by none other than Bruce Sterling. He does have to avert his eyes however. Awww, he’s just jealous that nove of *his* works ever gave rise to an evil BDSM cult. tee hee. Oh, here’s the link:

    http://boingboing.net/2004_01_01_archive.html#107330453825492570
50. 

    Darksoul
    

    Jan 9th, 2004
    

    Sorta makes Me wonder if Sterling stumbled on this site from a link somewhere or if He’s playing TSO and has a dog in this fight.

    Darksoul

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