W-Hat Goon’s Land for Rent in Baku Sim
by Alphaville Herald on 05/09/08 at 7:00 am
Intlibber Brautigan, Woodbury helping keep W-Hat afloat?
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
rent where Plastic duck got his first ban – and the first mega prim was created
Metaverse urban renewal experts and history fans may want to look up IntLibber Brautigan at the Woodbury University suite at the Tampa Marriot Waterside during the SLCC this weekend – it seems that Mr. Brautigan has secured the rights to rent mall space in both the W-Hat sim retail area and the W-Hat land in Baku sim – both sites where the goons have gained a certain level of notoriety for controversial builds – and possibly other activities.
While controversy may upset some, it also creates traffic as curious onlookers come to gawk and anti-griefers come to abuse report imagery they find objectionable. High traffic creates opportunity, but the burden of with endless tier payments to Linden Lab has resulted in a new direction for Baku – an attempt to cash in on the traffic and offset the Second Life land tier payments.
Masakazu Kojima: “SL is an expensive habit”
Major landowner Masakazu Kojima was quick to point out that Baku is not for sale – it would not do to have this valuable piece of property fall into the “wrong hands” – but rumors have been circulating for some time that associates of Woodbury and Longcat sims have made significant donations to the Masa Foundation in support of the W-Hat land tier payments. Could those payments have been significant enough to result in the actual sale of these historic sites – or is the new land management agreement simply a creative approach to cost cutting by W-Hat?
The text of the BnT press release is below:
***FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE***
W-Hat Hires BNT To Manage Properties
Sept 3rd, 2008
Baku – Standing here on this historic piece of real estate are w-hat leader Masakazu Kojima, BNT CEO IntLibber Brautigan, Zac Wilcke, Orty Wei, and Breakfast Bijou, who reminisced the sands of time.
The reason for this historic meeting was the completion of an agreement between Kojima and Brautigan to have BNT Holdings manage both the Baku property, and the What Mall in ‘what’ region, to benefit W-Hat and the Masa Foundation. Member donations for tier on the sims have been varied at best, in recent months accepting funds from Brautigan, Scout Detritus, even Woodbury University has helped fund the sim, among other non-what residents.
In order to get the properties on a more even financial keel, Masa sought the advice of Brautigan, who recommended BNT help manage the sims. “What members are some of the greatest content creators on the grid,” Brautigan said, “but business expertise is not very common, which is where BNT can help. Baku is a historical district of SL, and has high traffic on a consistent basis, as does ‘what’ region, they are both prime locations for retail facilities and should command excellent rents for merchants seeking to tap that traffic, including many what members who are renowned content creators themselves.”
Masakazu Kojima: “Baku is open to everyone for the first time ever. what is a different story, only cool people are allowed in what. Breakfast why are you in Baku?”
Even furrys, “skill” gamblers, “zero interest” bankers, ad farmers, and legitimate ageplayers will be allowed in Baku. It will be a veritable hotbed of commerce and capitalism.
Rent in the Historical Baku District!!!
An important part of getting the property on its feet is promotion and marketing. As Baku is a crucial location in the development of the metaverse, it seems natural to laud its historical importance….
Masakazu Kojima: OWN A PIECE OF HISTORY
Masakazu Kojima: or rent it
Masakazu Kojima: RENT A PIECE OF E-HISTORY
IntLibber Brautigan: RENT SOME OF MY HISTORICAL E-LAWN
Masakazu Kojima: this was where it all began, sort of!!
Masakazu Kojima: lounge on the lawn where plastic duck got his first ban
IntLibber Brautigan: ah yes, where Gene Replacement made the fabled megaprim
Masakazu Kojima: have a tea party on the site of twin towers
Masakazu Kojima: all 15 of them
Masakazu Kojima: we had one over there
Masakazu Kojima: and over there
Masakazu Kojima: and over there
Masakazu Kojima: and over there
Masakazu Kojima: dave made one with planes that flew into it and people jumping out of windows and stuff
Whats in what?
The What mall in what region is already well established with many what member/content creators renting store space. The new theme for the sim, of a nerf military group, should also attract significant traffic to the mall.
Who is what?
What is a group of content creators, satirists, humorists, and other creative individuals who come to Second Life from the somethingawful.com web forums. They are most widely known for thier involvement in making the Relay For Life as successful as it is, and have made significant contributions to SL in the form of the largest name2key database (needed for many scripted objects in SL), the muginet communications protocol, and their offworld lsl testing/compiling application. While frequently spoken of in a more disparaging manner by certain web-demogogs, what is an important part of SL history and culture. For more information, see http://www.w-hat.com
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Baku/107/166/29/
http://slurl.com/secondlife/what/128/128/0/
Rental queries can be directed to:
Saiasunshine Fackler or Duchess Shepherd
Brautigan & Tuck Holdings
http://bntholdings.com
bntholdings@yahoo.com
Alyx Stoklitsky
Sep 5th, 2008
Good to see Intlibber is moving up the social totem pole.
Sol Cult
Sep 5th, 2008
Still think SL Herald needs more bewbs.
ichabod Antfarm
Sep 5th, 2008
Pixeleen does it for the YAWNZ.
Lord Kamina
Sep 5th, 2008
@Alyx:
It’s not so much he’s moving up the social totem pole, it’s that the social totem pole is slowly moving up him. You know what I mean.
Nikola Shirakawa
Sep 5th, 2008
The use of the word anti-griefer in reference to the moral swarms that descend to ar offensive images is erroneous here. In order to be anti-griefing, there first has to be griefing, and still pictures hosted on private land isolated from the rest of the grid can in no real way be considered griefing. Immoral, and against the ToS maybe, but not really griefing.
Rock Ramona
Sep 5th, 2008
ummm,am i the only one thinking….who really give s a f**k,dont know these people,never been there….and i know some of the most brilliant creators in sl….how come i dont know these people,maybe cuz they are truly insignificant to the rest of us..time to get over yerselves kiddies,we dont care and we dont need you….next
Lulwut
Sep 5th, 2008
Rock, you have virtual girlfriend. Your opinion is void. Just cause you know a few people who’ve made sexual beds with hundreds of different sex animations doesn’t mean you know the most brilliant creators in SL.
Razrcut Brooks
Sep 6th, 2008
@ Rock, even though I think Lulwut’s comment was one of the funniest I have read on here in a long time, I do tend to agree with you. The Herald promotes their friends in these articles. I could care less about business transactions between these avatars.
…..”Rock, you have a virtual girlfriend.” still chuckling over that cold,blunt statement.
Miko Finl
Sep 6th, 2008
R.I.P Baku
Rabid Barkley
Sep 7th, 2008
Can you believe I’m banned from that boxing arena in the sky above part of Baku? Racism!
Reality Bites
Sep 7th, 2008
“In order to be anti-griefing, there first has to be griefing”
I think the problem with the ‘moral swarms’ come to combat griefing, is that they, like so many other people, let the whole ‘guilt by association’ thing spoil their common sense.
Baku is connected to W-hat.
W-hat is connected to SomethingAwful.com goons.
Some of these goons have done some griefing. Plastic Duck is one of the more famous names that spring to mind.
Ergo, via-via, Baku is a griefer’s sim.
It’s the same with Woodbury and their Longcat sim: only their connection lies with 4chan, 7chan and the PN.
I can hear the residents of Woodbury already furiously typing about how WRONG I am and that they have nothing to do with griefing or the PN and how the latter are totally lame and stupid, (you dont have to tell *me*) but that’s just the way most people’s brains work, they make little labelled boxes to put people in, and once something gets stuffed into a box, it doesnt get rid of the label that easily anymore.
So it’s because of some ‘rotten apples’ that whole groups get branded with negative labels. It’s fucked up, yes, but that’s how it works. If you associate yourself with something, you’re going to have to carry the label, wether you like it or not.
That’s why Baku and Woodbury are griefer sims, that’s why furries and Goreans are all sexual deviants and that’s why all computer nerds and Trekkies are still living in their parent’s basements.
Regardless of the truth, we just like to paint with wide brushes. Even tho none of us like to be painted with broad brushes…
(PS to avoid confusement, I am not the same Reality who has the TypePad account, nor is my name here chosen to be an insult toward him/her in any way.)
Nikola Shirakawa
Sep 7th, 2008
Yeah, I get where you’re coming from with that guilt by association thing, but the big anti-griefer groups I’ve talked to tend to want a little more than simple association. The first Woodbury was not AR’d to death because of it’s members, but because they actually had been harboring griefers, which in and of itself is ok, but they were using the land to build and test griefer weapons.. The sim crash log proved that, which is why it got shut down. While there are some anti-griefers that are letting their moral judgment be clouded by personal grudges, they still have that tenuous link and argue on the grounds that the sims are shut down for being testing grounds for grid-destructive weapons and the admin and several members were banned from the grid.
With Baku, Baku is Linden approved for it’s existence, and while they may take good taste out the shed and sodomize it, they aren’t using the grounds to build and test things which are an actual threat to the grid, like sim crashers. It is for this reason that they lack a griefer component enough to get the actual anti-griefers out and against them. Furthermore, they have used their notoriety for some causes that have helped benefit the grid, including the key harvesting scripts so helpful to programs like BanLink. While the morality swarms that think the ToS gives them the right to ignore private property rights, privacy, and freedom of expression might descend to impose their opinion to make the world less immoral, the anti-griefers are simply concerned with keeping the grid stable, which is a big difference.
Nidol Slazar
Sep 7th, 2008
“Furthermore, they have used their notoriety for some causes that have helped benefit the grid, including the key harvesting scripts so helpful to programs like BanLink”
HAHAHAHA! Banlink isn’t helpful at all, only a slight nuisance easily overcome by alt accounts. The key database is useful for some applications though.
Rock Ramona
Sep 8th, 2008
true…i do have a virtual gf,i also fly airplanes upside down,whats yer point?…and yes,i would consider Stroker Serpentine an old friend,along with 50 other talented builders on my friends list…including my virtual gf…and until Peter bans me my point is not void,its right up there,see…still there.My whole point is,why waste space talking about people who have never really mattered to anyone.The only reason i know of them is thru this blog.Now yer thinking,Rock,why do you still read this blog?,why dont you just stop?..well ,because im one of those people commonly known as an infogeek,a person who likes to know everything there is to know about something he loves.I will always be in SL,and I will always read blog.Griefers in sl are not an issue in my sl or the thousands of others that come to sl on a daily basis.Kinda like talking about President Carters gas rationing….now please excuse me,my virtual gf needs nail remover from the store……yer buddy Rock:)
Miko Finl
Sep 8th, 2008
It’s all a lie. We still have our secret underground greifer testing weapons
Reality
Sep 8th, 2008
Nikola, unless the entire sim of Baku – or any sim – is set to group access only, it is NOT ‘private’ at all. Please get a grip.
Freedom of Speech and Expression does not exist within Second Life – it is owned by a private company.
Welcome to the harsh reality that is in front of you. Don’t like it? Leave Second Life, sell your computer and become an anti-government hermit.
Reality
Sep 8th, 2008
Private property means privately owned, not owned by the public. Private property can be open to the public. Use a a dictionary before trying to tell others they need to get a grip. Something tells me you’re one of those idiot moral swarms, forcing the Lindens hand then claiming it was ‘their decision’. You’re always trying to start a fight on here, which I just have to laugh at. Like your anonymous alias means anything. Look how easy it is for me to do it too, coward.
huh?
Sep 8th, 2008
who was w-hat again and what is baku?
Reality
Sep 8th, 2008
Dearie? Next time try to actually form a thought instead of some half baked notion based on what you think is the real world.
In Second Life the only Private Property is that which is set to keep the public at large out. Full stop.
There is not a single individual simulator running on the Grid that is ‘owned’ by ANYONE aside from Linden Lab. You are RENTING those servers and the ability to connect them to the Grid. At ANY time the Lindens can come in and take it all away from you and then auction it off to the highest bidder.
My ‘alias’ is far from anonymous little child. try actually clicking the link – you may find that I quite readily have my Second Life User Name listed on my web page.
The only Abuse Reports I have ever filed have been on little twits who have decided to harass me in world over some comment on a web log or message board.
Kindly do your research before attempting to respond to me in the future.
Actually – do not bother attempting a response as you will undoubtedly try and tell me some bullshit concerning ownership of the actual simulator hardware.
Take your naive view and kindly return from whence you came dear child. The real world will eat you alive with that sort of attitude.
Zac
Sep 9th, 2008
W-hat is way more important than anyone who makes sex products in SL.
Reality
Sep 9th, 2008
Your jump there is illogical and laughable. No, private people don’t own Linden’s servers, and yes Linden has the right to act on those servers. But that doesn’t mean every resident who might pass by ti should also have that same right. The problem, as has been said MANY times is NOT the Lindens who are doing nothing wrong, but the everyday joes and janes who come swarming in en masse because they don’t like something, create a huge fuss until Linden shuts it down to shut them up, then act like the decision was the Lindens entirely. The Lindens could care less what people do on their servers. But your moral police, like you I’m betting, like to jump down people’s throats and send off Abuse Reports and complain until you force the Linden’s hand then pretend you didn’t do just that.
The islands are private leases, similar to someone’s offices or apartments in real life. No, they don’t own them, and ultimately their landlords do have every right to dictate terms and/or evict them. But the lease-holder otherwise holds the same rights as an owner. They have the right to dress how they want in their apartment, to sell what they want in their shop. If a shop were to sell a CD that created controversy, and a bunch of outraged mothers went storming down to the landlord’s office demanding the shop owner is evicted, who is really the cause of this censorship? The landlord trying to keep as little trouble for himself as possible? Or the Mommy Moral Police creating a bunch of trouble?
The debate is not whether the Lindens have the right to censor groups. It is whether third parties are in the right to force their hand.
Before launching your ignorant personal attacks, you really need to do your research. Condescending just makes you look foolish when you clearly don’t have your facts straight. And your alt name fools no one. It’s hard to say that’s you when the account is off line and has a creation date younger than your oldest posts on here.
Reality
Sep 9th, 2008
And before you try denying this, let’s bring up the evidence proving this fact:
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp26/EvidenceGathers/Snapshot_001.jpg
This photo taken in world today shows that your account was created August 20, 2007.
Yet, you were posting here on the Herald as early as this article’s comments:
http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/08/i-was-wrong.html
Your comment here was made exactly two weeks prior to this date. Of course, you’ll try to say it’s not you, but your trademark attitude, the assertion of claims with no evidence and belittling those who call you on it, that’s all there in these earlier comments.
You’re not hiding behind an alt identity? Yeah sure, and maybe the sky will turn kiwi green tomorrow.
Rabid Barkley
Sep 9th, 2008
I’m gonna start an SL genitals business called ‘The Black Goku Clit Express’ or something. Visit now for a 50L$ coupon off our supersayian penis line.
Nikola Shirakawa
Sep 9th, 2008
No offense, Reality, (the blue one) but responding to charges you’re starting fights, with fighting words, really doesn’t help your case any.
lawl
Sep 10th, 2008
were’nt the first people who made canine dongs to sell to furries the W-hat goons?
Reality
Sep 10th, 2008
Dearie? Has it never occurred to you that I do not use Second Life very much? Has it never occurred to you that perhaps I read what I could BEFORE creating an account?
No – of course it hasn’t Dearie. Children like you make an assumption well before actually thinking things through.
For example – Sorry, no. Unless a simulator that has been rented from the Lab is set to Group Only access – you do not have a case. Second Life is NOT the Real World child. There is no such thing as “Private Ownership” when it comes to these simulators.
To claim otherwise is wishful thinking. There is no ‘research’ required to understand that fact child.
Now – what did I tell you about responding to me before doing your research and doing a bit of growing up in the real world kiddo?
Until you actually have someting of worth to type from that naive and rather void mind of yours … Refrain from responding as it only wastes my time.
Oh! I do however thank you for letting me know it has been a while since I last logged in – Maybe I will get a chance to this week.
Then again … maybe not.
Reality
Sep 10th, 2008
I did my research. Just because you can invent a claim with no backing does not negate the facts. The proof is now on you to support this ridiculous accusation that private leasing does not exist in SL. I did not say ownership. Linden owns everything. But there are still private rights accorded to lease-holders which is what the case would be for SL.
And you just decided to start reading THIS publication before you played? This seems odd since you clearly demonstrated awareness for the in-world situation as well as certain players in it. Your comments are not random question asking at that prior date, but statements that could only be made by someone familiar with SL. Not to mention this site is FAR from the upper hits on Google regarding Second Life. So either you conducted exhaustive research prior to playing a free game for the first time, which would make you neurotic, or your lie is spinning right back around you.
When you start telling the truth, as opposed to made up bullshit coupled with a rude condescending attitude towards those who actually have facts on their side, then you can respond to me. Until then, try reading a book of leasing law and do some actual research, ‘kiddo’.
Reality
Sep 10th, 2008
dearie? When you can actually back up what you claim with in world cases – THEN you will have earned the right to respond to me.
You have NO rights within Second Life pertaining to ‘land’. Again child – Second Life is not the Real World.
As far as your little assumption goes – I have watched my friends using Second Life before. Google Search hits do not make a case as to research criteria in making such an amusing claim.
Once more – in the future kindly come to me with something that you can actually use instead of mindless drivel, based on Real World cases and laws.
Until such a time as you can present a Second Life case to prove your point arises – you are merely spouting off nonsense.
Oh – by the by child … You call me a coward when my user name is clearly visible to anyone that actually bothers to follow the link and yet you hide behind a name with NO link, NO information whatsoever.
Kindly drop the act child – you are simply pissed that Real World rules and laws have no case or precedent within Second Life.
The ONLY rights you have are: setting an entire simulator to Group Only Access, Creating a Ban List for said simulator, and the same controls over individual sections of a simulator.
Please – take your ire and go somewhere else child.
That is – unless you can prove your case with actual in world events.
Miko Finl
Sep 10th, 2008
e warssssssss
Reality
Sep 10th, 2008
Google hits don’t count, but this is a very difficult site to find. It would take deep research if you weren’t already in-world to find it. Too deep for anyone to do before downloading a trying a game that has a starting cost of free.
“Land” rules don’t apply. You’re right. But leased property rights and laws do. The laws that govern anything leased from an apartment to a playstation. If you lease something, you act as owner in any and all events and circumstances relating to the thing you have leased, unless the dispute in question involves the actual person. The word land is not valid here in any way. The fact is, island “owners” are leasing servers from Linden Lab. While Linden has the right to scrub that server, no one else has that direct right. Sure, you and your third-party moral police can go in and pressure Linden indirectly to impose your will on others, but you do not have that right. Real worlkd law does apply rgearding the physical media in the real world involved, i.e. the physical servers hosting the content. There are no case laws relevant here because there can’t be. The Terms of Service until recently imposed arbitration in place of actual court proceedings. It is only recently that it has been made possible to actually try cases involving in-world events in real-world court. Furthermore, just because there has not been a case yet, does not mean such a case would not be valid. It merely has not been tried yet., Case precedent is not needed when actual laws are already there.
Again, the burden of proof otherwise is on you. Individual Citizens do not have the right to9 control what someone does in the private island they have leased, private here meaning being the term used by Linden Lab to differentiate from mainland parcels. You do not have the right to go to someone else’s sim and complain about their content there. If the Terms of Service sya otherwise, please list that here. Otherwise you have lost the argument.
General Drama
Sep 11th, 2008
Reality,
Which avie? I see two: Universal Infinity and Angelus Periculum
Now, Yukiko Omegamu runs a group called The Angelus Project…. so it looks like Intlib was right about you: you are either Yukiko, or one of she-he’s buttbuddies.
IntLibber Brautigan
Sep 11th, 2008
Reality,
What you dont understand is that the SL land system works EXACTLY like the feudal land system we have here in the US and which arose in feudal europe. Essentially you have the sovereign (i.e. the king/queen) who was annointed by the pope as having ‘divine right’ to a given territory, ergo posessed Allode to their domain.
In SL, LL is both ‘god’, but also the present sovereign over the grid, exercising their defacto state power via their g-team.
On the mainland, LL has a direct contractual relationship with people it sells land to, ergo mainlanders may be ‘commoners’, but they are direct vassals of the sovereign. The deed to their land is a feod or ‘fee simple’ land deed from the sovereign. The vassal pays a fee or feod to their land lord or liege, which today is known as property tax.
Wrt private estates, the estate owners are granted estate powers and are thusly part of the aristocracy, being granted the title of estate owner, i.e. land baron, by LL, and given the powers and privileges attendant to that title. The sovereign is liege to the land baron.
The land baron can sell fee simple title to land in his own domains, using his estate owner power (and his appointed estate managers can do likewise as agents of the lord), and collecting fee, or property tax, for the vassals use of the land. The vassal has land ownership rights as we know them today in the US and Britain.
A vassal may rent his land to serfs who are tenants, not land owners, for fixed periods, and may be evicted at any time. Serfs do not have any ownership rights over the land. Thus, those who rent space on the mainland from mainland ‘slumlords’ are serfs because the land is never deeded to them or to groups that they own. The mainland remains in the ownership of the vassal or the vassals groups.
A feudal system works thusly: sovereign to overlord, overlord to vassal, vassal to serf.
There are significant misunderstandings in SL about various sorts of land ownership simply because most people do not understand the feudal land system. Vassals of estate owners are confused with serfs of mainland vassals. Some people would prefer to be a vassal of Linden Lab than a vassal of an estate owner, or even to be a serf of a mainland vassal than to be a vassal of an estate owner.
Some estate owners have abused their power, but most offer higher level of service to their vassals than LL does to their own mainland vassals. However, mainland vassals tend to have a worse reputation, and, worse yet, call themselves ‘estate owners’ when they really have zero estate powers themselves. Their abuses tend to give estate owners in general a bad name when real estate owners do not generally commit such abuses.
Now, Reality, when you say I do not own my virtual land, I rent it, that statement is only true in the sense that I do not own my RL land either, even though I have a fee simple deed to it, the state of New Hampshire is the real ‘owner’, as is the case with all homeowners. However most people in RL do not look at it that way: if you have a fee simple deed, you are the ‘owner’ for all practical intents and purposes, and you are a vassal of the state sovereign, to whom you pay property taxes to, ergo, tier. If you rent a room in your house to someone, your tenant is a serf, and if you rent it to them in exchange for work, they are a servant. If they do so under contract, they are an indentured servant.
Reality
Sep 11th, 2008
Sorry Dearie – I see not a single thing in your response that shows you have provided what is required for you to make such a statement.
Either show me a direct case to prove your point or go away. It is that simple.
By the by child – I do not go to other people’s simulators looking to send out an Abuse Report. Kindly get your facts straight next time.
In addition – as has already been stated – your only rights are what the Lindens have given you concerning who may be on your parcel or in your simulator. Even Web Hosting companies like AOL and MSN do not tell you “You cannot report people for content you find offensive if they are renting/leasing space from us.”
Now then child – if you are going to actually take the Lindens for their word in calling a rented simulator not actually set to restrict access “Private” … You are more of a fool than I first thought.
Once more you are attempting to spout utter idiocy and wishful thinking to back up your own case. My own has been built form observable instances.
Hate to break this to you but if such things were against the law – why, there’d be cases already filed! I have yet to hear of any cases concerning Second Life where someone has had their content removed due to someone else finding it offensive.
I dealt with what IS child – not what could be.
Now then – off with you to try again and actually find me a case.
Oh – I notice you are still leaning on using my own chosen name here in a mocking attempt. Once again – who is the coward? What – afraid that I will IM you? Please … When I do log in it is to forget about worthless dreamers like you.
I will wait for the next laughable excuse for a response from you – just to see what utter drivel you will spout off with next.
uh oh...
Sep 11th, 2008
Er, um, ah… I was looking through the list of spaces that have been taken by people for the Second Life Burning Life thing that is coming up at the end of September, which is at a website called vburn.org, and I noticed that Green Lantern Excelsior has a place in the middle of the Burning Life (hydro) sim. Could one assume then that would be the place where the JLU is going to be located at Burning Life, spying on the Desert People, collecting keys and data off of of them to put into the JLU Brainiac database? Just wondering.
Reality
Sep 11th, 2008
General Dearie – AngelusPericulum is an AOL E-mail address.
Now, if your Latin (which I will admit I had help on that screen name) needs some brushing up: The Screen Name/E-Mail address is actually backwards. It SHOULD have been PericulumAngelus or “Angel of Destruction”
I would think you’d have a bit more brainpower than that.
Now then … on to Intlibber …
Can you try that again WITHOUT equating what amounts to nothing more than data on a hard drive which can be erased at any time to something in the REAL world hmm?
HERE is how the system in Second Life works: The Lindens own everything, you own nothing. You pay them for the privilege to use THEIR system and resources.
That is ALL Intlibber.
Christ almighty – what is it with whack jobs that try to bring the real world into a place of fantasy anyway?
Is it so hard to actually treat Second Life how it should be treated – as nothing more and nothing less than a world which does not really exist at all?
Reality
Sep 11th, 2008
You’ve yet to hear of someone’s content being removed because someone found it offensive?
What about that “abortion clinic” the w-hats made a few weeks ago, kicking off this whole debate? If you don’t remember that, you are truly stupid.
I never said it wasn’t allowed to do the moral swarm thing. That’s not the issue. Stop trying to change the issue to one you can prove so easily wrong. Of course things like that aren’t explicitly forbidden, but that doesn’t give you the RIGHT to. Not the ability to, the RIGHT to. Furthermore, the debt is whether or not that is right for moral swarms to impose thier will in such a manner.
The rules for a game of Monopoly don’t say you aren’t allowed to reach across the board and take your opponents hotels by force. But you try that in a game, you can be sure as heck people you play against will take issue with that.
I didn’t say private island as the term because I believe it was private as the Lindens called it. I was simply using it as the official term to differentiate it from mainland parcels. If the product was officially named Rainbow Generating parcels, I’d use that term because it was official, and whether it’s climes were true or not were irrelevant.
You think you can keep your deflated bullshit argument afloat by saying it’s “observable”, while requiring higher standards for arguments in opposition. Simply telling someone they didn’t argue in the way you want them to, so their points are worthless and wrong and they are children does not actually invalidate a constructed argument which it has been sufficently proven is correct.
You say I need to name cases but you have not for your claims. You say I have not earned the right to invalidate your arguments, when you so clearly refuse to respond directly knowing you are wrong. You change your focus of argument on the fly to something completely impossible to prove wrong and act like that was the argument all along. If we were to argue about the color fo the clouds, you’d switch it to the sky behind when you begin to lose the tide.
You want to know why I use your name? Simple, “dearie”. You, like the Witness X, and various anti-griefers before you, drag down the quality of life in SL with your insanity, due to your pollution of these message boards. I’ve been waiting for your time a while now, and as I did to them, so shall I do to you. Your wishy-washy flim-flam seems to be immune to attacks. But put a bit of a record out, of opposing opinions, and sooner or later no one can tell which is the real you, and you disappear, unable to comment further. Kalel Venkman does not post anymore. Witness X are drying up. Start packing, you’re next, Miss Sautereau.
Yes, thanks to Int’s pal up there, I finally figured out who you are and why you refuse to disclose your main account’s identity. He thought you were Yukiko. No proof of that, but looking at who was connected turned up one much more likely identity, your own of Penance Sautereau. Once that name came up, all the pieces fit. The crazy assumption waving, the condescensions, the complete lack of actual evidence for your arguments. It even lines up neatly with your opinions. One of the earlier arguments you commented on was Nikola Shirakawa’s JLU indictment. There you were clearly on his side, joining in the accusations. Your little feuds with Tenshi and Prokofy match Penance’s favored opines. And you recent switch to venomously berating Shirakawa’s arguments here and on a couple of other articles, all of which come after your debacle with Post Six where Shirakawa publicly ended your friendship. Soon after, Reality began popping up more frequently in posts, in place of Penance Sautereau. A joke initially made to make an argument against Tenshi Vielle, it has become your little comment veil, allowing you to keep polluting these boards with your deconstructive filth without people openly nailing you with the reputation you earned for yourself.
I’ve proven my arguments. Anyone doubting the accuracy of my claims may feel free to peruse to the archived articles of the Herald and other Second Life blogs to see for themselves the truth.
PS Penny? You don’t want to use words like dearie which so quickly mark you as an older womyn, if you are trying to hide your identity completely.
Reality
Sep 11th, 2008
Actually, dearie, I chose not to use that name simply because children like you decided to use it to slander me in world. Your idiocy here has shown me that my concerns were well founded. You figured it out. Congratulations.
Doesn’t change the fact that your a foolish little child with no real understanding of how Second Life works. I can’t believe I have to say it again.
REAL LIFE IN NO WAY APPLIES TO SECOND LIFE.
Find a case saying otherwise, or leave. That’s my ultimatum.
Reality
Sep 11th, 2008
Dearie? try again. You have proven absolutely nothing at all.
I hold you to higher standards for a reason child – You actually seem to think that your own lines of utter bullshit amount to anything beyond the wishful thinking of one who would like to see a world that is FAKE and DOES NOT EXIST become more like the one that IS in YOUR own mind.
Sorry – no.
Until you can PROVE with VALID, EXISTING CASES that a user of Second Life does not have the RIGHT to report what they find offensive ANYWHERE on the Grid where the PUBLIC can go … you have NO case and NO argument. Plain and simple.
I see however that you are just like the other children who cling to this insane need to ‘out an alt’ where none exists. That is about as pitiful and childish as some little tween on AOL using whatever tools they can to gain control of a member made room simply because the original creator decided to eject them.
I see that someone else has decided to be truly cut and childish and actually use my own hyper links to forge a response.
Grow the fuck up kids. That sort of trick is the type I’d expect form some snot nosed brat working his was through middle school and being beaten nightly by his daddy.
In any event – I did NOT say anything about not seeing cases where offensive content was removed child. I said that I have yet to see a REAL WORLD COURT CASE where someone decided to sue for HAVING their content removed because someone found it offensive.
Try a little reading comprehension next time.
Now then – since it seems that the truly immature little shits have now decided to come out of the wood work, I will leave you all to fight amongst yourselves for a time.
Please – feel free to continue you little games. I’ll be laughing from the sidelines as you continue to play ‘create an identity’.
Here are the FACTS for you however:
1. My name is Max.
2. The ONLY Second Life Avatar I have is Universal Infinity.
3. Claims to the contrary MUST contain accurate IP Address logs and data which WILL require you to BREAK the law to get.
Unless you are willing to put your head on the chopping block for hacking into a private company system to get the data required kids … All you are doing is pissing into the wind.
Nikola Shirakawa
Sep 11th, 2008
Reality, (grey one) you’d better be careful with those funky accusations. Trust me, you start throwing around accusations of linking these fake shadow names to real avatars, you find yourself unable to prove it, and looking quite foolish.
Oh and, wrong pronouns. I’m a girl, please be more careful in the future.
One last thing to head off at the pass before it happens. I am not carrying any sort of grudge against the JLU or Kalel Venkman and his associates. I have apologized for unethical past tactics I used, and before people begin using that article mention to draw me into their line of fire, I apologize and retract that article.
reality (none of the above realities)
Sep 12th, 2008
@ Reality (both grey and blue one)
Please, if you have to use that name, don’t make yourself look like a retard.
I also use the name reality for certain comments I make, and I don’t want people to think I am either one of you, if that makes me look bad.
reality
Sep 12th, 2008
Stop giving reality a bad name, you pompous faggots! D:<
Witness X
Sep 13th, 2008
So wait, Reality, you want court cases from real life when according to you real life is irrelevant? Explain how that’s supposed to work.
Reality
Sep 13th, 2008
X Dearie – The claims are that the act of removing content from Second Life, spawned by an Abuse Report sent in on said content sitting in a public access simulator is somehow illegal in Real Life.
To prove this point – a Real Life case MUST be present.
Kindly use some of those neurons that you have killed off.
Witness X
Sep 13th, 2008
From my reading here, no one said it was illegal to do that anywhere. They just said it wasn’t explicitly permitted. You’re the one trying to bring actual legality into it.
Reality
Sep 13th, 2008
X Dearie – The child who seems to think he is being witty by using my chosen pseudonym was the one who claimed that such things were not allowed by law.
Once again – Kindly use some of those dead neurons.
Actually read – do not skim.
Surreality
Sep 14th, 2008
“Reality” = Prokofy on meth
Reality
Sep 14th, 2008
I did no such thing. I said the law does not give you the explicit permission to impose morals on others. You’re the one who’s skimming and glossing over details because you refuse to be wrong.
Reality
Sep 14th, 2008
Sorry Dearie but … no. It is implied by your position that the law is against such a thing – this infers that there is a law against it.
You can own up to it or you can attempt to deny it.
Now then – are you done attempting to tiptoe around getting the proof required to back up your position? Have you found a case so far where someone sued after the removal of their content from Second Life?
Once more: If the data can be easily viewed by the public – it is not private. If you want to keep out those who feel it is their job to scour the Grid and Abuse Report whatever they find offensive – as many have done in other, non-visual services – then you make certain the general public cannot get to it. Only then is it private.
The argument you use would make it unlawful for someone to report two persons cybering in a public accessible space as well, something which any and everyone has the right to report.
In Second Life – the only ‘private’ things are Instant Messages and simulators set to block public access.
No mater what you may wish – no mater how the Lindens have phrased their marketing … That is the way it is.
Reality
Sep 15th, 2008
Implied nothing. Once again, the public does not have a right to impose their will on others. That does not mean it is illegal to do so, just that it it is not explicitly permitted, and is furthermore unethical. I do not need a court case because the law is irrelevant. We are talking ethics not legalities. Stop trying to change the argument.
Reality
Sep 15th, 2008
dearie – ethics has no place in this discussion. Period. Legality does and it was implied by your words.
Once more – find a court case or go back to the hole you crawled out of. even using an ethical argument, you are talking about a PUBLIC ACCESS place. Not group Access or Private Access. Full stop right there – that alone nulls your argument.
Have a nice day dearie. Kindly play again.