Corsi Mousehold: JLU Are Power Hungry Crazed Nutjobs
by Alphaville Herald on 09/03/10 at 12:38 pm
[Corsi Mousehold has been awarded the “commie” or comment-of-the-week award for her explanation of why the Justice League Unlimited superheros are not welcome in Furnation. The award winning comment is reproduced below. ]
Here’s a bit of a story. IN years past the JLU were a welcomed member of the FurNation community. They didn’t bother anyone and no one really bothered them. That was until we were under a griefer attack and the JLU came over to ‘assist’ and the first thing they did was report ME to the lab for griefing. They approached me and yelled at me for causing the issue. I asked them why they reported me of all people. By this time I had already deleted all the offensive material. They told me that I was the one putting it all out and they had seen me doing it. Basically they had watched me selecting objects to return them. They were extremely rude to me at the time and informed me that they would have reports go up on me. I contacted Kalel and he too said I was being reported and then for harassment as well. I was not rude to these people at all. It was several days later that I was contacted by Kalel informing me that the ‘charges’ had been dropped because they did not realize I was the sim owner. My response of course was to point to the info hub I had in the center of the sandbox that had my name clearly displayed as the sim owner and if his comrades had taken a moment to look they would have seen I was in the admin team.
He called me ungrateful and abuse reported me again. I was informed of this by him as well as he had several of his friends make the same report. All reports were dismissed by the GOV team as illegitimate. Soon I had JLU members ‘patrolling’ the sandboxes and abuse reporting anyone that they felt was disobeying my rules. They started to get several members of my community banned. I was forced to add a new sim rule that the JLU were not allowed in the sim for any reason. When they had seen this, I was reported again for griefing. Again the report was dismissed.
In the end I was approached months later by Green Lantern Corps asking if it was okay for them to be there. They apologized for the treatment the JLU had given me and asked if they would be allowed to just come and build.
Green Lantern Corps are allowed to visit and act if they wish. But they are not allowed to be in tag or act as a part of the Corps while visiting. If they are the subject of a griefing they are to come to me and I would take care of it. They can then file all the reports they like.
In the end the JLU are a bunch of power hungry crazed nutjobs that think being an SL Police force gives them the right to get away with whatever they want. The GLC on the other hand have always been very respectful to me and my residents.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Mar 19th, 2010
@ Wyrdwolf Legion
“Now you are being delusional.
This isn’t aimed specifically at you.”
LL urges all Second Life Residents to write ARs. All JLU members are Second Life Residents. Therefore, LL urges all JLU members to write ARs.
“It also doesnt say to teleport in unaffected residents to send extra reports in. That only distorts the true picture of how many residents are affected.”
The LL Knowledge Base article says “We encourage you to file reports on abuse you see happening anywhere in addition to abuse that targets you personally.” Anywhere means ANYWHERE, not just the area in my immediate vicinity. If there’s a sim full of Residents who are affected, LL is going to receive several ARs. That shows them that the event is a higher priority than some of the “drama” ARs they get, and it brings the event closer to the top of the stack so they can take care of it right away. And as I said before, once I am at the scene of an attack, I am one of the affected residents, and that means it’s AR time (if the owner won’t remove the objects).
@ Senban
“I’ve already said that I’m perfectly capable of separating personal opinion (such as might appear in a comment such as this one) and being objective (such as investigating an article).”
I’m sure you believe in your own capability to be impartial. That capability is not apparent to an outside observer who reads your posts here, though. Your own bias and antipathy excludes you from being a candidate to conduct a formal JLU interview. Also, the bias and antipathy of the Herald itself means that any kind of official JLU interview will never happen here. JLU has looked at several Second Life blogs and newspapers as potential interview locations, but there’s no urgent reason for immediate action.
To put this in terms of the “Peanuts” comic strip, you doing an interview with Kalel for the Herald would be like you holding a football and urging Kalel to run up and kick it. He knows you always pull the football away just as he goes for the kick, but you’re assuring him that this time will be different. Charlie Brown could always be fooled with the football trick. Kalel is not Charlie Brown.
“If only there wasn’t so much material still waiting to be published…….”
Is there? This article is nothing new, just a quote from another article reposted as an award thread. What’s the next article? “Haruhi Thespian: Avatar of the Week?” Or is someone diving into the wiki files to look for more startling revelations?
“What about a mandate for a secret wiki full of false information and private data gathered without people’s knowledge? Where’s your mandate for that?”
That’s not a mandate. That’s a technical innovation implemented to improve the group.
@ Tux Winkler
“The JLU who recieve the group notification ‘OMG Marios in Sandbox Goguen by Jo Avatar’, and fly in and report Jo Avatar on the say so of the original caller, should step back. They wasn’t there they didn’t see it and do not know the scenario. Who is to say the person reporting to the group does not have an issue with the suggested spammer?”
As I explained before, no one writes an AR solely on the basis of someone else’s notification. We each come to the area, evaluate the incident, decide whether it’s a violation, and make our own decision about whether to write an AR.
“There is something in the CS which explains mass TPing into a sim is seen as a form of griefing (I cannot look it up from my phone).”
I’ve been using the Community Standards for several years and I’ve never seen anything even close to this.
“I understand you was offered help once, perhaps you should seek it out.”
Maybe I’m just dense today but I don’t know what that means.
@ Selkit Diller
“Get out and stay out, “heroes”. You are welcome only out of uniform, out of tags, and as any other resident.”
The following are among the sims listed as off limits on the JLU Patrol Routes page:
FurNation Alpha
FurNation Aqua
FurNation Dragon
FurNation Gama
FurNation Kami
FurNation Phoenix
FurNation Prime
FurNation Vista
The page hasn’t been updated since December, so some of those sims may not be there any more. It should be noted, however, that the events in question all occurred around 2007, and things have changed since then.
@ Gaara Sandalwood
“False DMCA takedowns are illegal.”
No, they aren’t. Whether the takedown is false or not is a judgment call. The only way you’ll get anyone into court over a DMCA takedown is by suing him. If the judge determines it was a false DMCA request, you can get the other guy to pay damages. You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.
Tux Winkler
Mar 19th, 2010
GLE – I hate to do this as you enforce the TOS and CS. As such you should know this but:
. . . abusing mass-teleporting is disturbing the peace per our Community Standards.
I couldn’t grab the link from my phone, but you should be able to search it.
As to your AR TPing, you are missing my point (could be my fault I am tired), so I will try to be clearer:
Upon a member of the JLU seeing a ‘grief’ then notify everyone to come see. By the time they arrive they only see the end result, perhaps without seeing the person who is supposedly griefing. So, let me set a fictional example:
- Kalel is in Sandbox Goguen, Tux TP’s in.
- Kalel says ‘Hi Tux lets make up, I made you a badge as a gift!’
- Tux says ‘Ok’ and accepts the badge
- Tux wears the badge and it rezzes self replicating lolcubes
- Kalel notifies the JLU Tux is griefing
- They TP in and see loads of replicating lolcubes owned by Tux
- They all file reports on Tux
- Kalel strokes his white cat
Is that clearer? It is impossible for the TP’d to know anything other than the TPer has told them. And before you say but the creator would show Kalel, I have done more than enough full perm freebies for anyone to spoof my creation.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Mar 19th, 2010
@ Tux
“. . . abusing mass-teleporting is disturbing the peace per our Community Standards.”
“Disturbing the Peace
Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident’s ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace.”
I don’t see any words about teleporting in there.
“Is that clearer? It is impossible for the TP’d to know anything other than the TPer has told them.”
It’s not impossible. Here’s how it works. The call comes out on the JLU channel, “Replicating lolcubes, owner Tux Winkler, SLURL.” I edit one of the cubes to see who the owner is, click the IM button on your profile window, and ask you “Did you rez all these lolcubes in Sandbox Goguen on purpose?” When you tell me what really happened, I’ll forward that information on the JLU channel so you will still get ARed, but the AR writer will write in the comments section that you were tricked into doing it. The RESI Team shows up and removes the cubes but leaves you in the sandbox. Problem solved.
If you are a newbie, you may not know how to delete the cubes or you may be deleting only one at a time. I will try to explain to you how to select several at once to delete them. If you’re still having trouble, I will try my new tactic and ask if you will temporarily give me permission to edit your objects. That works most of the time, and you might even give several of us that permission so we can delete most of the cubes and clean the place up. When we’re done cleaning up we will remove that edit permission and let you know what we did.
Danziel Lane
Mar 19th, 2010
@ GLE
“LL urges all Second Life Residents to write ARs.”
And in their article they have a lot of tipps to avoid ARs and act as adult human beings instead.
“The LL Knowledge Base article says We encourage you to file reports on abuse you see happening …”
As you asked me about being a native English speaker (does it matter, SL is for all nations and cultures) … do you really understand the meaning of the word abuse?
ARs are good to report abuse. However, as we are all adult people, they are the last of the actions provided by LL. I have always preferred not to run to mom LL and whine there. Abuse reports are not the first choice to stop griefing if you are a grown up with some experience in life.
The KB says: “If there IS a sim full of residents …” they do not say: “If there will be a sim full of residents …”
Tping in for multi ARs is subject to be misused and abused very easily.
A real trustable police group should not use any action that can so easily abused.
And again: griefers are NOT criminals. And all the fuss, police groups make up because of some fun seeking people, they keep the focus away from real criminals, that phish for our data, that collect private data or give out nasty objects while all are confused about the griefers and police groups. Collecting private data, no matter if for a private superhero database or for spying out RL identities or even credit card info is a crime and groups that do that cannot be called police groups nor peacekeepers.
Also, focussing on griefers that become seldom in SL keeps residents and the G-Team away from spending time on the safety that real criminals are spoiling.
“To put this in terms of the Peanuts comic strip,…”
Interesting thing. You can’t get away from kids comic strips. The interesting part is that in your metaphors Kalel changed from superman to Charly Brown. Great insight.
OK, you do not trust the team of the Herald to do no harm to Kalel. You must be aware of the fact that how you think about people also reveals much about your own thoughts. If he really were a superhero, he would do the interview.
He has no other chance to speak to an interested audience. That funny AR party in the SL blogs only tells people that he, Kalel, is the one who cannot be trusted.
Cause other than Kalel in the blogs the Herald does not do anything to censor your opinion or that of Wayfinder.
“As I explained before, no one writes an AR solely on the basis of someone else’s notification.”
This might be your understanding. However, I would not be so sure about all others. I guess, a lot of people would very much like to support people like Kalel by writing ARs about what and whom ever he says to write about. Just look through the wiki and think about it again.
” … and make our own decision about whether to write an AR.”
Apart from examples as Tux wrote them. Are you so sure about new applicants of such a group that come tping in with the others that they would only take a minute time to evaluate and think and then would say: “No, I didnt witnees enough to write a report of abuse”?
“No, they aren’t. Whether the takedown is false or not is a judgment call.”
Well, talk to the judge after he found out that copyright was claimed for a collection of private data, harvested without consent of the people listed. He will not be happy to have to work on DMCA claims only to find out that these claims were made to hide the crime of stealing and harvesting private data. Here in Germany you would meet another judge after that, talking to you about misusing law and abusing the courts.
Miss J
Mar 19th, 2010
@ Everyone : STFU !
Selkit Diller
Mar 19th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
If you have a “no patrol list”, would you care to explain the list of FurNation sims named very clearly in the first screenshot in the Herald’s “Superman in Disgrace” article? Clearly identifiable to the left hand side of the image are FurNation Hell, FurNation Gryphon, FurNation Phoenix, FurNation Dragon, and FurNation Vista? Two of these sims you have specifically named as “no patrol” zones, and yet you have online status monitoring on them?
Please explain why you are monitoring the status of sims JLU “Does not patrol”. And please explain why you are monitoring FurNation sims at all? I have made it -quite- clear JLU is not welcome at all, given their penchant for clandestine monitoring, and GLC/Lanterns are only welcome when titled down, out of uniform, and acting as ordinary SL residents.
Judge Joker
Mar 19th, 2010
@GLE
“I’ll forward that information on the JLU channel so you will still get ARed, but the AR writer will write in the comments section that you were tricked into doing it.”
You are still involving people who are not there at the time, who have only your word for what happened, and sending Ar’s that are either duplicates or copy’s that might falsely state or give the impression they are involved.
You are spreading what someone tells you without their consent to other group members, was that a TOS violation?
You are teleporting other group members into a situation in order to escalate that situation to a conclusion, and while we all like to have things dealt with promptly and efficiently, abusing the AR system and TP system to make that a reality is not the way to take it forward.
You would be better educating those around you who use the sandbox to fill in ARs as apposed to involving people who are not directly involved in the situation in order to get what you want.
Because if that happened you would not need to be in the sandbox at all, the residents can look after themselves anyway but I see this would dethrone you of your self enforced power and need and I can’t see you doing that because we can all agree priority one is your groups need to exist.
Just because one time a JLU or GLE member told everyone the “resident” was tricked into it don’t mean next time they will if it was someone they do not like.
Fact: JLU seem to think being Tizzers is a crime, think they would not want to get Tizzers alt’s banned?.
And dare I say, pushing the AR system in favour of your report over someone else’s situation that could be more desperate and more of a problem than lolcubes.
Have you ever had to deal with someone who was at fault for disclosure and more of a problem by telling me they were going to kill themselves in rl? and how would you you handle that situation?
Every situation like that regardless of if they have Munchausen’s syndrome or are not telling the truth for what ever reason has to be treated equally and always under the impression that it might be true with regards to risk to life.
Couple of Ars and it all goes away? there are many people in Second Life with issues deeper than lolcubes.
So thank you for proving regardless your group and JLU group is happy to abuse the system for your own priorities.
Tux Winkler
Mar 20th, 2010
@GLE
“I don’t see any words about teleporting in there.”
- I was on my phone, I think I googled ‘second life community standards mass teleport’ take a look.
- I think it refers to the mass lag the server has when the JLU power rings, HUD’s and mass AR triggers all happen at once.
“I edit one of the cubes to see who the owner is, click the IM button on your profile window, and ask you “Did you rez all these lolcubes in Sandbox Goguen on purpose?” When you tell me what really happened, I’ll forward that information on the JLU channel so you will still get ARed, but the AR writer will write in the comments section that you were tricked into doing it.”
- I believe this of you, but the others I do not, certainly not Kalel (having read more of the wiki). I think he would immediately jump in and say look at the creator. Unfortunately, I have seen the level of knowledge to be quite low in respect to this sort of thing. So, RESI would turn up and because only one AR told the truth majority rules, I would get banned.
I do believe your intent, despite occasionally climbing up on your pedestal you are generally decent. I would not say the say for the others. In fact at least the lanterns (or some of them) have a sense of humour. But please do not be so naive as to think the others share your morals. We could not joke around in a sandbox with them like we do with you!
We
Mar 20th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“Kalel wouldn’t ask anyone to do that, and any recruit who tried it would get an immediate education about why it’s a bad idea”
I’m sorry, but I’ve lost faith in your ability to judge the character of your teammates. You had the same sort of faith in WriterofPoetry, and he accosted me in the sandbox attempting to toss commands at me behind a mask of false power.
“That’s your personal interpretation. What’s illegal about any of that?”
Jesus, seriously? What’s illegal about making false DMCAs to bully and strong arm people into submission, suppress free speech, and abuse a system for your own devious intentions? If you can’t figure out what’s immoral about that, then you guys really are a lost cause.
“He said that maybe the lawsuit wouldn’t need to be valid, but you’d better make sure it was so you didn’t get into trouble. In other words, you wouldn’t want to make up a false complaint, because if it ever went to court, you might be the one who ends up behind bars.”
That’s not the sense I got out of it.
“Whether the suit has merit or not is probably irrelevant to whether information can be requested” – Meaning: We can file false lawsuits, it doesn’t matter what about, so long as we can obtain the information we want.
“but one should be prepared to go to trial with a suit like this. The legal system is not kind to people who use the system in unintended ways.” – Meaning: But we better be careful, because we don’t want to get caught in the act of abusing the law.
Sure they never did it, but the fact that they were publicly discussing it, and the fact that the overall goal was NOT to prosecute this person, but to illicitly obtain real life information not available to them, a feat you have explicitly stated your group does not and will not do, so they can use it against the person.
Why does this not come off as exceedingly immoral to you?
“It appears that you are trying to divert attention away from your original assertion that JLU is attempting to “gain power” in SL.”
I could say the same to you, or that you didn’t understand my point. How does one gain power in any sense? There’s three ways: people, information, and technology.
Your group is amassing all three:
- It actively recruits new members to a number of groups controlled by members of the JLU for the purpose of being a police force, the JLU explicitly takes advantage of these numbers to do AR Parties, gather information, and do unwanted surveillance. Your group catalogs and attempts to recruit any Linden that shows to be any bit friendly towards your cause in the same way that criminal organizations will try to befriend politicians.
- It illicitly gathers information on residents without their knowledge, agreement, or any way to opt-out. Then catalogs and shares this information for the purpose of using against their targets.
- It attempts to make/control new technology to help them gain control over large ban lists (i.e.: Banlink and the Phantom Zone) Selkit Diller has already proved that the JLU has abused Banlink before.
None of these things are things any given resident has access too, and they’re things your group is actively seeking more of. This is what I would define as attempting to gain power.
“That would be Ookamisuke Babenco. I can’t imagine Writer ordering anyone to do anything like that, but I’ll take your word for it. He and Sairi have since resigned from JLU.”
That name sounds about right. My logs were wiped because of Second Life 2.0 (the glitch that if you uninstalled 2.0, it would delete all your logs and settings), but WriterofPoetry had sent me an offline IM that I happened to keep, stating only “Remove the prim”. I remember talking to him afterwards where he kept repeating the command and generally proved that his name was mostly for satirical purposes.
I’m sure you couldn’t imagine WriterofPoetry doing this, you have a poor ability to recognize corruption among your own ranks.
“Supposedly the reason given at the time was that LL didn’t want to see multiple issues on one AR. Maybe they were trying to develop statistics on how much intolerance was reported, so if they got a report with intolerance, repetitive spam, and assault, all on the same object, it would be harder to classify.”
Fair enough.
“The second statement doesn’t limit the actions to real life. In the end, we usually believe the most recent advice we’ve received from Linden Lab, and that most recent advice is that defamation applies to every person and every group in Second Life and real life.”
Congratulations, this means that the JLU is a hate-group of intolerance against the real life community of Woodbury. Perhaps you’d like to AR Party yourselves?
This is why “intolerance” doesn’t work as a concept against anything that is a choice. If you’re born a certain skin color, you have no choice in that nor ability to change it. You can’t be intolerant of someone’s choices, you can only disagree with them. Therefore you disagree with Woodbury, you’re not intolerant of them. Just like any “anti-furry” things would be disagreeing with the choice of being furry, not being intolerant of them. This is why there’s a debate on whether homosexuality is a choice or not, if it’s not then being anti-gay is intolerance, if it is then it’s disagreeing with their choices.
Wyrdwolf Legion
Mar 20th, 2010
@ GLE
“LL urges all Second Life Residents to write ARs. All JLU members are Second Life Residents. Therefore, LL urges all JLU members to write ARs.”
This is tenuous, even for you, and not grounds for a mandate.
It is interesting to note that you seek a mandate from LL where there is none, rather than from the residents whom you claim to serve.
” Anywhere means ANYWHERE, not just the area in my immediate vicinity. If there’s a sim full of Residents who are affected, LL is going to receive several ARs. That shows them that the event is a higher priority than some of the “drama” ARs they get, and it brings the event closer to the top of the stack so they can take care of it right away. And as I said before, once I am at the scene of an attack, I am one of the affected residents, and that means it’s AR time (if the owner won’t remove the objects).”
Again, very tenuous, not to mention insulting to the residents in the area. I think that the residents in situ are more than capable of deciding if the situation is affecting the quality of their secondlives for themselves. You need to decide if you are serving the residents or ruling them. The actions of the JLU and your own words here strongly point to your belief in the latter.
As for turning to the knowledge base for your mandate, I think you should probably be aware of the the knowledge base disclaimer.
“This article is part of the Second Life® Knowledge Base. Although Linden Lab can’t guarantee its accuracy, as part of the Knowledge Base it must meet high quality standards, and designated Reviewers must approve any changes. You can edit this article and make it better!”
So.. Not gospel then.
Senban Babii
Mar 20th, 2010
@GLE
You know, I really do love the way you selectively reply to people. You always reply to bits you feel you have an answer for and ignore those bits where you blatantly don’t. It’s sweet actually
“I’m sure you believe in your own capability to be impartial. That capability is not apparent to an outside observer who reads your posts here, though. ”
Oh really? So why is it that in the last week alone, three extremely well known and senior residents of SL have come to me privately with stories and openly said that they came to me because they trust me to do a fair and impartial and thorough job? I’m paraphrasing naturally. Still, a little character assassination to discredit your critics and thus their arguments seems par for the course for the JLU. As I’ll remind you once more. My voiced opinions in the Herald comments section or elsewhere are my personal opinions. When I am putting an actual article together, personal opinions are left at the door. Read my blog on the subject.
http://whenitchanged.blogspot.com/2010/01/journalistic-integrity-my-thoughts-as.html
Now this bit, oh this bit tickled me 8D
“Kalel is not Charlie Brown.”
Haha no, he’s SNOOPY
Geddit? Sorry but you gave me that one on a plate my little green fruit 8P
Oh and yes, there are fresh articles still to come. If only you could see what’s on my hard disc. But when you post all the articles at once, people don’t have time to assimilate the wider picture, to debate it and decide how they feel about it. Everything gets lost in the mess.
But remember something else too. Pix once told me that half the story is in the comments and that means you’re all reporters just as much as anyone wearing a group tag. Look at Intlibber’s recent revelations about JLU monitoring devices. Look at Selkit Diller’s similar revelations. The facts are gradually coming to light my little green friend.
Incidentally, I look forward to reading Kalolcakes’ interview wherever it gets published. I imagine he’ll soon find a place where he can set the agenda and have a say in what gets published. Such safe interviews are the recourse of the embattled who, knowing they can’t face their critics directly, seek a platform to spread their own propaganda in the form of an “interview”. I look forward to this with interest
Senban Babii
Mar 21st, 2010
General Point Not Aimed At Anyone In Particular
I had an IM this morning from an old friend. It seems that *someone* is digging round trying to find out details of my history in Second Life. Isn’t that fun to know?
I’m quite embarrassed really that people think I’m that interesting when in reality I’m quite boring really. But hey, knock yourselves out! If you’re hoping to discover some kind of secret shameful past with which to discredit me, you’re going to be disappointed. I have no secrets really, only answers to questions that people just haven’t thought to ask. I have no shameful secrets or hideous disfigurements that force me to wear a sack over my head and drool “I ARE THE ELEFUNT WUMMUN” as I wander the darkened alleys in search of victims.
Oh well, enjoy your little meta-gaming
Tux Winkler
Mar 21st, 2010
ALL UR INTERWEB IS BELONG TO US
Hehe too funny, makes me wish I had a friend who could be stalked and probed!
Gaara Sandalwood
Mar 22nd, 2010
“No, they aren’t. Whether the takedown is false or not is a judgment call. The only way you’ll get anyone into court over a DMCA takedown is by suing him. If the judge determines it was a false DMCA request, you can get the other guy to pay damages. You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.”
1. Well illegal or not, they were false DMCA requests nonetheless. I’m not trying to attack you or the JLU in this light, I am merely saying that the bulk of the information, while a collective work under the JLU, was a collective work of other people’s private, personal, and rl information that was acquired without their consent. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with this to you, I take it?
2. Kalel Venkman and the JLU, ESPECIALLY you yourself GLE, have been insisting as of late that the DMCAs were valid, and you all think you have a right to your own facts, yet I and others who insist they were at least wrong if not illegal cannot? Typical. This coming from the people who think it okay to harvest rl information yet one member of which stated to me directly(Kara)that they were upset that their rl info and addresses were posted on Encyclopedia Dramatica(yes, I know, ED is less private than your wiki, I’ll give you that, but regardless, just sayin’). From the people who felt it okay to have spies in groups they deemed a major threat and acquire private chats and convos, yet got enraged and upset when their private wiki of info that, aside from the griefer lists, recorded meetings, and AR reports, didn’t even manifest from them/belong to them was spilled all over the internet.
Telling me I am not entitled to my own facts while showing so consistently how you’re entitled to yours is like telling me “Fuck your opinions”.
On the superhero subject, btw:
One day I was bored in SL, and a couple friends of mine from WU decided to take me and check out a Marvel RP sim. We did NOTHING of the griefing sort that visit, I was teleported into a guy’s room while he was afkish. By that, I mean we commented his room, which looked like a bedroom, looked nice. He said thanks, then aparrantly went afk. Soon after, a guy in a spidey suit came into the room, asked us why we were in there, and we kept explaining we were hanging out. We SAT on a piece of furniture, which constituted as griefing and disrupting the peace to this guy, who kept trying to send his avatar cagers after us(which I found out after standing up, he was trying to do it the whole time we were there). So then a guy in a black spidey suit TPs in and starts shouting in the sim, asking if any heroes were around. One of my friends shouts in reply and the spidey trying to keep caging/orbiting us tells us not to shout but says nothing about his own boy who’s shouting more than we are. Finally, when we TP out we contact the guy who cgaed us and he replies he pushed us, their standard of caging, and thus he did no wrong.
Self-importance is a bad thing, ya see.
I do still hope we get to have another chat in world, and maybe even with Kalel, once my net’s back on.
Gaara Sandalwood
Mar 22nd, 2010
Okay I wish to make a slight correction: I was wrong. I thought back to an old convo with GLE I had, he did admit the DMCAs may have been false. This was a mistake on my part.
Judge Joker
Mar 22nd, 2010
@Gaara Sandalwood
Takes a big man to admit he was wrong or woman as the case may be,
not something I can see Kalel Venkman living up too in the near future.
Of course Kalel Venkmans never wrong…. Justice for all! for the weak and the oppressed, but never for anyone he disagrees with! or even when he is the oppressor.
All hail Emperor Kalel “Caligula” Venkman.
Gaara Sandalwood
Mar 23rd, 2010
Well, sometimes I forget things. Plus a lot of chaotic rl bs going on and all that jazz.
DarkAngel
Apr 2nd, 2010
Well There is no such thing as DMCA rights on Chatlogs if you did not get concent for every single resident you chatlogged to have it illegally archived on a public wiki/database it is illegal, if you want to play it that way. However it could also be considered fair use, as this happend in a Virtual World Owned by Linden Lab, and they would have to legally be the ones to file the DMCa, unless of course the its virtual property owned by another resident, which I do not think counts as chatlogs.
Now if you get coutner DMCA, and there is a problem, then the leader of JLU needs to take them to court, and explain everything including how they illegally Stored Logs on a database, and everything instead of running your mouths off about how this is illegal and all that. I know how JLU works, and what they do ect, and I just wont be part of it. Yeah take them to court, Pay the fees for it for illegally counter filing your dmca, which happen to be very expensive.
$60 or more for delivering the papers, and probabily or possibly lots of money just for the transcripts Plus the Judge to hear your case. Then go for it, But be prepared for a war by all of us who stand against the illegal logging without our concent.
http://research.lawyers.com/How-and-How-Much-Do-Lawyers-Charge.html
So my advise, is just to drop it, Dont let people get your WIKI again, and stop illegally breaking the terms of service yourselfs, because its not worthit, as far as claiming copyrights over stuff, There is no proof of who owns what, and if you can, take it to a court or law real life if you wish to go that far.
Heinrich Soup
Apr 7th, 2010
The JLU being crazy wackjobs is a bit of an elephant in the room isn’t it?
Selkit Diller
Apr 7th, 2010
I find it very curious that the JLU (Through GreenLantern Excelsior) have not answered my inquiry about why they are monitoring the status of sims they ostensibly do not patrol, and have been declared patently unwelcome in…
Once again, GLE, I know you’re lurking/watching this topic from time to time, I’d like answers: Why is JLU monitoring the status of ANY FurNation sim at all?
The chair of the FurNation staff would like to know.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 7th, 2010
The monitors in the Watchtower are programmed to look at many different regions. If several regions under the same general category are offline, this could indicate a specific problem that deserves a heightened state of alert for the group.
That’s a general explanation of the monitors. Beyond that, JLU does not feel the need to provide justification to curious residents as to why we maintain various information displays. There are several different reasons why Furnation sims might be on the monitoring list. You will just have to use your own imagination to dream up whatever answer suits you best. Have a nice day.
Tux Winkler
Apr 7th, 2010
@ GLE
OMG Dude! Chill out, you are becoming a little Kalel (copyright Tux – as a replacement for the word EMO)!
“Beyond that, JLU does not feel the need to provide justification to curious residents as to why we maintain various information displays.”
- I would be asking why if one of my sims was in the list too. Although asking for it to be removed would be ignored, just as my wiki opt out was ignored – XD.
“You will just have to use your own imagination to dream up whatever answer suits you best. ”
- Actually, if you don’t explain then people will think the worst. It is a consistency humans have that is a ‘for certain’ attribute.
Unfortunately, I cannot log in atm due to yet another mysterious admin issue (/me sighs), but I am sure when I do get back in, I will be spammed about you all still.
/me prays to the God of mysterious admin issues (or outright helpdesk B/Sers) to help find a resolution.
Selkit Diller
Apr 7th, 2010
…So openly, you admit, that you will monitor other regions without justification, without cause, refuse to state why, despite the region’s staff chair having expressly told you and your lot that you are unwelcome?
Tell me something. You have just stated you are doing the rough equivalent of playing Iranian spy, around American interests, or vice versa. A group that is on very poor terms with you, and you are essentially monitoring their status.
As protectors, pure and righteous?
I believe I can firmly rest my case that the (Insert color here) Lanterns and JLU are little more than virtual Gestapo.
Selkit Diller
Apr 7th, 2010
PS; Just a little addendum on top of the rest of the article’s original statement regarding the GLC being welcome as ordinary residents in FurNation?
Statement rescinded. Act like a bunch of petty spies, get treated like ‘em. Use your alts; You likely maintain them anyways.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 7th, 2010
“So openly, you admit, that you will monitor other regions without justification, without cause, refuse to state why…” etc., etc.
The monitor is just a simple information display. It doesn’t remotely log your local chat, it won’t steal your Lindens, and JLU members won’t show up on your doorstep if your sim crashes. It’s nothing more than a generic indication of potential problems on the grid. Anyone can set up a display like that, showing whether a sim is starting up, online, shut down, or crashed. That’s not spying.
Selkit, JLU members don’t carry a grudge against furries or Furnation or you in particular. If you enjoy carrying a grudge against us, feel free to do so. It looks like there’s nothing we can do about it anyway. Take out your grudge, polish it up, and show it to everyone periodically so they will all know you still have it. Enjoy.
Selkit Diller
Apr 7th, 2010
” It’s nothing more than a generic indication of potential problems on the grid.”
Somehow, the fact that you monitor the status of sims that have declared your activities patently unwelcome, does not reassure me that you respect our desire to NOT be involved with you lot. That’s roughly comparable to one nation maintaining a border watch on the foreign side of an unfriendly territory. Do you know what they call the intervention that comes after?
Invasion.
You are unwelcome. Your monitoring is at best pointless, and at worst passively hostile. Do you not understand that harmless or not, this is NOT good for your image? This does not improve the reputation of a group which already is known for illicitly monitoring residents, intervening in sims above and beyond their private rules and as the original topic of this article shows, harassing the ownership of a sim over a difference of opinion about how the owner’s own sim should be run.
Damage control; It’s best when you’ve struck a mainline when digging, that you put the goddamn shovel down and look for a plumber, not a trenchdigger.
Corsi Mousehold
Apr 7th, 2010
As posted to Greenlantern and Kalel as of today:
The JLU and the GLC are not to set foot on FurNation soil. To do so will result in an immediate ban of any and all found members. Thus restriction will be lifted on the removal of the FurNation sim groups from the monitoring boards at the JLU. I want total separation from the JLU because of the treatment of that group. Kalel has stated in the past that he does not care for us and the feeling is mutual, yet he uses our land as an information platform for his own personal agenda. The monitoring while not actually on the sim, still pings the server it is on. This creates lag on the server and thus the sim. If it continues and proof of the removal of the sims from the monitoring program is not given, I will file Abuse reports against Kalel and the JLU in general for griefing in regards to the lag they are helping to cause from outside the residency.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 7th, 2010
If you guys are including the Green Lantern Core in your grudge because of me, you should know I’m not a member of that group. They don’t do any remote queries of the status of Furnation sims, so they don’t deserve to be included in your anti-JLU agenda.
There are many superhero groups in Second Life, and every one I’ve seen has members who are furries. Do you guys plan to implement a general ban on anyone wearing a superhero uniform in Furnation? What about the residents who live there? Will you implement a “no spandex” dress code? Inquiring minds want to know!
Selkit Diller
Apr 7th, 2010
That’s priviledged information. Much like the reason why you monitor a hostile territory despite having no legitimate authority to intervene even if you do see “troubling signs”. You are not Lindens, you are spandex fetishists with an authority complex. Furthermore? Why should we make any distinction between GLC and JLU? You’re all vigilantes with a god complex.
Mostly, though? JLU, GLC, same behavior, different pile. We’re hardly losing anything ditching a bunch of power-hungry cretins with a nuclear erection for enforcement and a figure workable in spandex only within virtual space. Cheers!
We
Apr 7th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“The monitor is just a simple information display. It doesn’t remotely log your local chat, it won’t steal your Lindens, and JLU members won’t show up on your doorstep if your sim crashes”
I think the point that you’re missing regarding the sim monitoring is that they’re not offended by the scripts that monitor sims themselves, that’s simple. It’s what the monitoring implies: That the JLU is still actively attempting to police and patrol the FurNation sims. Yes, you could monitor any sim remotely in that way, and no it doesn’t record chat or any such thing. But so far as I can see from that list, the only sims you have on there are sims the JLU actively patrols, mostly Linden owned sims where the owner isn’t likely to tell you guys to get lost. Now, if it had been a huge mix of sims, almost completely randomized, with a few furnation sims tossed in, I could see less cause for alarm on their part. But you have just about every single Furnation sim being monitored in addition to a number of sims you see as your “territory”, it says to them the same thing it says to me: the JLU intends to watch and patrol FurNation sims, despite being actively forbidden to do so.
“That’s a general explanation of the monitors. Beyond that, JLU does not feel the need to provide justification to curious residents as to why we maintain various information displays”
And there’s your problem. If the JLU wants to be a “public service” organization, then you need to serve the public, not your own interests. Spying on people, monitoring sims you’ve been kicked out of, and generally being completely no accountability is not the best way to go about this. I’ve already proven that the JLU is actively attempting to amass power wherever they can, Tux proved that there’s no opt-out of the JLU RP, and now you’ve proven that they’re not interested in justifying their suspicious and illicit activities, which means there’ll never be any sort of accountability for the JLU’s actions inside the group. Congratulations: the JLU is a full-blown griefer group that gets it’s entertainment on the expense of others.
“There are many superhero groups in Second Life, and every one I’ve seen has members who are furries. Do you guys plan to implement a general ban on anyone wearing a superhero uniform in Furnation? What about the residents who live there? Will you implement a “no spandex” dress code? Inquiring minds want to know!”
I think you’re purposefully being obtuse to make some kind of convoluted point. Obviously they’re not intending to ban superhero avs, they’re banning people who want to RP superheroes such as the JLU that pretend to be superheroes by playing SL Police, and doing so without the consent of the sim owners.
“If you guys are including the Green Lantern Core in your grudge because of me, you should know I’m not a member of that group”
I am curious about this, because I see you’re not a member of the main group of Green Lantern Core, but I notice you also wear a group tag that says something similar to “JLU/GLC” and are in like 8 other Green Lantern related groups, including one mainly full of JLU members and run by yourself. There are so many Lantern groups it’s easy to mix up who’s doing what, and it doesn’t help since that they’re all copyright violations to begin with, multiple groups can take the same name with slight variations, i.e.: “The Green Lanterns”, “Green Lantern Corps”, “Green Lantern Core”, “The Green Lantern Core”, and so on.
Corsi Mousehold
Apr 7th, 2010
@ GreenLantern Excelsior
The reasoning for the decision is this:
If the GLC is going to condone the actions of the JLU, then the offenses of the JLU are supported by the GLC as a whole. Your statements in rebuttal include:
“Do you guys plan to implement a general ban on anyone wearing a superhero uniform in Furnation?”
“What about the residents who live there? Will you implement a “no spandex” dress code?”
Allow me to clarify and make a few points of my own. People can pretend to be superheroes all they like. I can’t and won’t stop that. I have no issues with that. Nor do I have issues with some individuals in either group.
I would also like to point out that the two statements made above are generally the same types of statements that griefers use on a regular basis. When we ban people from groups like the Patriotic Nigras, they make statements asking if we are racist and ban black people (which of course we don’t) from our sims. You sir have made the same statement type by implying that we are banning because of your choice to portray a superhero which is also false.
You have chosen a path GreenLantern. You have chosen a path of support to those that have offended us.
We do not the JLU to ping the servers our sims reside on. It damages our sims and their ability to function. To do so is a denial of service attack on us and will be dealt with harshly.
I am not in the business of making bluffs here Mister Excelsior. I am in the business of providing a place for my community. Do as I ask and do not tell me no. My wrath is not one to be reckoned with and I will promise there will be consequences.
Have the pings stopped to the servers my sims are on. I will not ask nicely again as I am here.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 7th, 2010
Any resident can look at the SL map or use a scripted display to determine the online status of any region on the grid. No prior permission is needed, and it’s nobody else’s business, either. The controversy being created here is nothing but the standard load of drama that always seems to waft around this topic. I’m getting bored with it.
If you think there’s a plethora of superheroes in SL now, you ain’t seen nothing yet. The Harry Potter franchise is over, so Warner Bros. is looking for new movie subjects. Superman and Batman have had good runs, but there are plenty of other characters waiting. Justice League, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman have had animated movies released directly to DVD. There’s a live-action Green Lantern movie coming out in 2011, a live-action movie of The Flash in the works, and rumors of a new Wonder Woman movie. By this time next year, a griefer won’t be able to TP into a sandbox without bumping into three or four spandex-clad heroes, waiting with AR forms in hand. It will be a glorious time in Second Life history, and yours truly will be standing by to train each and every one of them. Buckle up, griefers, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!
We
Apr 7th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“Any resident can look at the SL map or use a scripted display to determine the online status of any region on the grid. No prior permission is needed, and it’s nobody else’s business, either. The controversy being created here is nothing but the standard load of drama that always seems to waft around this topic. I’m getting bored with it.”
Again, you’re completely missing the point that it’s not about the ability to see whether the sim is up, but the fact that the JLU have the Furnation sims among a list of monitored sims they specifically patrol. It’s basically the same as finding a document saying “These are sims that the JLU actively patrols:” and lists sims that they are supposedly banned from operating in.
You could have simply said that it’s been on there from when they did patrol it, and no one has bothered to take it off yet, or that it’s a misunderstanding and it’s going to be taken off. Instead you’re being obtuse and combative, claiming that your group can do whatever you want without any accountability, and claiming that “anyone can look at the map and see when sims are down”. They’re pointing at an object in the sky and you’re looking at their finger.
“By this time next year, a griefer won’t be able to TP into a sandbox without bumping into three or four spandex-clad heroes, waiting with AR forms in hand.”
Interesting, so you believe that anyone who wants to dress up or roleplay a superhero in Second Life will immediately turn into SL Police like the JLU? There are a number of Superhero RP sims where one can roleplay a superhero without forcing their roleplay on others like the JLU.
Most people can tell the difference between their roleplay and real actions anyways.
” It will be a glorious time in Second Life history, and yours truly will be standing by to train each and every one of them. Buckle up, griefers, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!”
Wow, when did you drink the crazy kool-aid?
Selkit Diller
Apr 7th, 2010
“Waiting with AR forms in hand”
So you’ll sit there, selfishly waiting to pounce on everything and everyone you perceive as against your creedo/interpretation of the SL TOS, in effect abusing the abuse report system itself by flooding it with three or four reports (Or more; I’ve seen how you lot operate, while attempting to work on a harmless physics machine in Goguen; This attracted four, while a fleet of copybotted cars for sale sat unmolested for hours).
Do you really, seriously think Secondlife needs some kind of volunteer Civic Informer Squad? That is not the behavior of superheroes, and generally, increased interest in superhero flicks will mostly result in the flavor of sandbox griefing briefly shifting from Yadni freebie guns to newbies with SuperPower HUD v9001.
What strikes me as the most telling thing, however, is your utterly cavalier attitude. You are not above any other resident on Secondlife, and at best, you’re simply a thug with an air of copyright-skirting stolen dignity. It’s delightful how you beat your chests about how DC/Marvel/whoever ‘approve’ of your shenanigans, but I can’t help but wonder how long they’d continue to approve looking at conduct like yours here, or conduct like that strewn through the entire wiki you lot so thoughtfully kept in secret.
Yes, I’ve read it. Please by all means, send a frivolous DMCA on the matter and see how far it gets you, if you care to. But you keep extensive, INACCURATE, and damningly scathing reams of frequently uprated, overhyped reports, then you have the gall to whine about ‘drama’ here when the chief of staff and the owner of a sandbox pairing wonder why you are monitoring the status of sims they have declared you specifically unwelcome in?
You are delusional. So vastly out of touch with reality it makes me wonder how much of your flighty mood can be attributed to medication flux, and clearly in flagrant violation of our statements that we want nothing to do with you lot. If you don’t “patrol our sims”, what do you care whether they’re up or down? The only answer that comes to mind is knowing when to send a masked alt by to skulk about filing ARs at anything that looks even remotely suspicious, much like a Blue Lantern did to Corsi directly after being told to sod off much the same way we have told you and your ilk time and time again to stay the hell out of privately managed properties.
You are a menace, a drain on resources, and a bloody daft, deranged individual who I sincerely hope will -never- handle a badge of authority or a firearm.
Tux Winkler
Apr 7th, 2010
@GLE
“By this time next year, a griefer won’t be able to TP into a sandbox without bumping into three or four spandex-clad heroes, waiting with AR forms in hand.”
- Alt abuse is against the TOS – or is this another misconception of the JLU: “it isn’t against the TOS when we do it”
- Seriously, just say your scripter left and noone else knows how to mod the code. Why make it another combat situation?
FFS, I am amazed how this hasn’t been laid to rest and TBH had the main sufferer of Kalel Syndrome come forward. Alot of this could now be resolved. I am glad I can’t get in ATM, if thisis all I have to look forward too!
K.T.D.
Apr 7th, 2010
@GLE: “By this time next year, a griefer won’t be able to TP into a sandbox without bumping into three or four spandex-clad heroes, waiting with AR forms in hand.”
Doesn’t have to just be spandex clad heroes. You already know where I stand and which side I am on on this one. If people want to play with things like cagers, spammers, etc, there’s places to do that. OpenSimulator comes to mind, as do private combat areas.
Rezzing avatar following clusters of primdicks in a PG-13 area is hardly just “playing around”, and I support your efforts.
@Selkit: “So you’ll sit there, selfishly waiting to pounce on everything and everyone you perceive as against your creedo/interpretation of the SL TOS, in effect abusing the abuse report system itself by flooding it with three or four reports”
LOL! Did you honestly just say that? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 8th, 2010
Holy shit, he lives.
Didja take a vacation or something?
Judge Joker
Apr 8th, 2010
@Corsi Mousehold
SL would not be the same without you <3, but your misunderstanding the same way I did, so please listen and try to understand.
I'm not defending them and it would seriously f*c$ me off if someone was checking on my Sims, of course some of them are yours and it's nice to hear you speak out about it.
They don't ping the server it's built into the second life server network, I believe the command in the script asks another server "not yours" perhaps some command server as to the status of your Sim on the internal network.
And it returns the information in the form of a status: up, down, restarting e.t.c. it should not effect your Sim unless it was an actual ping to the IP it's on, which would cause issues.
@Tux Winkler Kalel will never come forward, we can only smoke him out so even if your support and enthusiasm for the cause is waning, please don't try derail it, the conversation and issues have come along way.
@GLE I'm Surprised you came back did you go on holiday for Easter? that seemed to be a poor choice not to leave an I'm away message, I think some people other than me might have thought they had owned you.
“Any resident can look at the SL map or use a scripted display to determine the online status of any region on the grid. No prior permission is needed, and it’s nobody else’s business, either. The controversy being created here is nothing but the standard load of drama that always seems to waft around this topic. I’m getting bored with it.”
Your bored with it because you can't defend yourself or the JLU adequately, facts can't be faked and it's true any SL user can look at the map.
The map is a part of the Second Life service to be used when teleporting to determine what event's or land is available and how many people are in the simulator.
However any part of the second life service can be used to abuse others or be used for harassment and stalking, and this is the principle reason that we are still arguing with you.
Corsi and furnation admins and a large % of furries, have asked you and your companions not to enter furnation and continuing to monitor a simulator status is testament to standing outside someones house when you have been put on a restraining order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraining_order
The purpose of a scripted display to determine the online status of a simulator is for people who run services, and while it can be used by anyone you and the JLU are not a service, no matter how much you try to argue you are.
If you say your a public service one more time I will not hold back in anything I say on this blog, you think I been nasty so far? don't test me.
A public service serves the good of the community and while you and the JLU do clean up after some residents, hiding things in a wiki and calling up the data behind their back is testament to back stabbing.
Real public services are open, legal and have over sight and you have none of the above.
So you can't claim it's a necessary use for you to be checking, and as such the only other reason a person would use it would be to stalk or to watch other residents.
You say "No prior permission is needed" of course none is needed but if you use any script to abuse another resident in any form, we and Corsi have a legal right to report it as a TOS violation.
You have been restrained from entering their simulators, and you have no right to monitor them, you do not pay for them nor do you contribute a service to Corsi, no matter if I still think Corsi might have a cute spandex alt somewhere burred in the realm of fantasy.
If you want this to end approach Kalel Venkman and tell him to pack up, there's no shame in it because if you persist you will open yourselves to more legal nightmares than patrolling and enforcing a TOS is worth.
Ceiling cat is here and is watching you.
Mikael
Apr 8th, 2010
I had a run in with the jlu just yesterday in a public sandbox when a vechicle I was working on got away from me and went off world.
I was quickly informed that ” Blowing your objects all over the sandbox is an AR-able offense.” My response was ” unless your last name is Linden, get your demanding attitude out of my IM.” and muted the little freak. Like some fag boy in spandex is going to tell me what to do.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 8th, 2010
@ We
“Again, you’re completely missing the point…”
The point is that JLU configures our terminals in the Watchtower to monitor likely griefer targets, whether we patrol there or not. No one outside the group has a vote regarding what targets are monitored. While you are correct that I could have promised to fix it, that’s not going to happen now. My response to a polite request might have been different, but what I got was “Do as I ask and do not tell me no. My wrath is not one to be reckoned with and I will promise there will be consequences.” My answer to that is as follows:
No.
@ Selkit Diller
“…in effect abusing the abuse report system itself by flooding it with three or four reports…”
You should become familiar with the SL Knowledge Base article on abuse reporting, where LL states that if multiple people are affected, they want to see multiple reports. That article is what I train to, and that is how SL peacekeepers respond to griefer attacks.
“You are a menace, a drain on resources, and a bloody daft, deranged individual who I sincerely hope will -never- handle a badge of authority or a firearm.”
In my RL volunteer work I do wear a badge and a gun. Any other hopes I can dash today?
@ Gaara Sandalwood
“Didja take a vacation or something?”
Just a short vacation from this thread.
@ Judge Joker
“You say “No prior permission is needed” of course none is needed but if you use any script to abuse another resident in any form, we and Corsi have a legal right to report it as a TOS violation.”
If you believe you have witnessed a ToS violation, then you should write an Abuse Report. I can walk you through the process if you like.
“Ceiling cat is here and is watching you.”
Think of the kittens!
@ Mikael
“I had a run in with the jlu just yesterday in a public sandbox…”
What was the person’s name?
Corsi Mousehold
Apr 8th, 2010
Kalel’s Response:
[2010/04/07 10:53] Corsi Mousehold: As posted to GreenLantern Excelsior: The JLU and the GLC are not to set foot on FurNation soil. To do so will result in an immediate ban of any and all found members. Thus restriction will be lifted on the removal of the FurNation sim groups from the monitoring boards at the JLU. I want total seperation from the JLU because of the treatment of that group. Kalel has stated in the past that he does not care for us and the feeling is mutual, yet he uses our land as an information platform for his own personal agenda. The monitoring while not actually on the sim, still pings the server it is on. This creates lag on the server and thus the sim. If it continues and proof of the removal of the sims from the monitoring program is not given, I will file Abuse reports against Kalel and the JLU in general for griefing in regaurds to the lag they are helping to cause from outside the residency.
[21:27] Kalel Venkman: Feel free to file that one – you’ll have no way to verify whether we have or haven’t, and our detection has nothing to do with sim lag whatsoever.
[21:28] Kalel Venkman: Rather pointless to file an abuse report on something like that, really.
[21:28] Corsi Mousehold: You ping the server at a constant rate with the erver having to take the time to respond.
[21:29] Corsi Mousehold: That response is stress on the server the sim resides on and thus the sim itself.
[21:29] Kalel Venkman: We don’t ping your server at all. We just query the SL database.
[21:29] Corsi Mousehold: Are you now verifyiung that you refuse to cooperate?
[21:30] Corsi Mousehold: That is a yes or no question and does not require a lengthly answer.
[21:31] Corsi Mousehold: Are you now refusing to cooperate with my request?
[21:31] Corsi Mousehold: I want verification.
[21:32] Kalel Venkman: As we are doing nothing whatever to your sim(s), you have no complaint.
[21:35] Corsi Mousehold: So you are saying Yes you do refuse to cooperate. Correct?
[21:35] Kalel Venkman: I didn’t say that. I said that you have no complaint.
[21:35] Kalel Venkman: So there’s nothing to agree to.
[21:35] Corsi Mousehold: I have a complaint. I stated my complaint and the reason why.
[21:36] Corsi Mousehold: Evasion of the question is a refusal to cooperate.
[21:36] Kalel Venkman: You do not have a complaint, because your description of events is completely invalid.
[21:36] Corsi Mousehold: So unless you are afraid and know you are doing something wrong you would answer my question.
[21:37] Kalel Venkman: I have answered your question.
[21:37] Kalel Venkman: This is not how SL works. We query SL itself, not your sims.
[21:37] Kalel Venkman: It has no effect whatever on your regions.
[21:37] Corsi Mousehold: I will ask once more. This is a Yes or no question. Any other answer will be taken as a yes.
[21:37] Corsi Mousehold: Are you now refusing to cooperate with my request?
[21:38] Kalel Venkman: Your request is invalid, because you are requesting confirmation that we will stop doing something we were not doing in the first place.
[21:38] Kalel Venkman: We were not and are not employing any technology that lags your sims.
[21:38] Corsi Mousehold: Thank you for verifying you have refused to cooperate.
We
Apr 8th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“The point is that JLU configures our terminals in the Watchtower to monitor likely griefer targets”
So then the question is, why monitor it if you’re not allowed to go there and do any police actions? It’s entirely pointless and just adds to clutter and confusion.
In fact, if you have a new member, and apparently new members see this as Haruhi was invited there. They might look at this list of monitored sims, which for all point and purposes is a list of sims you actively patrol, and think it’s one that the JLU are allowed to operate in. They’ll then show up in the sim to try and do police work, get caught by one of the Furnation admin, and cause a whole ‘nother shit-storm of drama.
I notice throughout this that you have never denied the possibility that the JLU is still actively monitoring FurNation for the sake of patrolling it against the owners wishes.
“My response to a polite request might have been different, but what I got was “Do as I ask and do not tell me no. My wrath is not one to be reckoned with and I will promise there will be consequences.” My answer to that is as follows: No.”
And that’s one of the reasons why the JLU as a “public service” is a failure. The JLU has no accountability, no transparency, and no way to opt-out. If a real police organization messes up, there’s all kinds of outside official organizations sniffing around to look into and if possible fix the problem, if the JLU messes up, they try to cover it up or give an infantile, “Well you didn’t say please, so i’m never-ever going to take it down” response.
psychotic snake
Apr 8th, 2010
This whole thing is now a psychological battle. Not that it wasn’t a psyop before, but it looks like the DMCA thing has played itself out and the Herald is not going to make Venkman fall on his sword. This will come back to haunt them I believe.
Anyway, the whole twisted mystique surrounding some aging old man who is in Second Life playing with the little kiddies, trying to sound ominous with cop-like bullshit talk intimidating the regular folks in Second life, is wearing thin.
People have woken up to who the real Griefers are: JLU. Those people that the JLU now call griefers originally started giving the JLU hell as a push-back against the JLU heavy handed takeover years ago, just like all of you are right now. Think about that one.
At this point someone needs to simply start the “JLUO” group, or the JLU Ombudsmen, and then go where the JLU go, and AR the hell out of them every time they hassle someone in a sandbox. You can bet your AR will shed a different light on the situation than the clap trap coming out of the JLU flying monkeys.
And Corsi is right on this one, everyone should put AT LEAST Venkman and Excelsior in thier parcel BAN list right away. Add as many other JLU and GLC members as you need to start a party in your BAN list so Kalolcakes and his sidekick Green Butt Skunk dont get lonely in there.
Tux Winkler
Apr 8th, 2010
@ Judge Joker
“@Tux Winkler Kalel will never come forward, we can only smoke him out so even if your support and enthusiasm for the cause is waning, please don’t try derail it, the conversation and issues have come along way.”
- Not waning at all =)
- Being unable to log in is a pain though – XD
Selkit Diller
Apr 8th, 2010
“You should become familiar with the SL Knowledge Base article on abuse reporting, where LL states that if multiple people are affected, they want to see multiple reports. That article is what I train to, and that is how SL peacekeepers respond to griefer attacks.”
One notecarded notice, coming up shortly to the 3,000 strong community group in FN, 2,500 strong Ark group, and any number of other communities interconnected. Plus the admin staff themselves, as our only recognized legitimate peacekeepers.
I think you will find an AR flood somewhat different when it is the community annoyed with your actions here.
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 8th, 2010
“Just a short vacation from this thread.”
Well you sound a bit more hostile than usual. I hope we can still have that interview when I can get the time.
And Kalel seems as authority wielding as ever I see.
Corsi Mousehold
Apr 8th, 2010
@ GreenLantern
We tried to make this a simple request. We asked why and stated we did not want our sims monitored. If the following statement was true:
While you are correct that I could have promised to fix it, that’s not going to happen now. My response to a polite request might have been different, but what I got was “Do as I ask and do not tell me no. My wrath is not one to be reckoned with and I will promise there will be consequences.”
The work would have already been done as I did ask politely in private before. I was met with an argument and evasive behavior from both you and Kalel.
The first of many reports have been filed. I can continue to file more until, like you, the entirety of my community can file reports of this abuse from you.
K.T.D.
Apr 8th, 2010
@Corsi:
First off, I am NOT a member of JLU and have never applied to be one, but if Kalel is right, and the “monitoring” doesn’t actually touch the Furnation sims at all but instead queries SL itself…
Good luck. They won’t act just because someone is looking to see if your sim is online or not. You want them to stay out? That’s fine. They ARE your sims, and that is your right.
Filing a couple thousand ARs does not guarantee the Lindens will shoot blindly without investigating. If that were the case Skills Hak would have been gone from the grid a long time ago for the scam she’s running. She still should be for having copybotted JC Hill’s creations to chop them up and use them in an older version of her HVT bike created under the “Hax” surname among other things but that’s another issue, questioning why the Lindens allow her and her formerly banned friends to remain in world on alts when I have seen far more draconian behavior on their part. One that I don’t like the potential answers to one bit.
Are you sure this is even a fight worth showing up to, Corsi? I’ve been involved with the fandom for a long time. Long enough to remember what Furnation was before getting involved with SL, when if you wanted to see a notable artist’s work, chances are that would be a good place to find it.
What is Furnation’s relevance in the fandom today, outside of Second Life? Just a page in the history books. FA took over and did it better. Was there underhanded shit involved, as I’ve seen some sources allege? Maybe. Furries do more to hurt each other than the PN could have ever dreamed of, and the popular/influential ones are no better about it. In fact, they are far worse.
Maybe instead of focusing your energy on fighting with the JLU for knowing if your sim is up or down, you should direct it towards rebuilding the rest of Furnation so that it actually lives up to it’s former name?
Miss J
Apr 8th, 2010
why not just ban these douchers from your sims and let it be all over with
Tux Winkler
Apr 8th, 2010
@ K.T.D.
“They won’t act just because someone is looking to see if your sim is online or not. You want them to stay out? That’s fine. They ARE your sims, and that is your right.”
- Actually,I disagree. Remotely monitoring is nothing more than stalking (Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted attention by individuals, and sometimes groups of people, to others).
- Stalking and Bullying are amongst the biggest issues on the net. Linden Lab are quite proactive against these things.
- Without a valid, justifiable reason as to why the JLU are monitoring the listed sims then they will be (and are) deemed stalkers.