Corsi Mousehold: JLU Are Power Hungry Crazed Nutjobs
by Alphaville Herald on 09/03/10 at 12:38 pm
[Corsi Mousehold has been awarded the “commie” or comment-of-the-week award for her explanation of why the Justice League Unlimited superheros are not welcome in Furnation. The award winning comment is reproduced below. ]
Here’s a bit of a story. IN years past the JLU were a welcomed member of the FurNation community. They didn’t bother anyone and no one really bothered them. That was until we were under a griefer attack and the JLU came over to ‘assist’ and the first thing they did was report ME to the lab for griefing. They approached me and yelled at me for causing the issue. I asked them why they reported me of all people. By this time I had already deleted all the offensive material. They told me that I was the one putting it all out and they had seen me doing it. Basically they had watched me selecting objects to return them. They were extremely rude to me at the time and informed me that they would have reports go up on me. I contacted Kalel and he too said I was being reported and then for harassment as well. I was not rude to these people at all. It was several days later that I was contacted by Kalel informing me that the ‘charges’ had been dropped because they did not realize I was the sim owner. My response of course was to point to the info hub I had in the center of the sandbox that had my name clearly displayed as the sim owner and if his comrades had taken a moment to look they would have seen I was in the admin team.
He called me ungrateful and abuse reported me again. I was informed of this by him as well as he had several of his friends make the same report. All reports were dismissed by the GOV team as illegitimate. Soon I had JLU members ‘patrolling’ the sandboxes and abuse reporting anyone that they felt was disobeying my rules. They started to get several members of my community banned. I was forced to add a new sim rule that the JLU were not allowed in the sim for any reason. When they had seen this, I was reported again for griefing. Again the report was dismissed.
In the end I was approached months later by Green Lantern Corps asking if it was okay for them to be there. They apologized for the treatment the JLU had given me and asked if they would be allowed to just come and build.
Green Lantern Corps are allowed to visit and act if they wish. But they are not allowed to be in tag or act as a part of the Corps while visiting. If they are the subject of a griefing they are to come to me and I would take care of it. They can then file all the reports they like.
In the end the JLU are a bunch of power hungry crazed nutjobs that think being an SL Police force gives them the right to get away with whatever they want. The GLC on the other hand have always been very respectful to me and my residents.
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 8th, 2010
“The point is that JLU configures our terminals in the Watchtower to monitor likely griefer targets, whether we patrol there or not. No one outside the group has a vote regarding what targets are monitored. While you are correct that I could have promised to fix it, that’s not going to happen now. My response to a polite request might have been different, but what I got was “Do as I ask and do not tell me no. My wrath is not one to be reckoned with and I will promise there will be consequences.” My answer to that is as follows:
No.”
From what I’ve honestly seen, not to be a douche or anything, but from the looks of how this topic continued(you choosing to justify means with, in simple terms, attempts to calm down those who see a privacy problem with this, or just blatantly saying “Because we can”), you’ve had plenty of chances to respond to less hostile requests than that to stop monitoring sims you aren’t not wanted in by residents, but instead of saying yes, or even no for that matter, you chose to skirt around the main request until they finally got annoyed enough to say it forcefully, then finally noted it, claiming you would not because of the at that point hostile attitude.
Personally, if I owned a sim and you guys were monitoring it in this fashion, I wouldn’t care. I mean, I honestly don’t mind if you try to make a full several paragraph long page in the new wiki location about how you feel I’m a threat/griefer(if you guys do feel as such).
But they aren’t me. I’ve had only one run-in so far with your league, and was twice(perhaps even thrice)AR’d for an old pick in my profile negatively speaking of furries who whine for acceptance, or tell(other)humans they are superior to them(a pick that was made after a bit of grief in which a few of my friends were attacked in SL by a furry who kept trolling us until we muted him, and a pick that is no longer existent due to being removed to make room for others).
These are people whom you have seemingly constantly annoyed by patrolling their sim, even ARing Corsi off the bat without checking first to see exactly who Corsi was, and then after they made more than reasonable demands that JLU/GLC(and other Lantern Corps)only enter OOC, continued to send people to patrol.
You aren’t welcome anymore there, you cannot actively patrol there unless through alt abuse, and thus have little reason to even monitor the sim’s status.
Cut short, class is over, heading home.
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 8th, 2010
Okay, back.
Anyway, from the looks of it, it simply seems you’ve been asked before constantly about the subject, and skirted around it, only responding when it’s suitable for you.
I’m not trying to be a douche here, but hey, that’s what it looks like to us who are not JLU and in the know about pretty much anything you guys do to try and protect us.
K.T.D.
Apr 8th, 2010
@Tux:
Even if they did pull the in-world display, would it stop them from getting most of the same information by pulling up the map, or putting it on a private HUD that only a few trusted members were given? No. This is just pure drama, and an example of why I don’t like to hang out in furry sims on SL very much.
I can think of a justifiable reason off the top of my head why they would want to be looking at these sims to see if they are up or down. They’re a prime target for assholes who like to fuck up the grid. If a bunch of those go down or fuck up at the same time, then it might be a good idea to prepare to respond to sims where their presence is a benefit. After all, once the sim is down who is to say they will not attack another location?
In other words, I might not get along with one of my neighbors, but if I hear gunshots coming from his house, I’m calling it in and grabbing my gun in case the person doing the shooting comes my way. A little heads up that fuckwittery is afoot would be nice, you know?
As long as the system is not doing anything that causes it to communicate with Corsi’s sims, I don’t see a reason to be THIS pissed off.
Gundel Gaukelei
Apr 8th, 2010
Just in order to drive you wierd guys insane I will start monitoring those sims at random. And there is nothing, you can do about. Free ping for free ppl!
K.T.D.
Apr 8th, 2010
@gaara:”an old pick in my profile negatively speaking of furries who whine for acceptance, or tell(other)humans they are superior to them”
That’s another reason I don’t like dealing with most furries very much even though I have a fox AV as my primary form. They take it way too fucking far, and I’m mainly on SL because I want to look at some cool flashy shit, listen to my hardstyle music (Or spin it, cause I got the gear), build some cool shit, and be left the fuck alone. Too many of them don’t know when to just leave an argument with a douche bag trying to start some shit at a simple “Go Fuck Yourself.”.
And don’t get me started on that misanthropic bullshit about furries being better than humans. I’m not even going to begin saying how retarded that is.
Danziel Lane
Apr 8th, 2010
@KTD:
True, what they montior can even be seen on the map any time.
However…
let me compare it to RL.
Imagine, I can see into the window of my neighbour in the opposite building. And so can he. Sometimes, when we open the window, one of us might see the other in his home. When that happens, we wave, smile and are friendly with each other.
It’s like we look at the map and see the other one is online too and some green dots are there.
Now … one day it happens that my neighbour sets up a vidcam behind his window, monitoring my flat as good as he can through my window.
If asked, why he does that, he might at first answer: “I do that, because I can.” Should I accept that?
Later he might explain: I keep the vids only on my private computer. Should I accept that?
And a bit later again, he might tell, that he only shares the vids with some closest friend whom he trusts. Should I still be nice to him?
Maybe he is asked for a reason of his behaviour. And he might say: it’s for the neighbourhood watch. If some bad guys start annoying the neighbours from your flat, I would notice it.
And another neighbour called KTD would come and say: it’s a good thing to do, cause he would even notice guns shooting in your flat.
No, KTD, he wouldn’t. He would need a very special microphone besides that vidcam.
See, I can look into my neighours flat, when we both have the windows open or moved the curtains aside.
However constant monitoring by a device to report the lights on/off times, is nothing that I would like very much.
So like in RL I would say: monitoring the home of others who don’t want to be monitored is rude, impolite and stalking behaviour.
In RL after some tries to stop that, I would call for the authorities.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 8th, 2010
@ Tux Winkler
“Without a valid, justifiable reason as to why the JLU are monitoring the listed sims then they will be (and are) deemed stalkers.”
This reason was posted earlier. Furnation sims are griefer targets. If they’re offline, it could indicate increasing griefer activity that warrants a heightened state of alert.
Danziel Lane
Apr 8th, 2010
Hehe, knowing that, a nice idea comes to my mind:
Why not restart some of the sims – just for fun – at a time when you know that the main characters of those wannabe police groups make plans for bedtime.
Would keep them awake in their heightened state of alert.
Tux Winkler
Apr 8th, 2010
@ GLE
“This reason was posted earlier. Furnation sims are griefer targets. If they’re offline, it could indicate increasing griefer activity that warrants a heightened state of alert.”
- It is not a valid reason. Even if some griefer group was to crash the sim what has it got to do with you? After all you have been told to stay away. They have their own acting security with more power and authority than you!
- Lets suppose a flood of crashes happen, then what? What can you do? On the mainland sandboxes? How would you know who crashed it? Without estate powers you would be only guessing (and I have seen the JLU ARing their guesses before now)!
- A sim crash takes seconds, you wouldn’t know until it was too late!
- WTF is a heightened state of alert? Fresh undies (on the outside of course)? Or maybe a group ready to tp to the crashed sim for an AR party? Or in the case of FN, a group of alts?
- Seriously, why do you set yourselves up like this. You want to tread the righteous path, go to the welcome areas stand on a soap box, preach how SL is evil and full of sim crashing griefers, right a book, a good book, and pass the good book out to new comers so they too can see the light and maybe just maybe tread the path of the righteous!
Tux Winkler
Apr 8th, 2010
@ Danziel
“Why not restart some of the sims – just for fun – at a time when you know that the main characters of those wannabe police groups make plans for bedtime. ”
- It would serve them better than viagra!
We
Apr 8th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“This reason was posted earlier. Furnation sims are griefer targets. If they’re offline, it could indicate increasing griefer activity that warrants a heightened state of alert.”
So basically what you’re saying is, that the JLU is still actively intending to patrol the FurNation sims against 2 of the owner’s direct wishes now.
“Increased griefer activity” what the hell does that even mean? If a griefer attacks FurNation sims, they’re only interested in attacking FurNation, they’re not going to start moving to unrelated neighboring sims on the map like some deranged gunman.
What would “Heightened state of Alert” qualify as? If suddenly all the furnation sims crashed, what exactly would the JLU do? You can’t go to FurNation, and even if the griefers randomly decided to move from sim to sim, you’d not know where they’d hit next till after the sim crashed. Face it, there’s only two reasons why it’s still up: Incompetence or that the JLU is still interested in monitoring and patroling FurNation against the owner’s wishes.
I’ve still not seen you deny that the JLU are still patrolling FurNation, and the fact that you are being so combative about the JLU’s monitoring of their sims suggests that the reason it hasn’t been denied is because it’s true.
The JLU need to be able to patrol FurNation, because FurNation attracts griefers, and the JLU superhero roleplay depends on having “villains” to fight against.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 8th, 2010
@ Gaara Sandalwood
“Anyway, from the looks of it, it simply seems you’ve been asked before constantly about the subject, and skirted around it, only responding when it’s suitable for you.”
I finally responded when the issue was brought up repeatedly (similar to hearing “Are we there yet?” over and over from the back seat). The answer was “no.” Kalel confirmed that in an IM with Corsi last night. His answer is also “no.” And yes, I was getting a little annoyed, because while some folks love to wallow in drama and create more, I don’t like it.
@ Danziel Lane
“Imagine, I can see into the window of my neighbour in the opposite building.”
This is not a good example, because no one can see into Furnation from the outside. Here’s a better RL example, maybe. Everyone on my block leaves their porch lights on all the time. If the light is off, it means only one thing: the power to the house is off. Now and then I look out the window to see how many porch lights are on. If any porch lights are off, then I know I might lose power soon, so I grab a flashlight just in case it happens.
Now one day something is happening in front of my house, and the local newspaper sends a reporter and a cameraman to cover it. The next day there’s an article in the paper with a photo of the event. My house in the background of the photo, showing me looking out the front window. That evening, the lady from the end of the block comes running up to my house and bangs on my door. When I open the door, she starts waving the newspaper and shaking a finger in my face, screaming at me to stop looking at her porch light. No matter how I try to explain, she tells me that my eyeballs are sucking up her photons and making her light dimmer. Her sister is there with her, shouting that she is going to call the police if I don’t stop harassing them by looking at their light. I point out that anyone walking down the street can see the light too, but that doesn’t matter to her. She doesn’t care who sees the light as long as it’s not me.
That’s how silly this whole affair seems to me.
cyber stalking
Apr 8th, 2010
This is a clear case of cyber stalking. Venkman and Green Butt Skunk have been screamed at to STOP STALKING ME AND MY SIMS by Corsi and Venkman and Green Butt Skunk are saying that they refuse to stop… PROSECUTE THEM BOTH
Tux Winkler
Apr 8th, 2010
@ GLE
“This is not a good example, because no one can see into Furnation from the outside.”
- Yet you then explain how you was looking at a neighbours porch light?
We
Apr 8th, 2010
@Tux
“Yet you then explain how you was looking at a neighbours porch light?”
Yeah, he’s pretty much decided to ignore the real issue of this that I’ve repeatedly brought up and instead keeps trying to refute this ridiculous idea that Corsi mentioned that their monitoring is somehow lagging the sim.
The problem isn’t the monitoring itself, it’s what the monitoring implies.
But he hasn’t tried to refute that the JLU is still patrolling FurNation and has infact ignored all comments related to that.
So I’d say that’s pretty well proof that JLU has no opt out, and I’d advice Corsi and Selkit to watch out for suspicious alts snooping around the sim looking for trouble.
Yawn
Apr 9th, 2010
I think you all need to move the hell on with life and go outside.
Oh, wait, you can’t go outside. Perhaps the JLU are outside watching you where you live at. So we’ll sit back and keep rambling and being paranoid on the Herald as the JLU mouth piece talks back. Seriously people, grow the hell up and have a life.
PLAYA
Apr 9th, 2010
“Oh, wait, you can’t go outside. Perhaps the JLU are outside watching you where you live at”
They are…. GLE is watching my porch light. LULZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 9th, 2010
“This reason was posted earlier. Furnation sims are griefer targets. If they’re offline, it could indicate increasing griefer activity that warrants a heightened state of alert.”
“You aren’t welcome anymore there, you cannot actively patrol there unless through alt abuse, and thus have little reason to even monitor the sim’s status.”
Ahem…..
“I finally responded when the issue was brought up repeatedly (similar to hearing “Are we there yet?” over and over from the back seat). The answer was “no.” Kalel confirmed that in an IM with Corsi last night. His answer is also “no.” And yes, I was getting a little annoyed, because while some folks love to wallow in drama and create more, I don’t like it.”
Not mainly directed to you but I really hate it when people who bring up a lot of well thought facts/ideas/beliefs(etc.)are simply labeled as causing drama.
Now…….that is confusing. You finally chose to respond AFTER it was repeated muliple times, but why not right away? Also, ping or no ping, it was the sim owner’s(hint-hint)request that you stop monitoring them.
Now I’ve heard of sim owners doing whatever they want on their sim, but never have I heard of people who didn’t own a sim refuse a request pertaining to said sim made from that sim’s actual owner.
Spandex TV
Apr 9th, 2010
GOOD MORNING SEEKERS – and welcome to another morning of cartoons on Spandex TV – Today: In this morning’s episode, Wonder Woman has just found out the hard way that the JLU are really a band of griefers. She has decided to help a SIM owner fight their way into the JLU Headquarters to stop a diabolical Remote Monitoring operation that is causing the innocent SIM owner multiple problems. Massive fighting and hand-to-hand combat breaks out as Wonder Woman mops up the floor with multiple JLU members. This morning we blow off the mould and play the cartoon gold on Spandex TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vBRl_jT9z0
Danziel Lane
Apr 9th, 2010
@GLE:
“This is not a good example, because no one can see into Furnation from the outside. Here’s a better RL example, maybe.”
… maybe … thanks for this other example, cause it shows, what you want in the example and what should not be mentioned.
I had the migration from looking out of the window to an automatic device that scans and registers like those high performance devices in your HQs.
So, in your example, the photo in the news should not show you, but your device, directed to your neighbours house … which would make the complaints of the lady less silly.
If additionally she knows that you are a director of the PLWLU (porch light watching league united) and keep the on/off times of hers on your computer to show a close group of friends … hmmm, then she SHOULD complain
“If the light is off, it means only one thing: the power to the house is off.”
This “means only one thing” reminds me of “means only: griefers!”
Nope, bulbs of porch light have a live time of about 1000 hours. Porch light off can also mean: bulb is defective and needs to be replaced. Happens about 3 times a year.
With 10 neighbours you would run for your flashlight into an heightened state of alert about 30 times a year.
It’s like: sim is off, cause they restart it, getting a fresh ram space on their server and are well prepared for the next event.
“If any porch lights are off, then I know I might lose power soon, ….”
Well, you guye there should install fuses and earth leakage circuit breakers in your houses, which protect the neighbours from power loss after a shortcut in the area.
Almost all power losses don’t happen your way, but on the way of the power into your area. Well, as power runs with speed light, you must be REALLY fast to catch your flashlight to get it in time.
Power loss in one of the lights in the neighbours house seldom signals soon power loss for you, and if, there are only nanoseconds to react.
For the sims that means: a down sim seldom signalizes griefers (only for people to focus griefers and nothing else), and in the rare cases they do, you will be late, much too late.
You might say, those griefers change to another sim.
But that happens every minute. So, for which of the many thousands of sims do you need that heightened state of alert?
See? You make the lady looking silly and stupid and funny, cause you make her complain about you looking out of your window (looking at the SL map). But we are talking about an automatic device monitoring … and the lady doesn’t sound silly at all, if you installed that.
And if she also knows that you store all the data and what you thing about her porch light in your Porch Light Watch Wiki (PLWW) she should talk to the reporter to make such spy actions public.
“That’s how silly this whole affair seems to me.”
Well, if someone comes with a request “Please do not monitor my sim / porch light” and the owner of the monitoring device only finds that silly … ok, then communication is lost and all that stays is: “You silly guys don’t know what’s right or wrong. All are silly but me.”
No good base to offer protection services in a virtual world.
Selkit Diller
Apr 9th, 2010
Now that this whole matter’s evolved into a huge debacle, let me pull it all back into perspective here:
The monitoring is trivial. It in itself is really, almost a non-issue; If it were any other group, I really would not give a damn, and I’m sure out there, there’s someone with a nuclear erection against FN, and monitoring devices they furiously wank over whenever it goes down. Or maybe they have a strange fetish for green lights going red.
This is not the case here; It’s a trivial monitoring system being used as a symbol by a group which has proven time and time again that despite being self proclaimed protectors, they have absolutely no interest in making their protection optional, have gone so far as to harass ownership of our sims in their own sim, then have the gall to abuse report that owner for being told to sod off, and even log it to their Super Secret Clubhouse Wiki (Nice leak, guys).
In this case, it’s shifted from “that eccentric geek next door with a porchlight fetish” to “That asocial psychopath with a restraining order obsessively training a camera on the porch light”.
There’s really honestly nothing I can actually do about it, save that it’s made clear what this implies for your image, JLU: You are not knights in shining armor, you’re a group of common thugs under stolen intellectual property. I am in representation of only one group on the Secondlife grid, but I communicate, and others do read these comment listings. Among the trollpostings, the overreactions, and the other fluff drama that usually arises in these situations, one simple fact remains.
You’re being amazingly irrational, and for a grown man, I’d have expected a better response than “I’mma take mah ball ‘an go home!” from you, GLE. Grow up and polish your image. At one point in time, I actually assumed the JLU was attempting to do something right, even if in a slightly misguided fashion. Now? Spies, monitoring, information leaks and maskirovka? Ooh, I get it. It’s a letter substitution cypher. GLE, KGB?
We
Apr 11th, 2010
Looks like that’s it for this round, as GLE has run off again managing with astonishing effort to entirely ignore the real point the whole time.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 14th, 2010
This is pretty much a dead horse now, isn’t it? Or did someone want to beat on it some more?
IntLibber Brautigan
Apr 14th, 2010
GLE, you’re the cop. Isn’t the rule to keep on kicking until the prisoner isn’t moving or making any more noise?
We
Apr 14th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“This is pretty much a dead horse now, isn’t it? Or did someone want to beat on it some more?”
Well Selkit brought up an honest point asking why the JLU were monitoring the FurNation sims if they had no intent to patrol, especially since the list of sims you’re monitoring are all patrol sims. You made some infantile “you didn’t say please so i’ll never do it!” comment then went on to completely ignore the point in favor of talk about the monitoring itself and it somehow lagging FurNation, then turning it into a giant weird analogy about porch lights before disappearing after the talk got back on rails again.
The question is, why is the JLU monitoring sims they are not allowed to patrol? This isn’t about the monitoring itself, that’s simple and silly, but rather that list of monitored sims is like a list titled “Sims the JLU patrols” and you’ve got a number of FurNation sims on there. If you aren’t allowed to patrol them, why are they on there still?
The closest you’ve given for an answer to this is that if the furnation sims goes down, it’s an indication of further griefing. But that concept is silly, as griefers only are interested in attacking one target in terms of private sims, they don’t spread out and attack unrelated neighboring sims.
And even if they did, if you’re sitting in the Watchtower watching the monitors and all of Furnation starts going down, what does the JLU do? What CAN they do? You say “get ready” but what does that even mean? You can’t even be sure if it’s griefers, or if the admin are just doing rolling restarts of FurNation. You can’t go to FurNation, and even in the rare event that the griefers started spreading to other sims, you wouldn’t know where they were, what they were doing, or who they were until the new sim they attacked went down, and even then by the time the sim came back up and you got there, they’d likely be all gone if they’re sim hopping.
It has no reason to be up there still, and it’s likely to cause confusion with any new members you get, who will go into that room, see that Furnation is being monitored, and assume it’s okay to go there in full costume and boss people around, risking the chance of getting caught by an admin and causing further drama and distrust for your group.
So honestly, I see only two reasons that the Furnation sims are up there still: Incompetence: in not taking them off the list after the group was banned from Furnation, or that the JLU still intends or actively does patrol Furnation against the owner’s wishes likely as hidden alts.
These are all the real questions about this whole thing that you’d so far managed to ignore.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 14th, 2010
Q: “The question is, why is the JLU monitoring sims they are not allowed to patrol?”
A: “The closest you’ve given for an answer to this is that if the furnation sims goes down, it’s an indication of further griefing.”
You answered your own question, or, actually, you provided the answer I had already given to the question that had been asked several times before.
“And even if they did, if you’re sitting in the Watchtower watching the monitors and all of Furnation starts going down, what does the JLU do?”
There are all kinds of things we could do. We could make a preliminary callout on the group channel, asking everyone to stand by for possible action. We could ask everyone to report to the Watchtower to check that their equipment was all working. We could dispatch people to different sims that are standard griefer targets. We could make notifications to sim owners so they could have time to prepare. We could notify the leaders of other peacekeeper groups who might be likely to respond. Or we could take no action at all.
“So honestly, I see only two reasons that the Furnation sims are up there still: Incompetence: in not taking them off the list after the group was banned from Furnation, or that the JLU still intends or actively does patrol Furnation against the owner’s wishes likely as hidden alts.”
“…if the furnation sims goes down, it’s an indication of further griefing.”
Danziel Lane
Apr 14th, 2010
Who trusts a cop who takes just one row out of a nicely put together row of arguments, and ignores that the meaning of the complete text is just the opposite to what the cop pretends to have heard?
GLE, there were times, when I read your comment cause they were thoughtfull, well written and you listened to the others. Though I did not agree, your comments were useful for the try to understand your side.
Lately you act like any griefer: just making fun of making people angry by ignoring what they told you. Like any griefer, you always do the same, no new thought, no interest in other people.
If you were a real keeper of the peace, you would deescalate, not escalate.
Tux Winkler
Apr 14th, 2010
I agree with Danziel – I found you quite well thought out and logical. Now, you sound more like Kalel with his super selective hearing abilities.
Are you sure you haven’t handed your account info over to him??
We
Apr 15th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“You answered your own question, or, actually, you provided the answer I had already given to the question that had been asked several times before.”
I also said directly afterwards that the concept of it being an “indication of griefing” is silly, and spent the rest of the post defending my reasoning for that, with points you seem to have entirely ignored in favor of a few snippets that you seem to think suits your position.
“There are all kinds of things we could do. We could make a preliminary callout on the group channel, asking everyone to stand by for possible action. We could ask everyone to report to the Watchtower to check that their equipment was all working. We could dispatch people to different sims that are standard griefer targets. We could make notifications to sim owners so they could have time to prepare. We could notify the leaders of other peacekeeper groups who might be likely to respond. Or we could take no action at all.”
Let me point out again, that all you know if the sims go down is that they went down. You have no idea why they went down, who knocked them offline, how they were knocked offline, and if they were even knocked offline by griefers. The admin could be doing rolling restarts of the sims, LL could be rolling the entire grid, hell the monitors might be acting goofy in themselves.
What’re you going to tell people, “Be on the look out for anything?” Isn’t that what you do anyways: float around “high risk” sims and look for anything that might vaguely be considered griefing? How is this a heightened state of alert? Are you going to inform some network of sim owners of “impending griefers” despite no actual proof that griefers have actually attacked anything or are likely to attack anything else? It seems such actions would only serve to peg the JLU as the boy who cried griefer.
You also failed to address the other point, that the Furnation sims are currently in a list of what could reasonably seen as synonymous for “Sims the JLU actively patrols”. The upper echelon of the JLU may understand that they aren’t allowed there, but what about the recruits and the lower level people? They go into that room, see that the Furnation sims are down, reasonably assume that these are sims they’re allowed to patrol in, teleport into the sim in full costume and run smack into Corsi and Selkit who are none pleased by this and see it as a reflection of the JLU as a whole; thereby sparking another incident.
Is the JLU’s feelings so hurt that they weren’t asked politely to remove the monitoring for FurNation with a “pretty please” that they’ll risk another incident rather than suck it up and pretend to be a public service organization for a change?
Tux Winkler
Apr 15th, 2010
LOL @ We
GLE posts to the ANN ‘All superhero’s be on the look out for sim owners restarting their sims – could be a sign of the impending doom!’
Too funny!
IntLibber Brautigan
Apr 15th, 2010
Tux, thats right. As an example of their narrow myopic view, when I converted some homestead sims back to a full sim in another location, just because the JLU had falsely abuse reported and gotten banned one of my residents, they assumed and claimed in their wiki that LL had taken that one sim, out of the many I owned, for “harboring griefers”. Did they try to find out the real facts? No, they didn’t. GLE could have, as he and I were still on ok terms even though Kalel and the rest of the horde were banned from my estate.
Selkit Diller
Apr 15th, 2010
GLE, if you had even read my prior comments regarding who we permit to “keep the peace” on our sims, you will find something very interesting:
We don’t tolerate “peacekeepers” at all outside our own staff. SL cops are asked to title down, disarm, and act like any other SL resident, Lantern corps (After seeing that they DO post to your Brainiac wiki; The entire incident with Corsi telling one off for trying to do precisely what they have been told they are not welcome to do is in the leaks) are unwelcome period, and all other police groups? Here. Because you’ve been so selectively literate:
UNWELCOME.
There, you have it all capitalized, in plain sight. Self proclaimed protectors outside the bounds of the FurNation admin staff are entirely unwelcome, and you lot have no reason whatsoever to monitor us. We ban wannabe “cops”, because frankly, it’s insulting to the real law enforcement personnel who have *FUN* on our staff NOT policing. Key words: “Not policing”.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 15th, 2010
@ Danziel Lane
“Lately you act like any griefer: just making fun of making people angry by ignoring what they told you. Like any griefer, you always do the same, no new thought, no interest in other people.”
No new thought. That’s the point I was trying to make earlier. “We” asks some questions, then answers them, and finally comes to a conclusion. The questions were asked before and I anwered them. Now they’re asked and answered in the same post with no need for my participation at all. The thread has become self-perpetuating.
@ We
“I also said directly afterwards that the concept of it being an “indication of griefing” is silly, and spent the rest of the post defending my reasoning for that, with points you seem to have entirely ignored in favor of a few snippets that you seem to think suits your position.”
You’re entitled to your own opinion. You seem to think it’s silly to have monitors in the Watchtower that display the status of griefer-prone sims. At this point it’s fairly obvious that no one can convince you otherwise, no matter what they say. I believe at this point that we can conclude that we disagree about the usefulness of sim status monitoring.
“You also failed to address the other point, that the Furnation sims are currently in a list of what could reasonably seen as synonymous for “Sims the JLU actively patrols”.”
Let me address that by reiterating that JLU does not patrol in Furnation. Just because some floating text in the Watchtower says “Furnation” doesn’t mean there’s a JLU member in that sim. There is nothing reasonable about such a conclusion.
“The upper echelon of the JLU may understand that they aren’t allowed there, but what about the recruits and the lower level people?”
The recruits understand it too. We train them, and we take them out on patrol to give them experience. That hypothetical situation would not happen.
@ Intlibber
“Did they try to find out the real facts? No, they didn’t. GLE could have, as he and I were still on ok terms even though Kalel and the rest of the horde were banned from my estate.”
I didn’t see you very often after I left the Merczateers. I belong to an organization you dislike, so I suppose any attempt to ask you about your personal status could have been seen as spying or worse.
@ Selkit Diller
“GLE, if you had even read my prior comments regarding who we permit to “keep the peace” on our sims, you will find something very interesting:
We don’t tolerate “peacekeepers” at all outside our own staff.”
Since this fact has been stated several times, including in Corsi’s original post, I don’t see that it’s interesting any more. Your mileage may vary.
We
Apr 15th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“You’re entitled to your own opinion. You seem to think it’s silly to have monitors in the Watchtower that display the status of griefer-prone sims. At this point it’s fairly obvious that no one can convince you otherwise, no matter what they say. I believe at this point that we can conclude that we disagree about the usefulness of sim status monitoring.”
Yes, I’m entitled to an opinion. I also defended my opinion with logic, this is called having a debate. If you’re suggesting that “It’s impossible to convince me otherwise” after not even bothering to acknowledge my points much less give a counter-argument, then jeez you give up quick.
I don’t think it’s silly to monitor griefer-prone sims, I think it’s silly to monitor griefer-prone sims your whole group is banned from.
“Let me address that by reiterating that JLU does not patrol in Furnation. Just because some floating text in the Watchtower says “Furnation” doesn’t mean there’s a JLU member in that sim. There is nothing reasonable about such a conclusion.”
Let me break down the logic for you, because I feel you’re failing to understand some important part of the reasoning here.
You have a list of sims being monitored in that Watchtower. Every single sim monitored on that list (assuming that the list was made before the JLU were banned from Furnation) is a sim the JLU patrols (or patrolled at one point). The sims are monitored for the sake of knowing when griefing is happening so members can show up in the sim and file ARs and such, and I’ve already made my points as to why monitoring a sim that you can’t enter is somewhat pointless.
So the fact that the sims are still being monitored for status after the group was banned from there suggests to me that it’s still being actively patrolled, and the fact that you and Kalel seem so sternly adamant about absolutely not removing it seems to back up that line of reasoning.
“The recruits understand it too. We train them, and we take them out on patrol to give them experience. That hypothetical situation would not happen.”
Just like SL Mentors never lorded over people with their perceived sense of power, WriterofPoetry Oceanlane never commands people in Sandboxes, and the JLU’s defenses are so impenetrable that the group could never be infiltrated, right?
The point is, you’re creating an opportunity for a problem, there’s no reason to have it up, the owners of the sims want it down, it’s not hard to take off the list, and there’s a potential confusion issue in having it up that could lead to further drama. Yet you and Kalel absolutely refuse to remove it, I find this very perplexing, and you’ve made no real attempt to defend it’s existence.
“No new thought. That’s the point I was trying to make earlier. “We” asks some questions, then answers them, and finally comes to a conclusion. The questions were asked before and I anwered them. Now they’re asked and answered in the same post with no need for my participation at all. The thread has become self-perpetuating.”
Are you serious? I asked a question, I predicted what you’d say (correctly it seems), then I pre-emptively argued that point. You seem to have stopped reading my post after I said ” it’s an indication of further griefing”, or at least failed to comprehend how I then went on to suggest that such an idea was silly and explain point by point why.
IntLibber Brautigan
Apr 15th, 2010
GLE:
It’s not “spying” to ask me questions directly. I have always been open with people who come to ask me questions. Only once have I deferred answering for security reasons, and that was Prokofy when she wanted to know what I was up to with Woodbury. I would have told her if she’d agreed to talk off the record, but she refused that.
It would have been far better if you had spoken to me, and corrected the wiki, than for me to have to spend time dealing with many residents who had been fed utter BS by some JLU drone who took whatever was in the wiki to be Kalel’s own truth. I’ve even had to deal with Lindens who came to me, believing the BS in your wiki about me. Fortunately for me, when that happened, I’d invite them to check the server logs, and even Agent Linden’s investigation report on me. Of course, Jack never believed Agent Linden’s conclusions. He’s too self absorbed in his own agenda for SL, and knew I opposed his whole fascist agenda.
A lot of people have been told a lot of bullshit around SL about me, about my business, and about Woodbury, and that widespread defamation by JLU members contributed to the collapse of my business. You could have done something about it, but didn’t. Own that.
Judge Joker
Apr 15th, 2010
@GLE
If I remember correctly your so called leader or friend or group associate Kalel told you all not to come here and post, and in disobeying him it pretty much proves he has no control over his group members or groups with association and access to the secret wiki of disreputable information.
It would also help prove that Kalel refusing to stop monitoring a SIM, where he has agreed publicly not to patrol, is just him being two faced and giving opportunity to other members who don’t listen to him or obey his leadership commands to extend into those areas while holding a position of “well they disobeyed me, it’s not my fault”.
The issue that we know of with the “Batman wannabe” being ejected from the group due to aggressive behaviour and bullying of group members, stands out as a platform to assess the kind of weak leadership he is capable of providing, no self respecting good leader would put up with that behaviour in his group for long, especially with a group that require well behaved and moral individuals who say they are serving the community it’s a bad cop methodology.
So we can accurately Judge by the time it took Kalel to confront him and decide to remove him from the group, on how well his leadership stands, for this he would get an F.
If you consider it such a dead horse why do you continue to help flog it? after I read what you said just the words “Dead Horse” convinced me the issue is not within the issue but within your entire group that is dead brained perhaps ironically like how Tux showed us with the Zombie Superhero posters, when he was out canvassing for support against the JLU.
I am also convinced that at first your true motive for being here within this issue was to gain support for your group taking over from the JLU, the “power vacuum” issue and so I am glad to read that those here whom once respected you have the balls to call you out on it, and glad to see you showed your true colours in asking for powers and trying to provide evidence that your group is better than Kalel’s based on the reputation you hoped you had progressively portrayed on this website.
@IntLibber Brautigan
The Internet contains allot of disinformation and rumor and I have met many people who are against you or have felt burned by you for some act, but I would not judge you at all based on actions not against me directly because that would be idiotic and be taking rumor for fact, just like the JLU do on a daily basis but i’m not stupid and would always cover my ass.
We can look at Corsi as an example whom I have witness directly taking twisted rumor for fact Corsi’s is a game of Chinese whispers you can’t Judge someone based on Chinese whispers dig for all the facts then start yelling at people buddy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers
That said you are right in saying that every piece of disinformation against you is an act of widespread defamation, and due to the TOS stating that Linden Labs can’t be held responsible for the actions of other residents I would only assume you would have to take the source directly to court, I think you would have a case but I’m no Judge I just use the name here for this short time to remind Kalel hes being publicly Judged and we’re all laughing at him.
Just like Ceiling cat we’re all watching, we’re all Judge Joker but please stick to your own names
it’s less confusing than if we have 20 people stand up doing the “I’m Spartacus!, No, I’m Spartacus!”
@Tux I would like a copy of that zombie poster because it’s a peace of history, could you post it on the jlu.sl4.me so we all can have a copy please? maybe under a campaign posters tab?
Tux Winkler
Apr 15th, 2010
@ Judge Joker
I didn’t create the poster, but another frequenter of the Herald did. If it is passed onto me via email I will try to add it. I didn’t and do not upload or maintain the site, but I know enough to add a historical page if I cannot get the (re)creator to do it faster.
I do have a copy inworld but as yet I am still refused permission to connect. As are my alts. But if I get chance I will grab it.
In fact with all that is happening and said, it would be a bit of a giggle if it allowed people to add to it. I will find a way to chat to the creator.
We
Apr 16th, 2010
@Judge Joker
I made the billboard for the sandboxes, I’d give you one but I don’t know your name.
I made them part as a protest and part as an experiment: to make something as ToS applicable as possible, but Anti-JLU and see if their AR Parties would result in them getting removed.
The result was yes, I was AR Partied by the JLU for it 3 times, and suspended 3 times. Each time I modified the sign to change what I was Suspended for, and each time I got a new suspension anyways.
The first for putting up a link to the JLU wiki (On Tux’s website) being a “disclosure” violation, which set a precedent for disclosure being bannable even if it’s not in SL. I disputed this and LL came back saying it was a just suspension.
I took down the link and had a link to the Second Life Herald instead, one that had no disclosing material in it whatsoever. I was suspended for disclosure again, LL seemed to think it was a repeat of the first one (proving they don’t look very closely at abuse reports), I disputed it and pointed out it was different and there was no disclosing material. LL sat on it for about a week then quietly closed the ticket with no response, no way to reopen it, and no notification that they had closed it.
Then I took out the links altogether and just had the sign itself. Which was a picture of a DC comics title of the Bizarro Justice League Unlimited, and the text “The JLU spies on you” (Note that there’s no actual link to the Justice League Unlimited second life group, I could be referring to anything at this point). I was AR Partied again by Kalel’s thugs and Suspended for “Defamation”.
So the experiment overall showed that a.) the JLU will attempt to ruthlessly shut down any negative press against their group, even if it’s not violating the ToS, and b.) that the AR Parties are successful in pushing through illegitimate abuse reports.
IntLibber Brautigan
Apr 16th, 2010
We,
Evidently, contrary to the claims of some others, JLU AR’s are not being roundfiled by everyone at LL. Likely most Lindens roundfile them if they see them, but JLU supporters like Harry, Plexus, and other former G-Team holdovers likely get IMs from JLU folks that AR’s are incoming so that they can watch for them and grab them as they come in to give them special treatment.
I don’t know if JLU support has been deprecated officially/internally at LL. If it is and some G-Team holdovers are persisting in accepting their baseless ARs, you could potentially abuse report the Lindens who are not roundfiling them.
I would encourage you to write a letter to Marty Linden, LL Chief Counsel, citing Marsh v Alabama as representing your right to free speech in a company owned community. If he comes back with the AOL case, you should note that the AOL case only covers commercial speech (i.e. spam) which is much more restricted in its 1st amendment protections.
We
Apr 16th, 2010
@IntLibber Brautigan
I only saw two Lindens specifically respond to it. Teagan Linden was sniffing around the first one after their AR Party, I imagine they directly IMed her, she’s listed in the JLU wiki as “JLU friendly” and “one of two Lindens ever to be given a Brainiac terminal, the other being Plexus Linden.”
The other was Arch Linden, who returned the sign the 3rd time around, he’s not mentioned in the JLU wiki at all so far as I can see.
I’ve heard that they were trying to cut relations to the JLU or something at LL, but I’d never seen any proof of this.
“I would encourage you to write a letter to Marty Linden, LL Chief Counsel, citing Marsh v Alabama as representing your right to free speech in a company owned community”
No thanks. For one, I don’t care that much to pull the legal card and for two, I think their right as a private business to deny service to anyone they want for any or no reason, so long as it isn’t prejudiced trumps my right to free speech on SL.
Tux Winkler
Apr 16th, 2010
Teagan is Ok, I have known her since she was a n00b. Never had a problem with her.
Plexus and I have a hate hate relationship and he to this day prevents my accounts logging on.
Arch I have not dealt with.
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 16th, 2010
I should try this as well. I have a pic I uploaded before of a bunch of random heroes in a pub, with Batman looking back like “what’re you looking at?” and Wonderwoman dumping beer on Superman’s head in a drunken stupor.
Or just choose some other random image, put it up in a sandbox, and see what happens.
We
Apr 16th, 2010
I guess that completes another game of “Watch GreenLantern Excelsior completely avoid the point then disappear
”
@ Tux
You can’t log in because of Plexus? Why’s that?
@Gaara Sandalwood
I’m sure you’d get similar results if you did something similar to what I did. I spent some time standing around on the sign I put up (I generally only had 1 at a time, no more than 1 a sim). And I would see them pop up, they’d come in, float around near the sign staring at it for a few minutes, then they’d leave. Not one of them would IM me to ask me about it (I even tried to IM Kalel when he came, but I got ignored). When they did IM me, it wasn’t conversational, it was just them trying to command me to remove it.
I also noticed that it wasn’t just the JLU who did the AR Parties, but lots of JLU related groups like the Lantern Alliance. That may be one way they’re avoiding “round filing” in AR Parties. The Lantern Alliance is made up of these groups:
-Blue Lantern Corps
-The SL Indigo Lantern Corps
-The Star Sapphire Core
-The Green Lanterns
-White Lantern Corps
All of which (or almost all of which) are run and owned by someone either in the JLU or connected to it.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Apr 16th, 2010
@ Judge Joker
“If I remember correctly your so called leader or friend or group associate Kalel told you all not to come here and post…”
Interesting, where did you come up with this information?
“…and in disobeying him it pretty much proves he has no control over his group members or groups with association and access to the secret wiki of disreputable information.”
JLU is not a military organization like some other groups, and Kalel is not the Commanding Officer or the King. The other officers appreciate that I take the time to post here so they don’t have to.
“I am also convinced that at first your true motive for being here within this issue was to gain support for your group taking over from the JLU, the “power vacuum” issue and so I am glad to read that those here whom once respected you have the balls to call you out on it, and glad to see you showed your true colours in asking for powers and trying to provide evidence that your group is better than Kalel’s based on the reputation you hoped you had progressively portrayed on this website.”
This has me intrigued. I’m in a group that’s trying to take over JLU? What group is that?
Gaara Sandalwood
Apr 16th, 2010
Well I’ll try it anyway. I got some free time I can use my alt while I’m busy on my main.
I wanna see if I’ll be AR partied and what the results would be.
Tux Winkler
Apr 16th, 2010
@ We
I am on a suspension of all accounts pending investigation after a cryptic conversation with him. Seems this will go on until all my resources are reclaimed.
I am guessing I should not have asked him if he had a JLU member in him as we spoke!
We
Apr 17th, 2010
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“Interesting, where did you come up with this information?”
According to “The Fray”, at the very bottom it reads:
“Just a reminder, for those who haven’t been apprised, that due to the editorial policy of the Second Life Herald, we have a “no comment” policy regarding them. We respectfully will decline any and all requests for interviews and will not answer any questions directed to any members in the field by Second Life Herald reporters.”
Kalel even has a smugly ironic comment after that about how much it’s working to lower JLU’s bad publicity. Unfortunately for Kalel, the only way to truly cut down on bad publicity is to stop acting badly, not just to hide it better.
I also enjoyed the apparent fan-fiction by JLU member Samantha Lowell that was proudly posted on the Wiki, involving her insulting and attacking an otherwise placated fictional Second Life Herald reporter, while at the same time denying questions that turned out to be true (like Plexus’ status with the JLU and him attempting to vet the JLU with powers above and beyond normal residents: it seems even in fiction the JLU can’t help but lie and insult).
I especially enjoyed how Samantha also made light of the late Nikola Shirakawa’s death, stating “unfortunately Nikola Shirakawa is very much alive.” Wonderful that you wished real death on a person because of what they did in an online game, I bet you guys were just ecstatic when it came true huh?
And you wonder why the JLU gets so much bad publicity.
P.S.: Still waiting for an actual answer to my questions, or are you still in denial mode?
We
Apr 17th, 2010
@Tux
“I am on a suspension of all accounts pending investigation after a cryptic conversation with him. Seems this will go on until all my resources are reclaimed.”
Jesus, now THAT sounds like something to contact that legal department that IntLibber was talking about, because that’s a massive abuse of power. I guess he really learned from the JLU well.
Tux Winkler
Apr 17th, 2010
@ We
I am not really that bothered. I was hitting a stale point anyways. The summer is coming and RL is busy again. I have prevented payments from my cards so I guess I will either be let in or perm banned for non payment.
Crazy eh? XD
We
Apr 18th, 2010
@Tux
Too bad, I think you could really go after Plexus (and in consequence the JLU) for that, if he’s making highly biased bans with no actual violation in the name of the JLU.