The Artemis Fate Interview: Justice League is Unnecessary and Overzealous
by Alphaville Herald on 18/09/11 at 8:34 pm
Longtime SL resident asks Linden Lab for statement on anti-griefer groups' limits
by Robble Rubble
[In Robble Rubble's exclusive interview with Artemis Fate, Ms. Fate - a respected class-of-2003 resident - points out that the Justice League Unlimited and similar anti-griefer vigilante groups are superfluous and attract exactly the sort of behaviors they claim to fight. She goes on to ask Linden Lab for a statement on exactly what is fair game for the vigilante groups and what should be off limits. - the Editrix]
Artemis Fate
Robble Rubble: So you've been on the grid a long time, can I ask what brought you to Second Life?
Artemis Fate: I used to be on Active worlds a little bit, I had came across it in the summer of 2003, but it was pretty rough then and I looked over it. Decided to try it in October of the same year and ended up getting really into it. Been around ever since.
Robble Rubble: Very nice, that's a long history on the grid. Can you give some insight into it? What sort of things do you spend time doing? What projects do you work on? What's your biggest accomplishments or even failures? Do you like long walks on the beach?
Artemis Fate: Insight into the history of the grid? It's changed rapidly while at the same time staying much the same. I used to be a builder, but I haven't done much in a while, due to moving from college into the 9-5 work world. My main project has been Nexus Prime, which has been on hold for a while, but there's some stuff in the works now that mesh is around. And sure, why not.
Robble Rubble: So it's safe to assume you are familiar with the recent controversy about the Justice League Unlimited?
Artemis Fate: And the two before that.
Artemis Fate believes the JLU has violated the spirit of the ToS
Robble Rubble: Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, can you tell me about your first awareness of the JLU? How did you hear about these people?
Artemis Fate: One of them came into Nexus Prime on a call, I'm not sure if someone had a communicator or if they were just patrolling. Nikola Shirakawa, who was a Green Lantern at the time.
Robble Rubble: Was this a positive or negative experience for you?
Artemis Fate: Largely negative, I didn't need an outside group using shields and other scripted tools to handle attacks when I could use sim tools. I ended up having to force her out of the sim since she was surprised that I wouldn't want their help. Afterwards Kalel Venkman IMed me saying much of the same and pointing out rather absurdly that the sim would be unprotected without their help. I asked them to not come around here, and apparently they did add Nexus Prime to their list of sims "not to patrol".
Robble Rubble: What sort of words would you use to describe the Justice League Unlimited and their practices?
Artemis Fate: I'd describe the Justice League itself as unnecessary, and their practices as overzealous.
Robble Rubble: That's a lot less four letter words than I would use.
Robble Rubble: Were there any other interactions with the JLU in Nexis Prime?
Artemis Fate: I'm sure they're generally good people on their own, and that they have good intentions, but together they're going overboard.
Artemis Fate: After that first one I never heard about them in Nexus Prime again, so I'm assuming they kept to their word.
Robble Rubble: What is it that caused you to to get involved in the recent discussions about the Justice League Unlimited on the SLUniverse and Second Citizen MKII boards?
Artemis Fate: The presence of a wiki had been something that was rumored about them the first I heard about them, it was interesting to see proof of it after the first leak, and how it evolved after every leak after that.
Robble Rubble: Have you ever felt you were a target of the JLU? Have you been contacted in world by any of the JLU members since the recent public backlash over the latest round of brainiac wiki leaks?
Artemis Fate: If I ever was, I was never aware of it. They don't have an article for me as far as I know, only a few mentions here and there.
Robble Rubble: What do you think will be accomplished by bringing this issue to the public?
Artemis Fate: I simply would want LL to make an official statement regarding the operation of anti-griefer groups in SL, what they can do, what they can't do.
Robble Rubble: I see that you have Greenlantern Excelsior to task on numerous occasions, what is your opinion on GLE's quality of damage control?
Artemis Fate: Poor.
Robble Rubble: heh
Robble Rubble: Do you think GLE's apologies are credible or are nothing more than that of an apology due to being caught, similar to what happened when Zenmondo was caught in the thread?
Artemis Fate: I don't think I've seen GLE apologize for anything.
Robble Rubble: He does seem adept at wiggling out of that.
Artemis Fate: At most, I've seen him say he regretted the comment regarding sending Nebula a threatening e-mail. [:0]
Robble Rubble: Do you have any questions you have or would have asked the JLU that remain unanswered, and if so would you care to share them with me? Any thoughts on why Kalel has refused to respond to most accusations himself?
Artemis Fate: The most obvious one would be why some of this information is necessary, and why measures haven't been taken to review and verify information put in the wiki for accuracy and necessity.
Artemis Fate: As for Kalel, I don't know. I haven't talked to him much outside of that one contact so many years ago, he seems paranoid and used to being in control now. I imagine it's a bit like Joseph McCarthy, who GLE seems to like so much, who was afraid to bring Charlie Chaplin to stand, knowing he'd lampoon him, so he revoked his right to re-enter the US when he was out of the country.
Artemis Fate: And if there's one thing serious men like that can't stand, it's being made fun of.
Robble Rubble: He does get his tights in a bunch over the smallest things.
Artemis Fate: That does seem to be the case.
Robble Rubble: So do you think the Justice League Unlimited have done anything to violate the Second Life terms of service or the community standards? Because at the end of the day, while people are screaming about ethical dilemnas, legal threats, letters to daytime television hosts and FBI investigations, do you think there is even a chance of making Linden Lab take action?
Artemis Fate: In terms of the letter of the ToS? I'm not sure. In terms of the spirit? Definitely. As per whether Linden Lab would take action, keep in mind that alt-detection and IP grabbing were not necessarily against the ToS until they were made so due to the community outrage.
Robble Rubble: Do you think that JLU members linking to their KryptonRadio blog while simultaniously ARing and getting people removed from search for posting links to blogs critical of them demonstrates any sort of bias that the Lab has in their favor?
Artemis Fate: No, I don't think so. From the evidence I've seen, they once were able to sway more than a few lindens to their cause, but that day seems to have passed, now they talk about in their meetings that none of the Lindens will pay attention to them.
Robble Rubble: In the SLU thread you were talking about an experiment with an alt, Night Sun, could you tell me about that?
Artemis Fate: That was around the same time as the last leak. People were claiming that the JLU was ARing them for being critical of the group. I decided to test out the theory myself using an old alt I had made but never used. I made a sign that was critical of the JLU but not violating any part of the ToS. I actually had a discussion with GLE through the alt and he agreed that it wasn't against the ToS (this didn't stop him from ARing it however). Then I basically sat around and waited to see what would happen.
Robble Rubble: What ended up happening?
Artemis Fate: I got suspended for disclosure. I decided to try again, this time changing the sign from a link to the leaked wiki to a Herald article chosen for no disclosing material. I got suspended again for Disclosure after that. So I removed links to anything in general, and left just the sign. I was suspended for defamation at that point.
Artemis Fate: "Linden Lab has been a mystery in their actions"
Robble Rubble: So what are your thoughts on JLU members linking their KryptonRadio blog in world, a blog that often discloses the RL names of their critics and is full of articles that seem to be written with the intention of grandstanding and defaming their critics?
Artemis Fate: Well, the disclosure suspensions were referenced to linking to the wiki. I think if LL is doing suspensions for material hosted outside of SL, that's a pretty grey area. I don't think people should be suspended for what they say outside of SL, but at the same time I can understand the problems with having a link to a site in world that's full of readily available disclosing information. All in all, I think that the Linden who suspended for it was wrong, not that it was wrong to link that site in world.
Robble Rubble: Do you think that the recent calls of people to contact outside intervention (FBI, Scotland Yard, Ellen lol) will have any effect without Linden Lab taking direct action?
Artemis Fate: I think any outside authority besides Linden Lab would and should disregard it entirely. On the scale of utter travesties of justice that require their attention, this is extremely low ranking (Even for Ellen).
Robble Rubble: Do you have any recomendations on how people can get Linden Lab to take action?
Artemis Fate: I really don't, in all this time Linden Lab has been a mystery in their actions. Sometimes they let things slide, and other times they crack down hard. I do think, however, that they are very aware of this, and have probably already thought out what actions they might or might not take and how it would effect the community and their ToS.
Robble Rubble: What do you think about the fact that a common red herring to many of the criticisms that are posed to the JLU are that they come from people they consider to be "griefers"? And in that light if the fact that many former members of Woodbury, W-hat or members of The Wrong Hands, openly admit to many of the wrongs they have done in the past, do you think that those people's criticisms of the behavior of the Justice League Unlimited should be discarded simply because they were or are admitted griefers?
Artemis Fate: I think no one's point should be disregarded because of their background, if they can make a good point.
Robble Rubble: Some argue that the behavior of the JLU actually creates more griefers on the grid than they prevent due to the collateral damage of innocents being considered guilty by association, getting banned, then returning to the grid as griefers when they previously would not have done so had it not been for the JLU action. What do you think of this theory?
Artemis Fate: I think the JLU make for amusing targets for griefers, which in itself keeps ones around who would otherwise get bored. I know that a lot of the people in Woodbury and otherwise didn't really grief either, but just were involved in a group that was known for it, and they got caught up in a ban for that too. I have no idea if that kind of collateral damage theory is true, but it sounds reasonable.
Robble Rubble: Artemis, I thank you for your time, but before you go. What are your predictions about how this will ultimately end?
Artemis Fate: I honestly couldn't say, during the Emerald fiasco, I was thinking LL would let it slide again, like they had so many times before. Instead they cracked down on the viewer hard and took it apart in a matter of a week or two. For this, I don't know. I'm hoping at the very least they'll make a statement regarding it.
GG3
Sep 21st, 2011
You are not Linden Labs, the company that users agreed to sign up to use Second-Life. You are a 3rd party group within Second-Life. You are not the government, the state, or any other legal establishment governed by law.
JLU,PD, and similar “protection” groups have actively used Second-Life as hunting grounds to intimidate, stalk, harass, and run the meta-verse focused on blatant power-control.
This is not your company. Second-Life are not -your- customers. We do not pay Linden Labs to be subjected to your unethical, segregated, and biased control methods. We do not pay Linden Labs to have our information totted by cape-wearing floozies that can do whatever they please with that information.
Your practices are a joke, and a mockery to real-life establishments.
Dontspill McGinnis
Sep 21st, 2011
@ GLE
“You are the very last person who should should have the moral authority to make any kind of judgment of another group, after you flew around SL placing Tux’s chat spy objects everywhere. Clean up your own house first, and then you can ask questions about someone else’s house.”
Evade much? At least you didn’t deny it. Okay, I’ll answer your charge, then hopefully you will find the balls answer mine. (But I won’t hold my breath.)
As you well know, the the objects you refer to were simple radar prims, not “chat spy objects”. Neither were they placed “everywhere” by me, I only placed them in public sandboxes. The use of radar in sandboxes (or elsewhere) is NOT an infringement of ToS. If they had been chat spy devices, I have no doubt that you will have mass AR’d me for them, but Brainiac shows that though I am labelled as a Griefer, I have no AR’s against me.
Maybe you are confusing this incident with the JLU’s “Superhearing”?
Do you really want to talk about moral authority with me? Oh fun time! Now.. about those AR’s the JLU fabricated against Tux and Atlas using a conversation that took place on Tux’s blog… Your turn.
I’m all ears.
Jumpman Lane
Sep 21st, 2011
Well how come the JLU ain’t banned yet? If what they did is such a crime how come nobody’s called the law!
I for one ain’t reading all 10,000 + threads in CristiNo’s turdhole forums!
I respect The Banned Ones attempt to ban their superhero enemies cause Im gonna bury MINE & they know who they are but trotting out forum lurker Artemis Fate as the example of “regular” residents up in arms over the JLU dust up is well… I don’t know… Um… WHO ELSE YA GOT hehehehe
What I DO know is that CheerGirl Allen ain’t got the cleanest hands in Second Life & if she’s this VEHEMENT it’s something personal cause she’d be too cowardly to do drama for drama’s sake. Tho I’ve a theory.
1. CheerGirl pranks. That is uses those irritating weapons people dabble with from time to time & has the tech know how to grief quite effectively
2. CheerGirl using a griefing viewer, ripping content, even associating with known griefers fits
3. Hanging out with the wrong sort, stealing content, is bad for business and her and her associates were making big usd money deals ( till I wrecked em all apparently hehehe)
Perhaps the jlu caught cheer with her pants down lol, griefing stealing etc etc because ” protecting the business” is the one call to war they answer and makes Stroker & Cheerturd & Chelsea Malibu circle the wagons & run around like chickens with their heads cut off!
Artemis Fate
Sep 21st, 2011
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. Come back with your real SL name and maybe I will respond.”
Seemingly posting with your real SL name doesn’t help much either. You’ve taken an odd stance of ignoring my posts lately.
I pointed out that your group the JLU and yourself are actively defaming SLU (you might recognize the term from when you file abuse reports) with verifiably false information that is being stated as a fact. I requested you and Krypton Radio retract it or find proof of it, as it’s highly hypocritical to be ARing people with it to silence critics, but doing it yourself when someone is critical.
“Show me your badge and your ID card and then the interrogation can continue. Otherwise you are just a busybody trying to stick your nose into someone else’s business where it doesn’t belong.”
Actually that’s a good question, I’m sure you won’t mind showing your “badge and ID card” that proves you and the JLU are allowed to stick your nose into everyone’s business, right?
Otherwise, this would just be another hypocritical statement.
marilyn murphy
Sep 21st, 2011
it talks like artemis. it dont look like artemis. art? is that you? i miss the simpler times, when you could fight griefers with guns and not have to listen to all this crap on the boards about them. griefer groups like the jlu were just armed bandits based in jesse. all this personal stuff and gathering info on your enemies and ganging up to mass report people…tsk. really sort of misses the supposed point of on line entertainment.
lets say conflicting griefer groups like jlu and whoever they are gang reporting now had not arrived on the scene and started warring with people. if griefers actually became a real problem, rather than a 5 min shootout, and people actually left sl because they were an actual problem, then LL would have had no choice but to eliminate them. it has all turned into a big complicated pile of crap that people compete to one up each other on threads and griefing reaches the level of closing down sims and etc. its not fun, or entertaining. its called heartburn and acid indigestion by normal people.
LOL
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
Your lies and propiganda are no longer working to pull you and your friends spandex clad asses out of the fire. My adivce to you, just STFU, crawl back under whatever prim rock you hide under and mind your own business. Most all of the SL residents I have talked to in the past month all say the same thing;
“WE DO NOT WANT THE JLU IN OUR SECOND LIVES”
It will not be long before Linden Lab starts to listen to the masses of people who pay tier, create content and contribute in a positive way to the platform.
Tux
Sep 21st, 2011
@Paul
‘I suppose that intlibber and hobo are also merely suggesting on this page that people should go and just ‘entertain’ Venkman at his RL home as well, eh? just good hearted fun.’
I have no idea what Int was suggesting, but he doesn’t speak for me or the TWH. It is also important not to forget Kalel and his spandex clad friends are guilty of bringing this into the real world. They are the ones who have been collecting personal information in order to contact parents, schools, colleges, employers, isps, and law enforcement. I don’t doubt for a moment some people would want to go ask him why!
@Reader
‘Wake up pal and smell to coffee. You’ve lost. So how about you add your name to the list of “known actors” and come clean. Tux revealed, how about you?’
I didn’t reveal. I posted my profile from the brainiac wiki as it was sent to me. I didn’t know at that point the whole wiki was being leaked. I wanted people to know exactly how the JLU collect information to feed their own personal fetishes!
Also the last time I saw the term ‘pal’ used was when the JLU tried to make it look like I was distributing a viewer. Their was a notice sent out to a group supposedly from me to the TWH group. But we found out it was sent by a superhero to a cartoon group. Even GLE himself said the text didn’t read like mine. Didn’t stop the JLU ARing it though!
@GLE
‘What business is it of yours what someone does with information that’s available in the public domain?’
Not all your information was collected via the public domain. DC’s death you spoke with his sister for confirmation. You listed my children in the wiki, commenting in your weekly meeting how my youngest daughter sounded really cute. That information is NOT in the PD!
‘You are the very last person who should should have the moral authority to make any kind of judgment of another group, after you flew around SL placing Tux’s chat spy objects everywhere. Clean up your own house first, and then you can ask questions about someone else’s house.’
How have they now been turned into chat spies? The simply tested the sim for JLU presence and amended the entry on my webserver. I have seen the JLU claim they tracked IP’s and now chat too? The JLU meetings are nothing more than a big round of chinese whispers but where each player doesn’t actually listen to the whisperer.
——————–
This is all desensitising banter, it is what GLE does. The real true is this: It is NOT ok to collect the information in the PD and publish it, even to a small group. Kalel published collections of peoples real information to up to eighty people he did NOT know. This is indicative of repetitive stalkers. This information was NOT collected for the authorities because the JLU used it themselves in the operations. What has been leaked is only scratching the surface. They have role played their position for so long now they believe it is reality.
It is time LL took charge and stopped this before someone really gets harmed.
Senban Babii
Sep 21st, 2011
@Tux
“You listed my children in the wiki, commenting in your weekly meeting how my youngest daughter sounded really cute.”
There’s something about this that just turns my stomach.
Artemis Fate
Sep 21st, 2011
@Marilyn Murphy
I’ve been mixing up the avs lately. That’s a good idea, all the anti-JLU people and all the pro-JLU people should just head to Jessie and shoot it out.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Sep 21st, 2011
@ Senban
“Can you please explain why you expect fair treatment on blogs and forums outside of your control and yet you stifle and censor free speech and reasonable questions on those you own or have influence over?”
Reasonable questions like this one?
Robble Rubble
Submitted on 2011/09/10 at 2:19 pm
??????????????? ????? ???????????????
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong black woman ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no man ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
??????????????? ????? ???????????????
There are plenty of other forums and blogs where flamers and trolls can flame and troll.
@ Dontspill
“As you well know, the the objects you refer to were simple radar prims, not “chat spy objects”.”
You are correct and I was wrong. They were in fact avatar radar objects, not chat spies.
“Now.. about those AR’s the JLU fabricated against Tux and Atlas using a conversation that took place on Tux’s blog”
I think that was nothing more than an idea under discussion. But if the blog post was an accurate transcript of a chat log that took place within SL, and it contained a ToS violation, then it’s fair game for an AR. LL keeps chat logs for everyone for a few days, so they could verify it and take action, if they wished.
@ Artemis
“I pointed out that your group the JLU and yourself are actively defaming SLU (you might recognize the term from when you file abuse reports) with verifiably false information that is being stated as a fact. I requested you and Krypton Radio retract it or find proof of it, as it’s highly hypocritical to be ARing people with it to silence critics, but doing it yourself when someone is critical.”
This makes no sense. What are you talking about?
@ Tux
“You listed my children in the wiki, commenting in your weekly meeting how my youngest daughter sounded really cute.”
She sounded adorable. That was a compliment. You don’t often hear Tux Winkler-related compliments in a JLU meeting.
Artemis Fate
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
“This makes no sense. What are you talking about?”
I’ll repost the comment from here:
@GreenLantern Excelsior
“If Prok had written the same number of posts in opposition to JLU, she would still be there. But she was on the wrong side, so she was purged. ”
What’s your proof of this? So far there have been two administrative actions in SLU over this thread, one for you for repeated disclosure, which despite Krypton Radio’s statement, was a suspension, not a ban (as far as I know you’re able to post there right now currently, but choose not to).
Prokofy was banned for harassment, double/triple/quadruple posting, and trolling. Considering that Prokofy is or has been banned from just about every Second Life related forum messaging system out there, it should come to no surprise, and make no suggestion on the character of, any new SL board he’s banned from.
There has been no evidence of bans being dished out for supporting the JLU on SLU, again, against Krypton Radio’s statement. Hewee Zetkin, Vagabond Carter, and ZenMondo all posted on SLU in support of the JLU, and no administrative actions were taken against any of them.
This is what would be considered defamatory speech, you know, that thing in the AR box that the JLU uses to silence detractors, I’d recommend you retract these statements or find proof of them lest you be considered a hypocrite.
marilyn murphy
Sep 21st, 2011
ok art. so heres a nice solution. the jlu makes their fortress of solitude in jessie. then they can be busy defending their fort and fight off the good guys with guns and skip all this reporting and name calling and silly stuff. get back to the basics fellers. just fight your enemies where u can see the whites of their eyes and then blow their brains out. all this rhetoric is pointless and not nearly as much fun.
Tux
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
‘She sounded adorable. That was a compliment. You don’t often hear Tux Winkler-related compliments in a JLU meeting. ‘
She is adorable. As are all my children. But this has no place in your wiki. Or in fact in your meeting. I never disclosed anything we spoke of. I actually thought of you as a friend of sorts. I explained my thoughts on the JLU and you listened. I explained how I thought the JLU should be and you listened. My children spoke in the background, you listened. All this was repeated back to the JLU. The same cannot be said for the TWH.
You see this is the issue. You spoke with me and with the TWH as some sort of intel gathering mission. We spoke to you as one of us. Even when socialising you was collecting information. Do you not see how wrong this is?
Sometimes you have to grow up and realise we are adults. Even though we may have different beliefs we can still have things in common. We can still have civil friendly communications.
History shows us what becomes of the dictators who refuse to communicate with those who do not share their beliefs.
Despite Kalel’s best attempts at changing history, that’s right changing history is exactly what he tries to do every time he changes a KR article. He is no better than the dictator burning books to hide the truth.
GLE, we offered you an olive branch, you took it to your lab and extracted our finger prints and DNA.
Senban Babii
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
“Reasonable questions like this one?”
No, reasonable questions like the ones I post. They’ll do for starters. You know, the ones you persistently drop into the memory hole? There’s a couple just a few posts up I recall. Feel like answering those? If you took the time to answer valid questions and criticisms and didn’t censor valid questions on your blog when you have specifically requested them, maybe people wouldn’t troll you so hard. Did you consider that?
But the truth is simple. You don’t answer questions because to do so would expose you to the self-realisation that you don’t have legs to stand on and that you have acted and continue to act in despicable ways. So it’s easier to drop the questions into your memory hole and pretend they never got asked or attempt to channel attention in more comfortable directions.
Horton HooNoo
Sep 21st, 2011
I <3 Artemis. Run away with me please?
Yep
Sep 21st, 2011
GLE tell me more.. tell me more… HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! you are so funny.
OOOOH!!!!!! I hear a chorus coming……..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpJUrt0O7uY
Paul
Sep 21st, 2011
GLE said: “What business is it of yours what someone does with information that’s available in the public domain? Why do you care? Why do you need to know the point of doing it? How does it “diminish the experience of SL for all residents” in any way whatsoever?”
GLE, I think the answer to this is that most reasonable people find the idea of a bunch of superhero clad vigilantes collating RL information about fellow residents to be troublesome at best, creepy in the middle, and dangerous at worse. Thus, knowing this kind of thing may be going on (and you seem to not deny that it does) while one is messing around playing in a fun online game does indeed ‘diminish the experience.’ Just sayin.
And Tux, no worries, I see the distinction between you and Intlibber and Hobo: THEY are the ones who implied in a public forum that it would be a good idea to visit Kalel’s house in RL as a ‘prank,’ and YOU are the one that announced in a public forum that you plan to visit Prok in Ravenglass to ‘entertain’ her, and you are also the one who thinks it is time well spent to script a device that tracks people around SL based on their group membership. See, I can read!
marilyn murphy
Sep 21st, 2011
@horton. if art is running away with anyone its me.
Obvious Schism
Sep 21st, 2011
@ GLE
“So who authorized you to be the detective conducting the JLU investigation? Show me your badge and your ID card and then the interrogation can continue. Otherwise you are just a busybody trying to stick your nose into someone else’s business where it doesn’t belong.”
Um, forgive me for asking the blindingly obvious, but can you tell me who authorized you to be a ‘detective’ and stick your nose into other people’s business?
hobo kelly
Sep 21st, 2011
Everyone who keeps their Astrolabe clean, calibrated and well lubricated while monitoring the Celestial Doggie will know that today is the first day of Fall ! So I guess its just natural for thoughts to turn to leaves falling off of the trees, long long nights as we enter into the Dark Times as the sun goes away, smoking cigars in the dark with jackets on, and Halloween, stuff like that. The time of year when that barrier between the living and the dead is the thinnest, and our dead ancestors are once again closer to us. All of mine are dead. So much death to experience in one lifetime. Its like the ground just decides to open up and suck you asunder. The Darkness pervades everything. A sence of doom and gloom and impending danger. Inexcapable. Oozing from darkly shaded cracks and crevices. Pressing in on your body from all sides. Pressure. Eternity. Pressure. Eternity. Pressure. Eternity. Death… So people light a fire here and there to extend their perimeter against the dark. Maybe throw an egg or dozen to slime the evil with animal embryos in a ritualistic attempt to sacrifice a bit of life to push back against death. Wearing masks so that Death wont recognize us as we fight back against it. Simple ancient human reactions to unseen but certain danger. Like a Laws Rocket with a delayed fuse so that the warhead actually penetrates the walls of evil before it explodes with its cleansing force. Ah fall…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Night
GreenLantern Excelsior
Sep 21st, 2011
@ Artemis
“So far there have been two administrative actions in SLU over this thread, one for you for repeated disclosure, which despite Krypton Radio’s statement, was a suspension, not a ban”
I was suspended for posting a link to an obituary. It was not “repeated disclosure,” and there was no warning and no rule posted that I saw. It was an obvious bias, and I chose not to return.
“This is what would be considered defamatory speech, you know, that thing in the AR box that the JLU uses to silence detractors, I’d recommend you retract these statements or find proof of them lest you be considered a hypocrite.”
“Defame – To attack or injure the reputation or honor of by false and malicious statements.” If you want proof, I have two words for you: Zip Paz. He posts as many times as Prok does when he’s online, and he’s at least as much of a troll. He’s on the popular side though, so he’s still there while Prok is gone.
@ Tux
“My children spoke in the background, you listened.”
You asked your daughter if she could say “Hello, Green Lantern,” but she couldn’t. I thought it was pretty cool.
“You see this is the issue. You spoke with me and with the TWH as some sort of intel gathering mission. We spoke to you as one of us. Even when socialising you was collecting information. Do you not see how wrong this is?”
I spoke about how adorable your daughter sounded on Skype. I suppose that’s information, although it’s not really disclosure. As for socializing, we did chat a few times, but that’s not going to happen now. That ended the night that you and your group decided to write an AR on me in one of the Linden sandboxes. And it’s too bad, because I was probably the only JLU member who would talk to you guys.
@ Senban
“If you took the time to answer valid questions and criticisms and didn’t censor valid questions on your blog when you have specifically requested them, maybe people wouldn’t troll you so hard. Did you consider that?”
That’s not how it works. Trolls and flamers will repeatedly ask the same questions over and over until the blog’s comment section is full. It’s best to set the bar high so that doesn’t happen.
“You don’t answer questions because to do so would expose you to the self-realisation that you don’t have legs to stand on and that you have acted and continue to act in despicable ways.”
The despicable actions in this affair are people gaining unauthorized access to computer systems where they don’t belong and stealing information to post in public. Actions like that have consequences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)#Reaction_from_law_enforcement_agencies
@ Paul
“GLE, I think the answer to this is that most reasonable people find the idea of a bunch of superhero clad vigilantes collating RL information about fellow residents to be troublesome at best, creepy in the middle, and dangerous at worse. Thus, knowing this kind of thing may be going on (and you seem to not deny that it does) while one is messing around playing in a fun online game does indeed ‘diminish the experience.’ Just sayin.”
I can’t speak for everyone in the JLU, but I don’t give a rat’s patoot what someone thinks about me. We all jot down notes on residents we meet in Second Life. Just because my avatar wears a superhero uniform and someone else’s avatar wears jeans and a t-shirt doesn’t make my notes any more troublesome than his. IMHO, that is.
Yep
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLDFF2BEB4AC261D49
I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Tell us another one.
Dontspill McGinnis
Sep 21st, 2011
@ GLE
“You are correct and I was wrong.”
You’d think you would be getting used to it by now……
“I think that was nothing more than an idea under discussion. But if the blog post was an accurate transcript of a chat log that took place within SL, and it contained a ToS violation, then it’s fair game for an AR. LL keeps chat logs for everyone for a few days, so they could verify it and take action, if they wished.”
But it wasn’t, was it.. It was a record of a Skype chat, and therefore couldn’t have contained a ToS violation, but why let such minor details worry you?
You were there, so you should remember it. There was quite a discussion about taking the chat and bringing it in world to claim it was said there. Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
http://thelistjlu.blogspot.com/2011/08/jlu-false-ar-log.html
So much for “Truth and Justice” JLU style.
Senban Babii
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
“That’s not how it works. Trolls and flamers will repeatedly ask the same questions over and over until the blog’s comment section is full. It’s best to set the bar high so that doesn’t happen.”
GLE, people have been asking polite and reasonable and valid questions. They’ve produced screenshots as proof of posting. And they never passed moderation. You’ve seen the evidence, right? So we’re left with only one reasonable conclusion and that’s that the JLU are filtering out the posts that present them with difficult questions to answer so that they can continue to downplay the actual outrage about this situation and to claim it’s only a handful of troublemakers who are hackers and stuff. Well I’m no hacker, I’m no troll, I’m no griefer, I’m not Woodbury, I’m not TWH, I’m just me. So why not start answering my questions?
“The despicable actions in this affair are people gaining unauthorized access to computer systems where they don’t belong and stealing information to post in public.”
Yes, they’re all naughty hackers and karma will no doubt gnaw their faces off in a future life. But that fact doesn’t negate your own wrongdoings. I’m not concerned with the actions of those people here and now. What I’m concerned about is *your* actions and how *you* account for and explain them. And the reason I’m more concerned about that is because *you* chose to open a file on me in your database and I’ve seen how you treat other people who you opened files on and I’m not waiting round for you to do the same to me.
GLE you continue to avoid addressing any of my points. I know you’ll never answer any of my questions but that won’t stop me asking them.
/me points at Dontspill’s post above mine
Let’s start with that one shall we? It’s pretty damning, right? It’s indefensible so how do you intend to address this issue?
Innula Zenovka
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE — ” We all jot down notes on residents we meet in Second Life. Just because my avatar wears a superhero uniform and someone else’s avatar wears jeans and a t-shirt doesn’t make my notes any more troublesome than his. IMHO, that is.”
I don’t about anyone else, but the sorts of notes I take about people in SL normally concern stuff like reminders to myself that we’ve arranged to go to somewhere in SL together at the weekend or details of some custom scripting they’ve asked for.
The only RL information about people I have is information about themselves they volunteer to me, and that I keep completely confidential. If I record it, I put in my address book or diary, not a sodding wiki, for heaven’s sake. And while one of my best friends in SL was undergoing pretty major surgery recently, and shared with my maybe more than I wanted to know about her medical condition, I certainly think it necessary to keep detailed records of it.
GLE — let me try to make this simple for you. Most people find your snooping and notetaking and stalking and wikis creepy anyway.
Your superhero RP gives it an added touch of creepiness, but, as you almost suggest, it would as troublesome if your avatar was wearing jeans and a tee-shirt.
Astolat Dufaux
Sep 21st, 2011
“No one, including JLU, needs permission to do a Google search. Whether the information is maintained on Google’s target website or on a file somewhere else makes no difference. Who appointed you as the Search Police to review other groups and demand explanations?” — GLE
No one appointed me, but I am an SL resident, and I am concerned about the collection and dissemination of information on residents.
I gave Linden Lab permission to collect information. You gave LL permission to collect your information. I DID NOT GIVE YOU permission to collect information on me. Nor did any other resident.
I say again, unless you are vetted by some official agency or company, what you are doing by taking public information, storing it, inserting subjective (and often incorrect) commentary and using it to contact residents, their relatives, their employers, or their schools in RL to disrupt their lives, IS CONSIDERED STALKING.
If the JLU existed in the real world as it does in SL, you can bet your ass that YOU would be investigated by law enforcement — and you’d have a few journalists knocking at your door as well..
Tux
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
‘You asked your daughter if she could say “Hello, Green Lantern,” but she couldn’t. I thought it was pretty cool.’
Like I said she is the sweetest little bundle of joy. It still has no place in your wiki. Clearly from that one conversation you saw I hide nothing. Yet it was still important enough to mention it in a weekly meeting. A more on topic comment would have been: When in a Skype call with Tux I noticed he didn’t try to hack me or extract ultra top secret passwords from me. But no you focused on my child.
‘I spoke about how adorable your daughter sounded on Skype.’
Yes you spoke with me. Not the JLU spoke with me. Lets not forget they are the ones who have been forbidden to speak with me in case I mind control them or some other imaginary bullshit Kalel thinks of.
‘I suppose that’s information, although it’s not really disclosure.’
I never said it is disclosure. You felt it was information or you wouldn’t have mentioned it. Hardly damning evidence though right.
‘As for socializing, we did chat a few times,’
Yes and I never once spoke down to you. I always spoke to you with the respect I would anyone. I know you had a little heckling in the group chats, but no more than we do to each other.
‘but that’s not going to happen now.’
Damn right!
‘That ended the night that you and your group decided to write an AR on me in one of the Linden sandboxes.’
Wait what? I haven’t wrote an AR? What makes you think this?
‘And it’s too bad, because I was probably the only JLU member who would talk to you guys.’
It would be too bad if you hadn’t been relaying information back to the JLU. You see had you been genuine I would probably still been telling people you are an Ok guy. But you wasn’t. You only spoke to me to extract information. Well I hope you got what you came for. I am disappointed.
Artemis Fate
Sep 21st, 2011
@GLE
“I was suspended for posting a link to an obituary. It was not “repeated disclosure,” and there was no warning and no rule posted that I saw. It was an obvious bias, and I chose not to return.”
So you admit that you were only suspended not banned, and that the reason for your suspension was disclosure. Therefore you admit that Krypton Radio has knowingly defamed SLU:
“People are very active about posting there because they know that if somebody from the League gets too close to a reasonable counter-argument, the admin there will simply ban them.” – Krypton Radio
This statement is verifiably untrue and was made to attack the credibility of SLU, therefore fitting the exact definition of defamation. You were never banned only suspended, and no action whatsoever was taken against ZenMondo, Hewee, and Vagabond, all of whom posted on SLU in defense of the JLU.
I can’t understand why you’re trotting out Prokofy as a banned Martyr. Prokofy doesn’t support the JLU, he was taking the opportunity to draw attention to himself and years old griefing incidents, and attack a place and people he hates as he always does. It had nothing to do with the JLU, in fact he’s demonstrably anti-JLU.
If Prokofy only received a ban from SLU (not the first one of his from SLU either) only because of his “support” of the JLU, why is he or has he been banned, last I heard, from the SL JIRA, the SL official forums, Second Citizen, and who knows how many other SL related forums. Hell even your own group lists him as a griefer and troll, and has meeting logs specifically insulting him.
So let’s not pretend that he was a honored comrade who was unjustly banned in the cause of defending the JLU. You guys don’t like him anymore than anyone else does, and he doesn’t like you either.
Sep 21st, 2011
@ YellowLantern
I’m still waiting on a reply to mine and other questions that have been posed here…
Clearly the power of your green ring is still tainted by the yellow of fear.
Yep
Sep 21st, 2011
“@ YellowLantern
I’m still waiting on a reply to mine and other questions that have been posed here…
Clearly the power of your green ring is still tainted by the yellow of fear.
”
I think he is busy this evening starring on a remake of the show “Laugh-in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcHffTlD8wY&feature=related
GLE is a real funny guy. Lets all him him the best.
Yep
Sep 21st, 2011
*wish him the best.
I was laughing so hard at GLE, That I could hardly type.
Reader
Sep 21st, 2011
Palilalia or some type of Asperger variation seems to be a common theme around these parts, in regard to stammering that looks very much like this – “I’m still waiting on a reply…”. Brick wall to the head much? It doesn’t appear you will be getting any answers anytime soon. Oh wait, GLE popped in for a bit and got your juices flowing. OK, you’re excused this one last time. But don’t hold your breath on the answers, seriously. They (answers) aren’t coming. And you should have learned that like 4 weeks ago. So I will ask again, brick wall to the head much? Oh damn, that requires an answer too. One that won’t ever come. And I asked it twice. Damn! Does that count as repetitive? Which brings up another very good question? Does the act of being repetitive in the same comment entry qualify as being better or worse than being repetitive over many individual and separate entries, over a 4+ weeks time, on a multitude of different blog sites that all seem to attract the same type of people, who use 8 or more different log-ins, some created to match world personas and some that don’t but are still funny as hell?
Oh shit, that’s like way too many questions crammed into one.
OK, back on topic. Do yourself a favor and save yourself from embarrassment. Here, try this; it will save you a bunch of keystrokes: (just cut and paste, works like a charm)
• Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
• Um, forgive me for asking the blindingly obvious, but can you tell me who authorized you to be a ‘detective’ and stick your nose into other people’s business?
• Who said anything about hurting you anyway?
• Honestly you believe everyone to be stupid and fall for your gimmicks, JLU?
• Evade much?
• Would you like someone collecting information on you without your knowledge — without your permission?
• What exactly is the point of a user group like the JLU collecting and monitoring information residents?
• WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?
• Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
• Who said anything about hurting you anyway?
• What exactly is the point of a user group like the JLU collecting and monitoring information residents?
• Evade much?
• Who said anything about hurting you anyway?
• Would you like someone collecting information on you without your knowledge — without your permission?
• WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?
• Um, forgive me for asking the blindingly obvious, but can you tell me who authorized you to be a ‘detective’ and stick your nose into other people’s business?
• Evade much?
• Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
Sep 21st, 2011
@ Reader
Of course there won’t be any answers. But pointing out the lack of answers is the only thing that can be done at this stage. Unless you have a better idea?
Anyhow I’ve barely participated in this discussion so far, so your point about repeating endlessly seems a bit hollow.
I actually considered the possibility of copy/pasting my previous questions again. Aside from the fact that it would be considered spammy, and anyone sane would be right to ignore that, I have standards.
But, because it seems to bug you so much…
@ YellowLantern
Still waiting! How’s the new Qwaardian ring working out for you?
hobo kelly
Sep 21st, 2011
wow, tonight the Simi Valley Police Department has been given the full whole unredacted complete and damning and full of underage stalking info, -JLU wiki-, en toto. the SVPD now has the full JLU wiki along with the real names of: kalol cakes the pedo ringleader, GLE his spotter / hunter fisherman, and presumeably prokofy neva the compiler of much of much of the info in the JLU wiki along with some newly recieved calls for help from 15 year olds that were being stalked in real life by the forementioned above. I read all that over on SLU. Trick or Treat motherfuckers.
Yep
Sep 21st, 2011
“SVPD now has the full JLU wiki along with the real names of: kalol cakes the pedo ringleader”
I always thought there was something a little odd about people who wear spandex tights and hang around teens.
Dontspill McGinnis
Sep 21st, 2011
Lol @ Reader
IntLibber Brautigan
Sep 21st, 2011
Excellent work, Hobo, given I’m one of the people they stalked, let me know if Simi Police want to talk to other victims.
Reader
Sep 21st, 2011
@ [ ________ ]
“Unless you have a better idea?”
Another question. Damn!
And don’t hate on me for previous post, I was just following this very sound advice:
“But pointing out the lack of answers is the only thing that can be done at this stage.”
I just added some observations to the only thing that can be done at this stage. Nothing more, nothing less. The only thing that can be done
OK, I need to update the pasta; here we go:
• Unless you have a better idea?
• Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
• Um, forgive me for asking the blindingly obvious, but can you tell me who authorized you to be a ‘detective’ and stick your nose into other people’s business?
• Who said anything about hurting you anyway?
• Honestly you believe everyone to be stupid and fall for your gimmicks, JLU?
• Evade much?
• Would you like someone collecting information on you without your knowledge — without your permission?
• What exactly is the point of a user group like the JLU collecting and monitoring information residents?
• WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?
• Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
• Unless you have a better idea?
• Who said anything about hurting you anyway?
• What exactly is the point of a user group like the JLU collecting and monitoring information residents?
• Evade much?
• Unless you have a better idea?
• Who said anything about hurting you anyway?
• Would you like someone collecting information on you without your knowledge — without your permission?
• WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?
• Um, forgive me for asking the blindingly obvious, but can you tell me who authorized you to be a ‘detective’ and stick your nose into other people’s business?
• Evade much?
• Perhaps I should refresh your memory so you can give a proper answer?
• Unless you have a better idea?
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
I’m still waiting on a reply…
And just to be clear, by way of circling back to something a bit more serious. I suggested moving forward with firm, decisive steps a long time back – which appears to be happening now if I am reading SLU correctly. So that has to count for something; although, Prok wasted no time giving it a thorough prok-style review and upped the ante as a bonus.
( I almost inserted a “no?” a third of the way into that last sentence (at the end of the 1st independent clause) but decided to hold back on adding more complexity to an otherwise overly complicated topic…but you can thank me for that later…)
Obvious Schism
Sep 21st, 2011
@ Reader
The question that I asked of GLE in this thread was the first question that I have asked of him during this current debate. In fact, I even answered a question for him that he posed in the first SLU thread.
How can that be considered repetitive?
Astolat Dufaux
Sep 22nd, 2011
You’ve got a point, Reader.
Kalel, GLE and whomever is left of the JLU who haven’t bailed are obviously the “True Believers” (as they self-reference themselves) aren’t going to budge. They feel what they are doing is RIGHT and JUST and there is no swaying them on the issue, or getting straight answers.
We’ll just have to wait for Linden Lab, and law enforcement, to take action. Which appears to finally be happening.
Reader
Sep 22nd, 2011
In aggregate, the whole thing has become rather tedious and repetitive. (more so over on SLU). Many of my buried points were lost amidst the humor, obviously. (should I or can I say that when I’m responding to a guy named Obvious? shit I dunno) Anyway, my point is, in aggregate it became all too repetitive. The pasta bowl was just questions I grabbed for fun out of this thread – I wasn’t trying to make a point of any one question or group of questions; just the continued barrage of unanswered questions.
….i think. LOL
I did consider compiling a master list of questions from here & SLU with a parser applied but decided it wasn’t worth the effort. Maybe for laughs over the holidays. Who knows? ( <<<< unintended question, please ignore…) I think I've adequately made my point. And as Astolat so succinctly confirmed, "We’ll just have to wait [implied: and see]"
IntLibber Brautigan
Sep 22nd, 2011
Given Maverick Grunfeld, who in RL is a NASA employee, has engaged in mail and/or wire fraud in sending a fraudulent letter and/or email to the administration of Woodbury University defaming myself and Tizzers’ RL persons, I am filing a criminal complaint with the FBI. I am also filing a FOIA request with NASA asking for them to disclose Maverick’s Form 17-60, which under federal rules, requires federal employees to disclose all outside activities, paid or volunteer.
I have heard that Maverick has resigned from the JLU, apparently in response to an email from myself a couple weeks ago requesting contact information for his legal counsel. I have not gotten a reply from him. Maverick: assuming you or your buddies are reading this: I am still waiting for that contact info so I can have my attorney’s proceed…
IntLibber Brautigan
Sep 22nd, 2011
Oh, and …. Trick or Treat, Maverick….
hobo kelly
Sep 22nd, 2011
all the JLU wiki infos along with annotations, background infos, real life names, etc have been turned over to the svpd by someone named Fred over at the SLU. Apparently there was already a case open against Kalol Cakes that they attached it all to.
That wiki contains uncounted hundreds of sessions with Kalol and his retenue sitting around conspiring to commit misdemeanors and felonies. Conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a Felony.
NASA should know better to allow pedos into the space program. How can you go from working at NASA during the day to chasing juveniles at night. That fake and phoney letter he wrote to Woodbury University posing as a young potential with the intended effect of trying to get SL Woodbury shut down qualifies right there. God I cannot believe how dumb some of these people are.
And Linden Labs? How will they be implicated in all of this if it comes to light that they were INVOLVED in the stalking with the JLU either actively by joining in, or passively by taking the info that the JLU gleaned and then doing nothing for punishment. It looks real bad now.
Reader
Sep 22nd, 2011
@ Hobo
I doesn’t look any different than it did 2 weeks ago.
(the natural question that should follow that statement will be omitted for reasons of keeping it simple LOL but I’m telling you, it is in the heads of many people regardless….)
So I will simply move along & restate:
And as Astolat so succinctly confirmed, “We’ll just have to wait [implied: and see]”
And this:
You are making quite a name for yourself as a beat reporter Hobo. Glad to see it! I rooting for ya!
paul
Sep 22nd, 2011
GLE said: “I can’t speak for everyone in the JLU, but I don’t give a rat’s patoot what someone thinks about me. We all jot down notes on residents we meet in Second Life. Just because my avatar wears a superhero uniform and someone else’s avatar wears jeans and a t-shirt doesn’t make my notes any more troublesome than his. IMHO, that is.”
YOUR humble opinion doesn’t matter in this context. The question was why OTHER residents (not you) would feel that their SL experience was diminished by your activities. It is THEIR opinion (i.e. mine for example) that matters, not yours. Wow big surprise, you do not think what you do is wrong. lmao
so to repeat WHY other people would find the JLU’s activities disturbing
“GLE, I think the answer to this is that most reasonable people find the idea of a bunch of superhero clad vigilantes collating RL information about fellow residents to be troublesome at best, creepy in the middle, and dangerous at worse. Thus, knowing this kind of thing may be going on (and you seem to not deny that it does) while one is messing around playing in a fun online game does indeed ‘diminish the experience.’ Just sayin.”
IntLibber Brautigan
Sep 22nd, 2011
GLE said: “ We all jot down notes on residents we meet in Second Life. ”
Um, no we don’t, and if we did, we sure as hell wouldn’t publish them in a wiki accessible to dozens of other persons and liable to be hacked, or otherwise keep them on a server that has repeatedly been demonstrated to be insecure. Only an utter gimp would do such a profoundly stupid and irresponsible thing. Private notes about people, in my previous business role in SL, would be proprietary information and it would have been my due diligence responsibility to keep that information as private as possible. YOU idiots on the other hand, don’t seem to get the legal niceties of things like defamation per se, or wire fraud, or mail fraud, or conspiracy.
GG3
Sep 22nd, 2011
I puke every-time I see superman, now!
Yep
Sep 22nd, 2011
I break into uncontrollable fits of laughter when ever I see anything in RL having to do with the Green Lantern.
Even the greenlight at a traffic intersection makes me giggle.
GreenLantern Excelsior
Sep 22nd, 2011
@ Dontspill
“But it wasn’t, was it.. It was a record of a Skype chat, and therefore couldn’t have contained a ToS violation”
Reading comprehension is important. It was indeed a chat log from within SL:
[18:35:22] Alan Scott (phillip.beeswing): It was a web post of a chat log.
I said “I think that was nothing more than an idea under discussion.” That was correct. People didn’t seem to think much of the idea:
[18:37:06] Jeremiah The Time Dragon (jeremiah.pintens): What exactly did he say?
[14:30] Atlas Saintlouis: I would also like to thank kalel, for reminding me that in the event i am unable to do anything substantial with my RL, i could always come waste my life away in SL like a self important douchebag
[18:39:20] Hal Jordan (greenlantern.excelsior): What’s the violation there?
[18:39:41] Alan Scott (phillip.beeswing): Defaiming.
[18:39:45] The Dark Knight (maverick.grunfeld): I would say defamation.
[18:39:54] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): But I agree there, boy is it thin.
[18:40:00] Jeremiah The Time Dragon (jeremiah.pintens): Yes, it is.
[18:40:08] Bobkoe Nirvana: but, if this was noted to be outside of SL, then wouldn’t we be in trouble?
[18:40:18] Alan Scott (phillip.beeswing): I doubt it would hold up.
[18:40:32] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): Not directly filing it in an AR
[18:40:42] Hal Jordan (greenlantern.excelsior): Yeah
[18:41:14] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): I know we’re looking for any leverage we can get, here, but if we’re going to make something stick, it needs to be good.
So that’s weak. I doubt any ARs were ever filed.
@ Senban
“GLE, people have been asking polite and reasonable and valid questions.”
Again, JLU does not owe an explanation to anyone. The people who have some explaining to do are those who broke into the JLU server and stole information.
@ Innula
“GLE — let me try to make this simple for you. Most people find your snooping and notetaking and stalking and wikis creepy anyway.”
Most people in Second Life, if asked, would have no idea what the acronym “JLU” means. What we are looking at here is a tiny subset of Second Life residents. A small number of vocal opponents is not the same thing as “most people.” Here are the vocal opponents who have posted in this thread:
Artemis Fate
Astolat Dufaux
Dontspill McGinnis
GG3
Gundel Gaukelei
hobo kelly
Innula Zenovka
IntLibber Brautigan
LOL
Nelson Jenkins
NonBreaking Space
Obvious Schism
Robble Rubble
Senban Babii
Tux
Yep
Sixteen people. There’s the total number of opponents who were so angry that they had to post in this thread. Most of them had to post over and over to pad the comments, making it look like there’s lots of opposition. But actually there are only sixteen people here who dislike JLU enough to post about it. As I said before, this issue is circling the drain.
@ Astolat
“I say again, unless you are vetted by some official agency or company, what you are doing by taking public information, storing it, inserting subjective (and often incorrect) commentary and using it to contact residents, their relatives, their employers, or their schools in RL to disrupt their lives, IS CONSIDERED STALKING.”
If you think compiling the results of Google searches is stalking, then you have a lot to learn about life.
@ Tux
“Wait what? I haven’t wrote an AR? What makes you think this?”
If you didn’t, then one of your friends did, and I took the hit for it. I didn’t mind socializing with you guys, and I never talked down to you either, but it appears that the price is too high to pay.
@ Artemis
“‘People are very active about posting there because they know that if somebody from the League gets too close to a reasonable counter-argument, the admin there will simply ban them.’ – Krypton Radio
This statement is verifiably untrue and was made to attack the credibility of SLU, therefore fitting the exact definition of defamation. You were never banned only suspended…”
The Krypton Radio author used inaccurate terminology, but the statement was essentially correct if you substitute “suspend” for “ban.” The result is essentially the same – inability to post messages on the board. And the reason was essentially correct – I was on the wrong side of the argument, and the administration wanted me gone. Any reasonable admin will send a private message to a user who violates a rule for the first time, informing him about the violation and promising disciplinary action if the violations continue. I’ve run several boards, one of them very large, and I would never consider pulling the trigger on a user for a first-time offense like that. So it is clear that the board’s administration has lost any credibility it may have had in the past, and bowed to the majority in that thread by ridding them of two of their opponents – Prokofy and me. So much for diversity, eh?
@ Reader
Have you ever heard of a discussion board called SL Universe? You might have some fun over there!
@ Intlibber
Go search for Form 17-60 and take note that in no way could it ever apply to anyone’s activities in Second Life.