Understanding the “Little Hitlers” of Second Life
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/10/11 at 1:50 am
I’ve long wondered at the connection between Second Life’s endless supply of over-the-top drama and the strange psychology of certain players -- particularly those seriously invested in “defending” Linden Lab and “policing” the Second Life grid.
What is it about Second Life that attracts and retains obsessive-compulsive meta-gamerz who can’t keep their play inside the game?
Do large land tier payments to the Lab trump civil discourse even when Lab staff are swept up in an ugly cycle of Twitter/Google bombing payback as we saw with the LabRatuOut mess? After a concerted effort to attract the Lab’s attention to the recent excesses of the Justice League Unlimited, some of my friends in The Pink Hands faction are getting a bit cynical.
the Pink Hands faction is becoming cynical about Linden Lab
The golden rule seems to be in effect - those spending the virtual gold, rule. Perhaps Rod Humble is just hoping he can finish his new not-SL mobile-device-enabled game before the house of cards falls.
Meanwhile, consider notoriously toxic trolls such as Jumpman Lane, Kalel Venkman’s Justice League Unlimited vigilantes, or Prokofy Neva -- and the level of effort required to spend years tracking and data-mining other players or mounting an endless series of intensive blog, Twitter, and Google bombing campaigns designed to humiliate and destroy enemies.
Forgiveness and redemption seem to be alien concepts for some trolls upstanding Second Life residents, which implies a deep psychological need is being addressed. What exactly is going on?
A recent article in The Economist describing how “quite ordinary people will succumb to bad behaviour if the circumstances are right” may hold some answers.
According to the article, Nathanael Fast of the University of Southern California and colleagues at Northwestern and Stanford universities ran a series of experiments to see if social circumstances around power and status have the potential to create “little Hitlers” who annoy and frustrate others for their own gratification - or are certain individuals predisposed to this sort of behaviour simply gravitating into situations where they can behave badly?
The experiments randomly placed participants into one of 4 groups: high power/high status, low power/low status, low power/high status, and high power/low status. Participants were given the option of forcing other participants to perform humiliating actions -- or not.
Those in the low status/high power group chose significantly more demeaning tasks to impose onto other participants, while those in the other 3 groups did not exhibit this behaviour.
Does this mean that the more extreme guardians of Second Life feel they are in a position of low status in real life and are compensating by harassing and humiliating those within their reach?
If, as the study suggests, the combination of low status and high power is a recipe for trouble, I am beginning to think the celebrated free social media tools which empower those dedicated to cultivating their Internet notoriety may contain the seeds of their own destruction as the "little Hitlers" of the social media use their online power to trash everyone else.
Do you still want to play Web 2.0 after watching Jumpman Lane’s Twitter assault on Stroker Serpentine, LabRatuOut’s assault on Esbee Linden, or after following Prokofy Neva’s carefully crafted Google bombing attacks on all and sundry? How do you feel after learning that Kalel Venkman is still expanding and unsuccessfully attempting to secure his Brainiac wiki data mine?
Is this the sort of game you want to play?
Tux
Nov 4th, 2011
‘Impression management is a person’s efforts to manage how the are perceived by others’
Your ‘interest’ is flawed because you fail to see the difference between a ‘person’ and a game character. Unless of course you a referring to the game character, in which case why all the real life examples.
Being a ‘jackass’ as you so eloquently put it is in fact merely an opinion. It isn’t to say that others share your opinion. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. That are not always the same. This is true both in real life and Second Life, or any other game.
You have enough of a picture of me now to answer a couple of simple questions:
1. What is my bad behavior?
2. What was against the rules?
paul
Nov 4th, 2011
Tux,
No, I see the difference, but I don’t agree with you that just because someone is playing a game character, that is alright to treat them poorly just because you can get away with it and just for laughs. I think that is sad, cynical, and morally unjustifiable. I understand that you do not agree with that, and I really don’t care that you don’t agree with that. In fact, it is handy, because so I am interested in how people rationalize their bad behavior on the internet.
As to my answers to your questions: I have no idea what your bad behavior has been, or what has been against the rules. But that doesn’t matter because I am not interested in your actions inworld or in RL. What I have seen in your comments, though, is a complete rationalization of bad behavior, which is the interesting thing to me. And, based on what you said in here, part of the kind of ‘gameplay’ you advocate is to not care about the interests of other game players, and that one should be able to do anything they can get away with…so by your own logic, you WOULD pride yourself on griefing people in world WITHOUT getting caught red handed (although maybe this hasnt always been the case..what happened to the original Tux avatar? did it get banned for griefing?). So in that sense you seem like a child in front of an adult saying ‘you can’t prove I stole that cookie!!”. But also, and fortunately for me, you also seem to love attention and notoriety, while at the same time you want to be taken seriously, so you continue to rationalize, rationalize, rationalize.
Inherent in your questions seem to be “if you have proof, show it.” That so clearly is part of the griefer game and rationalization that you have outlined so eloquently. But don’t forget, I am not in the business of filing AR’s or trying to ‘prove’ you did anything. I will leave the witch hunts and lynch mobs to you and Kalel. I am interested in your rationale of bad behavior. But, as I have said before, what I believe based on your own statements is that you are a griefer, that you enjoy getting away with behaving badly to people who are just minding their own business playing the game.
Reader
Nov 4th, 2011
Paul, great summarization. Also key to your message and extremely noteworthy is the fact that Tux absolutely adores the attention even though he denies it. He will claim it is US that is keeping the fame alive but that is patently false, although Tux the avatar is dead in world – Tux the blog prolific is driven hard by the idiot behind the keyboard. A real life person I might add.
Tux will certainly respond that he does not seek fame but his actions prove otherwise. He was intrumental in the Wiki breach, instrumental in the stoking of the SLU lynch mod that even went so far as to initiate an impotent Petition online and he is indisputably obsessed with the spandex crew and the Prok. No rationalization will prove otherwise, his deeds are captured in his constant rants and (ir)rationalizations on multiple blog sites.
It’s funny how he claims to be busy with scripting and building now where he adamantly denied having any interest in those things just several months back. Now it’s the wholesome things of SL that keep him occupied. Who knew.
Tux has a lot of time to blow for being a self proclaimed web professional and a dedicated family guy.. It’s all very measurable; pay attention to his YouTube efforts; in his constant fixation with who’s in the people search versus who is not and then who returns, such a great barometer he is; on his meticulous assessment of how many members have left particular group(s) because of the lynching he himself mastered; how the whole thing is a game with little to no real consequence to RL mores & values and most intriguing – how he views himself as a friend and technical supporter to Linden Lab. Laughable I know but if you happen to corner the persona in casual conversation long enough to where he relaxes, he will expound on how he is so instrumental in “testing” and “improving” the Second Life experience. Funny how he would be put on adminstrative hold for, how long is it now? – 3 + months – when he is such a valuable contributor to the community and practically an employee of LL.
One word – delusional. And a very easy manifestation to possess when this is ALL YOU HAVE.
Just about all the players in this charade are finally known commodities – only a few more to go. What happens then?
A splendid time is guaranteed for all.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Nov 4th, 2011
Peter Pedant @ “Can we have some news please?”
I don’t know but this thread’s “ban him, he is a better griefer than I am” is the most fun in projection, willful ignorance and irony outside the Cain verse Perry whine off. This is like watching my nine year old nephews duke it out.
Tux
Nov 4th, 2011
Paul,
The simple reason I disagree with you is this: In some games you can be a bad guy.
Tux Winkler was the original, there have been and will be no others. I don’t love the attention, all the way through this I have been laughing at how easily I can get you to say things. My last was trying to get you to say ‘I don’t care’, it took one post. I enjoy your posts Paul, but I can’t help but to toy with you a little. Perhaps you can guess what the next thing I will have you say is?
I really don’t need you to provide proof, but it does trigger a response from you. I have now been answered by Linden Lab as to why Tux is on administrative hold. They may as well just ban the account because they have put the onus upon me to disprove something. It doesn’t matter because I have started afresh. Tux has nothing I have not already recreated. Aside from a huge inventory.
Reader,
Calm down little chap, you are beginning to rant. Your accusations are without fact. And I have always been scripting. For more years than I care to remember. Certainly since before you first came to Second Life.
I do have a lot of time (less so recently), you know why? Because I put years into building my company and now I employ people to work for me. You don’t have a dog and bark yourself right?
Oh my youtube, I should upload another video. It has only been four months, I am obviously obsessed with it as much as you are with my gameplay XD
Whilst I do have prestigious customers, I assure you, Linden Lab is not one of them. Please though keep up with that imagination, it is a wonderful thing. BTW, while you are fantasising about me, am I wearing my head?
paul
Nov 4th, 2011
Tux,
I am confused…. you are pleased that you got me to say “I don’t really care about your SL or your RL” when from the beginning I have never expressed any interest about either? You are so clever!
Ok…now let’s look at what I do care about: your justifications for jackassery. So, Rationalization # 548: “In some games you get to be the bad guy.” I think we already covered this one, but nonetheless….
if the game is a game of conflict, there are opposing sides, and they are enemies. Flight Simulation, WOW, Call of Duty, and many of the RP’s that people do in SL have this quality, and you can opt if you like. So yeah, I get that… if you play a “nazi” in a video game, you are the “bad guy.” If you are the “Penquin” in a Batman roleplay game, you are the “bad guy”
But SL is not that kind of game. There is no stated objective. Just a barely enforced TOS that says, basically, “don’t harass your fellow resident.” So then you (the theoretical you that actually does grief people, that is) CHOOSE to be a ‘bad guy’ and annoy other people who don’t necessarily want to play YOUR version of the game. Maybe the are choosing instead to have a quiet conversation with a friend when some jackass comes along and spams them with particles and makes them relocate. Then you congratulate yourself for ‘winning’ because you’ve managed to annoy someone, and you’ve escaped without getting caught because rule enforcement is so lax. Darn that Penquin!!!
did I get it right?
paul
Nov 4th, 2011
@ Reader,
Nah, lol I am guilty of enabling Tux in his quest for the limelight. It is fascinating though…it is like lighting a match in front of an arsonist who is up for parole… he..just..can’t…help..himself….
Tux
Nov 4th, 2011
Paul,
‘But SL is not that kind of game.’
Wrong, Second Life is a game of games. All of what you have stated and much more are included. Not all of them are secluded. Just because you are not aware of the game, does it mean it shouldn’t be played?
You realise you are talking of your opinion. Just like an anti-bloodlines player speaks of a vampire clan. Or more accurately a real life communist speaks of a player in a nazi uniform. Seeing as they have no differentiation between real life and Second Life too.
You see no one resi has the right to dictate to another what games can be played. Yet you still try. I say if you are sitting and chatting and someone does spam particles, why not just turn them off temporarily? Instead of running away and bitching about how you was subjected to really horrific griefing. Seriously Linden Lab and all the TPV’s give you the ability to ignore a griefer. Some choose not to in favour of drama. Drama = +1 to a griefers e-fame!
Reader
Nov 4th, 2011
“he..just..can’t…help..himself….”
So true and that is, at the very least, half the problem.
GeeksDoingLaundry
Nov 4th, 2011
Hello anyone knows how much money laundring LL did this month with gambling and porn? are mafias behind them doing good?
is sl economy healty? do lindenss still playng on alts??? do they still hanging at gol element club? Do they still protect jlu and other sub mafias allowing them to track down and stalk ppl in rl??? all good then!
such a lovely virtual world, as philip said “you can be really free here….(wearing our collar, ofc.)
LL? bunch of rl criminals.
paul
Nov 4th, 2011
Tux:
“You see no one resi has the right to dictate to another what games can be played. ”
Right. So if someone is minding their own business, what right does the griefer have to interfere with that with their stupid prims and particles if that first person does not wish to play the griefers game?
Let me guess: it is the griefer’s game to make the first player feel annoyed and the griefer can feel like they won this round of the game because they got a cheap laugh and got away with it. Is that right?
But I do agree that one person can’t really tell another person not to be a jackass…if they choose to be a jackass, well, they are just choosing to be a jackass. I am just interested in how they justify being a jackass, which you do so marvelously.
keep it coming, Tux…
Legato
Nov 5th, 2011
Thank you for including the picture of these “little Hitlers”. Now I know how to recognize them so I can AR them on sight. Do they always wear those uniforms? Is the penguin guy or the robot guy the leader? They look like scumbags. I hope LL does something about them.
hobo kelly
Nov 5th, 2011
I wish I could be a griefer jackass too. I try really hard but I just cannot get any traction. Like this last week, I stretched the Crazy Cat Lady Talking Hand Puppet all the way to where it was big enough to be avatar sized and then attached it to my waist and proceeded to get into a car and drive back and forth on the highway through ravenglass running unsuspecting people off of the road while yelling Technocommunist! at them… and got nothing… nothing! but someone can come along and cover the damned place in Commie Cats and they get press all over the place, why I never…
dagooch
Nov 5th, 2011
“quite ordinary people will succumb to bad behaviour if the circumstances are right” may hold some answers.”
Does this apply to your own bad behaviour too, Pixeleen?
Because you’re not exactly a paragon yourself. You’re more like the yin to prok’s yang.
You also (intentionally?) omitted griefing groups from your most wanted list. Gosh, I wonder why?
Pixeleen, pluck the plank from your own eye…
Or.. continue to be a hypocritical prick by supporting the griefer agenda whilst simultaneously whining about the agenda of “OCD types”.
And just an FYI, most of us “quite ordinary” SLers” think that MOST of you bloggers are OCD, including yourself and the other overgrown fratboys who founded this site.
Say Pix? Have you ever criticised Urizenus Sklar for being a “OCD” busybody in TSO? For trying to force his morals on others? No need to answer that, heh.
Jumpman Lane
Nov 5th, 2011
i wish i could be a prim litterin chat spammin griefer when i grow up! hehehehehe
LOL
Nov 6th, 2011
@GeeksDoingLaundry
about 23 million US$ give or take
GG3
Nov 6th, 2011
@Legato
LOL!
Jumpman Lane
Nov 7th, 2011
LOL i must be missin the joke caws that CANT BE YOUR RL PHOTO! you would have been beaten every day of your life where im from for looking like a cold bitch! hehehehe
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Nov 7th, 2011
Legato @ “Thank you for including the picture of these “little Hitlers”. Now I know how to recognize them so I can AR them on sight. Do they always wear those uniforms? Is the penguin guy or the robot guy the leader? They look like scumbags. I hope LL does something about them.”
No! No1 You have it all wrong; Those are the good guys! Hitlers wear uniforms, attack anyone who disagrees with them and blame all their problems on minority groups like Slavs,,,
oh my goodness!
GG3
Nov 7th, 2011
Lol random JLU trolls coming out the wood-works.
Does it win brownie points with your leader(s) Kalolcakes?
Like the bloated, hairy comic book nerd that neglects to wash where the sun don’t shine. Prowling the pseudo kingdom to control and enforce. The greed of merchants and LL being a lazy, crooked company gave you means to be some fake “saviors” of Second-Life when your really more nothing than busy-bodies thinking their the law.
You are no-one. Your Second-Life is your only life,obsession on cartoon characters in a laggy, bug-infested, outdated program. Failure to accept that Second-Life will not be around forever. Games come and go, companies(are now) come and go. New technologies come out while the JLU continue to live in their stone-age hierarchy.
Step outside the dim-lited computer area for once and see whats going on around you. There’s a world out there, and your wasting it playing play play cop and using ill-legit means on other customers to have your way.
Reader
Nov 7th, 2011
shut up Mies
IntLibber
Nov 8th, 2011
Whats the matter, Kalolz? No witty rejoineders to GG3?
hobo kelly
Nov 8th, 2011
Monday Night Mischief Maker Call going out everybody who wants to sing and laugh along with Tizzers and others as they render Kalel Venkman in his raw emotional rawness as The Little Mermaid that he really is, along with his trusty pal Green Lantern Crab… Watch now Mischief Makers… watch now…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHImtVDhHQU
GG3
Nov 8th, 2011
@Reader
Truth hurts?
Peter Pedant
Nov 9th, 2011
No news? OK, game over. Bye.
James Doe
Nov 9th, 2011
So this is interesting, away on vacation and nothing new is up just the same obsession.
@GG3
You do realize that it is not just the JLU obsessing about things. But you are as well. So do Tux and all the people wanting to get rid of Prokofy and the JLU.
@potosi abonwood
So I have a question, if we get rid of the JLU and Prokofy can we then get rid of Tux and the other perma-banned people as well. I am sure they have caused as much grief as the others. How do we make sure that these people don’t keep coming back in?
Next question where do we stop with getting rid of people who says who should be removed and who should stay?
If Tux and others have every right to be in second life then so do the JLU and Prokofy.
(Sorry Tux and the other perma-banned people SL removed them for a reason because they did something in the past with their original persona, yet they keep coming back in. These people keep getting caught again by the JLU obsession patrol.)
In your theory these people should not be allowed in ever again right?
It’s actually interesting to see these “griefers” go all rage on about how evil the JLU is.
How many forum posts on the JLU or Prokofy? How many Articles written about them?
Seems that people are very obsessed with them.
@Tux
#agridwithoutprok2012 is a wonderful concept.
Again more obssesion with Prokofy, don’t forget that JLU and Prokofy think the same about you and the others.
This again goes to who has the right to say who is or isn’t allowed back in. Seems you keep coming back in all the time. So does Mr. Robot head, and Tizzers.
I do not see anywhere on “Second Life” website describing it self as a “Game” It is more a social network similar to a “Face Book” with games in it.
Now are you talking about that childish 4chan term the “Game”?
I would think you have lost the “Game” several times. But you’re too stubborn to stop coming back to Second Life.
“Second Life” doesn’t need griefers Tux, sorry! I am sure many people would be happy with out your antics or other griefer antics in their Sims or at clubs.
GG3
Nov 9th, 2011
@James Doe
There’s a major difference between obsession and customers who understand when others are clearly trying to take advantage of them.
Fact of the matter is the JLU is untrustworthy, ill-legit, and treat Second-Life as their personal property, and have under gone distasteful means to keep that bogus property. They have completely ignored RL laws, all for the sake of controlling a pixel environment that they do not own.
The wiki is real, beyond reason of a doubt. This has been confirmed multiple times, as well as the information held within the wikis have been confirmed. They have obsessed over RL locations of some of those listed in the wikis, let alone this nonsense of tracking people to other virtual platforms too.
Fact of the matter is some 3rd party JLU group in SL believes they have a right to:
1) swoop AR parties on others for things as petty as dislike, causing the person(s) to loose their accounts by manipulating the abuse system.
2)DMCA people’s websites to hide the fact that they are crooked.
3)Trying to get people kicked off their places of work or education for bogus reasons on a virtual game.
4)Grabbing people’s SL/RL info off of SL to use as a baton to intimidate/harass.
5)Wasting the REAL PD’s time with a bunch of junk reports
6) Arrogantly declare themselves as the given “Law of The Land” in some self-importance
7) Back-end garbage with Linden Labs
It’s the user that decides where they want or do not want to go. These “clubs” are hardly the standard of what would really be consider virtual to began with. For one they are very repetitious and often up-tight, dry typical environment. It’s the same stuff I’ve seen at other e-clubs. Half of them don’t play their own music, and when they do it’s the type of music that wouldn’t see the try-outs of American Idol.
Big deal.
It’s pretty disgusting how the word “grief” is thrown around so easily on Second-Life. It’s a word that has deep meaning, and is not something that should be used casually. Griefing usually occurs when a close person dies or a disaster happens. Having that same meaning over the equivalence of an uncontrolled video-game shows that priorities in the RL are replaced by pseudo ones that shouldn’t be number “1″ in life. Watch the news sometimes, that’s where REAL GRIEF happens, not this pixelated garbage that SL is being mounted on a pedestal for.
Bunjie
Nov 10th, 2011
@James Doe
Not directed at me but I’d like to answer from my point of view if you don’t mind
tl;dr? long conceptual reply is long, and is it too much to ask to not have my Second Life experience dominated by Prokofy and the JLU?
We all come into Second Life with our own ideas, it was “our world”, not Prokofy/JLU’s world, Keep the fuck off my lawn!
Prokofy & the JLU etc are not localised to a single resident to resident dispute, you call it obsessive on the the part of TWH etc but I see it as localised defensiveness towards those groups of residents who deliberately provoke and miss represent themselves within the context of the issue.
Tux, TWH and WU don’t bother anyone else until provoked directly it’s all localised defensiveness after speaking out against an issue residents have yet to engage with, and the fact they’re written about here is not indicative of a wider issue on there part so calling them griefers is way out of context and merely part of a perspective mask they’ve taken on because of residents like you who can’t tell the difference between a greifer and a resident practising defencive creativity, unlike Prokofy and the JLU who’s modus operandi is to attack anyone and everyone if their history is anything to go by.
The JLU’s phantom zone is one such issue of a spiders web being put out to act as data tentacles to control other residents (not a conspiracy of my mind at least) but I don’t see anything on behalf of TWH or WU that would be seen as remotely matching up to Linden Lab employees attempting to hand residents ban powers (JLU) or phantom zone type systems.
Though Tux’s JLU tracking prims don’t count as this was his way of understanding how such tactics work and if you’ve read up on it you’ll know he complied with ALL Linden Labs requests where as the JLU mealy shift the blame for collecting IP addresses onto another in-world group and continue to harass the Greenzone Hud group and anyone who get in their way.
Which reminds me of that failure of a Linden Plexus who told me to “get out of the way” yet puts himself in-front of Prokofy “because hes bored” and gets blamed for what’s happening to her, yet finds it not remotely embarrassing considering Prokofy’s been around for years and Linden Lab clearly know how they deal with her and yet he still put’s himself into a position that only a naive Linden or resident would.
Do you really think Plexus has no experience of Prokofy? either he wants to get rehired or hes a {insert your own perspective}.
Take your own advice bro “get out of the way”, you’re old news, fired and no where near likely to get rehired for “trying to reason with Prokofy” or trying to help because that shows lack of experience the very thing you’re supposed to have been hired for, you’re on the wrong team fighting it as a war and it’s no wonder you’ve been fired.
So let’s be realistic most abuse issues in Second Life are argued and resolved without the drama ever having to leave the Sim that originated it, if it didn’t this news site would be over flowing with low grade drama and as this site is merely always about Prokofy, The JLU, Corsi or that guy who can’t spell but wants to sell pixel porn and a few others who scratch the surface of relevance for that week it seems obvious that life happens and most people move on, the 9 o’clock news doesn’t report everything that happens in the world, and neither should they attempt to collect that information and report it in a format without deep context.
Keep reading I’m going somewhere with this.
Most residents are mature enough to resolve it either by muting and banning that resident or resolving it like mature adults and apologising to each other, I think most residents under normal circumstances and not in the heat of any moment don’t care beyond removing the minor annoyance out of their personal space or from around their friends and business interests.
That’s doesn’t always require a perma-ban, it requires maturity on both sides to stay out of each others magic circles or don’t get held up on every minor issue that to the other side is a none issue and mealy part of their social etiquette, though I don’t count spying on others and using alts to inject yourself into someones sim that your not allowed in or welcome in for the purpose of gathering dirt to be sufficient to qualify as mature social etiquette that must be respected as part of a circle we must accept exists as FYI that’s ALL against the TOS and a primary opening act of the JLU.
I think this whole concept with Prokofy and the JLU is really about them trying to silence other residents point’s of view and expressions, we resident’s who want them to have a point of view and want to engage with them as mature adults can’t because of their modus operandi, aka because of the baggage they bring with every opening volley of missiles.
Prokofy and the JLU’s constant act makes it impossible to resolve anything, especially if they consider good tactics being a coward and not commenting on a 3rd party site or turtling and avoiding taking responsibility for their actions, or having one or more of them troll this and SLU to make others look bad, when FYI it makes you look like a fuck nut shot of a pool table “GLE”.
Why the Hell should Linden Lab want to rent server space to someone incapable of understanding basic concepts, who act like men child’s and take rp beyond what everyone else considers social etiquette of keeping the toys in the sandbox?
So who’s the mature adults here? Prokofy who will attack every customer of Linden Labs in an effort to wrap the conversation around her, remove anyone wishing to improve the service (tech guys), and Kalel who won’t leave his sim because he knows hes wrong and is not willing to face up to it and move on?
Or TWH etc who are totally out here for all to see, with very little secrets and have merely brought stuff to the attention of Second Life residents when these so called good residents break Linden Labs in-world law’s and get away with it due to Linden Lab’s favouritism.
It’s not funny that the JLU can push this drama way outside of Second Life but when someone speaks out on it, either via this site, Rodviks wall or another personal space it’s that resident getting it in the neck who’s then being abused in real life and gets Punished for it by Linden Lab’s inability to understand social concepts and who’s really doing what when Linden Lab have access to 24/7 chat logs and can listen in on the JLU or any resident at the drop of a hat.
Prokofy loves to spout that you’re banned and theirs a reason for it, yet she’ll hardly ever tell anyone that the reason some are banned has nothing to do with griefing it’s because of people like her and the JLU who fake abuse reports in-order to silence their critics, yet I’ve never really seen the TWH do anything more than visit a space that’s open to the public and just because TUX or Tizzers visits a public space when they’re allowed to be on the service in the past should not be grounds to cry foul and provoke them or because you teleported into somewhere they owned or hang out because it’s a popular public space.
I still believe under the “mask” aka the facade Prokofy’s built upon the base persona other residents have pushed out of her based on their perspectives of her actions shes somewhat normal but doing this because shes dependent on the income from the drama, and as there is no normal unless you’re a pre-programed robot the question I ask is her acting out something we should accept?
I don’t think so as unlike the JLU in the past pre-phantom zone it was localised to a set group of residents “a recurring resident to resident dispute”, not that the JLU are any better in keeping the toys in the sandbox but the problem is when residents become de-localised and tread into other residents “Magic Circles” without being invited, it’s griefing and Prokofy is guilty of this as is the JLU with spy alts and anyone who goes into someones land / personal space with the express purpose to not abide by their rules and social etiquette’s..
E.g. Mentors at Ahern don’t report every minor infraction, that’s common sense and social etiquette of that public space, so what right has anyone to go into a privately owned space with the express purpose of looking for targets to AR bomb over minor infractions that within that magic circle are none issues or part of that experience?
Why does Linden Lab insist on accepting abuse reports from the JLU about “Russian builds” being against the TOS or other such things that puritan Hitlers like Kalel Venkman can’t resist reporting? even if that environment is a role play or game environment to experience it for what ever purpose the person paying for that Sim chooses.
I do want to get rid of Prokofy but on the other hand I’d prefer if she just shut up playing the victim and forcing that onto every social network and other mediums where it’s impossible to not hear of her at some point by a 3rd party, though Linden Lab can’t gag free speech and I’d never be for that but Prokofy goes beyond constructive criticism and free speech and should not be tolerated because it’s slowly killing off the social fabric of Second Life, and creating this perception that SL is for losers and don’t go near it as it’s full of stereotypes who can’t control themselves and can’t act maturely.
Linden Lab could sue her if they can demonstrate her prolonged blogging was detrimental to the social fabric of the service, but they won’t because they don’t see the social perspective everyone else does and because like TUX said opinions are like assholes everyone has one so does everyone maintain their own perspective and the company perspective is one that Linden Lab seem to fall for time and time again at the hands of the JLU and Prokofy Neva.
I think the solution is to just get Prokofy and others to tone it down, I think that’s all most people want and need so it’s not a constant thing where they’re at the top of this social experience with the drama and others who do things of value get the recognition they deserve, things that change our experiences of this virtual world as apposed to those who drag us down with constant drama centered around them to draw others into localised defensiveness.
Tumnus
Nov 10th, 2011
@Bunjie What the heck is wrong with you? Seriously? I starting reading your bizarre assertion that “Tux, TWH and WU don’t bother anyone else until provoked directly” and was like, um, really? I’m sorry you’re still butthurt by Prok, but in my 6 years in SL, I’ve never met Prok or the JLU, but I’ve had griefers show up and harass me and my friends at clubs, at stores, at concerts, and on my land. You’re a furry, for gods sake. Prok may have harassed you because of what you said on some forum, but these griefers *hate* you for what you are.
James Doe
Nov 10th, 2011
@Bunjie
Intresting write up.
Ok first you need to be honest, Tux and the WH, PH what ever you want to call them. Have not been innocent in all this. They have done things to provoke on purpose.
Lets also not forget the “magic circle” is broken by many people not just JLU even the so called griefers you are protecting and others.
I am curious why we don’t see the logs from around July this year of the IFT scifi con. I am sure the JLU had alot to say about that. We get an August 2011 but no July? Could it be it shows Tux and the others in a bad light? I have no idea but could be.
See the problem is no one is neutral in any of this. griefers love the drama, and the attention just like the JLU hell the alphavillehearld keeps writting about these people. Tux and the other people have been booted from Second Life for a reason the first time. Yet they keep coming back and bragging about it. Why do they do that?
So what Prokofy writes about people, so what welcome to the internet. If you want Prokofy to stop then the Herald should stop everyone should stop but we know thats not going to happen.
Sorry I just don’t see this whole thing as 1 or 2 people being a problem. Its the collection of the residents. But see just like in real life we all don’t get along. So then go someplace else and ignore them. I am sure you can have a happy Second Life with out mentioning Prokofy or JLU you don’t have to have any contact with them. The only time I had contact with the JLU was at the IFT con.
I have been in SL for many years.
IntLibber
Nov 10th, 2011
James, if you havent figured it out by now, if Prok didn’t get griefed, she’d have to grief herself with alts to have something to talk about. Her MO is to pick fights with people to get attention and promote herself while being immensely uncivil and broadly offensive to much of the community. The only reason that LL doesn’t ban her completely is they fear her making a bigger stink and causing them more negative PR, period. The people who “grief” her only do so in response to her own offensive behavior. If there is anybody in SL who is NOT a victim, its Prok.
Same goes for JLU. The only reason they exist is because they want to be important when in RL they are absolutely nobody at all, and unlike some of us, who have sought to achieve through building businesses, creating great content, and other positive contributions to the community, they see their only road to fame being in causing problems for others. They choose to be offended by the 4chan language of some residents and file abuse reports against them, getting them banned so they lose their content and inventory that they may have spent good money on or put hard work into creating. When everything you care about is taken away from you, you have nothing to lose, and you are free to respond as viciously and callously as you choose. If such self important vigilantes were not allowed to operate, the griefing problem would be much lower than it is now, and my own work eliminating griefing proved that, between 2007 and 2009, abuse reports dropped by 3/4 as I worked to drain the manpower of the PN and exposed vigilante alts in that group who were helping to organize and direct its activities. For this I was punished, my business destroyed, everything I worked for taken away. I now have nothing left to lose… This is how LL and their tolerance of trollish vigilantes turned one of their top 25 customers into someone who would rather hang out with griefers and would rejoice if LL and SL were nuked tomorrow.
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
Everything Bunjie just said above +1 (+3 vs Undead)
@IntLibber
“James, if you havent figured it out by now, if Prok didn’t get griefed, she’d have to grief herself with alts to have something to talk about.”
This is precisely it in a nutshell.
Prok goes out of his way to attack and provoke on his blog, on Twitter and elsewhere. He does this because he defines his own existence and identity via a victim complex. He needs people to attack him because he needs that justification of his world view.
(I have to admit I’ve struggled slightly here over pronouns. Normally I try to respect a person’s presented gender and I have done so here but Prok’s ongoing actions actually stretch the boundaries of inworld and outworld considerably and so sometimes it’s not appropriate to talk about Prok the inworld avatar/character and we stray into talking about the behaviour of the person behind the wheel. Just a thought in passing).
IntLibber
Nov 10th, 2011
Why Second Life Failed:
https://fb.trove.com/fbwapolabs/me/channels/4634/content/Ujk0D
Philip and his kool-aid drinkers comment, but all are welcome to respond to this article, I have already commented on it.
James Doe
Nov 10th, 2011
@Intlibber @Senban
So what Prokofy writes on a blog.
Pixeleen here does the same thing.
I do not see you all jumping on Pixeleen for doing similar to Prokofy, why? Because she is going after the people you don’t like. Tux writes a blog! Many People write blogs and post on forums to cause reactions in others. So should we get rid of all of the people who write blogs about SL? Does a blog written about your SL person really hurt you? Does it really interfere with your lives?
See you all can just walk away and ignore these people but you all do not do it. You all love the drama they bring to secondlife.
Your fighting some stupid sense of justice because some of you got the “Game” played on you by a bunch of comic book geeks and an old woman. Your egos can’t accept this so you keep up the drama cause you love it just as much as Prokofy or the JLU do.
Here is the thing many of you say that SL is a “game” and people should be allowed to play it how they want. Then Prokofy and JLU can play it just the way they want. They want to AR people or call people griefers then let them. Does it really affect your life in SL or RL? It is your choice to not read the blogs, to not talk about Prok and the JLU. No one is forcing you.
@IntLibber
Sorry I have seen griefing happen at the IFT con where certain people used a known flaw in the system to place porno images in a G-rated Land. This is why we will never see the JLU discussions from that con. Because the people controlling the flow of the info from the wiki are known griefers.
4chan language I hate it personally I can usually tell the age of someone who uses it. I usually wait till these people actually grow up. Yea I offended a bunch of you I am sure.
See you all allow the drama to continue, you do realise someone put the term “to do a prokofy” on the urban slang language why?
You all love to instigate her/him just as much as she does you.
If you all just ignore her she will still do her own thing, and you can move on. If you get rid of her or the JLU you will just move on to someone else to instigate.
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
@James Doe
“So what Prokofy writes on a blog.
Pixeleen here does the same thing.
I do not see you all jumping on Pixeleen for doing similar to Prokofy,”
There’s a world of difference between someone reporting on events and someone deliberating creating those events, casting themselves at the centre of those events so that they can reinforce their own victim complex.
“Does a blog written about your SL person really hurt you?”
Does a bunch of flying lolcubes on your SL eLawn hurt you?
See the problem here? You’re actually discounting your own argument (see above re griefing at IFT con thing). You can’t say that griefing hurts anyone and yet say that words on an internet are irrelevant. Both are nothing more than pixels on a monitor that you can walk away from, right? So you have to decide James, either both are valid or neither are valid. If griefing the IFT con is a valid issue then so is attacking someone on a blog. If attacking someone on a blog is not a valid issue then you must concede that complaining about griefing is likewise invalid. So which is it James?
In fact if anything I’d argue that attacking someone on a blog is marginally worse because the internet never forgets and those written words will exist for many years while eCubes on an eLawn will be gone within minutes and can not be recovered.
James Doe
Nov 10th, 2011
@Senban Babii
Pixeleen doesn’t always report things as to get all sides of the story Pixeleen is a Tabloid Journalist. One sided. In this article alone I do not see other being Identified as “Little Hitlers” which many of us have pointed out their are more than just the JLU and Prokofy. But why would Pixeleen write against her friends who also fall in to the same definition. Pixeleen and Prokofy are basically the Yin and Yang of each other.
The Pornographic Images that were used was rude and offensive to have on a PG rated sim. It was used to try to get the owners in trouble. It was not a prank it was not funny it was a immature act by people who should know better. It is also against the community standards and the TOS to display such images on a PG sim.
So no i have not discredited my argument. I never said ecubes or prims did I. The people who placed this stuff violated the TOS of the Lab.
I suggest you go look at all the hate blogs in the web how people write things about authors, politicians, and others. I guess you and people don’t have thick skins to let ramblings of a woman roll off you.
It goes to that you can’t let it go and your ego is hurt.
When you sit here and say she is hateful and all, yet the same people she goes after go around and do things to instigate it more.
If you stop then she will eventually but neither side wants to give up because it will make you look bad.
(I used “you” as a generalization of everyone who has issues with the people)
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
@James Doe
“Lots of words that entirely fail to address my points by trying to make the argument something different”.
Never mind
Oh and also.
“Pixeleen doesn’t always report things as to get all sides of the story Pixeleen is a Tabloid Journalist.”
It’s not a reporter’s job to report every aspect of a story.
paul
Nov 10th, 2011
You can choose to read a blog or not, but you have no choice if a griefer comes onto a parcel where you are and dumps his/her stupid prims and particles on top of whatever it is you are doing.
It IS kind of funny how one cranky woman and a bunch of self righteous middle age comic book geeks have a bunch bad ass griefers on the run, actually.
And yes, it certainly is a reporter’s job to do their best to cover every aspect of the story, unless you follow the Joseph Goebels school of journalism.
Intlibber…take deep breaths and move on with your life. You seem rather obsessed.
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
@Paul
“And yes, it certainly is a reporter’s job to do their best to cover every aspect of the story”
No it isn’t. It would take too long to thoroughly research a story from every angle and by the time the entire story was known it would have lost any and all relevance. A journalist’s job is to initiate the story and for the full story to then be drawn out. In a newspaper that means updating the story each day as new facts come to light. In a blog environment such as this that’s not realistic and so the story unfolds via the comment section.
This stuff really isn’t that difficult you know…..
paul
Nov 10th, 2011
OK Senban, you are right, and black is really white and night is really day. lololol
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
@Paul
Great comeback there! Well thought out, insightful, it had everything.
Wait, no it didn’t.
If anything, it just showed you didn’t have a counter to my point. Frustrating when that happens, right?
James Doe
Nov 10th, 2011
@Senban Babii
You just failed to see the style of griefing Tux’s buddies caused.
I was mentioning a specific griefing incident. You made it to a generalization or prims.
So Prokofy writes a blog and does her journalism. How is this any different that the Alpha Heralds views.
You say its not up to a journalist to present all sides so Prok makes stuff up possibly and writes about it. One could say the Alpha Herald does the same thing as well.
If we get rid of Prok does that mean the writers of the Alphaville Herald get to leave SL as well?
Paul is correct you don’t have to go to Prok sims or read her/his blog.
You don’t have to read the NY Times, or watch fox news or listen to Howard Stern. You have a choice.
Some one comes to a convention that you are enjoying and places pornographic images up is griefing and was not something some people desired to see on a PG sim. That is the difference between what Prok does and the griefers in sl.
Griefers go to public places to be immature because of some childish vendetta and involve other people who have no clue about the little war they have against the JLU.
These people decided to hurt other sims at the con just because they can.
So you say thats ok?
If you do then why bother with Prok or the JLU.
paul
Nov 10th, 2011
@Senban…..no, no effective comeback at all. I have no excuse. I guess I was just stunned at how completely ludicrous your statement about journalism was.
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
@Paul
“no, no effective comeback at all. I have no excuse. I guess I was just stunned at how completely ludicrous your statement about journalism was.”
I know I know, it must seem that way for you. Don’t worry, you’ll get the hang of it eventually
Meanwhile though Paul you completely threw any smidgeon of credible argument out of the window when you Godwinned yourself with this statement.
“And yes, it certainly is a reporter’s job to do their best to cover every aspect of the story, unless you follow the Joseph Goebels school of journalism.”
Thank you for playing
Paul
Nov 10th, 2011
ooooo yes… Godwins Law…which basically makes any reference to nazi’s off limits in online discussion, regardless of it’s applicability in the current discussion. Boy, you sure nailed me with that! No Senban, that is a bullshit response unless you can demonstrate that it is relevant. If you are really that simple, I can spell it out for you (now read carefully): Joseph Goebels, the master of propaganda, presented himself as a ‘journalist’ but explicitly presented just one side of his stories, which is what you claimed is acceptable journalistic practice.
Two seconds of google searching finds this statement about journalistic ethics:
“Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues. Conscientious journalists from all media and specialties strive to serve the public with thoroughness and honesty. Professional integrity is the cornerstone of a journalist’s credibility. Members of the Society share a dedication to ethical behavior and adopt this code to declare the Society’s principles and standards of practice” (http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp)
In contrast, blogs like Second Thoughts and the Alphaville Herald are editorials for Prok and Pixeleen. They can say whatever they want. They pay for the server space, it is their opinion, and there is clearly no pretense of objectivity. And, you can choose to read them or not.
so yeah, professional Journalists (as opposed to bloggers like Pixeleen and Prok) are ethically responsible to reasonably present all sites of a debate. And in this ‘griefers vs. vigilante” debate, it doesn’t take a professional journalist to see that there are two sides to this story…sides that are omitted in Pixeleen’s and Kalel’s respective blogs.
And on a related note, at some point it would interesting to see a discussion of academic ethics and SL… Hypothetically: at what point is it being professionally irresponsible to present the results of academic research when, largely unknown to your academic audience, you are actually a True Believer, an active participant, and, heaven forbid, a partisan hack within the very subject you are researching and claim authority over as a academic professional?
James Doe
Nov 10th, 2011
@ All
In the more than six years of the Herald’s existence, it has gained a reputation as one of the hardest-hitting news sources covering virtual worlds. Unflinching both in its taste for a “DRAMATIC STORY” and its demand that those who govern virtual worlds do so fairly, the Herald is often called a muckraking tabloid or worse, but its loyal readers (numbering several thousand per day) love — and often love to hate — the unique service it provides: to take a good, close, often SNARKY LOOK at the online worlds that are becoming a more and more important part of everyone’s offline lives.
So forgive me but how is this any different than what Prok writes as well? So many of you have bent noses over Prok but seems to me she/he is just the other side of coin that the Herald is.
Senban Babii
Nov 10th, 2011
@Paul
“but explicitly presented just one side of his stories, which is what you claimed is acceptable journalistic practice.”
Show me where I said this was acceptable journalistic practice?
Also the Godwin point was humour. Perhaps you should get someone to explain the concept to you. I’d try but as you have shown a continuing trend of willfully misreading virtually everything I or anyone else writes I think it would be wasted effort.
Seriously though, thanks for playing
Next up on Heraldo, we’ll be talking to a man who is convinced that Meeroos are in fact FBI listening stations. Find out more right after these important messages.
James Doe
Nov 10th, 2011
@Senban Babii
How is attacking someones SL persona on a blog worse?
Lets go threw this again.
1.) Placing Pornographic Images in a PG sim is against Secondlife TOS/CS and the people who did this did it to be mean. It wasn’t a joke.
When you have Teens in SL now they were trying to cause havoc and being immature. They deserve to be called griefers and suspended from SL for violating the labs TOS/CS.
2.) Destroying someones Prim builds using a platform bug may be amusing to the person but, it is still considered griefing.
3.) Throwing around cubes in a club is annoying as well, and the club owner has every right to kick you out of the club and file an AR.
Blogging
1.) please go back and look at some blogs about many media stars or the face book pages of the I hate so and so. People love to write about others. You can either rage against it or ignore them. you can even take them to court.
2.) You have actions you can take against them in a legal manner.
But then your breaking that RL /SL wall that several have spoken about here. If you go and write hateful and mean things about James Doe what do i care. Its my SL persona. Its not my real name or is it? But you have you have a write to make that blog if you desire.
I guess you care more about your SL persona than I do about mine.
@Bunjie
If LL were to go to court over Prokofy’s blog then the Herald here too would be in it as well as would SLU forums and a host of others. How many people trash Linden Labs?
I will have to say at least Prokofy does explore sl more than the herald does now these days. he shows the good stuff occasionally or has an opinion on something new that sl is doing.
You may hate him/her but they have every right to be in SL as long as they do not beak the TOS/SL. Yes she got a temp suspension but he is back now. So move on with your own SL.
Reader
Nov 10th, 2011
Oh Wow! The low hanging fruit parade is SO f**king thick today that it is beyond the scope of your typical Herald bumper crop. Reader scratches her chin pondering where to start. Too much to cover so I’ll go lean kashi – - -
Bunjie. Obsess much? It would be simply too easy for me, or anyone else for that matter, to throw out a proverbial TL;DR on that last bit of spew you graced the Herald pages with. You practically set a record on serious ranting in such an insightful fashion.
Not insightful in a valuable, story relevant way but rather “revealing” kind of insightful. What was it that the PN always said so eloquently? Serious Business Much or something like that. Quit taking cartoonlife so damn seriously ban-tard. Really. It’s over. Go play minecraft or better yet, unplug your internet and go outside.
Sen. How do? Standard Sen-blather presentation again so I will let those targeted rest on their laurels in anticipation of your next earthshaking contribution (NOT) but suffice it to repeat again, Serious Business much?
Glad to see you switched-up your avatar photo to hide that receding hairline though. GJ
JD and Paul. Glad to see you guys staying the course and taking the high road on this. So many valid and potent points about “editorialism” vs. journalism, about THIS & THAT and about two sides to this never ending conflict as it relates to Second Life. And to be clear, it is ONLY Second Life because much to no ones surprise, coverage of other virtual worlds is devoid of coverage because THIS is where the drama is. The jig is up on this whole fiasco and the diminished activity all around speaks volumes to how it all went caput in like 6 short weeks. Don’t believe me, take a look at the straggling idiots over on SLU still crying over spilt milk. The crybaby fest has shrunk to a collective of OCD repetitive types on the reveal. The lynch party for the stooge brigade died a certain death with measurable outcome to be sure. JLU retooled, Prok took a much needed holiday and casually returned and the idiots on the opposing side only re-established themselves as the impotent and fixated malcreants that they really are – were – and will continue to be.
See it’s pretty simple folks when you take a step back and review the natural course of things; those that blog & griff to their hearts content primarily focused on Second Life as their stage, end up revealing much bias, serious business and butthurt. That’s OK though because it’s revealing editorialism. All is fair in love & war as they say. And no one said or set rules that these crusading idiots couldn’t sit and reveal more & more about themselves in such a splendid display. One thing that is certain – the names have not been changed, quite the contrary, most of the critical names have been revealed to exonerate the innocent and implicate the guilty.
Anyone still paying attention (and those numbers are actually pretty low btw..) might think the dust has long settled and this deal is over. Far be it for me to try and convince the idiot brigade otherwise – but oh well and whatever – I’ll say it anyhow
pleasantries are over – Game On
Paul
Nov 10th, 2011
Senban, you said that I “have shown a continuing trend of willfully misreading virtually everything I or anyone else writes.”
Actually I think the opposite is true. Out of curiosity, I started reading carefully everything you and the others have been saying and trying to make sense about what the basic messages are.
As a result, and since I am not part of your clique of griefers and griefer apologists, the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of yours and Tux’s arguments stands in sharp relief (as does Pixeleen’s omission of griefers as another example of “Little Hitlers”). Don’t get me wrong, I am not calling you disingenuous. Since you all seem to be true believers, in this “suspended or new morality” excuse for bad behavior, I have no doubt that you guys actually believe what you say (rather then being willfully ridiculous).