Understanding the “Little Hitlers” of Second Life
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/10/11 at 1:50 am
I’ve long wondered at the connection between Second Life’s endless supply of over-the-top drama and the strange psychology of certain players -- particularly those seriously invested in “defending” Linden Lab and “policing” the Second Life grid.
What is it about Second Life that attracts and retains obsessive-compulsive meta-gamerz who can’t keep their play inside the game?
Do large land tier payments to the Lab trump civil discourse even when Lab staff are swept up in an ugly cycle of Twitter/Google bombing payback as we saw with the LabRatuOut mess? After a concerted effort to attract the Lab’s attention to the recent excesses of the Justice League Unlimited, some of my friends in The Pink Hands faction are getting a bit cynical.
the Pink Hands faction is becoming cynical about Linden Lab
The golden rule seems to be in effect - those spending the virtual gold, rule. Perhaps Rod Humble is just hoping he can finish his new not-SL mobile-device-enabled game before the house of cards falls.
Meanwhile, consider notoriously toxic trolls such as Jumpman Lane, Kalel Venkman’s Justice League Unlimited vigilantes, or Prokofy Neva -- and the level of effort required to spend years tracking and data-mining other players or mounting an endless series of intensive blog, Twitter, and Google bombing campaigns designed to humiliate and destroy enemies.
Forgiveness and redemption seem to be alien concepts for some trolls upstanding Second Life residents, which implies a deep psychological need is being addressed. What exactly is going on?
A recent article in The Economist describing how “quite ordinary people will succumb to bad behaviour if the circumstances are right” may hold some answers.
According to the article, Nathanael Fast of the University of Southern California and colleagues at Northwestern and Stanford universities ran a series of experiments to see if social circumstances around power and status have the potential to create “little Hitlers” who annoy and frustrate others for their own gratification - or are certain individuals predisposed to this sort of behaviour simply gravitating into situations where they can behave badly?
The experiments randomly placed participants into one of 4 groups: high power/high status, low power/low status, low power/high status, and high power/low status. Participants were given the option of forcing other participants to perform humiliating actions -- or not.
Those in the low status/high power group chose significantly more demeaning tasks to impose onto other participants, while those in the other 3 groups did not exhibit this behaviour.
Does this mean that the more extreme guardians of Second Life feel they are in a position of low status in real life and are compensating by harassing and humiliating those within their reach?
If, as the study suggests, the combination of low status and high power is a recipe for trouble, I am beginning to think the celebrated free social media tools which empower those dedicated to cultivating their Internet notoriety may contain the seeds of their own destruction as the "little Hitlers" of the social media use their online power to trash everyone else.
Do you still want to play Web 2.0 after watching Jumpman Lane’s Twitter assault on Stroker Serpentine, LabRatuOut’s assault on Esbee Linden, or after following Prokofy Neva’s carefully crafted Google bombing attacks on all and sundry? How do you feel after learning that Kalel Venkman is still expanding and unsuccessfully attempting to secure his Brainiac wiki data mine?
Is this the sort of game you want to play?
Senban Babii
Nov 2nd, 2011
@Bunjie
“just so Linden Lab can get a few 100usd from her bank.”
Well apparently they’re not getting it
Bunjie
Nov 2nd, 2011
Support this, end this now I’m sick and tired of this bullshit she brings to the table this is 2011 not 2006. If you’re reading this and don’t ever comment here just for once stick your neck out and love the post on rodvik’s wall or comment on what shes done to you or how you feel about her business practices and behavior and Linden Labs lack of real enforcement against her, you should not be seen as bad for doing so by anyone other than her for having a complaint with how Linden Lab deal with her disruptive behavior.
You know she has to go, it’s better for everyone that shes no longer a part of the future of second life, there can be no future in it with her forcing everyone to think and focus on her.
We all have projects, businesses and fun through new ideas to get on with and things to do that are important to us, I don’t like the constant social rape I’m experiencing by her name constantly being floated like a turd that just won’t go away.
What good is integrated social tools and following others if that social parasitic turd is flushed into my stream every time she spouts off about this and that bullshit? bringing back memory’s of the last 4 years etc. this is one reason why I was worried because I could see her bullshit would be spread far and wide with the new tools like it does on Twitter and other social mediums but SL needed the tools, and one of the reasons why I was sick of twitter and following about Second Life (why I purged and blocked all SL users in the past) sick, tired, done.
It wont cause a griefer free for all as with her removed as a target most of the alleged bad won’t even bother coming in, and if you’ve seen the state of what she alleges is griefing would you really be afraid of that? as most residents with half a brain close build off anyway! and have either bots or staff to deal with land sales and group invites.
Come on, her latest blog entry shows she clearly has to go or be dealt with by the same supposed rules Linden Lab sporadically enforce on us for things we don’t even do.
https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4eb12fe3ad961f000100579d
Occupy Rodvik’s wall now! let’s talk about her one more time to show Linden Lab that we the people don’t like how they deal with her for the sake of raking in a few hundred dollars that fails us and comes at our social & support need expenses which is the greater expense of Linden Lab to have to clean up after her problems therefor depleting their support resources (all the stuff we don’t see over years, her blog being a snapshot of the burn out she causes on Linden employees).
Their lax rules don’t seem to apply to her anymore than her numerous “blocks from Linden Labs Jira/forums/etc” that don’t ever rank up towards a blanket ban as you and I know most residents would have received a blanket ban for disrupting any section of Second Life’s service the way she has done over the years, but there seem no attempt to enforced one on her other than “billing issues”.
How can Linden Lab continue this path of letting her disrupt each part of Second Life as if they’re separate and don’t impact on the whole, when for everyone else it’s a perma-ban for even being accused of doing such.
This is causing far too much social unrest and disruption that has to end for us to focus on our in-world lives moving into 2012, the real world economy is bad enough without the price of doing business in world or being in world through taking part in any normal activity, being the chance Prokofy will ruin it for us or waste our time better spent on improving things we’re working on.
Bunjie
Nov 2nd, 2011
By “Their lax rules don’t seem to apply to her anymore, unless they do” I mean she gets the least amount of enforcement against her as if they’re either afraid of her or shes protected and they just want to temp suspend with the minimal amount of drama resulting, which is far lower enforcement than everyone else gets for far less alleged activities.
This is clearly either all about money or all about her voice in Second Life, and if it’s the latter then does her voice over a month about her ban compare worse in PR to the years and years of social abuse against other residents?
How much longer do we have to be shafted for her business practices and mental behavior that’s like a 3 year old having a tantrum?
What must she do that triggers the “we can kick her out for no reason and any reason without telling you” section in the TOS?
When that allegedly applies to us when we don’t do anything but exist in world and she complains about it and her fabricated mental outlook.
I don’t want to discriminate against anyone and I love the fact SL gives freedom to the disabled and mentally challenged, I support that but not at the expense of everyone elses business, lives and existence in-world through behavior not fitting for a resident to get away with for M O N E Y aka Advertising her low rentals at our expense and sucking everything out of Second Life while only filling it with air headed ideas that are bloated corpses that have long since transcended the useability of Second Life.
Dear Prokofy Neva, CLOSE YOUR LAND, SHUT THE FUCK UP or FUCK OFF.
Bunjie
Nov 2nd, 2011
Here you go! he defends her!
coral.gausman “Can’t you guys just leave her alone?”
7 days ago! at the bottom of the post.
https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4ea781c4fae4830001003330
And now hes banned from her land and blogged about for going their at her invitation via following her posts, like she invites everyone else to either grief her or visit!
Reader
Nov 2nd, 2011
Bunjie, REALLY !!!!
Prok obsess much idiot?
Contain that shit and show some backbone.
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
@Tux
you said:
“So if I think you are a ‘jackass’ in SL, you will change?
What if being a bully is the objective of the game?”
Bullying is not the objective of the game. The objective is explicitly open-ended and you decide for yourself what your own objective is. If you decide that YOUR objective is to be a bully, and test the limits of that against a TOS that explicit asks you not to bother other people but that is poorly enforced, well, that goes to the “Little Hitler” idea. What is it about you that would condition that kind of choice? As I said, to me, deciding to be a bully is indicative of poor emotional and behavioral regulation, basically immaturity with a touch of self loathing thrown in. And the “Little Hitler” argument is that Second Life provides a small arena where you can get away with bad behaviors, which makes someone who is largely powerless in RL feel better about themselves. So in my opinion, someone who decides for themselves that being a bully, a griefer, or a vigilante is the best use of their time in SL is an immature adult and a Little Hitler.
I have always found this to be fascinating. In a world of infinite possibilities, some people choose to be butterflies, large rodents, or sailors, while many others, strangely, choose to be jerks. LOL
As to your first question, If a griefer thinks I am being a jackass, then I will not change, because the only place a griefer will find me in SL is on my own sims building my own things, or else, if I am in someone else’s parcel, I am doing my best to participate or respect the theme, rp, or tone they have set up. If the owner of another sim for some reason asks me to leave, I will leave (actually, this has never happened to me, so I must be doing something right). I am certainly not perfect, but I do try to have basic respect for fellow travelers. It is not my ‘objective’ to go onto into other people’s SL and bully them just to see if I can get away with it or just for some laughs.
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
@Bunji,
You seem rather annoyed and upset right now, and I think the cause of that is that you are bothered by the actions of another resident. I don’t know for sure, but maybe she is just exploring a possibility of different morals, or even no morals at all. What he is doing is alright, because he can get away with it, you can’t stop him, and he probably finds it funny that you are in such discomfort. Making you feel that way is apparently a valid objective for someone to pursue in SL. Tux can explain it to you better then I can.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Nov 2nd, 2011
Bunjie @ “You know she has to go, it’s better for everyone that shes no longer a part of the future of second life, there can be no future in it with her forcing everyone to think and focus on her.”
Wow does this thread deliver on the irony.
Reader
Nov 2nd, 2011
Norton, man you got that right!
Thing is, do the obsess-O-types get it though?
Only one word comes to mind and is ironic in it’s own right
“Nope”
Jumpman Lane
Nov 2nd, 2011
yup Occupy Rodvik’s wall! hehehehehe chat spam! brilliant ideas. maybe u could just keep playin the same gesture over and over if ya happen upon him in werld! y’all pink lady finger dudes are comedy gold!
Tux
Nov 2nd, 2011
@ Paul
‘What is it about you that would condition that kind of choice?’
I didn’t say me, I said what if? Through all of this you have implied I am a bully, yet nothing substantial reinforces your implications. Because I decide to counter your posts does not make me a bully. And when you run out of steam and resort to petty digs I remain cool, and chuckle. Because for me SL is a game. That’s all.
‘And the “Little Hitler” argument is that Second Life provides a small arena where you can get away with bad behaviors, which makes someone who is largely powerless in RL feel better about themselves.’
I disagree. It has nothing to do with bad behaviour, it has everything to do with self (LL) empowerment without recourse. And that is down to LL and the way they allow the little hitlers to form. Rodvik recently said in an interview on the BBC ‘I think the secret is empowering people within the world’. While this demonstrates my point, it is in fact inaccurate. He should have said: The secret is allowing the players to empower themselves. However, there should be a limit. At present there is not. LL really needs to figure it out.
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
@Tux
Being “empowered” is indeed empowering, because then have to make your own choice of behaviors to follow. If you are a mature person, you might choose to behave in a way that is constructive, generous, and sensitive to the needs and wants of your fellow residents. If you are immature, require excessive amounts of attention, lack empathy for your fellow residents, and lack the ability to regulate your own emotions and behaviors, you might take advantage of being ‘empowered’ and act like a jackass just because you can, and because you might not get caught. As I said, being a bully is NOT the objective of the game. It is your choice, and only one among many.
No, you didn’t say “you” but you offered your statement as a hypothetical, and I answered in a similar manner. Your use of rhetorical bullshit, rationalization, and side stepping is often impressive, Tux, but trust me, I am not intibbler, rubble, or another one of your flying monkeys (flying pterodactyls???). So if the shoe fits, wear it. And before you cry a river more about your innocence, or about your wounded feelings because I mocked your avi, don’t forget, I have read everything you have said, and your protestations of being an innocent bystander have zero credibility in my eyes. Ok..now tell me you don’t care what I think.
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
“LL really needs to figure it out” yeah, let’s turn it into a total regulated police state because people can’t figure out how to behave themselves in a reasonable manner. So much for the brave new virtual world and the 2004 idealism all those old timers like to wax nostalgic about!
GreenLantern Excelsior
Nov 2nd, 2011
@ Bunjie
“You know she has to go, it’s better for everyone that shes no longer a part of the future of second life, there can be no future in it with her forcing everyone to think and focus on her.”
GreenLantern Excelsior
Nov 2nd, 2011
Oops…
“You know she has to go, it’s better for everyone that shes no longer a part of the future of second life, there can be no future in it with her forcing everyone to think and focus on her.”
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
In other words, leave Prok alone and go find something productive to do.
Reader
Nov 2nd, 2011
@GLE
” – - @ Bunjie
“You know she has to go, it’s better for everyone that shes no longer a part of the future of second life, there can be no future in it with her forcing everyone to think and focus on her.” – - ”
Sounds a lot like Tux being described there doesn’t it?
Oh and btw, since you are late to the party – that makes you Dartanian.
@Tux,
You are a fake and a cartoon poser extraordinaire. You should simply tell everyone about your medical impairments so they can all start feeling sorry for you now. THE COMPLETE LIST.
It’s your only way out.
Yep
Nov 2nd, 2011
GreenLantern Excelsior
Nov 2nd, 2011
“Oops…
In other words, leave Prok alone and go find something productive to do.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17hEcSsv57g&feature=related
Tux
Nov 2nd, 2011
@ Paul
Not all ‘mature’ people (as age defined) are all that mature (mentally). And at the same time, those ‘immature’ (also as age defined) are sometimes far more mature than others. Age is not indicative of behaviour IMO. I find it hysterical that people attempt to categorise individuals. Especially in terms of Second Life where residents are ageless. I remember a 13 year old back in ’05 who was later invited to the mentor program. She is still on SL and doing quite well.
‘Your use of rhetorical bullshit, rationalization, and side stepping is often impressive, Tux, but trust me, I am not intibbler, rubble, or another one of your flying monkeys (flying pterodactyls???)’
I rationalise because your hypothetical examples are irrational. When all around are discussing a game you and your cohorts introduce an irrelevant real life example. As for flying monkeys, I have no idea what your point is? They certainly are not ‘mine’.
‘yeah, let’s turn it into a total regulated police state because people can’t figure out how to behave themselves in a reasonable manner.’
Lol, there you go again. For a game host to clarify and enforce their rules is the evolution of the game. You cannot relate that to law and the police. But go ahead, I don’t think I have had so many laughs reading one thread.
Oh and guess what . . . I don’t care what you think!
Tux
Nov 2nd, 2011
@ Reader
‘Oh and btw, since you are late to the party – that makes you Dartanian.’
Dogtanian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-xO72s5EBY
‘You should simply tell everyone about your medical impairments so they can all start feeling sorry for you now. THE COMPLETE LIST. It’s your only way out.’
Firstly, Tux has no medical impairments (other than being dead). Secondly, I need no one to feel sorry for me, it is not relative. And finally, way out of what?
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
Now now, Tux, I know you are not that dense, and that you are continuing to play your game of obfuscation. Nonetheless, as you well know, I refer to ‘maturity’ and ‘immaturity’ with reference to behavior, not a calendar age. A ‘mature’ individual can regulate their emotions and their behavior and is empathic to the point of view of other people in their community. A child or an immature adult can not do these things without actual checks in place like a police force or a parent.
What is the irrelevant life example? SL is a game. Other adults are playing that game, and sometimes have their gameplay spoiled by other actual adults under the guise of ‘griefing’ or “vigilantism”. Those griefers and vigilantes are immature bullies who justify their bad behavior with elaborate rationalizations that often involve invoking comic book style heroes and villains….Superman (venkman) and The Penquin (Tux).
I am happy to provide clarification about the flying monkey quote if you are confused. After reading the Herald for a little while, it is clear that Intlibber, Rubble, and several others are hysterical and not very bright advocates for whatever perspective justifies their own selfish and bad behavior. They are ‘your’ flying monkeys because unlike them, you actually spend time creating elaborate and grandiose rationale for the bad behavior of grievers towards fellow game players. They, instead, just revel seem to revel in acting badly without any actual thought as to how to justify it, until you manage to throw them a bone or two. Thus, they come off as shrieking sycophants to Tux Winkler, who sits in glory in the center of his Pink Hand/Wrong Hands photograph in the article. Sorry for the mixed metaphors, but if you don’t get the specific allusion, it is to the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz who had a cadre of barely sentient flying monkeys to do her dirty deeds. Is that movie part of the culture in the UK as it is here in the states? I am not sure. Here is a fun clip if you are unfamiliar with the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESI19h4wDo
Finally, I knew you didn’t care what I think. That is why you keep responding to my posts.
Tux
Nov 2nd, 2011
@ Paul
‘Tux, I know you are not that dense’
You give me too much credit, I am not clever by any standards.
‘What is the irrelevant life example? . . .’
The reference to making SL a police state?
Thanks for the clarification, but it is wrong. For a start I don’t play well with others. I am in no position of power. I contribute nothing to TPH or TWH. And I am not responsible for the picture. It was photoshopped from individual pictures. The positioning is random. And I don’t follow movie cultures.
‘Finally, I knew you didn’t care what I think. That is why you keep responding to my posts.’
I respond, and keep responding, for the entertainment value alone. It provides a welcome break from my work. It allows me to continue with a smile on my face. It also keeps this article popular. It is a topic that was born before the internet began and will probably out last it too.
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
It provides a welcome break from my work<<< you and me both!
Tux
Nov 2nd, 2011
And on that note, it should also be mentioned that Prok remains banned. More things making me chuckle.
Jumpman Lane
Nov 2nd, 2011
k, tux queen of saps, if ya really thought prok was bannedya wouldnt waste time prim litterin her soon to be reclaimed land lmao! i think you juwt cant pass up ANY excuse to drop a few prims where they dont belong, since your a world class, internationally known internet hacker…oh er sorry , WORLD CLASS INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN PRIM LITTERER! WITH YA PINK LADY FINGERS! heheheh! sap!
Reader
Nov 2nd, 2011
“And on that note, it should also be mentioned that Prok …”
You do realize that ALL the online forums that talk SL smack these days have covered this repeatedly, right? So you then realize now just how supremely idiotic you look regurgitating the same prok-fixated crap in conjunction with this latest mystery, right again? And finally, it should be glaringly obvious to most everyone (other than the idiot brigade, three stooges or The Wrong Handed Haphazards) that you have self esteem issues, social stratification issues and obsessive compulsive disorder issues – and not just problems with your eyes and muscles – RIGHT?
and you answer…
“Nope” (< – - – - – - oh the irony)
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
@ Reader
‘ranting’
And your response gave it all the more worth! Thank you, my laughter was slow in coming today!
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
@ Jumpy
‘kjdaslbauierbz’
Good job Jumpy, I got to K this time. See you can improve.
As for my e-reputation, it is much like Second Life, player generated. Unlike your’s, people listen to you for one reason, they want the fame of cracking the Jumpy code. They seem to think once deciphered there will be some important message hidden inside. I fear they will be disappointed.
Are you still jealous of TPH? Is is because you can’t sway them with your disrespectful talk, or because you can’t buy them like some cheap pro? I guess we will never know because no one is able to decipher your random keyboard punches.
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
And Prok returns!
IntLibber
Nov 3rd, 2011
Paul,
I never had any bad behavior until LL decided to steal a quarter million dollar business from me. What you see is righteous indignation, vengance unleashed.
As for supposed “griefers”, griefing is just the result of crowdsourcing your QA and governance policy testing. Bullshit in, bullshit out.
Linden God: “Oh? You are using the game the way it is designed but not the way we wanted it played? You’re fault, BANNED.”
Jimmy
Nov 3rd, 2011
Prokofy has returned from a week-long ban apparently.
Jimmy
Nov 3rd, 2011
GreenLantern Excelsior: “In other words, leave Prok alone and go find something productive to do.”
GLE, in other words, leave the hispanics (known to you as “illegals”) alone and go find something productive to do instead of playing cop. You are the only RL stalker taking part in this discussion, aren’t you?
(Trying to think of a way to insult the State of Arizona lol)
IntLibber
Nov 3rd, 2011
Actually Jimmy, if he actually got a job with the border patrol, he’d be too damn busy to mess with the poor kids in SL anymore, and his dreams of being a REAL cop will be realized…
Senban Babii
Nov 3rd, 2011
@Tux
“And Prok returns!”
I’d like to take a moment to thank everyone who made this year’s #agridwithoutprok event so successful. Already this event is attracting new sponsors and we’re hoping that #gridwithoutprok2012 will see us recognised as one of the primary virtual world events alongside such greats as Burning Man and Hulkageddon.
Planning for #agridwithoutprok2012 has already begun, get involved!
GG3
Nov 3rd, 2011
Complete Garbage
Reader
Nov 3rd, 2011
Tux must have a picture of Prok’s backside hanging over his bed. It’s the only explanation.
The difference between Tux and Prok? Prok contributes to the revenue stream of LL whereas Tux tries to destroy it. Prok has avid followers because he gets a lot of it right ,whereas Tux is purely a troll extraordinaire with more than half of his dedicated followers are actually his own alts in world and on blogs. And most importantly, Prok Lives and Tux Dies. Do the math..
Hey Tux, I’m in Ahern, come by and see me.
I’m the one with the purple hair and the clipboard.
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
@ Senban
#agridwithoutprok2012 is a wonderful concept.
@ Reader
I have no RL pictures, they ruin my game you see. I like to play with game characters. Not their meat-selves.
There are way too many differences to list. I have no use for alt’s in world other than the one I us to keep in touch with old friends. I certainly don’t use them on blogs. I rarely us blogs anyway. Prok does live, and Tux died, however Prok makes Tux a digital-martyr by continuing to blame the virtual worlds problems on him. Not that I mind btw, it is impressive I made enough of an impact to be remembered. And there was I thinking I was a nobody.
Finally Reader, believe it or not, I was doing real life things. Like buying a firework display for my children. Even if I wasn’t, I assure you I wouldn’t be interested in visiting you. I still have building to do on my sim and a lot of scripting to do besides. As you are well aware, I am not in Second Life for the social element. Certainly not socialising with people I find uninteresting. Go hunt e-fame elsewhere.
Reader
Nov 3rd, 2011
“Go hunt e-fame elsewhere.”
REALLY !?!?!?
One shouldn’t speak of things one doesn’t practice.
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
Oh reader I am disappointed, I gave you so much and you come back with the last line!
It seems you have me all wrong, I do not hunt or in fact want e-fame. It means I have to sacrifice my account to an unknown. And it seems Tux has taken on his own status without my help.
Paul
Nov 3rd, 2011
It is interesting how Tux describes his SL as characters. The original Tux is apparently long gone for some reason, so now, he has a bunch of alts who he develops as game characters, some of which get banned, and, depending on who you believe, these alts grief people, or they just ‘visit friends’ and “build on his sim.”
It seems that the message being sent is that these online characters are very ephemeral, and don’t mean much to the real person behind “Tux Winkler.” It is just a game, after all, and the same behavioral standards do not apply there as in the real world. The characters themselves are inconsequential, merely cartoon characters that can come and go while the ‘real’ person behind the computer is busy with ‘real’ things like buying fireworks for his children and polishing the hood ornament on his Bentley.
It occurs to me that this kind of impression management fits nicely with Tux’s rationalizations that support his notion that it is fine to behave badly towards people in SL just for giggles and because you can get away with it. After all, it is just an ephemeral cartoon character behaving badly, not a real person, ergo, the people that that cartoon character is behaving badly towards suffer no actual hurt as a result of the bad behavior, as they too are just cartoon characters … they couldn’t be actual people who are victimized while minding their own business playing a game, because if they were, it would be wrong to randomly behave badly towards them.
Did I get it right, Tux?
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
@ Paul
No lol, I have my main and one alt. Hardly a bunch. And I don’t have a Bentley, lol. Although I do have a hood ornament (again). But I have a valeter, I do not wash cars.
I wouldn’t suggest my accounts are short lived btw, my first was over two years, Tux was four years, and my third is still going.
I am still confused with your fascination with my children. It seems every chance you get you mention them. What is with that?
Paul
Nov 3rd, 2011
Tux,
I am not interested in your children at all. I have found it useful to think about ‘parenting’ in these posts generally because, as a father myself, I often think about the concordance between our own actions and how we try to explain things to and teach our children to be responsible adults. Thus, if one accepts the idea that it is alright to be a bully or to behave badly just because it is a ‘game’ and the people in the game don’t really get hurt because it is ‘just a game’, I wonder how to explain that to a child that one is raising. I try to imagine what it must be like to explain to children that one set of basic manners applies in one setting, but not in other settings where the people are ‘fake.’
In this present context, I brought up your children because in just the third to last post you explained to the entire internet what you had been up to with your children this weekend. Along with your explanation of why it is ok to be a jackass to people because it is ‘just a game’ and that RL is offlimits, you seem to go through pains to explain to us what your RL is actually like, and how you are a wealthy family man who is really too busy to take these internet games seriously. I am interested in impression management on the internet, so this contrast…between the online character who espouses an ideology that makes the griefing of innocent bystanders morally acceptable but yet claims he never griefs and the wealthy family man who cares not a whit about these internet shenanigans or ‘e-fame’ but yet manages to be one of most frequent posters in an online forum (here and the SLU) in a lynch mob that happens to be a chief rival of SL griefers.
/me shrugs
Tux
Nov 3rd, 2011
@ Paul
I would hope as a father you teach your children, as I do, that there are different laws/rules for different situations. And that is all I need say on that point.
I didn’t say I was wealthy, you assumed that. I am, as it happens, quite comfortable. And at present I am quite busy. But that is by choice.
I post frequently because I enjoy your, and Readers, responses. I enjoy reading your frustration, upset, anger, or whatever else you portray in your post. You see a lot of what you are portraying as fact is in fact merely assumptions. You are assuming to know my ideology, my morals, etc etc. I find this highly entertaining.
However, at the end of the day, you yourself blow griefing out of all proportion. The majority of people have never experienced it. Those that have often laugh about it afterwards. It is a minuscule moment on the timeline of their avatars life. I am sure they will experience far worse for longer periods in real life. Ask any of the more experienced players, you know those who knew the Second Life of old, how bad griefing is. I but every single one shrugs.
But do you know why Linden Lab does very little about griefers? Because they need them. They need them more than the likes of the JLU. But the JLU and Prok provide a lure to the griefers. It is (or was until very recently) the griefers who made the discussions when all was quiet. This is why LL doesn’t fix the system. And why we (those labelled as griefers) are on first name basis with many Linden’s. We are known, remembered, and allowed back each time LL feels they must re-establish faith in the resis. And don’t think for a minute LL doesn’t know exactly what is going on. And that they don’t laugh and joke about it with us.
potosi abonwood
Nov 3rd, 2011
Leave it to GLE to make a nazi comparison to people wanting Prok out of SL. She’s a complete and utter bitch to nearly everybody, is constantly making up lies and false claims about other people and spews vile out in a constrant high stream flow.
So GLE, yes people want Prok gone but for good reasons. Just like people want you gone, also for very good reasons. Both of you stalkers should be shown the door out.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Nov 3rd, 2011
Reader @ “Tux must have a picture of Prok’s backside hanging over his bed. It’s the only explanation.”
Mass Prok lust seems like the only logical explanation why they hang on to her every word. Must be she has that Slavic “head like a cabbage, mouth like a wolverine with rabbis” love goddess thing going for her that keeps then hooked. Even Prok mentions they drop a disturbing number of pictures of her real life backside on her land.
Paul
Nov 4th, 2011
@ Tux
As I said, I am interested in impression management, and you are an unending source of rationalization for griefing, so I keep asking you questions and you keep explaining to me why it is o.k. to be rude to people in one context and wrong to be rude to people in another. Just think of me as Jane Goodall, and you are the chimpanzee. Please continue, since you just added to your rationale: Apparently, it is “ok” to grief people, because it really doesn’t happen that much and it doesn’t happen to too many people. So logically, that implies being rude to strangers and interfering with their enjoyment of gameplay just for laughs and because you can get away with it is good or bad by the amount that takes place: a little bit of jackassery is ok, but at some point, it theoretically becomes too much. Do you (the hypothetical you) teach your children (your hypothetical children) that is o.k. to steal one comic book from a store because nobody will miss it and you can get away with it, but it is wrong to rob a bank, just because you are likely to get caught and that is really wrong as opposed to just a little bit wrong?
Another question: How come when people argue in comments and blogs like this, they so often resort to accusation of pedophilia? Is that just some kind of sophomoric insult? Or are you all truly obsessed with pedophilia? And similarly, why is it that it seems like that people score points in these kinds of debates by trying to pry the fact out of their opponent the he/she/it is feeling “frustration, upset, anger”? Is it part of the machismo of being a griefer or an e-famous celebrity to be steely, cool, and collected? By pretending to have no feelings yourself, does it make it easier to dehumanize the feelings of others and treat them badly?
Peter Pedant
Nov 4th, 2011
Can we have some news please?
Thanks.
Tux
Nov 4th, 2011
@ Paul
Your interest in impression management is flawed imo. Due to the fact you have no clear defining line between a game and your real life. As for children, hypothetical or not, they should be taught that they are to know and understand the laws/rules for a given situation prior to enter said given situation. Thus encouraging them to think and discover. You see one law/rule may not apply to all situations. This is true in both real life and games.
I don’t believe I have accused anyone of paedophilia, but if the person shows signs of interest are present. I believe it is better to err on the side of caution. Again, I don’t pry. I voice the impression I get. And I laugh about it. It’s not about pretending to have no feelings, or dehumanising one’s self. It is about looking at a screen and not seeing reality. Just out of interest, have you seen the latest Daden bots? I am guessing you would see a person there too. You see, I don’t, each avatar is merely a game character. Human controlled or not. You cannot hurt them, they are just code. Code that can be manipulated. It is no big deal.
That which you take so seriously other’s find funny, including Lindens. You should watch my Teeple Linden video, both him and I laughed hard at it. But I am guessing you find it offensive. That is your problem not mine.
Senban Babii
Nov 4th, 2011
@Potosi Abonwood
“Leave it to GLE to make a nazi comparison to people wanting Prok out of SL.”
In all fairness we do actually want to annex Ravenglass so we can increase our lebensraum.
lmao
Nov 4th, 2011
no seriously…lol you really think sl will be a better place without prok, jlu, etc? you guys look pretty dumb to my eyes. the problem on that silly virtual world is LL, ruining it day by day, doing money laundring with gambling and porn, worshipping those lamers “wouldnt call them hackers at all” that hides behind mafias and help them having servers running somehow.
one thing i know for sure, philip is one of the smartest dude of the planet, making money taking advantage of poor stupid players … you guys think you part of a dream but thats a nightmare, stop tlaking bout this nd that, leave that shit, LL are a bunch of criminals.
paul
Nov 4th, 2011
Cool Tux, more rationalization!! So now, if a random authority figure you know approves of your bad behavior, that makes it ok, even though it is against the rules. Got it! I will add it to the list.
Impression management is a person’s efforts to manage how the are perceived by others… how can an ‘interest’ be ‘flawed’? an ‘interest’ just ‘is’. Do you mean, rather, that you disagree with me when I say that being a jackass to other people just for laughs, just because you can, just because you only do it ‘a little bit’, just because a Linden thought it was funny, is still being a jackass?