Understanding the “Little Hitlers” of Second Life
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/10/11 at 1:50 am
I’ve long wondered at the connection between Second Life’s endless supply of over-the-top drama and the strange psychology of certain players -- particularly those seriously invested in “defending” Linden Lab and “policing” the Second Life grid.
What is it about Second Life that attracts and retains obsessive-compulsive meta-gamerz who can’t keep their play inside the game?
Do large land tier payments to the Lab trump civil discourse even when Lab staff are swept up in an ugly cycle of Twitter/Google bombing payback as we saw with the LabRatuOut mess? After a concerted effort to attract the Lab’s attention to the recent excesses of the Justice League Unlimited, some of my friends in The Pink Hands faction are getting a bit cynical.
the Pink Hands faction is becoming cynical about Linden Lab
The golden rule seems to be in effect - those spending the virtual gold, rule. Perhaps Rod Humble is just hoping he can finish his new not-SL mobile-device-enabled game before the house of cards falls.
Meanwhile, consider notoriously toxic trolls such as Jumpman Lane, Kalel Venkman’s Justice League Unlimited vigilantes, or Prokofy Neva -- and the level of effort required to spend years tracking and data-mining other players or mounting an endless series of intensive blog, Twitter, and Google bombing campaigns designed to humiliate and destroy enemies.
Forgiveness and redemption seem to be alien concepts for some trolls upstanding Second Life residents, which implies a deep psychological need is being addressed. What exactly is going on?
A recent article in The Economist describing how “quite ordinary people will succumb to bad behaviour if the circumstances are right” may hold some answers.
According to the article, Nathanael Fast of the University of Southern California and colleagues at Northwestern and Stanford universities ran a series of experiments to see if social circumstances around power and status have the potential to create “little Hitlers” who annoy and frustrate others for their own gratification - or are certain individuals predisposed to this sort of behaviour simply gravitating into situations where they can behave badly?
The experiments randomly placed participants into one of 4 groups: high power/high status, low power/low status, low power/high status, and high power/low status. Participants were given the option of forcing other participants to perform humiliating actions -- or not.
Those in the low status/high power group chose significantly more demeaning tasks to impose onto other participants, while those in the other 3 groups did not exhibit this behaviour.
Does this mean that the more extreme guardians of Second Life feel they are in a position of low status in real life and are compensating by harassing and humiliating those within their reach?
If, as the study suggests, the combination of low status and high power is a recipe for trouble, I am beginning to think the celebrated free social media tools which empower those dedicated to cultivating their Internet notoriety may contain the seeds of their own destruction as the "little Hitlers" of the social media use their online power to trash everyone else.
Do you still want to play Web 2.0 after watching Jumpman Lane’s Twitter assault on Stroker Serpentine, LabRatuOut’s assault on Esbee Linden, or after following Prokofy Neva’s carefully crafted Google bombing attacks on all and sundry? How do you feel after learning that Kalel Venkman is still expanding and unsuccessfully attempting to secure his Brainiac wiki data mine?
Is this the sort of game you want to play?
Jumpman Lane
Oct 25th, 2011
@jAMesDOE exactly. these permabanned griefer saps all wanna be plastic duck.they wanna be celebrated but cant build. kalel venkman learned a very important lesson that these lady pink fingers learnt a little to late. LINDEN LAB EMPLOYEES make the best weapons.
u make an enemy in second life let the lindens handle it hehehehe
but they learnt it too late like mongoloid idiots they must be a lil slow on the uptake.
if they really thought second life sucked they never would have logged back in after day one.
i really cant tell but it looks like kalel venkman is sittin pretty fulla win while his enemies trudge around the grid on day ol alts, victim to anybody who cares to abuse report em lmao
yup i’d say they were cynical. anyhows we’re preppin for a war with all comers. mess with A Lane and see wtf it gets ya! hehehehehe
Tux
Oct 25th, 2011
@JD
‘Ok so i was wrong about Robble name being in it. But others were of your WH crew.’
Oh but wait, earlier it was Robble and I? Now you are saying it was people I know? Perhaps that explains why I wasn’t ejected from any of the sims during the event, because I went to the event for the event?
‘Honestly you all will be banned and re-banned and keep coming to sl because you have nothing else better to do except instigate and grief.’
Ok, I closed my first account because I wanted to start again – no ban. My second account is held in flux by LL, probably never to be released in all honesty, but they instructed me to make another account. My third account, well that is doing fine, thanks.
Seriously, why so concerned with what I do? I don’t think we have ever been in the same sim, so your unproven accusations serve only to make me smile. But by all means keep complaining about a dead account, it has no effect on my current one.
‘Because as you all have said its just a game to you all.’
That is because it is a game. As per Linden Lab’s company registration definition.
‘You all know Second life will not change so why keep coming back and complaining?’
I come back legitimately, as recommended by LL. And I don’t think I am complaining. Far more people go on a lot more than I do. William Shakespeare once wrote:
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts.
It was almost as if he knew of Second Life. For these four lines apply just as well to it as RL. The fact you and you ilk obsess about me is, at the very least, unhealthy. You see, the time and energy you put into this could, instead, be used positively. Alas, you waste your time flogging a dead horse. By which I mean my second part is over, only your kind fail to let it rest. The only reason I see for this is shock value. The likes of the JLU use the names of dead griefers as a scare tactic to support their behaviour, except this self justification is a mere fallacy. You see once a game character dies, we often change our role.
And before you turn this around, I would like you to realise, you are still playing your part. The rest of us have moved on. Create your own efame, not use long dead names and groups you clearly have no knowledge of.
And finally:
‘They can’t win against them in Second Life so they have to try some other way.’
You would think there was some almighty power struggle going on. You would be wrong. The JLU are simply entertainment. A bunch of court jesters who over stepped the boundaries. They have won nothing, all that has happened is they now have their actions out in the public, and their victims are unknown. They are currently recoiling, trying to limit damage. They cut half their group in that limitation, and still failed to stop the leaks. In a few months they will by using this event as propaganda to promote their wares and justify their existence. I think we lost our court jesters and replaced them with a bunch of headless chickens (no Prok pun intended).
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Oct 25th, 2011
James Doe @ “Honestly I think these griefers who have been kicked and banned number of times, are all upset because they get out griefed by a bunch of spandex wanna be superheros”
Yep, been obvious for a while that the JLU and Prok have figured how to grief smarter, not harder – they just pick on a group everyone despises.(Karma, how does that work?)
The only real question now is when will the retards figure out by outing the damn JLU wiki they are doing the JLU’s dirty work for them. It’s nothing more than giving the JLU a license to commit wholesale slander.
Paul
Oct 25th, 2011
@Tux,
Thanks for clearing up the griefer mentality for us. If it is simple entertainment, then why are you supporting having the JLU banned from the game? Your idea of entertainment is to support unfounded accusations against someone that will interfere with their actual game play? hmmm that is what griefing is: messing with people enjoyment of the game for your own laughs.
A griever thinks it is ‘just entertainment’ to mess with other people randomly.
A vigilante messes with other people out some sense of vigilante justice or game play?
Not much different in the end.
Either way, Second Life is better off without either side.
P.S. I have an earlier comment ‘awaiting moderation’ sorry for non-sequitor
Imnotgoing Sideways
Oct 25th, 2011
Ooh!!! Do we get our name put on a list for posting in this thread?! =^-^=
Paul
Oct 25th, 2011
@ Tux
It is also instructive that another response to being accused of griefing (in addition to ‘i don’t care what you think’ and ‘it’s just a game” is “no evidence’. Isn’t not getting caught part of the griefer ‘gameplay’? so it makes sense that proof would be harder to come by, kinda like a kid accused of stealing a cookie saying “no proof” with a smile on his face and crumbs on his chin. Still, griefers also apparently need notoriety and attention, so they also can’t seem to help talking about what they do and draping what is basically unkind sophomoric pranks with ‘serious’ sounding names like….
I wonder if griefers teach their children that when other children are having fun playing a game, the best thing you can accomplish is to run up and dump a bucket of water on them and spoil the game, and then make fun of them when they cry for being overly earnest and call the whole thing, including their own actions, a game. That is the best way to get attention and feel powerful!
James Doe
Oct 25th, 2011
@Tux,
Your funny, saying I am wasting my time.
Go look at all your posts or write ups about the spandex heroes how much time have you spent in trying to trash them. There are at least 2 huge forum threads on the SLU forums, 1 on Second Citizens.
And you say I am wasting my time. You make me laugh.
So how come no one can give me an accurate count of how many people have actually been logged and tracked by the JLU?
Like I said I thought Robble’s name was in the list. I made a mistake. I admitted to it, unlike others. But then he admitted he was there and he moved some of JLUs objects to 4,000 meters up. So he was basically griefing the JLU.
Robble Rubble
Oct 24th, 2011
“@James Doe
The only thing I did at the sci fi con was select all movable objects that the jlu had rezzed on their parcel then sent them to 4000 meters. Didn’t go around griefing the other parcels like you are carrying on about. I may be some loathsome griefer but I’m not a liar and I refuse to take credit for other’s work.”
Jumpman Lane
Oct 25th, 2011
Y’all KNOW Kalel Venkman won! All hail The Last Son of Krypton!
If ya doubt the fact, Supes can log into SL & do w/e he wants to! HIs enemies can’t! All ya gotta do is abuse report the saps and they gotta make another avi!
Reader
Oct 25th, 2011
Like I said before and it bears repeating -
This is ALL these idiots have (to do). They’ve lost the argument long ago, revealed to everyone that reads these (aforementioned threads and this one) blog rants that they are beyond (internally) conflicted.
It’s all they have, smells more of aspergers more than to coffee and is taken to the extreme as “Web’d Mental illness” at its finest.
See it for what it is. Arguing about it with them results in circles not conclusions nor resolve. And when you consider just how long this nonsense has been going on for most of them, it only becomes more pathetically comedic.
Tux
Oct 25th, 2011
@JD
Sure you are wasting your time. In your attempts to discredit me you are raising awareness of the flaws found in groups such as the JLU. Google is my ally.
Yes, I have been vocal in SLU because my page was sent to me by a rogue JLU member, I guess in a failed attempt to mock me. I published the page. I didn’t know at that point that there was in fact more to come. I am glad there was.
I have never posted on SC. But even if I had, there is a difference between your time and mine. This is still my game, not yours. I am still laughing at the stupidity of the JLU. Their security, their costumes, their self righteous arrogance. All of it makes me laugh. Through this entire thing I have never raged, the JLU have. You know why? Because now, more than ever, people see them for what they are.
You say I have lost, yet the JLU is the ones with reputation issues. Oh sure, I don’t doubt they will claw some of it back, but once they have rebuilt their pedestals someone will come along and knock them off. In the mean time I will keep the stories alive while people like you attempt to deflect from their wrong doing.
Even if you could prove I ever griefed (which you can’t) it would not hide the fact the JLU stepped outside of a game to try to manipulate or ruin peoples lives. They collect the information to empower themselves. Normal people know this.
When I saw the amount of information coming out, I knew they would not get banned. Now they remain as a land mark of what is wrong with social games. Will they stop? No. And you know why? Because they have nothing else, they allowed their game to occupy their real lives. They are beyond hope.
On the plus side, they haven’t found the new sims, nor do they know the new accounts. So they will be busy for a while. When they do find them, they will begin the cycle again.
Long live the HUMANOIDS!
Paul
Oct 25th, 2011
“Because now, more than ever, people see them for what they are” << griefers and vigilantes both!
Reader
Oct 25th, 2011
Hi5 Paul!
GG3
Oct 25th, 2011
@Reader
Yes, high-five one another with pizza-stain shirts and crumbled comic books!!
Bravo!
GG3
Oct 25th, 2011
@Jumpman Lane
Lol! Coming from the guy that’s afraid of watermelons and got himself locked out the beta grid
Paul
Oct 25th, 2011
look in the mirror, GG3. Maybe I should start a group with a sinister sounding name to cover up what a geek I am.
GG3
Oct 25th, 2011
Oh dear me, i’m not the JLU who obsesses over their comic-book personifies now am I? Nor do I believe to be superman, wonderwoman, or any other comic-book critter running their fantasies wild about SL.
Paul
Oct 25th, 2011
/me shrugs.. your right. The “Justice League” is ridiculous. Unlike the “the Wrong Hands” which bears no resemblance as a concept to anything from a comic book such as “the sinister six” or the “brotherhood of evil mutants”
Reader
Oct 25th, 2011
OK Paul. LOL
You rollin’ now brother.
Beers on me!
James Doe
Oct 25th, 2011
Tux
“On the plus side, they haven’t found the new sims, nor do they know the new accounts. So they will be busy for a while. When they do find them, they will begin the cycle again.”
If your not doing anything wrong and Lindens told you, you were ok to make a new account why would you care if they found you?
Your all safe as long as your not doing wrong correct?
So why so Paranoid?
Reader
Oct 25th, 2011
@JD
Because Tux-amillion treats the spandex differently than the Lab but what really makes the whole thing funny as hell is that it is still ALL delusional blather. Being delusional can = being paranoid, right?
Doesn’t matter, the whole story (his excuses) smell to BS. Doesn’t add up one bit.
Senban Babii
Oct 25th, 2011
It’s a beautiful lie
It’s a perfect denial
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
I’m running around in circles, angry
A quiet desperation’s building higher
I’ve got to remember this is just a game
Reader
Oct 25th, 2011
Hi5 Sen!
GG3
Oct 25th, 2011
@Reader
A few JLU trolls/lackies and suddenly facts are turn into fibs. That’s the way to get em boys, your on fire now! LOL
@James
Sheer amount of obsession the JLU have towards Tux fellow. Even to the point of writing “Tux Is Coming” on a plot of land.
So should the JLU be an organized “”group”"forcing folks off their own avatars to get away from their obsessive behaviors?
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@GG3
I am not defending the JLU in here at all.
But when these people say they are not griefers in here like Robble or that he innocently walks by prokofy.
But then admits to griefing one has to laugh at him.
“Robble Rubble
Oct 24th, 2011
“@James Doe
The only thing I did at the sci fi con was select all movable objects that the jlu had rezzed on their parcel then sent them to 4000 meters. Didn’t go around griefing the other parcels like you are carrying on about. I may be some loathsome griefer but I’m not a liar and I refuse to take credit for other’s work.”
Yea so sending their objects up 4,000 meters is griefing he does realise this right? Sure it may be seen as funny but its griefing. Now take that he has admited to doing this. He is now in “The Pink Hands” a group that says they aren’t griefers. Yea right.
Tux has the same obsession as does the hearld and all thse other reformed griefers. Go read his blog, read his posts on slu or other places. He can’t stop talking bad about them with the same old arguments over and over.
Like i said Both groups are griefers, the so called griefers who want to be cool… Tux, Robble, and Tizzers et.al. got out griefed by the spandex clade brigade. Guess they know how to play the game better than the ones who think they are innocent griefers.
If these people complaining about the JLU think its a game, why do they care what the JLU does? Seriously why try to prove the JLU are a bunch of jerks its just a game right?
Please your not trying to protect the rest of SL you trying to protect yourselves from being found out again.
Paul
Oct 26th, 2011
I am not defending the JLU either. I never even heard of them or Kalel before i started reading the Herald. So I am just reading what is being said in here, and responding to it. It started with tux and others saying, apparently to warn garden variety SL residents like me, “hey you guys! you should be worried about the JLU spying on you! they should be banned and reported to the police!” So for a while I took the argument seriously, but quickly realized if you expressed one doubt or asked one question, you are labelled a “troll/lackie”, or accused of being Prok or Kalel.
And, according to Tux, it is a ‘just a silly game’ when we don’t like what he does, and a “crime and they should be banned” when we don’t like what the JLU does.
So yeah, Pixeleen is right… SL is filled with “Little Hitlers”. Some of them are griefers, some of them are vigilantes, and some of them own large estates.
GG3
Oct 26th, 2011
@James
Sheer obsession. There’s something unhealthy about a person(or group of “”people”") who, because Party A did an in-game action here and there, suddenly Party B feels they are given a green-flag to become the dukes off said-game because, apparently, their computur game is a living, breathing entity substitute of real human life and interactions.
Party B believes calling their work/school, DMCA of anything that exposes such data-collecting , and simply odd-ball behavior and whacky behavior wrapped under the logo “we’re the good guys!”.
“Seriously why try to prove the JLU are a bunch of jerks its just a game right?”
The fact that the JLU is data-mining residents, how they use that information, and how they have demonstrated abuse in that information. Last time I did check TOS, I did not see “JLU will also monitor and store personal information about users in insecure wikis for their members to access”.
But apparently, judging from the comments of JLU lackies, protecting a silly and flagrant group known to data-mine and call themselves screwing up people’s RL lives is more important then the privacy that LL advertises their platform as being as than having groups actively stalking other groups/individuals to the point of ‘forcing’ them off the grid.
The “League” is far, far more important than the very users who use SL, it is the league that must survive! While blatantly stepping over real-life laws in the process.
Not to mention JLU members have been looking for groups and people outside Second-Life by checking Blue Mars and OSGrid as well.
It’s clear stalking.
GG3
Oct 26th, 2011
Second-Life has has a problem of data-mining since the beginning of this year.
LL has addressed one of issues early this year, but have turned a blind-ear towards yet another form of data-mining that the JLU have done for years on their service.
There have been complaints by its users that LL has a bad habit of providing poor customer service and ignoring issues that provides good communication to its users. This can be found in any article/blog across the net quiet easily.
Now, the JLU is a group who doesn’t mind taking “”oaths”" and “keeping secrets”. There is a record from their own wiki that provided that this group was in “contact” with LL employee OUTSIDE proper business hours and discussing the “good old days” when the JLU operated on obvious favoritism from LL. Because apparently because your JLU top leadur, you get special privileges to talk to LL employees directly and illustrate on how you basically want things ran in SL, and how it apparently affects the rest of the users on SL too.
Linden Labs has claimed not to support any vigilant “PD” group in SL, but when employees do “off the record” moves with other customers, no sir, I do not like that as a paying customer.
There has been an attempt to erase that source(and a couple of others too),but it’s been seen. Funny how important discoveries about the JLU seem “Disappear” time after time again.
The JLU have upgraded themselves from an annoying cape-totting comic book fan-club to a malicious little group who idolize SL to the point of obsession, lowly rats who will do whatever it takes to make sure the “League” stays a-float.
Tux
Oct 26th, 2011
@ JD, Reader & Paul
Since Selene’s and Hewee’s return to the league they stand shoulder to shoulder, two more voices, two more lights against the darkness. Right?
You see, this is just a game. You see some sort of victory where none exists. The JLU still over stepped the boundary into RL. No matter what you say or how excited you get, you cannot change that.
Like I said, I will keep responding as with each comment draws more attention to the main stories.
As for my account, well the reason I will not name it is because the JLU has a history of making things up, using fictional chat logs etc etc. I need this account to last a little while yet, I am having fun with it. Perhaps when I am bored.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the proposed release of PhantomZone next month. Despite all the bad press. I am sure the open source version will be a giggle too. Especially considering the JLU still plan on hosting the DB behind it. I am especially interested in the comms side of things, because the source I have seen already was truly appalling.
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@GG3
Ok So please go over to the SLU forums and tell people in the Help Sue Joshua Nightshade thread that what they are doing is just as wrong as the JLU the Data Mining. Please let me see you do that. Several people in that group did what the JLU does.
Now I ask again, how many people has the JLU actually data mined?
Let me see an actual accurate number? So far all I have seen is a bunch of griefers or friends of these griefers. Show me an actual number. Oh and Minus all the alts of known griefers.
Next lets think about what Kalel did to Tizzer Foxchase.
Tizzer helped build the Woodbury school in SL correct?
Tizzer griefed people ~fact~ he/she griefed sims. Now Tizzer at the time represented Woodbury since he/she was using Woodbury as a main base. Now being an institution of education Kalel sent a letter to the Dean of the school. I would have as well since the school was being used as a place to support griefing which violates lindens TOS. The griefing professor can spin it how ever he wants. Woodbury was removed for multiple violations of the labs TOS. That is a fact the school even admits. They removed themselves from Second life because a few idiots at the school caused their reputation of a school to get trashed.
Now Tux explains that Tizzer got Kalels address from the letters he sent to the Dean. Please go look at the privacy statement of Woodbury if the Dean of the school or advisors showed the address to Tizzer they violated the schools own privacy rules as dictated by the united states. But that’s ok cause Kalel shot first ah yes the school yard argument. He did it first. Now Tizzer and his/her buddies drive 40miles out of the way to go knock on Kalels door. Told his wife to give him a message. She then calls the police. Tizzer and his/her buddies were wrong in approaching someone like that it wasn’t some drunk prank it was planned for intimidation. Kalel tries the same think calling people up to try to intimidate people to scare them.
Little Hitlers which this article is about.
Now looking at pictures of Tizzers he fit’s the model of a “Little Hitler” which this article talks about.
I have a feeling he was pushed around a lot in high school and bullied as well. But who knows.
This article isn’t just directed about Kalel or Prok, but also people like Tizzer, and the Professor from Woodbury, Tux, Robble, and Joshua all these people grief to try to have power over something or others. Why do they keep coming back into Second Life, because they feel they can control it.
I think they all did to many raids in WoW.
Tux
Oct 26th, 2011
@ JD
‘I have a feeling he was pushed around a lot in high school and bullied as well. But who knows.’
But did he ever call bullies HUMANOIDS?
‘Why do they keep coming back into Second Life, because they feel they can control it.’
No one can control it, but we can manipulate it.
paul
Oct 26th, 2011
I don’t see any victory at all. I just see SL plagued by griefers and vigilantes, which, I suppose could be expected.
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@Tux
“No one can control it, but we can manipulate it.”
Oh so you all hurt that the the spandex brigade and Prok manipulate it better than you all. Is that why you are so intrested in trying to ruin them so you all can feel you manipulated them better.
JD
LOL
Oct 26th, 2011
Who Cares?
hobo kelly
Oct 26th, 2011
The last time I was involved in a prolonged community range war, some 20 years ago, that was facilitated by a community wide communications medium similar to the internet, it took about 1 week for it to go into real life, at which time some users would show up at other users houses, kick thier doors down and go inside at which time the users would proceed to beat the shit out of each other. Then the rifles came out, 30:06′s, and the users were taking pot-shots at the outdoors communications medium transponders mounted on each others houses, in an attempt to take them offline. Gasoline was thrown on peoples back decks and ignited. Tins of human feces was mailed through the postal system. Automobiles almost totally destroyed in their owners parking lots. Physical and psychological cross-town warfare like you would not believe went on for years. One side was the srs bnsn regressive drunks. The other side were the cool creative hip kid smokers. One drunk got so wrapped up in trying to control the whole communications medium that as the war spun out of his control and public opinion started going against the drunks, that he started drinking harder, and one night he passed out with a cigarette in his hand and burned his house down to the fucking ground with him in it. So pardon me if I get a BIG LAUGH at most of this SL griefing crap, and especially a BIG LAUGH at these weiners in here crying about Tizzers showing up at somebodys house on halloween night trick-or-treating. So for a little perspective, on a scale of 0 to 9 you guys are like .01 but there is always hope for tomorrow… halloween is coming…
Bunjie
Oct 26th, 2011
It should be easy to guess whom I’m referring too.
my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4ea781c4fae4830001003330
Senban Babii
Oct 26th, 2011
@Reader
“Hi5 Sen!”
Please don’t Hi5 me, I know where your hand’s been and I don’t believe you got the point of my quote anyway.
For the last few weeks I’ve been playing Modern Warfare 2. It’s not really my thing but I needed examples of four different game types for….anyway, my point is this. I’m a camper. I camp and I’m proud of it (I also tube, tube for the Baby Jesus). At the other end of the scale are bunnyhoppers. Campers hate bunnyhoppers. Bunnyhoppers hate campers. The in-game chat is filled with both types screaming at each other. But here’s the point. The game mechanics allow for both types of approach to playing the game. That means both approaches are entirely legitimate. So while each side adopts different game-play styles, they are both still within that magic circle that defines the artificial reality of the game world with its agreed-upon boundaries. In the same way, while the sf convention people might have been annoyed that Robble moved their movable objects to 4000m, the fact that the game world allowed him to do so means it was an entirely legitimate approach to the game. The fact that the other players hadn’t secured their pieces in the game environment was simply their own bad gameplay choices.
The problem then occurs when one group finds that their gameplay choices consistently fail and so they begin to look outside the magic circle for solutions. By extending the gameplay beyond the magic circle they have in effect broken the agreed-upon rules that keep the game in its own artificial space.
Any time *anyone* decides this approach is necessary then they have broken the game and it ceases to be a game in any sense.. Imagine me at a netball match. I suck at netball, I always lose. So instead of getting better at netball, I plant a bomb under the car bringing the other team to the match. See the problem? I have rendered the game worthless because I’ve broken the agreed-upon boundaries that make it a game. That’s why SL is doomed to failure, because there are too many people who have poor gameplay choices and whose only chance of success is to prevent the other team from even getting to the field.
Now consider Tizzers. I don’t know Tizzers, probably never will. Tizzers broke the magic circle by knocking on Kalel’s door that Halloween. But Tizzers later acknowledged that this was a dumb thing to do. As far as I’m concerned, Tizzers therefore is welcomed back in the gamespace.
Now consider the JLU. The JLU have and continue to break the magic circle, willingly and all in an attempt to prevent the other team from even getting on the field. They have been told by the other gameplayers that their breaking of the magic circle is wrong and unacceptable and they carry on regardless. They don’t care. They’re just like the recent story of the Modern Warfare player attacking another player.
http://wownews.co.uk/news/517-grown-man-hunts-down-and-attacks-child-who-kills-him-in-call-of-duty-game.html
In game terms, Linden Lab is the referee and they really need to step up and red card the JLU because as it stands, SL has stopped being a game.
Or to bring it back to Pix’s excellent point…
“Is this the sort of game you want to play?”
Robble Rubble
Oct 26th, 2011
@ James Doe
Weren’t you posting on Prok’s blog about how you were banned from here? Guess that makes you a liar huh?
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@Robble,
So when it looked like I was not allowed to post, doesn’t make one a liar. Or was I and then allowed to post I have no idea what happened the other day that didn’t allow me to post. So nice try spin on it though Robble that’s the best you can do is try to call me a liar. So guess that makes you and The Pink Hands liars since you griefed a group in July and saying you have changed is funny.
One of CheerGirls Bimbo Cheerleaders like to go to sims and grief them by trying to place those exact same cubes that she found on her land. But she won’t tell you that will she? The person that was caught on several sims buy the land owners doing this was named. Starfire (dragon12red). Several people asked them what they were doing and they refused to answer people. The sims had auto return on which was good. I am not saying all the Cheerleaders or Pink Hands are griefers but seriously you associate with known griefers your going to get labeled as one. So suck it up Pink Hands you have several admitted griefers in your group still.
@Senban Babii
No Robble purposely griefed JLU at the IFT Scifi Con. Obviously you don’t know that the only people who could move objects or rez objects at the con were people in the IFT build group.
So Robble griefed. So in this “game” I should be allowed to go all over the place and be able to move peoples objects around, just because i can, and the Lab wouldn’t see that as griefing your funny. I’m not going to get in to if Second life is a game or not. But a game has an objective and an end.
Definition of Game:
Game
a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a setof rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators.
a single occasion of such an activity, or a definite portion of one: the final game of the season; a rubber of three games at bridge.
the number of points required to win a game.
But you all obviously mean this.
Play Games:
play games, to act in an evasive, deceitful, manipulative, or trifling manner in dealing with others: Don’t play games with me—I want to know if you loveme or not!
Guess the Spandex Brigade Play games better than you all, so does Prokofy. Since they seem to have figured the game out better than you all.
“Tizzers therefore is welcomed back in the gamespace”
Well the fact that Tizzer gets banned again from Sl because he hacked a persons account to control a group. Which seems to be accurate since lindens banned him and killed his his lands. Well he did something against the TOS. Seems to me he keeps striking out. Oh wait this is all the spandex brigades fault. Guess again they play the game better than you all.
Seriously you all want to go beat up super heroes go play City of Heroes.
@Senban Babii
“Is this the sort of game you want to play?”
Then why are you all playing it? All I am hearing is bitching about Linden Labs and people like the spandex brigade. But you all don’t want to stop playing second life.
For me I am not affected by the spandex brigade. They don’t have me in their wiki DB.
Only time I got griefed was by the group that came to the IFT con.
So when will someone give me how many people are actually listed in the wiki can you even give this? From what I understand the wiki is a mess be lucky if anyone can really find things.
Senban Babii
Oct 26th, 2011
@Reader
“I’m not going to get in to if Second life is a game or not. But a game has an objective and an end.”
I could rattle on all day about asymmetric vs symmetric rulesets, the concept of play vs game, aim-driven vs aimless play and so on. But this is neither the time nor place. I’d certainly ask you to think about Huizinga’s definition though.
“Play is a voluntary activity or occupation, executed within certain fixed limits of time and place, according to rules freely accepted but absolutely binding, having its aim in itself and accompanied by a feeling of tension, joy, and the consciousness that it is “different” from “ordinary” life.”
Think specifically about “fixed limits of space” and “different from ordinary life”.
“Seriously you all want to go beat up super heroes go play City of Heroes.”
I don’t want to beat up superheroes. I want them to stop beating *me* up.
“Then why are you all playing it?”
Who says I am? When was the last time I logged in? I don’t know, can someone tell me? I’m only really interested in talking *about* SL anymore.
“Only time I got griefed was by the group that came to the IFT con.”
Ah see? You are not what I would call an impartial observer of events here
“So when will someone give me how many people are actually listed in the wiki can you even give this?”
There was something about this on SLU, a direct quote from Kalel himself. It was in one of the recent megathreads. If it’s of specific concern to you, that’s the place to look
Senban Babii
Oct 26th, 2011
Apologies by the way. Above I’ve replied to @Reader and I did of course mean @James Doe. Sorry for any confusion there, my bad entirely.
Senban Babii
Oct 26th, 2011
XD Oh god oh god I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist XD
http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2011/10/25/watch-now-sinestro-goes-too-far-in-robot-chicken-dc-special/
Tux
Oct 26th, 2011
@ JD
‘Oh so you all hurt that the the spandex brigade and Prok manipulate it better than you all. Is that why you are so intrested in trying to ruin them so you all can feel you manipulated them better.’
Lol, wrong manipulation. Despite your paranoid delusions, I do not think of other players, my manipulation is of the engine itself. The JLU has for years hid behind a collection of alts in order to infiltrate groups and destroy them. They scurry from group to group trying to enforce their power. Real superheroes, BTW, would go confront the evil they find.
But no, I am interested in the engine itself.
I see Prok and the JLU as mild entertainment. They both obsess to the point of delusion. Yes I was back in SL within five minutes of Tux being held. Not through ban evasion, but a simple call to support. Prok and JLU are a joke, not only to the residents, but within LL too.
Since creating my third account I haven’t contacted Prok or the JLU, except Zen who I have had many conversations with. Yet they still see me at every corner. I have been accused of more griefing recently than I have ever done. And I still laugh.
paul
Oct 26th, 2011
@Senban. So, let me get this straight. Someone is minding their own business playing Second Life, maybe even paying (a lot) of money to play second life, or maybe even running a business in second life, and some yutz comes along and zooms their prims to 4,000 m just for a ‘lulz’ and that is fair ‘gameplay’ just because they don’t get caught?
Jumpman Lane
Oct 26th, 2011
I unno I suppose the tide has turned on these pink lady fingers griefer saps! Hehehehe! I unno maybe Linden Lab don’t want their engine manipulated! Lol
If second life sucks so much why bother loggin in. Kalel won. Period. Nobody cares if they documented alts of permabanned griefers. Don’t get me wrong I think Tizz is cool. I’m certain GLE is a sanctimonious sap. Though many of Tizz’s flunkies are sappy! All these people shook the dice and shot their number! Some won. Some lost! Just seems douchey to whine about it after the fact! Lol
For Pix to pick sides is fair enuff too. But Linden Lab governs their platform not the herald.
Senban Babii
Oct 26th, 2011
@Paul
“maybe even paying (a lot) of money to play second life”
Sorry Paul but this is your fundamental error.
No one pays money to play Second Life. Your expectation that somehow paying for additional privileges means that paying accounts have more social status than free accounts is simply false. There is so Heinlein-like dichotomy between citizen and civilian, there is only “resident”. Some residents choose to pay to gain access to extra privileges but that does not relegate those who don’t to a lower caste status.
As for the rest of it, I’ve already given my thoughts and backed them up several times.
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@Paul
Thank you i was about to write the same thing.
@Tux, so now i am paranoid and delusional.
I expected better in a conversation but i guess you have to call me things just like Prok calls others things as well. I am not delusional i know perfectly well what you all and the spandex brigade do. Actually many residents and i am sure lindens as well do know. Its like a little turf war between a bunch of drama queens.
Oh hint for you Tux, only people i define as heroes are Paramedics and Fire Fighters. Also another hint for you they don’t fight evil they help people out and save lives.
Do i care that Kalel wants to dress up as superman nope, i don’t care hell you dressed up as crow thing with a super hero T logo on your chest pretending you were super tux or something. Now your some kinda of duck thing. That is all your choices. Doesn’t make me think that you are a duck or some messed up crow thing in real life.
3rd account huh? I am still on my first account from 2005. Guess your doing something wrong.
Oh Tux real superheros aren’t real you do know that right?
Also lets not forget the Woodbury group and others planting spy’s in the Spandex Brigades group. Hell the Herald here wrote an article on it. So lets see the “griefers” are doing the same thing the SB people do.
But its ok it was against the “evil” supermen and women who call me griefer.
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@Senban Babii
“No one pays money to play Second Life.”
What? Actually many people do pay money. People pay money to own sims that you go and visit. Some people pay money yearly for premium accounts as well.
Actually Linden Labs has defined that premium account people get special privileges that none premium players don’t .
I am not saying payed people should have more status than none paying members. But saying no one pays to play is false.
You don’t have to pay is correct.
But when a person goes to a sim and decides to move another persons objects up to 4,000 meters just for a laugh that is griefing.
Now why did Robble do it to just the Spandex Brigade? Why didn’t he do it to others? He wanted to provoke them. That is griefing and harassing a specific group of people.
Sorry you can not spin it to fit what you want it was flat out griefing.
If you came into my sim and did that i would have AR’d you as well and banned you from my sim.
The issue now is you pushed many people of the Con to accept the help of the JLU next time. Each time your crew do stupid crap like this you will continue to push regular residents to the JLU and their phantom zone device because you all act like a bunch of hurt kids.
Stop doing childish things like sending peoples objects up 4,000 meters and people may actually believe you have a just cause.
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
@Senban Babii
So basically you are saying all you like to do is talk about second life now but not login inworld, so just looking for the drama of it? So then how can the spandex brigade harass you? What they called you a griefer? But but it’s just a game right, what does it matter what they call you? Does it really upset your life so much? Heck you all say they lie so much so why cry about it? No Senban I didn’t see an official number of how many were actually tracked. You’re telling me you accept Kalel’s statement on how many has been tracked as fact but nothing else he says. That’s funny. So you are basically saying some of the stuff he says is true, and then the question becomes how much is true? So which is it?
paul
Oct 26th, 2011
@Senban.
I pay money to play second life. I pay tier on a full sim so that I can decorate it and play with how I want to. My sim is also a public space where any avatar, paying or not, can rez and play.
My “expectation” is that other residents of SL, whether they are paying or not paying, will treat me with the same courtesy that I try to treat them. When they visit my sim, I expect them to respect the theme I have created and that they respect the gameplay of other visitors. When I visit another sim that is open for visiting, I do not launch the owners prims to 4,000 m, I do not spam the residents with particles, and I do not post offensive material. Instead, I do my best to respect the covenant that is set up, and enjoy whatever it is the parcel owner is attempting to do with their land.
Now, tell me again about how wrong you think my views of status and conduct in Second Life are.
James Doe
Oct 26th, 2011
No I am not an impartial observer. Yet you all seem to miss the fact that many of us talking against you all are not in favor of the spandex brigade either. You all seem to think it’s either or. Not that you Woodbury, W-Hats, Wrong Hands, Pink Hands or what ever flavor name you all want to be called are just as bad as the spandex brigade and we don’t approve of either side. I also believe some of the mob over at the SLU forums is just as bad as you all. But then again some of you are over their yammering about the same thing over and over. What I laugh about Fred who is the one that is heading up the wiki leak doesn’t even play in second life anymore. So what makes you think Linden Labs would care what you all say? Many of you have been banned and how many times?