Understanding the “Little Hitlers” of Second Life
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/10/11 at 1:50 am
I’ve long wondered at the connection between Second Life’s endless supply of over-the-top drama and the strange psychology of certain players -- particularly those seriously invested in “defending” Linden Lab and “policing” the Second Life grid.
What is it about Second Life that attracts and retains obsessive-compulsive meta-gamerz who can’t keep their play inside the game?
Do large land tier payments to the Lab trump civil discourse even when Lab staff are swept up in an ugly cycle of Twitter/Google bombing payback as we saw with the LabRatuOut mess? After a concerted effort to attract the Lab’s attention to the recent excesses of the Justice League Unlimited, some of my friends in The Pink Hands faction are getting a bit cynical.
the Pink Hands faction is becoming cynical about Linden Lab
The golden rule seems to be in effect - those spending the virtual gold, rule. Perhaps Rod Humble is just hoping he can finish his new not-SL mobile-device-enabled game before the house of cards falls.
Meanwhile, consider notoriously toxic trolls such as Jumpman Lane, Kalel Venkman’s Justice League Unlimited vigilantes, or Prokofy Neva -- and the level of effort required to spend years tracking and data-mining other players or mounting an endless series of intensive blog, Twitter, and Google bombing campaigns designed to humiliate and destroy enemies.
Forgiveness and redemption seem to be alien concepts for some trolls upstanding Second Life residents, which implies a deep psychological need is being addressed. What exactly is going on?
A recent article in The Economist describing how “quite ordinary people will succumb to bad behaviour if the circumstances are right” may hold some answers.
According to the article, Nathanael Fast of the University of Southern California and colleagues at Northwestern and Stanford universities ran a series of experiments to see if social circumstances around power and status have the potential to create “little Hitlers” who annoy and frustrate others for their own gratification - or are certain individuals predisposed to this sort of behaviour simply gravitating into situations where they can behave badly?
The experiments randomly placed participants into one of 4 groups: high power/high status, low power/low status, low power/high status, and high power/low status. Participants were given the option of forcing other participants to perform humiliating actions -- or not.
Those in the low status/high power group chose significantly more demeaning tasks to impose onto other participants, while those in the other 3 groups did not exhibit this behaviour.
Does this mean that the more extreme guardians of Second Life feel they are in a position of low status in real life and are compensating by harassing and humiliating those within their reach?
If, as the study suggests, the combination of low status and high power is a recipe for trouble, I am beginning to think the celebrated free social media tools which empower those dedicated to cultivating their Internet notoriety may contain the seeds of their own destruction as the "little Hitlers" of the social media use their online power to trash everyone else.
Do you still want to play Web 2.0 after watching Jumpman Lane’s Twitter assault on Stroker Serpentine, LabRatuOut’s assault on Esbee Linden, or after following Prokofy Neva’s carefully crafted Google bombing attacks on all and sundry? How do you feel after learning that Kalel Venkman is still expanding and unsuccessfully attempting to secure his Brainiac wiki data mine?
Is this the sort of game you want to play?
Robble Rubble
Oct 27th, 2011
Actually, you are completely right. I was basing that on the comments in this article: http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/01/jlu-on-the-teen.html
Oops, my bad.
GG3
Oct 27th, 2011
@Enoch
Cappuccino?
Freedom
Oct 27th, 2011
This is maybe the best article i ever read on the alphaville.
To those able to read between lines … it perfectly explains whats going on in sl, whats behind the curtains at the high level and how it works. Though i wouldnt understimate those “low status/high plan” because sometimes they have to act as “low status”, exactly because they are managing the high plan and want people to think they are low. sometimes they arent low at all and theres an huge knowledge leading their actions inworld, thats at least for what i noticed dealing with few of the smartest persons on the grid. they run it, they are not what you would call “good people” (enev if they act good tryng to fool ya) and they manage the pyramid from above…..hidden of alts, tricking, griefing, and ruining real good people life. why? easy to udnerstand if you guys use the brain to think about serious stuff instead of trolliing one achothers: in life there are “systems” the sl drama system wants you to feel good vibes all the time, the real one, same. now ask yourself why? you stop feeding them in the end. this is my wish. If you are able to udnerstand the deep hidden meaning of this article, you will understand the deep meaning of life.
thank you Pixeleen for all you do.
Peace.
Freedom
Oct 27th, 2011
@ Robble
from that article :
“Both groups descriptions start with the motto “To protect the weak, and defend the innocent” and end with the phrase “To find out more, contact any of the officers in the Justice League/Teen Titans Unlimited”. Both groups also mention a key mission: “We do our best to help those in need of aid.” Is this just a coincidence?
how comes lot of sl mafias claims to be the ones helping poor people in need of aid too in their group manifesto?? isnt this a bit tricky?! and above all, whos really behind jlu, mafias, and all the drama???
theres more behind it, the smell of shit is getting everyday more unsustainable.
Rabid Barkley
Oct 27th, 2011
Hitler probably played secondlife back in Austria. He was a furry, of course.
hobo kelly
Oct 27th, 2011
whats this about prokofy neva being kicked out of SL? huh? the cats ate her out of house and home and now she cannot pay tier? this must be just a rumour or something… although SL was running pretty good tonight…
Senban Babii
Oct 27th, 2011
@Hobo Kelly
“whats this about prokofy neva being kicked out of SL? huh? the cats ate her out of house and home and now she cannot pay tier?”
The crowd watches, perched on the edges of their seats, hands hovering over the popcorn. The tension mounts…
Meanwhile, can I book a place for the party and put my name down for a Crazy Cat Lady Commemorative Talking Swamp Donkey? You just know those will become valuable collectables and can only grow in both value and cultural significance.
I feel there should also be a range of “I was there” merchandise such as tee shirts and novelty tin foil hats. Think perhaps a tee shirt with Prok’s face, then Prok 1874-2011 or whatever and then the tagline “I was there” in a riot of colourful fonts. Limited editions that prove you were in at the end when the Fall Of Prok finally came.
Perhaps even a special Fall Of Prok pwny could be made? The entrepreneurial opportunities are endless. I’ll buy one of everything!
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Ok so it looks like we have shot down two of the major debates against the JLU.
That they were responsible for Nikola’s sucide. The time frame of it all just doesn’t match up for the JLU to be held accountable for this action. As Robble was just doing research on one post.
Tizzer’s, admitted he was wrong for knocking on Kalel’s door that Halloween night some 40 miles away. We know it wasn’t some drunken silliness.
Kalel, acting all bravado saying he would have shot Tizzer if he was their. Well please that’s like, Hobo here calling them Pedophiles
So yes we have JLU collecting data on people. Ok how many?
Yes it is bad to data mine but many people are doing this as well.
So let’s get to the subject of this article the “little hitler’s” syndrome.
I see many people fall under this. JLU all their alts, Tux and all his alts , Tizzer and all his/her alts, Wrong Hands, The Pink Hands, PN, W-Hats. Its all about people trying to control or manipulate the game.
Now Tizzer’s had a good thing going with the Bronies but she decides to park himself next to the JLU at a con why? To instigate a situation?
She could have enjoyed his new group with out the JLU even bothering with her.
But instead she decides to start up again even attacking the creator of the Bronie AV that is what got her booted last time. But she then decides to come back in again, and again.
The Pink Hands don’t want to be seen as griefers well I would suggest “cough” ladies that you fix your group write up.
“A radical feminist group sympathetic to The Wrong Hands, We are opposed to Vigilantes, cyberstalkers and cyberbullies.
Some call us coffeepot gleefurs.
Some call us Content Creators.
We are all just here to have fun during our time in second Life.”
Ok you’re “Sympathetic” to The Wrong Hands well these people your sympathetic with are acting as Vigilantes, cyber bullies, cyber stalkers as well.
Vigilante behavior
“Those who believe this see their governments (Second Life) as ineffective in enforcing the law (TOS/CS) ; thus, such individuals fulfill the like-minded wishes of the community. (That the small group speaks for the residents) In other instances, a person may choose a role of vigilante as a result of personal experience (Victim of the JLU AR process or in their wiki) as opposed to a social demand.
Cyber-bullying vs. cyber-stalking
The practice of cyber-bullying is not limited to children and, while the behavior is identified by the same definition in adults, the distinction in age groups is sometimes referred to as cyberstalking or cyberharassment when perpetrated by adults toward adults, sometimes directed on the basis of sex. Common tactics used by cyber-stalkers are to vandalize a search engine or encyclopedia, to threaten a victim’s earnings, employment, reputation, or safety. In voice chat forums, cyber-stalkers may record what victims say and replay the recordings in a way that humiliates them. A repeated pattern of such actions against a target by an adult constitutes cyber-stalking.
Tux stating he wants to have the JLU and this second life drama appear in search engines so when little kid looks up GLE or JLU they will see Kalel and how bad they are. This by definition is a form of Cyber Bullying.
Now if we all decide to label Prokofy as a “little hitler” then we should also place Pixeleen Mistral in the listas well. Pixeleen has been the person up front against the JLU with all the articles written and defending Woodbury. Prokofy takes the other side of the debate they both spin the stories, for what they want.
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Also, don’t worry people I did see i made it into Prokofy’s “Second Thoughts” write up.
I also see she doesn’t want me to Post unless i give him a real name or real second life name.
I find this very amusing I could put another name other than James Doe like “Mark Geiger” or “Biteme resident” and people would think its more real than James Doe that is very amusing.
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
@ JD
You have shot down nothing.
No one thought the JLU was responsible for the suicide of NS. They certainly didn’t help, even when asked. So they could be considered a contributing factor. But their actions upon finding out is what is disgusting. The way they openly mocked her life.
Tizzer’s admitted he was wrong when he apologised to Kalel soon after the event. But that night they was local and intoxicated. You really shouldn’t try to twist it.
Kalel was probably acting in bravado, however weeks later he said that he was sorry he got caught making the threat but NOT for the threat itself. So you see, no remorse.
Not Tux and his alts, just Tux. I only had alts to hold game money or as bots.
Wow, this is news, please tell me when Tiz attacked one of the creators of the MLP AV’s (in fact I know of three MLP AV creators)?
Your copy-pasta’s are flawed because once more you are applying real life to a game. Realise this: The rules are different! The game in question has its own authority to govern abuse. Should you feel any of the rules (and they are rules not laws) are being broken, you are welcome to submit a report. SL is full of vigilantes. As for cyberbullying and cyberstalking, tbh they need new definitions when relating to SL. Unless of course it crosses into RL (this includes alt detection btw).
As for hitting search engines, well that is what happens. It is not cyberbullying though, for one simple reason Superman, Green Lantern Excelsior , and any of the others are NOT real people. Perhaps in the US it is a criminal offence to bully a comic book hero, but not here. You need to realise where the line between SL and RL is. Many RL laws do not apply in SL. Whilst you remain deluded in your belief they are the same, you will never have a valid argument.
Finally, Pix. Pixeleen’s eyes are open more than most. You would do well listening to the little virtual reporters words some time.
hobo kelly
Oct 27th, 2011
@s.babii
Hmm, if you were to combine a prokofy with a bronie what would you get? I wonder… A Pronkie? a breedable “Swamp Pronkie Donkey”? That sounds good to me. I hereby give up all rights to the name if someone wants to make Talking Swamp Pronkie Donkeys. Pronkie Donkeys might catch on actually. They should have the lumpy human head on a bronie like body with the taped up eyeglasses and wonkey eye… They won’t breed until they are at least 40 years old though… HA
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux,
I will disagree, go read the massive threads on slu about the JLU.
Many have tried to target the JLU as responsible for the death of Nikola.
Please go back and review the time frame of events.
Nikola had left second life to go to open sim, a year after the plea for money. Then March She had her name legally changed. Then June she killed herself. Seems to me that the JLU didn’t push to her killing her self or add to it. She obviously had a lot of issues in her real life and virtual lives, don’t forget at one time all you griefers were against her when she was in the JLU, maybe you all added to her death as well.
There was an interview with Curly about the Bronies incident. I guess Curly made it all up that their account was hacked by Tizzer. And Tizzer just happened to be banned yet again it was all a coincident?
Oh ok my copy and pastes are flawed?
Then why are people saying that the JLU should have given Nikola money. That is real life, and we shouldn’t be putting our Real world Morals into a Second Life. Seems you all try to make your arguments justified with the way the wind blows.
Actually Tux some real life laws do apply to Second Life.
Example gambling. If you recall it use to be allowed till lindens were told that they could not allow gambling in second life since it crosses state boarders.
Some of the games “Rules” come from actual real life laws.
Just like any Internet Hosting Company has to be healed to the laws of the country they reside in. And the Company will make sure that they set their TOS to apply to the real life legal issues.
I am not out to go and find out who you are to AR or look around the internet for who you are either.
I could careless what your alt is in Second Life.
If you come to any of my Sims and grief then I will ban, mute you and then AR you. Its not rocket science here to deal with griefers.
I won’t be going to a blog or forum and raging about how you griefed me.
Honestly I think this is why Linden Labs should charge for the application. So every time you perma-banned people are kicked out you have to buy a new license to play it will maybe help the lab fix some of the stuff with more income from you perm-banned people.
Actually I have read what Pixeleen writes.
Pixeleen’s philosophy of second life doesn’t match mine. I do see she is a bit obsessed with the JLU and won’t do serious write ups about other groups like the wrong hands and their past history of internet trolling or harassing.
The moment Pix turns and writes a serious write up on the wrong hands and documents all your internet postings all over. I am sure you all will be jumping on them yelling at them.
But right now you have a common enemy the JLU and Linden Labs.
You all are trying to fight a virtual turf war
A bunch of gangs fighting over a virtual world that linden labs can pull the plug on any time they want.
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Best line and it goes for all sides to think about, this includes Tizzers, Joshua, Tux, Robble, et al..
“playing well together is something we were supposed to have learned in kindergarten, but as this story shows, doing so is not as easy as it seems.”
Choose your fictions well.
by Henry Jenkins and Peter Ludlow
Posted by Henry Jenkins at 8:20 AM
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
….A bunch of gangs that 99% of Second Life residents has never heard of.
JD, don’t forget a key piece of Tux’s argument: He arbitrarily defines an arena were unethical behavior is permissible and and where it is not. “It is ok to be a bully and randomly harass people here, because it is a game (and the people are not real people?), but over here, it crosses a ‘line’ and it is illegal and wrong to bully and harass people.”
But your right…it is turf war and gangs….a comic book drama between Batman and his gang and The Penguin and his gang, and with about as much consequence or real world application. One could not exist without the other, I suppose. It is ironic that the worse crime to commit in this drama is admit to feeling wounded or ‘butthurt’, when the whole freakshow is wafer-thin veneer of earnest role-play at its finest, so let’s continue to glorify and shower attention upon the participants!
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
@JD
The difference being: the JLU was friends, they pride themselves on being family. I would help people of lesser status. And do not include me in your ‘you all’ comment.
I would love to see proof of this, although I am guessing the mere accusation would be enough to have Tizzers banned. Much in the way the JLU sent my IP address to LL saying they had proof I was hacking their website. Only later to redact the story because it was BS.
They are flawed, if a close friend or family (be it virtual or not) was in need I would help, and have. The JLU have no boundary between RL and SL (similar to you in fact) and so should have had no problem helping a family member in need. Instead they mock her in life and death.
Yes some of the rules come from laws, but they are enforced by LL not a law authority. Unless any RL laws are broken, that is. However, as a people have found out numerous times (including the JLU) no real life laws are broken by publishing something about a game character. This year I have had seven take down requests, in each case it was overthrown. You cannot cyberbully a game character and cause RL harm. Because at any point the game can be switched off, or you can use an alt. In this case you should use the abuse system and allow the game gods decide.
As for charging for the application I agree, in part. But in each of the times I have made a main account (three to be exact), I have paid an annual subscription. And probably will on the forth and fifth if that is what I choose. When stating you perma-banned people, be aware that because someone says it is so, doesn’t mean it is.
LL wont pull the plug, all this is advertising, they want new people to come see what the kerfuffle is all about XD
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
“You cannot cyberbully a game character and cause RL harm. Because at any point the game can be switched off, or you can use an alt.”
So if someone is playing the game that they want to play and is not bothering anyone else, and you come along and screw up the game they are playing, that is just fine, ethic, moral, and legal.
So Tux, by that logic, let’s teach our children that when they see other children playing, it is completely fine to interfere with what other the other children are doing, even if you make them cry, destroy the sand castles they spent a long time building.
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
Welcome to the real world Paul, because that is exactly what happens. It may not be ethical or moral but it isn’t illegal!
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
“They are flawed, if a close friend or family (be it virtual or not) was in need I would help, and have. The JLU have no boundary between RL and SL (similar to you in fact) and so should have had no problem helping a family member in need. Instead they mock her in life and death.”
How do you say I have no boundary, between SL and RL?
You have 0 idea who i am in real life or even who my second life account is. While a simple web on “Tux Winkler” shows more about who you are in 1st Life than one about me does. Also the search I did didn’t include the JLU info on you.
I have a clear separation of SL and RL. But I also know how they both work together in the environment we play in. I may use real life examples to support some of my argument because either way one looks at Second Life we do bring our First Lives to the game called Second Life. Its called Second Life for a reason.
All games are designed by real life people all people play the game are from the real world. So we do impose our morals into second life as well as other games. Why else would the LBGT be raging about wanting more gay and lesbian creatures in world of war craft. I mean its just a game right who cares what sexual orientation that Panda is.
What game and the internet is allows an illusion of being anonymous. In reality we are not anonymous players or posters to a forum. If The Alphavilleherald wanted to, they could figure and start doing research on each and everyone of us who posts. And disclose who we all are.
We are placing our trust in people like Pixeleen Mistral to not break what we feel is a code of conduct on the internet to protect our privacy. But they could do it if they didn’t have what we feel are good morals.
So perhaps you are the one that may need to think about SL and RL.
What you do on the internet is a reflection of who you are in the real world. The more the internet grows and becomes the major media out post the more we need the basic moral compass of whats right and whats wrong. Grown ups including you and others even the jlu need to stop acting like a bunch of 12year olds.
I believe the JLU moral compass broke, But I also think the wrong hands compass is broken as well or people who still grief.
Many residents want to live their second life with out being griefed in .
In real life is Graffiti my car Art or Vandalism?
Sure the Graffiti may be artistically great and I have seen some very artistic peaces, but its not your property to do that on. That is how i view griefing, sure some of it may be “artistic” but coming to my home my sim and doing it when its not wanted or welcomed is griefing. Go to your own sim or your friends sims and do it to each other knock your selves out. But that isn’t what you want. You Desire to have people make a stink to see the peoples reactions.
A Typical griefer mentality
d3adlyc0d3c
Jun 28, 2008
“Prok has listed Tizzers as a communist in that entry just because he does stuff like what you saw in that video. I mean, srsly. I am telling you, when you can make someone go nuts like that it can be loads of fun.”
Tizzers
Jan 15, 2008
Posts a picture of Prok RL mind you.
Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2888815&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2
Just because everyone knows who Prok is its ok to plaster her name and picture everywhere? Seems to me that is that SL/RL line you are talking about.
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux,
So just to be clear, you are saying we should teach our children that so long as something is not illegal, it is alright to do even if it is immoral or unethical?
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux,
Depends on the form of griefing.
Tagging a gangs name on a train is vandalism. But the gang is just seeing it as griefing.
A neo-nazi or the KKK goes to a “Temple” spray paints a swastika on it they are just griefing nothing illegal about it right?
SL has a set of rules, we are to play by similar to laws.
You move a persons prims on their land or parcel with out permission that is griefing and against the linden labs TOS.
Placing an Image of a swastika which Woodbury did so people could see it on a map view is also against the TOS. Displaying known hateful and racist images. Why do we have some of the TOS/CS that are similar to real life laws such as racism, bigotry?
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Paul,
I don’t think has the same morals as you or I seem to have.
Its interesting what I have read about him from some other people on the web. But I take it all with a grain of sand on a beach. But if some of it is true, i understand how his morals do not match with mine.
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
@ Paul
No I am saying it happens, a lot. You bought the analogy to the table.
@ JD
‘All games are designed by real life people all people play the game are from the real world. So we do impose our morals into second life as well as other games.’
And here is your problem. For we cannot impose our morals, because as individuals our morals differ. The game which you so strongly state is related to RL in fact allows slavery, murder, rape, torture, bestiality and a whole host of other things which are not only morally wrong in the real world but are in fact against the law. So you see your RL/SL line differs to mine. In a world where these things are common place a little ‘graffiti’, which is simply removed, is hardly an issue! But if you want to spend your time worrying about coloured cubes in a sandbox or particles in a shopping mall, when there are groups conspiring to collect your RL information to have you arrested under false charges, or sacked from your job, or have you kicked out of school, then that is up to you.
Once more you use a RL example, which of course is wrong and should be prosecuted. However in game is different. The reason is simple, what is a hate image for one may not be for another. Here is where the game gods decide, not the law. I have seen nazi furs, black block communists, etc etc. All of which remain in SL. Yet in SL racism takes on a new level, we have to consider furries, scalies, tinies, whatever-else-ies.
So Woodbury mapped a swastika, they also used a hammer and sickle which is a hate image to some. Are you saying political images should be removed from SL entirely? What would happen to the role players, historical builds, etc? To me WU’s use of both images indicate they are not stuck in the histories of fear and don’t take it too seriously. Me either, I am not shocked at the sign of these things in a game. Whats the worst that’ll happen? LL gets publicity from two factions fighting, generating more revenue. Not so bad is it?
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux,
So if you don’t believe it, why do you constantly use this argument to justify the bad behavior of griefers in second life?
Additionally: those who role play slavery or other ‘illegal’ things in SL are generally doing so by mutual consent in a safe environment. The dickhead in the stupid griefer AV that comes along and ruins their role-play for ‘lulz’ is making a choice to mess up their game, and the those whose rp has then be ruined have no choice in the matter.
CheerGirl Allen
Oct 27th, 2011
Beware of the PInk Hands
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
Paul, I am not justifying anything. I am merely pointing out there is differences in definitions of griefing, and between RL and SL.
Their are no illegal things in SL, only things which break the rules. Slavery is certainly not ‘illegal’ in SL.
Who are you to decide what is a stupid AV? Seriously, in a game where you can be anything you like, why be what you wish you was in RL? Slim defined bodies, you can be anything. It is personal choice. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, however calling an AV stupid because it doesn’t fit your ideal AV is singling out a group and insulting them which is against the rules right?
Surely if you are going to make something and rp it then you will also ensure it cannot be destroyed? After all LL provides you with that ability. The ‘stupid griefer AV’ is merely playing his game. Are you saying there is different rules? Are you saying only some people can rp how they wish?
In summary, it seems to me you are saying, only some players can play if you agree. And only some AV’s can exist if they fit your opinion. Isn’t that bigotry?
Robble Rubble
Oct 27th, 2011
For all of this crowing about how you have just blown a hole in all of the anti JLU side’s argument you sure are picking and choosing your questions JD. I’ll ask again, why does anyone need a security group that can’t secure their own information/prims?
Like tits on a bull.
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
GG(-2)
Thanks for the citation.
That was a question einstein, which you didn’t answer btw.
Your timing is inpeccable though. In light of recent “additions” to this thread, you should have been able to put 2 & 2 together I would think – so I will give you the benefit of the doubt to cogitate on that a bit more before responding to this:
Let me rephrase the question then GG(-3), so are you not the person Tux created a collage tribute video on YouTube about? You know, for being an epic AH troll?
Let me put some perspective on this for the viewing public; See, Tux has the where-with-all to hold the idea (grudge perhaps? who knows…) that Muziekfreak1980 is an epic AH troll which prompts him to finally retaliate over on YouTube. Interestingly enough though, if you know Tux like I know Tux you would understand that when he comes out and pegs someone as a troll he implies knowledge of the various personas used in the comment thread activity, here. Also noteworthy is the fact that “Mies” (Musicfreak1980) didn’t do much commenting over here with his primary handle – on aggregate. Only a miniscule amount compared to the other ususal (idiot) suspects on the typical threads. What Mies did do, and continues to do, is run rampant with multiple handles, playing multiple angles – because like Tux – THIS IS ALL HE HAS. Pay attention to the overall time line of this stuff too folks. It shows great detail and it’s key. Enough about that…
So answer the question GG(-4). Your repeated JLU this, Prok that and “you don’t provide proof…like I do” is utterly boring and only goes to substantiate your multiple personality AND Repetitve Attention Deficit disorders. In a nutshell, I volley’d a question your way, looking for a response. The response was delayed to be sure but I finally got one and you revealed & CONFIRMED another fixation complex. Dwell much?
Bears repeating folks:
Recognize the losers on various hot-bed blogs attacking “the other side” (e.g. JLU, PD, Prok, Joshua, RZ etc etc) for what they really are, only a few very sick individuals playing out the only thing they have – “THIS” (see definition earlier up the thread) – with an aging array of smelly sock puppets pulled out of a closet even BIGGER than Imelda Marcos’. I totally agree with prior statements that the other side is a necessary component to the big picture and one wouldn’t exist without the other, but bear in mind the patterned blather coming from the Tux’s, the GG(-5)’s, tthe hobo’s,the Spills (where is Dontspill btw, balled up in the corner of the closet or hiding underneath the bed?) and the Robbles – to name just a few.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUXtb1uQ8Q
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
And for what it is worth (because we all know you are going to pop the question yet again, or sling the accusations that I am Prok, Kalel or whoever…)
Both sides to this ongoing TWH/JLU argument are wrong IMHO I
t’s a ying & yang thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang
I don’t support either side. I just happen to notice that one side is WAY MORE CRAZY than the other. So my advice to the idiots here, since the other side is glaringly absent;
Give up the “THIS” and get on with THAT!
Peace Out
Robble Rubble
Oct 27th, 2011
@Reader
“I don’t support either side. I just happen to notice that one side is WAY MORE CRAZY than the other. So my advice to the idiots here, since the other side is glaringly absent;
Give up the “THIS” and get on with THAT!”
While you have a valid point, I would like to make a counterargument: Everyone needs a hobby. What else would I do in my lulls at work or university besides pull out my phone and argue with people on the internet?
For someone who doesn’t have a dog in this hunt you sure do love camping on this blog, arguing with everyone who posts. It’s pretty hard to attempt to shame people when you sit on this blog hitting F5 for hours at a time.
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
LOL tux you are sure sensitive to criticism about stupid griefer avi’s…I wonder why? but so what, it is not “illegal” to make fun of them, so by your logic, too bad for you. I think the The Penguin comes from the same place as Superman. me/ shrugs
And the ‘stupid griefer avi who is just playing his game’ is playing a game that makes other people unhappy and is not fair to them, and they don’t want the griefer to do what he/she is doing. That is the difference. So it is not ‘just playing a game’ it is playing a game that is unethical and wrong. Which is what you supposedly believe when you feel it is convenient.
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
Robble,
I might spin the vortex up to F5 on occasion, when properly inspired, but the frequency of my participation is gnats-ass compared to most the RDD dwellers. This is a research project for me , which is a dog in the hunt of a different breed. You can call him Bowzer.
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
And one other thing Robble, I don’t argue with “everyone” on this blog – I only speak up in opposing contrast when what I “read” is off-base, undersubstantiated or simply utter BS.
Let me give you guys (and you know who you are…) a bit of advice;
don’t speak in generalizations, don’t keep playing the repetitive card unless it’s absolutely necessary and find ways to keep it relevant – or else – dump the load and move on. As far as what you choose to do in your “lull periods”, I say do what you can but don’t get caught – but conversely, don’t undermine the ongoing proposition by slogging it in an off-the-cuff manner like you just did. There’s alot (<- spelled like that to be funny…) "else" you could be doing.
Robble Rubble
Oct 27th, 2011
@Reader
“find ways to keep it relevant”
So what are your thoughts on the recent collapse of the JLU’s PD sister group that recently collapsed under a hail of questioning from various residents?
Do you think that demonstrates that residents can effect some changes on the grid without Linden intervention?
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Ok
I am really confused.
Tux describes that SL is a game and imposing my morals on the game and others is wrong.
So why are you all bitching about JLU, So what they are insensitive to a person. Or Documenting and tracking you all. They just have different morals than you and playing the game differently.
So what they want to play SL superhero, its what they enjoy doing. Its what they get to do to pass their time.
So they have a super secret wiki with chat logs and information taken from many websites. Nothing Illegal with that. Its all out their isn’t it, found on face book, live journal, Wikis. So they just collect it in one nice location for them to review.
In SL its against the rules to share chat logs in world or on Linden Lab sponsored websites. They are able to get around the game by having a wiki.
They call a school, and tell the schools dean that a person who represents the school is griefing others. Nothing illegal about that.
If you are wearing a tag and you are representing the school. Then you should be held accountable.
So these arguments that Tux makes applies all in reverse.
What has the JLU done to break the labs games rules?
We aren’t talking Moral rules since Tux explains that is RL and can not be applied to SL.
Robble Rubble
Oct 27th, 2011
@Everyone
Do you guys think that Prok got banned or it was just a “billing issue”? She’s not showing up in her groups either this time, something big may be happening.
Senban Babii
Oct 27th, 2011
@Robble
“Do you guys think that Prok got banned or it was just a “billing issue”? She’s not showing up in her groups either this time, something big may be happening.”
Oh god let this be true. I swear I’ll be good forever, just let this one thing be true.
Doctor Yootz
Oct 27th, 2011
@rob
I was suspended only once, and while that time i was still on search.
just sayin…
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
@ Paul
‘I think the The Penguin comes from the same place as Superman. me/ shrugs’
How wise you are – not. Everyone knows that the Fortress of Solitude was traditionally in the North Pole, whilst penguins in the south. Unless you mean ‘The Penguin’ aka Oswald Cobblepot, in which case you are wrong again. Superman is from the planet Krypton, The Penguin from Earth. Lol.
And believe me I am not sensitive about it, I am merely trying to point out you cannot have one rule for one, and a completely different rule for another. How someone dresses their AV is entirely up to them and your insult thereof proves your bigotry. And you are right it is not illegal, but it is against the CS/TOS, as pointed out by one of you three.
Robble Rubble
Oct 27th, 2011
Please be reminded that this isn’t the first time something like this happened to Prok, for a while her alt account Random Unsung was taken out of search, groups, etc… and that account came back and is still around.
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux’s argument so far:
1) Despite the fact that the world is unfair, there is indeed right and wrong, and it is wrong to bully other people or to randomly interfere with their quiet enjoyment of life.
2) However, inworld, you can do whatever you want, just because you can, no matter how it impacts other people who are enjoying the game, even if it spoils their role-play, even if it damages their builds, even if it impacts their inworld income.
3) Despite the fact that you can do whatever you want in the game, no one has the right to judge bad behavior when it happens inworld.
4) Being insensitive is allowed when you randomly mess up a stranger’s gameplay, but while insensitivity to another human being inworld is allowed and part of the game, insensitivity in RL is reprehensible.
5) ethical, moral, and legal ambiguity can be tolerated by griefers, but there is only one standard when applied to vigilantes.
6) Data mining is unethical and illegal when others do it, but not when I do it.
7) and of course, behavior is only unethical or immoral if it is illegal.
did I get it all?
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
@ Paul
’6) Data mining is unethical and illegal when others do it, but not when I do it.’
Explain your accusation.
The rest is not worth responding to.
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux said: “I am merely trying to point out you cannot have one rule for one, and a completely different rule for another”
You are asking for consistency? Ok…then why do you have one standard for correct behavior towards your fellow residents inworld, and another standard of behavior towards your fellow citizens/subjects in RL?
Senban Babii
Oct 27th, 2011
Even Twitter now has a new hashtag to help us all share this joyous day in meaningful ways.
#adaywithoutprok
Tux
Oct 27th, 2011
@ Paul
GJ ignoring my previous post.
‘You are asking for consistency? Ok…then why do you have one standard for correct behavior towards your fellow residents inworld, and another standard of behavior towards your fellow citizens/subjects in RL?’
Firstly I am not of Royalty, nor in any position of power, I therefore have no subjects XD
Secondly, I don’t know how to get this through to you. It is impossible to have the same behavioural standards between a game and RL. I cannot force you to understand, nor would I try.
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
Tux,
I am wondering as well.
Paul listed that out is that some up your view? That is how i take what you have been saying.
All your responses in here have lead to that summary.
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
“6) Data mining is unethical and illegal when others do it, but not when I do it.”
Tux & TWH’s went after a database deemed potentionally illegal but most certainly a brow-raiser from all accounts. Then they (TWH+) subsequently went through it (in tactical fashion) and publicized it’s otherwise private content in selected bits. Secondary datamining is what it is. Instigating a riot with the act of breaking into the Wiki isn’t an end that justifies the means.
Tux, you and your brochachos are no better than the JLU & when you add the obsessive mental illness factor, it tips the scale until it crashes to the floor and spills out all over the floor like the smelly guts that it is… (color added in the spirit of the season and in tribute to George Romero…)
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
@Sen, go knit Afghan or something.
Reader
Oct 27th, 2011
Hi5! Paul
That summary list is nicely outlined.
James Doe
Oct 27th, 2011
@Tux
“Secondly, I don’t know how to get this through to you. It is impossible to have the same behavioural standards between a game and RL. I cannot force you to understand, nor would I try.”
OK
I have thrown out all my RL morals. I can do what ever the hell i want in the game as long as 1.) Its doesn’t break the games designed rules TOS/CS or 2.) I break the rules and don’t get caught.
Does that sum it up?
Paul
Oct 27th, 2011
It is not impossible, Tux. Either it is wrong to behave badly to another person or it is not wrong.
You seem to be saying that it is perfectly fine to go up to two complete strangers in SL who are engaged in a role-play that they have both agreed on in a parcel that they have carefully built and then completely destroy their investment in time and energy just to show that you can, and because it is a game and it is not illegal. Then, you say that if it were you children playing an elaborate role-play in a treefort or something, and someone comes along and demolishes the fort and ruins their play, it is wrong.
are the people in SL somehow different then the children in the tree fort? Why is it impossible to have the same behavioral standards in both examples?
Maybe you don’t want to answer that question, “or try”, but you certainly spend a lot of words rationalizing and obfuscating why you think there SHOULD be different behavioral standards in the two examples.