Understanding the “Little Hitlers” of Second Life
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/10/11 at 1:50 am
I’ve long wondered at the connection between Second Life’s endless supply of over-the-top drama and the strange psychology of certain players -- particularly those seriously invested in “defending” Linden Lab and “policing” the Second Life grid.
What is it about Second Life that attracts and retains obsessive-compulsive meta-gamerz who can’t keep their play inside the game?
Do large land tier payments to the Lab trump civil discourse even when Lab staff are swept up in an ugly cycle of Twitter/Google bombing payback as we saw with the LabRatuOut mess? After a concerted effort to attract the Lab’s attention to the recent excesses of the Justice League Unlimited, some of my friends in The Pink Hands faction are getting a bit cynical.
the Pink Hands faction is becoming cynical about Linden Lab
The golden rule seems to be in effect - those spending the virtual gold, rule. Perhaps Rod Humble is just hoping he can finish his new not-SL mobile-device-enabled game before the house of cards falls.
Meanwhile, consider notoriously toxic trolls such as Jumpman Lane, Kalel Venkman’s Justice League Unlimited vigilantes, or Prokofy Neva -- and the level of effort required to spend years tracking and data-mining other players or mounting an endless series of intensive blog, Twitter, and Google bombing campaigns designed to humiliate and destroy enemies.
Forgiveness and redemption seem to be alien concepts for some trolls upstanding Second Life residents, which implies a deep psychological need is being addressed. What exactly is going on?
A recent article in The Economist describing how “quite ordinary people will succumb to bad behaviour if the circumstances are right” may hold some answers.
According to the article, Nathanael Fast of the University of Southern California and colleagues at Northwestern and Stanford universities ran a series of experiments to see if social circumstances around power and status have the potential to create “little Hitlers” who annoy and frustrate others for their own gratification - or are certain individuals predisposed to this sort of behaviour simply gravitating into situations where they can behave badly?
The experiments randomly placed participants into one of 4 groups: high power/high status, low power/low status, low power/high status, and high power/low status. Participants were given the option of forcing other participants to perform humiliating actions -- or not.
Those in the low status/high power group chose significantly more demeaning tasks to impose onto other participants, while those in the other 3 groups did not exhibit this behaviour.
Does this mean that the more extreme guardians of Second Life feel they are in a position of low status in real life and are compensating by harassing and humiliating those within their reach?
If, as the study suggests, the combination of low status and high power is a recipe for trouble, I am beginning to think the celebrated free social media tools which empower those dedicated to cultivating their Internet notoriety may contain the seeds of their own destruction as the "little Hitlers" of the social media use their online power to trash everyone else.
Do you still want to play Web 2.0 after watching Jumpman Lane’s Twitter assault on Stroker Serpentine, LabRatuOut’s assault on Esbee Linden, or after following Prokofy Neva’s carefully crafted Google bombing attacks on all and sundry? How do you feel after learning that Kalel Venkman is still expanding and unsuccessfully attempting to secure his Brainiac wiki data mine?
Is this the sort of game you want to play?
Senban Babii
Oct 28th, 2011
@Paul
“I am curious, do you think that affecting an adult’s voice chiding me as a child improves my understanding of your perspective?”
No, I’ve long since realised that you either lack the ability to understand my arguments or you willing twist them to mean something else. I’m inclined to believe the latter. Therefore I’ve adopted the policy of not giving you the respect of speaking adult to adult.
“Ok that is fine (I guess), but if you adopt this perspective as your own, you have to live with its implications: you are doing so with the explicit understanding that you DO NOT CARE whether or not the people around you are also willing participants in your grand experiment in morality.”
Completely incorrect and an example of what I was just saying.
I *observe* these behaviours from an outside perspective. Remember the anthropologist analogy from a few minutes back? It’s not *my* grand experiment
“From my perspective, this is, at its finest, grandiose rationalization for selfish and bad behavior.”
I challenge you then to find one legitimate example of me griefing in SL since I joined in July 2007. You won’t. What you will find is me enjoying the experience of being part of a dynamic world with various cultural groups banging against each other. Recently I’ve stepped outside the world once more, purely because too many people can’t respect the difference between inworld and outworld.
But hey, feel free to keep attempting to question my ability and credibility to take part in these discussions. I find it jolly
Now, go and wash your hands, your dinner’s ready, don’t make me call you to the table again young man
Reader
Oct 28th, 2011
I’ll go for the low hanging fruit Sen:
“Oh well, I couldn’t even tell you what groups I’m even in without logging in.” – - passive ignorance doesn’t fly, nor do pigs with pixel lipstick and receding hair-lines.
You know very well what groups you’ve eagerly joined, as a few KEY ones fall right in line with your rah rah sis boom bah attitude keenly focused on the spandex brigade and supporters of the “realm”.
You are officially on the discredited list until you prove to be more lucid and engaging..
Reader
Oct 28th, 2011
And this Sen:
“I don’t get snarky over things posted on forums…”
You should reread your scattered blather – all over the WWW in fact – you are one snarky SOB. Be proud of that. Denial and delusion doesn’t suite you; nor does the receding hair-line.
Any real anthropologist will tell you that “consistency” is job number one.
James Doe
Oct 28th, 2011
Senban Babii
Ok Lets follow my logic and yours.
I will say yes we all play the game differently or have different ideas of what second life is.
So ok griefers are allowed in within the rules and TOS/CS set up by linden labs.
Now the tricky bit is this. I own land a roleplay sim have to comply with the TOS/CS but i can also say NO FURRY avatars allowed.
Even though the TOS says no discrimination. But the role-play I am playing doesn’t allow for furries. So its ok to discriminate.
So moving my objects on land I have rented or own. Is a violation of the TOS/CS and my enjoyment so i have the right to file an abuse report. Just like I have the right not to file it because I found it funny.
So then with this logic, then the spandex brigade is allowed to do what they do as well. correct?
Why is everyone all hurt about what the JLU is doing. They are just another form of a griefer no? Just playing Second Life the way they want to.
Now the TOS/CS of the labs allows people to make Abuse reports on people. JLU members just have mastered the ins and outs of making abuse reports. They are beating the so called Woodbury Wrong Hands griefers within the game according to the rules set up by the Lab.
So In me accepting that we all play it different, then you will also need to accept the JLU is just playing the game their way. Even if they are taking stuff to their wiki or phone calls. Since some of the griefers take it to the web its no different.
Senban Babii
Oct 28th, 2011
@Reader
“You know very well what groups you’ve eagerly joined, as a few KEY ones fall right in line with your rah rah sis boom bah attitude keenly focused on the spandex brigade and supporters of the “realm”.”
It’s often true that fans know things about their favourite celebrities that the celebrities themselves have long since forgotten. I thank you for your keen interest in me, can I count on your vote in the forthcoming elections? Buy my book where I reveal all about what happened that night after the Post 6 Parrrty
But if you’re referring to my membership in TBC, that’s from so long ago it’s virtually a walk down Nostalgia Lane
And if you’re referring to my membership in The Pink Hands? Damn right
I might not be active inworld but I do support the TPH objective of ridding SL of the JLU.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6178684594_863767e7b8_b.jpg
Hmm, I can’t think of any other groups you’d have issue with. Maybe JLU Wiki Opt-Out? Does that even still exist? Not sure.
“You are officially on the discredited list until you prove to be more lucid and engaging..”
You’d be amazed at how upset I am right now. No, really
Wubble wubble sclup
James Doe
Oct 28th, 2011
Senban Babii
I might not be active inworld but I do support the TPH objective of ridding SL of the JLU
Wait I keep reading and hearing everywhere that TPH are not about getting rid of the JLU in Second Life. But they are a bunch of people that support Internet Privacy in SL and the Web.
Has the goal changed?
Then that would explain why Robble panties are in a twist cause he can’t figure out who i am. Or wants to know who I am.
Senban Babii
Oct 28th, 2011
@James Doe
Okay these are fair questions, so I’ll give a fair opinion
“Now the tricky bit is this. I own land a roleplay sim have to comply with the TOS/CS but i can also say NO FURRY avatars allowed.
Even though the TOS says no discrimination.”
Well although I personally think that discriminating that way is strange in a roleplay environment, I agree it’s your choice. I might try and persuade you otherwise but at the end of the day, I agree that it is your call.
“So moving my objects on land I have rented or own. Is a violation of the TOS/CS and my enjoyment so i have the right to file an abuse report.”
Hmm, now we’re getting into less clear waters. Moving the objects in itself, how is that a TOS violation? Can you state a specific TOS clause? That might help. However, *if* the objects are movable in nature then although you might find it annoying, their ability to be moved by anyone means that anyone can move them. You’d have to show that you took steps to prevent them moving the objects in the first place I would say. So in that case, I’d argue that you might not necessarily have the right to file an abuse report.
“So then with this logic, then the spandex brigade is allowed to do what they do as well. correct?
Why is everyone all hurt about what the JLU is doing. They are just another form of a griefer no? Just playing Second Life the way they want to.”
Hmm, I’m going to disagree. I’ll explain why below.
“Now the TOS/CS of the labs allows people to make Abuse reports on people.”
True. However, in effect an abuse report is stepping outside of the playground and going to find teacher to tattletale that Billy stole your doll. Can you see what I mean? Now fine, that’s the mechanism, it’s how that works. While the JLU abuse that system (in my opinion), it remains the current system.
But what the JLU then do is go further. They go outside the school gates and dig around to find out ways to prevent Billy ever coming into the playground again. Is my analogy still holding up? Instead of finding ways to keep the play within the playground, only going to find teacher when really necessary, they extend the game as far as they can and all in an attempt to control the playground. In that regard they literally are little more than schoolyard bullies. Can you see what I mean?
I suppose another way to think about it is that they wait outside the schoolyard gates en masse after school and beat people up. That way, no one in the playground is willing to stand against them.
“Since some of the griefers take it to the web its no different.”
Well this is the problem. I don’t think anyone – *anyone* should step outside the playspace to gain unfair advantage within the playspace. It means the game becomes something different entirely and nasty. Once a game reaches that state – as SL has in my opinion – the only winning move is not to play. That doesn’t mean you can’t continue to watch the game and comment but sadly therein lies the problem. Because the borders of the game have already been expanded in people’s perceptions, even someone sitting at the side observing and commenting is considered part of the game and attacked.
So there you go James Doe. You asked a fair question, I’ve given you a polite reply to outline my thinking.
Senban Babii
Oct 28th, 2011
@James Doe
“Wait I keep reading and hearing everywhere that TPH are not about getting rid of the JLU in Second Life. But they are a bunch of people that support Internet Privacy in SL and the Web.
Has the goal changed?”
Well this goes back to what I’ve been telling you. I pay virtually no attention to what is going on inworld. It’s very possible that the TPH goals have changed. I don’t know and don’t really care. My goal is the same as it always was, to stop people like the JLU from stepping outside of the boundaries of the game seeking ways to take out anyone who questions them. For me, it’s nothing more than standing up to bullies.
Reader
Oct 28th, 2011
“I pay virtually no attention to what is going on inworld.”
“My goal is the same as it always was, to stop people like the JLU from stepping outside of the boundaries of the game seeking ways to take out anyone who questions them. For me, it’s nothing more than standing up to bullies..”
Obsess-o-lifer with a bottomless cup of contradiction.
Lose the snarky attitude, buy a rug to hide the receding hair-line and most importantly – get your story straight. Do you even read your own stuff Sen? Jesus Holy….
Reader
Oct 28th, 2011
I was waiting for a funny, you know, Friday something or other bit of comedy to kick off the weekend.
““I pay virtually no attention to what is going on inworld.”’
You delivered Sen!
Thanks
Reader
Oct 28th, 2011
Disappointed that the usual (idiot) subjects turned into hollow-weenies today by not showing up. I suppose it’s apropo and all in the spirit of the season. The shit burger of truth & logic was probably too hard to swallow and made them sick to their core as well. Sen and hobo-cluster gave it their best shot as replacement goblins. Better luck next time. Another fun go-around with the idiot crew this week without a doubt.. Proved to be fruitful. Kudos to JD & Paul for keeping it real and on substance.
Also can’t wait to see the next big “storyline” of who dressed up as what and showed up at Kalel’s doorstep for laughs. Is GLE the next logical RL target perhaps? Anyone running odds on these deals? If so, want in!
Happy Halloween everyone! time to cut loose and enjoy the haunts…
IntLibber
Oct 28th, 2011
Geeze Kalolz, thanks for keeping up the comment avalanche to push this article to number two most popular in Herald history…
Senban Babii
Oct 28th, 2011
@Reader
“Lose the snarky attitude”
But it’s my most charming feature
“buy a rug to hide the receding hair-line”
Interesting, you’ve made this or similar comments a couple of times now. It’s amusing. I could always just shave off my beard and use that as a rug, I’ll do that I think. I’m keeping the ear hair though, it’s good for storing marshmallows, though not during high winds.
See, you’re thinking oh wow we know who Senban Babii is and you’re dropping hints in an attempt to scare and intimidate me. Woe is upon me at this time etc.
You know what would happen if you revealed what you know to the world? Nothing whatsoever. As my mentor Pix (well, according to Prok anyway) said on that recent SLCC panel, no matter how much effort you put into an identity, sooner or later it will unravel.
But here’s the thing. Go down that route and you’re doing the exact thing I’ve been talking about. Stepping outside the magic circle in an attempt to silence your enemies through intimidation and threat. You can see that, right? And knowing me as you do, do you honestly think it would stop me being an observer and commenter?
With apologies to Chris Carter
Krycek: “If Senban’s such a threat, why not eliminate her?”
Smoking Man: “That’s not policy.”
Krycek: “It’s not? After what you had me do?”
Smoking Man: “Kill Senban and you risk turning one woman’s religion into a crusade.”
“Do you even read your own stuff Sen?”
Hell no, it’s garbage. Even I don’t listen to me and I am me! Snark snark
Senban Babii
Oct 28th, 2011
@IntLibber
“Geeze Kalolz, thanks for keeping up the comment avalanche to push this article to number two most popular in Herald history…”
Only number two? Come on people, snark harder!
Tux
Oct 28th, 2011
It’s Ok I am back, no need to panic. And I am sure not reading all those posts, could someone sensible summarise?
Also Reader:
‘Happy Halloween everyone! time to cut loose and enjoy the haunts…’
Premature much? You should have asked Kalel what day Halloween is on, he knows. It is one of the days he leaves his family to be with his byte on the side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween – ‘Halloween (or Hallowe’en) is an annual holiday observed on October 31′
Get-A-Grip
Oct 28th, 2011
Well all I can say if the Juvenile Lascivious Union is a example of Second Life Saints then I sure would rather hang with the sinners then join that pious bunch of nutters. It is not NATURAL or NORMAL for people to take that much INTEREST in other peoples children. Only to dog them through second life (sometimes into real life) under the pretense of protection…
Wow. I think the kids need protected from the J.L.U. epically after reading the continuing posts on this thread. They seem to feel this need to justify their existence by calming to protect CHILDREN? Then using that as an excuse to stalk and harass same said children. When called on their twisted actions they make excuses and launch ad-homonym attacks on anyone that dares to say that this behavior is suspect…? Me thinks they protest too much, to quote the Bard.
I hope that the Simi Valley police make a few extra patrols by Vinki’s house this Halloween… Just in cast Vinki decides some innocent child knocking on his door NEEDS his SPECIAL protection and gets something more then candy. They should watch and be sure every child that enters that portal returns safely and un-molested back to the REAL world. Not staggering drunkenlyly and walking bowlegged, but as they entered innocent and sober.
People that LACK control in their own lives often seek to control others and who is easiest for them to control? Children, the young and innocent. What more needs to be said about the JLU and their claims about how much the CHILDREN NEED THEIR protection, more like need protection from them. This need for CONTROL children is often put forth as a need to protect the same children because they rationalize to protect them they MUST control them. Or shall we say GROOM them for other things…
Anyway anyone with any I.Q. at all should see this behavior as unhealthy. There seems to be much more attraction to other peoples kids then is healthy in that group. I think that parents that have children in second life should warn their children not to accept candy from adults posing as SuperZero’s, in SL or RL for that matter.
@JUU I hope the Pink Hands catch you RED Handed…
An Ex Player
Oct 29th, 2011
You are all here talking about the game, how it works, and stuff.
Everybody knows how that silly game works, whos behind it, and its all about real life money laundring with gambling and porn.
LL hides behind alts and creates drama to feed your gossip needs.
use your brain, get smart. They are intelligent criminals, no more no less.
Whats the only way to stop that crime going on?
Simple: just dont be a part of it.
you dont like it? leave it.
all the drama is the trick by LL to keep you inworld they need you and your attention, your money, to keep running their criminal business.
LEAVE IT.
BE FREE.
PEACE.
James Doe
Oct 29th, 2011
@Senban Babii
To Answer some of your Questions:
Moving Objects with out concent would fall under this.
Just because you can do things according to the Lab it is against the TOS/CS so could be an abuse of the system.
“6.Disturbing the Peace
Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident’s ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace. ”
Now yes Every Redident has a right to live their Second Life. This is true with in the rules of Second Life.
Global Attacks
Objects, scripts, or actions which broadly interfere with or disrupt the Second Life community, the Second Life servers or other systems related to Second Life will not be tolerated in any form. We will hold you responsible for any actions you take, or that are taken by objects or scripts that belong to you. Sandboxes are available for testing objects and scripts that have components that may be unmanageable or whose behavior you may not be able to predict. If you chose to use a script that substantially disrupts the operation of Second Life, disciplinary actions will result in a minimum two-week suspension, the possible loss of in-world inventory, and a review of your account for probable expulsion from Second Life.
Now here is the one that keeps getting some of these people kicked out over and over.
Alternate Accounts
While Residents may choose to play Second Life with more than one account, specifically or consistently using an alternate account to harass other Residents or violate the Community Standards is not acceptable. Alternate accounts are generally treated as separate from a Resident’s principal account, but misuse of alternate accounts can and will result in disciplinary action on the principal account.
These griefers can enjoy their sl yet they choose to go harrass the same people over and over. Or others. So Lets not mix words here.
Many of this JLU issue is that they provide the griefers here with a perfect target and the JLU keeps getting them.
JLU are not the only people who took things to RL or the WEB.
Where do you define that magic circle? What does that Magic Circle include.
I read I avatar was an intresting book, I disagreed with the idea that we are testing moralities.
Lets look at it this way since you brought it up.
In Second lifeone can spam and kill people or have intercourse with an animal. So if we are testing the boundries of this that implies we will be able to eventually Kill a person with out repercusions. We will be able to have intercourse with an animal. As you say Thats the breaking of the magic circle but thats what testing morals would be. To eventually bring these morals to RL and allow us to do more things with a different Moral code.
James Doe
Oct 29th, 2011
Now Question for you JLU haters.
How come Fred is not posting the chat logs that make the griefers look bad. Their are many chat logs in the wiki that show the actions of the the griefers that hang around alot are just as bad as the JLU.
Yes I know you have an agenda but lets face it. you are not saints and all innocent.
James Doe
Oct 29th, 2011
So Tux isn’t obsessed with the JLU?
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/tux-winkler/2b/905/4aa
Tux Winkler’s Summary
Director of the UK office of the TWH. Although we have offices throughout the world, the UK and the US have the main HQ’s.
We specialist in exposing security and privacy violations.
We are more super than Superman!
Tux, really you have a linked in profile a place most professionals use to help each other locate jobs? really? Seems your missing that RL vs SL line.
@Senban Babii
If a person uses an exploit in second life to “Move and Object, Change an Object” would that be a violation and considered harassment in your view?
Senban Babii
Oct 29th, 2011
@James Doe
“Moving Objects with out concent would fall under this.”
In your opinion. What I mean is that you could interpret that clause the way you have chosen to but I think it’s a very broad clause that you’re trying to unreasonably narrow down to an extent that isn’t necessarily appropriate. However neither of us has anything but an opinion as we’re not the arbiters of TOS application
“Where do you define that magic circle?”
For myself personally, the magic circle of SL is inworld vs outworld. Some might argue that the circle extends to third party media such as the discussion we’re having now. It’s kind of a grey area and as I’m still thinking through the ideas, I’m going to avoid making a definitive statement there. But my gut instinct says the magic circle lies between inworld and outworld. I’ll get back to you on that one
“I read I avatar was an intresting book, I disagreed with the idea that we are testing moralities.”
Have you read Boellstorff too? Plenty in there to get you thinking about these issues too.
A friend of mine is an author and in the prologue to one of his recent books he mentioned that not everyone would agree with the ideas he was about to put forth but that this was fine and natural. The whole point of a book is not to define but to initiate. Take my recent blog thing. It has initiated two further blogs that are going to push what I originally wrote, test it, break it and gradually improve upon it. Which was exactly my intention
“If a person uses an exploit in second life to “Move and Object, Change an Object” would that be a violation and considered harassment in your view?”
I’m going to use a meatworld analogy here. I’m sitting at home watching Doctor Who (aren’t the new Daleks rubbish?) Everything is quiet and normal and suddenly from outside I hear loud music. Someone walks past my house carrying one of those big pop music stereo cassette player things. They walk past, everything returns to normal.
The next night, the same thing happens, only now there’s a stream of these people, say one a minute.
The next night, one stops right outside my house and sits there for an hour.
Now, which one of these is griefing? The first one isn’t. It’s a momentary annoyance. The third one obviously is. The second one might be or it might simply be a consequence of where I have chosen to live.
So if I go sit on your sim and rez armies of self-replicating Daleks everywhere, that’s griefing. If I happen to be passing through and rez a single Dalek, it’s not griefing, it’s a minor annoyance. If you find a reasonably regular stream of single Daleks being rezzed, it could be a bit of water-torture griefing or you could have chosen to live in an area populated with Doctor Who fans.
So in the case of Robble moving a single prim? No, I don’t personally consider that griefing. I’d say hey, it’s a minor annoyance, get over it. A long time ago I rented a place in SL. I logged in one day to find someone had rezzed a couple of big transparent prims inside my house, filling the interior, making it impossible for me to get in. I found it hilarious personally. It was dealt with in no time of course, a minor annoyance that became an amusing memory.
Now, you then get people who in effect leave themselves wide open for this kind of thing. It’s honestly a consequence of that fact that they want the world to be different than it really is. In the case of Robble and the prim, okay I can understand why it was left as anyone can move but knowing that there are foxes, was this wise? Look at Prok and her land issues. She’s constantly blogging about oh this alt (usually blaming Tux) did this or that on my land. Okay, frustrating but she leaves herself totally open for these things to happen. She knows there are people stirring her up constantly and yet she steadfastly refuses to make even simple changes that would prevent 99% of the problems. Now that’s not about blaming the victim but it is about saying the victim has to take all reasonable precautions to prevent the problem in the first place.
Just some thoughts anyway.
Tux
Oct 29th, 2011
@ JD
‘Tux, really you have a linked in profile a place most professionals use to help each other locate jobs? really? Seems your missing that RL vs SL line.’
I have no idea who made that, although I would like it. Personally I don’t need social media to promote my work, I have more than enough already tbh. But with all this efame Tux will never die. Maybe I could utilise that in some way.
hobo kelly
Oct 29th, 2011
Mischief Makers! Happy Caturday!
I just checked and the Wolf is still gone from the meadow!
So to celebrate, this Caturday morning we have 2, count ‘em, 2 cartoons for your viewing enjoyment.
First we rock the wayback machine back to 1969 and the Disney production of the Russian: Peter and the Wolf, written by Prokofiev where the happy band finally get rid of the serious business wolf. Read into it what you may but the theme music is great for listening to while making commerative teeshirts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7m9i70JDg
And for our bonus caturday cartoon we go riding along on a wild W-hat Night Out. We have your cartoon needs covered this morning on AHTV, come on along!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUSAWGDDwo
(secret word for the day: codizzo firehawk)
Tux
Oct 29th, 2011
As the trio have finally realised they are doing more harm than good, and all is quiet most everywhere else, I decided to read Prok’s Magic circle post.
First thing I realised is she is an avid reader of the Herald! Then I noticed a lack of my name, I am disappointed. No really. But, as the trio on here, I notice she too has a lack of division between SL and RL. An example of this is how she writes this:
‘Online is only for the criminal, the gang, the thug, those with overwhelming force who can make others do their will.’
I have never known LL to use the term criminal for resis and they make the rules. The only criminals I have ever heard of in SL are in RP’s. Surely she doesn’t mean RL criminals, because who knows? I certainly do not know of any method to detect RL criminals in SL. Nor would I want to TBH. The reason is simple, what difference does it make who the players are? Unless they are committing RL crimes during gameplay that is!
And then she goes on to a debate with herself about opting in/out, and who griefers are pretty much the only thing the requires an opt out. Which of course is BS. There are many things in SL which have no opt in or out, you just don’t get a choice if you wish to remain playing. Obviously everyone has the ability to opt out, simply close the game if you getting so upset about it. Go wash your hair, tidy yourself up. IDK.
Here is her example:
‘There is no opt-out with a griefer. The griefer consumes and subsumes your magic circle and annhilates it. You didn’t think having flying penises was a good idea at your press conference, but you have no choice. ‘
Of course this too is completely wrong. Why not make sure build is off or set to group? You know like all the valid press people do? Not like the wannabe’s that leave it on in the hopes they will get griefed so they can get more attention and be able to claim the victim for years after. Of course most griefers will not even know the event is happening, so make sure you get on an alt the day before and suggest it. Instant ratings.
She then goes on:
‘He keeps pouncing and falling, pouncing and falling, trying to get me to somehow commit a TOS violation or some act of “hyprokisy” — it’s pathetic to watch him cavort.’
And yet as of this moment in time she is still banned. That is the true hiPROKisy!
She cannot do a post with mentioning TWH:
‘True to their bad-faith essence, the members of TWH themselves began to act badly, threatening, stalking, exposing via their own servers or other means — even as they accused the JLU of doing this.’
Of course, I missed this. Perhaps she could explain.
‘The undisputed facts remain: those accounts are permabanned because they did things that were wrong and in violation of the TOS; whatever you want to say about the JLU, they are still in the People list.’
Unlike Prok XD.
I sort of skipped to the comments then. I rarely read all of her posts, they all end up the same. However, Charles Mott mentioned me XD. Charles demonstrates he shares the JLU’s obsession with my game credits and land though. Which I find hysterical. No one (pay attention Prok) should have more in a game than they can afford. Any money I put into the game is spent, I do not expect it back. It is disposable. Putting money into a game you can’t afford is absolutely crazy. I have never understood people who play beyond their means.
My biggest issue with this is how it affects other players (and don’t think I care that much, I am making a point). You see when a land baron, however small, gets the boot all the tenants are in a situation where they have lost money, homes, and in some cases, they inventory. Virtually speaking of course. This is either the ultimate troll or extreme griefing.
Now, Prok, tell me that is worse than some griefer spending 5 mins with particles or lolcubes?
Bunjie
Oct 29th, 2011
I was in Greenzone chat yesterday, anyone else see when that group chat took place about a 1day old sending some of it’s members t-shirts that allegedly said the Greenzone hud was a greifer tool?
This is a good one and I believe proves Kalel has his underpants in a twist over it being discovered/marked out by the GZ hud in any form (when it does work), and probably the reason why we don’t hear from them is because they’re focused on trying to destroy the GZ hud through psyops.
This is just my understanding/perspective on what happened.
After the t-shirt gifting resulted in the group chat opening up (rolls eyes) one alleged 5 year old account a merchant using PZ piped in about it being true that the GZ hud was a greifer tool and that Phantom Zone was a good system and it was “clean” and as soon as I piped in about it either that guy was taking the piss or he and the JLU was running some psyop (totally a psyop) because if he really thinks the GZ hud is a griefer tool and Phantom Zone is “clean” and the JLU have never lied to him and that we’re wrong for pointing those systems out so people can ar him or avoid him, I can only paw palm in disbelief as I just can’t believe some people can be so dumb.
He said SLU was all just greifers and the JLU wiki was fabricated and to top that off he accused anyone of being against such systems as wanting merchants to lower their “security” and those type of people support copybotting/exploiting clients because one guy who was talking back and defending the GZ hud was open-source in his views on other issues.
Not to forget the party line of that alt detection was “legal” before the TOS change was more specific. (that’s more than enough to raise a red flag with me).
I’m particularly perplexed by the fact another 6day old can be such a “Little Hitler” and by my understanding running an obvious psyop in that group without being removed by a mod, considering the fact that this guy compares Phantom Zone to Norton antivirus with the reason they are both not open-source or why we don’t know what’s in it or what it fully does, is so the bad guy don’t win.
(I piped in about Norton being run by a corp and have to abide by real world laws vs the PZ being run by the JLU a bunch of cunts that avoid the TOS or do what ever they want).
That 6yo account doing the Norton comparison was clearly a JLU as I believe he said something to the effect that Phantom Zone bans based on copybot client or that’s at least what I thought he said (fast but laggy chat on my end, on SL2 Beta) but he could have been referring to voodoo but he didn’t seem clear about it and then seemed to cover it up that I was the only one talking about the JLU in that chat when the merchant guy above started it by talking about PZ after someone sent it’s member’s t-shirts to get them talking (rolls eyes I wonder why that happened).
(Clearly an op – funny how that merchant vanished / totally stopped talking a while back after he ran out of party line to spout then the 6yo account started branding me as the only one talking about the JLU to cover it up, because I think I slightly along with the other guy ruined their momentum)
If he was a JLU (totally a JLU alt) and they compare putting residents on ban-link type systems to black listing and catching viruses I find it pretty disgusting they can take that attitude, residents are people/human beings not bots and this when such systems are proven to have so much cross over with regards to “Little Hitlers” forcing their law mentally into other residents magic circles, if they see PZ as an antivirus client/service well I’m more so pretty disgusted that they don’t care at all about residents being people with lives, and that they still seem stuck in this mentality of they’re right and they need to catch the bad guys regardless of who it hurts or who gets in the way.
I don’t see why this sort of mentality should be accepted in any form, we all know nothing can protect you in second life from being exploited, if they want your stuff no system can stop them (at least the none noob ones) and we all know it’s just really about localizing power into their hands (JLU) so why hasn’t Linden Lab put the boot in fully and removed them or at least permanently made ban-link type systems or sharing lists of residents to ban a perma-banable offence.
It’s all about the placebo right? without merchants feeling protected and able to send in ar’s that work or at least get a resolution the whole ponzi scheme would fall apart and people would realize Linden Lab is a bad investment, as neither Linden Lab can protect you from being exploited and neither do they care if you do as I see no forward momentum on marketplace pixel/image comparison tools for merchants or in-world comparison coding to cross reference what’s been active in world/in-magic box over the past hour/two+ and flag up copy’s that have the same xml/build structure.
There was some momentum on some server side code that would detect rapid build, but I guess as most merchants use xml import etc and that it was cheaper to let such CDS/Voodoo/Redzone systems do the work for them (until the complaints get too much) they leaned in favor of doing fuck all and letting people take the placebo to shut up 90% of emotionally flaky merchants.
PZ if “clean” has nothing to do with protecting against copy exploit clients, and if it does or they/he did just claim in that chat it can well then like I said before it’s the front end of a larger system that does IP data mine and uses exploits itself in some form or they’re just miss representing themselves and are collecting information from a 3rd party source ¬.¬ and putting the ips/names in by hand.
All of which we all ready knew, all of which wraps them up into still playing psyop games and using alts to grief / force their ideas on others.
All of which means they truly are the definition of Little Hitlers.
hobo kelly
Oct 30th, 2011
wellsum, i dun hears that thar be quite a bunch of them thar Motorcycle Gangs wut are all pissed off dun formin up in a big nasty groups of heavy metal thunder ridin’ out on them thar roads outta Waterhead lookin fer trouble tonight…
Azure Twine
Oct 30th, 2011
The Greenzone Users group is a place for discussion, free and open discussion. At any given time the discussion may be objectionable to some people. The mods try to maintain civility and order when we are on. I was not online at the time of the discussion.
I did receive the shirt which I felt was a lame attempt, not the first one, to attack our group. If people didn’t do these little outbursts then it would mean we are not doing our job.
The greenzone HUD is an information tool, it warns you if you are entering an area which uses one of the devices we have found to be possible privacy violators. You have the choice to stay or go. You have the choice to not wear the HUD at all.
We, as a group, have no control over who is a member. We do not do pre-qualifying nor is the group closed. The group is not responsible for the actions of any of it’s individual members.
As a group we promote privacy issues, which means it would be hypocritical for us to try and investigate any of our members. We do not condone copybotting, griefing or any other violations of the TOS/CS. Our HUD is completely complient as a product.
The t-shirt give-away was somebody’s desperate attempt to discredit and defame us, which failed. The memebrs of the Greenzone group have been there since before the redzone banning and it will take a lot more than a tacky pixel shirt to deter us from our mission to protect privacy of ALL SL residents.
Greenzone is not affiliated with any of the groups mentioned in this article or comments though we may have pverlapping members, like every other freaking group in SL!
potosi abonwood
Oct 30th, 2011
Well with the T-shirt all I can say is it really looks like somebody with an axe to grind. Maybe zFire moved back into SL finally, he probably hates the GZ folks more than anybody else. But as Azure has pointed out we are not a griefing group and the HUD isn’t a griefing tool. Have people joined the GZ group and then gone griefing wearing our tag? Yes they have, especially during the RedZone debacle, most of them even had mispelled names of regular members. These griefers were suddenly pointed out by the supporters of RZ over on their forums almost as soon as they appeared so it was pretty obvious who was doing it.
I’ve been in group chat when somebody will come up with an idea, like showing up at stores with signs and boycotting, and folks like Azure are right there telling them it’s a bad idea and to please not do it as a member of GZ. On issues like this I back up Azure completely, even though we don’t see eye to eye on everything I am a supporter of NOT using griefer tactics as are most others.
Jumpman Lane
Oct 30th, 2011
i unno, I’m jus’ a lane but i think its gonna take a lil bit more than a coupla unsubstantiated stories in the Herald to get me banned hehehehe.
prok’s just cheap and her land baronetcy was more like a ponzi scheme
last time i checked Kalel Venkman was sittin pretty fulla win! LL doesnt give credence to those who have been removed for denial of service attacks in second life. they damn sure dont give credence to cristiano midnight’s turdhole forums lmao.
i think the pink lady fingers need to try something else lmao
Darien Caldwell
Oct 30th, 2011
I have to say the irony of this article appearing on this website, is certainly not lost on me.
Obvious Schism
Oct 30th, 2011
Evidently someone, somewhere in this world, finds another source of irony every 5 minutes. I can’t wait until Mars is terraformed.
bubblesort
Oct 31st, 2011
First of all: Goodwins law. (sorry, couldn’t resist)
Second of all: Is this the game I want to play? Yes, it is. There is no other ‘game’ that speaks to my creative side and allows me to express myself like SL and OS does. I don’t play traditional games. I want a social environment where I can build stuff that people will use. SecondLife is my creative outlet.
I personally know many of the people mentioned above, and really, their drama doesn’t effect me much. Sometimes I get some trouble from these kinds of people, but that only seems to happen when I make a big mistake like letting my trust in my friends override my common sense. When things get too crazy I retreat to open sim for a while. I bounce between platforms more than most people realize. It’s important to be able to move between VW platforms in order to play the kind of game you want to play. Fucking with LL is not metagaming. Doing an end run around them and working in different platforms is the real metagame. My game is bigger than SL, bigger than LL, and bigger than these squabbling drama queens.
If Rod’s new product is any indication, I think LL’s metagame is bigger than SL as well, which I find somewhat disturbing. When LL starts abandoning VWs you know they don’t understand what they are working with.
I think it’s interesting to compare Pixeleen’s essay to Uri’s Interesting Times essay where he says that metagaming is the way to become a virtual world badass. Uri’s essay could be a manifesto for the zFire, the JLU, Woodbury, Jumpman, Stroker, Prok, the mafiosos, etc, but Pixeleen’s essay seems to deride this kind of behavior. Uri’s article is on page 10, here:
http://interestingtimesmagazine.com/archive/IT07.pdf
Here’s an excerpt:
“Sometimes you have to
let your inner monster out of its cage and let
it grab more than you have been offered. The
virtual world badass does it in the following way.
She says: my game is bigger than this!
Indeed, this is the question you have to ask
yourself when playing World of Warcraft or Second Life or EVE Online. How big is my game?
Does my game end at the gameplay and rules
dictated by the game owners (game gods)? Or
is my game big enough so that the game gods
are part of my gameplay? Can I manipulate them
to get what I want and need? Can I get them to
reverse course when they are being fools with
their platform? Can I get them to make their
game better? Can I get other players to help me
to get them to make the game better? Do I have
to sue them in a real world court of law to get
them to do my bidding? Then I will!”
Nelson Jenkins
Oct 31st, 2011
Gentlemen, gentlemen, please take a time out and check your buttocks for the butthurt plague. I have been informed that there is a huge outbreak in this area and people need to be aware of the risk of becoming massively butthurt.
uhm
Oct 31st, 2011
this is some funny shit
http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-08/Thumann/Whitepaper/bh-eu-08-thumann-WP.pdf
Bunjie
Oct 31st, 2011
@Nelson Jenkins Don’t lose yourself in teh drama eh?
http://youtu.be/6Q7Gcw-fqJg
Paul
Oct 31st, 2011
Tux said: “As the trio have finally realised they are doing more harm than good”
no, no that wasn’t it at all. I was at the seaside this weekend on my yacht. I had expected to see Tux there, along with the rest of my fellow highest tax bracket people. Mayhaps Tux was playing polo instead.
Metagaming to become virtual world bad asses? lmaoooooooo!!!! the level of rationalization around here is astounding.
Yep
Oct 31st, 2011
YAY Nelson is back!!!!!!
Go getem Tiger
Tux
Oct 31st, 2011
@ Paul
‘I was at the seaside this weekend on my yacht. I had expected to see Tux there, along with the rest of my fellow highest tax bracket people. Mayhaps Tux was playing polo instead.’
Obsessed much? Actually, yesterday we spent the day preparing the farm for samhain. Today, we went to the Natural History Museum. Then to the farm for a family get together. We left because the children began falling asleep. It is the perfect opportunity to meet distant members of the family.
I don’t have a yacht, I love my country and the land. Also I have terrible sea legs.
Whilst I have polo ponies, and a set of polo bicycles (proper ones, not mountain bikes), I don’t play (for obvious reasons). But I fail to see your point.
Senban Babii
Nov 1st, 2011
Hoorah! This is now the most popular article ever in the Herald, congratulations there Pix
Also, I have a suggestion for the After-Prok Party that I know we’re all looking forward to. Can someone make a small pile of ashes and put in a jolly dance animation? That way, at the party we’ll be able to dance on the ashes of her Second Life. Either that or make an amusing parody of Prok’s face for us to similarly dance on. Something like this perhaps?
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.ch/4/48/Prokofy_Neva_harassing_Emerald_users.jpg
I know the After-Prok Party is a little way off yet but we need to start planning now so we don’t rush around at the last minute.
Paul
Nov 1st, 2011
Yeah, congrats to Pixeleen. Now for his next trick, we need an article that describes how BOTH griefers and vigilantes are ‘little hitlers’ and outlines how both grievers and vigilantes rationalize their bad behavior behind grandiose bullshit like:
“We are using avatars to test new moralities, to test the ideas of old moralities, and to test the possibilities of worlds in which no such thing as morals exist.”
Tux
Nov 1st, 2011
@ Paul
Oh Paul don’t let Pix take all the credit. If not for you and the other musketeers this article would not have even made the list. So I would like to extend the congratulations to you and your cohorts. Keep up the good work.
‘grandiose bullshit’
Tell us you don’t believe RL morals are the same as their digital equivalent (or lack thereof). I highly doubt anyone who says their morals are the same.
Unless of course you have no divide between your RL and a game platform that is.
Paul
Nov 2nd, 2011
Oh Tux,
I believe it is wrong to be a jackass in any world, RL or SL. Griefing someone who does not want to be griefed just because you can get away with it. just because it makes you feel powerful because you had an impact on someone else, even if it is a negative one, that is being a jackass. It is behaving badly. It is being a bully. It is demonstrating a child-like inability to regulate your own behavior and emotions. You can mount all the ridiculous rationales you want about ‘exploring new moralities or no moralities at all’, and it doesn’t change that fact.
Tux
Nov 2nd, 2011
@ Paul
So if I think you are a ‘jackass’ in SL, you will change?
What if being a bully is the objective of the game?
marilyn murphy
Nov 2nd, 2011
on 1st arriving in sl, i was pretty lost. not sure i wanted to do it etc… i had heard about shopping and came to see that. pretty quickly i found myself doing things i had never dreamed of, and realized my freedom to do anything and ran amuck. at first i took things rather seriously then realized i was free to do as i pleased and so i did, largely ignoring others comments or opinions, because it is a chat room with dolls. i admired some people and despised others with equal abandon, marvelous villanous enemies and strange interesting lovers. i had fun. this belief that you become important or elevate your station from activity in an anonymous chat room is the strangest concept. for instance, i like senban. i like smart. i have no clue who she is. so what difference does it make in her life or mine? so some anonymous person from somewhere writes something i dont like? does that make any difference to anyone anywhere? all this talk of who is harrassing who and why and everyone is anonymous is sorta sad. grats to pix for the huge response.
the notion that what happens in sl is important is not healthy.
AM Oderngrl
Nov 2nd, 2011
@Paul Please can you refer to Pixeleen as she? An early lesson in SL etiquette is to address avatars as they present themselves. Historically, only people being intentionally rude in SL-related venues point out RL identity or google bomb others with their RL typist name and gender. It is only polite to refer to Prokofy as he, Immy as she, and so forth.
IntLibber
Nov 2nd, 2011
Oderngrl,
While normally i agree with this sentiment, in the case of Prokofy, who has made a fetish of harassing other peoples avatar gender choices while herself playing a male in SL while being a female supremacist in RL, I refer to Prokofy as a she in all cases in honor of her being the biggest cunt in SL.
Anonymous
Nov 2nd, 2011
Oh Question is if my name should be in this list as well LOL.
Sometimes Someone has to police something, I dont agree with everyones Methods, things like Red Zone, CDS need to be removed from the grid by Linden Lab.
Although People Like Bizarre Obscure, who runs LandOFNoR.com as a GM think’s its okay to throw around random accustations towards my SL Avatar, Talk behind my back, and the owner of NoR RP regions think they have the right to go above the Second Life TOS/CS and monitor Private IM’s without consent just because one person says so.
Their Simulators got attacked by some random Lulz griefers after I made a post on their forums to be exact maybe two weeks after, which leave only two options.
1. Their own members who hated me wanted me banned from 13 sims so much did it.
2. They allowed google crawler to search the search engines, without my express consent and disclose information some random troll groups caused trouble.
3. Either way I have logs, and snapshots of Bizarre Obscure, and the owner of NOR Luxa Budan Over Stepping their Jurisdiction as a RP Estate in SL, does this give them the right to deal with issues not related to such.
Futhur more shortly after this, my name was sent out being caleld a content thief inside of a group called (Gorean Fashion Syndicate) and they were all friends of friends, but never provided evidence, and they asked me to prove I am not the griefer who griefed, or Copy what they say came from XanXan Jervil, and Truth Hawks, which is obvious a lie as I spend like maybe around $200 USD + in SL a month it isn’t like I cant afford $250 L$ to go buy a truth hawks hair.
So when it comes down to Trolling, and Lulz Griefing people in SL are such idiots including XanXan, who thinks she can get away with spreading these rumors without providing any actual proof.\
When in reality Xan, and Apolonia Anatine, Apolonia Anatine being the one who sent the false notice in Gorean Fashion Syndicate the owner of that group.
Let me just say You all will get what is deserving sooner or later, You mite create content, but you two loosers are just a little dirt spot on the floor out of an entire grid, and You and your friends will pay for your false accusations and rumors soon, You think you can help Griefers against people in SL and get away with it WRONG! JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED!
Oh and I would say you have maybe a week if your lucky before shit starts to get really bad for you both (;, now remember I did nothing to any of you, but you drew first blood, now we are going to fight back since you think its funny to spread accusations throught SL about me and others.
Oh, MAC Bans I am not even worried, I dont care about MAC/IP Bans I spoof them anyways each time I login to sl from a different account LL Doesnt know as mine it changes (; so dont even get me started lol.
http://www.nigrapedia.com/MAC_Ban
http://pastebin.com/G0ss5m3S If you were not so stupid u would know what a MAC Ban is LOL and that every griefer viewer comes with a bypass, as well as the program I posted above will get ya right back in clean hands free.
*** DRAMA Yes I know Drama Everywhere, but hey I didn’t ask for it.***
Anonymous
Nov 2nd, 2011
As far as Jumpman Lane, Kalel Venkman’s Justice League Unlimited vigilantes, or Prokofy Neva , I don’t consider them trolls, but then again I dont know thems so well.
Simply put, You dont Fuck with me, I wont fuck with you in SL, Dont Cross me, Dont Piss me, I will go after you and your friends, and Lulz Grief the Fuck out of you and troll you and ur furry little friends, and crossing me can be a number of different ways.
For the most part people dont haves a problems with mehs but Some people just cross the line way too much.
Oh and Profky <3 I hear your name so much lol.
Senban Babii
Nov 2nd, 2011
@AM Oderngrl
“It is only polite to refer to Prokofy as he, Immy as she, and so forth.”
I’m as guilty as Paul of this I’m afraid. Usually I do exactly what you’ve just said but with Prok I often find myself slipping. I think it’s in part due to “Prok” not being an avatar per se in my experience and I only experience “Prok” as words rather than anything with visual clues. I do still feel bad about it when I slip though, even if it is Prok we’re talking about and even if Prok himself chooses to attack others by fishing to find out what they have in their underwear because he thinks he can then use it as a weapon against them.
Being Prok: Encapsulating both crime and punishment in one state of being.
Speaking of which, Prok is still billing issued off the grid, right? Is there some kind of grace period you get given in which to sort this out? Does anyone know? Only I need to mark my calendar
Bunjie
Nov 2nd, 2011
I ain’t playing games and neither should Linden Lab, Prokofy has to go so please post your reasons why you think shes over stepped, also you should check out her latest blog entry it proves a lot of why we don’t need to be dealing with this anymore just so Linden Lab can get a few 100usd from her bank.
My reasons are: her baiting others into breaking the TOS, by using an (open ended) business model that seeks to instigate residents with distributive behavior into visiting her or normal residents into “checking out” her land so she can whip up drama around her to solicit land sales to younger in-world aged residents who don’t fully understand who she is and what’s shes doing, but they default to thinking she must be good as shes “cheap” and fighting the “bad guys” which most residents would support if at all she was not causing it.
And her deliberate overuse of Linden Labs support services, that degrade the service for other residents who have legitimate complaints and legitimate business models that don’t attack other residents for “serps”.
https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4eb12fe3ad961f000100579d