The Alphaville Herald

186 Responses to “Second Life Twitter War Goes Beyond Nasty”

1. 

   Reader
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   “Kalolz, shut the fuck up you pedophilic retard.”

   Thanks for proving my point.

   And remember, chew thoroughly before swallowing momma cass
2. 

   paul
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   Intlibber, how is it possible to pack so much nonsense into a single eight word sentence?

   “Kalolz”: you accuse him of being someone he is not to smear him

   “shut the fuck up”: you scream at him using an expletive

   “you”: oooOOooo an actual word!

   “pedohilic”: an uncalled for low blow and possibly libelous

   “retard”: intolerant and juvenile.

   see? It is just like Bad Girls Club! I can picture you shrieking this incoherently in a club, all shit faced, with your mascara running down your face, pointing with your finger at your enemies.

   If virtual worlds are the new frontier of reality, then we are in a shit load of trouble!
3. 

   paul
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   JD, I agree with you about Prok. Despite her long winded-ness and champion ability to rant and rant some more, she actually does often make some sense and doesn’t hide like some of these other old timers… and, she seem to really enjoy the positive things about SL, and I be she has never ‘griefed’ anyone in her life. The people that grief her sims and harass her in RL are nothing but school yard bullies.
4. 

   hobo kelly
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   ok Mischief Makers, since everyone else is deflecting and diverting with this Jumpy saga which was manufactured to take the heat off of Kalel Venkman and Green Lantern and the JLU’s huge juvenile stalking case that was turned over to Law Enforcement, and since the local “switch” convention has apparently broken up with the arrival of Pete and Repeat, that means it must be time for the FRIDAY CARTOON. Oh Mischief Makers! This one is short and sweet. Starring: Tizzers Foxchase as “Tizzers” and Prokofy Neva as “Swamp Donkey”… now… off to Ravenglass we go!

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gPbpd0a8bw
5. 

   IntLibber
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   Ok now that we’ve identified “Reader” as Kalel, we see that Paul must be Prok, because only a Prok sock puppet would compliment her like that and claim that she’s “never griefed anyone in her life”. Everybody knows that Prok is the biggest troll in SL.
6. 

   Robble Rubble
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   One time I was driving down a linden road and prok rezzed a physical prim and drug it across the road to push me off so I would land in one of her parcels and she could eject me. That’s a total griefer move.
7. 

   Reader
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   JD, you realize now that IntLibber is going to acuse you of being Prok – right? LOL
8. 

   Reader
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   Robble, that website linked to your handle has been “coming soon” for how long?

   Go do something.
9. 

   James Doe
   

   Oct 21st, 2011
   

   So when someone is opinionated and writes a lot of blogs about different things this makes them a griefer? Is that what it comes down too? Why even be near the person if you don’t like them? To instigate?
   We all do not have to agree with the opinions that prokofy writes. You don’t have to even read them. I can read prokofy’s blogs and posts and go yea ok that is a huge stretch to get to that point. But I can also see some of her writing making sense. Just like the Herald here they write things for sensationalism why? Could it be to get reader ship and to get people to talk about things? Just like any news media or reporter to get people to click to them and read and comment. I mean some people like fox news others don’t. Its nothing different.
   I have never been harassed by prokofy. I have never been victim of the JLU stalking methods or even from Joshua’s forum harassment. I was never a victim of the old Woodbury and wrong hands griefing either. I will say what the old Woodbury people did kind of ruined it for the students who didn’t grief. How does a school get past that reputation? I don’t blame the school but the individuals who did it. I feel they do deserve a second chance or even a 3rd chance to come into secondlife as long as they do not go back to their old ways.
   If you get banned from SL and you feel it was unjustified you can contact the labs by phone and supply them with information. I always hear people going I never got anywhere but then I hear others who go oh it was a peace of cake all I need to do was this or that. So why not give it a shot then. I see these “banned” residents talking how they just change their machines mac id and then make a new account and come in. To me if you get caught doing this it’s your own fault. Better to try to take the correct path before the sneaky path. Taking the sneaky path just makes you look even guiltier of your supposed crimes.

   Oh yes I am sure I will be prokofy now too. It’s a typical argument when someone disagrees with you say and actually can see the logic of your argument but can’t accept it they will go well you must be the person I don’t like. And it’s easy to say its Prokofy because no one likes Prokofy.
   But since I have never dealt with Prokofy personally I only read what he posts. Heck I even laugh at some of the posts. But I don’t think prokofy is as crazy as people say. From Prokofy’s bio they been around a lot longer than some of these people complaining he has seen a lot and done a lot.
   I also read other blogs and forums; I have been in SL for a long time as well seen a lot of the drama queens that are still around and still doing the same pathetic BS they been doing for years.

   JD
10. 

    paul
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    yep that is right Intlibber, I am Prok. boy you are so perceptive!! no wonder you have been so successful in your SL businesses.
11. 

    Paul
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @ Robble Rubble,
    Let me get the story straight, just so I understand. You were going down a linden road completely randomly, minding your own business, and it just randomly happened to be next to a parcel owned by prokofy neva, when, unprovoked, this total stranger named prokofy neva swoops out nowhere, pushes you onto her property, and ejects you. You have no idea why she would be motivated to do that to you, as you have never had any dealings with her ever in your second life. Just a random bolt of lightning griefing out of the blue, when randomly, out of the entire second life grid, you happened to be on a linden road next to a parcel she owns. That’s your story?

    It is interesting, because like JD says, I have never had any experience like that in SL… never been griefed or trolled by Prok, never even heard of jumpman, the JLU, the wrong hands, or woodbury before I started reading the Herald. So I wonder why you have had this kind of problem when myself, and most other residents, do not have this kind of problem. I had heard of Strokerz, though. I remember as a relative noob, I visited his sim and bought his bed for a high price, but soon recognized that there were several other newer builders that were making much better animations and using much better menus for a much more reasonable cost.

    Actually, now that I think about it, maybe I have witnessed griefing. I remember being in this one public sim, and I was talking with a couple of people, and this group of avatars dressed as robots with wheels, clown faces, and other random stuff kept swarming around us. It was kind of distracting, so we went to my skybox to continue our conversation. Another time I was at some club, and suddenly there was like an infinite number of particle emission and some obnoxious sounds, so I logged out and made my self a sandwich and watched a basketball game instead. Are those examples of griefing?
12. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @hobo kelly
    “Starring: Tizzers Foxchase as “Tizzers” and Prokofy Neva as “Swamp Donkey”… now… off to Ravenglass we go!”

    I liked the bit where Tizzers.

    @paul
    “and I be she has never ‘griefed’ anyone in her life.”

    Well the JLU list her as a griefer, although I place no trust in their opinions naturally. But Swamp Donkey metagriefs, through her blog and various forums. Well, the forums she’s not yet been banned from for, you know, griefing.

    Just because someone doesn’t grief inworld, doesn’t mean they’re not a griefer. The Thing From Another World is most definitely a metagriefer.
13. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @Senban,

    So by your definition since Prokofy writes about people and other things in her blogs as well as other forums and platforms make him a griefer. Then the same people who comment and call him names such as “Prokofy Neva as “Swamp Donkey” are also to be considered as griefers.
    When you come down to the point anyone who has an opposing comment to someone else can be considered a griefer right, especially when they try to defend their point of view.
    JD
14. 

    fararden
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    These people in SL who are prone to drama only have as much power as you give them. The more you talk about these people, the more infamous they become. If you ingored these people, stopped reading their posts or blogs, and stopped writing articles about them they would’t have much power. There is no reason you have to listen to what they say, that is what a mute or ignore button is for. Go ahead keep talking about them, you are only adding to their power.
15. 

    Paul
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @Senban
    Yes..what James Doe said. I only ever read the SLU forum for a little while during the JLU witchhunt…I went there from here, and then got bored pretty quick. It seemed to me that prokofy kept saying the same thing over and over again: every time someone brought up another example of why the JLU should be lynched, she kept saying.. “if there is a crime, call the police, otherwise, this is all hearsay”. So I am not sure why she was banned, when the people she was responding too kept repeating the same three circumstantial and barely credible facts over and over again, and she just kept responding that the emperor had no clothes. I didn’t understand why the same few anti-JLU people who kept shrieking the same libelous, circumstantial, and admittedly fraudulent ‘facts’ weren’t banned as well, as they were doing the same kind of ‘trolling’ that Prok was. Repeating the same three stupid rumors endlessly does make them anymore true. and also, did Tux get banned after he publicly promised to ‘entertain’ Prok in her own sim?

    Besides having some extreme views (Mesh is the downfall of free society?!?), being extremely long winded and a bit obsessive, and being rather eccentric, I am not sure what Prok does us wrong except she doesn’t toe the party line for the “in crowd” of old timers. And if having kooky views, being overly verbose in online forums, and having eccentric habits is a ‘crime’ in the SL community, aren’t we ALL guilty? have you looked in the mirror lately?

    I wonder about these things. I wonder why it is a capital crime for the JLU to maintain a dossier speculating on the RL identity of SL residents, but it is ok for Tux and his friends to celebrate interfering with residents who want to enjoy the stupid video game, or that is ok for the Herald to out Jumpman, or it is ok for Intlibber to advocate ‘pranking’ Kalel in RL.

    And no, dipshits, I am not Kalel or Prok.
16. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @James Doe

    Well it’s an interesting point James.

    Firstly, calling someone names such as Swamp Donkey at worst could be described as banter. The online world is full of that kind of thing and I humbly submit that anyone who has trouble dealing with harmless banter needs to grow a thicker skin. Now, take Prok. Prok uses some incredibly foul language and insults which frankly, do her no favours. She is amazingly abusive to people, past the point of banter. Just now I was reading some old posts on SLU and frankly, it makes me wonder whether she kisses her kids with that mouth.

    Now, Prok doesn’t defend her point of view whatsoever, that would imply she listens to other points of view, provides logical arguments and, you know, debates. Prok does not. Prok screams and rants and regards anyone who doesn’t agree with her own points as a technocommunist etc etc. I myself have tried to engage her in legitimate debate on several occasions now and all she has done is froth at the mouth and spit venom at me. That’s a matter of public record. She’s currently attacking me right on Rodvik’s profile! The truth is she refuses to engage with anyone unless they are telling her what she already believes to be true.

    Prok doesn’t grief in the sense of going inworld and rezzing whatever. She instead plays around the edges, attacking anyone and every thing she can find to rant at. Why is that? You could argue that it is about fighting back but I’d disagree. Prok’s reputation goes back years, even before SL. I mean look here.

    http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Prokofy_Neva

    Now, consider what Wagner James Au wrote in his book, page 252.

    “FIC – “Feted Inner Core,” a title coined by longtime resident conspiracy theorist Prokofy Neva (profiled in my blog as “the Noam Chomsky of Second Life”) to describe a supposed collusion between elite Residents, Linden Lab, and metaverse developers at the expense of casual and inexperienced new users.”

    Still with me? Okay now look at my recent blog post. Read the post itself if you want but look at the quote from Siegel, that’s the key part.

    http://whenitchanged.blogspot.com/2011/10/chicken-journalism.html

    ‘And so they end up merely repeating their right to be who they want to be, an incessant declaration of self that often takes the form of mockery or rage directed against privileged elites perceived to be standing in the majority’s way.” – Siegel, “Against The Machine”.’

    See how it applies? Prok has spent years literally raging against anyone and anything that she perceives to be part of this conspiracy and she’s been banned fro forums and blogs, official and independent for her screaming rants because it’s all about her opinions and drowning out any form of reasoned debate. Just look at how many people muted her on the recent SLU/JLU mega threads as it was the only way to drown her out to read the actual content. Look at this example of a typical discussion taken from this link.

    http://www.jimjesus.com/2009/06/prokofy-neva-arguably-biggest-idiot-on.html

    You:I disagree with X

    Prok: Are you stupid? X is clearly true. Perhaps you should get your head out of your ass before everything goes to hell because of fascists like yourself!

    You: No need to get insulting, I just don’t think you are right on X because of reasons A,B, and C

    Prok: I think I have had enough of your defence of X which is Stalinist in nature. Go back to your commie book clubs and get off my blog, BANNED!

    Sadly, this has been precisely my experience of Prok and it seems the experience of many before me.

    So no, I’m sorry but I disagree. Prok is a metagriefer and has absolutely no right to claim any sort of moral high ground.

    tl;dr

    MUTE PROK
17. 

    Paul
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    Senban, So mute her then and be done with it. Words on a blog don’t hurt. When people mess up your enjoyment of a video game you are paying money to play, or that you are relying on for your income… THAT is grieving.
18. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @Paul
    “So mute her then and be done with it.”

    Now think about what you’re saying here. In effect you’re saying that her opinions, arguments and attacks should go unchallenged? If she posts somewhere designed for debate and discussion, then she has to expect debate and discussion. History shows that she does not.

    And words on a blog do hurt a person’s reputation if they go unchallenged. That’s why we have rules covering defamation and so on.

    “When people mess up your enjoyment of a video game you are paying money to play, or that you are relying on for your income… THAT is grieving.”

    I actually wrote a long reply to something you posted a few days ago and it got lost when the Herald went squirly. Thankfully I’d kept a copy so I’m planning to address this on my blog. Suffice to say I believe you’re wrong but I’ll enjoy debating the point with you or anyone else. I’ll send you the link once I’m done
19. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @Senban Babi

    Ok I followed you and your posts. I do get your point of view
    As an Example would some one like Joshua who has posted very similar to Prokofy for years yelling arguing in forums telling people to shut up, go away for just as many years as Prokofy has would he be a meta griefer as well?
    I don’t think I need to post links to all his posts from old SL forums up to the present to show you do I? I am just using him as an example since he is one of the other more vocal people from sls past. I am sure I can find other people as examples. I have nothing against Joshua or Prokofy. Just want to know if your logic would be the same for someone like him.
    Now Prokofy has a right to write and say what they want on a blog. It’s a blog you don’t have to read it. Prokofy can ban anyone from posting as well just as the Herald here can as well since it’s their blog it’s not owned by the people. If I don’t want to hear someone’s rant in sl I mute them and walk away. I do the same in my real life if I don’t want to listen I hang up the phone. People in second life don’t want to use the mute tool because its human nature to want to know what the person is saying, are they taking about me behind my back. What are they saying about me? It’s very similar to people’s high school lives and real lives what are the Jones doing. Did you hear what that person said about you? These things will never change all you can do is either ignore it or jump into it and play along.
    I read how you asked lindens new CEO to send Prokofy a Pony Bear thing. Is that griefing on your part to get someone to send him something they may not want?
    I don’t know I sure someone can view it as such.
    Griefing is subjective to the person. Some people laugh at the prim gentiles being spammed and don’t see it as griefing. Other people will see it as actual griefing.

    My view on griefing is when someone brings down a sim on purpose.
    Forum griefing is a different story; I have the option of walking away or placing that person on ignore or skip their comments then I don’t need to be bothered by them. I would tend to scroll past Prokofy’s gazillion posts on forums and wait for them to write it in their blog. I think he gets a bit flustered in the forums. It’s why I also seldom post in the forums or blogs. I take to long to post stuff. As you can tell I write pages of text. I try to choose my words carefully.
    JD
20. 

    Paul
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @ Senban. I am wrong when I say that griefing is when someone intentional disrupts another person’s enjoyment of a video game or their second life business just to get “lulz”??? ok, I will await explanation.

    I have two long posts still “awaiting moderation” on this thread. Not sure what that is about.

    As to you your other point, if you all portray proky as this lunatic shrieking, then just don’t entertain it. People say all sorts of things. Orca called me an “emotional rapist”, intlibber told me “Fuck You” but who cares? I choose to participate here, and nothing they say will actually hurt me. You chose to go onto the blog of someone you regard as a lunatic. /me shrugs
21. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    Some good questions there James, I’ll address a couple if I can.

    “As an Example would some one like Joshua who has posted very similar to Prokofy for years yelling arguing in forums telling people to shut up, go away for just as many years as Prokofy has would he be a meta griefer as well?”

    Now I’m assuming here that you mean Joshua Nightshade? He’s the only Joshua I’m aware of. Now okay, this *may* be a fair observation/question but I’m not in a position to have an opinion. I’m a very recent convert to SLU and apart from his posts there, I’d literally never heard of him before. So I hope you understand why I can’t comment on that, it wouldn’t be right.

    “Now Prokofy has a right to write and say what they want on a blog. It’s a blog you don’t have to read it. Prokofy can ban anyone from posting as well just as the Herald here can as well since it’s their blog it’s not owned by the people.”

    Completely agreed. However – you knew there’d be a however, right? However, a blog is considered a two-way process. It’s very nature invites comment unless comments are specifically disabled. If comments are enabled, it implies that opinions are sought. Opinions, not merely confirmation of what you’ve just written. As such, if Prok posts a blog, she is inviting comment. That’s how it works. If she doesn’t invite comment, she should disable comments. When people comment, rather than engage with the process, she attacks them with a rant. She has no desire to hear the opinions of anyone who does not confirm her own position and belief. That’s my observation.

    “I read how you asked lindens new CEO to send Prokofy a Pony Bear thing. Is that griefing on your part to get someone to send him something they may not want?”

    Prok openly and very specifically asked Rodvik on his profile for a Linden pwny, noting that it was her rezday. Later on her blog she was crying about the fact she hadn’t received one. I told her I’d ask Rodvik for one on her behalf and did so. I honestly don’t know whether she’s now been given one or not. Probably not given how she now considers them a symbol of the FIC, The Wrong Hands, Occupy Wall Street, the alien lizard people and that bloke what looked at her a bit funny last Tuesday. As you can read here.

    http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2011/10/the-wrong-hands.html

    Incidentally I find it amusing that Prok attacks Woodbury, TWH, TPH and so on for using Soviet imagery and yet she uses it on her own blog profile. Secret supporter, the rants are a cover if you ask me

    http://profile.typepad.com/3dblogger

    Now go here and scroll down the discussion of Soviet propaganda posters and what do you see?

    http://www.ask.com/wiki/Soviet_propaganda_during_World_War_II

    “Day after day, life becomes even happier”.

    For someone who allegedly hates communism, why would she use that image?
22. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @Paul

    There’s not an online game in the world where those actions do not occur. Take it from WoW players, do they suddenly stop paying-to-play because of some trolls? Does their enjoyment suddenly come to a screeching halt because of a silly troll or two?

    No. They continue to play and work around/ignore the trolls if the game is good enough to began with and stick with the game. It is good to have thick skin!

    To rely on a virtual world/game to supply your RL needs however, is not what I would consider the best in mind, especially when you cannot control what is going on around you. It’s nice to have extra cash on the side, but it’s not always guaranteed since there is no true employment!
23. 

    IntLibber
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    The only reason i would think that Paul isnt Prok is that he doesnt post a wall of text with every comment. So, Paul, you are demoted from Prok to merely a Prok fanboi.
24. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @Senban Babii,

    Just because a person writes a blog doesn’t mean they have to accept comments or want them. In any of these blogs the owners can turn off comments. Writing a blog for some people is like writing a online journal.
    Newspaper allow comments to be made, but they also screen the letters to the editors. They don’t print every letter to the editor. If I don’t like what a newspaper is saying i have the right to not purchase it or support them.
    Every time you respond to Prokofy or you talk about them you are supporting them in a weird way.
    I have not been griefed by Woodbury people or W-hats or wrong hands. I know people that had been. I do believe some of them have changed but others are still out to ruin the reputation of others. Why bother with Prokofy or the JLU or others if you don’t believe anything they do? Whats the point. Linden Labs isn’t going to do anything especially when the people complaining about them are the people who keep coming back to sl after having been banned. I don’t care if the felt it was a justified ban or not you were kicked out for a reason. What about if you get kicked out of a club or fired from a job would you try to sneak back in? Would these places have the right to kick you out again? In my mind you sneak back in you should get booted again. If you want to come back Lindens should have a process for it. And then your put on a probation if you get ARd the lab must research it more so its just not a random kick. If you are caught griefing as you did in the past you are to be kicked out. Then if you sneak back in Labs has every right to ban your alt as many times as they wish if found out.
    If they want to have a reformed SL life by coming back in the sneaky way. Then do it and don’t harrass or grief people. Then ignore people like the JLU and Prokofy. Let them talk about you if its all false why should it matter. Would they want Kalel or Prokofy as a friend? You can enjoy your SL with out even dealing with Prokofy or the JLU but these people tend to go and decide to walk by them or seek them out. Why what is their to gain 62,876 people currently online in sl. I am sure their are alot moreto do and talk to other than JLU or Prokofy no?
    I really don’t care what Woodbury or these other groups wear they could all wear clown costumes, if they grief they are griefers in my book.
    I also never said i believe everything Prokofy writes, I have laughed many times as you all have. But there are times she has hit certain points that are correct, from what i have seen and heard about some of the people she talks about.
    JD
25. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 21st, 2011
    

    @James Doe
    “You can enjoy your SL with out even dealing with Prokofy or the JLU”

    Ah but therein lies the problem wouldn’t you say?

    I’ve never met Prok yet she chooses to attack me purely for who I associate with.

    I’ve never met the JLU yet they choose to bring me into their world. Not even just directly but also indirectly, by creating or at the very least accessing databases of resident data for the purpose of controlling who can access SL and who can’t.

    See the problem? I can choose to ignore them but they have chosen not to ignore me. Prok defames me right on Rodvik’s profile by calling me a criminal. The JLU list me in their wiki, simply for being outspoken about their methods. I’d like nothing better than to ignore both these parties but sadly, they don’t choose to ignore me. They choose to intrude into *my* life whether I want them in it or not.

    So what should I do? Should I simply never voice dissent or a contrary opinion for fear of coming onto the radars of Prok or the JLU? Hell no! Because that’s what these bullies want, especially the JLU. They want to intimidate their way to the top of the tree so that their ideology rules.

    “Newspaper allow comments to be made, but they also screen the letters to the editors. They don’t print every letter to the editor.”

    Correct but a blog is not a newspaper and Prok is not a journalist. In fact that was one of the subjects I tried to engage her on but she chose to ignore it.

    https://my.secondlife.com/prokofy.neva/posts/4e96afc357d9730001003200

    One of the fundamental functions of a blog is to post and then invite comments.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog

    “Although not a must, but most good quality blogs are interactive, allowing visitors to leave comments and even message each other via widgets on the blogs and it is this interactivity that distinguishes them from other static websites.”

    In a newspaper, while letters to the editor might be published, they are published by the newspaper itself. In a blog, the reader publishes their own commentary. It’s a pretty fundamental difference. But as noted, some blogs choose to disable comments.
26. 

    Robble Rubble
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @ Reader

    No.
27. 

    Tux
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @ Reader

    Which website are you referring to?
28. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @Senban

    I have seen this Prok. She is *one* of most annoying, nagging creatures I have come across yet.

    @JD

    It’s quiet hard to ignore these types of -special cases- when they have influence on who may or may not use SL. Especially JLU trash.
29. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @Senban

    I don’t know who you associate with and honestly i don’t care. If your not disrupting my enjoyment of secondlife I have no reason to care. Now i will be honest here lets say your associating with the same people who have been kicked and banned from secondlife and come back after they change their computers Mac address and their IP address. Then yes you unfortunitely are going to be suspect of being involved with them. This happens in real life too you do realise this. If you happen to be friends with a bunch of drug dealers you would be suspect too of being a dealer or involved. Am i saying that Prokofy or JLU are like police no. But she has her opinion based from her experience of the past dealing with griefers or people she claimed to be griefers. So you associate with the people she feels are griefers. Its hard for these ex griefers to prove themselves that they aren’t anymore. best way for them to prove it is just go about their sl lives and avoid the JLU and Prokofy. But they want to continue to call her crazy or a nut job and attack her. So the cycle will never end. How many other people in second life are not on the JLU’s hit list or Prokofy’s. You all can go about your sl lives and prove to JLU and Prokofy you aren’t griefers by just doing what you do to have fun.
    How many other people in SL act like the JLU or Prokofy alot. Look at any of the sl forums of past or any of the others around.

    Now Senban lets say I decide to write a blog on how much i don’t like you. your just the biggest villan of all. I have never meet you in sl or rl. But i write a huge post and lock the Blog so no comments. What would you do? Would you write on your Blog the about how wrong i am and that i am a total jerk. What is our end result your not even really defaming me your defaming my sl avatar. You have no connection to who i really am and i don’t you. I am not sure legally what defaming of a Second Life Avatar can really lead too. My Avatar name isn’t a legal pseudonym.
    So basically we would be just trashing each others Second Life names. In a spitting contest till one of us gets bored and moves on. So i get bored and stop and you get to claim victory in a blog war. Isn’t it similar to this twitter war with Jumpman? What do you really win?

    Of course this is all up to you and the others, think about it. You all stop responding or posting about them. They will move on to someone else. Internet justice achieves nothing especially when its a second life avatar name.

    JLU have a wiki and a group chat of the same things that forums do. Look at forums they talk exactly like the JLU does.
    I don’t think the JLU controls who can be in sl and who can’t. Again If people feel they were banned from SL for the wrong reasons they should be talking to the lab. Not coming back in a deceptive way. At that point you have made your self look twice as bad. I think the Lab if spoken too and given information will give people 2nd chances especially if you didn’t do anything wrong.
    JD
30. 

    Bunjie
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @James Doe it’s nice to have thick skin? therein lies the problem and one of the primary reasons she was not chosen as a Linden, as such people that Linden Lab hire require “thick skins” to get by inSL as the majority of SL is social drama.

    But why shes still welcome and appears to have some pull with Linden Lab is beyond comprehension for how a corp should act when someones destroying their business on top of the fuck ups they all ready made, but no doubt she socially destroys it and inflicts mental abuse on everyone taking part in the experience.

    And I’m no expert but I’m pretty sure Judging by what trivial suits get going that a good lawyer could put together some kind of class action or some kind of collectivist suit that she for a period of years has caused irreparable mental harm and Linden Lab has allowed their service to be used as a podium to inflict that damage. And they have not removed her from the core experience so her voice fetters itself away on other issues that no one cares about and is not focused on causing them mental anguish.

    So even if you avoided Prokofy, Kalel and Joshua you do get dragged into their situations as some of these people surround themselves with every minor issue that affects Second Life in order to fetter themselves onto other peoples minds, hence why Josh flooded the JLU privacy thread on SLU with his holiday photos when his primary thread for that was “lacking feedback” as while he was off being a prick we we’re trying to resolve a long standing issue, but to him that was unacceptable to respect and so he wanted the drama and fed himself into it near the end of his trip, fabricating and indulging into some he knew hated him so he could play her more to leverage all eyes on him.

    n. A person who is typically/always socially imperceptive and ‘latches on’ to a group of people/issue. this person is along for a ride and is impossible to lose.

    Prokofy and Joshua surely are social parasites of some sense, leaching creditability off every issue and nit picking social group that is perusing their own ideas, Josh typically and historically having left SL but sitting himself above everyone else at SLU, as some kind of prince no one could challenge for fear of him invoking the argument that someone disagreeing with him was anti-gay or some such thing that turned the forum against that individual and runs them off the board.

    Prokofy, Kalel and Joshua have neither a thick skin or the capacity to grow one from past experiences, they over react to pretty much everything anyone does to them, the definition of insanity is to do something over and over again expecting something to change? If it only has 2 possible outcomes and one that’s highly destructive to them and the people around them and is more than likely to occur they tend to feed into it more than an appropriate response but then you should know all this as like you said it’s documented in everything they interject themselves into.

    So is it right to define her as insane? she clearly has issues that go beyond being called a troll, I have some experience with mental illness but not through my own mind but via a close 3rd party but I don’t think feeding her as the crazy cat lady is fair if she really is ill it’s not something an adult should want to pursue as punishment for what shes done but I don’t hold it lightly she has caused some real pain, that said she should have retired from the Internet long before 56k dial up.

    A lot of people see prokofy as a troll but subjectively that’s also a matter of opinion and pretty much a cop out on what she really is, and I never like to call her one because I don’t want to satisfy or indulge in what ever internal mechanisms she has going that adds to her delusions other than occasionally trying to reason with her in my own way but I can no longer do that as I’m banned from commenting on her blog and I respect that and don’t ban evade, though she won’t take my word for it and will indulge in some anti-brit slurs or “push back” without allowing me to defend myself but I typically don’t want to as it will just feed her in the wrong direction, but I like others don’t want to be seen as weak for not doing so. But something is fucked up with her like Kalel and other individuals that seek to use SL as an outlet or some form of cloak that gives them credence and credibility to their voice and or actions that is typically disruptive and destructive to the whole community.

    But I agree that Prokofy does have some good points in some situations, but the majority of her arguments are over shadowed by her attitude, perspective on situations and her “brand” that shes built around her as “pushing back” and as always her being a complete cunt.

    A typical I want to rent from Prokofy one way conversation would only require a welcome before your Judged, Branded and banished from her land, so in a way she single handily puts people off renting from a 3rd party? and pushes them to Linden Lab? not sure how she’d feel about that considering she thinks shes always “doing right” and everyone else is “doing wrong”.

    Renter: Hello, Prokofy: “Fuck You”
    Renter:Hi There! Prokofy:”Fuck YOU”
    Renter:I paid your box 4k! Prokofy:”Fuck YOU”
    Renter: I like pony’s Prokofy: “FUCK YOU”
31. 

    Bunjie
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    I think after watching SLU long before the JLU thing and judging by how I understand SLU and SL works socially, one of the major problems with Second Life is that Linden Lab has failed to remove the social incentive for causing drama, we had the bot and camping issues that used to drive traffic and sales via search.

    Now it’s time to fix and re-balance the social weights so the financial incentive to causing mayhem and verbally assaulting other residents through blogging campaigns either by fabrication or by direct pursuit of drama to get traffic and sales is balanced with the direct fall out that should occur if people ran their in-world business and themselves like real world company’s and associations do with respect for their customers. The real world is a mess but such systems that regulate if ran correctly can provide benefits and help people avoid the worst of SL or at least grant incentive’s to them so they avoid and don’t feed such people and businesses regardless of what they sell that is a “must have” item.

    I would like to see a form of in-world business/people ranking that’s not exploitable and can’t be easily played and runs only by Linden Lab granting a company a contract to investigate abuse reports, so you outsource and their investigators have no sway in the outcome of awarding and demoting “people and business” that under perform and abuse their customers, and the community as a whole, via a new robust and always investigated abuse report system that anchors where abuse has occurred to what sort of demotion socially/search etc someones business deserves.
32. 

    Bunjie
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4ea22f431e15620001003d32
33. 

    Gundel Gaukelei
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @Paul
    So I wonder why you have had this kind of problem when myself, and most other residents, do not have this kind of problem.

    This also works the other way around and makes Prok look like a walking honeypot.
34. 

    joy
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @ Bunjie

    Did you ever think what kind of big business theres behind all the drama?
    The more people get sad/hurt the more they go shopping to feel better = big money income for the lab. plus the more drama becomes big, the more people still stuck inworld looking at it, tryng to take revenge and shit and while they stuck there…boom! they buy L$ ofc.
    (talking about 90% of sl ppl ..they ill and full of issues rl,so they live there into the tricky virtual world ..it is their only escape and when they get sad, they go shopping instead to log in rl , wich is often even more sad than sl).

    There ya go, why the lab keeps the drama inworld? money and power.
    To not mention how much fun can be for them to keep playng role of “the gods” manipulating tricking and playng on alts (oh yes they do!!!)

    sl is such a sad place. its far away from the amazing virtual world it was back in the old times, they ruined it.
    it is just a big sad illusion messing up ppl minds even more than rl …nuff said lol.

    Peace.
35. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @Paul,
    (I also have a comment waiting moderation. “gasp” they herald must be trying to verify that we are not prokofy or something)
    I went back and re-read your post to @Robble and i agree with you.
    He just happened to be “walking” by one of Prokofy’s parcels. Your telling me that the wrong hands, Woodbury people don’t know where every parcel of Prokofy’s are. They do so they can go intimidate her by doing walk by or just standing out side the parcels. They still pull the same games it seems to me. They just scream a bit louder to hide their actions. Then they talk about it acting like the hurt or injured party. They can do things to enjoy their sl lives with out even going near Prokofy or the JLU they just choose not to.
    Its like when you read the SLU forums all the people that run over to the steam punk sim to walk around JLU’s parcel and touch and investigate every little prim, then everyone jumps up and down that the JLU placed an object in the sims path to force you to walk into the JLU’s parcel so the scan you by the Phantom Zone device. But then someone actually looks at that object and goes oh the sim owner put it that location. Then its like well the Sim owner must be working with the JLU. Now lets look at what happened at the Scifi con this past July the JLU was there but why did the wrong hands go and harass and grief other sim groups for no other reason but to be jerks.
    A couple sims I rp in were victims of the wrong hands people messing up there booths, by placing x-rated images on them. But the wrong hands but it all happened after the confrontation with the JLU in the sim. So I don’t see Woodbury or Wrong Hands having changed. When they feel they get slighted they will grief. In my opinion they just have forced other groups to go to the JLU.
    I am sure the JLU has stuff on the wiki from that time period it will be intresting to see if Fred leaks that stuff. I bet he won’t because it does make the wrong hands look bad in it as well.
    One thing Fred on the SLU forums has said that the Prokofy haters and JLU haters don’t get is. leave them alone stop trying to provoke them. don’t grief them. How many times have i read on the SLU forums that the JLU radio station website is getting a Denial of Service attack and Fred yells stop it.

    @Bunjie
    I agree with you about the thick skin, and the over reacting. I do believe that goes both ways as well. I think the Wrong Hands do over react as well. They all say these people are just writing their fiction and yet they continue to want to deal with them and talk about them.
    I am not sure how something on a blog or forum would hurt my Second Life. So Joshua rants and goes off on his drama on the SLU forums he is only dragging people who are on those forums that desire to listen to him.
    I am sure you can see how Kalel and Prokofy can be overly paranoid. I wouldn’t blame them for being so. Since it does seem to me in reading the people who have griefed them in the past keep continuing the griefing in small ways. Again if you want to show you are no longer that old griefer then don’t talk or go near these people. Go rent a sim off mainland, where you can enjoy your second life. I don’t build in sandboxes I hardly go to mainland sims. I don’t rent from Prokofy these people can do the same thing.
    They can also find sandboxes where the JLU doesn’t patrol. I have not seen anyone give an accurate number of how many people are actually documented in the JLU wiki but right now I see we have 35,724 people on line. I haven’t looked at how many actual residents Second Life has. It would be interesting to see the actual percentage of people tracked on the wiki. Then you can get a more accurate number of how much they actually affect residents.
    I do agree they shouldn’t be doing this kind of documenting or rl stalking. Yet in the slu forums and other forums of the past, many people do it. It seems to depend on what side your on if its wrong or right.
    I am not sure what Linden Labs can do about forums and blogs outside of their control.
    I get what your saying Bunjie but will this independent party be looking at forums and blogs. Will they take in account that someone is getting in a forum debate outside of sl?

    @Gundel Gaukelei
    “This also works the other way around and makes Prok look like a walking honey pot.”
    So are you saying she is just to much of an easy target for these people to not discuss or grief?
    When I think of someone as a honey pot I think of Winnie the Pooh not resisting the urge to dip his paw into it.
36. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @James Doe
    “One thing Fred on the SLU forums has said that the Prokofy haters and JLU haters don’t get is. leave them alone stop trying to provoke them. don’t grief them.”

    Agreed. However can you explain that to Prok? Because just this morning I woke up to this on Twitter.

    Prokofy Prokofy Neva
    @SenbanBabii What Should One Call That Which Has No Life? Senban Baaaaaaabiiiiiii….

    So she continues to harass me, purely because I ask questions and express opinions that expose her flawed arguments.

    Now okay, the argument could go that I should just ignore them. But why should I? The whole point of web2.0 sites like Twitter is to generate dialogue and interactivity. So Prok makes a statement, I add something of my own, question her logic, ask for evidence and so on. The web is interactive and that includes SL. We have a right to express our opinions and to question the opinions and actions of others. Web1.0 was static and one-way, like a book or newspaper but also like someone ranting with their fingers in their ears so as to avoid hearing dissenting opinions. Web2.0 is interactive and invites dialogue. If Prok doesn’t want dialogue she should not invite it by participating in places where dialogue is expected i.e. Twitter, SL profiles, forums, blogs and so on. The problem is that she wants web1.0 one-to-many broadcasting but in a web2.0 environment. She is only interested in her own opinions and when they are shown to be flawed as they almost invariably are, she goes on the offensive, claiming she’s being oppressed by a technological elite and so on ad vomitum.

    Now for example, let’s look at something. Ravenglass. I don’t believe I’ve ever been there but apparently Prok has chosen to opt for virtually no security or other controls. This is down to her personal ideology. It’s how she wishes the world was perhaps and I can appreciate that. But the problem is, she’s doing so in an environment where she then provokes people who will come and troll her sims. But it’s like me leaving my front door wide open while I go out to work and expecting all my shiny things to still be there when I get home. The world is full of foxes, as I stated in my recent op/ed. Prok chooses to wish the foxes would leave her alone but not only does she not protect herself, she actively seeks to provoke the foxes. The problem is she lives in a dream world. If she wants to create some kind of idyllic fantasy world that operates only according to her ideology she can do that (web1.0 again) but she’s choosing to do it in an interactive web2.0 environment yet demanding everyone think according to her ideology.
37. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @JamesDoe

    You cannot really -avoid- the JLU since they love to linger around public areas such as hubs and sandboxes. So a person is bound to bump into them and get scanned into their little pow-pow wiki of data-mining. Not only that but this is the type of group who loooooooves to stir up drama on everyone. Even if you ignore them, they will not ignore you. They will get into your business every-angle they can and they are associated with groups/individuals just as vain as themselves. It does not take much, as the first initial has been started!

    Not only is a individual simply outnumbered, but now you have a group calling themselves bullying and intimidating other groups/people to the point of obsession! “Provoking Them”? Who do they think they -are- to began with? A made up fake cop force, that is what.

    Would you in RL walk up to a stranger(or with their friends) and say “Don’t do this, and don’t do that?” They would more than likely tell you to kindly “Screw off!” JLU also drag in people that aren’t mischievous too and accuse them of being so as well simply because of their friends or they happened to be having a little bit of fun instead of the usual mundane way of things.

    Would you take pictures of this person and obsess over every detail of this individual? What you can find? Because this is what the JLU clearly does. It’s called stalking, even if the morons hide behind avatars, it is what it is. They love riding off the dingbat pisses and moaners in SL that have knee-jerk reactions to everything that happens to them in virtual space. They call furries drama yet have furries in their group. LOL

    Do they think everyone to be stupid (apparently)? They are liars, no more than ignorant hussies running about with self-importance on SL grid and bluntly ignoring real-life laws in the process. Ever heard the song “Smiling Faces” by The Undisputed Truth? Those lyrics are most realistic!

    Also, Proky has an attitude which wouldn’t consider “friendly”. Since when has proky ever been “friendly?” What has proky done for the so-said ‘community’? I’ve looked at her blogs and so much its more about her ranting about herself and obsessing over the same stuff over, and over, and over. Once in awhile she may have an interesting point but then it melts back down into gobble-gook again. She spams forums too like a mad hermit.
38. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    It’s a social disaster of the 1800′s. These self-proclaim “dukes and queens” of SL have made the platform very unsavory for others! It’s all about who has the most puff in their feathers, and it provides a horrible environment for both new-comers and current users a-like.

    You say DoS on JLU website? Can you show proof that has happened? Keep in mind the JLU -are- exposed to the internet, so who may or may not come into contact with them is unknown. It does not necessary have to be people from SL! Fred or anyone else cannot control that.

    The JLU act like they are cops from jumping on script-kiddies, but as for -real- hackers and groups? This is what they continuously savor and obsess over in SL. Suddenly fake superman thinks he can take on organized crime. What a laugh! They constantly mix people up in their bloated wiki, now they can take on groups who are experts? Why do you think countries have the REAL PD and Military for? And it’s much more serious than a box spinning about in virtual space.
39. 

    SweetAlabama
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @James Doe & Paul
    “He just happened to be “walking” by one of Prokofy’s parcels. Your telling me that the wrong hands, Woodbury people don’t know where every parcel of Prokofy’s are”

    Yes, for example my partner just realized a sim which he had interest in buying a parcel in (because he liked the name of the sim), was right next to Ravenglass. He was in the for-mentioned sim and had not realized till he though to look what was around it. He was disappointed that he’d be in proximity to Prok. Even though he doesn’t dislike her and even agrees with 10% of what she says she is so disagreeable and considers him a griefer for disagreeing with her, along with some other banter, that he thought best not to antagonize her, which would also spoil his enjoyment of the sim.

    You see her because she is so paranoid, others are often forced to walk eggshells around her. She owns enough mainland in central locations that one is bound to run into her properties. In SL and out she can not be totally avoided. She does on occasion even go to places and properties of those she dislikes. Those who refuse to walk eggshells around her incur her ‘wrath’ and are labeled griefers eventually.

    Yes some do intentionally go near her and from the looks of most it is an attempt to communicate with her or in protest of her.

    Not all these are people who have or are doing anything wrong though that seems immaterial considering she considers anyone trespassing or displaying ‘symbols’ (this could be a pony affiliation, a top hat, a mustache, afro, ect) to be some person in the past that has griefed her or she considers to have griefed her (Even if that person was a innocent bystander at the time she was being ‘griefed’).

    Yes she has been genially briefed. However her blogging goes beyond simple reporting of events. The vitriol and long drawn out both n the length of her post and the constant harping gives truly greifing and trolling individuals fuel and others that do not deserve it a reason to try to defend themselves. Prok never forgives or admits when she is wrong even when evidence is put before her.

    I can not personally take her word for it when she accuses ‘current’ greifers of being who she thinks they are an alt of. I also do not believe that the people, includng the TWH group members are currently orfor the past few weeks bothering her, even if Fred believes that it may be. Whoever was bothering her at that time doesn’t care about what it looks like anyways.As too often the case, considering she has hundreds of people who do not like her if not thousands, this person has some personal vadeta against her which is out of our control. Many have advised her how to handle these situations and she has refused to even try changing for the sake of at least mitigating results. Most people don’t whip an issue on public blogs, especially to the extent she does. That is what makes her such a big target. Its hard to miss a big target either way. It’s a huge face-palm when she does get attacked because 1) she often accuses people not involved which causes then to get involved 2) the way she handles it causes further attacks 3) more people get involved either trying to talk sense into her or defending falsely accused 4) the griefer responsible gets what he/she wants and continues to see how big of a frenzy Prok will get to to till the griefer gets bored. If she would make a simple mention of the incident and move on we’d all get some relief, even her if she would keep it that way. Treating issues like Drama create Drama.

    I am not defending griefers or former griefers past actions but she could both handle current situations better and at least consider that people reform and deserve 2nd chances. She’s been given many herself but continues to tread on offered hands.
40. 

    hobo kelly
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    Occupy Ravenglass
41. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @Sweet

    Why does anyone have to kiss prok’s butt? Having a plot of land near her stuff is like living in a deserted shelter. How people occupy space with prok is unknown unless they are like prok themselves, or rarely come on their on land.

    @Hobo

    Sounds like good idea, but money wasted
42. 

    hobo kelly
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    There is a Linden road that runs through that Ravenglass sim. I wonder how many heavily scripted avs it would take standing there occupying a bit of that road to make some kind of impact on sim performance. Once something like that caught on… well you never know… Or if the avs were sitting in a vehicle on that road and suddenly there was a traffic jam that backed things up for miles, bumper to bumper, everybody gettting hot and irritated, the smog getting thicker, horns honking, small arms coming out…
43. 

    IntLibber Brautigan
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    Sweet Alabama has it pretty accurate. I myself had never been to any of prok’s properties or even known about her blog when she showed up in my sims on her “Random Unsung” alt (which is now permbanned by LL for griefing, btw) complaining that her main Prokofy account was banned in my sims. Apparently Prok had shown up a few days earlier and overheard me talking with some friends from the Free State Project, and she started calling me a “libertarian fascist nazi”, so as the sim owner, I banned her as a griefer, given her obnoxious behavior.
    So there she was on an alt asking to be unbanned, trying her very best to be polite while still writing (this was pre-voice) with a rather snide undercurrent. I said, what the hell, just dont be rude to people anymore, and I unbanned her main account.
    So, my first ever encounter with her was an act of her griefing me, yet ever since then, she’s defamed me in her blogs as if I’ve been incessantly griefing her, and enabling others to grief her, even tho the record clearly shows that after I unbanned her, I barely spoke to her much for many months after that other than to notify her of new PN alts to watch out for. Yes, you heard it: I was helping her combat griefing. I even sent my staff members to track PN griefers and frequently followed them to Prok’s sims in order to abuse report their griefing there. Jim Schack, aka Charity Stohr, was the most involved in this, yet to this day Prok continues to attack Jim in her blog and claim he was a griefer. At this point, it is totally understandable why Jim is disgusted with this woman and if he griefs her at all today, it is totally due to her own slanderous defamation and harassment.
    FWIW, I have never “griefed” Prokofy myself. When she has announced her faux “public meetings” at the Sutherland Dam to discuss issues of community concern, I’ve attended, and I have, like any free citizen, spoken my opinion politely, usually disagreeing with the sort of fascist ideas that prokofy espouses. And let me be clear: Prokofy IS a fascist, and her rhetoric is classic fascist strategy:
    a) instigate trouble, insult lots of people, and attract opponents
    b) portray oneself as the victim after attracting pushback from her own harassment
    c) loudly and repeatedly demand the killing/elimination/banning of the scapegoated group of “oppressors”.
    This recipe was true in 1930′s germany, in the KKK and the italian fascist party, as well as in the soviet union that prok likes to compare her enemies to so frequently.
44. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @IntLibber Brautigan , SweetAlabama

    Thank you for the write ups.
    I will say for everyone like you who didn’t physically grief Prokofy and had runs in with him, their are three people like hobo kelly who want to purposely go and provoke people by trying to do things to
    to torment a person they don’t like. Sorry I think she has a right to be paranoid of people, just like Kalel of the JLU does. They have been threatened irl by griefers. Woodbury knocked on his door. Joshua sent Prokofy a picture of her door saying it was from someone else but many people know that is just Joshua’s typical m.o.
    You people who keep tormenting add to their paranoia and make it worse. So do not forget you made these people who they are.

    I am still waiting for someone to give us an accurate number of residents the JLU has actually tracked and have documents on. Most of the logs I have seen they talk about the same people over and over again. They are just as much a broken record as Prokofy and Tux and wrong hands.

    I really don’t see the big deal with her writing what ever she wants. We don’t have to read it. If she tomorrow writes about James Doe is the biggest looser and griefer in SL and the internet. That’s her choice. I can respond and add to her belief that I am. Or I can ignore her and let her continue to talk about me. Its not affecting my real life or my second life.
    How many in the 61,000 players on line know who Prokofy is or their history.
    How many people in that 61,000 know who the JLU are in second life.
    You can enjoy your second life with out ever touching a linden main land and bumping into any of these people. Even if I went to main land if I am just passing thru and minding my own business I doubt they would even notice me.

    Many people enjoy watching Prokofy go on her rants in her blogs so they can just call her crazy person, they even goad her into doing it and writing more.

    @GG3
    Of course the JLU mix people up, but so do all the lovely people on the SLU forums who call alt looking and playing online detectives.
    I sat their and read all those post with the Joshua Nightshade forum and watch the people search all over for ~clb~ and ~cm~ I still laugh at how that whole forum is exactly what the JLU does but when anyone would jump in and tell them. Queen Joshua will get all upset. But I don’t see any of these people who are against the JLU actions in that thread talking about what wrong is being done in that thread. Bunjie if I read correctly was like one of the only ones that did.

    Well thank you for the discussions people, was very nice discussion from both sides of the fence i think..
    Thank you
    SweetAlabama, Senban Babii, Paul, Reader, GG3
45. 

    Senban Babii
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    @James Doe

    Just a quick thought.

    “I still laugh at how that whole forum is exactly what the JLU does but when anyone would jump in and tell them.”

    This isn’t true. The SLU forum is an opt-in process. If I don’t post on SLU, it doesn’t affect me one way or the other. However the JLU and their activities are not opt-in or even opt-out, they are forced upon you and indeed every resident with no transparency and no form of appeal. In fact in my case alone they acknowledge my membership of the JLU Wiki Opt-Out group in my entry in the wiki! What does that tell you?

    “How many in the 61,000 players on line know who Prokofy is or their history.”

    Interesting point. Probably a lot more than you realise. I asked around in my office relatively recently and at least one person had heard of Prokofy Neva and they have no involvement in SL at all. Bear in mind that Prok is something of a public figure and has been mentioned in books, radio shows and I believe a magazine interview. So to describe her as a single voice is not accurate. She is highly vocal and a known person and if she attacks me she can damn well expect an attack back.

    She frequently attacks people’s reputations, would you agree? In a social environment, a person’s reputation is a key element of their social currency so to speak. So if she attacks my reputation, should I just sit back and let her? Or should I comment back, demanding an apology and retraction? Because that’s the thing when you get right down to it. She thinks she has the right to spout whatever bile she wants about a person, to make whatever accusations she likes and all without any form of accountability. Well she has freedom of speech, she needs to learn that freedom of speech comes packaged with freedom of response. That’s why here in outworld, we have laws against defamation, slander and so on. Because words have power and consequence. In Prok’s case, she reaps exactly what she sows.

    “So do not forget you made these people who they are.”

    Simply not true. We are all the product of our own choices. Prok chooses to be who she is and always has done. Perhaps far more than people realise.
46. 

    IntLibber Brautigan
    

    Oct 22nd, 2011
    

    Senban has it right, James, defamation is Prokofy’s stock in trade, and, fwiw, defamation of people or groups IS against the TOS, yet Prokofy has never been called to account for it by LL, nor has JLU. LL has a pretty hypocritical policy on this: unless you are defaming jews, muslims, or other victimized ethnic groups, anything you say about anybody ISNT defamation unless you belong to a group that LL wants to stamp out (like woodbury) even if you’ve never violated the TOS any other way. Its one of those rules they only enforce when they are out to get someone. If LL was more rigorous about enforcing defamation, there would be a lot less drama and griefing going on.
47. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 23rd, 2011
    

    @ Senban Babii

    “This isn’t true. The SLU forum is an opt-in process. If I don’t post on SLU, it doesn’t affect me one way or the other. However the JLU and their activities are not opt-in or even opt-out, they are forced upon you and indeed every resident with no transparency and no form of appeal. In fact in my case alone they acknowledge my membership of the JLU Wiki Opt-Out group in my entry in the wiki! What does that tell you?”

    You are wrong with the SLU forums, the owner allowed Joshua and others to post the exact same kind of information the JLU collects. Even when it is a violation against SLU own TOS. why is that?
    “Oh cause Joshua is his buddy” and has been since 2004 if not longer. Everyone who has been around SL for as many years as Joshua and Prokofy all know this. So until the members who complain about the JLU start acting better than them. Linden Labs will do nothing. Why would they when they see the people complaining doing exactly the same thing that the people they complain about. No point in them trying. Look at the woodbury griefers who keep coming in after being banned.

    I have asked people in my office as well, no one has heard of Prokofy Neva. Most only know Second life is some kinda of game.
    It is subjective to what our business are and our life styles.
    So My and your quick poll doesn’t mean anything.

    JD
48. 

    James Doe
    

    Oct 23rd, 2011
    

    @ IntLibber Brautigan
    “defamation is Prokofy’s stock in trade, and, fwiw, defamation of people or groups IS against the TOS”

    Linden Labs does not control Outside blogs.
    This is why you can post chats or have a wiki or have forums to talk about Second life. If Prokofy does it in world then you should AR them, but don’t forget many people defame Prokofy as well.
    You all seem to think its a one way street, it takes two people to do these things.

    JD
49. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 23rd, 2011
    

    I love the name James Doe, btw.

    @James
    There’s many, plenty of user names and information in those wikis. Fact is that they never asked to be in them in the first place, nor did they ask to be placed in a group with low-level snooping disorders. To para-phase, bob doe or sue doe shouldn’t have access to hundreds and hundreds of avatar information(including personal).

    Let’s draw in some common sense here:

    Number 1) It’s dangerous

    Number 2) Other than kalel totting about as superman we have no REAL clue who and what is in-contact- with that information(other than his waste-of-time ‘file-ups’.) You do know that people have put others in that wiki for stupid reasons simply because of butt-hurt, yes? There’s all sorts of weirdo’s and freaks on the net, do you think SL is suddenly excluded from those types? It simply makes it easier for them. Given the very nature of SL and its history, it is cause for legitimate concern, even more so that SL has kids on the grid. There is something WRONG here if someone not initially from SL has to point this out!

    @IntLibber

    Drama will occur because it is apart of human nature. People will be people, even if they use avatars for whatever reasons they may do so. I do see your point, however when grown adults simply do not know when to stop and things get out of hands so easily over avatars. The game is living them, they are not ~playing~ the “game”.

    @James
    “Linden Lab will do nothing”
    That’s often the case, sadly with this company for a number of things I won’t bother listing now.

    I do not understand how this Joshua person suddenly ties into this, seeing from those forums he has his own situations?

    “Why would they when they see the people complaining doing exactly the same thing that the people they complain about. No point in them trying.”

    Are those people who have been affected, and those who have not been -directly-(per-say) affected suddenly not able to discuss this current issue? So if changes were, as example, made that affect you, are you not able to discuss those changes?

    “Look at the woodbury griefers who keep coming in after being banned.”

    Prok has been banned before. Yet she is still here? Does this suddenly make her woodburry too? Lol!
50. 

    GG3
    

    Oct 23rd, 2011
    

    @James

    Forget to mention how unstable that wiki is hosting personal information(RL name, pictures, addresses, phone-numbers), and the lack of license to hold such information to began with that has been leaked, twice already. It is actively being used to cause impact on one’s experience in SL similar to what I would consider “blacklisting”. People are being mindlessly harvest without a word, knowledge, or say in it, and suddenly it is good because superman flies around in pixel skies?

    Was not the bot devices by the JLU removed not long ago by LL? those bots that were used to create data-base entries in the wiki? So yes, there has been violation -inside- SL itself.

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